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Day 2 without Hydro
Had surgery 5 weeks ago and been on hydro. approx 14 5-500 mg. per day. I stepped down the last ten days to 2-4 5-500 mg. per day. I was irritated yesterday and had definite withdrawal symptoms. The problem is I know I can get more and don't want to do so because I have to get off them sometime, right. I am recovering from ovarian cancer and still have pain. I can't discern if it warrants meds or is withdrawal.  How much worse can I expect the symptoms this next 24hrs. is the worst behind me? and I stepped myself down after reading this site. My doc. did not discuss this process and I wish he had. I was not able to go as slowly as has been recommended here. If anyone would like to share you can email me at ***@****. thanks.
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GOD DAMN IT, i f___ up again!!! but it was two nights ago, I had a "little yeller pill" I honestly couldn't even enjoy it, I was too pissed off, I shouldn't have done it, my stomach was turning the whole ride up to get my fix.  It was awful, anyway, here I am two days later, sitting in my chair yet my legs are dancing.  Anyway, life goes on as well as the battle.  It sounds like your are a great writer.  Maybe you could write some more of what is in your journal, if not, thats ok to.  Hope all is well. Talk to you soon.

GWH
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Be brave, be strong, be positive

When things get better, be committed, be disciplined

Pills are not strong enough to take you, you are stronger, you are wiser..... than those damned pills
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Kip...email me...I'll give you my phone number. I'm here for you anytime. I mean that.

***@****
You have the other email address too, feel free to use that one.

You were a huge part of saving my life and I can't sit back and do nothing while you need a friend.

I love you.

WW
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witchywoman:
problem- i'm using IR's windows box (i'm a mac user) any how i can't seem to acces her e-mail. i thought i got something sent,
but maybe not.....
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hmmm
Do you have an IM program? On aol I am Moonmagick Tara. I'm about to go into a meeting here at work, but I have a break in about an hour, so I can turn on my IM then, and we can chat.

I have IR's email, but if you can't access her email then you couldn't get that either.  

I'll check as soon as I am finished here at work.

Remember that angel on *your* shoulder!  :-)

WW
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witchywoman:
i can get sherri to walk me thru - go ahead and send phone # and
best time to call

i'm ok

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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ok Kip, I sent an email to S's email. I hope it works!

love,
WW
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--I do not know know you nearly as well as others, but you have been a true inspiration to me; you have no idea how much YOUR comments have helped me.  I mean you have *no* idea... and it's more than just the drugs "stuff"--your spirit that shines through your posts is so intense and, well, for lack of an ability at this precise moment to come up with the right word, "good"  just so damn good.  So hang in there; I feel you have been the angel on *my* shoulder for a a couple of months now.  Truly...
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Kip. My mother suffers from chronic pain. she has adhesions, which are scars that pull at her internal organs. She's been on a host of heavy drugs for 3 years. The latest is Oxy. there are other ways, holistic ways... and you can do it. Acutputcure WORKS. Have you tried this? It might take awhile to 'take' but you can do it. That's what I've talked her into trying and it works!! She's a long time "AA-er". Tell us how you are. God bless this board, how we are there for each other!
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witchywoman:

whats to say????  i can not begin to explain the value of our
friendship. i remeber last summer when you were new to the forum.
you were a mess...but you were real. i'm touched with honor and
joy at the idea that i had a small part in the couragious change
you have undertaken!! now i'm the one who is the mess and you have
been a true friend.

thankyou and keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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good people:
thank you for your concern and support. i feel like a real ass-hole
for doing the equivlent of throw a tantrum. somedays life stares me
down and then tears me to shreds. other days float on whistful clouds of joy. i just want to be in the middle. i'm real tired of the extreams.

besides feeling real disgusted with myself i'm ok for now.

keep an angel on your shoulder!!
kip
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Well, it looks like I am the last one to thank you for that truthful and excellent post explaining your addiction and what it did to your career--as well as the legal ramifications...and I do thank you immensely for sharing.  I can only say I am happy that the DA did the right thing and got you help instead of persecuting you, because you were sick.  Personally, I do not buy into the disease model of addiction--and I in no way wish to stir up another hornet's nest here, folks, it's just my opinion, ok?--but I do think that addiction, disease or not, is a horribly debilitating habit that is just as bad as any disease.  

That said, I want to share that since posting here I have been incredibly depressed and have been battling suicide every minute of every day.  It had become that bad for me.  It was only here that I could find some shelter from the storm.  I started prozac two weeks ago and today, for the first day, I am starting to feel human again, like myself, which is utterly amazing.  I have not quit hyrdros completely yet, but I have been struggling to taper down, and now I feel even more strength to do that.  With the depression and the relentless desire for death, I just wasn't sure I could do it. I in no way intend that antidepressants are a cure-all or will make detox "easy," but I think that the replenished serotonin has made a huge difference.  I am going to augment the recipe by replacing the L-Tyrosine with the prozac, and then take the zinc, etc, while avoiding the 5-htp.  I'm sure a shrink will be able to help me adjust these levels appropriately and help me get enough serotonin pumping in there that I don't feel like the only way to quit is by sticking a gun in mouth.

Anyway, thanks JR for your candor.  I found your story both heartbreaking and inspirational, and it certainly is frightening to think that any of us can get busted for doing something we think is "harmless" when it isn't.  Also, we may not be as lucky as you and get thrown in the slammer instead of a treatment program where we belong.  My hat's off to you for your courage, tenacity and accomplishment.

And thanks to everyone else who makes this forum thrive.  Without out I may have taken the wrong way out of this mess.  I'm not out of the woods, nowhere near it, but I am on my way with your help and encouragement and that alone is cause for me to be indebted to you always.

I may be an atheist, but I do believe in this:  Keep the faith.
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I was so moved by your first post about your "fall from grace" that I immediately replied and did not read the rest of the threads, wherein you explained your daily dosage.  I was there once, too.  There were times I took up to 60 lortabs a day.  For weeks.  Uh, not good.  After getting clean, I was the happiest guy in the world.  Now that I'm back, I struggle to take 3 but usually it's 4 at a time, and about 4 times a day.  16.  160 mg.

I have to say that I think the prozac or any SSRI is a good starting point to getting off.  I'm only starting to not feel depressed, but just yesterday I was at that point where I was taking 16 norcos a day and only feel normal.  There is no high anymore.  I'm just staving off the withdrawal.  If I up the intake I will run out and then go cold turkey.  I white knuckle the days with even that amount and fight off the suicidal tendencies, and then today, for the first time, I felt like there was hope again, so it is something to consider for those of you facing the grips of suicidal depression.  I have not been able to stop thinking about killing myself for three months now and the only thing stopping me has been my daughter's face.  It was getting to the point where even that didn't matter and that's when I knew I needed to start taking something.  After ten days of 20 mg prozac I started the new prozac weekly, one pill a week, and I think it is kicking in because I am not hiding under my desk for four hours a day or laying in bed all day and not picking up the phone, avoiding my job, and waiting for my life to fall apart.  I have energy and desire and feel like my old self, ready to tackle this thing, whereas before I simply felt defeated, worthless and ready to die.

JR, your posts are priceless.  You've made a difference in my life and the lives of others.  I only hope that what I have to share here will help others even a fraction as much as you have.

To quote from my favorite movie, "Choose life."

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I know it must be hard right now, physically and mentally. I doubt I could add much to the supportive and insightful posts above except to say that for me, drugs robbed me of self respect and left me a mere vessel that needed filling with chemicals every few hours. I saw my kids growing and moving away, I saw the intimacy with my wife disappear and I watched the rich exchange of friendship wane, all for my warm and fuzzy around the clock fix. I wondered what my tombstone would read - "Here Lies Jack Frost not a bad guy until he hit 40 and then his life turned into ****, too bad."

Once that decision was made there was no going back, let life pass me by or get back into the rich pageant. That insight can keep one going through the physical withdrawals, through the lethargy and the days and weeks will pass. There will be a point where you reach a summit and look back and say with pride you made it and will never go back. We knew we would have to pay the piper, I knew it with every pill I took. Once the dragon is slayed you can watch the sun come up a free man, you can give your love and set and example for your kids, you can enjoy simple things like a bowl of ice cream or a walk without have to score drugs. In short you can enjoy what it means to be a feeling, giving human, not a drug vessel.

For you and for everyone fighting the battle today this little virtual community cares, keeps you in our thoughts and knows (re-read the success stories above) *knows* you can prevail. You will soon be out of that chair and up those stairs.

Keeping you in my thoughts,

Hang in there,

JF
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Hey Skipper,

Thought I would drop a line and see how your doing. I am really moved by your way with words. Man, the compassion that rolls off of your tongue is truly a God given talent. I'll bet you can help many people as you already have, myself included. I thank you for your heart.

You know, and I am echoing other posts by witchywoman, ketta and others, but there are other ways to deal with the pain. I am ignorant to the methods of pain management clinics which are on the rise, but you might check it out. Life is not what addiction has taught us. I believe that you know that as well as anyone on this forum. I can't tell you not to take those oxy's only you know what to do with those. You also know what can happen. It's good to remember those 18 clean years. That is a reference point to base your forthcoming recovery on. You haven't failed in falling back. Just don't stay there. It's not how we start thats important, it's how we finish. You have way too much ahead of you. I know it may be hard to see in all of the haze, but I can guarantee that there is life beyond all of it and I think that many here if not all, will attest to this fact. We are all in different stages of our recovery and we have all gained some wisdom along the way. You could say that we are sort of a power source and we are here for you to draw from. I am here for you.

In His Love, JR.~
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witchy woman:
more about the lethargy. it takes me 5 minutes to drive in to
work. during that drive in time i remembered a part of "Naked
Lunch" by W S Burroughs. i seem to remember him describe the
lethergy we all are speaking of. he (Burroughs) called it "the
days of quab have decended on me. directly after a description
of his lethergy he described a condition called the "chucks."
this is when that horrid urge to consume sweets overtakes the
recently clean junky. last night i ate half my step sons birthday
cake and a half gallon of ice cream (hey i couldn't sleep). well
if that isn't ammunition for self loathing i just don't know what
is!!

the upper midwest seem caught in a strangle hold of damp coldness
that seems to get down inside a junky's bones. as i walked "meaty
boy" (my dog remember) my feet were slippery on the 4:30 am
grass. i looked at all the dark houses where the "sane" people
were wrapped up in normal sleep. i felt like such an outsider.
i could just imagine some upper middle class mother telling her
children to not be like that junky who walks his dog at all hours
of the night and day!! my long yellow junky teeth were chattering
in the cold and my footsteps crunched through frost, sounding
like my eyes opening aftr a long dry sleep. the partial moon and
stillness set me shivering even more than i was. i felt like that
song by the Hollys "look thru any window." your probably too
young to remember it....

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Thanks for all your support.

No witchywoman, I was on hydrocodone -- 30 or sometimes quite a  bit more per day.

I'm really curious about your recommendations for dealing with what will probably be 1-2 weeks of utterly demoralizing lethargy and depression. I can take Thomas' recipe (l-tyro & B-6, 5-HTP, zinc and magnesium), but I suspect (maybe it's just a bias against herbals) it won't help much. I can also try deprenyl, which if I'm not mistaken you once wrote about on another forum.

But might it be better to go on an SSRI like prozac now, so that when I'm through tapering of the Bup in 7 days or so I may have some added serotonin in my body?

I have a wonderful addiction doc, and I'm sure he'd prescribe it if I thought it might help. He knows it's the post-withdrawal lethargy that caused me to relapse twice recently.

Any suggestions, Witchywoman
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Schlub, I think that the kind of the depression that comes from opiate withdrawal is so dangerous (in terms of both relapse and suicide) that an ssri is a very good idea.
I would have definately gotten on an ssri post detox if the 5 htp had not worked so well for me.  I think the combination of deprenyl and 5 htp are what did it for me...the two are synergistic in that one boots dopamine and the other boost seratonin. That plus excercise and therapy and lots of prayer got me through.

But...if 5 htp is not strong enough for you, by all means, start prozac now. I've been on prozac and it was a great medication all except for the sexual side effects. I stayed on it six months (this was about ten years ago) and then got off it easily. Prozac is one you can just stop with no problem, unlike paxil and zoloft, which you have to taper from to avoid bad WDs.

The other thing with the lethargy is..I think it's important to just give yourself permission to take it very very easy for that week or two. Does your wife know what you are going through? My husband was very understanding, and didn't mind that I had no energy at all for a few weeks, since he was finally "getting his wife back" as he put it.  It helped me to really see the consequences of all that false euphoria, to really understand what I had done to my body. Being gentle with yourself and your body is important. Try to not approach yourself with a punishing attitude, or to fall into the trap of shame and guilt.  Focus on also knowing that it is only a matter of time before you body adjusts and gets back to normal. The body is very good at repairing itself, and if you give it rest, nutrients, some excercise, the right restorative meds and lots of TLC, it will come through for you.

Also..don't neglect your spirit. Whatever spirituality may mean to you, draw on it. I swear that it is what got me through the worst of it. I prayed, a lot. I wrote a lot in my journal. I was fiercely commited to loving myself through it, no matter what. And the powers that be, my higher powers, carried me through. Sometimes my higher power was this board, sometimes it was my friend who got me through, sometimes it was the Goddess herself. But whatever works for you on that level...if you have any belief at all...reach for it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, nurture your soul and spirit.

Hang in there. We are with you, every step of the way, no matter what.

love,
WW
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Thanks for your wonderful advice (and for your email, too).

I do have a special problem with lethargy and depression. My while life has been built around my willpower and motivation. I never went to college, but "willed" myself to become a very successful journalist and author. I have no clock to punch, and if I don't sit down at my desk in my home-office every morning committed, focused and ready to work, my family doesn't eat.

So that's why this deprssion and lethargy has been so intolerable to me and led me twice to relapse.

But maybe just taking a week off and letting myself be weak and useless and a complete Schlub is not such a bad idea.

Sometimes, as I forget-his-name said in the book "He," a warrior just has to let go and cast himself adrift upon the seas, trusting to fate and not his own will.

Thank you, sweetie.
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hey people:
just came from the pain doc. he was out of town unexpectedly so i
got this dutch south african resident. he got called away to the
ER to entubate someone. so.. i wound up with a very nice lady doc
from pakistan. no changes without my regular pain doc saying ok.
so i'm home now and i'm not real happy. by the computer sits a
bottle of 180 oxycontin 20mg and 60 oxyir. i've been drug free
for 7 days and a few hours...**** i don't want to **** and moan
but i was really hoping for a different approach. i feel like i
have a coin: one side has oxy, the other screaming ******* pain.
now my task is to flip this coin and try to get it to land on it's
edge. i'm a junky, i'm in pain, and  i have failed miserably to
strike a balence. don't have any idea what to do. i've been sitting
looking at all this oxy. it's my ticket to pain free. it's also
a loaded gun. right now this forum is kip's support system. i can't
get a hold of anyone on the phone....**** what could i expect any-
one to do any way?

feel like i've lost the angel
kip
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witchywoman:
first of all congratulation on 6 months! you didn't do for anyone
but yourself, so be happy and strike your balence.

about the lethergy (spelling), i just "put my head down and try to keep moving forward. at the end of the first week of detox i am overcome with self loathing, and i guess i harness that energy. but we all know about paying dues and singing blues!

when i was clean for 17 years, i noticed people in the 12 step
meetings i attended seemed to relapse at interval of 3 months. i've always wondered why. about 2 years ago i was reading in the british journal of addiction about "secondary abstenence syndrome." it seems a lot of addicts are on 3 month cycles of detox/abstence.further studys discovered the level of endorphin and met- enkaflin tend to "spike a peak" just before relapse. i always thought they would drop in levels before, but no they rise! i became so intrested i kept a log for one year. it just recorded when i really
had strong desire to relapse. i was shocked to find i was on pretty much a 3 month cycle too!

my wife is out of town till friday. when i talked on the phone
to her last night i was really bitching about my pain level.
LOL she had diverted a 40 mg oxy-c from me last summer. she told
me where it was. i even went and looked at the pathetic thing,
all lonely by it's self....i didn't sleep to well last night
cause of the pain and that damm yellow pill telling me how lonely
it was......it's still there. now all of you probably think i'm
nuts...hell i'll probably go back on today...but i was able to
ignore that damm yeller pill for at least one more night.

hey i just remembered what i do during the lethargic period. i
write. something about withdrawl really gets words bouncing
around my head!! it's 6:oo am and time for work.

keep an angel on your shoulder,
never mind what the sad folks say..

kip
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To quote a line from a book I recently read--we can go along and the rest of the world can think we're okay, but often "our spirit is dog paddling."  I'm just glad you're feeling better; I wish I had some great insight on alternative pain control, but it sounds like others have some great ideas (that's what I love about this forum).  Keep us posted.
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No apology needed my friend. You did nothing wrong, at all. You reached out in a time of need, and that is what friends do to and for each other.

You remain an inspiration to me.

love,
WW
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Hey Friend,

To echo witchywoman, you did nothing wrong. You are reaching out just like everyone else on the forum. DONT ever feel guilty about that. It's when you quit complaining and reaching out that is the time to worry. Man, you just keep coming back here because each person here has a little life to offer you. We are here for you and to help in any way that is possible. Stay in there my friend.

In His Love, JR.
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Hey there,

Glad to know you. I was away celebrating my 16th anniversary today. I truly feel for you going through the WD's. You should notice energy levels starting to rise in a week or two. It will also depend on your diet, exercise and determination. There is plenty of wisdom, learned wisdom to draw from out here on the forum. We are here for you. I will keep you in my prayers as well as all others out on the forum, for wisdom strength and spiritual, physical healing. God Bless you with continued strength.

In His Love, JR.
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what a welcome it was to also get a response from you!  congradulation on this very special day for you.  i look to my 16th anniversary...  i appreciate you answering my question.  a week or so is not too bad.  the lack of energy is hard for me since i am normally full of energy, with or without Vicodin.  and having four kids makes especially hard.  but not complaining.  i am grateful for everyday that i'm not swallowing a handful of pills..  thank you for the warm response and the prayers.  the power of prayer has no boundries and has worked in my life for a very long time.  blessings J.R., your story has moved me more than you even know.  in fact in the first few days of quitting i read your posts and in reading them it made me feel as though my withdrawls were nothing in comparsion to what you went through.  you are person to be strongly admired and a great asset to this forum..  may His love continue to embrace you.  stars
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hi everyone!  i am fairly new to posting on this board but have been reading for some time now.  all of your stories, good and bad, have been of great strenght for me.  as i had posted in a post a week ago (that no one responded to) i have been a Vic user off and on for a couple of years now.  but after having a new boss come into my company and his physical and verbal abuse, towards me drove to find peace and coping abilities within my Hyrdro.  only way to ease the pain (so i thought).  so for the last year or so i was up to 8-10 a day, then i found a dr. that was writing me scipts for 240 pills a month and those were lasting me two weeks.  i have been 9 days clean, and i'm just "high" on the fact that i'm cleansing myself...  my question is can anyone explain why we ache soooo bad? what is it about the Hydrocodone that makes us ache when we stop?  

I would truly appreciate it if someone could answer my question.  thank you...  :)
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Hi Stars, and welcome! I'm sorry no one answered your question before. Sometimes things get lost, so I'm glad you posted again.

I wish I knew the reason that there are aches and pains and lethargy after withdrawal from hydrocodone.  I think it has something to do with the way the body has not gotten back to making its own natural endorphins.  Apparently, the endorphins we have running through our system all the time keep us from feeling a lot of pain on a regular basis.  When we are on opiates, our endorphin production stops, and when we withdraw, it takes a while for the endorphin production to start up again.
That is my best guess.
It also may have a lot to do with nutritional deficiency. Opiates cause deficiencies in calcium, magnesium and zinc. Deficiencies in these can cause muscle aches, so supplementation is important.

I hope that helps, and good luck!
love,
WW
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kinda pissed at this moment in time...  just got thru writing a big ole long thank you and i *%$#@! deleted it by mistake!!!  gggrrrr..  but i do thank you WW from the bottom of my fast beating heart.  everything you said made total sense.  i was recalling the time i was addicted to excercise and i had zero pain anywhere, but as soon as i stopped (went to work) that is when i started aching everywhere...  so i totally believe the endorphen (sp) issue is correct, makes so much sense..  smart women you are.  i happy to say that i have been taking calcium for sometime now, but i am going to up my intake just alittle.. i will look into the others as well.  i started taking goldenseal and milk thistle the day after i quit my Hydrocordone.  not to mention tons of water and cranberry juice (natural cranberry juice).  i do have one more question if anyone could maybe give me an approx answer on how long does it take to get the energy level back up?  i was 20+ Vics a day over a matter of months.  I know everyone is different, but maybe just a ballpark figure.  i am so so tierd...  today is my 8th day free from "my personal hell".  i'm not even having any cravings, just feeling achey and tierd...  and God help me cuz i'm off to Disneyland tomorrow...  more than likely end up in a wheelchair or stroller by noon...  lol...  

i need to mention that everyone on these message board have my constant prayers and postive energy directed at each and every one of you, not to mention all the other lonely addicts that have no one...  we are so lucky to have one another.  i know for a fact that my recovery is due to alot of you on here...  i pray for strenght for each of us, to be free and to overcome..  life is so awesome, a gift, we can't let it slip through our fingers.  thanks again WW and everyone..


       sometimes voices in the night will call me back again
             back along the pathway of a troubled mind
       when forests rise to block the light that keeps a
                         travler sane
         i'll challenge them with flashes from a brighter time
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good people:

yes i have been to 2 different pain mgt clinics. the first one
i went to i worked with a pain doc (md) and psychologist phd who
specialized in pain issues and alternate methods. i was "tossed
out" by the pain doc because of "non-compliance." what happened
was a mixup in appointments (they claim i missed 2 scheduled
visits). i still work with the psychologist on an as needed
basis.

i've been pretty much the whole route...epidurals, trigger point,
physical therapy, etc. the only thing i haven't tried is accu-
puncter.

i've been pretty much the whole route. after 2 cervical spine
surgerys, my neuro-surgeon told me there was not much more he
could do for me. i somehow got it in my drug addict brain that
maybe time would allow some of the discomfort and pain to sub-
side. i don't want to be on oxy the rest of my life, so i've
got to hold on to hope that maybe things will change with time.

yesterday i lost sight of some real fundamental issues. one of
these was my acceptence that i will not get the life i use to
have before this spine trouble started back. that doesn't mean
that i can't have a life of some sort. somedays i have trouble
accepting this and i start to feel realy screwed over - you
know the "poor me ****" that accomplishes absolutely nothing
except upsetting everyone around me needlessly.

so... i certainly hope everyone can accept my apology for my
immature behavior. the only thing i can say in my defence is i
guess i let myself get real tired in a number of ways. this
forum and it's membership has saved my ass before and will most
likely again in the future.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Hi, I posted in your thread before I read this.  Going from 10 mgs. to 2.5 mgs of valium in one week is way too fast. Also, as I suggested in my other post you may want to only w/d from one drug at a time. Be aware that benzodiazapine withdrawl is not the same as withdrawl from opiates. There is a risk of seizures and there are some unpleasant pshychological symptoms such as extreme anxiety, panic attacks, depersonalization and even psychosis. You do not want to go there. 1 mg decrease every four days is about as fast as you should take it with the valium.  Opiate w/d is excrutiating enough but can be done cold turkey if necessary without life threatening symptoms. But benzos are a whole other deal. Be very careful there.
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hi to everone.  as you may have seen, i posted a question today using this site the first time.  i didn't know of this thread until afterwards,  but this is the thread where i'm at.

i've been on valium and vicodin for about 9 months straight due to bad back and knee surgery.  started abusing the pills, but am trying to get off and to get my body in shape.  back is well enough to do physical therapy now, so i started reducing the pills.  was on about 10 mg of valium and three 7.5 mgs of vicodin a day.  now down to 5 mg of valium a day and one vicodin (or vicoprofin)a day.  

have had all the symptoms all unwise, badgirl, dmr, ketta and others have had.  real anxiety -  wake up nervous.  now i'm getting real nervous cause i have about a week left before i run out.  my goal is go get down to 1/2 of one vicodin and 2.5 mg of valium before i go off totally.

do you think this will work,  and how much is the "panic of withdrawal" thing contributing.  i'm afraid i'm going to go back and try to get more (been here before in my life) and i am really trying not to go that way.

REALLY WOULD APPRECIATE SOME RESPONSES AND HELP ON THIS ONE....PLEASE!!
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One old junkie to another, I want to tell you that you are one of my favorite people here on this board.  I think you have just had a few bad days and will be just fine soon enough.  I get so damn frustrated, too.  With my wife slipping away daily with her health problems, plus my own, it ain't easy.  

Just a few minutes ago I had several 30mg tabs of MSIR in my hand and thought how easy it would be to down them all and go for the last "BUZZ".  The trouble is that my tolerance level is probably so high that I would enjoy the experience and awake in the morning wanting more!

In the end, I hate the incessant pain in my body.  I lovingly take care of my wife and hate that she is in severe pain from her cancer.  I have lost the desire to "quit" anything anymore and choose to live as respectively as I can manage.  We can still maintain our pride, Kip. Or am I just pissing in the wind?

J.B.
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I just wanted to thank you for my personal welcome to this site, it made me feel very good and special.I will try and keep in touch, but will always read the comments and ?. It's back to work tmo.I will continu to read the questions and posts. I willd will always send special thoughts to those of you who have relapsed or are "down" . YOU can do it! and there is always an angle watching over you.
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I just wanted to thank you for my personal welcome to this site, it made me feel very good and special.I will try and keep in touch, but will always read the comments and ?. It's back to work tmo.I will continu to read the questions and posts. I willd will always send special thoughts to those of you who have relapsed or are "down" . YOU can do it! and there is always an angle watching over you.
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JB:
good to hear from you! i've always been honered and helped by many
of your post. it's just there isn't enough! (how's that for being
a junky or a immature adult?) i'm still praying for your wife and
you. there is a way thru. be carefull with that morphine!! 1 grain
of ms in the gi tract can't amount to much but ya' never know...

dunit:
i always get real happy to see a new comer post again. see my plan
is to get a lot of people active on this site, so if i wander to
far off the path, someone will come pull me back on!! i'll be out
of town thursday - sunday, but will look forward to checking this site out as soon as i return!!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Hey man, I am back in town if you want to talk. I can only talk every few days and on the weekend. I hope all is well, or at least better than it was. I continue to pray for the light to shine in your life. You hang in there my friend. I am here for you as we all are and here for everyone on the forum. Drop me a line.

In Christ's Love, JR.~
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Thanks so much for the praiseful words! I'd jump in here more often but I'm busy overhauling and restoring my neighbor's 1973 Peterbuilt tractor.  We've rebuilt the engine and transmission and are now into the differentials.  It's a great diversion for me as it keeps me focused on something positive...kind of a good reason to get up in the morning.

Spring is just around the corner and we should all start feeling the thrill of rebirth and growth after the long hard Winter.  Even us poor downtrodden addicts can still feel alive and hopeful again.  Better days are coming!

J.B.
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JB:
such a delight to get back in town and see your posting. went (read that tagged along) with my wife business trip to gulf port, mississippi. while she was in a meeting i was left to amuse myself in this hotel that was connected to a large complex of casinos. i'm not much of a gambler, but the people watching was great. my wife and i were among the "youngsters" crowd. saturday morning i walked most of the way out on a break water that ex-
tended out into the gulf. the breakwater went south about 1/2 mile and then turned west. nothing much eventful happened, wich for my money is GOOD. all in all i was pretty well behaved. i don't think anyone is pissed off or mad at me.

JB, did you say you were helping a neighbor rebuild a semi-truck
diesel? that sounds like some honest dirt under the finger-nails!
watch out and try and keep as much of the skin on your knucles as
you can. hope your wife is doing as well as can be expected. know
that the 2 of you are in my thoughts and prayers.

keep an angel on your shoulders
kip


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It sounds like you had a wing-ding of a time!  There's nothing like the sea and a casino to lift the spirits in us.  

Yep, it seems my new hobby and maybe livlihood is in the mechanical field.  Word gets around, you know.  Actually, I was a heavy diesel mechanic for over thirty years but am on total disability presently.  I just knew I'd get back into it again someday! I can't do the heavy lifting anymore but I have a couple of teenagers that help me in every way.  It's good for them to learn and it helps me to feel useful again.  

I was hurting tonight when I got home and my wife asked me if I wanted some pain meds.  I was able to say "no" again....don't get me started.  Anyway, 9am comes awfully early and we are going to mount new tires on the old Pete(10 of them).  Be good!

J.B.
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HEY THIS IS MY FIRST POST AND IT HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION
THAT I NEED TO SEEK HELP. I AM GENERALLY A STRONG PERSON ALTHOUGH
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN LIFE I AM IN NEED OF GETTING OFF HYDRO'S ESPECIALLY OXYS. I DO NOT HAVE ANY LEGIT. REASON FOR TAKING THEM ONLY TO GET HIGH. I'VE BEEN TAKING ABOUT 4-40'S A DAY. IT STARTED WITH PERKS BUT THE O.C.'S WAS MY CHOICE. I HOLD A PROFFESIONAL JOB AND AS OF NOW HAS NOT BEEN AFFECTED (YET).
I AM IN THE PROCESS OF TAPERING OFF BUT HAVE NOT YET STARTED.
LIKE THE REST I AM SCARED OF THE WD'S. I HAVE EXP. THEM BEFORE AND I AM SCARED.............I SAW A PROCEDURE WHERE YOU COULD RAPID DETOX. IN 4-6 HRS. UNDER HOSPITAL CARE. I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM IN FOR BUT I HAVE THE DESIRE TO GET CLEAN AND STAY CLEAN. MY PROBLEM IS THAT MY WHOLE LIFE I'VE ALWAYS HAD TO BE HIGH NO MATTER WHERE I GO. I AM A SINGER IN A PART TIME BAND AND IT WAS AND STILL IS A GREAT FEELING TO BE (OXY'D)ON STAGE. IT USED TO BE THE WEEKEND THING ALTHOUGH NOW IF I WENT W/OUT I WOULD CERTAINLY FEEL THE WD. AND I AM VERY SCARED OF THAT. COULD SOMEBODY GIVE ME A PERSONAL OR ANY INSIGHT ON RAPID DETOX OR PLEASE ANY INFO ON THIS PAIN IN THE ASS HABIT I HAVE FORMED?
I ALSO WANT TO APLOGIZE TO ANYBODY USING PAINKILLERS LEGIT.
I HAVE READ THE WHOLE FORUM AND WILL CONTINUE. JUST GETTING TO THE POINT OF WRITING HERE (TO ME)IS THE FIRST STEP AND YOU ALL ARE WONDERFUL PEOPLE. LETS DO IT TOGETHER AS A TEAM.

SEMI-SMILING IN PHILA.                  RONNIE
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WOW

I truly dont know where to start.

I was a heroin addict for three years....i started a methadone prescription to come off...only to find that the methadone withdrawl was much worse...then a 'friend' told me about oxycoton, great....having a serious problem with opiates and desperately wanting to stop the pain i used OC....it was amazing, in an instant it ridded me of any pain of uncomfortableness i waws feeling....i have been using OC for about 3 months now, and im petrified to come off it....a few times i havent been able to get any and i havent felt good, but before the REAL withdrawl kicked in i managed to get hold of some....can somebody tell me...is it harder or easier than heroin/methadone withdrawl??....what should i expect?...what are the differences??.....is there anything (except bloody opiates) that i can take to dull the pain?

i would really appreciate any advice or stories any of you may have that would help....and if anyone would like to ask me anything then please do

thanks

im sooooo thankful for the internet :)
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philly bee a.k.a. the lapper

kathryne,
        well i did it, i went to dtox about two weeks ago and have been clean ever since. i have been going to n.a. meetings and they are really helping. last night was the first night i slepped w\out my legs kicking (i am told it was the methodone)
i feel so relieved from the chains that have broke free. it has
been a long time coming and i feel good. i seem to be fighting the cravings although "JUST FOR TODAY " i will not. started to work out in the gym and that really seems to help my body.
you have all the power to do it ..........
JUST DO IT FOR YOURSELF.........GOD BLESS

PHILLY BEE
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i'm actually just responding to myself here, to the post i wrote a couple days ago.  because i feel okay RIGHT NOW.  and part of me knows that i've only been clean for three weeks and that i can't expect everything to be okay yet.  this is worth it, i know.  i've just got to chill out a little and be patient...hope everyone else is doing well.
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actually, i meant to write that i'm responding to the post i wrote a couple of hours ago, not days.  he he..
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a quick question for anyone who has an answer:
how do you know when the depression you're feeling is no longer a symptom of withdrawl and is now merely back to "who you are."  after all,I, and probably many others of you, became desperate enough to turn to these pills for a reason--because you thought you needed relief from some kind of "unquiet mind".  (well withdrawl taught me one thing: if i thought i was unhappy before, hydrocodone withdrawl showed me that i really didn't KNOW what unhappiness could be.  so, drugs are not a cure-all, after all.)  but just because i've proven i can white-knuckle my way into sobriety this far doesn't mean that i will find happiness at the end of this dark tunnel...life was a pretty shadowy tunnel before i got into this horrible mess, anyways.  what does a naturally depressed person do when they think they've discovered only two options...1)drug addiction that initially creates happiness that you never knew was possible but inevitably leads to the depths of hell that makes the whole thing so not worth it, or 2) no drugs, and consequently, no impending depths of hell, but instead an overall feeling of "life isn't really worth it but it's not nearly as bad as the first week of sobriety cause nothing is that bad."
i'm asking because i've read a lot of posts about how long it takes to getting back to feeling normal and i'm worried that that happy end is not in store for me.  are most of you people who are going through a hard time because you're kicking a horrible drug, but generally feel that once you've kicked it life will be good again?  
i hope i haven't been defeating to anyone in any way.  i firmly do not think hydrocodone is the answer (although i did at one point and for a long time) but i don't know for sure that sobriety isn't just the lesser of two evils.

i'm only asking because i'm desperate...
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I have often thought substance  abuse is a symptom of something much deeper.  I did not like myself to begin with, then my dad-my mom-my last and favorite grandma, all died in years 1995-1997.
One per year, I was in too much emotional and physical pain.  The rehabs never helped me.  I used to address myself as "hi, i'm ava, an addict and reprobate".  I told people I had no soul.
I'd say I used it all up.  It is gone.  I guess I was not a good patient.  Since then, I'm learning to be better to myself, and I think better of myself.  This forum really helps.  You can finally start looking at what is bothering you, now that you are clean.  Each time you use, you lose a part of yourself. I hope my post was not too depressing.  I post what happened to me in hope someone can identify with it, and get better.  Things do get better.
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Well hello all.  I know that I am going to sound like the same thing you have been reading here. However, you guys are about my last hope.
     I have been taking Hydrocodone 10/660's for 4 years.  I take 7 pills in a 24 hour period (Where I sleep about 12).  Obviously this had become a serious problem. I have either tried to or been forced to quit due to outage, and NEVER made it past 3 hours without them until about 3 months ago.  I ran out, and I tried everyplace I knew to get them to no avail.. Finally, after countless hours spent in ER's across 5 towns... I gave up.  I quit cold turkey.  It was absolute HELL for about a week and a half... then, after that the symptoms only seems to subside enough to be able not to cry in pain.  Then, I fell into a BAD depression.  I did not want to kill myself, but prayed that I would die, which is NOT me.  I remember the life I had before this.  I was the bubbly life of the party.  I have robbed myself of my own life.  Well, anyway, FINALLY, one day I woke up and I sat straight up in bed to get up. I was smiling and I SWEAR I had a buzz...lol Like it used to give me. I felt good, I had beaten IT!! My house was being cleaned spotless everyday again, my sleeppattern was normal, and I was singing again. Ah, and memories were flooding back ( I totally had blocked most of 4 years OUT.)  We moved back to the town I loved, my marriage became wonderful again ( Shh, don;t you tell him I admitted it was  my bad!! lol.)  Then, one day I told my friend that I had a headache (sinus), she said: hey I got some pain medicine stuff here If you need some..."  My ears perked up like a doberman on a bone...I said oh YES!! I will be right over. Well I'll be damned if that bottle of liquid hydrocodone didn't turn into 4 more prescriptions...It started the whole damn thing again. I began to feel sick as I did while on the meds.  Don't get me wrong. I felt GOOD on them, but always had a cold, or my chest hurt (it slows down your respiration, bowels, blah blah.)So, here I am again, OUT of the thing that makes me me... I can't be me without it. I don't want it any freaking MORE!!!!! But, I feel even while writing this post that I am craving so bad I would give anything to have 1 danged hydrocodone. Just 1.  But as you all know, 1 is NEVER enough..... How can I beat this thing and take back my life? How can I finally be able to say NO to a Dr. or a friend who offers me pain meds? I am absolutely addicted.  I truthfully do not know if I can make it through what I made it through last time.  I spent 3 nights on the phone with drug councelors- crying, pleading with them to help me.sleeping in the hot bath tub because that is the ONLY time I did not hurt, and I mean hurt BAD.  Please forgive the language here I use and the probable fragments, and interrupted thought patterns, but I can barely think at all. My mind is going nuts  just trying to cope.  That damn stuff steals your life and replaces you with a desgusting, pethetic, lying junkie! I don't want this for my life anymore.  Someone please help me to help me.... Love,  Shaianne
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If i took oxycodone and began to get addicted to them and then started to take hydrocodone would the addiction grow for oxycodone or would i just grow a new addiction towards hydro?
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It would be the same thing.  You can replace one for the other.
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