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Bipolar and Opiate Addiction

Is it worth trying meds for bipolar type II after a year clean from methadone addiction? Cognatve/Behavioral Therapy helps me be aware and act accordingly, but the mood swings are still hard to deal with. I have a lot of stress in my life anyway, and am only a year clean. I talked with my wife and she said I was having bipolar episodes during active addiction, though I was not as aware of it. I used to take more on the bad days and would push on through. As a young man, I think I was type I. By controlling my behavior I don't wake up in a 3rd world country like I used to. I withdraw during depression, which makes friendships hard to maintain. I think I always kept my distance to not effect other people. For years, I started blaming everything on drugs. I'm sober and feel real alone sometimes. I'm horrible at small talk and am too intense a lot. I don't know if meds are worth it. I've always been afraid of becoming a zombie. I just got my feelings back, I really don't want to lose that. Does anyone relate to what I'm saying? I actually enjoy the mania, now that I don't do anything crazy anymore. The depression is intense though. I barely hold it together at times. I want to be balanced with my full range of emotions. Is it worth trying meds?
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Avatar universal
Weaver and everyone, I'm sorry i came on strong against bipolar and depression meds.  I sit here this morning obviously have one of my bi-po swings.  I still believe the overall effect of this class of meds has a negative lmpact on physical activies, social involvement, and mental creativity.   I have to base some of my opinion on what my friends, family and customers said to and about me while i was on them.   When i reflect back on the last four years without the meds i see several manic and full blown nut job periods in my life, (ie, my opiate problem on and off for 4 years, 6 months alcaholism, quitting several real jobs and returning to my self employment businesses, many vague memories of conversations i've had with my town folks and here on mh, that people have help me remember or i look at my post history and can hardly believe it was me who wrote it).

I'm still against the meds, BUT I must admit that I am  bi-polar, or manic depressed, or most likely skitzophrenic (which by true deffinition is not near as bad as its hollywood stigma).  Most of the world's greatest artists, musicians, scientist, mathimaticians, and so on were bipolar or skitzo, Van Gogh, Amidaous, Einstien, Tesla the guy who dicovered AC current, also the guy who invented the sewing machine, another great one is Dr. John Nash (there's a movie about Dr John Nash called "A Beautiful Mind" that everybody who has or knows someone with mental issues should watch), even Stephen Fry did a documentary on being 'Bi-Polar,  several of them were locked up after their achievements for being nuts at their time.

I don't have an answer but have spent hundreds of hours for ten years researching these types of mental quirks.  Truely gifted people seem to be out of balance in social and family functioning.  For most of them episodes of abnormal behavior comes and goes, so they have really shined at times, and became reclussive, lethargic or appeared insane at other times.
  
Journaling helps me see my different mes, even my own hand writting varies so much that you won't think the same person wrote them.  I didn't mean to steal your thread, just wanted to comment on all us that selfmedicated to feel normal, and say that Dr prescribed factory manufactured mental health meds have failed me and several other people i've  known.  For many who 'go beserk' when stopping their mental health meds,  it was the meds sedating them, and the severe misfiring that happens because they were on the meds and quit too sudden without tapering or countering.
Helpful - 0
1742220 tn?1331356727
hi weaver, I am diagnosed bipo II and I have been on Lithium for many years.  I am not sure I agree with my diagnosis, although I have always had low-level depression.  I definitely do not have what can be classified as textbook mania, and it is questionable to me if I even have anything that would qualify as true mania.  I do have moodswings, but I believe we all do to some degree.  What you have sounds a lot more intense than what I experience in terms of moodswings.  I don't want to presume any knowledge, but imo you should be very careful what you train your body and brain to expect.  As I have shared with some people already, I had a horrible, horrible time trying to come off Lithium without properly tapering.  As a matter of fact, I have had to stay on it for the time being because of my issues with recovery/relapse.  I am not happy about it.  I want my brain to be free of any artificial chemical influences ... and now I have to wait until the time is right.  My two cents ...
Helpful - 0
4522800 tn?1470325834
Hi, Buddy! I just wanted to tell you that I care and I know you will make the right decision in time.You know the three meds I was on and the different transmitters they messed up. But now all seems to be finally coming around almost 10 months later. I guess the Doc was right when he said it could take a year or two. So my dear friend I sure wish you the best always and forever..
Hugs to you!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
The timing of this post is uncanny to me. I was diagnosed as bipolar while in rehab 8 months ago. I have never agreed with this because I thought it was just drugs causing my mood swings. Eight months sober and I am starting to realize I do have an issue....mood swings and general mood issues. Maybe he was right?  It makes me sad to think he was....it's nothing to be ashamed of but it still is depressing to me to think I have to be on meds just to be a tolerable person.  I'm sorry to make this about me, I didn't mean to, it's just the past month or so it's been something that's really been bothering me....something I've been trying to ignore but I can't any longer....so this is my answer to the original post...definitely try medication for the bi polar issue, if it helps, it's worth it.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Thanks everyone, I knew I'd have to deal with this eventually. Don't worry, it will take another year before I would decide on a med, if ever. I'm real cautious these days. My ride on methadone really rocked my world. I know I'm still healing, I'm just more aware of myself now, and am weighing all the options. I am pretty healthy for the most part. I started organic farming in 1989, the word green was a color. I have fair knowledge of herbs, nutrition, and physiology. I get lots of sun and exercise in fresh mountain air. I drink spring water from my tap, the city doesn't treat it with anything. There really isn't anything more I can do, other than lower my stress load, but I woke up in the bed I made for myself on opiates. When I have a general routine and a safe place to retreat, a house, I can handle my episodes pretty well. It always happens mania that leads to depression. Once I realize my brain has clicked into bipolar mode, I make sure I don't decide anything on my own. That usually prevents the depression from being as bad, not so many consequences. People have been asking me how I ended up in all the places I've gone, well now you know, I'm bipolar. Pretty intense on mania and depression. When I was younger, I would realize I was manic pretty late, like I said, I'd wake up on a plane to Asia, or a bus to Mexico, etc... No sane person would voluntarily give away all their money in India and live with the Orphans, and I'm no Saint. Then the adrenaline and fast thinking slow down, it all becomes overwhelming, and depression rules my universe. I didn't really want to think or talk about any of this until a year clean. Somehow I guess I'm hoping reaching out and talking about it will help in a similar way as it did for my addiction. I don't know if I'll ever take a psych med, but it may be needed. The bipolar thing effects my brain a lot. I will be really smart, like I surprise myself by what I say sometimes. Then I can't even hold a thought or remember what happened 5 minutes ago. I am making changes to improve my living situation, my relationship with my wife and kids is at an all time high, but it scares me to imagine me having an episode like I had in my 20's. I could really mess my kids lives up, fast. I'm probably type 1, I'm just older now. Thanks for sharing, I've seen quit a few bipolar folks come through here, most of us end up addicts also. I can't tell if it's getting better with clean time, or worse. I know this will be as personal of a choice as a person can make, but hearing your stories helps.
Helpful - 0
5621112 tn?1371375561
Hey there,  just wanted to chime in and add my two cents.  I'm Bi-polar II also as we have talked about.  I have been off AD meds while on the methadone.  But I am still taking the seroquil because it keeps the noise in my head down(that's another issue).  But while I was clean/sober for those 8 years, I had to address the bipolar.  I can definitely relate to the things you said.  I have never been really good at keeping friends because I do tend to isolate myself when depressed or too manic, and many people just don't get it.  I could not control my manic or the depression without meds.  I came to a point where I had to accept my mental illness the same way I accepted my addictions. It is part of me, and I need medication to manage the "imbalance of brain chemicals'.  It's not a weakness or a moral issue, it's a disease like any other. I had to convince myself and accept that I NEED meds.  Once I did that, it was easier for me.  Sadly, finding the right medication is very difficult sometimes.  I have been on almost every AD known to man, tricyclics included.  But in the end, it was a combo of SSRI, and a stabilizer and the Seroquel for me. It took a long time to find the right "cocktail" of drugs.  But like anything good, it was worth fighting for.  I was much happier when my manic and depressive was more even.  There is the fact that you do have to live in that "gray area", and I would be lying if I said I didn't miss my manic sometimes.  But as a parent, I can't risk being suicidal, or being out of control and having spending sprees, and being wwwaaaayyyyy too intense for the other moms at school.  So I accepted living in the gray area.  I don't know what else I can add.  You have to find what will work for you. But of what I know of you T, you will persevere and find what is best for you.  We all value YOU and your experience and knowledge soooo much here on MH.  Your help, and encouragement  is invaluable to me.  Wishing you all the best on this next part of your journey!
DD
Helpful - 0
1827057 tn?1397520277
Hey weaver .I don't have any answers but just wanted to give support and let you know that I also have some of these issues that I am dealing with and know that  it is not easy to know what to do and every step seems like it could be the wrong one. I am not bipolar but I do have more of a unipolar loss of interest and apathy along with some of those other depression related type symptoms you were speaking of. I know that it affects my relationships with others but I also spent some years on the psych med merry go round to no avail. I am now just kind of letting it ride and this is not the first time in my life I have had substantial clean time but it is the first time I have had substantial clean time and no psych meds.
   My plan right now is to stay the course and see what happens.  I hope things become clear for you and you decide which course of action best suits you.   Great job on the year my friend !!
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Avatar universal
I've been on around 50 diff psycho drugs since the 90's.  the only one my wife and kids said made me better was wellbutrin.  I lost 30lbs, bought a couple more cheap rentals and remodeled them, but eventually it quit working and the weight and laziness/depression returned.  Been off all psycho meds since 2009, opiates helped a bit when i quit AD's and skitzo meds.  I've also always been honest and upfront with my dr, (because he is a personal friend from college) who used me as a guniea pig, we concluded i'd rather bounce up and down than be flat. When the good times roll in, i am able to offset the weight gain and debts that come with the down times.  Google, learn, and ask me and others even my dr about every psycho med,  they all have a startup and quitting problem, plus seem to level out your swings while taking away your motivation.  I've never had one that helped me meat my obligations except the 1st year i was on wellbutrin and also quit smoking for several years from it.   Paxil, zoloft, zyprexia, geodon, seriquil, ristoral, ambien, cymbalta, xanex, ativan, prozac, enderal, elivil, topamax, ...etc, my list is huge, not one of them improved my life, just made me not care.  If I hadn't been living in the same small town 50 years with family and friends asking me 'what's wrong?'  I'd never been able to pull myself away from them.  There's many videos on mental issues, one in particular is called "drugging of america"  that most should see.    Years ago, when our grandparents had depression come on, they would sell out, pack up and move.  It might be in our genes to change, rather than "find a new ....".   You are wonderful Tony and have come so far in a short time,   I am against psycho meds, especially for some one like you.  I know that house project has bogged you down, can you reach a livable break point and take the family on a trip?  give me a shout.
Helpful - 0
2030769 tn?1343647674
.  Hi,I just wanted to say there is nothing wrong with not being into small talk and being intense.  Have you ever listened to most of the small talk that goes on?  People talk way too much about nothing anyways. I would much rather have a meaningful conversation with an intense person any day. :)
Medication is an option.  Personally, It didn't work well with me in treating my major depression, the side effects just weren't worth it.  
Maybe first just look at your lifestyle and see if there is anything you can change or stop first.  I recently learned that caffeine really aggravates depression and bipolar.  How is your sleep?  How is your diet?  Maybe looked into all that first before starting meds.  I can say I am already noticing a HUGE difference in my sleep, anxiety and depression since cutting out caffeine.  But everyone is different.  No matter what, I know you will get through this and get it all figured out.  Hang in there.
Helpful - 0
3197167 tn?1348968606
http://www.nativeremedies.com/ailment/bipolar-disorder-symptoms-info.html

Thanks, Tony for asking about this.  The link above is one I have just started reading...as it seems to explain ALL angles of bipolar and ALL types....and many ways it is treated.  I have a LOT of questions myself about this topic.  Two dr's have insinuated I am bipolar myself.  I haven't learned enough or been clean long enough to have come to my own personal conclusion.  

However, one particular thing that keeps "popping" up, in just about every area I am researching.....is "seratonin levels"....and our mood setting neurotransmitters.  This fascinates me....because here on MH in a few of our Health Pages....it is medically stated that MUCH anxiety and depression that occurs AFTER getting clean is caused by low seratonin levels.  The web site I referenced above...also mentions seratonin levels in bipolar diagnosis.

Quitting smoking affects seratonin levels. (and you have done this too, Tony)  Taking lithium (a very common mood stablizer med prescribed for bipolar) is not touted as "addictive" per se...but if wanting to get off of it...people are warned to do it very gradually as it ALSO affects seratonin levels.

I have been on MANY AD's over the past 12 yrs of my life.  SSRI's and SNRI's mostly....when they were attempting to treat my pain without opiates.  I am now weaning off of tricylic AD which I have never ever experienced before.  It's pretty much trial and error for me.  The tricylic AD actually did help with my chronic pain and subsequent depression...but I am unhappy with some of the side effects and have only been on this particular medication for 3 mos.  I read a wikipedia article (one of the only ones I could find) about long term affects of an AD.  That's where I learned nicotine can act like one and affects seratonin, too.

It's a booger boo, Tony.  I'm doing trial and error....healing....re-anlyzing...being cautious as h*ll, trying to figure out what works for me...and continually asking myself if I have given an ample amount of time for all these messed up neural pathways to actually BE BETTER?  I don't know.  I KNOW I cannot take opiates for my pain....and I KNOW my anxiety will eat my lunch and keep ringin the "chemical relief" bell....

I'm sorry to run off at the mouth about this....but you and I are pretty close to the same amount of time clean....I don't feel like I'm equipped enough yet to decide anything yet.....should I wait longer?  Should I try a low dose of an AD to help seratonin levels?  I personally don't think I've given this ole body of mine enough time to heal and HAVE the answer yet.  I mean one year versus ???? yrs of using, smoking, drinking, whatever...and my scales still feel VERY unbalanced.  

KLB84 had some excellent things to share.  I belly laughed outloud when she said she'd never heard of anyone robbing a pharmacy for zoloft or paxil. (so true, so true)  And her advise about the psych dr was GREAT.

One last thing, I've noticed..... there are two diagnoses that MANY addicts have been given:  bipolar.......AND.....fibromyalgia.  This greatly interests me and is worthy of more understanding on my part.... particularly since I've been told both those things about myself as well.

I probably didn't help you.....cause I'm learning and deciding these very same questions for myself.  If there is a natural way to regulate my brain...I will seek that info out first and go from there.  

I wish you peace during this journey....if I don't have peace in my gut and my heart about something....I know I must wait to "act".....until I do.

Hugs o bunch to you my dear friend~
Connie
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Avatar universal
P.S. Please note, I'm not recommending Paxil for YOU (since I didn't study medicine and don't know what will be best for your specific situation), I'm just letting you know that the Dr. was able to find something that was right for me, and he actually did this without any trial and error :-) .
I know that being on a medication again is scary, but a lot of psych meds aren't addictive in the way that opiates are. I don't know of any (besides benzos of course) that are going to make you want more, never feeling fulfilled with the quantity you have. I mean I've never heard of someone robbing a pharmacy for paxil or zoloft. LOL. I know Openmind24hrs wrote, worried about what might happen if you had to quit taking the med, and to b honest, I know the Paxil I'm taking says it's NOT easy to quit CT, BUT, in regards to psych meds like mood stabilizers/anti-depressants, would it really be that bad to take it and feel like a normal person the rest of your life??? Especially you being male, you don't have to worry about getting pregnant and needing off of it or something. Plus, like my meds only cost $4 per month WITH OUT insurance, so....just saying you have options, and they aren't all bad or scary. It could be really good.

I just recommend being brutally honest about everything, and ask questions about whatever they recommend - cost, possible side-effects, alternatives, etc. Also, I don't know if this is relevant in all cases, but the first Dr. I saw and did not like was as old as Sigmund Freud himself! My current Dr. is middle aged - not so young he has no experience, but young enough he's up-to-date on the latest research.
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Avatar universal
Unfortunately I can't give you advice on "who" to go to. I'm far from where you are. I wish I could. My own personal dr. hasn't excepted new patients for 3 years. If it wasn't for an LPC he had working for him I wouldn't have got in. I pray God puts the right person in your path like he did for me.
This is what I know about mine: he is a board certified psychiatrist. (He has "MD" after his name). His website specifies that he sees patients for "conditions ranging from Depression and Anxiety to Bipolar Disorder and Alcoholism. It also notes "he does not prescribe Xanax or pain medications". This tells me he's not interested in seeing patients who just want meds. Google or look in yellow pages to find a list of local psych. dr.s and look at their websites. You may find reviews on Yelp.com. Hope this helps some.
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Avatar universal
Weaver, I don't know anything about the medication but I can absolutely relate to you on the feelings you describe. I guess I'm bipolar also. Some of mine: I wake up in the morning and I have 2 boxes of things to play with- the good things or the bad things. On the bad days I'll pick apart a conversation and dwell on just what I conceive as bad parts and proceed to build it up into a monster all day. And that causes a domino effect on anything and everything else that happens that day. Good or bad, only the bad rules my mood. On the good days, nothing can shake me and my feelings of well being - even if someone is trying to bring me down, I just don't pick up my end of the rope in the tug-of-war and I enjoy things no matter what. So, I don't need drugs and alcohol to make my life unmanageable! -but if and when I add them, God help me. That's why i don't think I have another recovery left in me...

I also agree with you on "I just got my feelings back, I really don't want to lose that." I was on a small does of amitripthline (Elivil) for 2 years along with the pain meds and I couldn't wait to got off of it. It took me 4 months to taper, which ended in March. Still can't sleep very well.

I will never take anything without completely researching it. The big question is "what is it like coming off of the stuff if i don't want it anymore? It solves a problem, what side effects do I have to put up with to solve that problem? And then I look for threads from people on the drug, or trying to stop the drug. I didn't do any of that research when my doc said "take this Elivil along with your Vicodin".

I hope you get some feedback on here that will help...
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Avatar universal
Thanks, I was diagnosed at 19, I'm done self-medicating and everyone is watching me. I never really believed whole heatedly I was bipolar, but I can tell in sobriety. What kind of psych do you like? My local choices are very limited, being in the mountains. There are endless choices in San Francisco, so I'll likely be driving 5 hrs to a doctor, maybe 3. Any recommendation where to start?
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Avatar universal
You've posted on my posts so you know what I'm going thru currently, but if you read my profile, you also know I was sober for many years. I think after a year of being clean it's a good time to look for a "GOOD" psych dr. for your 'disorder'. That way you don't and up "SELF" medicating. Previous to this year clean, your emotions could have been all over the place without having a disorder, but now I think it's time.
I found a GREAT psych dr. BUT there are so many bad ones too :-( ones that over-prescribe, etc. BUT if they know in advance you were a past addict and that you're leary of pills, hopefully, no matter who they are, they will start you out slow and see what works for you. I know during my addiction I went to a psych dr. who just shoved pills at me and I didn't know if I was coming or going. AFTER being sober for a couple of years I went to a different psych dr. - reason was for anxiety, depression, and total emotional craziness due to HepC treatment, BUT they were very gentle with me (as I was also VERY reluctant to live like a zombie again) and they helped me thru the HepC treatment, and I've chosen to stay on the Paxil (lowest dose they make) and I feel more emotionally 'sound' than I ever have before withOUT feeling numb. In otherwords, I can control my emotions, but still feel them. I feel like this is what I've needed since I was 14. At 20 something I was diagnosed as bipolar. I don't think I am, and this new dr. hasn't told me I am, but when your on drugs, ofcourse you act bipolar. POINT BEING, even though I've not been diagnosed as bipolar recently, I still know what it's like to feel unable to control your emotions, or at least having very intense emotions, and it's good to finally feel in control. So yes, I say, GO! That doesn't mean you shouldn't be reluctant about 'over-prescribers'!! Ask for refferals, and read reviews and ask your wife for help for insight into those reviews as to why ppl. wrote what they did. If you can find a good dr. it will be well worth it in my opinion. I'm very thankful I did. Just to let you know though, a good dr. may take a while to get into, that's why you should start looking now.
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