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Damage to our livers?
by ChiTownGirl, Aug 22, 2002 12:00AM
Hey everyone, I am in one of my paranoid moods this morning, and besides the weather here in Chicago is really crappy, raining and flooding.
My question for the day is - How do we know if we've done damage to our livers from taking all the pain meds that we do? I wonder about that everyday, especially since I abuse T3's. For instance, I took 12 of them yesterday, although not all at one time I space them out throughout the day.
I have been feeling really sick lately, throwing up alot in the morning, yellow bile stuff, headaches and general tiredness and am wondering if I have done irreversible damage to my liver.
I am going to make an appointment with my doc to see if she can perform a liver test on me to see what Ive done to myself.
Anyone else out there worried about doing damage to your livers?
Thanks for all replies. ChiTownGirl.
My question for the day is - How do we know if we've done damage to our livers from taking all the pain meds that we do? I wonder about that everyday, especially since I abuse T3's. For instance, I took 12 of them yesterday, although not all at one time I space them out throughout the day.
I have been feeling really sick lately, throwing up alot in the morning, yellow bile stuff, headaches and general tiredness and am wondering if I have done irreversible damage to my liver.
I am going to make an appointment with my doc to see if she can perform a liver test on me to see what Ive done to myself.
Anyone else out there worried about doing damage to your livers?
Thanks for all replies. ChiTownGirl.
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The total dosage of acetaminophen (tylenol) should not exceed 4000 mg in a 24 hour period. If one takes 20 Lorcet (10/650) a day, your tylenol intake is 13,000 which is 3+ times the total reccomended dose.
From the reading that I have done and the reports that I have seen, overdosing your liver with too much tylenol can do more damage then a heavy drinker who takes no tylenol.
Fortunately, the liver is an organ that has the ability to repair itself, if the damage is not too severe and is caught early.
You can ask your doctor to run a LFT (liver function test) and a CHP (complete hepatic panel). If your liver enzymes are extremely elevated (more than 3 times the upper limit of normal is considered severe), then you better be prepared to tell your doctor (if he/she asks) what you have been up to. AND, if they are at a critical level, this is telling you that your liver is irritated, inflamed and is not in great shape.
Like I said, the liver can repair itself, but not if we continue to abuse it. The elevated liver enzymes is a late sign, usually indicating that some damage has been done already. If your tests come back and they are ok, this does not mean that you are not hurting your liver, it means that your liver is still compensating and is 'handling' the damage. But, it won't for long. So as I know and as I need to do, try to cut back on what you are doing and if you are taking alot of meds that have tylenol in it, DO NOT drink alcohol as this increases the liklihood of doing damage.
If your liver tests come back high, this is a sign that you are heading down a path of irreversible damage. Cutting back on the tylenol, the alcohol, drinking lots of water and taking care of you, is the best way to help mend a liver and a soul.
This scares me too and at 33, I do not want a liver transplant by the time I am 34.
Good luck and write me if you need anymore help or have any more questions.
I am in the same boat and am battling the same problem..
PGal
SFCPLT.
Percocet has an active ingredient of aspirin in it instead of acetaminophen. BUT, too much aspirin can cause kidney (renal) failure/damage. So, not matter what our 'vice' somewhere, somehow, we are doing damage to something.
PGal
Please send your weather out our way. Have forgotten what rain looks like...even which direction it falls. Gad, I despise the sun. I wish I could go for the rest of my life without seeing it directly. Nice, dark, low-flying clouds and lots of mist and drizzle, drenching rain. That's MY kind of weather.
Tony
Brand name:
Percocet
Pronounced: PERK-o-set
Generic ingredients: Acetaminophen, Oxycodone hydrochloride
Other brand names: Roxicet, Tylox
You made me laugh just now after reading about all those liver tests you can have done ... not because it isn't true, but because I'm such a pill head and come up with so many different "illnesses" to get my dope that my entire body gets a thorough workup at least once each (addicted) year.
Now adding to this thread, and being a chronic hydrocodone user (abuser?) off and on for many years, I firmly believe that, free of any added substances such as tylenol, prolonged use of hydrocodone (at reasonable levels) would not have any long-term adverse affects on the human body. Oh, and by the way, I always try to score the least-tylenol-containing forms of hydrocodone, such as 10/650's ... double the pleasure with nearly half the grunge. (I try to keep a respectable 50mg a day habit, for both financial and practical purposes).
It could just be the addict in me talking here, but why does it seem I NEVER get a cold or flu when I'm on a prolonged hydrocodone binge, and am always twice as productive (and energetic) at work? Am I alone here on this, or what? Come on, let's see some hands! I mean, if it weren't for the legalities and difficulties of getting hydrocodone, I might never have been motivated to ever quit in the past.
The first time I quit way back when was when I (stupidly) moved to a state where hydrocodone is practically a sin to prescribe, and so I had no choice but to go cold turkey (Washington state addicts know exactly what I'm talking about). And the second time was, well ... let's just say I had a little help from about 40 federal agents converging on my house: they took me to a place where they promised "Vicodins grew on trees" ... except there were no trees. Just lots and lots of concrete and a bar on every corner (can you say "Big House?).
Anyway, do you get the idea I'm bored? Why can't they make this site more interactive and start a chat room? :-) Cheers!
--memikey
And about the productivity at work, play, whatever, that's probably the main motivation for these drugs for me. My house is spotless, my work is done early and even enjoyed, I work out like a fiend, but I know ultimately that I'm doing harm to my organs, that's my motivation to quit. With online physicians, it's always a temptation, however, and I'm having a mighty big problem with trying to get off this **** completely.
Not that it would matter for me, mind you ... being an addict, I lost all credit card priveledges a long time ago ... along with a beautiful $250,000 home and the coolest stripper ***** girlfriend a guy/fetishist could ever ask for. Cheers!
--memikey
Some of them operate 'within' the realm of legality (some don't), but are monitored by the DEA. There are OP (online physician) closures always occurring, and changes being implemented due to changes in the law in regard to "doctor/patient" relationships. Since all prescribing is done online, there is no face-to-face relationship between doc and patient. How these OP's skirt this ambiguous law is by requiring medical records of the patient, or by a port-a-medic, which will actually come to your house and take vitals, etc., and then report back to the online doctor. In the case of them requiring medical records (which I have pages of) all you do is fax them a copy of your physician's exam, which would include why you need to be prescribed the meds you've requested (in my case, Schedule II meds).
I also didn't know about OP's until a year ago. It's amazing what they have on the net nowadays.
As far as having increased productivity while using, I know nothing about that. When I am using opiates, all I ever want to do is go home and kick back.
I do remember using in "moderation" and doing ok. I'd go to work, maybe work out, then take one dose around 6pm, and feel great.
And, ASA, in too much, can cause kidney problems as well as stomach problems (ulcers, gastric reflux...)
Thanks for the compliment hellbent....I do alot of reading and being in the medical field as well as being addicted to Lorcet, I stuffed my head with knowledge. I am not trying to come across as a Know it All, but I am trying to share what I know..
Hope everyone is doing well...Keep up the smiles, keep up the faith and keep posting.
PS, I read that some of you snort the Lorcet. Does this give you more of a buzz than swallowing 6 at a time? I remember when I got a decent buzz (and a damn clean house) after 2 pills, now, at 6, the buzz is short and the time and pain of withdraw is horrible...
PGAL
I'd have to say the computer is the main cause my anxiety. I've always been quite shy, when you turn 18, it's not considered shy anymore, you automatically have "issues".
When I was around the age of 13, I was sent to an Alternative School. I ended up getting myself placed on "Inschool detention" where they placed me in the basement of the old run-down school. I was denied all verbal communications with all the other students and didn't have much contact with anyone throughout the school day. Alot of people ask me if that's illegal or some form of abuse, well..I don't know, but it certainly did mess me up. A few years later I was diagnosed as being "oppositional" which may have explained why I never tried working my way out of inschool detention. I was in the basement of that school for two years straight. I did no school work and had virtually no contact with the other students. School days are quite long, and that's along time to be sitting alone doing nothing.
It also gave me alot of time to sit back and observe people, listen. You'd be amazed the things you see and hear when you don't talk. Today, I'm an extremely good judge of character. Which sometimes does not work to my benifit. I can see right through the pathetic fronts people put on and often times know them for who they really are. I don't really like that. It makes it difficult to sit down with even a therapist without being able to see that they don't really care or don't really want to be there. That's the case with alot of people. And sometimes I wish I didn't have that ability.
As far as my parents being supportive. Well, I love them both. But they both have/had problems of their own. I live with my mom, who is a really bad alcoholic. She struggles with bills, which I am now starting to see as an adult. I also see the way she is ruining her mind and body, the things she says to me when she's drunk. It's terrible. The way I feel she failed me as a parent. When I was sitting in my room, for hours, days on end on the computer...and she never acted. To this day that still bothers me. I don't know what I expected her to do, and well it's too late now, but in someway I feel she failed to act as a parent.
My dad, well I'm daddy's little angel. I'd never bother him with my problems. I love him alot and I know he loves me too, but he never did much emotionally other then send my mom a check every weekend. He is a recovered alcoholic and has always delt drugs, (mainly weed). He took me every weekend and gave me some of the best childhood memories I have and those memories will be with me forever, as far as I am concerned, he was a wonderful dad. He's just not the brightest dad, hehe, a living example too much weed can make ya a little slow!
I know! I'm babbling on here, But you wanted to know my story! Bet ya didn't think i'd write ya a book! hehe, sorry. My MAIN cause of anxiety is this DAMN computer. From the day I got it and dropped out of school at the begining of my freshman year, I've been glued to it. I ended up finding awhole group of kids just like me. Maybe hard to believe for you guys, but that group consisted of hackers. It was a whole clan of teens just like me, who seemed to have problems just like me and who were lashing out in a way that really couldn't hurt anyone...just like me. We formed groups, made handles (my handle is sis!) and close friendships formed. I basically traded my life in for the internet. Those friendships have lasted...7 years later. The thing is, they all seem to be growing up and getting on with life, getting over their childish activities on the internet. When I finally woke up and realized I'd missed out on 7-8 years of the real world...I don't know, it's like the world kept going and didn't wait up for me.
Ya know, I didn't spend my entire teen years isolated in my room, I have gone out and done the partying/friend thing. I've also had alot of terrible things happen to me, and i've gotten over those things. This anxiety is not something I can get over. There's no way I can go out and get a job. No way. If I had a vicodin for everyday that I had to work, I'd be a workaholic. But as I come to the reality of alot of things, I also come to the reality that this addiction is eventually going to kill me. If my doctors aren't going to prescribe me something that is actually gonna work, what am I gonna do? Ya know? I am constantly analyzing people, trying to think about what they are thinking, it drives me crazy. I'd rather not have anything to do with it. People are always hurting and betraying me, screw that, I know that's the way this world works, and I'm fine with that, I'm perfectly happy sitting home as long as I have DRUGSSSS! But those days I don't have drugs, argh, it's like you continue to hit rock bottom, and the bottom just keeps caving in. but that's just the way my life is. I do have goals, and I would love to be sucessful, normal...I don't know, I have babbled on WAY too much. But it feels good to spill your guts and have there be a chance people will actually read it! If you did read this, and you'd like to reply, please do, all comments and suggestions are more then welcome. again, Sorry I've wrote so much.
You probably don't know me, but I'm going to write a little "book" back at ya'....
I'm going to start with saying that I read both of your long posts, and I am amazed at how much you are like I was in your thinking! At the age of 33, I am only just now figuring out how to deal with people, and to live and enjoy life without alcohol or drugs. Just like you said, I had always believed myself to be a great judge of character, and I could always see through People's outer façade. I thought that I could see their ulterior motives-and I thought to myself, "What a bunch of worthless wastes of humanity these people are! This human race is populated with fools..."
As you had said in your posts, I too, was an Internet junkie. When I got home from my college classes, I cracked open a few beers, started surfing the net, and proceeded to get drunk angry and frustrated with people. I had a small group of friends on Internet, and I chose my peers based upon their beliefs (as long as they thought the same way I did, they could have the honor of being my friend). I look back, and think to myself, "what sick thinking I used to have. I wasn't even living then!"
My addiction has\had always was alcohol. I was one sick puppy! The last two years of my drinking consisted of getting home from work at 5, turning on the TV or computer, drinking a 1.75 liter bottle of vodka mixed with lemonade, getting angrier by the hour, and finally passing out between 10 and 11 PM. In that I would repeat this day after day after day. By the time two of my friends had committed suicide (both were alcoholics with a massive drinking problem like me), I finally checked to myself into inpatient rehab. And thank God it did work! Through this treatment, I finally learned how to trust people. You know, that was my biggest problem.... And I believe it is the problem of most addicts and alcoholics. I go to Alcoholics Anonymous and narcotics anonymous meetings at least once a week; and it's not so much going to prevent me from drinking or using drugs, but I choose to go for the face to face human interaction in those meetings. When you attend meetings where everybody is being totally honest to each other, and nobody judges each other, you can't help starting to feel a sense of trust and positivity towards others.
In a sense, this addiction board (medhelp.org) is very much like one of those 12-step meetings. Reading, and relating to others on this board who have problems similar to yourself really does help you towards the right path to recovery. Keep checking back here and post as often as you can, for getting all of this stuff off your chest really helps. And as you have posted a couple *large* posts, I'm sure you are reaping the benefits of relating your story to all of us. Doesn't that feel good to put your thoughts in to writing? With your personality, I believe that some good old-fashioned face to face meetings would benefit you the most. I am not trying to be "preachy" about Alcoholics Anonymous or narcotics anonymous, but if you have the time, it may be worth your while the check it out. I was amazed at the people who attend the meetings--it turns out that most alcoholics and addicts are the warmest and most compassionate people you could ever hope to meet! (And they're quite intelligent as well).
See, Sis? It looks like I wrote a book too!
I always wanted a little sister; so if you're not too busy, could you be mine?
Love and hope for you,
Jess
PS - If you want to talk in private, or have any questions about anything I said, you may e-mail me at the following address: ***@****
Thank you very much for posting back to me and sharing a little about yourself, that was nice of you! You always hear "YOU'VE GOT TO WANT HELP TO GET IT!" especially when someone is telling you about rehab. I have a few MAJOR setbacks when it comes to getting help. When I get time, I'm going to try to post a topic on getting rehab and maybe get some answers/suggestions about this problem. This post is kinda way down the line & I don't think many people read it! The biggest thing that seems to be holding me back is my anxiety, (Sugar, you might be able to relate to this) I couldn't picture myself having to sit in a room full of people and socialize! :::screams::: OK, So I'm a little melodramatic. But that's nothing ~
I'm also on probation (I told you I didn't spend my WHOLE life in my room!) I've been on for a year & a half. I really don't know what my probation officer would think about me going to REHAB half way through my probation, especially when one of the most important conditions of my probo is to NOT do drugs or alcohol. I don't want to trigger any more random drugs tests or suspicions. I just successfully manipulated my way through a drug evaluation, so I have her convinced I've changed my ways. I mean that's not my biggest issue, I'm sure I could keep it from her, but it's certainly something I'm concerned about.
My MAIN concern is my record. I do have goals, and I hope I can eventually fulfill those goals. but I know how things work and I'm very concerned. My career of interest is Law. I'm a certified Private Investigator, so I know the licensing requirements for something like that. Being a PI is just one of the things on my list. I know they check your medical/legal record very good before considering anything. The legal part is not a problem because I plan on getting my record expunged (cleared) when I'm off probation. But as far as the medical part goes, if you want to be considered for the job, you have to sign a release agreement so that your medical history can be reviewed. Any stays in a mental hospital or signs of drug addiction will most likely have an impact on whether or not you you get the job or fit the licensing requirements. You have to be a stable person to be involved in Law Enforcement or anything that involves helping people. and once I get myself helped, that's something I might consider doing (helping other people!)
It might sound like I'm over exaggerating on the thing about having to be stable when getting a job that involves helping people, but I think we all know the reality of this situation. I was watching paramedics last night and one of the first things the EMS guy said when he brought the patient into the hospital is "He has a history of drug/alcohol abuse, he's been clean 10 years" I thought 'Jesus, it's still being brought up 10 years later' I mean I can understand, it was probably a precaution so they didn't fill him up with a vile of morphine or something.
But, I know for a fact admitting to having a history of drug/alcohol problems can effect you in a lot of places in life. Try getting a job as a pharmacist with a medical record that states you were an addict. It's a great thing to have the will power to be able to get help, and I envy the people with the self-confidence to be able to do that. But I know personally the setbacks it can have on your life if you have certain interests.
Oh my God! I've wrote another book! I'm sorry I just get carried away! Yea I know - Maybe I should get a diary, hehe. Anyway, any suggestions or comments are welcome and will be appreciated very much. Again, Jesse and Sugar, thank you very much for your replies. Jesse it made me giggle when I pictured you online shitting on all the internet geeks. hehe. Sugar, that's wonderful you care so much about your children, I'm sure you're very grateful to have something so special to live for and I'm sure they are very grateful for having you! OK! I have to force myself to stop typing ~ I'm stealing all the post space!! Replies may be posted here or E-mailed to me at ***@****
chill on the pills, ask your parents for help. If you're very addicted and really do want help, you'd be amazed the rehab's you can goto for FREE because your a juvenile. Beautiful places, that's one thing I regret not doing as a juvenile. I still have the brochures for them, what was I thinking!!!
You'll be OK! - Sis