Coming off Buprenorphine

I have been reading a couple of forums about coming off Bupe / Subutex as I am tapering down and planning on 'jumping' in a couple of weeks. The reason for starting a new thread is for 2 reasons:
1) The other forums I read shows there is very little support out there for people like us, and many people do not know what to expect when coming off this (myself included)
2) I am hoping that the support I receive from this forum will keep me strong on the days I feel bad - cos I know I am going to - but I am determined that this is it - I will start 2012 free of drugs!

My plan is to use this as my 'daily diary', as I will write an update each day to let everyone know how I am feeling, both physically & mentally. Hopefully, this will be a help to others who are going through it or considering coming off it and will give me the added support I will need over the coming weeks.

So, just a quick introduction to me - I have been on Bupe / Sub for nearly 18 months now in total, but constantly for the past 12 months after using heroin & oxys for 8 months. I started on 12mg daily but reduced by 2mg a time quite quickly to 6mg with no problems. Then to 4mg 7 months ago, again no WD symptoms. I then reduced to 2mg 6 months ago but it wasn't holding me til my next dose & I was feeling crap (shivery / couldn't sleep). The doc put me back up to 4mg and told me to reduce by 0.4 but left it up to me when I would reduce. I was too scared to reduce for a while but I have gradually been tapering and am back now down to 2mg daily (for 3 weeks) and feel fine. If I am late dosing, I start to feel it within an hour or so, but this may be psychological in part.

I tried to jump at 2mg last week but felt so rotten within 2 days that I was back at the docs and back on 2mg (I had the worst shivers / hot flushes and bad stomach and left work early).

My aim is to reduce by 0.4mg each week until 23 Dec and then come off it completely. The reason for doing it over Christmas is that I am off work for 9 days in total and so will be over the worst of it, if not completely better! So I will be coming off 0.4 - 0.8mg. I am going to try and save some so I have an emergency dose - is that wise???

To be honest with you, I thought that would be fine until I read the forums and realised that other people have been on it for less time than me, tapered down more and are still feeling awful 3 weeks after quitting :(
SO NOW I AM SCARED!!! But I am still determined to do it and would ask if anyone has any advice on making it more bearable, then please let me know!! I have been told that taking 3 or 4 Ibuprofen is like a small dose of Bupe / Sub so I have some of those but the thing that worried me most is the RLS - I have suffered on and off with this for years anyway (since before the drugs) and hate it so if anyone has any tips for this, it would be massively appreciated!!!!

Well, that's enough for now - hopefully I haven't bored you all yet, and I really would appreciate any answers you have. Don't worry, my future posts will be much much shorter than this!

Cheers :)

[vicki595]

It's great that you have a plan! I think it will make this go a lot better for you.

I'm going to get in touch with a member who has a lot of experience and knowledge. He travels quite a bit so give him a little time (day or so). His name is Henry.

I know a lot of folks taper down to crumbs before jumping and, I agree, a lot of that may be psychological. I also know that the withdrawal after jumping can be protracted. It's the nature of the drug but goes a lot better if you're prepared. Three weeks seems to be within limits.  As far as holding some for "just in case"...it's really better to push through rather than take a dose of Sub. If you're always doing that, you'll never make any progress. But I understand that it's the fear that makes you want to. You'll feel better after Henry speaks with you...

As far as the RLS goes: Get some CHELATED calcium/magnesium tabs and follow dosing directions. Potassium helps as well. You can get some tablets but it's just as good to eat bananas and drink orange or apple juice.
Hot baths with Epsom salts are heaven. The salts contain mag. which gets absorbed through the skin.

Drink and eat well. Start thinking about aftercare or recovery care of some kind. Any kind of support group to help you remain clean. The forum is great but it's not always enough.

Stay in touch!

[medousa1]

I hope i am the right Forum.. Congrats on wanting to gain back the control of your Life!!
If i may join you on your Journey to Recovery i would appreciate it, I too am seeking answers to closing that chapter. If i may tell of my progress thus far as to show what i have done and plan to do.
2 Years ago in the month of Nov i decided that my Pain Pill addiction was way out of my control that i was even sick if i did or did not feed the Lion i was taking any kind of Narc i could get my Hands on and my Paychecks were spent before i got them, I was a mess. I found a clinic that offered the Suboxone treatment and had my first Appt 1 week after my last Pill and on that Day i was desperate for help they started me on  8 mg buprenorphine with 2 mg naloxone twice a Day, This was to strong for me we agreed at my next appt all i did was sleep and when i was awake i would spill and drop anything i was holding cause i was dozing off so we cut it to one tab in the AM and 1/2 Evening which worked along with therapy for one Year then i started lowering my dose then explaining to the Dr i felt it was time to taper down to 3/4 and 3/4 this was for a Month, then it was so easy to get away with 1/2 and 1/2 ( one tab a day) for another 6 months i kept tapering until i was down ( and still am ) to one quater Tab every three days  i stopped the clinic 6 months ago and started therapy with a different Dr which isnt part of the program, I still have enough Sub to last another Yr but want to stop NOW! This is where i am struggling, I get to day 4 and am so weak but have Anxiety also i have knots in my Stomach with loose Stool i have trouble with sleep and i feel like i have weights on my ankles then i take a quater of Sub and feel good i clean the house and feel normal aside from my head feeling heavy the next day is fine then day 3 i start feeling sluggish then comes day 4 all over again. It is a cycle i want to break but it is hard to push past that fourth day of course like others i dont have the time to see it thru for 2 weeks or however long it will take to get the worst behind me. I do know also it is time to bite the Bullet and do it which is where it brings me to wanting to find the answers like how long after and what to do during.. so it starts here and now lets walk together my friend

[Iwillsurvive2011]

Vicki, thanks for all the advice, esp on RSL - I will stock up on my vitamins, minerals & bananas cos this will be the thing that stops me coming off the bupe as I really hate the feeling! Also, many thanks for asking your friend to help me as well - its good to be able to talk to people that really understand what its like. I don't really have anyone round me that I can talk to - my family all live in the UK and I wouldn't talk to them even if they were local. They love me but they would just worry and they don't even know about my addictions anyway. My boyfriend is wonderful but he hasn't gone through it himself and so can only understand up to a point,
Your point about after care has got me thinking - I'm not sure what to do about this but I know I need something otherwise I will just replace this addiction with another - story of my life! I have been hooked on weed, speed, alcohol & coke separately and have managed to kick each one but each time have soon managed to find a new substance to abuse - its usually an overlap. I think this addiction has been the worst due to the horrible physical symptoms, not just psychological. However, I realise I need to find out WHY I cannot just be happy as 'me', why I always feel the need to get wrecked. I honestly cannot remember the last time i have been straight for more than a week or so in the past 16 years - I am 32 now.

I'm pretty confident I wont get back on the gear - I have moved areas & deleted all my dealer's contact numbers. I NEVER want to go through a heroin withdrawal again and am not too worried about this - its more the fear of how bad I will feel when I stop taking the bupe.

[Iwillsurvive2011]

Medousa - I would most definitely want to try and take this journey together with you. I have always found it much easier to do something I am afraid of / unsure about if someone else is with me. I would very much appreciate the company, and if I can help someone else while going through it, it would make it all that more bearable and give me something else to focus on when I am feeling weak.
I know exactly what you mean when it comes to pushing through the barrier. The first day or so is relatively easy - its when you are still feeling crap after a few days and the thought of feeling like that for any longer is almost unbearable - especially when you know just a tiny pill will make you feel better almost immediately. I think it will be very tough for you if you have a years supply left - it will take an extremely strong person to resist taking it when it is easily accessible. I will admire you so much if you do it as I know I couldn't. My plan for an 'emergency' dose is to hopefully have a couple of mgs there so I can take 0.4 to take the edge off if I am feeling really bad. Do you plan on keeping your supply near you, or will you make it harder for yourself to access?
I also empathize with you when you say you dont have the time to see it thru for 2 weeks or so - this is why I have planned a time when I don't have to work for a week so even tho my Christmas will probably not be great this year, it will be the best present ever to come off this stuff. Also, by planning a date, I can prepare as much as possible for it - research, stocking up on various vitamins & medications, and reducing as much as possible beforehand. Are you able to plan a time at all? Or do you have other family / personal commitments that make this impossible? Even if you cant really free up 2 weeks, if we do it together, we can give each other the support we really need to beat this. As you know, I have got another 3 weeks of reducing before jumping altogether so we have time to find out everything we need to know. Together, I am confident we can do it :)

[dempseysgirl]

Hi,
Thanks for your post. It made me understand something.. I am addicted to oxycontin 30-60 mg a day and on Tuesday, I took suboxone for the first time. Unfortunately, I got it from a friend, not a doctor and several hours after I took it, I got extremely high and extremely sick.. I think I had a mild OD. It's been 60 hours since I took the suboxone (same dosage as you) and I still don't feel any withdrawals.. which is really weird..Normally, I would get sick after 24-30 hours, if I took one 30mg oxy.. Now it's 60 hours without anything and I am still fine.. From your post though, I can tell that the suboxone probably does have some kind of time-release function, since you also only took it once every three days.. maybe that's why I don't feel sick yet.. What do you think? thank you

[Iwillsurvive2011]

How long was it since you had an oxy when you took the suboxone? From what I understand, if you take suboxone too soon after you had an oxy, you go into "precipitated withdrawal" - this is because the suboxone knocks the oxy off the brain receptors - but because the suboxone only a partial opiate, as opposed to the oxy being a full opiate, it does not stimulate the receptors the same way and so brings on the feelings of full withdrawal - you feel all the symptoms at once, not gradual onset over a couple of days (Please correct me if I am wrong on any of this, it is just what I understood from what my doc told me)
As to why you now don't feel any symptoms, I do not know enough about the effects of precipitated withdrawal to comment but I am sure there will be others that know much more so keep checking back for answers :)

[dempseysgirl]

Wow.. so does that mean that when I got sick on Tuesday, it was actually the withdrawals?? does that also mean that I done and over with it? That would be just too good to be truth.. I took the suboxone at 11 am on Tuesday and I had the last oxy (whole one) around noon the day before (Monday) so it makes sense that it was too soon.. you see this is what happens when you don't get it from a doctor.. I had no idea.. I was just listening to my friend who "claimed" that who ever gave it to her, knew the exact procedure on how I need to take it.. how ridicilous.. I am so dumb.. I could have overdosed on that sh...t!

[gnarly_1]

HI  sub is a funny drug we have had members come off at 2mg and get little or mild withdrawals then we have member like you where there body reacts there is no telling how you will come off this drug the lower the does the shorter the duration but the symptoms my still be there we have had members take it down to crumbs with little to no withdrawals and other suffer for weeks you just dont knoe till you try I would suggest quiting 3 days b/4 your time off it usually take about 3 days for the full withdrawal to hit im a methadone addict its evil twin sister but ive used this forum over the last 2 1/2yr to lean as much about sub as I can so im interested in your journal so keep posting I wish you luck just nkow any pain you go threw will be worth it I know it was for me and methadone withdrawals s u c k good luck and God bless......Gnarly

[dempseysgirl]

Hi guys,

this is going to be the weirdest thing.. So on Tuesday, I have taken the very first and the only suboxone dose ever. I probably took it too soon after my last dose of drug of  choice and that's why on Tuesday afternoon, I got really sick.. Mainly I was really really high and I was throwing up like crazy.. kind of as if I had a mild OD.
It's been over 75 hours since that suboxone dose and I STILL DON'T HAVE ANY withdrawal symptoms.. I really don't understand how could that be.. I know I had physical addiction on oxys, because I was taking 30-60mg/day for three months and few weeks ago I did get sick when I forgot to take enough pills with me to campling trip.. Basically after taking only one dose of suboxone, my withdrawals dissapeard?? I just don't get it.. I am not complaining, but it's just really really weird..

[free2626]

First of all I want to thank you for your forum, it reminds me of where I was about a month ago.  I had been taking butes for 18 months as well as u have and I have gotten to the point where I want to be drug free.  I did the same thing as you did tapering down to the lowest dose possible...which is very good.  And about a month before I thought I was going to come off them completely I started an exercise program going to the gym and jogging for a least 20 minutes a night.  Which this plays a huge part in the w/d process.  I then found a family member that had all the support I needed and I stayed with her.  I am day four clean of suboxone right now and i can't say it's been easy but for the first time tonight I see the light at the end of the tunnel.....a little advise is mainly DO NOT keep any suboxone on you as an emergency because trust me you will use it....Day one and two (for me) weren't the worse It was three and four......the fever, shivers, weird skin sensations, RLS and insomia were the worst for me.  As for as the RLS getting a little exercise during the day will help followed by a lot of stretching....I took calcuim, potassium and magnesium......as well as a b12 tablets right before bed and the most helpful was a warm bath for about 20 minutes really helped with the RLS....but my advise is if you have a doctor helping you through this there are a few thing he can prescribe to you help you get through the worst such as valium, xanax, or ativan to mainly help you sleep....I can tell you that if the doctors had even a clue what it takes to get off this nasty controlling substance no doctor would prescribe it!!!!!!!!! but this wasnt to scare you it was just to maybe make you experience better than minen and that you know that you can do It I promise you can!!!! you have to stay strong!!! You'll make it

[Iwillsurvive2011]

Well, I have reduced my dose today - about 1.2mg taken (I only have 2mg tablets at the moment so I broke it in half). obviously feel ok at moment - tomorrow will show whether I will feel anything from the reduction. My doctor told me to only reduce every 2 weeks as it takes the body that long to adjust to the new dose - am going to try to do it a bit quicker than this as i want to be on very low dose - about 0.4mg before coming off.
Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I finish work on Friday 23 Dec for 9 days so I will take my last dose on Thurs morning as I have found I feel WDS about 1 day later - probably partly psychological though.
Yes I agree I probably should not keep any as an 'emergency dose' - but I know some of my WDS are definitely psychological and if i have a couple of mg there, it may help with this aspect of my withdrawal. I will think about this and see what happens nearer the time.
Am worried if I ask my doctor for Xanex or valium, I will just end up swapping one addiction for another as this has been my history for the past 16 years! I usually cant stop sleeping rather than having insomnia - but from what I have read, this part comes a few days into the withdrawal and I have not managed more than 3 days before. My doctor is lovely but he tends to let me control the bupe intake - he has never really pushed me to reduce or come off it, its all been my doing.
An excercise program is also something i will try to do - i dont do anything at the moment at all - naturally quite lazy i think when it comes keeping fit! But i like bike riding so i will try and start cycling each day - it will be a good way to clear my head as well.
Thanks again for all your support - it is really helping already so keep it coming please :) The worst is yet to come i know but i think i will be so ready and prepared this time that i have the best shot a making it through.

Thats all for now, will post another update tomorrow...

ps Dempseygirl - am hoping that you dont start feeling any symptoms - it does sound a bit weird that one dose of sub, even if it may have caused precipitated withdrawal, will be all it takes but weirder things have happened and you may just be one of the lucky ones. If so, keep of the oxys as it will be all to easy for you to start them again but you may not be so lucky next time with the withdrawal. Keep me updated anyway as it will be interesting to see how you go :)

[dempseysgirl]

Hi, I am still OK and no symptoms but as you predicted it is not easy to resist cravings when you "get off so easy" I did have a major craving today but with help of Sandra ( another member here) I managed to resist.. I just bought pack of cigarettes instead :-) ha ha.. It worked.. The craving passed and I feel good about resisting and not letting myself down..

[gnarly_1]

HI tapering is a very personal thing there is no set guidelines its different for everybody I know over a 8 1/2 mo methadone taper I had to stop several times to let my body ketch up I call those road blocks it usually only a few days longer but it make all the difference in the world rearguardls of what your tapering on the human body need to be the final judje and also in the lower doses your going to feel it there is no getting around it if done right you can keep it to a minimum just do what you doing and let you baody be the final judge not a date on the calander this is doable but you have to take in acount how you feel and what your level of acceptance is for withdrawals theres no painless way of doing this but you dont have to torcher yourself ether good luck and God bless.....Gnarly    

[Iwillsurvive2011]

Well, it is day 4 of being on 1mg per day and I dont feel too bad. I take my dose in the morning so during the day i feel fine. It is late evening when i begin to feel a bit off - just shivery, slightly restless legs & a bit sick sometimes but its not bad and I can sleep so I just go to sleep for the night and can usually stay asleep till its time for my next dose in the morning. So hopefully i can stay on 1mg for a few more days when i will feel ok for the whole 24 hours, then i can reduce again to 0.5mg. Will keep u all updated,...