Damage to our livers?

[ChiTownGirl]

Hey everyone, I am in one of my paranoid moods this morning, and besides the weather here in Chicago is really crappy, raining and flooding.

My question for the day is - How do we know if we've done damage to our livers from taking all the pain meds that we do?   I wonder about that everyday, especially since I abuse T3's.  For instance, I took 12 of them yesterday, although not all at one time I space them out throughout the day.

I have been feeling really sick lately, throwing up alot in the morning, yellow bile stuff, headaches and general tiredness and am wondering if I have done irreversible damage to my liver.

I am going to make an appointment with my doc to see if she can perform a liver test on me to see what Ive done to myself.

Anyone else out there worried about doing damage to your livers?
Thanks for all replies.   ChiTownGirl.

[CalPal]

Hello To All:  I am back on the 'stupid wagon' once again.  I celebrate clean and sober Sept of this year. That would be 'no alcohol, street drugs'. Years ago I was a heroin addict. Then I joined the ranks of Methadone Maintenance for 16 yrs. But then about 18 mos ago, with my very addictive personality I sought a doctor who did nothing but "pain mgt" (he is also a Neuro) and the great doctor put me on Norco. I wanted nothing with Tylenol since most of us know it is damaging to our liver. I also learned a yr ago that I had been exposed to Hep C but I do not have the disease. That was God sent. But over the past yr I have gone from Norco to Methadone tabs (still can't believe I did this to myself after more than two months of withdrawls back in 1996) then I got bored with the pills and asked for Oxycontin and got them. Fortunately I did not like them. Fortunately they produced the worse constipation I ever experienced so they just sat around my house. Then I recently asked for MS Contin.  Now I am doing all this not knowing which is stronger, or which is worse for the body or which is most addictive. I had a trial run last week, something new for me. I went without my Methadone tabs for almost five whole days. Well, I couldn't take the Oxycontin I had at that time because of the constipation. Oh, I suppose if I wanted to I could have opened that vial and dropped a few. I didn't. But when I finally got to the 30th of last month when I COULD get my triplicate filled, I got my Methadone Rx filled at 8AM. That's how bad I felt. Gee, I wonder why I was suddenly sneezing, having chills, and generally feeling rotten. I now know how addicted I am to the Methadone tabs. So, I guess I found out that they ARE more potent than Oxy's or MS Contin. I was very honest with my doctor 9 days ago and told him that I did not need the #380 Meth tabs he was Rx'g me. He reduced that to my now #180 per month. The other #130 MS Contin just sit hidden away. I have no desire to take them. Maybe because I just could not get "high" taking them. Yes, I have a disc problem in my back and both knees need surgery they're so tore up. Migraine headaches, oh just lots of goodies. So legally I guess I would be ok but I'm in HERE right now and I am telling the truth. I got that rotten monkey behind me again a yr ago and now I am addicted to Meth AGAIN. I have a couple questions. One is, are all these so called pro's right who say that Methadone is "liver friendly"? If it is I would have to think Methadone must be doing damage to the kidneys since it causes one to retain urine for hrs and hrs. This is not normal. I was speaking of the "pro's" who are not really pros but are concerned with their Hep C and are convinced that Methadone does not hurt your liver whatsoever. I'd like a REAL statement on this one. Then I am wondering, the hard part here.....should I try to wean myself off of this ---- Methadone myself? I can tell you right now that my dear doctor in all his wisdom and his young years has NO idea of how to "wean anyone off Methadone". I looked over his little notes he jotted for me and I could NOT believe what he wrote. NO WAY FOLKS, it ain't gonna work. Been there, done that.  I also noticed that my hands get swollen in the mornings and I attribute that to the Methadone too. When I stop them for a couple days, no swelling. Well, as I said, I did the Methadone long ago, but for 16 yrs, at a clinic. But I am taking the same medication now, in the form of a pill. So, I am already scared. I live alone with my 16 yr old son. I would think I should have to go to a rehab for at least the first 2-3 weeks. I seem to have a strong conviction about this stuff. When I put my head to it I do it. BUT I am NOT looking forward to this, not again. Does anyone have any ideas? Can anyone tell me that they have experienced very different results as far as all of the meds I mentioned which I have taken all of??  I am really curious as to what others have gone through with the same medications. Oh, for the record, when I took these meds I took these strengths: Methadone tabs, 10 mg, 12/day (now, 4) Oxycontin tabs, 40 mg and up to 12/day, and MS Contin, 60mg at 8-12/day. These are all high doses and I would like to know if anyone has had different results and if 'yes' can you explain it to me. I know I've asked a few questions here but this is my first time going into ANY forum and being so brave. Please try to answer these for me and if you have any words of encouragement please share those too. Thanks so much, your CalPal.......

[Sis1]

no, but I think im gonna move to england now! :D

chill on the pills, ask your parents for help. If you're very addicted and really do want help, you'd be amazed the rehab's you can goto for FREE because your a juvenile. Beautiful places, that's one thing I regret not doing as a juvenile. I still have the brochures for them, what was I thinking!!!
You'll be OK!  - Sis

[britboy]

hi i'm from england and you are able to buy paracetamol (acetimenophen) and codeine in and pharmacy over the counter no questions asked! for too years now i have been adicted to these and take them everyday varying from the maxinmum dose to the a small dose. i'm now beginning to get concerned about the damage to my liver, i am only 17, there is only 8mg of codeine per tablet but it is the paracetamol damage i am concerned about as I sumtimes take the equivalent of 2000mg at the same time. Do u think i will have done much damage? I dont want to die young.

[Sis1]

Hey you guys,
Thank you very much for posting back to me and sharing a little about yourself, that was nice of you! You always hear "YOU'VE GOT TO WANT HELP TO GET IT!" especially when someone is telling you about rehab. I have a few MAJOR setbacks when it comes to getting help. When I get time, I'm going to try to post a topic on getting rehab and maybe get some answers/suggestions about this problem. This post is kinda way down the line & I don't think many people read it! The biggest thing that seems to be holding me back is my anxiety, (Sugar, you might be able to relate to this) I couldn't picture myself having to sit in a room full of people and socialize! :::screams::: OK, So I'm a little melodramatic. But that's nothing ~

I'm also on probation (I told you I didn't spend my WHOLE life in my room!) I've been on for a year & a half. I really don't know what my probation officer would think about me going to REHAB half way through my probation, especially when one of the most important conditions of my probo is to NOT do drugs or alcohol. I don't want to trigger any more random drugs tests or suspicions. I just successfully manipulated my way through a drug evaluation, so I have her convinced I've changed my ways. I mean that's not my biggest issue, I'm sure I could keep it from her, but it's certainly something I'm concerned about.


My MAIN concern is my record. I do have goals, and I hope I can eventually fulfill those goals. but I know how things work and I'm very concerned. My career of interest is Law. I'm a certified Private Investigator, so I know the licensing requirements for something like that. Being a PI is just one of the things on my list. I know they check your medical/legal record very good before considering anything. The legal part is not a problem because I plan on getting my record expunged (cleared) when I'm off probation. But as far as the medical part goes, if you want to be considered for the job, you have to sign a release agreement so that your medical history can be reviewed. Any stays in a mental hospital or signs of drug addiction will most likely have an impact on whether or not you you get the job or fit the licensing requirements. You have to be a stable person to be involved in Law Enforcement or anything that involves helping people. and once I get myself helped, that's something I might consider doing (helping other people!)

It might sound like I'm over exaggerating on the thing about having to be stable when getting a job that involves helping people, but I think we all know the reality of this situation. I was watching paramedics last night and one of the first things the EMS guy said when he brought the patient into the hospital is "He has a history of drug/alcohol abuse, he's been clean 10 years" I thought 'Jesus, it's still being brought up 10 years later' I mean I can understand, it was probably a precaution so they didn't fill him up with a vile of morphine or something.

But, I know for a fact admitting to having a history of drug/alcohol problems can effect you in a lot of places in life. Try getting a job as a pharmacist with a medical record that states you were an addict. It's a great thing to have the will power to be able to get help, and I envy the people with the self-confidence to be able to do that. But I know personally the setbacks it can have on your life if you have certain interests.

Oh my God! I've wrote another book! I'm sorry I just get carried away! Yea I know - Maybe I should get a diary, hehe. Anyway, any suggestions or comments are welcome and will be appreciated very much. Again, Jesse and Sugar, thank you very much for your replies. Jesse it made me giggle when I pictured you online shitting on all the internet geeks. hehe. Sugar, that's wonderful you care so much about your children, I'm sure you're very grateful to have something so special to live for and I'm sure they are very grateful for having you! OK! I have to force myself to stop typing ~ I'm stealing all the post space!! Replies may be posted here or E-mailed to me at ***@****

[Sugarbeens]

I am glad you wrote Sis.  Sorry it took me so long to find your post before. You say you are completely happy sitting home.  how do you support yourself.  Maybe you could try maybe one day a week going somewhere or doing some volunteer work for those less needy. Maybe it would help you to begin to trust a little.  I too have problems with trust.  I have had many hurts and pain in  my life and don't want to go through that again.  As I said before most really shy people internalized everything.  Others who are outgoing external things.  We dwell on things and think people won;t like us, we are afraid to speak and so something stupid.  We get hurt easily because we feel others put us down. And a lot of times they do, they say "Why are you so quiet" and things like that.  Well God made us like that, along with environmental and social influences and child abuse and neglect for many of us.  I just hope that you can start a little at a time, going outside, smell the air, the flowers.  It is here for all of us.  Keep writing .   Praying for you.

[GOD]

Hey there, Sis!

You probably don't know me, but I'm going to write a little "book" back at ya'....

I'm going to start with saying that I read both of your long posts, and I am amazed at how much you are like I was in your thinking!  At the age of 33, I am only just now figuring out how to deal with people, and to live and enjoy life without alcohol or drugs.  Just like you said, I had always believed myself to be a great judge of character, and I could always see through People's outer fa

[Sis1]

Hey Sugar! Thanks for showing interest in my story!
I'd have to say the computer is the main cause my anxiety. I've always been quite shy, when you turn 18, it's not considered shy anymore, you automatically have "issues".

When I was around the age of 13, I was sent to an Alternative School. I ended up getting myself placed on "Inschool detention" where they placed me in the basement of the old run-down school. I was denied all verbal communications with all the other students and didn't have much contact with anyone throughout the school day. Alot of people ask me if that's illegal or some form of abuse, well..I don't know, but it certainly did mess me up. A few years later I was diagnosed as being "oppositional" which may have explained why I never tried working my way out of inschool detention. I was in the basement of that school for two years straight. I did no school work and had virtually no contact with the other students. School days are quite long, and that's along time to be sitting alone doing nothing.

It also gave me alot of time to sit back and observe people, listen. You'd be amazed the things you see and hear when you don't talk. Today, I'm an extremely good judge of character. Which sometimes does not work to my benifit. I can see right through the pathetic fronts people put on and often times know them for who they really are. I don't really like that. It makes it difficult to sit down with even a therapist without being able to see that they don't really care or don't really want to be there. That's the case with alot of people. And sometimes I wish I didn't have that ability.

As far as my parents being supportive. Well, I love them both. But they both have/had problems of their own. I live with my mom, who is a really bad alcoholic. She struggles with bills, which I am now starting to see as an adult. I also see the way she is ruining her mind and body, the things she says to me when she's drunk. It's terrible. The way I feel she failed me as a parent. When I was sitting in my room, for hours, days on end on the computer...and she never acted. To this day that still bothers me. I don't know what I expected her to do, and well it's too late now, but in someway I feel she failed to act as a parent.

My dad, well I'm daddy's little angel. I'd never bother him with my problems. I love him alot and I know he loves me too, but he never did much emotionally other then send my mom a check every weekend. He is a recovered alcoholic and has always delt drugs, (mainly weed). He took me every weekend and gave me some of the best childhood memories I have and those memories will be with me forever, as far as I am concerned, he was a wonderful dad. He's just not the brightest dad, hehe, a living example too much weed can make ya a little slow!

I know! I'm babbling on here, But you wanted to know my story! Bet ya didn't think i'd write ya a book! hehe, sorry. My MAIN cause of anxiety is this DAMN computer. From the day I got it and dropped out of school at the begining of my freshman year, I've been glued to it. I ended up finding awhole group of kids just like me. Maybe hard to believe for you guys, but that group consisted of hackers. It was a whole clan of teens just like me, who seemed to have problems just like me and who were lashing out in a way that really couldn't hurt anyone...just like me. We formed groups, made handles (my handle is sis!) and close friendships formed. I basically traded my life in for the internet. Those friendships have lasted...7 years later. The thing is, they all seem to be growing up and getting on with life, getting over their childish activities on the internet. When I finally woke up and realized I'd missed out on 7-8 years of the real world...I don't know, it's like the world kept going and didn't wait up for me.

Ya know, I didn't spend my entire teen years isolated in my room, I have gone out and done the partying/friend thing. I've also had alot of terrible things happen to me, and i've gotten over those things. This anxiety is not something I can get over. There's no way I can go out and get a job. No way. If I had a vicodin for everyday that I had to work, I'd be a workaholic. But as I come to the reality of alot of things, I also come to the reality that this addiction is eventually going to kill me. If my doctors aren't going to prescribe me something that is actually gonna work, what am I gonna do? Ya know? I am constantly analyzing people, trying to think about what they are thinking, it drives me crazy. I'd rather not have anything to do with it. People are always hurting and betraying me, screw that, I know that's the way this world works, and I'm fine with that, I'm perfectly happy sitting home as long as I have DRUGSSSS! But those days I don't have drugs, argh, it's like you continue to hit rock bottom, and the bottom just keeps caving in. but that's just the way my life is. I do have goals, and I would love to be sucessful, normal...I don't know, I have babbled on WAY too much. But it feels good to spill your guts and have there be a chance people will actually read it! If you did read this, and you'd like to reply, please do, all comments and suggestions are more then welcome. again, Sorry I've wrote so much.

[Sugarbeens]

Hi Sis I.  It took me a while to find your comment.  I wanted to answer before, but, forgot where it was.  How long have yu had severe anxiety. I have had it from childhood until now.  Unlike you, I was forced to work from age 10 , so I never had anyone to take care of me, but, me.  You must live with your parents who are supportive, or do you.  I know you won't believe this, but, you can get out there too.  I have had major problems since a little girl, that no one recognized but me, so I pretended and still do to be someone I am not.  And yes, painkillers at age 40 made me feel I could do anything.  I even got divorced.  I am just a severely shy, antisocial, social phobic person.  All my life I wish I could be like others who could talk to anyone, but, I internalize everything and think people really won't like me.  I have a MSW degree, I forced myself to do this to prove to myself that I could do it and that I could work.  It is hard many times just to get up and go to work.  I wake up with butterflies in my belly, but, I still do it.  Because you see, I have children and I never want them to be unhealthy and as long as I appear healthy and they don't know all this, than maybe they will have a better chance.  I love my children more than anything in this world, and would give my life for them.  I would like to hear from you again and know your story.  What happened to make you so shy and have so much anxiety.  Looking forward to hearing from you or anyone else going through this.

[Phillygal]

Thank you for the clarification on that Alexandra.  I do know that one of the percs has ASA and the other tylenol, just was not sure which one.

And, ASA, in too much, can cause kidney problems as well as stomach problems (ulcers, gastric reflux...)

Thanks for the compliment hellbent....I do alot of reading and being in the medical field as well as being addicted to Lorcet, I stuffed my head with knowledge.  I am not trying to come across as a Know it All, but I am trying to share what I know..

Hope everyone is doing well...Keep up the smiles, keep up the faith and keep posting.

PS, I read that some of you snort the Lorcet.  Does this give you more of a buzz than swallowing 6 at a time? I remember when I got a decent buzz (and a damn clean house) after 2 pills, now, at 6, the buzz is short and the time and pain of withdraw is horrible...

PGAL

[vikequeen]

When I first started using /abusing painkillers, I could clean my house like a demon and was very productive but that too ends after time now I just kick back also. Everything wears off over time, I remember taking like 6 vikes all at once and getting the most incredible euphoric rush, not now just the warm fuzzies, I miss that rush ! lol

[hellbent]

Yea, thinking back I think that I became real slothful once I started taking them multiple times daily. Still rermember the day I decided to take 4 percs at 10:am. Things began to unravel then I think.

I do remember using in "moderation" and doing ok. I'd go to work, maybe work out, then take one dose around 6pm, and feel great.

[hellbent]

I never got a cold or anyhting when on opiates. It's tripped me out for a long time. I was sick in the head, but never caught anything, for years.

As far as having increased productivity while using, I know nothing about that. When I am using opiates, all I ever want to do is go home and kick back.

[Sis1]

HEY!!!!! I am so happy to see the question about the liver thing! I've been really paranoid lately about all the prescription pain killers I do and what it is doing to my liver! I'm only 20 years old and I've been addicted to pain killers for approximately two years. I can't remember the last time I went a day without snorting atleast 2-3 pills. The thing I was worried about is I mix them, I take anything and everything, If it's darvocet i've got my hands on, I have to take atleast 8 of them to get off. I'll snort a couple tylox, pop a few vicoprofin, percocet, vicodin, roxicodone, oxycontin, tylenol 3's. Tylenol 3's do me no good, but sometimes it's just the craving of snorting something up your nose. Speaking of that, can snorting all this junk up my nose have any affect on it? I know it sounds gross but what if it's eating through it or something! I don't know, these are just questions I don't feel comfortable asking my doctor, mainly because it will ruin my chances of getting more! I did goto my doctor recently and I'm HOPING he preformed a test that will check to see if my liver is OK. I'll get into that in a moment. I just read a story about a lady who goes "doctor shopping" LOL, She searches through the phone book and looks for doctors she hasn't seen yet so she can get prescription pain killers. Reminded me of myself. I don't search through the phone book, but I do switch on and off from different emergency rooms. I'm amazed at all the pain killers I get, sometimes I get stocked up enough to last me weeks. I don't leave the house until I need more. Don't get me wrong, I hate this whole situation, being addicted to something is not fun... as some of you probably know. But I do have severe anxiety and pain killers seem to help me out alot with that. Awhile back I discovered "Ultram" I don't know if any of you have ever heard of that, but it's not real popular yet because they can still legally sell it over the internet. It's amazing. Three of them will send you for a loop. It gives you a feeling of self content, makes me not hate everyone so much, I can sleep on them great, I wake up several times through out the night and am really, really happy, it's not like when you wake up all groggy and bitchy, you wake up and you're immediately happy...I also have awesome dreams on them. They have the same effect as any other pain killer would, but I guess they are just more readily available. I'm sure that won't last long. Anyway, My addiction didn't get bad until I got my wisdom teeth out. I was prescribed tylox, you have no idea how long I got pain killers out of them. THREE months after they were removed I was still calling them up "Hi my teeth hurt" Boom - Another prescription of Vicodin or Vicoprofin, it literally worked for months until someone obviously gave it a second thought before filling me out another prescription. Since then it's been terrible, I have no urge what so ever to do anything unless I am "groovin" as we call it here. I don't even want to get out of bed if I don't have a bottle of pain killers to get up to. Alot of people would say (obviously) addiction treatment. But I'm not like everyone else, I'm anti-social and have real bad anxiety. I don't work, never had a job in my life (I know! I'm 20 years old!) I've tried to goto my doctors and explain my situation in reference to my anxiety, but they don't want to prescribe me anything that might actually work, the ***** sent me away with a prescription for prozac. I know what works, obviously because I've experimented with enough drugs to know. I don't expect to be given a bottle of Hydrocodone for anxiety, but I know I do need something that will go into immediate effect, and that's not my addiction talking. But it's not like I can just say "Hey, Doc, I think I need some Valium, I've took them off the streets and I know they'll work!" Oh well, It just seems like a no win situation to me. But hey! I'll get back to the topic! I've really babbled on here! After getting a wakeup call when I went to the E.R in an attempt to get a quick-fix, they decided to give me a 'spinal tap' (at the time I didn't care because they had just gave me a shot of demerol for a headache I never really had) But the spinal tap messed up, and I started leaking spinal fluid, which resulted in a REAL unbareable headache. I had to go through a week of emergency/doctor visits until they finally fixed it with a blood patch. I know, I know, I deserved it, but it really made me think. This sucks, what am I doing to myself? I got to thinking all these years, nonstop use of opiates, my liver has GOT to be damaged! So I went to my primary care doctor and gave him some symptoms that I really do have(lack of energy, loss of memory, sleeping alot), hoping maybe he'd catch on to something, of course not that I was addicted to pills, but something that would result in him checking my liver. Now, I have no clue how they would go about checking ones liver for damage that may have occured from abusing prescription drugs, but they took blood, and the nurse that took it said something about my liver. I asked her "They can check your liver by just taking blood?" and she replied "Yes" My question is, what exactly can taking and mixing opiates like that do to your health? Mainly your liver, I'd like to know exactly the harmfulness it can have on it and how I would go about being tested for it. What do they test for when you goto the doctors, how are the tests conducted and what are the symptoms you would have to have inorder for a medical doctor to even consider checking to make sure your liver is functioning properly/healthy? Do you think the blood test I took will show anything that I might have done to my liver by taking prescription drugs? PLEASE let me know!!! I'd appreciate very, very much! I might not come back to this website, so if you could, along with posting your response here if you'd like, could you please E-Mail me your comments/answers? I can be contacted at ***@****

[fishman59]

Funny you guys should bring up this tylenol thing- I was taking a little over 10000mgs. day for about 9 years,and considerably more for 16 years prior to that. I recently had a liver function test done and it came back clean,2 days ago the doctor called and said the lab messed up my  results and wanted to see me. I went in today and was told that due to the findings he was sending me to the cancer clinic for some tests on my liver. So yeah tylenol does do damage. It certainly seemed strange to me that all this happened after I stopped taking the tylenol, I had no pain or symptoms prior to my doctor putting me on straight codeine...maybe the tylenol was shielding an illness that I otherwise would have known about long before this, maybe the tylenol caused it in some unknown way but whatever this is inside me the 25 years of drug abuse certainly hasn't helped me!!!

[AlexisInTx]

When I was experiencing the pain associated with my herniated disks (which is manageable now with OTC meds), I was looking online, and found the wonderful world of OP's.  It was like opening a pandora's box, for me at the time.  I think in some instances, that these could be a blessing but in other instances a curse.  

Some of them operate 'within' the realm of legality (some don't), but are monitored by the DEA.  There are OP (online physician) closures always occurring, and changes being implemented due to changes in the law in regard to "doctor/patient" relationships.  Since all prescribing is done online, there is no face-to-face relationship between doc and patient.  How these OP's skirt this ambiguous law is by requiring medical records of the patient, or by a port-a-medic, which will actually come to your house and take vitals, etc., and then report back to the online doctor.  In the case of them requiring medical records (which I have pages of) all you do is fax them a copy of your physician's exam, which would include why you need to be prescribed the meds you've requested (in my case, Schedule II meds).  

I also didn't know about OP's until a year ago.  It's amazing what they have on the net nowadays.

[memikey]

Cool, Alexis, I never knew that about "Norcs" ... heck never even heard of them until I came to this site.  Oh, by the way, what was that you were saying about "online physicians"?  Are you saying that it's easy to get prescribed narcotics over the internet?

Not that it would matter for me, mind you ... being an addict, I lost all credit card priveledges a long time ago ... along with a beautiful $250,000 home and the coolest stripper ***** girlfriend a guy/fetishist could ever ask for.  Cheers!

--memikey

[AlexisInTx]

memikey, I hear you.  But that low dosage acetaminophen 10/650 is pretty high, eh?  I use(d) the 10/325 Norc's.

And about the productivity at work, play, whatever, that's probably the main motivation for these drugs for me.  My house is spotless, my work is done early and even enjoyed, I work out like a fiend, but I know ultimately that I'm doing harm to my organs, that's my motivation to quit.  With online physicians, it's always a temptation, however, and I'm having a mighty big problem with trying to get off this **** completely.

[memikey]

Phillygal,

You made me laugh just now after reading about all those liver tests you can have done ... not because it isn't true, but because I'm such a pill head and come up with so many different "illnesses" to get my dope that my entire body gets a thorough workup at least once each (addicted) year.

Now adding to this thread, and being a chronic hydrocodone user (abuser?) off and on for many years, I firmly believe that, free of any added substances such as tylenol, prolonged use of hydrocodone (at reasonable levels) would not have any long-term adverse affects on the human body.  Oh, and by the way, I always try to score the least-tylenol-containing forms of hydrocodone, such as 10/650's ... double the pleasure with nearly half the grunge.  (I try to keep a respectable 50mg a day habit, for both financial and practical purposes).

It could just be the addict in me talking here, but why does it seem I NEVER get a cold or flu when I'm on a prolonged hydrocodone binge, and am always twice as productive (and energetic) at work?  Am I alone here on this, or what?  Come on, let's see some hands!  I mean, if it weren't for the legalities and difficulties of getting hydrocodone, I might never have been motivated to ever quit in the past.

The first time I quit way back when was when I (stupidly) moved to a state where hydrocodone is practically a sin to prescribe, and so I had no choice but to go cold turkey (Washington state addicts know exactly what I'm talking about).  And the second time was, well ... let's just say I had a little help from about 40 federal agents converging on my house: they took me to a place where they promised "Vicodins grew on trees" ... except there were no trees.  Just lots and lots of concrete and a bar on every corner (can you say "Big House?).

Anyway, do you get the idea I'm bored?  Why can't they make this site more interactive and start a chat room?  :-)  Cheers!

--memikey

[hellbent]

That was a hell of an informative post. Thanks.

[Nod]

Hello from fellow Philly person/addict.  Thanks for posting the info on tylenol and liver damage.  From the research I have done etc your answer backs up all that I have read.  I'm 5+ months clean but for about 2-3 yrs was exceeding the 4000mg, in the 6000-10000 range a day and alcohol about every 2-3 days on top of it. Surely was on a bad path.  More reason to keep up the fight to stay clean.   Thanks, NOD

[alexandra_r]

I just looked it up through MedNet and it is true--percodan is with aspirin (which is not damaging on the liver but can be very hard on you stomach) and percocet is made with acetimenophen (hard on your liver AND kidneys).  I quote you from MedNet:

Brand name:
Percocet
Pronounced: PERK-o-set
Generic ingredients: Acetaminophen, Oxycodone hydrochloride
Other brand names: Roxicet, Tylox

[alexandra_r]

actually, I think that percodan is aspirin based and percoset is acetimenophen based.  just my 2 cents.

[Yo_Tony]

Liver function test will determine whether you've got a problem, but I'm not an acetaminophen fan. People who take too much Vicodin and Percoset probably run more of a risk from the acetaminophen.

Please send your weather out our way. Have forgotten what rain looks like...even which direction it falls. Gad, I despise the sun. I wish I could go for the rest of my life without seeing it directly. Nice, dark, low-flying clouds and lots of mist and drizzle, drenching rain. That's MY kind of weather.

Tony

[Phillygal]

Hi!

Percocet has an active ingredient of aspirin in it instead of acetaminophen.  BUT, too much aspirin can cause kidney (renal) failure/damage.  So, not matter what our 'vice' somewhere, somehow, we are doing damage to something.

PGal