Benzos. . .Need Serious Advice. . .Don't Want to go from One Addiction. . .

Question

To Another. . .


Good Morning to All!



I

JSmith02 · Answer

They say that the Goddess endows bellydancing psychotherapists with the power to heal the benzo addicted. Any truth to that?

Thomas

Aleph · Answer

I've been using heroin for the past 8 years, from 17 to 25.  Just recently--two weeks ago--I enrolled in a methadone maintenance program.

I'm still chipping but my use has dropped from 40 bags a week to 4.  Next week I'm going to try to shoot for zero.  As we all know, methadone is equally as addictive--if not more--as heroin.  This fact alone begs a certain question:

Which is more important, addiction or efficacy.  And it's a no-brainer.  The answer is efficacy.

Heroin--mostly due to its high cost and illegality--is a nasty, evil drug.  Once it's got you, it's got you and for most people it never, ever lets go.  Even if you haven't used for years.

I am now addicted to methadone.  I spend $12 a week on that habit instead of $400 a week on H.  My clinic provides counselling, psychiatric care, and medical assistance.  It is a godsend.

Yes, methodone is addictive, but it is also highly effective.  It is the efficacy of MMTPs that allow them to be astonishingly successful.  The fact that methadone is an addictive substance is trivial when juxtaposed with the improvement it can make in an addict's quality of life.

The same principle applies to benzodiazapines.  Yes, they are addictive.  However, if they provide a level of improvment in the quality of life to the person taking them, their addictive potential is irrelavent.  The ends justify the means.

Remember:  Peoples addicted to opiates have psychological problems that predispose them to addiction.  Anxiety and depression seem to be leaders.  If you find that you need benzos to function without heroin, then by all means, use them. Proper medication without feelings of guilt or fear of legal retribution is an unalienable right: life, liberty, the persuit happieness.

Please, when seeking help, have such a conversation with your doctor.  If he refuses to administer a benzo even after such a discussion, find another doctor.  Specifically, a doctor that is devoted to your sustained recover rather than afraid of the dea.                                                                                                                              Aleph

earlygrayce · Answer

hello. can't you taper the xanax by itself instead of with valium? or do you not have enough xanax to taper. i tapered vicodin down from 15-20 pills a day to none in about a week to ten days (w/o benzos). i know benzo tapering is probably a little different, but i think it is a pretty bad idea to switch from one pill to another in tapering. although i realize xanax's half-life is short (making it more addictive), so maybe just using that isn't a great idea. and i do understand that benzo addiction MUST be tapered, as not doing so can be life-threatening. i have just never thought using one pill to replace another, even in tapering, was a great idea. you seem to be honest and aware so i hope these choices work out for you. 

when withdrawing from opiates on this board, the first thing many people say is to get as many xanax, valium, or klonopin you can. that comment is incredibly out of line. we are all recovering addicts here and the last thing any of us need is to go from one pill to the next. however, and i realize this contradicts everything i just said, but if your post acute withdrawal symptoms include restless leg (which i had a severe case of for many months after my vicodin detox), the sleeping aid ambien can work wonders. it did not get me high (was not addictive) and it really cured my rls for the first few months. i still felt like **** during the day, but at least i got some sleep at night. now i no longer use the ambien because the rls symptoms seem to have gone away. 

please everyone, you are not treating your addiction - you are not recovering - with benzos. they were meant for anxiety, panic and seizure disorders. while they might make opiate withdrawlal less painfull and more comfortable, they should not be considered a regular way out of addiction. they usually only cause more problems. good luck to everyone.

Chezz · Answer

I couldn't agree more. I think you should use the benzo's for about the 1st 10 days depending on your previous opiate usage. 
Some can stop the benzo's after the 1st 5 days. 
Personally I would not take them for more than 2 weeks. I would also watch your dosing. Taking two 10mg tabs 4 times aday will get you addicted alot quicker than taking the minimal amount to just keep you comfortable. 

The idea here is to get off opiates. So the whole idea is to use the minimal amount, so you don't get "high" and then crave this new med. 

Just my humble opinion,
Chezz

Chezz · Answer

Jenn,


Glad to see you got alot of info on your med situation. 

I just wanted to pass along my humble opinion which worked for me, with very, very little withdrawl. The pain was what got worse for me. 

The L-Tyro, multivitamin, valium 3x5mg aday. I was also using more than you b4 I stopped. I was totally comfortable for the 4 days I went through.
I hope it works good for you.  

Good luck, 
Chezz

itsadogslife · Answer

I am tapering with valium from an addiction to Xanax.  I belong to a benzo board and someone posted that Xanax is the most addictive benzo because it has antidepressant effects along with it's anti-anxiety action.  It is probably the only benzo that actually gives you a buzz.

I wouldn't touch it again with a 10 foot pole. It is very easy to get addicted to. I was hooked in two weeks.

I agree with whoever posted that your doctor was irresponsible in prescribing it for opiate wd.  There are people who do have to take it due to anxiety disorders because it is very effective for those but there are lots of other safer choices for getting off narcotics.

Paige · Answer

Synderella,
Just watch out for the XANAX....it actually got me good at one time.  When I was in rehap, I was withdrawing very badly from XANAX.  I am a drug addict.  I get addicted to most anything.  This Withdrawal was the only one I just could not do myself.  I had two kids at the time and was clean for a while, the doctor gave me the XANAX to calm me down, the babies were colic and I had a little post-partum. He said it is mild.  It didn't take me long and I wanted it, more and more, I don't know why this partiucular one, but in Rehab, no lie, we had a XANAX only detox group on Saturday night.  Apparently I was not alone. I was very humiliated though, mother of two sitting in a drug rehap.  Well, I guess it wasn't humilation enough,  I am back in the mess again, crazy as it sounds, I have four kids now, never used when carring them.  But I am really hooked on Darvon.  What a stupid thing.  I don't know too many Darvan addicts, but I am trying to taper off, I have to. As for tapering, it is damn near impossibe at times but doable. I just can not seem to beat this one. Read some of the post about the Thomas receipe thing. I have not tried it buy some people seem to believe in it. I am curently using Ambien for the restless legs and to sleep, Librax (docs perscribe it for spastic colon or irretible bowl synbrome, tell them you used it before and it is the only thing that works for you, they will usually just prescribe it), the Librax has an anti-spasematic in it for your stomach cramps as well as librium which detox centers all use. I wouldn't go cold turkey. Just my opinion, I'm not a doctor, just a drug addict, trying yet once again to get it together. I am a good mom and I want to do right by my these kids.

Good Luck and take care! Watch that XANAX, and just writing about it makes me want the damn stuff, what is wrong with me?
Paige

Synderella · Answer

Earlygrayce,


I commend you for you post!  Very eloquently and honestly, put.  I agree with you 100%, I got myself into this opiate dependence, and I shouldn

samar · Answer

Oh ****.  You are so right.  It is scary as hell.  I have been putting it off for years and I need to do it NOW.  I have been on Vicodin or Tylenol w/C for something like 5 years.  I started posting a month or so ago.  I keep thinking I will REALLY stop in a coupla weeks, next week, tomorrow......then tomorrow comes and I think well, actually next week would be better.  My friend kids me with, "oh the sun is shining today, tomorrow would be a better day to stop".  He is kidding but actually as funny as he is it is not very funny.  I NEED TO STOP NOW.  My problem is I have hit no bottom, still have $ in the bank to buy it on the street or in Mexico, why stop now?  My liver must be totally shot, I have been incredibly unproductive in the last year especially, I have young children who need me and soon I will need to be WAY more productive then I have been (alimony ending).  I AM ALONE and I am addicted.  It SUCKS!!

earlygrayce · Answer

thank you very much jennyfer. we all struggle with an addiction of one kind or another and simply put: it sucks. 

if people on this board are scared of withdrawal, they have no idea how much more difficult sobriety is for an addict. 

that is scary.

earlygrayce · Answer

i'm sorry, but the idea of a physician prescribing xanex as a way to help a drug addict taper his/or her medication is completley irresponsible. xanex is just as addicitve as opiates and can be even more hell to withdraw from. there are other benzos out there that also can be abused, but have a far less chance of addiction if taken properly (i.e. longer half life), and can help even the most serious drug addict with withdrawal symptoms. I know everyone is different, but many people have to realize that withdrawals ARE NOT COMFORTABLE. and they shouldn't be. while no one should go thrugh hell, most people need to realize that a succesive tapering, followed by a few benzos to ease withdrawal discomforts and maybe a sleeping aid for sleep should be all that is needed. and even with that, most addicts will still feel like **** for a few days. again, i realize there are exceptions, but in reading this board it seems as though many people think they deserve a completely painless and comfortable exit from these medications that they (including my self) have abused for so long with out really caring. i have been clean quite a while (5months) and withdrawal sucked. i tapered, used a sleeping aid and sucked it up. for those hooked on morphine, patches, fentanyl, high doses of oxycontin or any other hardcore opiates, tapering to a less powerful drug like vicodin might be an answer before full detox is tried. 

i just think many on this board are forgetting that withdrawl is NOT EASY or PAINLESS, nor is it supposed to be. xanex and some of thes other drugs were not made for these reasons. i am not expecting every persons' withdrawl to go like mine, however, I AM VERY WORRIED that many out there think they have to have some of these meds so their pain can stop. overcoming drug addiction is not that easy and neither is life. 

i don't mean any offense by this post, it is just the way i feel. i hope everyone stays strong and clean. good luck.

AlexisInTx · Answer

This is my personal opinion, but I would take a muscle relaxer that is non-habit forming in place of a benzodiazapine.  There are certain muscle relaxers such as Flexeril and Soma that you can take and get a good night's sleep from when going through opiate withdrawals.  I had such a horrific time after quitting Xanax (I took it for 3 months), that I absolutely cannot believe that these drugs are even prescribed -- again, my personal opinion but one I feel very strongly about.  

I have to wonder if you do take a benzo for 2 weeks maximum, how your sleep will be affected after you stop.  I understand that there are others who have used Valium, Ativan, Klonopin, Xanax, etc. for a short period of time during w/d's and it helped to take the edge off of the worst symptoms, but your body has then become accustomed to a medicinal sleep, and it would take awhile to get back to normal.  

I would look into other alternatives, although I know others here have a totally different outlook when discussing the usage of benzos for a very short period of time and only to stave off the worst of the opiate withdrawal.  I can only speak from personal experience, but I do think that there are other viable alternatives out there to help.  But my opinion may be colored by the months in hell I spent during Xanax withdrawals.

Whisky · Answer

G My physician prescribed me Xanax, Phenobarbital, and Clonodine to help me throughout the W/D process during my vacation.

"Sounds like a reasonable plan"; most places give this during the period of detox - for a short time....in my case, I've had the clonidine patch for 2 weeks, I take Klonopin anyway for years (same category as Xanax); not usually not phenobarbital at the same time as the clonidine unless you have a drinking AND drug problem.


(1) What is the longest time frame I can take these pills and not have to worry about W/D and addiction

If I were you, I'd just worry about the addiction and the things that are helping you through it.  I've been taking klonopin for 8 years (1mg) at night; for general anxiety.  I'm dependent on them, but not addicted (there's a difference).  If I decided to cut down my Dr. would help me wean very slowly.  I may never stop because they've helped alot.  But if you just take xanas for a short time to help you get over w/d ... you won't become addicted to them for a period of 5 days......

(2) If I use the benzos to help with the opiate W/D, will I have to taper, or worse yet use something else, to get off the benzos?

No, not if you use them for such a short time; but it's always wise to wean off of any drug regardless of time used & doseage.  Throw them away when you feel you no longer need them for help with withdrawal - say by day 10.  And yes, you can have seizures from benzo w/d; that's when you're not doing it medicall or in the right way under the supervision of a Dr.


I am really paranoid about using either of these meds, after reading the archives and other peoples horror stories! Any advice would, as always, be greatly appreciated!

As I said, don't fred about having difficult coming off the benzos when it's time...right now you need to cope with w/d from opiates and most inpatient/outpatient places give that...you'll be fine with the benzos for a little while

Liza

bmac · Answer

Yes the phenobarb will help.It has the calming effect on you.
It's a barbituate for God sake.It made me numb alittle,which
is good.Valium will help also.Can you get any clonidine.
Get the pills if you can,they're much much cheaper than the patches.It will really help really help.As far as me making it,
I had no choice.Period.That's why I think I really did it because I had no choice.Family,home, my children all would
have been lost.But hey we all have baggage now don't we?
Keep trying to get help.There are doctors out there that know what to do about withdrawals.Meds will help but not with the mindgame stuff.You will have to find something else to help you heal.Once again I say the only way to beat this addiction we all have is to not put opiates into our mouths or veins.Period.
The only way to get over withdrawing is to stop the cycle of abuse.OK enough standing on a soapbox.29 days and no cravings at all.THE RECIPE,THE RECIPE!!!!!!!!!!! peace,
                                       bmac

Chezz · Answer

I am currently taking 2-5mg a day of valium. That is all prescription wise. 
Will the phenobarb help?
I still am having a little trouble with the w/ds

Glad to see you at 29. Soon it will be months..years...

Chezz

bmac · Answer

Phenobarb helps with the shakes and the brain fog.Clonidine 
helped with the higher bloodpressure we put ourselves thru going nuts with the withdrawals.I think some docs use valium and those type meds.The detox centers here in Birmingham just use phenobarb.I took it for 8 days.It really helped.I wish I could 
give the rest to someone here that needs it.
I would have never made it tapering myself.I had to find help.
I was just lucky I found a doctor that knows withdrawals and
detox.29 days clean.Being 'straight isn't so bad!Getting that way was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.
             Bill(bmac)

Chezz · Answer

Glad to hear that you are still sober and movin' on. 
I was wondering though. What did the phenobarb help with?
I am concidering asking my Doc if that would be helpful as well. I just don't seem to get a very quick answer. They are always toooo busy. 

Thanks,
Chezz

bmac · Answer

That is a **** load of drugs.I got 30 phenobarb and 30 clonidine.
He also gave me 10-10mg valiums which I didn't use.
That was enough for 15 days.Don't rely on another drug to make you feel right again,it won't happen.You have to get all
these drugs out of your systems to get better,until then you
are just putting off the the mindgames all of us have been thru.
Use the drugs to get thru the physical part,it won't help the mental part.That's called being straight.It is a ***** and it will hurt but you can't just stop and nothing happen,it will.
But it does get better.I promise.
                                bmac

Chezz · Answer

I personally am on this boat your are talking about right now. Its just a little different. 

I have 24 5mg valium, and 16 15mg restoril. Both are benzodiazepines. Valium is long acting, with the longest halflife. Stays in your system longer.

So far I have been having a fairly easy withdrawl period compared to some of my last experiences. This is due to the "recipe", mainly the L-Tyrosine and B6. The Valium takes the edge off, which is good. 

My personal take is that we are addicts here! 
Your doc has prescribed you 180 Zanax, and 120 phenobarbitol. That sure does sound like a **** load of meds to "taper" down and be opiate free. It looks more like you will get accustommed to the zanax and want more. 

I personally will not risk my sobriety by having that many pills to help me get off of one med. 
Yes you will need them and they will help. But we are addicts trying to get into recovery. Yet docs prescribed a ton of **** (again) and we are back in their office in 2 weeks with a new addiction. 

I will be taking the meds that I currently have and when they are finished. Then I can move on. And by that I mean I will finally be "clean". No more prescription meds for this, or for that. 
As an addict, we will always have to watch out for signs that we see that could possibly get us back on down that road. 
The "sign" I see for you, is that you already know you have a shitload of meds available. Now you are just hoping you won.t have the same problems with these meds as we all have with opiates. 

This is just my opinion. Everyperson is different. I personally will tell you that when I got the valium, I have made sure to stick to the directions exactly. When I am finished with the 30 total that I have, I will be moving forward in my life. Not addicted again.

This is my personal feeling. I think doctors WAY overprescribe ****. It is amazing to here some of the stories of people getting oxycontin for a toothache. 

Jenn, 
Personally I feel you know that is a **** load of meds to have around. That is enough meds for like 3 months probably. 
YOU WILL BE ADDICTED, in my humble opinion, any addict would. 

How are you doing with the taper thing this week. I know it has to be a *****. I just hope you will be comfortable through your withdrawls. And then stop taking the meds after the 1st week, maybe longer. 

Furthermore, I would rather suffer through a little extra withdrawl stuff, then to get hooked on something that I have heard is 10 times harder to quick and the withdrawls are way over the top. 

I won't risk it,
Chezz

LostFree · Answer

I want to comment to you, but privately regarding the potential for addiction on each of these med's I know I just got off of all of them - and I've been off for months.  Email me ***@****

Witchywoman · Answer

I think that taking a benzo everyday for more than 2 weeks can create a physical dependancy, and that withdrawal will be an issue.

It all depends on how each person's sytem handles the meds though.

I just asked the Docs here at the Psychiatry clinic I work at, and all 3 told me that there is a 2 week non dependance window of time with benzos for first time users. 
Those who have been addicted to benzos in the past will get re-addicted faster (just like it take a first time opiate addict a few weeks to get addicted, but a relapsing addict much less time).

So, if I were you I'd use those benzo's only for a week at most, and then every few days if you need them.

Others may have different information, so I'd be interested to hear.

love,
WW

bmac · Answer

Whatever you use to get you thru the withdrawals is reason 
enough not to worry about getting addicted to valium or
something like I did once,Clonipin.If you want to help the physical withdrawing ,you will need them,believe me.
That's why I used phenobarbital and clonidine.Tapering is hard,but it ain't as hard as coldturkey.No matter what you take,you are going to feel the creepies and the brain fog.You know that already though and that's the mindgames.Post on and thanks for the replies.!!!!!!Clonidine is a bloodpressure med.Comes in pills and patches.Pills are cheap,patches aren't.
                                bmac

Sean5110 · Answer

Jenn / Everyone, I 2nd the opening question on this thread which leads me to believe that it's probably a common one: When we get prescribed valium, xanax, whatever to help through the withdrawal process, what is the chance of simply getting hooked again (on something potentially even more debilitating!)?

I am doing 20mg valium / day (10mg 2x per day). I'm planning on doing this for approx. 1 month. Will there be a physical withdrawal at that time, or, is the dosage low enough to rule out PHYSICAL dependency?

Thanks to anyone who knows.

Sean

hellbent · Answer

I would take them as needed for two weeks, then spend a final week dropping off. 2-3 weeks is normally the time frame they would be prescribed. However, there may be cross tolerance issues with opiates that allow you to get hooked quicker. There is also the complication of being an addict, if you are one. 

Benzos can be a godsend for opiate w/d. They can also be a far worse kick. Don't take em' for longer than 2-3 weeks.

Benzos. . .Need Serious Advice. . .Don't Want to go from One Addiction. . .

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