Complcations Of Vicodin Es

[bizziebe]

my question is can you develope other health problems as a result of taking Vicodin es for a long period of time like heart failure, constapation, etc..I would like to learn all that I can about this medicine since I have been taking it for a long period of time. I don't want to sound like I'm panicing or bug anyone and I do appreicate all the time and effort you all put into this website and anwsering my questions. I'm wanting to just deal with the pain and stop taking it but at times it can be unbearing pain,Just about all of my teeth are decayed into the gums. I have read that some people take them for the high but it is the funny feeling that makes me panic some times but then I would rather deal with that feeling than be in that kind of pain, but when I take it I'm constantly checking my pulse and heartbeat until the feeling wears off. Is their anyone that has or had panic attacks?? See I use to be scared to take anything [any medicine]for about the last five years because when I went threw the starting of my panic attacks I was put in the hospital, that is how bad they got but then my husband got real sick about a year and half ago and I have to focus on him and taking care of our four children, he is not expected to live another year without a Liver Transplant or that is what the doctor's say anyway,and I have faith that god will not be putting him threw all this suffering just to let him die, so when I went to the dentist that is what he gave me and it worked so I've been taking it every since so that is what I found that would stop this pain until I can afford to go back to the dentist and get all my teeth taken care of becuase now it is very hard for me to go to the hospital in the middle of the night and get a shot that knocks me out for a few days, which scared me half to death .Because when I'm in pain I get very agravated and don't want no one messing with or talking to me and I don't know why I'm that way but I'am. Any way that is why I started taking it in the first place and I wish that I would have never started, if I'd only know then what I know now..Well thank you all for taking the time to read this, I know alot of it does not have to do with the Vicodin[in terms of my husband's illness] but just wanted to explain.Well good luck to all with the battle's with medication's and god bless you all. Bizziebe

[Thomas]

Just for the shear joy of terrorizing you further, there actually IS one more thing to be concerned with (truly) when taking Vicodin, my friend -- Tylenol-induced liver damage.

True, for two years running I took up to 100 Vicodin per day (each pill with the equivalent of an extra-strength Tylenol in it) and through some work of the devil, I'm still walking around and my liver test three weeks ago was incomprehensibly normal. But I've been told by specialists that there are rare cases of people walking around that either naturally process Tylenol efficiently without appreciably damaging the liver, or, through years of progressively higher and higher doses, acquire a certain "resistance" to Tylenol's liver-toxic effects. I think I belong to the former category.

But if you're "the average joe," you don't enjoy that kind of safety margin, you need to heed the warnings on the bottles or from your pharmacist. I've most often heard that more than eight extra-strength Tylenol (generically called acetaminophen) has the potential, especially when there are other health factors involved, to cause irreversible liver damage leading to liver failure and death.

It's a lovely way to die, I hear. You get the news from your doctor that your liver has failed and you have a handful of days to live, allowing you to lie in a hospital bed and think about how you just threw your life away.

Of course, we're talking about maniacs like me who take ludicrous amounts of Vicodin, thus ingesting these aforementioned fatal doses of Tylenol. But, as I said, in my case, I have a deal with the devil that keeps me alive (I also haven't used Vicodin or Tylenol for several years, not wanting to test the limits of my infernal contract.)

As long as you don't exceed the maximum prescribed Vicodin dose, Bizziebe, you won't overdose on the Tylenol, so this message isn't really meant to alarm as much as educate you.

IMPORTANT: One recent, poorly publicized discovery, something you really should be mindful of regardless of whether you're doing one or 50 Vicodin per day:

Recent research has yielded what I understand to be pretty conclusive proof that mixing alcohol with Tylenol increases Tylenol's ability to damage the liver by a considerable margin. There is a well-documented story of a 30-ish man who downed three Tylenol with two beers and, as a result, died several days later of liver failure. The man had no previous history or either alcoholism or liver problems. Extreme example, I realize, but sobering tale, regardless!

This alcohol-tylenol "synergy of death" is on my mind from time to time because I know it's common practice for people to wash down Vicodins with beers or booze, either just to get a better buzz, or in an attempt at "stretching" their dwindling supply of Vics til he next refill becomes due.

Anyway, Bizziebe, especially since the MD on site took the time to address your concerns, I thought you were being ill served by not having the Tylenol-alcohol issue mentioned by him (Dr. Steve: educated, certainly, lazy, definitely).

Avoiding the problem, of course, is easy. Just don't drink with the Vics or anything with Tylenol (acetaminophen) in it. Tylenol, used properly, is still one of the safer, more effective over-the-counter painkillers around. I personally find enteric aspirin more effective (enteric ONLY, by the way, for your stomach's sake), but Tylenol, all in all, is still a good drug for minor pain and fever.

Hope this has helped without alarming you. From your earlier posts, it doesn't sound like you're doing anything dangerous with this stuff, but it's good to be aware of this stuff.

P.S. I repeated this same post in the next thread, but screwed up the paste job from Word, so I thought I'd try or a cleaner post.
Peace.

[Jimenez]

Hey man, check it out. I'm now a methadone man. Not for maintanence, but for pain relief. I told you my problems with the MS, foggy head wise. Well, the option I thought was going to be Oxycontin or the like. The evil in me said, sure, I'll go along for the ride. The physical therapy I've been involved in has exacerbated my issues. Anyway, the doc says he's going to switch me to Methadone for pain management and that most of the people in the pain clinic are getting on or are on the same thing. I thought, damn, if only someone like tom could have had a doctor that thought this way.

Well, I can now say that methadone is NOT like Darvon, at all. The family resemblance isn't even slight. Of course, I didn't trust this "maintenance" drug for pain relief for proper pain control and justified doubling the dose right off the bat. I was hurting pretty good and just for good measure, in case the methadone didn't help, I popped two Vicodin as well. Well, to my surprise, I actually got a little tipsy on 10 mgs. of methadone and 2 Vicodin. Moreso than the 8-10 10 mg. Vicodin I had been taking. So, I am sitting here wondering, is my tolerance really okay after all these years? I mean, some of the people that have come on here with meth.maintanence are starting out at 60mgs +! If I had popped that today, I would have been laid out, and I've been going through the Hydrocodone like water. So I'm at a bit of a loss here. Spook? Doc Dan? What gives with that? I was up in the 100-150 mgs. of Hydrocodone a day and got goofy on 10 mgs of methadone. tom, I know, you're probably wondering why I'm sharing this, but with your past curiosity about this and the why and why nots of doctors just prescribing it for pain relief instead of going to the "skid row" clinics, I thought you might be interested. So, I'm controlling my pain at a way low dose of methadone, and in the back of my head I'm thinking that I'm halfway to stopping it all when/if my pain issues get resolved. I'm rather stoked about the whole thing. My heart sunk when I didn't get put on the pure evil. Now, I know that it's in my best interest. Just as long as I don't go overboard with my monthly alotment now, that's the struggle. Anyway, there are doctors out there that are doing this. He is NOT a licensed methadone maintenance doctor either. He can only prescribe what he did for pain. It's too bad there's no standards in this country. Let me know what you think, or just read what I wrote, no big whoop. Take it easy, hope the programs still cooking along with you.

[pelle1985]

Well, deals with the devil notwithstanding, Thomas (and certainly not an endorsement to do anything this stupid), but. . .

. . .as far as "Superlivers" are concerned, mine probably is up in the Hall Of Shame category, since after amnu episodes of abusing Vicodin/Tylenol w/Codeine/whatever containing Tylenol (usually by the handful), *then* going out and getting abysmally drunk -- I STILL have zero liver damage.  Go figure.  Again, to all reading, do not take this as license to be stupidly self-destructive, but I find the story of Tylenol and one beer a little (well, actually a lot) too extreme to be true without the presence of some severe underlying liver problem in the deceased (not that it makes any difference to the victim -- dead is still dead).  

Peace,
Pelle

[pelle1985]

Sorry. . ."amnu" is not some foreign word, it was supposed to be "many".  Guess it's time to take my tired fingers to bed.  :)

Also, I stand corrected -- the story referred to by Thomas of the 30-something (dead) man states that he had *two* beers, not one, with his three Tylenol.  Again, my mistake.  

Pelle

[Thomas]

I think it's great you're using the methadone for pain relief! I have always read that it is one of the best, most effective, and most "benign" to the body of all the strong painkillers. Congratulations, my friend! Sounds like you've a great doctor with something gong on upstairs. Although methadone is undeniably a godsend to heroin addicts, it tends to give it a bad name it never, never deserved in terms of it being a legitimate and wonderfully effective painkiller. I think you've found a wonderful solution and I send you my sincerest wishes that this is the solution you've been looking for. I know with all those key bone breaks in the worst possible places, you've deserved this solution for a long time.

I'm immensely happy for you. No one deserves to languish in pain and I know you've been through a lot already.

Good luck to you, my friend,

Your friend,

Thomas.

[spook]

Just off the top of my head-(Cerebral frontal Cortex):

1.Opioids(Hydrocodone) have no such Cardiotoxicity.in fact respiritory and gastrointestinal paralysis are the major short term and long term factors to concern oneself with.And even then the `Toxicity` is fully reversible.

2.It sounds to me that you suffer from Panick Disorder and have discovered that Opioids are a very effective anti-panick agent.
So now you can include panick attacks as a symptom of Opioid withdrawal.Typically they are not.

[spook]

Their are many types of Opioid receptors and also subtypes of them,there are also ~sites? that one opioid ie(methadone)will bind(influence) that another Opioid ie(Hydrocodone)will not.
One thing that all Opioids have in Common is a resonable binding affinity for "Mu" Opioid receptors(PAIN) and stimulation of the Mesolimbic Dopaminergic VTA-Nucleus Accumbens reward circuit(EUPHORIA-unfortunate).
Methadone is goofing you out because it *(binds more tightly in relative global "Mu" receptor affinity to a sub-type) in the Mesencephalon area(brain stem) concerned with  states of arousal and perception.
So it will make you spacey and drowsy and the Hydrocodone will make you "more" euphoric and alert and actived.
Methadone binds pretty strongly to gastrointestinal Opioid *receptors and is considered superior to morphine for stomach pain.
In fact I ONCE used so much Codeine SO often that instead of an Adrenalin RUSH resulting from fright I would get a Codeine RUSH,I have not bothered looking into the Neurophysiology behind this effect,but am not to surprised as Codeine is stimulant and will cause convulsions as per any stimulant in doses that are large(>300mg single oral dose).
Some Opioids are not very specific at all(Mu)receptor and are more Hallucinogenic than Analgesic,so they are not used much.

[spook]

Also,It sounds like you are a Methadone Virgin,in which case you will have exquisite sensitivity,enjoy,while it lasts.
Methadone is ofen used for chronic pain sufferers in Australia,as it is considered qualitatively superior to Morphine for Chronic pain and can be given in a way that gives very stable blood levels,below is very approximate for single oral dose,nb Methadone will accumulate due to long half life.
10mg Methadone is equal to 30mg Morphine
30mg Morphine   "    "   " 50mg Hydrocodone

[Frankinscense]

Sir, I can only point out the difference in the two medications.  Vicodin is a short acting medicine with actions similar to codeine. Methadone is a long acting medicine with actions similar to morphine. That is the basic difference. Methadone maintenance is about finding an adequate dose that stops all opiate cravings
and withdrawals. MMT is not about producing a high. Higher doses are needed some times to achieve this need. Pill addicts require doses in the 60-80 mg range to stop all cravings
and withdrawals. MMT is about being comfortable for 24 hours without cravings and withdrawals. Higher doses are needed to accomplish this feat. The high associated with methadone will rapidly disapate to produce a patient that functions without craving and withdrawals.
Dan...

[spook]

What you say is correct,what do you think about bizziebe`s original question?.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

From reading your post here and the one below, I would say that you need to be treated for panic and anxiety.  My own wife has similar problems with narcotics and usually refuses them in favor of Xanax.  She has cancer related pain and has been prescribed mega-doses of Lortab and Vicodin ES.  She rarely uses them out of fear of addiction and the "funny feelings" they give her.  For the life of me, I don't understand it! I'm just the opposite preferring opiates over benzos for pain.  J.B.

[bizziebe]

I'm already getting treated for my panic attacks and anxiety with the medication Xanax, but scared to take it with the vicodin and the same reason I won't take Vicoidin every 4-6 hours as prescribed I don't want to get addicted to none of it and be all messed up, I know a few family member's that are addicted and only take them for the 'high' and that has always scared me. I make sure there is a lot of hours in between the two[VicodinEs, Xanax] if I need to take the Xanax. The whole reason I take the Vicodin is because I don't want to deal with my toothaches because they get so bad,and as I have said I don't have money to go to the dentist at this time, but will soon thank god, then I can stop panicing over all this! Haha.. But I wish I could only use the Xanax but they don't stop my pain..And I think I have done pretty good I've been on them for 4 years now but only take it when I have a panic attack which is maybe 2-3 times a week and sometimes 0 that week, I have learned to control my fear in some ways but sometimes the brain just takes over and I end up taking one if the attack stays with me for hours.. Thanks for your comment and good luck to your wife and you. ps:What is Opiates and Benzos??

[Jimenez]

First of all, tom, thank you very much for your post. Your sincerity and concern have made my day. Honestly. Spook, thank you for your wisdom. I'll have to re-read it a couple of times, I'm but a man with a B.A., takes awhile to understand that stuff!:) Dan, thanks for your input. I hope you didn't think that I was TRYING to get high. I honestly didn't trust the methadone to adequately treat my pain. It is one of the misconceptions that tom speaks of that it's link with heroin withdrawal has produced. I thought, oh well, only 5 mgs. can't be much especially with what I've read here. Of course, I was physically and pharmacologically wrong. But I too am still learning. On the way to the Dr's yesterday, I thought a lot about my wife and daughter. I made my case for a "stronger" triplicate drug. Oxycodone being the one I went in for. I'll be honest. Well, when I got methadone, after the initial "let-down" I was relieved. It has worked great just in the last 24 hours for pain relief and the side effects are minimal. Less so than with the MS Contin. Would I like to be like tom right now and be on nothing? Of course. But with this doctor, not only have I seen him make the best choices pharmaceutically but I have an open dialogue with him about my pain. My initial reaction to him was Methadone? You don't think I'm a drug addict do you? Of course he didn't and couldn't treat me that way even if he did. Along with his explanation of methadone came the inevitable explanation of how it's used in withdrawal cases. He said he never wants me to go through withdrawals. Which leads me to believe that I've finally found a doctor that will not only help me responsibly with pain management, but when the time comes will not cut me off cold turkey and send me out into the cold. Ask anyone here, that is a rare find. I haven't felt this "secure" in ages. I have no intention of getting on the 150 mgs. of methadone a day deal. I know that no one "plans" that and that it can sneak up on me, but I feel that I owe myself, my family and my doctor the same amount of respect and understanding that they've afforded me. I can show that by not Junking out. So, again, please Dan, know that my initial bewilderment of being high on 10 mgs. of methadone was just that, bewilderment. It wasn't an attempt on my part at all. It surprised the hell out of me. Good day to all. Thanks again.

[Jimenez]

"Opiates" describe the family of narcotic painkillers. Morphine, Dilaudid, Codeine, Hydrocodone (Vicodin), demerol, etc. They are natural, semi-synthetic and synthetic. The purest are derived directly from the Opium Poppy, hence the name "OPIates". In the USA you need a prescription for all opiates. Opiates, after prolonged use produce tolerance and dependance that although aren't life threatening to withdraw from, are very uncomfortable.

"Benzos" are tranquilizers. The Benzodiazapine family. These include Librium, Valium, Xanax, Restoril, Ativan etc. All of these are closely related chemically. The relieve anxiety etc. Benzos also produce tolerance and dependence. At even moderate doses though, unlike opiates, acute (quick) withdrawal from benzos can be life threatening.

Sounds to me like you have your head on straight about both drugs and are taking care of any addiction and/or withdrawal problems on the front end by watching how many you take now. Very wise. Good luck, and be careful because they sneak up on you when you're not looking.

[bizziebe]

First off why would you want to get joy out of terrorizing me more? I see no joy out of scaring people..I already have HepC and I get my blood work done regulary [1xmonth]and they seem to be fine for now, actually the doctor says that is good and he can't beleave I'm doing so good, so I thank god everyday for that.And WHEW' I could never imagine taking that many Vicodin's in one day! I would overdose and wouldn't half to worry about panicing again!! Haha.And I'm fully aware of The Lovely way to die as you put it, my husband has HepC and Cirrhosis and is in need of a liver transplant ASAP and I live everyday with him suffering and I know I don't want to go threw that, I never knew what complications one's liver could do to the body until all this happened to my husband. That why when I was surfing I came upon all this and became aware of this addiction and went to my doctor with it and he said with how much I'm taking I should not have no worries as long as my blood work is normal and I don't get addicted, he feels that I'm not but I wonder, that is why I started asking questions when I found this website. As for the Alcohol no way!! I do not drink at all, I use to every now and then but when all this happened with my husband I won't drink a drop..And I worry about overdosing on two Vicodin's a day much less 10 or twenty! They say your tolerence builds up but I guess mine is not cause it keeps my pain down with one a day after a year.Very good for you for not using, just keep up the good work, were you taking them for pain or the high? If you don't mind me asking..thanks and peace to you too.

[spook]

I find it `odd` that you have been taking xanax for 4 years and sometimes 2-3 times a week and other weeks none.
First reason is because with True Panick Disorder,the usual dosage required is 6mg(average)per day.
So the dose you take when you do take it for a "panick"? must be small <2mg or else it would knock you out(sleep),therefore I can only presume you take 1mg or 0.5mg,now it is not known to medical science (YET)that a dose of (Alprazolam)brand name "xanax" that small could stop a panick attack.
  Next problem is between dose(interdose) anxiety,you see,even if you have been only using say 1.5mg per week average for 4 years it is unreasonable to miss a week without getting Withdrawal symptoms.
Conclusions,you do not have Panick Disorder Diagnosis.
Your Doctor does not know what Benzodiazepines are either.
You are not taking the medication as prescribed.
All of the above.
  Well at least you know that Opioids are free of life threatening toxic effects(you know like tobacco,ie,CANCER).Although you certainly are far from knowing everthing their is to know about "Hydrocodone".
=================================================================
Their actually is a Difference between Opioids and Opiates,"all Opiates are Opioids but not all Opioids are Opiates",does that clear it up?Clue:some come from Opium(Morphine Base),some are Synthetic,but all effect the Opioid Receptor System.
Give it away:Opiates come from the Opium Poppy.
Why not confuse things more and introduce the semisynthetic Opiates,ie Hydrocodone,also known as 14-hydroxy,7-8-dihydro,3-methyl,6-morphinone.
Basically they just grabbed some (god made-see Morphius)Morphine out of an opium poppy(natural) and then for some bizzare reason(honestly ,I do not know)have wacked on a hydroxy,2 hydrogens a methyl group and torn the hydrogen off the 6-position.
All this effort and the drug is just as if not more addictive than morphine.And no better an Analgesic.
The writing is on the wall for Oxycodone,next Hydrocodone can get the flick.
I think it is time SOME people woke up and smelled the poppies.  

[spook]

I find it `odd` that you have been taking xanax for 4 years and sometimes 2-3 times a week and other weeks none.
First reason is because with True Panick Disorder,the usual dosage required is 6mg(average)per day.
So the dose you take when you do take it for a "panick"? must be small <2mg or else it would knock you out(sleep),therefore I can only presume you take 1mg or 0.5mg,now it is not known to medical science (YET)that a dose of (Alprazolam)brand name "xanax" that small could stop a panick attack.
  Next problem is between dose(interdose) anxiety,you see,even if you have been only using say 1.5mg per week average for 4 years it is unreasonable to miss a week without getting Withdrawal symptoms.
Conclusions,you do not have Panick Disorder Diagnosis.
Your Doctor does not know what Benzodiazepines are either.
You are not taking the medication as prescribed.
All of the above.
  Well at least you know that Opioids are free of life threatening toxic effects(you know like tobacco,ie,CANCER).Although you certainly are far from knowing everthing their is to know about "Hydrocodone".
=================================================================
Their actually is a Difference between Opioids and Opiates,"all Opiates are Opioids but not all Opioids are Opiates",does that clear it up?Clue:some come from Opium(Morphine Base),some are Synthetic,but all effect the Opioid Receptor System.
Give it away:Opiates come from the Opium Poppy.
Why not confuse things more and introduce the semisynthetic Opiates,ie Hydrocodone,also known as 14-hydroxy,7-8-dihydro,3-methyl,6-morphinone.
Basically they just grabbed some (god made-see Morphius)Morphine out of an opium poppy(natural) and then for some bizzare reason(honestly ,I do not know)have wacked on using heaps of dangerous chemicals: a hydroxy,2 hydrogens a methyl group and torn the hydrogen off the 6-position.
All this effort and the drug is just as if not more addictive than morphine.And no better an Analgesic.
The writing is on the wall for Oxycodone,next Hydrocodone can get the flick.
I think it is time SOME people woke up and smelled the poppies.  
They do not smell like this $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Francoise]

If you want to see if you're addicted, stop taking the Vics for 24 hours. If you don't get depressed, have a runny nose (and runny behind), yawn a lot, have cramps, and like that, you're not addicted.

[bizziebe]

Okay fist thing,I do have a Panic Disorder, when I have one of these attacks my heart starts racing 90 to nothing and my hands start sweating and this awful fear that I'm going to die comes over me,most of the time I think I'm going to have a heart attack and I use to spend ALOT of time at the hospital ER just for them to tell me I had a PA,but in the beginning it was really bad, I quit eating in fear of the food was poisoned, I wouldn't eat anything unless my husband ate it first and then I would wait hours before I would eat it just to make sure it was safe, but it got to the point that I was starving my self and dehrdrating because it was the same route with drinking, and my husband worked at that time and I was home with kids by my self so I would go all day before drinking and eating,and I lost almost a hundred pounds within three weeks, but I ened up at MHMR to seek help because my husband and best friend seen that this was seriuos and I needed more help than they could give, and they sent me straight in the mental hospital, and I learned what trigger's my attacks so over the years so I avoid the situations like now it is to the point where I don't leave home unless I half to and traveling is out of the question, I won't live far from the hospital either. As far as going to stores or family get together's almost all times I end up in a panic, [too many people and noise] but hwne I have my attacks I tell my husband and he talks me threw them and when that don't work and they it stay's with me for a long time I end up taking a Xanax 0.5mg is what is prscribed to me, but I have learned to avoid what trigger's them so in a short statement I have not really delt with my problem or faced my fears, but all the dostor's I've been to for this is a joke and only wants your money and wants to put me on all kinds of medicines like Zoloff and Restoril and Xanax,I don't want all that because I don't want to half to depend on that many medicines to make me better and besides that I don't have money for all that.As for the medications I won't take just anything either like capsuls, I try to stick to what I have taken before so I know it won't hurt me, so no I do not take the Xanax as it is prescribed[3xday] or the Vicodin every4-6 hours] because I would be in LALA land and sleeping all the time and that I do not want. Alot of times when I have a attack I keep telling my self this is just an attack and I will be okay and I pray and it helps a lot. Who knows why I don't have withdrawl from the Xanax.. Do you also think I should have withdrawls from the Vicodin if I miss a couple of days? And what else do I need to know about Vicodins? I wish I could talk to you in chat, do you have aol instant messenger or Icq? I would love to talk to you than to try to explain in a long letter. Maybe I could meet you in the chat room they offer in this fourm[medhelp] just let me know and thanks for the comment.

[bizziebe]

Thank you for your comment,  I can go a day with out any of that so thank God I guess I'm not addicted, huh? Is that the only affects you get from withdrawls? But I half to tell you I know I'm depressed because I'm going threw alot with my husband he is not expected to live another year [so the doctors say] anyway. So is that a sign that I'm addicted? One more question why doesn't anyone go into the chat room that they offer from this site?

[spook]

I agree that you do have predominantly "limited" symptom Panick attacks and in the past have had "FULL blown"requiring Hospitalization;the ones that make you feel like you are dying,etc.These Attacks have now evolved and are now associated or triggered by normal social situations(well for the 21 century),you have described the sympoms well.You seem to have a lot of Anticipatory Aversion to the triggers and this keeps you house bound,I think you have settled down a lot since the fear of eating stage and you would be well advised to not use xanax for panick attacks,unless alternative therapy,Pharmacological and cognitive(behavioural) fails.
I know about the distorted horrific frightening sounds and fear of public places,learning to avoid the triggers,ie public, open places,public transport,public speaking,crowds,etc,will interfere with your daily life functioning to much and is the opposite to cognitive or behavioural therapy.This is when a Psychiatric nurse will accomply you into the situation causing fear and panick and stay by your side,as you feel better to handle it alone they will walk in front of you slightly and eventually when comfortable you can venture out on your own.Sometimes Panick disorder resembles social Phobia,this is when you feel watched in public,dislike eating in public or using public toilets etc,the social phobia seems to develop secondary to the inital onset of Panick disorder.
  Hypochondria? and OCD?,in your case(fear of eating,because may be poisoned)although this is usually a withdrawal/rebound symptom of Xanax withdrawals,a type of delusional paranoia.So in this resect I highly suspect you are getting withdrawals from the xanax.
Zoloft is effective againced Panick attacks and is non addictive unlike xanax.Aurorix is good for Anticipatory aversion and panick attacks and non addictive,Xanax in daily dose of 6mg works fine,but I think one is rather spaced out and highly addicted and you may as well get drunk to achieve the same result.
  I would go off xanax and Vicodin and once stable from withdrawals,commence an `ssri` like Zoloft or try an MAOI like aurorix(does not attenuate libido)and start on behaviour therapy,before things get beyond YOUR CONTROL.
Remember all addictive drugs will cause the opposite effects to that which they were originally intended durind withdrawal phase,this takes around 24hour on either xanax or Vicodin.

[Frankinscense]

I am concerned about the denial present in various posts. Addicts? We are all addicts here! Pain or no pain. If we stop our medicine will all will experience withdrawals. BEing comfortable with a pain specialist is a secure feeling. Why,because we do not have to worry about where our next dose will come from. Pain produces this need and so does addiction. Can a patient with pain be called an addict? Dependent yes? Addict I am not sure. Only the brain of the patient know this answer. Most pain patients experience some form of withdrawals. A few do not experience any withdrawals. Pain produces a need that is simlar to an addict. I don't think it is necessary to be concerned. A diabetic does not feel guilty when he injects his insulin. A epileptic does not wonder if he should remain dependent on his dilantin. Why does a pain patient have to wonder if he is an addict. Dependent or addict. I am not sure that he/she is not both. What does it matter? Because our society dictates what we are. Any comments?
DAn...

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I don't know whether this will help you in some way but I'll tell it to you anyway.

I am also in end stage liver disease with Hep C and cirrohsis and need a liver asap.  My wife has lung cancer that has not responded to any therapy yet.  We are supposedly at death's door according to our doctors.  I was supposed to be dead two years ago!  We are both still very much alive and viable here so don't get too excited about the doctor's opinions and statistics.

God has the final say-so as to our fates in this life and no matter what we do...what will be, will be!  We've had to go through all the various stages of fear, anger, denial, etc. to get where we are today...acceptance. Now we are able to go on with our lives with our heads held high.  It's a feeling of hope, courage and dignity till "death do us part", amen.  J.B.

[bizziebe]

Your post makes a lot of sense to me but one comment I truly don't get is how do you get I have withdrawls from Xanax in the statement you said about'Fear of not eating' when all this started before I ever took Xanax before in my life?? That is why they started giving it to me, so what you are saying is Xanax should not be given for this type of illness?? And til this day I still battle with it but have more control over it and as far as the bathrooms in public 'Noway'.. My kids don't even use it I don't let them at all. I have learned so much about how dieases are pasted since we found out about my husband's illness, si I'm really bad about it now. I don't know if some will say I'm in denial but I sure would like to find out, but I don't have any of the syptoms (symptoms) that everyone has that I read about when I miss a day or two of my meds..Because if I did I would freak out and panic that something is wrong with my health. So where does that put me?? And you know when I'm in a panic yes the Xanax does help.Any comments? Have a good day..

[cindi]

I agree with you. you said that you were not sure if a pain patient is an addict or not...probably in most cases I think the answer may be no....case:  my sister has severe back problems, stenosis nerve damage etc.  she will be in a wheelchair probably in the next 5 years and she is only 37..ok let me cut to the chase here...she has been on narcotics for several years and if she does not have any she does experience withdrawals but...she does not display drug seeking behavior per say, that obsession is not there,  she goes on with life of course in alot of pain..she does not increase her dose or take more than she is prescribed...now, I am an addict, i was constantly seeking drugs, obsession was my name...could not leave the house without a drug....am I making any sense?  so she is dependant on the drug but not an addict....I know many people like this but myself  that's a whole different story  you know the saying one is too many and 100 is not enough....take care  cindi

[Thomas]

you're right about the "one beer story" I left out the part where I ran him over with my car.

[neenie]

this is neenie. what is your email add? i thought it was ***@****. i just spent the past 1/2 hr writing to you for advice and it was returned it said permission denied. i have a few ??? for you to answer. i rely heavily on your wisdom

[spook]

It is probably(maybe-sounds paranoid,I know) a Sub-Branch of the Government in America,blocking transmission to my email address,because they do not like my "Wisdom",I have checked my server/s and the Asian Pacific Network(the Australasian "backbone" of the internet) and the problem resides on your side USA.
China does not allow me much(any-well some,not complaining) freedom of speech either.I cannot help with the email problem as it IS my email address and even 20 mins before typing this.got an email from a friend in Australia and USA,possibly the problem is specific to this site,which means either the CIA NSA or FBI are responsible and are monitoring(blocking only to me,not reading subject matter) emails eminating from people posting to it?.
Maybe now I have said this they will back off,you know China and Australia get on quite well and USA is being non-complient with "global Warming" treaties drawn up in Japan.
I like Americans,its just that your system needs some fine tuning and course encouragement.
One world ,one day one system,Peace.
See my wisdom knows no boudaries and Politically,I think many decissions are "Unwise".

[spook]

Hello,now I know more about you it is easier,as you say your paraniod delusions predate xanax use.(they are not Phobias)
I have had a lot of experience with xanax and once I was sitting in a Doctors surgery in severe withdrawal,because I had Abused my supply and run out and the receptionist asked me if I wanted a glass of water,she was previous to this very rude and suggested the Doctor could not help me and I got bad vibes of her,not like she was`nt getting them of me either(xanax withdrawal)any way she got the water and I became suspicious that it was poisoned.
  I have never had this type of thing happen to me before or ever again,it seemed to be a direct result of abrupt withdrawal from high dose xanax.
Now when one looks at the withdrawals symtoms in a Psychiatric Manual,well delusion,paranoia and Psychosis are to be expected from abrupt withdrawal from high doses.
Currently the accepted method of treatment for people with Paranoid delusions is Pschotherapy as it is complex in nature and the Psychiatrist needs to learn much about the patient and the evolution of the problem.
In my case it was a Neurochemical imbalance,supported by a reality state,that was the fact that the Receptionist was being rude and unfriendly and I was in Psychic HELL,so when she suddenly volunteered some water,it paved the way for the Paranoid delusion.
It is a fact that Xanax will make you feel better(as it stops ALL types of FEAR),but if you want a "cure" then you must explore the Pathogenisis of the illness.
The fear of eating may stem from an early repressed childhood memory whereby your mother accidently poisoned you with food and scolded you for not trusting her food after that.Who knows?
Our foods are already poisoned by hundreds of industrial chemicals,that work their way into the food chain.
You still have not stated the dose range you use,when you feel you need it,if it is a single 0.5mg tablet 2-3 days a week and you often miss weeks then you probably would not notice much.
Wthdrawal symtoms generally peek from xanax on day 5.
The 6mg dose I mentioned is only prescibed by Psychiatrists to people with refractive severe Panick Disorder.
Panick attacks always peak in around 20 minutes,so I am sure you can see the uselessness in taking the tablet upon having one.Altough they may last an entire day.    

[spook]

I agree,I just wanted to say that I self medicated using Opioids as drug of choice,now I am over the underlying problem that led to my addiction ,but it took time for my LIBIDO to settle down,and it was not sex that settled it,oh no that would just expand my Ego.What cured my underlying problem was the realization of all of this.
At the moment I am a Registered Drug Addict,meaning if I am in severe Physical Pain and see a doctor they ring the Health Dept and see if I am On the List and if they PRESUME I seek drugs because I am a drug addict,not for relief of pain.
Well they got that wrong last time I asked for Opioids,I WAS IN REAL BAD PAIN,but I could not point the finger at anybody,so I suffered and the suffering made me feel heaps better.
Besides,I have my morals and even when abusing and addicted,will not steel to procure drugs when money and supply runs out.
But I tell you this if I was in severe CHRONIC pain do you think for a moment Doctors ,DEA agents,or whatever could stop me from getting Opioids,No Frigging way,I can make my own,shift to Amsterdam,armed holdup a Pharmacy,etc,etc-you corner an injured animal(Human) and you watch you back,because in such a situation death is not a fear IT IS A RELIEF,what would I have to lose????????/pain?.

[Thomas]

I agree with your post of April 18th. I think society has done a great job of linking dependency to morality, with no distinctions whatsoever.

[spook]

"permission denied",That means you do not have the credentials to access my email account server.I do not make up the RULES,so who(come on own up) knows what is going on their.
I receive email from all over the world,only people that cannot get through are Cindi and you,do you have anything in common,like have you ever been incarcerated for a drug offences or put on a FEDERAL data base of Drug addicts?.

[cindi]

are you serious about the federal drug addict database?  i was arrested in 1995, not convicted and Idon't know about the federal data base  maybe???

[spook]

In Australia their is a Federal Data base of Drug Addicts and it can be accessed by "CERTAIN people-(freedom of information Act overrides privacy acts for public protection)-with vested interest,I do not know about "the" USA,but things seem to be much tougher over their.
For example I can never work for the Government while on the Register(and possibly never ever,as I do not believe they DESTROY the records),I was put on the Register of drug addicts when I went on MMT.According to a phone conversation I had with the `head` of the WA health dept my name will be dropped from the register 4 years after going off Methadone,that was 2 years ago,so officially I am still a drug addict for another 2 years(whoopy do-dah),even though I am not a drug addict and I only use drugs recreationally now and have not had any drug for about 6 days or so and feel completely normal,although I was drinking a bottle of beer everynight and I stopped that 2 nights ago and was very cranky yesterday and today,but the depression has lifted,so I have had nothing for 2 day,ie no chemicals and I feel GREAT,therefore I must conclude that being a drug addict is a good thing,well according to the Governent,otherwise I would be a winging drug addict asking for help would`nt I?.Or would I.

[neenie]

no none of the above. i don't have any record of anyhting. are you serious?????// NOT. come on spook, cindi did you fall 4 that? really spook how come you can't create a new address 4 us then? i am not on any database that i know of

[cindi]

Yes I fell 4 that  LOl  I always belive what My good ol spooky says...I'm glad you got the maul....i am really to tired to type anymore but Spook, not that you can get my mail I may just keep sneidn it...i need to talk to you   love cin

[spook]

Ask you Doctor if their are regulations for reporting what they believe are drug addicts and then check with local and federal laws about who has access to the data base.
I am not saying(admitting) that I -<or--the Australian Govt has access to USA FED or State registers but I do believe? they exist.
I do not think that is the reason for the email diversion,but you must have some understanding of the nature of the ($*SYSTEM/s).
It is not perfect but it is all we have got and hopefully we will all improve upon it over generations.

[chillin365247]

is it safe to take vicodin es with valium ?and exactly what does es stand for  (extra strength?)??if anybody knows i'd appreciate the feedback. i was injured on the job and haven't been taking my valium for fear of possible side effects.

[chillin365247]

is it safe to take vicodin es with valium ?and exactly what does es stand for  (extra strength?)??if anybody knows i'd appreciate the feedback. i was injured on the job and haven't been taking my valium for fear of possible side effects.

[cindi]

as far as I know you can take the valium and vicodin es together...as long as you take the normal dose and are not abusing anything...I would check with my pharmacist first just to be safe...and yes Vicodin ES    Extra strength.......

[Pillpoppa]

Hi bizziebe - you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.

[nannah1]

If you want to end your life and destroy your family, keep on taking these prescrption drugs! You have no idea what they will do to your body, physically, mentally,emotionally, & spiritually!  I beg & encourage all of you on these drugs to get help before you die! You CAN do it! Believe me, it was the most difficult thing I have ever done, and I am so grateful today for my sobriety and clear mind! Remember, GOD is good!
DS