Can tramadol and suboxone be taken concurrently for withdrawal?

[laadyemerald]

Hi, I'm new to the site.. Hopefully someone here will have first hand experience attempting to take suboxone (buprenorphine) and tramadol at the same time. I'm 20 and in college working towards becoming a nurse practitioner, but.. I have an unfortunate 2 years running addiction to heroin (medium tolerance, equates about 50mg methadone a day). My close friend is also in the same boat, and we've been attempting to quit (unsuccessfully) for the past two months. Fortunately I do have access to plenty of suboxone (my prescription, I used to use it to "span" those times I'd lose my supply except that this time, I want out) and several other withdrawal medications (clonidine, methocarbomol, ambien, trazodone- all prescribed also). On the other hand, my friend has a prescription of 50mg tramadol (Ultram) that she has never used and a prescription of valium for panic disorder. Now for any pharmaceutical geeks out there, does anyone have an accurate action profile on tramadol? This makes it pretty difficult to figure out if we could use tramadol concurrently with suboxone in a short detox setting (4-5 days) because of this.. For example, taking a normal opioid (morphine, heroin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc) with suboxone would be a disaster and either cause a worse induced withdrawal, or at best suboxone would simply block the other opioid. Anyone know just what receptors tramadol binds to (specifically, like the mu- or kappa-opioid receptors for instance, or its effects on neurotransmitters, anything like that?), or its halflife?

Right now I'm successfully 12 hours into a suboxone detox. Heh, taking the suboxone and tapering it practically in half each day is the easy part (and almost painless because of its 36 hour halflife, if anyone is wondering about switching to suboxone).. it's the staying off that always kills me. I've switched over to suboxone many times after using your "regular" opioid narcotics, but my close friend wants to try taking tramadol and suboxone at the same time to avoid taking higher doses of either drug. Sounds like a bad idea to me; if tramadol acts on the mu receptors it could put her in an induced withdrawal (because of the two drugs "fighting" over the receptors), or the tramadol just wouldn't do anything at all because it wouldn't be able to bind on. I've just had a lot of trouble trying to find any info about this.. if anyone has tried both at the same time, please let me know what your experience was!

[Lizrox]

Hi,

I had a 2 year BAD addiction to Tramadol.  Tramadol is a synthetic opiate.  Suboxone is for opiate withdrawal.  I think taking tramadol with suboxone defeats the purpose of detoxing in the first place.

Liz

[Dave W.]

Hi Laady,I think Liz is correct about using one opiate to withdrawl from another. Kinda like myself using Oxy to fight the Methadone w/d's.Sorry,
I couldn't be of more help.All the medical talk is confusing the heck out of
me.LOL.I'm not that nieve about how meds work in the system,just not about
how they bind to your recetpors and neurotransmitter's.Somebody on here should know a little more about the specifics of each of the meds. The Tram
did make me feel 100% worse when I tried them for Methadone W/d's. Good
Luck.

[sasha53]

Hi, am trying to get info on same subject.  Have had massive tramadol habit for ten years.  Am now without tramadol, waiting for an internet delivery which is late, or worse, lost, am in the wilds of rural ireland, so am absolutely stuck without the delivery.  I have some subutext here, but don't know how far into wd's i have to be before it will help.  Have never gone more than about twenty four hours off of the tramadol without the help of some other sort of opiod.  Also want to know does tramadol render heroin ineffective.

Sash

[bettie1976]

I just got out of my second detox facility yesterday evening. My first was in 2002. I relapased after a year and a half and it took me this long to get back "with it". Im 31 years old, Im addicted to (especially) opiates, alcohol, benzos, whatever ya got ill take it, pretty much sums me up. Im scared right now, and very anxious. I didnt have anxiety when I was in detox (was there 6 days to get off of percs and vics with the suboxone whice I must say was wonderful) There are no meetings in my surrounding area today or tonight so I just thought Id air my dirty laundry here since Im having issues. Last night I went to the ER and told them everything, even tho Id been there many times drug seeking. I asked them for Vistaril (already got a ton of clonidine from my doc) for the anxiety, Im a calm person but last night I was bouncing off the walls. It was hard. My boyfriend realized, while I was in treatment, when he came for family day, that he too, was an alcoholic. He went to the doctor today and got something for his own anxiety. Im glad he woke up and is admitting it finally because Ive been telling him he was an addict for months but he didnt believe me. Hearing other peoples stories helped him admit it to himself. So Im grateful for that.
Anyhow, just wanted a place to vent. My first day home feels so weird and I feel alienated since Ive been with 20 people all week and all day Ive been alone. Usually alone is what I like and want but not right now. Im getting emotional so Im outta here.
Hope to meet some of you people who are like me. I miss those I met in detox already.

Bettie

[bettie1976]

I wanted to add that while using the suboxone I didnt have any bad side effects or withdrawl symptoms from my opiate use, which was pretty high, about 20-30 percs or more a day + alcohol + somas. Its now been 19 hours since my last suboxone tab and Im doing extremely well except for the anxiety. I want it again now tho since it takes the cravings for opiates away and its all mind over matter. Im going to see a doctor, tell him my history, see if I can be on a small dose of sub. for a short period of time to keep those cravings at bay. The staff at my detox facility told me it may be a good idea and gave me paperwork to give to him.  Also, a girl I was detoxing with told me she took 8 tramadols and had a seizure at a concert. I have about 120 tramadols and wont touch em. I ordered them right before I decided to go into detox. Waste of 90 bucks. I coulda bought some shoes dammit.

Bettie

[notmenow!]

look up the site Drugs,com, there you will finf a drug intrtaction guide. Ultram and suboxone is a very high combination alert reslting in seisurzes and even death, I am in pain management I take 32 mgs of sugoxone daily, i tab qid. My pain management Dr. tells we whem i have a painful episode to waite at least 8hrs, Before I take 4 , 10/norco. When doing this I'm happy to report. I had no withdrawls at all. After a few days on being on the norco, I would wait 8-10 hrs before going back on the suboxone. With no side effets at all. She tells me because hydos are a fast acting drug. And is out of your sytem in 8 hours max. She tells me hydros are a fast acting opiate,Unlike oxys or many other class II DRUGS, But I trust her and I TRIED IT, I was releaved when I tried it because of the pain I had. When making the xfer back to subs I had not problem what so ever

[Dave W.]

Great info about the hydros being out of your system in a short while. I thought
they were the same as oxy's.Do ya think I should use the Sub to get off Methadone
and oxy's? I did C/T on the done and was taking the oxy's for legit pain,but didn't
know I was just prolonging the Methadone withdrawls. After 5 weeks of pure hell
I gave up and went back on a about 40mg a day instead of the 80mg aday and
I'm feeling good,but really want off this junk.

[bettie1976]

I think (for me anyways) the sub was a great experience. I still have some in my system obviously since I read somewhere on here that it takes up to 72 hours to get out but what the hell, I feel decent and its been about 40 hours since my last sub. I found a doctor on a site I found here suboxone.com? i believe and have an appt monday to keep myself on the sub but its like a tapering schedule. Im just lucky my bf is paying for it because the first month is around 700$. Then it gets cheaper, 125 per month, but thats just one clinic. There are many. One DID take my ins. but they werent taking anymore patients.
A girl I was in detox with was taking the sub for methadone and all I can say is, she left too early. I talked to her today and she was not doing good at all. She shouldve stayed longer. She actually got there a day before me and left earlier than I did. If you do go that route, good luck to you and just a word of advice, if youre going the treatment facility route, stop taking your meds in time to where you are actually going thru w/d's by the time you get there if you can. They wont give you the sub until youre almost in full w/d otherwise itll make you real sick.
Good Luck

Bettie

[seanm999111]

Look NOBODY has answered his original question at all, he wants to know if you can take tramadol pretty soon after methadone and if he will be ok or how long to wait before switching, qhich quite frankly I am going through the same problem right now, its been 9 hours since my 40 mg methadone dose and i dont know whether to take the tramadol yet or not and my doc said go for it but ive read some things that made me scared, WHO CAN SERIOUSLY ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR ALL THE PEOPLE OUT THERE WONDERING???     and HOW LONG DO WE WAIT TO TAKE THE TRAMADOLS AFTER METHADONE OR SUBOXONE??

[notmenow!]

I told the people that taking suboxone and ultram is a dangerous combination, causing seisuzes and possiby death!  I'm not going to comment on the methadone and ultram, but if you go to this website and register you can get drug interactions for all drugs it is called  www.Drugs.com   there you will find an interaction checker on drug combinations. For info on transferring from methadone to suboxone go to www.suboxone.com or call 1-877-782-6966. 8-8pm EST. THERE YOU GO KNOW DO A LITTLE RESEARCH------------------------NOAH

[Ga Guy]

Just saw your earlier post in this thread from August. You've come a long way my nerd loving friend. Just seeing that post and seeing what you're going through shows how strong you've been these last couple of months. just wanted to say what a wonderful job you're doing..

[FLaddict]

Geez buddy calm down, this question is old. and maybe no one knew the answer at that time.

no you can't take Tram and sub at the same time..

You have to wait 48-72 hours after taking methadone to take Sub and you must be tapered down to less than 20mgs of meth in order to switch to Sub.

I would wait 12-24 hours after taking Tram to take sub

And if you are getting off of taking meth or Sub why the heck would you want to take tramadol?? isn't the point of those meds to GET OFF other pills

[seanm999111]

god the vaginlook all crunk juice aside you should answer anyones question fully even if you feel like it is dumb or not in there best interest, maybe someone (like me) isnt strong enough to come off the sub/methadone (30 mg/s a day) right away so ive used tramadol in the past for 6 months straight for opiate withdrawals and barely had a problem coming off of them, that is why i asked that question methadone is a ridiculous excuse for an addiction treatment tramadol is an incredible way to get off of all of them but most people believe it is just stupid, but after doing your own research first-hand it works better then anything ive ever tried in my life and actually makes you happy as well, no opiate high whatsoever, barely any withdrawals, doesnt harm your body barely at all, all hail the tramadol ;)

[seanm999111]

look all crunk juice aside you should answer anyones question fully even if you feel like it is dumb or not in there best interest, maybe someone (like me) isnt strong enough to come off the sub/methadone (30 mg/s a day) right away so ive used tramadol in the past for 6 months straight for opiate withdrawals and barely had a problem coming off of them, that is why i asked that question methadone is a ridiculous excuse for an addiction treatment tramadol is an incredible way to get off of all of them but most people believe it is just stupid, but after doing your own research first-hand it works better then anything ive ever tried in my life and actually makes you happy as well, no opiate high whatsoever, barely any withdrawals, doesnt harm your body barely at all, all hail the tramadol ;)

[MonGZ]

im addicted to oxycontin about 320mgs give or take everyday...i want off this **** i been on it for about 5 years and its jus gettin outta control...i have a perscription for tramadol 50mgs and im wondering if that **** takes care of the withdrawals by itself possibly wit some valium  along wit it to help wit the anxiety. anyway, wud it be possible to "quit" wit the tramadol. i cant find answers anywhere and i want off n i cant find methadone or suboxone anywhere in hawaii @ the moment and i dont wanna go to a dicctionologist cuz then ill be blackballed from painkillers forever for wen i really need it later in life...please help its greatly appreciated. mahalossss

[joe1jim2]

I agree with Fladdict.  You are supposed to go off meth or tramadol before you take Sub, probably a day, I think, but depends on drug, essentially at the full withdrawal point.  I also don't get the reasoning behind combining other stuff like tramadol with suboxone, its a contradiction in treatments, in other words I dont think it would work, I think you might have some trouble, and I dont see what your objective would be by attempting it.

[tessy445]

what results would you get in a urine test when taking suboxone? would the show up clean?

[cattalina]

It depends on what type of drug test you're taking.  It could show up as an opiate in a typical UA, if it's being sent to a lab (ie 5 panel UA) it will show suboxone.  Are you not supposed to be taking it?

[steveo30]

i was agreeing with you if you can read.laadyemerald is the person saying it is a synthetic opiate

[steveo30]

sorry it was lizrox that said that not laady emerald

[steveo30]

where did you go

[dres]

Froim what I know of the two drugs the Tramadol is an opiate.If you take Suboxone while taking an opiate it will throw you straight into withdrawls.Not a good idea.

[flmagi]

Just an FYI,  This is an older thread and the original poster may not be on the forum anymore.
But the answer to the question is like dres just said, although, taking the tram with Sub may or may not put you into precipatated withdrawals, there would however, be no effect from the tram anyway and defeats the purpose of taking Sub.

[steveo30]

call a pharmacy or look in a PDR book.tramadol also known as ultram is not a narcotic or an opiod.WELL SAID FLMAGI

[avisg]

It is an synthetic analgesic

[steveo30]

where are you getting your info. from

[avisg]

Steve here is part of an articale on it

Tramadol, a synthetic opioid of the aminocyclohexanol group, is a centrally acting analgesic with weak opioid agonist properties, and effects on noradrenergic and serotonergic neurotransmission. In addition, these opioid and nonopioid modes of action appear to act synergistically. Tramadol has been shown to provide effective analgesia after both intramuscular and intravenous administration for the treatment of postoperative pain.

[avisg]

This is stright from ultram site Mechanism of Action
ULTRAM ER is a centrally acting synthetic opioid analgesic. Although its mode of action is not completely understood,
from animal tests, at least two complementary mechanisms appear applicable: binding of parent and M1 metabolite
to μ-opioid receptors and weak inhibition of reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin

[worried878]

using tramadol while on sub seems counter-productive  to me...if u r on sub then u r trying to quit opiates/synthetic.real or opiate "like"  if u still feel the need to take a med to stimulate ur MU receptors then what is the point of being on sub?   i would re-evaluate my plan and be sure my goals were in order

[Ga Guy]

I know this is an older thread, but I thought I'd throw in my .02 cents worth on the Tram/Ultram and Sub thing. Tram acts in many ways just like an opiate, however it's mechanisms are very different than typical opiates that are treated by Sub. Typically, a 4mg dosage of Sub will block 100 percent of opioid receptors. However, tram doesn't work on these receptors like typical opiates do. That's why sub isn't indicated for tram addiction. In most cases, if you take 4mg of Sub and then take an opiate afterwards, it will block the opiates from binding, thus no high. Tram is different in that respect. Just like  avisg said, Tram works mostly on norepinephrine and serotonin...not traditional opioid receptors.

[avisg]

THIS IS FROM ULTRAM !!!!!!!!! There information I am pretty sure they know what there meds are. ITS ADDICTING and the wd are nasty I should know it was my DOC.


This is stright from ultram site Mechanism of Action
ULTRAM ER is a centrally acting synthetic opioid analgesic. Although its mode of action is not completely understood,
from animal tests, at least two complementary mechanisms appear applicable: binding of parent and M1 metabolite
to μ-opioid receptors and weak inhibition of reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin

[avisg]

ULTRAM ER is a centrally acting synthetic opioid analgesic

[Ga Guy]

Avisg is completely right. It seems like the people that keep claiming that Tram/Ultram/Ultracet aren't "real" opiates are people that never took the things and are relying on the same literature that the pharm companies dole out claiming that this drug isn't as "bad" as traditional opiates. Unlike Avisg, it wasn't my DOC, but I used it successfully as a bridge between Percocet scripts. I think it's even more dangerous in the Ultracet form because of the massive amounts of Tylenol people ingest in order to get the Tram.

[avisg]

GA very good point there are people taking 20 or 30  ultraset a day not thinking about the apap in them

[Ga Guy]

I am guilty of it myself. I was taking 25 a day at times. Plus, another bad thing about Ultram is the long half life. No wonder the WD's are so much worse. It can be nasty stuff. I think it's only a matter of time before it gets a bump in it's DEA Schedule.

[worried878]

trams are just as dangerous as true opitaes   why keep plugging for them/trams,.,,they hurt just as bad and not if worse to wd from,,,,not an easier drug for an addict to use..if u think so u r fooling urself...trams are right up there with the percs and hydros we are discussing...dont lower them to a lesser evil cos they r not,,to me they r the same as hydro and percs

[PhilBawdy]

I am currently on suboxone for roxicet addiction and I have to say my story on tramadol/ultram. I was taking tramadol daily, 4-12 per day, ordered off the internet, I had a seizure and came very close to passing away. I don't remember the moments before the seizure but from what I'm told, I was at work saying goodnight to an employee of mine when my arms pulled up close to my chest, eyes rolled back and I went down like a ton of bricks, dislocating my shoulder in the process. I had taken 8-10 trams when this happened, luckily my employee hadn't left our office and was able to call 9-1-1 and get help. I work with my parents, they rushed in and I was blue, had blood flowing from my nose, they thought I was gone. They performed CPR until the paramedics arrived, its pretty blurry, really have no solid memory until later that night in the ER. I was admitted and spent several nights for multiple tests/scans, all that stuff. After all this, I came back to work and started taking tramadol again within a week, for those who say its not addictive or habit forming, YOU ARE WRONG! I recommend never taking this medication, it could and will eventually kill you one way or another and it's departure helped me to find satisfaction in Roxicet which nearlly killed me as well. Two months on suboxone and I am without relapse, have taken more subox than prescribed at times, but find it easy to get back on track.

[dudeguy15]

it is so rude to insult people saying if they are on sub and take another drug, they need to "evaluate their life" or whatever, who are you to make a comment like that?  Don't make comments like that, if you don't understand why it's wrong to say something like that to someone, to judge someone you don't even know and say they aren't trying because they take something else while on sub, there is something deeply amiss.  You should reevaluate YOURSELF, consider what you are saying!  Your message when you say this is, "ok, now that you have taken another drug, stop your attempts at quitting and be an addict, you have to now that you have taken a drug recreationally".  For the others who have been how should i say, "slipping", its ok, don't stop trying to quit.  It's ok that you slip once, or twice, or for a whole year.  You are not condemned or labeled to be destined to only ever be an addict.  Not at all.  Don't ever listen to anyone who says these things to you.  This was part of why you became an addict in the first place isn't it?  You can really believe in this too, keep trying, no matter how many times it takes.

[justme543]

i broke my foot, I have been on suboxone (10mg) daily for 4 months. I have a script for hydrocodone and tramadol and have been afraid to take any of it due to what I have been reading. I have been taking tylenol and Ibuprofen, and icing my foot. BUT I CANT TAKE IT ANY LONGER. Can anyone give me any insight?? If I take a 50mg tab of tramadol and continue to take my suboxone as prescribed will my pain subside? and will I be okay? Please help!

[jam7455]

Tramadol absolutely CAN be taken with Buprenorphine (subutex*) or Bupe/Naloxone (suboxone*) The Antagonist effect of the Naloxone, do not absorb into the blood stream enough to have any real effect, but even if it DID tramadol has some affinity to the mu receptor which is resonsible for the euphoria produced by opiates when activated at the receptor site, among other effets on the body as a whole. That being said, the combo of suboxone which is a stimulating kind of an effect because of the partial agonist actions at receptors that also do not cause as much sedation, and add to that the noregenic and serotonigenic activity of the TRAMADOL, and you will be in HEAVEN.

Best to not take either for very long, but BETTER if you just take the Bupe for a couple of weeks and then the TRAMADOL for a month or so and then wean it down.........by then you should be over your METHADONE post acute withdrawal for the MOST part................the half life of tram is pretty short......about 6 hours, while the HALF LIFE of BUPE is longer than METHADONE........more like 36hrs................