Day 1 - (started Suboxone) and confused

[Whenwillitend]

Good Morning Folks!

Well, today is my first day on Suboxone. I started off taking 1 8mg -- then 2 hours later took another 1/4 (total of 10mg). I'm feeling "ok". I state "ok", because I'm definately not having any WD (Hurray!), but I do feel a bit spaced out (this is much better than feeling dead though!). :)

Anyway - I am a bit confused/torn. I went and spilled the beans to my Dr - he was very understanding (he also happens to support Suboxone treatment, very convenient -- no out of pocket $$), and agreed I'm better off, getting off opiates. I told him what I had taken this AM (from a Rx from another Dr last year), he stated I should go with 8mg/day.

So I ask him how many days before I should cut down - and by how much...

He stated not to cut down, just to stay on the 8mg/day.

I told him I wanted to be off opiates completely.

He stated that with my condition, I will need some kind of pain management.

I argued a bit, stating I wanted off, and I'll try steroid treatments instead -- anyway, I finally got him to agree and to do a taper. However, here's the scary part...

He wants me to take 8mg for 3 weeks - then come back and we'll work on what to drop down to next and for how long.

Isn't that a Really BAD idea??? I was under the impression that if you take suboxone for a long time, the WDs were pretty bad and lasted forever..?? I expressed my concern to my Dr and he stated if you take it for a long time, that you will have WDs from suboxone - but he didn't seem to think it would be any worse than just going CT from normal opiates. He believes if you taper long enough and slow enough, you should have very little to no WDs.

Is he wrong??? Could he be right and I'm just paranoid due to a few people that it didn't work out for? Anyone think I should just try to do a 2-3 week taper on my own??

Say I do a 2 week taper and I'm feeling bad, I'd always have the option to continue the treatment and work with it his way, but I really don't want to mess my system up. I've read that every time you go through WDs it causes very minor damage to the brain -- my fear is, that this will add up over time -- I've gone through full blown WDs probably 20x from 3 days to a month. I don't think my poor brain can handle any more damage (hah).

Any suggestions? -- Sorry if I seem to be freaking out, I just want my life back. :(

[Tree7777]

Wow so you are the one I should be asking! I have been on this crap for 5 years and want off doc just smiles and gives me a script so I need to do it my self just don't know how please help you seem to know ALOT more than me and of course I'm scared of DT. I AM A mom and wife and have a job so any help I would be greatful thank you so much

[wait2long]

i am the only one that even mentioned anything to him hun...i give him all the credit in the world for doing whatever he is doing...and i didnt find my post to be harsh, i know where this info came from and its not accurate, just stated so.  i am going to send you a PM if that is ok...

[Army220]

I think you guys are a little harsh or maybe a little defensive on Nu Man.  The guy is well on to a clean road to recovery without anything.  Give him Credit for that.

Maybee he knows something we don't know.  Everybody is different.

My doc refused to put me on SUB.  He used to moonlight at a detox center before his private practice.  Hmmm.  He must of new something about me and why he chose not to use it on me.  

He said due to the type of person I was Clondidine and Gabapentin will work for ya.

Believe me it is working after being 3 years on Vikes.

Thats why say again Everyone is different.

Now to Whenwillitend.  I hope whatever you decide to do works best for you.

We will get thru the ups and downs.  Good Luck!

[wait2long]

the sweating is a normal side effect and will subside with time...if you have any questions...let us know...
WE ARE HERE TO HELP NOT HINDER...
good luck to you!!

[Whenwillitend]

Thanks for all the replies folks - it means alot to me - I love feeling like I have my own little focus group. It helps alot - but I guess you all know that already.

Btw - an update, mentally I am feeling MUCH better. I feel 'ok' physically -- I'm sweating more than normally, and my legs/back are SORE, but truth be told, I feel wonderful knowing I'm starting my life all over again (I swear I was going to accidently OD on my DOC).

Oh - for those that asked:
My DOC is Vicodin 10/325 (Norco) -- however my dosing the last 6 weeks has been:
80mg of Oxycodone (straight) the second I woke up -- then I'd take 20-30mg every 4 hours afterwards for the next 12 hours -- totalling 120 on a good day, 160 on a bad.

Length of time -- most recently - non-stop every day for 5 months -- on/off for about 3 years (mostly on then off - though I did have a few 1 month drug free months last year).

I've been fighting my battle for almost 2 years now. The first year, I was only quitting (or trying to) to stop hearing all the b*tching in my life -- then for the past year, I've realized they weren't b*tching - they were trying to help me -- I've realized how bad I was, so the past year was "real" attempts -- hence managing a few 1 month drug free periods -- however, I'm working for a new company - and I can't get away with "not feeling well" every 2-3 weeks - so I gotta stop.

Sad - it takes a job to get me to quit -- but atleast I have something that pushed me eh?

Anyway, thanks for the posts -- hopefully I'll be of help to some of you (or any new posters) in the near future!

[poetrygirl1960]

I bet you are right because compared to methadone suboxone is mild.  Even though I took a lot of what I took for a long time too I would have to go periods of time (like 4-5 days) without any and then I would have wretched diarrhea.

[wait2long]

i dont even have that issue...but i think maybe because of the methadone i was on before?  as that IS the worst for your digestive system...methadone stops everything in its tracks.

[wait2long]

none of what you posted is accurate...not one bit...
and before posting inaccurate information,i really think you should talk to the people who are actually taking it...
trying to scare someone from what MAY save them, is not productive...

[poetrygirl1960]

Constipation sucks!  I never had this problem with all of the opiates I ran through my system, but for some reason now that I am taking suboxone I take MOM every single day!  What's up with that?  I know opiod type drugs stop the motility of your digestion but I'm only taking 12mgs a day opposed to fists full of darvocet and percocet.

[MikeWithFamily]

Please donot try and taper yourself. I am going on week10 with Suboxone treatment and its been the best 10 weeks that I have had in years. My doctor whom I trust completely; hes been my doc for a long, long time and hes great. He also supports Suboxone Treatment and has been treating me. I expressed the EXACT concerns as you did; because I had heard/read on this site about the withdrawal from Suboxone. Well, he told me the EXACT thing he told you. he said "I'll build a taper program for you and we'll go slow, you will feel little if anything in the form of withdrawals."
Thats sounds like what your doctor said. I believe my DOC 100% so I am not worried a bit. Remember, we usually hear about what does not work, but little do we hear about what does work because it makes for a very boring subject to talk about....trust your doc, you'll be ok.
Also, being on it a long time...for me, its ideal to be on it for at least 3 months. For me, I wanted the chance to build new habits, healthier habits and incorporate newer hobbies into my everyday day life and lifestyle. The Sub has allowed me to focus on other things rather than how/where to get my next drugs, where I want to be to enjoy the drugs, etc... see what I mean? It give you a chance to change engage in a new lifestyle and build a pattern so thatwhen you go off the Sub, you are already in full motion of new things. God Luck and I iwll pray for you.
God Bless
MikeWithFamily

[NautyOne]

I have also heard of Temgesic.  it is a lower dose, but somehow seems to be more effective.  Go figure?  Its only used outside of the U.S.  I hear it i much better than suboxone.  dunno?

[LONESOME]

I agree with you 100% as well to try to do a short term on it for ME and my Doctor short term is 1 to 3 months I heard people be on it for a year at a time and I really don't see how I'm allready diying on it bc of the constipation lol, so I'm trying now to taper I was going really fast at first as far as tapering 2 weeks ago I was on 4mg but really not doing ok so went to another doctor and he put me back on 8mg so now I'm tapering down to 4mg.
Thank you for sharing ok

[BornTwoRiff]

I agree with you 100%.. a little sub is a lot better than a ton of other pills.. I tried to get my doctor to give it to me to get off the patch but he did not even know what it was and when he looked it up said he could not write it,, had to have special scripting permit to do so.. I think its a great tool to get free from opiates,, but long term I have no idea.. I would want to be on the lowest dose I could tolerate and then maybe start to wean from there as I felt better.. Even if you have to break them and take 1/4 or 1/2 mg at the end..

[LONESOME]

You have to look what is best for you don't seat here and read all the negatives on sub from this forum bc there is a lot, but really need to see what poetry said doc,how long are you really to confront your life with out any help, any other support like counseling or NA? all of that and if the answer to the last 2 is no you need to stay longer than 2 weeks for sure, that is MY opinion I'm on sub 34 days now and started tapering down yesterday I'm on 6mg and I do ok with 4mg so I will do 4mg today but I'm not stopping on 2mg you need to take it slow and the lowest dose posible like a 1/4 of a 2mg if possible so that you get use to it, that is MY opinion and yes it is very scary to read all the negatives but there is a lot of positives as well for me I could be still taking 30 to 35 norcos a day and take the risk of not waking up every single day and that is not an option for me anymore so please just follow you instinct really that is all you can do GOOD LUCK! and we can do this ok
GS

[BornTwoRiff]

old box here says Buprenorfina(spanish)  he even gave me ..3mg injectable but I was sort of scared of a needle of that stuff.. Took a few which was really good but did not trust it that way.. had rather go the sublinual way....

[BornTwoRiff]

I took temgesic in Mexico from a doctor for my hip and I tell you that is a good medication. The dose was only ..2mg  or 2/10 of 1percent sublingal 1-2 a day sometimes 3.. It was great.. It kills pain.. I did not know what i was on and had no w/d..  I guess because It was LOW dose and I took it for only 6months or so.. Temgesic is same as Subutec without opiate blocker..

[allaboutmary]

Ditto to what Poetrygirl and Kathy say.  If the short taper doesn't work go for a long slow taper.  Most the horror stories you hear about suboxone withdrawal are from people that jumped off too high a dose.  Long slow tapers are best if you have taken them longer than a month.  Also many have had great success with a rapid detox using sub.  This desicion is your.  I have only good things to say about the sub so far.  My eyes are not pinned, I am definatley not constipated.
It does take a few days to get adjusted to the sub. and to get your dose right.  If you find in a few days that you are still getting that foggy feeling, try lowering your dose a bit.

[Kathy1010]

I am on day 13 post subox,I finally got sleep last night,9 hrs,yay..I feel like a new person.I had a very difficult time with withdrawals coming off 2mg.If I had to do it all over again I would probably do short term(I was 3 to 4 months) or tapered down more.I have to say that the cravings were not as bad coming off subox than norco/fentanyl.I had a failed attempt trying to get off those.My biggest problem coming off subox was the weakness and lack of sleep.I did have some RLS but that was controlled pretty well with the clonodine.

Like poetry said..you could always try a quick taper and if doesn't work do a longer taper.I do think subox was the right choice for me.I just may have done it differently.For those of you having trouble coming off,hang in there.There is a light at the end of the tunnel:)

[poetrygirl1960]

What were you originally addicted to?  How long?

Those are pertinent questions to get the answer to your questions.  I will say this, and some will disagree I'm sure, but if you have had a long and heavy addiction it's much better than what you were doing before.

I take 12 mgs a day and I have chronic pain from injury to my C3 to C6 spine.  I used and abused for 17 years mostly percocets, at times some milder narcotics and at times some much stronger like MS Contin and dilaudid.  

Like you said if you do a 2 week taper and still feel bad you can always go back.  I have drilled my doctor with suboxone questions, read material about it, and talked to a lot of people here.  It is an excellent alternative.

[nulife]

Once you feel normal again, you have extra energy , you are no longer in that loop of addiction, things just feel awesome. This is referred to as the "honeymoon phase", you want to shout it to the world, you tell anyone how great it is.you want to turn everyone on to this fantastic new discovery.

Sort of like the way somebody turned us on to drugs for the first time because they thought they were great too!

The Reality-
While on sub, your pupils are still pinned, you ARE still taking a opioid every single day, you are still constipated all the time. Sub is really strong, and the life is so much longer that your dosing is less frequent. So your old habits are initially broken. You say to yourself, why would I want to get off this when its making me feel so good/productive.

Post-Induction- (if you get started on the right dose)
You feel GREAT, everything you imagined it would be it delivered on.. You feel normal again.(being a addict you may even experiment with a little extra just to see if you can feel better than normal) (a lot of people get started on way too high of a dose so they feel dizzy, nauseous, and get that infamous bup headache)

The TRUTH-
You really are not as normal as you think. Your perception of the real normal was distorted by your previous drug use. In actuality you are just not as high as you were before, being a partial agonist it only gets you high to a certain level. Your perceptions, feelings, actions are just slightly distorted. If you dont believe this, give a small piece of sub to a straight person and ask them how they feel, I tried that little experiment it wont be normal

The Failure-
After being on sub for a random amount of time- (usually 6months to 3 years) you begin to realize that you are beginning to feel foggy, distant, or removed. Your dosing will be needed to get out of bed, it will become your morning cup of coffee, you will plan your life around your dose, your old DOC behavioral habits will begin to revolve around the sub. normal will become disgusting.the fog will get worse and worse. Your fatigue will get more frequent. This is caused by a combination of decreased neurotransmitter production and temporary shut down of specific receptor sites.

Trying to stop-
Every week you swear to yourself you will start to taper, you make declarations like quitting smoking (by summer I will stop) every time you see the Dr you mention quitting or cutting back, he/she just smiles and gives you another script. You start to feel guilty about dosing around others, you realize that this is just another drug. With sub or MMT since the life is so long your brain loses this event horizon its just always high. This is one of the reasons that the wds and PAWS/Rebound are so notoriously long with longer life opioids, the receptors have shut down that naturally produce because they are unused. On sub your brain is always flooded with med. With other opioids these receptors still fire occasionally when the drug wears down, this is why wds are not as long from other drugs, and PAWS is more infrequent.