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Day 2 Subutex Reduction
Hi friends
I am here in the UK and on a subutex script.
For 8 yrs. I was on massive amounts of dihyrocodeine - I guess a mixture of hydro and vicodin - powerful stuff. I had built up to about 40 x 30mg a day and it was killing me. Originally started taking it for pain for an old spinal injury and stuck to the 8 per day. But with all addicts we tend to have heavy baggage and kid ourselves we are taking it for pain but really we are taking it to block of all the bad stuff that has happened to us in our lives that we cannot deal with, or can no longer cope with. We like the euphoria, the energy and being able to block things off. So we end up addicts.
Beg. of Nov. started on 6mg of subutex. First 6 weeks no withdrawals and just felt normal but emotionally nothing.
Started taking vitamins and minerals, good diet and building up a good exercise regime which for me was walking - now 40-50mins. per day. Stopped taking valium at night. Then first 6 weeks of year felt fantastic! Was reducing at 0.4mg per week. 'Natural energy', or so I thought, tremendous peace of mind and a zest for life I had not felt in years. I thought I was winning all round - the addiction and all my demons. Night meant pain at night and sleeping on and off all through the night and temp. swinging up and down. But okay. Head was clear and I looked a million times better. Sussed!
Down to 3.6mg and breakthrough pain started so I was told to stay on the 3.6mg and that was 9 weeks ago then the depression started. And boy oh boy it has been a roller coaster of horrors. With subutex, people talk of the 'honeymoon period' of feeling great, and then falling down. Fall I did. Anxiety attacks, pessimism about the future, no hope, severe anger about the whole of my life, bitterness, hatred, real extremes - the demons truly came to visit, and real, deep, profound unhappiness. Depression personified. The odd days bearable inbetween. Started researching subutex and found this could happen to people who had mental health problems, had not had such a great deal in life through things happening to them such as traumatic car crashes changing their lives and **** childhoods(!), and history of depression. Had not chosen methadone to get of the pills as knew I did not have the discipline not to abuse it. So ... what to do?
The shorter time you are on subutex apparently, the easier the withdrawal at the end, and the less likelihood of PAWS from what I can gather. I just want off it. Have had 3 days of feeling okay mentally and want to be rid of it. The dihydro should be gone and now this stuff, yet another addictive chemical needs to **** off too!
Docs need to tell you about the negative sides of the drugs that help you come off your DOC when they prescribe them. Had I known what was in store ..... I would never have stopped reducing back in Feb. Have wasted 2 months letting the subutex get more of a hold.
Day 2 - am down to 3.2mg. Need to take into account the half life, storage of subutex in body fat people talk about. If I feel stable after 5 days I will drop another 0.4 mg. Get the tablets in 2mg and 0.4mg.
Prior to starting, I began taking vitamins and minerals and making sure I was on a good diet, which I had let slip during the bad depression, which is when you just don't care. Had kept up the exercise because my dog needed to still get out and she has helped me a lot. Taking her to the fields and woods has helped me think a lot of stuff out. When I don't want to go, I force myself to. Seeing her enjoyment as she hunts and plays brings me pleasure when nothing else does.
Would be happy to hear from others - good stories and bad, and those that want to take the same journey. I will always reply.
Take care all
- F
I am here in the UK and on a subutex script.
For 8 yrs. I was on massive amounts of dihyrocodeine - I guess a mixture of hydro and vicodin - powerful stuff. I had built up to about 40 x 30mg a day and it was killing me. Originally started taking it for pain for an old spinal injury and stuck to the 8 per day. But with all addicts we tend to have heavy baggage and kid ourselves we are taking it for pain but really we are taking it to block of all the bad stuff that has happened to us in our lives that we cannot deal with, or can no longer cope with. We like the euphoria, the energy and being able to block things off. So we end up addicts.
Beg. of Nov. started on 6mg of subutex. First 6 weeks no withdrawals and just felt normal but emotionally nothing.
Started taking vitamins and minerals, good diet and building up a good exercise regime which for me was walking - now 40-50mins. per day. Stopped taking valium at night. Then first 6 weeks of year felt fantastic! Was reducing at 0.4mg per week. 'Natural energy', or so I thought, tremendous peace of mind and a zest for life I had not felt in years. I thought I was winning all round - the addiction and all my demons. Night meant pain at night and sleeping on and off all through the night and temp. swinging up and down. But okay. Head was clear and I looked a million times better. Sussed!
Down to 3.6mg and breakthrough pain started so I was told to stay on the 3.6mg and that was 9 weeks ago then the depression started. And boy oh boy it has been a roller coaster of horrors. With subutex, people talk of the 'honeymoon period' of feeling great, and then falling down. Fall I did. Anxiety attacks, pessimism about the future, no hope, severe anger about the whole of my life, bitterness, hatred, real extremes - the demons truly came to visit, and real, deep, profound unhappiness. Depression personified. The odd days bearable inbetween. Started researching subutex and found this could happen to people who had mental health problems, had not had such a great deal in life through things happening to them such as traumatic car crashes changing their lives and **** childhoods(!), and history of depression. Had not chosen methadone to get of the pills as knew I did not have the discipline not to abuse it. So ... what to do?
The shorter time you are on subutex apparently, the easier the withdrawal at the end, and the less likelihood of PAWS from what I can gather. I just want off it. Have had 3 days of feeling okay mentally and want to be rid of it. The dihydro should be gone and now this stuff, yet another addictive chemical needs to **** off too!
Docs need to tell you about the negative sides of the drugs that help you come off your DOC when they prescribe them. Had I known what was in store ..... I would never have stopped reducing back in Feb. Have wasted 2 months letting the subutex get more of a hold.
Day 2 - am down to 3.2mg. Need to take into account the half life, storage of subutex in body fat people talk about. If I feel stable after 5 days I will drop another 0.4 mg. Get the tablets in 2mg and 0.4mg.
Prior to starting, I began taking vitamins and minerals and making sure I was on a good diet, which I had let slip during the bad depression, which is when you just don't care. Had kept up the exercise because my dog needed to still get out and she has helped me a lot. Taking her to the fields and woods has helped me think a lot of stuff out. When I don't want to go, I force myself to. Seeing her enjoyment as she hunts and plays brings me pleasure when nothing else does.
Would be happy to hear from others - good stories and bad, and those that want to take the same journey. I will always reply.
Take care all
- F
Best Answer
Try to give yourself a break. I have found that most addicts are really great people, so awesome in fact, they beat themselves up for not being perfect. The problems in the world and life seem to touch the addict in a personal way. You will have the rest of your life to make up lost time, you will have time to be the person you intend to be. I found that I am becoming a better person and living a better life than I thought I was capable of. Stay focused on recovery, all the rest will fall into place. Great work so far. Time heals all things.
Hi Eveleivibe
You can't abuse subs with taking codeine - they are a pure antagonist - so don't worry about that. My addiction was up to 40 x 30mg dihydrocodeine per day after 8 years which are a lot stronger than codeine, as you prob know.
At first, you pick up subs from the pharmacy each day, then after a few urine samples to show that you are not taking anything else, such as valium, for example, you pick up your prescription three times per week.
At first, you will have to take your sub at the pharmacy, but very quickly you will take them home with you to take. I hope you have a local pharmacy you have a good relationship with, or choose one that has a 'private room' you can go into. Mine is great as I have known them for many years as I have so many diff meds for other things and they are family run,
Take the advice of the specialist doctor you will see at your drugs centre with your key worker. Discuss whether subs are better for you or meth. However, if you feel that you have the potential to use codeine (is that your DOC (drug of choice)?) on top of the meth, then do not choose meth. Reduce off the sub as soon as poss. - slowly, gradually.
It is not a fairytale, although you will feel great and normal and first and you will not want your DOC. Hopefully for you, it will be fine all the way through as it is for some. Do NOT be afraid by any of this. You have made your decision to stop and you are doing it. It sounds like you have the support your family, and that is great!
I found that interests I had lost for years came back even. Go do it and good luck!
- Fee
You can't abuse subs with taking codeine - they are a pure antagonist - so don't worry about that. My addiction was up to 40 x 30mg dihydrocodeine per day after 8 years which are a lot stronger than codeine, as you prob know.
At first, you pick up subs from the pharmacy each day, then after a few urine samples to show that you are not taking anything else, such as valium, for example, you pick up your prescription three times per week.
At first, you will have to take your sub at the pharmacy, but very quickly you will take them home with you to take. I hope you have a local pharmacy you have a good relationship with, or choose one that has a 'private room' you can go into. Mine is great as I have known them for many years as I have so many diff meds for other things and they are family run,
Take the advice of the specialist doctor you will see at your drugs centre with your key worker. Discuss whether subs are better for you or meth. However, if you feel that you have the potential to use codeine (is that your DOC (drug of choice)?) on top of the meth, then do not choose meth. Reduce off the sub as soon as poss. - slowly, gradually.
It is not a fairytale, although you will feel great and normal and first and you will not want your DOC. Hopefully for you, it will be fine all the way through as it is for some. Do NOT be afraid by any of this. You have made your decision to stop and you are doing it. It sounds like you have the support your family, and that is great!
I found that interests I had lost for years came back even. Go do it and good luck!
- Fee
Hey Mak!
I'm so thrilled for you! A big congratulations to you and your new family. Wow I bet you are delighted that your little one has had no WD's. That is the greatest news!
Is she sleeping well at night? Hope your C-section area is healing well - that sounded like a bit of a 'mare! Friends said it was really difficult to breastfeed after a C-section - sore because of the position!
So, now you are a 'mummy' and in a new club so to speak.
Wishing you lots of luck and future happiness which I know you will have. Your little girl is with you now.
All blessings to your family
- Fee x
I'm so thrilled for you! A big congratulations to you and your new family. Wow I bet you are delighted that your little one has had no WD's. That is the greatest news!
Is she sleeping well at night? Hope your C-section area is healing well - that sounded like a bit of a 'mare! Friends said it was really difficult to breastfeed after a C-section - sore because of the position!
So, now you are a 'mummy' and in a new club so to speak.
Wishing you lots of luck and future happiness which I know you will have. Your little girl is with you now.
All blessings to your family
- Fee x
Hi nursegirl
Great to hear from you. Hope you are well and thank you as ever for your continued support on this Forum!
What you say makes total sense. And you obviously worked for a very wise doctor! I have now read many stories where people have got into a lot of trouble by being putting on subs unnecessarily and it turned their lives into hell.
I am biding my time with completing research/empirical evidence (sounds like I'm back at uni!) until I approach my old key worker and existing inexperienced outreach worker/prescribing nurse as they really are in denial about the negative side of subs!
The amino acid protocol assisted me immensely when I 'crashed' on the subs. It helped with the depression and has helped with mild WD symptoms. So very good all round. However, I had to insist on the reduction, and at that time had gathered in certain vitamins, minerals etc. prior to reading about the a.a.p. so I got myself prepared for reducing from the amount they were more than happy for me to stay on (3.6mg) because of breakthrough pain. It was the wrong advice! The whole point of subs is it is a pure antagonist, you cannot abuse it, once you are stable, which happens very quickly, then reduce and do not stop. The longer you are on it, the worse it will be.
Don't feel angry all the time! But there is a lot in the past - and when you have been in a big opiate fog for 8 years, one thing subs do is bring excessive clarity into your head so your get a rush of everything all at once. And you have to deal with it. During the 'honeymoon period' - all peace and love, and acceptance. Then the opposite. You have to get through the range of emotions. It is not an aggressive anger - it is anger at myself for wasting years to have been so weak to have let the pain and some very bad stuff get so much on top off me - I stopped coping completely. When I was young and arrogant (the arrogance of youth!) I fought it all like a tiger although I hurt like hell about what had happened. The latter has not gone away. Then you get a little worn out by it all. And I did. And I accept that.
Thank you very much for your great advice, as ever! You're fab!
- Fee x
Great to hear from you. Hope you are well and thank you as ever for your continued support on this Forum!
What you say makes total sense. And you obviously worked for a very wise doctor! I have now read many stories where people have got into a lot of trouble by being putting on subs unnecessarily and it turned their lives into hell.
I am biding my time with completing research/empirical evidence (sounds like I'm back at uni!) until I approach my old key worker and existing inexperienced outreach worker/prescribing nurse as they really are in denial about the negative side of subs!
The amino acid protocol assisted me immensely when I 'crashed' on the subs. It helped with the depression and has helped with mild WD symptoms. So very good all round. However, I had to insist on the reduction, and at that time had gathered in certain vitamins, minerals etc. prior to reading about the a.a.p. so I got myself prepared for reducing from the amount they were more than happy for me to stay on (3.6mg) because of breakthrough pain. It was the wrong advice! The whole point of subs is it is a pure antagonist, you cannot abuse it, once you are stable, which happens very quickly, then reduce and do not stop. The longer you are on it, the worse it will be.
Don't feel angry all the time! But there is a lot in the past - and when you have been in a big opiate fog for 8 years, one thing subs do is bring excessive clarity into your head so your get a rush of everything all at once. And you have to deal with it. During the 'honeymoon period' - all peace and love, and acceptance. Then the opposite. You have to get through the range of emotions. It is not an aggressive anger - it is anger at myself for wasting years to have been so weak to have let the pain and some very bad stuff get so much on top off me - I stopped coping completely. When I was young and arrogant (the arrogance of youth!) I fought it all like a tiger although I hurt like hell about what had happened. The latter has not gone away. Then you get a little worn out by it all. And I did. And I accept that.
Thank you very much for your great advice, as ever! You're fab!
- Fee x
Yeah and i was the same way at one point, i would abuse them and sell them to get what i really wanted...which was heroin but this time around becoming sober while pregnant and being so hopeless, has changed my outlook on everything, yes i think about getting high still sometimes but i know where getting high takes me...and thats, homeless, hopeless, and a lot of other things and i just know that i can't live a productive life while getting high. I think that it's great that you know what is best for you, and know your boundries and limitations! That is half the battle!
I'm glad that worked for you but I'd really hate that as I know I would abuse them n thus replace one addiction for another. I like the idea of going to the pharmacy each day because it's being controlled n there are no nice associations with it eg 'laying in bed taking pills.'
On the downside if there were day trips / holidays I'm not sure how that works but all n all i would prefer that way as I've proved myself that I can't control myself with codeine at least.
On the downside if there were day trips / holidays I'm not sure how that works but all n all i would prefer that way as I've proved myself that I can't control myself with codeine at least.
Hey e, no your not being nosey lol i put my story up for a reason, hopefully it could help someone. But yes im from maryland usa and we get scripts of them, but my doctor gives me one for a month and i check in with him once a month aswell and he gives me a urinalysis aswell to make sure all the levels are the right level, i know there are some docs that dont care and give ppl scripts that are still using which is so stupid to me and dangerous! But thank you for the well wishes, and feel free to msg me if you have any other questions or concerns!! :)
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