Day 3 of Withdrawal...here I go again!

[Sadgirl]

Hi all:  Thank God for this forum.  I have been down this road before and unfortunately here I go again!  This is my 3rd day sober from Vicroprofen 7.5 (a doctor started me on this for migranes and gave me 4 refills) and I've been to hell and back.  If only I could keep the symptons of withdrawal in a pocket...so that I never forget how awful it feels.  The pain in my all my muscles feel like tight rubber bands that are going to snap in any minute.  The stomach cramps and chills/sweats, etc.  Now comes the hard part..the mental acceptance..I'm very depressed right now...and just keep reading these pages of testimony to keep me going...to keep me sane.  I tried to contact NA in Bergen County New Jersey...but they do not have a meeting near my town.  Should I go to AA and try to get help from there?  I need something to hold on too...forunately the pain I just went through is enough to "scare me straight"...but I know how quickly we forget...when we remember the high...thank you for listening.

[brian]

Carmen, I know what you are feeling.  It feels like hell and you think it will never go away but it WILL.  You are already heading toward the easier part, just hang in there. Call the NA 800 number to find a meeting (call 800 information).  If no meeting near you, go to AA.  Anywhere where you can find some support and caring.  I too have thought the pain of withdrawal would keep me clean.  It hasn't.  The pain fades from memory, while the highs from narcotics keep getting overly glorified and exaggerated in our minds.  I don't know about you, but each relapse I think how great the drugs will feel, and they feel less great for less time.  Within a few days at most all I am doing is feeding that monkey, hoping it won't turn into a 700 pound gorilla.  So, the moral is, don't rely on memories of withdrawal alone to help you stay clean.  There must be more.  Get in NA, stick with it, try to find a spiritual force in life (whatever it is for you personally) and fill your time with positive things.  Then and only then will you begin to find peace and serenity.  Remember, it sounds like BS sometimes but it really is true--take it one day at a time.  The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.  If we focus on the thousand miles, we will never take that first step.  I don't normally pray (my own hangup), but tonight I am saying a special prayer for you and all those hurting people in this forum.

[shannon]

since this is your third day things should start to get easier, physically anyway.  I am going through the same thing exept with loratabs 10mg. nad I have been taking them twenty a day for almost one year.  feel proud of yourself because you are accomplishing what many people including myself have not been able to do.

[derek]

Dear Carmen,
I know how you are feeling. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Even if you slip once or twice keep the flame alive - you will make it in the end.

[Carmen]

Dear Brian, Shannon and Derek:

Thank you so much for your lovely words of encouragement and wisdom.  It is amazing what the power of love, prayer and support can do!  I am a stranger to you and yet your words reached me and showed me a "Higher Power" at work.  I hurt inside (the physical pains are subsiding), but just reading your messages this morning...gives me hope for today.  I will call my nearest AA group - thank you again - for your prayers and for caring.  I only hope to do the same for someone, someday...Carmen

[brian]

Carmen, I'm glad to hear the physical withdrawal is getting better.  As you know, each passing hour will make it easier.  Then of course the tough part starts...the mental cravings, etc.  Just remember, they too will pass.  Keep everyone posted on how you're doing and stay strong.  Millions have been there before you and have resumed happy, productive lives.  You can too!!

[Neena]

TO CARMEN!
Hang in there...i have been there.  Right now i am still taking the stuff (Vicoden ES) but soon, the stash will run out and i'll be there, unless i can get a hold of some more.  I have stopped before...i found that if i just kindof put it out of my head and went for a long walk i felt much better.  You are on your 3rd day and i think the worst is over for you.  Take walks...volunteer somewhere...withdrawel from codiene will NOT kill you. You have made it through the worst of it...hang in lady.  Rest when you can and take a sleep aid if you have any.  Good luck and you can email me...***@****

[Neena]

ONE MORE THING CARMEN...I forgot...one more thing...When i get really down and am feeling sorry for myself and am suffering from the withdrawels i always sneak into my daughters room at night...(she is 13 mos.) and watch her sleep.  It reminds me how silly all of this nonsense is.  My simple addiction...cannot compare to my love for her...Do you have something or someone in your life that you love more than anything?? more than the pills??  It kind of brings things into perspective for me.  Good luck and email me if ya want to.  ***@****

[derek]

I am also battling to get off the Propoxyphene. My friend (a doctor) helped me to cut down to about 3 capsules per day but over the last week or so I have slipped badly. Yesterday he asked me if I was thinking of suicide. Although I said no I must admit that it had crossed my mind.
Its just that however hard I try I don't seem to be making any headway. Apart from the physical dependance, I'm sure that there is a physchological component to my addiction.
When I read of all the brave people out there who have tackled it and won I feel very humble.
Please somebody - say a prayer for me.

[Brian to Derek]

Derek, part of this horrible disease process is the despair that accompanies getting the drugs out of your system.  We have all been there, and I for one have had fleeting thoughts of ending it all.  I think those are normal when you feel like ****.  If they become anything more than fleeting, you must get some real help, even if that means going inpatient somewhere.  

You may not be able to taper off even with this doctor's help.  If he doesn't know much about addictions, you might be better getting an addiction specialist.  I have been detoxed a few times with Buprenorphine and it makes the detox MUCH easier.  See if this doc knows about it and is willing to try it.  I don't think they have it out in pill form yet, but the intramuscular injections are easy (or he can give them to you).  I was detoxed in 5 days (day one I gave myself the injection every 6 hrs., day 2 every 8 hrs, etc.)

Hang in there, you WILL make it.  The despair will lift and you'll have your life back.  Good luck and I'm praying for you.  Brian

[Katie]

Carmen,how are you doing now? it's been 5 days? are you still having any of the physical struggles? I've been off lortabs for about 1 and1/2 weeks and I feel like you....been to hell and back. Now the mental part is really kicking in. It's hard for me to even get out of bed. Reading the posts here have really helped me, though. I know I'm not alone. Matter of fact I was surprised at how many others are going through this. I didn't even realize that my withdrawals were what they were till I started coming here. The chills and stomach pain and muscle aches...I thought I had the flu, over and over and over. Couldn't figure out why I was sick all the time..now I know.
I start feeling weak and thinking about getting more lortabs and I come here and read some more postings...seems to help keep me strong. But boy do I miss those damn pills!
hang in there...let me know how you're doing.

[Katie from Carmen]

Katie:  Has it been 5 days!! Wow!! I guess these past few days have gone in a blink of an eye.  I am at work right now and keep going back to this forum for reassurance, guidance and healing.  These are the people Dr. Steve, Brian, Derek (how are you doing?), Shannon, Neena and yourself who have helped me keep it together.  To all of you and those who did not write but sent prayers...thank you...thank you!  I don't think I could've gone those 5 days without you guys...truly..and now I wish I can help you, too.  Katie..I really, really pray for your strength.  I miss those pills too..and pray I will not go down that road again!  But, am taking it one day at a time...everyday like Brian said.."one step at a time".  This is what you must do..let the moment pass and keep on living.  Cause I know how numb inside and outside I felt with those pills and that's not living...it's a mask and a make believe world.  We must learn to love ourselves and live again.  Thanks for caring...and hang in there.  I hope others who share in this same pain, know, that you're not alone.  Keep in touch.  My prayers are with you!

[Brian to Carmen]

Your post made me feel so good.  I too take strength from this forum and knowing you are on the way back to the land of the living is very comforting.  Keep focused and don't let the memory of how you felt during the worst of the withdrawal fade.  Remember, don't make the same mistake I have and expect that memory alone to keep you clean.  It won't.  Recovery, I am finally learning, requires work.  It just doesn't happen on its own.  And as someone with 10 years clean said to me, what do you have more important in your life than spending a bit of time keeping yourself alive and well.  You have embarked upon a wonderful journey which will have its mountains and valleys.  "Just keep your eyes on the prize."  Brian

[kelly]

thanks for the words of comfort, brian. I just can't tell you how much it's helped get me through this. down to 2- 10 mg oxy per day, about a week ahead of the plan. are the oxy's too strong to step down from? should I go get something else from the DR to make the final leap, or just suck it up and do it? I stated tapering from 240 mgs per day six weeks ago. I'm jonesing for my 10mg by the tenth hour but I strugle to wait for twelve hrs before taking the next 10mg. it's only been a couple of days like this, but I can't tell if I'm prolonging the misery or keeping the withdraw to a minimum. I be interested in anything you have to say. I really look forward to comung here and reading everyone's story. It's the reason I bumped my taper scheadule early. to try to put an end to all of this, but I'm only so strong. did I mention that I been functioning at work and at home as if nothings wrong, I'm too ashmed to tell the kids daddy fighting a nasty addiction. I don't know what has me more worn down ,the withdraw or the sharade. Either way I've got to find the streangth to see this thing through, and you  all sure have helped. I hope thats of some comfort to some of you.

[brian]

Kelly, your strength in kicking this IS a comfort to all of us.  You can step down from the level you are, but there will be some withdrawal (as you can tell from when you get to the 10th hour).  It won't be horrible, just feeling like **** for 3-5 days.  If you can, get some hydrocodone (vicodin or the like), only a small amount (like 20) and substitute 2 every 6 hrs, then 1.5 every 6 hrs, etc. until you are done.  It would make the final step off a bit smoother.  In addition, if you can get it from your doc, get some clonidine.  It also will make the last few days off easier.  I don't think Xanax of Valium are very good for chemically dependent people; however, I think for a few days they might assist in keeping you comfortable.  Whatever you do, remember, the withdrawal is uncomfortable and feels like it will last forever, but it won't kill you.  We've all been there and made it through and you will too.  Best of luck and keep us posted.  Brian

[Sandi]

Hi Kelly, Just wanted to let you know I come by this forum & lurk often & am rooting for you!! Do it for that baby!!!
Do you guys know what you have done for me? My Mom went through some major hell with pills, she has basically checked out on us 4 times now, each time we had to go through her house & get rid of her stash, well this time instead of flushing them all, I kept some of them "just to see" well, fortunately I did some research on what she had (vicodin, klonopin, percocet & T3's, flushed the tylox & oxycontin) & ended up here and have read your stories BEFORE I took any of them. You have kept me from experimenting with any of them, I have an addictive personality & know I would be right here posting with the gang...thanks for saving me the pain!

[kelly]

I feel myself control getting stronger by the day, yesterday went untill bed time untill I had to take 10mg oxy to stop the twitching and tossing and turning. When I kicked the Vicodin ES last year, it was the same way. I was able to use a pill cutter and take less amd less to help sleep, so I think I'm going to be able to do the same this time until I can sleep on my own. I've been sucking strength from this forum like a newborn to breast milk. Now I have some advise to pass along. Your DR. is not your enemy and did not intentionally cause you to become addicted. We all went to them with problems they tried to help us with. If you have been manipulating the DR., don't be afraid to tell him so. It only helps him understand the lengths to which you will go to abuse the drugs. Your are not in this alone, your doctor is now on your side, and wants to help you get through this as easily as possible. No, he isn't likely to give you the amount of drugs you think you need to feel good. But he will, however, give you what you need to get straight. Determining exactly what that is not an exact science. It may take several attempts at taper scheadules or symptom releivers to make you comfortable. Go ahead and lie to your boss, friends, or wife, but don't lie to your doctor, or yourself for that matter. You want your life back! Say outloud! I WANT MY LIFE BACK!! When your doctor sees the determination in your eyes, or the lack of it, he will know how aggressivly to treat your symptoms. Make a list before your visit, my DR says it makes our visit seem like a board of directors meeting as we check off the items on my list. Most DR's are really busy, they squeeze in as many poeple as they can and cover as much as they can in the short amount of time we have. I was always getting out to the car and remembering what I forgot to ask him or tell him. He only has you as his source of information, so tell him everything. It helps him formulate a complete game plan on how to get you back. I know your angry, at the DR for writing the scrips, at yourself for eating all thoses pills, at the manufacturer for making such good drugs. Don't call the family lawyer and sue everyone, it won't make your journey any shorter, and there are enough frivilous lawsuits on the dockets now. Don't fire your DR, he now understands your perpensity and will help keep you clear from getting addicted again. My DR told me I would not be able to quit the Oxycontin alone when he wrote the scripts. My job is similar to that of an athlete, it makes me hurt everyday. Since it's my buisness, we set a six month time period for me to train an employee to do my job. The problem I have had in the past was to over do it today, which would require more meds the next day and so on. To help that, I left the bottle with the pharmicy and picked up a few days worth twice a week. Each month the DR would ask me about the buisness, he wanted to hear about the employee's progress. After the fifth month, he suggested I start easing up on the reins. We discussed my taper plan and set deadlines for mile markers. Here's where the communication plays a huge role. When he asks "what symptoms are you having?" get out your list. Tell him about the jones you had yesterday, or the double dose you had to have to sleep. In my case, my oxy was still too high, I was enjoying but I knew it wasn't doing me any good, so he gave me some 10mg and some 20mg to help make the trip from 240mg per day. I'm at 10mg at bed time now, but I plan to get something weaker to ease me down to nothing. I read every posted story in this forum, some several times, I know withdraw is a *****, but you don't have to do it alone. Your DR is no more proud of the fact you're addicted than you are, but the both of you will wear the pride of you're getting clean like a badge of honor. This all sounds tright to someone in full withdraw at two AM on a Friday night. If it gets too bad go to the ER and get help. If you can make it through the night but not two more days, then call the DR's exchange and tell him where you're at, I promise you he will not turn a deaf ear. So, hang in there, use the resources available to you, and post your progress here, I think you know how much it helps us all.

[brian]

Kelly, I'm so glad to hear you are doing well.  I agree you must tell your doctor and not blame him/her--they were trying to help, not get you addicted.  However, I must caution people that most doctors do not know much at all about addiction.  They therefore often do not know how to treat withdrawal and may actually end up causing more problems (like giving naltrexone which will precipitate horrible withdrawal).  Others get scared because you are addicted and simply say "go get in a program."  Because of the risk they may do this and will often cut off people's supply of painkillers, I think it is best to find an addiction specialist who will agree to treat you.  Then and only then should you tell your doctor (and mainly so they won't keep supplying you with painkillers after you are clean).  I have learned the hard way that you must at some point tell the dr.'s prescribing the drugs about your addiction because if not, at some point when you are craving you will call and get a refill/new prescription.  Then you're right back where you started.  Anyway, good luck on the end of your taper.  You may want to ask for a little clonidine for the end (and some trazedone for sleep).

[Sheila]

Carmen,
        I have been there and worse ....round and round for years...it doesnt get better....drag yourself to AA & NA....I prefer Narcotics  Anonymous, for the obvious...you need to get an NA sponsor and stick with the people that are staying clean today and are living a life that does not include abusing yourself with narcotics.
        I have just celebrated 4yrs.clean this Dec......I go to AA and NA.....I have an NA sponsor and stay connected on a daily basis with my new friends in the program that are making recovery a priority in there life and I enjoy going to meetings almost every day, we go out to eat after, have cofee, share our new life.....clean.....its a beautiful thing......SURRENDER....She~~~~

[carryl]

Hi Carmen,
I cant say that I know what you are going through because I've never been addicted but sometimes I think I could easliy become addicted. My only advice is to just give your addiction to God.Ask him to help you out of the darkness and believe with all of your heart that he will help you. It will take a lot on your part to resist satan because drug addiction is only from him. God answers prays because my son was on drugs and drinking real bad. He got into trouble with the law and I turned to god and said let your will be done. Well on christmas eve he was arrested and he realized how bad is problems were. He is still serving time in a trustee camp but has found god. He says god has hepled him to see the evils of drugs but you have to wake up thanking god and go to bed thanking god. Pray to saint michael the arc angel to defend you in battle. I hope I have helped and I will start praying for you tonight. God Bless You Carryl

PS My email adress is carryl_h***@**** if you need to talk.

[Kim P.]

Carmen,

Thank you for your honesty, sincerity, and strength.  You remind me to keep trying.  It doesn't matter if it's day 3 for the hundreth time, you keep trying and that's what matters.  I keep telling myself it's when I give up that I die, even though I feel dead right now.  I am so tired of fighting my addiction!

So, here I sit again, knowing that I will have to start to detox off opiates again starting tomorrow.  I want to be clean more than anything in this world!  Why can't I get it?  I had 5 years clean and sober from 1989 to 1994 and I relapsed.  I have not been able to get it together since.  Addiction is so painful, feeling spiritualy dead is too painful!  So, I ask again why can't I just do it?  Being clean were the happiest time in my life.  I felt good about myself, I even worked in treatment with other addicts.  I'm missing something somewhere, what is so desperately lacking in myself that I can't be okay?

Im sorry Carmen I didn't mean to go on and on.  I will pray for you and I will Once again start on day ! in the morning.

[Brian to Kim]

I know the battle you are fighting having been there often enough.  I think the key thing is to STOP FIGHTING and SURRENDER.  If you've been in NA you know what I mean.  You can't fight the addiction, just surrender to the fact you are and always will be an addict.  This means you simply must accept your powerlessness and put your faith in a higher power to help you.  You can do it.  Good luck.

[kelly to brian]

Just woke up to start my fifth drug free day. I haven't slept in three  nights, got four hours last night after all of the twitching and convulsing ended about four o'clock this morning. I hope I can sleep tonight, I'm really tired. It has been three months weening from 240 mg of oxycontin per day to nothing. Every day I jonesed from the step down. I kept asking myself if this was any better than full withdraw. I guess it was the only way to do it without telling anyone. Just can't face the shame of telling everyone. I feel better each day, but its been a long slow journey. I tried the sleeping meds but my jerking and tossing just won't let me sleep, while the meds make me feel loopy the entire next day, so I'm going it alone. I feel bad for those who can't confide in their DR, mine sure has helped me. Brian, if I don't post anymore, it just means i'm still doing well. I imagine I'll be coming back to read your posts for years to come. It is obvious how much of yourself you put into your posts, I can only imagine how much of your time you give to us addicts. If this is your purgatory, Brian, then surely heaven awaits you. Thank you just falls short of what I really want to say.

Kelly

[Brian to Kelly]

Thank you so much for your kind words, they really lifted my mood.  I do try to share as much of my painfully gained knowledge which helps me keep the reality of my addiction in the forefront of my mind.  Take care of yourself and congratulations.  I know you don't feel great right now but you are getting your life back and I guarantee you will feel much better soon.  The insomnia will lift, but if you want something to help with sleep that will not make you loopy the next day there are options.  Trazedone is an antidepressant which happens to work well for sleep.  I use it whenever insomnia strikes, it is not addictive and doesn't make you in a fog the next day.  Ambien is a wonderfully short acting sleeping pill.  It hits in about 5-10 minutes after you take it and it has a very short half life.  It won't keep you asleep for more than a few hours so it isn't great if your problem is staying asleep, not falling asleep.  However, it does not make you at all tired the next day because it is out of the system so fast.  Anyway, normal sleep patterns do take time to return but they will.  Be good to yourself.  Brian

[Kim P. to Brian]

Thank you, Brian, for your response.  You are deffinitely right about surrendering.  That is so easy to do when you still have a little bit of drug left in your system.  I always feel so sure of my self.  I always feel very positive, I'm sure I know what it's going to take and that I can do it.  Then my first day without the Heroin arrives and I start to feel panic.  Then the sweating and cold chills set in, the loss of energy and so on.  I know I am my own worse judge and enemy.  I know that I am going to have to go through a period of being uncomfortable in order to get the benefits of recovery.  I am a very strong person, but I feel so weak and inadequate when it comes to my addiction.  It helps so much to read what everyone else is going through.  Thank you Brian, thank you all for being here!!!  It helps to knoww that I am not on this journey alone.

[kelly for brian]

I need help. After ten days with a total of ten hrs sleep(4hrs one night then two hrs the next followed by several days of no sleep at all. I'm on a big high profile job with all eyes on me and I had to get some rest to perform. The trazodone makes me sleepy but just cant get past the twitching long enough to fall alseep. I took 1/4 percocet and slept four hours. I felt better the next day but still tired. That night took another 1/4 then woke up four hours later and ate a second 1/4 to go back to sleep. From the sound of it ambien won't keep me sleeping, but I'm going to try it this weekend. I hate the thought of relapsing. Funny how I knew exactly what to take to get to sleep. I guess I should have trown all my pills away. I thought I was increasing my self control by leaving the temptation in the house, maybe I was just kidding myself. I tried to sleep each night on my own, but after several hours of watching 5:00 am ticking closer I revert to the percocet. I don't have any cravings during the day, I just can't sleep. The two times I slept without the percocet was induced by trazodone but only after tossing several hrs and I felt bad the entire next two days. I don't want to sub one drug for another but I can't seem to sleep on my own. Any ideas Brian?

[Brian to Kelly]

Lack of sleep during and after detox is something that I don't think gets addressed enough.  It is very difficult to stay off the drug when you can't sleep.  I've been there and I think it is one of the worst feelings: tossing and turning all night, feeling alone, tired but twitching, watching the clock until morning.  First, don't beat yourself up about using the percocet.  Not a good idea, but understandable.  I know it is REALLY hard, but if you can get rid of it.  If you can't it will be just unbearably tempting to use it.  Next, Ambien is a good option because to get even a few hours sleep makes you feel better.  Furthermore, you can take it again to go back to sleep.  If you took 1 at 11:00 p.m. you'll sleep until 1:00 or 2:00, then take another.  They don't have a cumulative effect so you won't feel drugged the next day or endanger yourself.  Doctors usually don't mind prescribing Ambien because it has a very limited abuse potential.  Another important thing to remember is THIS WILL PASS.  I know it feels like you will never sleep again.  You will.  I've had the same exact problem and it always goes away within a few more weeks.  Next, I also have a high profile job and I know that is a concern.  However, you would be amazed how you can function with little sleep for weeks on end.  Unless you are a truck driver or airline pilot you'll be okay.  In addition, lack of sleep will not kill you.  I know it gets you down and you hate it but it really is just your body's way of letting you know you pushed it too far in the other direction.  The painkillers slowed it down unnaturally and now it is going too fast.  It will reorient itself soon, so hang in there.  Finally, whatever you do DON'T USE THIS AS A REASON TO REALLY RELAPSE.  The only thing you will do is guarantee a return of this.  Get some meds from your doctor (even a benzo is okay short term) and wait it out.  I'll be praying for you.  Brian

[kelly for brian]

THANKS, I NEEDED THAT.
JUST TOOK AMBIEN FOR THE FIRST TIME
GOODNIGHT I HOPE
TALK TO YOU SOON
KELLY

[Brian to Kelly]

How are you?  Hope you got some sleep.  Let us know how you're doing.  We're praying for you. Brian

[kelly for brian]

The ambien worked for the few nights I needed it to. I've slept on my own for the past five nights. I'm starting to feel normal again. As the pain of my disk returns, I'm wondering if I'll ever be able to take a pain pill again like a normal person, or have I permenently altered my body chemistry. Are there any other pain meds that are not addictive? Does accupuncture work? Can a chiropractor help a ruptured disk? Will phys. therapy strenghthen the surrounding muscles enough to compensate for the loss of disk material. I'm only 37. I think I'm too young to be in this kind of pain for the rest of my life. Has anyone had back surgery that actuall reduced the pain while maintaining mobility? I think I have to find a solution for my back pain to have a chance of staying off the opiates. I've been so preoccupied with getting off the meds that I didn't plan for the return of the pain. What do the other drug addicts do?
Thanks,
Kelly

[Brian to Kelly]

I'm really glad you're starting to feel normal.  Being able to sleep again really helps improve your mood.  I have a herniated disk myself.  I've done physical therapy a few times, and accupuncture also.  They do help, but have differing results in different patients.  You need to try these different modalities to see if one works for you.  If the pain is very severe you either need surgery or can try an injection of steroid directly into the back.  This procedure works to significantly reduce pain in about 50%-66% of patients.  Although temporary, the relief can last for months.  With respect to the pain meds, the bad news is that once you are addicted to a narcotic, permanent changes take place.  First, your tolerance never returns to "normal."  It will go down, which is why it is critical for people who relapse not to take whatever dosage they were taking before they got clean since they may overdose.  However, even though the tolerance goes down, it comes back VERY fast (usually in days, sometimes in weeks).  So, if you start taking painkillers again it had better be under supervision and for a very short time.  Otherwise you will get addicted and will need increasingly larger amounts simply to maintain.  The pain relief will not be adequate unless you have a doctor that will prescribe ever increasing dosages.  Not a good road to travel.

[Kelly for Brian]

Thanks for getting back to me so soon. I guess I already knew the answer about the pain meds. I won't be travling down that road. I'll try anything before surgery. I know a handful of men who had fussion surgery and are still in alot of pain, not to mention the loss of mobility. I'm holding out for advaces in the technology. Meanwhile thanks for all of your advice. I think about the long journey from 240 mgs of oxycontin per day, every day. Those first months tapering were absolute agony. With the exception of the three nights I ate the 1/4 percocets to sleep ten days ago, I haven't had a pain pill since 3/19/00, thanks to some of your solid advice. I, too, am not very religous, (same hang-up I guess) but I think about all of the people here often. I have two beautiful children,13 & 5, and my best friend brought my new god daughter home from the maternity ward (just one of triplets), my wife is still here after the ordeal, and life is good. There's so much to enjoy and so little time, I'm so glad to have my life back and I plan to embrace it each and every day. Brian was right in one of our first posts, I could do it and it didn't kill me. There is hope for us all, I'm absolutely certain of it.

[to Kelly from Isabelle]

I have been reading your letters and, it sounds like your doing great!!! I am going through this horrible addiction myself, so I am well aware of EXACTLY what everyone is going through, anyway, if you are still having trouble sleeping there are a few natural supplements you can take that will help. Try taking, Passion Flower 1-2 330mg tabs before you go to bed, also Kava Kava, at bedtime 1-2 450 mg tabs.God that looks alot like a prescription, I hope that dosen't make anyone in here relapse !!!!!My really good friend works in an excellent health food store and she knows alot about this stuff.But, of course, before you take anything make sure you are not taking somthing that you could be allergic to or that there is anything else that you are taking that may interact with one of these!!!!!! Good luck I can honestly say I know what your going through!!!!! Oh, one more thing a good "natural" herb that helps with withdrawl is Siberian Ginseng, it helps your whole body balance out it's kinda like a withdrawl support!!If anyone wants to talk or has any questions I am more than happy to do anything I can to help.

[kelly]

thanks for the advice.  I am sleeping normally now and i am still off the pain meds. it's been awhile since i been here but i'm still thinking about all of you. those of you who are quittng, stay strong. those of you just getting started with the process, its gets better, honest.

[kelly]

I quit smoking pot two weeks ago. Since I stop the pain meds, the pot only seemed to make me nervous. Before I got addicted to opioids, I really enjoyed smoking pot. I smoked several times a day, every day, for 23 years. I've wanted to stop because of the time and money I spent on it, but I really enjoyed it, so I never did. Since detoxing off the pain meds, I was enjoying it less and less until I found myself regretting smoking shortly after each time I smoked. At first I thought "oh great now I even screwed getting high up", but after weighing the +'s and
-'s I decided it was best to quit. I had been using the pot to work through the pain of my disk, but now that I've stopped, the pain is alot more noticable. I went to the DR I thought was such a good friend, and he wanted to give me more pain meds. I declined telling him that I didn't want anything I could get addicted to. He left the room and returned with a grocery bag of Ultram. He asked me if I had ever taken it. I knew it sounded familure, but I couldn't remember where I had heard the name. He told me to take four per day and that it was non-narcotic, and more importantly, non habit forming. After taking the first pill, I knew it was just like the opioids I was just addicted to. I came to this forum that night only to find where I had heard the name before, from people here who are addicted to it. I became very upset that I had taken it but wanted to give my DR the benifit of the dought. I went to the pharmacy and got the manufacturer's spec sheet on the drug and asked the pharmacist if it was safe for me to take as directed(he knows I'm an opioid addict). He said at four per day I would build a tollerance to it and need to increase the dosage, then I would start to become dependant, but that if I only took it for extream pain once or twice a day, I would probibly be OK. The "probibly" part of his answer made me uncomfortable, so I read the specs from the manufacturer. It says in at least three different places that the drug should not be given to opioid addicts, and just like it said, when the drug wore off I began to have mild withdraw symptoms once again. I know this is a long story , but I'm coming to the point. The two men that helped me wean from the pain meds and certainly knew the leval of my addiction, are now perfectly willing to help me get back on opioid type pain meds. This has shattered my confidence in both men. I ask myself why. What could be their motivation for getting me strung out on pain meds? The only answer I can come up with is the money. The doctor got 80 dollars per month to write the scripts and the pharmacy got big money for the oxycontin I was taking. I don't know how much the Ultram cost since the DR gave me free samples. I know it's a serious charge to level, and almost to horrible to imagine, but as my buisness partner said, "it IS the BUISNESS of medicine". I called the rehab center at the local hospital to get a referal to an addiction specailist. The person on the phone said I probibly need to sit in on some NA meetings to help stay off the drugs. I'm going next Tuesday for an evaluation, we see where it goes from there. Once again, this forum has come to my rescue, thank you everyone.
P.S. I couldn't help but to notice what an ******* Imus3 is. Man get a clue, you obviously have way too much time on your hands.

[Brian to Kelly]

Hi.  Good to see you're back and doing pretty well.  As to Imus3, couldn't agree with you more.  The fact that he posts even now to the alt.drugs.hard forum shows he isn't yet serious about his addiction.  (I used to go there often in the midst of my addiction, and, thinking I remembered his name I went back recently and found his posts).  With respect to the Ultram, as you already know BEWARE.  I too had a doc who knew about my addiction tell me she would prescribe it because "it's not a narcotic."  Because it is a schedule IV or V medication, and is not a "narcotic" (although it binds to the opiate receptors so it may as well be), many docs STILL think it is safe.  Most aren't prescribing it because they just want money, they simply are so busy in this day of managed care that they tend to want to prescribe something because it is quick and easy.  AND many patients think they are being shortchanged without getting a prescription for something.  So, I doubt it is the money, just ignorance driving their prescribing to you.  Needless to say, stay away from Ultram.  With respect to pot, I smoked it on and off for 15 years or more.  I don't think it is the worst thing you can do, but...it could be a gateway back to the painkillers.  Also, if it feels bad now, trust your body.  Finally, each time I have relapsed (probably 10 times now) it wasn't because I was feeling bad.  It usually was I was feeling good and started thinking I'd feel even better if only I had some painkillers.  I guess why I'm saying this is to beware.  It's easy to keep your guard up when you're going through a tough time because you know that is a "trigger" for using painkillers.  Don't let your guard down when you feel ok either.  Boy, I sure am longwinded tonight.  Guess I haven't posted much lately.  Anyway, good to hear from you and take care of yourself.  Brian

[kelly for brian]

After cooling off a bit, I realized your probibly right about the Doc. It just pissed me off to come so close to dissaster after everything I been through. I talked to the addiction Doc and he told me I screwed up by not going to him for my detox. He said his patients don't suffer for three months weening. Myself, I think the missery has been a source of strength and I continue to draw upon it to stay clean. I saw a very conservative surgon who put me on anti-inflamatorties and phys therapy for my back. I hired some good guys to help me with the work load. The combination of all three is bound to help. I'm staying clear of the Ultram, as well as all the other pain pills and so far so good with the pot. It's been almost a month now, and I feel really good; no more chest pain, easier breathing, no sweating bullets when the police pull up behind me at a traffic light. I miss it when I'm driving the most, because that's where I did most of my smoking.I bought myself some cd's and I treat myself to my favorite music when I drive. It's not quite the same, but it's helping to fill the void. I picked that up from a NA counsilor, not the music part just the need to fill the void with something wholesome. Well, thanks for taking the time. I'm clean, I'm happy, I'll be here often if you want to say hello.

[Brian to Kelly]

Great to hear you're still doing well.  Filling the void after stopping using is SO important.  I think a lot of people sit around and expect to just feel better without doing anything.  Since some depression is common after stopping using, especially with painkillers, filling the time and finding something you enjoy is critical.  I know exercise may not be an option right now but if you can, even minimally (like walking) it does help to make you feel better.  Not only does exercise release endorphines which lifts the mood, it also makes you feel better about yourself.  Anyhow, stick with NA, fill your time and you'll be surprised how well you will feel.  Take care, Brian

[kelly for brian]

STILL OFF THE DRUGS. STILL READ YOUR POSTS. I REALLY GET ALOT OF STRENGTH FROM KNOWING OTHERS ARE STAYING CLEAN AS WELL. I WAS AS STRUNG OUT AS ANYONE I'VE MET HERE, BUT I NOW HAVE A MUCH FULLER LIFE. I DONT SPEND TIME OR MONEY GETTING AND DOING DRUGS. I SLEEP BETTER AND FEEL MORE RESTED. MY FREINDS TELL ME MY LONG ABSENT SENSE OF HUMOR HAS RETURNED. I'M ENJOYING MY LIFE INSTEAD OF JUST GETTING THROUGH IT. I HOPE THIS ALL FEELS AS GOOD FOR SOME OF YOU TO READ AS IT DOES FOR ME TO WRITE. ALTHOUGH KICKING THE HABITS IS SOMETHING WE MUST ALL DO FOR OURSELVES, THERE IS STRENGHTH IN NUMBERS, WHETHER HERE, NA MEETINGS, OR JUST SOMEONE CLOSE. MY STORY IS POSTED ABOVE, BUT IF ANY OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK, I'D LOVE TO HELP. BRIAN, YOU'RE A GOOD GUY, IT'S GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU. I'LL BE BACK SOON.
KELLY

[Mark]

I would like to thank all of you for posting your stories. I have never had trouble with pain killers until eight months ago. I just kept on taking more of them so I could keep working seven days a week and re-injuring my neck. I did not realize I had become addicted until six weeks ago. I knew I would have to withdraw from them and decided to just do it cold turkey. By day two I was miserable. Thats when I got on the net and found this site by sheer luck ( and desperation ) ! It is day five and I am feeling much better. It was no fun but better than the road I was on. Thanks to you all for your stories and advice, they made this much easier for me. I will not go down this road again! I think I have been warned sufficiently. Good luck to all of you!

Mark

P.S. Kelly, ask you doctor about putting yourself in traction at home. It will relieve the presure on the disk and allow it to recede somewhat. This will relieve the pressure it puts on the nerve. My neurologist recommends the "over the door" traction device rather than the more expensive models.

[kelly for mark]

thanks for the advice, I'll ask the doc the next time I see him. I'm on the phys therapy for now and am going to see the doc after six weeks of that. I too kept taking more pain pills to work through my pain. But as you have already started to realize, the end result to that is addiction to what ever you are taking. I strongly suggest that you talk with you doc about the addiction symtoms you have been experiencing, he can help. If it gets any worse or you think you may not be able to do it alone, then don't. There are poeple who can help, if you let them. Brian has been alot of help for me. Stay strong, it only gets better from here!

[Mark]

DAY 7 !!!!! My personality is back, and my warped sense of humor. Unfortunately, Bill Clinton is still president ! It will take me years to de-tox from him! LMAO !!!!!!

[kelly]

It's great to hear that you're still doing so well! I was wondering what your plan is to deal with your neck pain, if it is still bothering you. When I've over done it at work, and my back starts to hurt, or when I really need to kick ass at work, I get tempted to ease back into my old ways. I have to stop and remember how quickly I went from a couple of Vicoden Es after a hard day, to 3-40mgs oxycontin before work and three more after. You sound like you have a handle on it, remember what the last seven days have been like and you'll do great!  I voted for Clinton, I'm still dealing with the shame.

[Mark to Kelly]

That Clinton comment made my day. I wonder if he feels my pain ?
Things are mostly OK. This has been like watching a fog lift. Knowing what was there but slowly beginning to see the details clearly. I have had a couple of low spots but they have passed. Boy did I lie to myself ! I feel MUCH better most of the time, but am having a lot of trouble going to sleep, even with OTC sleep aids. They have no effect. I am taking Lodine (entodolac) for my neck. It is an anti-inflammatory. I tried celebrex six months ago but insomnia and dizzyness are two of the rarer side effects. I would literally jump out of my sleep. I seem to be a side effect magnet. Entodolac is much better. It can be taken as a one shot thing, you don't have to let it build up in your system like you do with celebrex. I am using the traction device and doing the exercises I learned in physical therapy ( especially the stretching stuff ). Next week I plan to use some of this exercise equipment that I have been hanging clothes on. It is a lot more work than swallowing a couple of pills but if that fog had gotten any thicker I may have forgotten that there was anything else out there at all !

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

I haven't checked here in a few days and I was so happy to hear how well you're doing.  I also draw strength from the people in recovery and I appreciate every day so much more now than ever before.  Take care of yourself and PLEASE don't get complacent.  If I had a dollar for every time I relapsed while thinking things were going well I'd be retired.  Anyhow, thanks for your kind words.  Brian

[kelly for mark]

Possibly the most troublesome withdraw symptom I had was not being able to sleep. I would jerk and twitch uncontrollably when I tried to sleep. It took about two weeks to get a good night sleep naturally. I'm sorry if that sounds like forever to you now. Brian turned me on to a great sleeping aid call Ambien. It kicks-in, in about 10 or 15 minutes and leaves your system in about four hours. It didn't help me during the first rough nights, but as the detoxing advances, it's effectiveness increases. Untill your at the level that you can drift off to sleep, I suggest not fighting the sheets and go head and get up. I found that watching TV or working at the computer took my mind off of the fact that I wasn't able to sleep yet. I got alot of book work done, so I felt that it wasn't I total loss. AS morning approaches turn the volume down on the TV and try to rest on the couch. If you find yourself able to drift off around sunrise, as I did, consider a personal day if you can, and take advantage of it. I have my own company, so it wasn't an option for me, but if you have sick days available to you, I just can't tell you how those first four or five hours of sleep will help your wellbeing. I finally got mine one Saturday and when I emerged from the bedroom around noon, I truely felt as if I had turned the corner. As for politics, I'm not looking forward to November, I've worn out my purple satin cloth and I'm fresh out of ashes. Take care of yourselve and I'll talk to you soon.

[Mark to Kelly]

This sleep thing is really kicking my ass. I am exhausted, muscles ache, no sleep. I re-read all the posts, I had the same pattern you did: day 6 - slept 4 hours, day 7 - 2 hours, day 8 - 1 hour (maybe), day 9 - about 30 minutes around sunrise. I am tired but still "plugged in" or something, I don't know. A friends wife gave me some klonapin (or klonipin). She said to take 1/2 of a 0.5 mg tablet. I did, slept 3 hours. I took a whole one the next night, slept 5 hours. Here is the problem. I am not working right now, this was a planned 2-3 month sabatical between jobs so I could finish the two remodeling jobs and wrap up 4 years of tax issues from the photo studio. I am a programmer. I was sick of working all day in the office and then nights and weekends remodeling or at the studio. The lortabs and codine phosphate helped me get through 24 - 30 months of this stuff but when I quit I got sick. (I could always just quit before) I wont tell the long version, Where I was doesn't matter, only where I am now. I will be taking drug tests soon as part of the interview process. The last thing I need in my system is a psychotropic drug. What is Ambien ? Can you or Brian tell me how long this lack of sleep may last ? I was on and off the codine for 30 months but stayed on consistantly since July 1999, accelerated my intake in Dec 1999 and REALLY accelerated when I left the last job almost 3 months ago. I have read a lot about "surrender" in these forums and I may be out of line with this comment, but I don't think surrender is an answer, I want to fight. Please pass the ammunition if there is any available.

Mark              

P.S. I have some answers to your questions about fusion surgery. I will post them later. Sorry this was so long, next time I will include some jokes or something ! By the way, who is this IMUS ******* ? I used to be a plumber but I NEVER ran a sewer line large enough to handle that much **** !

[kelly for mark]

I sorry to hear you're having a rough time. Trust me when I say it will pass. I know thats not much consolation, but it's the truth. Your body needs this time to adjust to the lack of opioids. The ambien is a sleeping pill and it works pretty good after the pain meds are out of your system. It's best property is that it has a short half life and won't leave you groggy the next day. Man, hang in there, it's going to get so much better, and it should start real soon now. Nine days off the pain pills is a great start to taking your life back from the pill bottle. Eat well, it helps the stomach cramps. Use Amodium for the diarea (diarrhea), it also helps the tight feeling in your gut. Try to remember that what your going through now is only a transitional phase and every day will be alittle better than the day before. I treated myself to ice cream and it helped take my mind off the jones. I'll have to deal with the extra pounds, but it really seemed to help that I was doing something wholesome for myself. Your working hard at staying clean and you deserve a treat. I'll talk to you tomorrow, try to get some sleep, even if it's just conscience rest.
Kelly

[Mark to Kelly]

This whole thing has been really strange. I beat the physical symptons while sleeping 2-3 hours a night, had a couple of short lived emotional lows, and then expected everything to get better. Thats when the real insomnia kicked in. Thats what caught me off guard ! I don't have any drug cravings, I guess I am to mad at myself for that. I have an unlimited supply of codine through a relative who is much older and has far more pain than I do. He is 71, still works his ass off. Rebuilds small aircraft engines, disaster relief work, the list is endless. I have been there twice this week and turned down the offers for the drugs. This is day 13 and guess what ! I have developed a severe sinus infection in the last two days !!!! (it's a pollen thing) I am sick as a dog, running a fever, AND I SLEPT 9 HOURS LAST NIGHT !!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand it and don't care. I have never been so grateful for being this sick in my life ! I was going to call the doc for anti-biotics like I usually do but figured I did not want to mess up my new found sleep !    

I know several people who have had fusion surgery. They are all fine. One guy had 3 disks in his neck fused at the same time. He was up and about in less than two weeks. More details when I dig up my pathology book. Thanks for the encouragement !!! It really helps !

Mark

[kelly for mark]

Hey, where ever the sleep comes from, don't argue. Day 13 is probibly close to the time you would have started sleeping anyway, I'm just sorry your sick to boot. I found the codine to be extreamly uneffective after two years on the Vicoden and the Oxycontin, so it didn't do much for me when I got my hands on it. As you read, I did use percodan to sleep when I thought I was at my wits end. However, what I found was that it prolonged the detoxing period and added a few more sleepless nights instead. Take my advice, which is the same advice Brian gave me, stay away from the pain meds. Your doing realy well, and soon you will be sleeping regularly and feeling like your old self. The first two times I was addicted, the only symptoms of withdraw I had was not sleeping. In fact the first time, I didn't even know that was the reason I couldn't sleep. It was only after it happened again that I knew for sure it was the Vicoden. But like I said, it will pass, and you will feel better. Try this for an emotional boost: You are beating the addiction that has held you hostage. You are taking control of the scariest thing some poeple ever have to face. And from the sound of it, you are kicking it's ass! I know thats hard to see from where you are at right now, but it's true and soon you will see it clearly. Stay strong and I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Kelly

[jeff]

I just recently started reading about my new found addiction.  Though it's troubling, it helps knowing that there are others with the same problem.  I am presently participating in a what seems to be a good tapering program.  I "self medicated" myself with 160-240 Oxycontin a day.  For three days I was prescribed 40mgs tid.  Then for three days 20mgs tid.  Presently I am taking  10 mgs tid and in two days am scheduled to go to 10 mgs bid.  Finally I am supposed to take 10 mgs once a day for three days to  conclusion of treatment.  The withdrawals are manageable, but I would like to ask the more experienced fellow addicts about the outlook of my success of eventually completely weening.  It seems  as though it will be possible.  Or am I heading for the worst of  my journey ahead?  Any advice is appreciated.  Thanks.

[Kelly for Jeff]

I was at the same levels of Oxy when I started to taper. I found that ten Mgs was the lowest I could go. I tried cutting the pills to go below that, but they didn't have the timed release they are designed for and I started having withdraw after about six hours. I asked my DR. for percocets because the Oxy is really a timed release form of Percocet. I was then able to take one every four hours. Then one every six hours. Then I used a pill cuter to go to 3/4 every six hours. Then 1/2 every six hrs. Then 1/4 every six hrs. You are taking less medication each time you step down, which is the opposite of what your body wants you to do. As you build tollerance to the drug you need more not less, so you will probibly feel crappy the whole time. However it is bearable, and at 1/4 Percocet every six hrs you can ease to 1/4 every twelve hrs. Then 1/4 at bed time. I stayed I each level for three days. The first day is rough, second a bit better, and the third good enough to give you the stregnth to go to the next level. Here's the bad news, I didn't sleep for a week after I stepped completely off the meds. If you've read my post above, you see I went through some rough days for a while, but it gets better. Once you start to sleep, it gets better daily. Sounds like you're doing pretty well. Stay on the taper plan and keep off the pain meds after you quit completely, and you will do fine.

[kelly for mark]

How are doing today? Did you sleep last night? Let us know how you are doing. I hope the sinus infection is getting better. God knows you have enough to deal with already. Remember to be good to yourself when ever you can. I found it realy helps my mood. I'll check back later tonight, otherwise I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Kelly

[Kelly just checking in]

I'm still clean and it feels great! Hope you all are doing OK. Drop me a line, I come here often.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

Hi.  Glad to see you're clean and doing well.  It's amazing how once you stop using painkillers you realize how there are so many things to do instead of sitting around using pills.  I still feel like a kid in a candy store, just trying to grab as much of life as I can.  I can't believe I used to think fun was popping some pills and watching t.v.  Anyway, great to hear from you.  Take care. Brian

[ROCKPIPE]

I HAVE BEEN ON VICODIN FOR 5 YRS. WANT TO WITHDRAW AND NEED HELP TERRIFIED OF WITHDRAWALS DUE TO DEPRESSION, ETC. HAVE MED. INS. BUT I DON'T WANT TO BE THROWN INTO A DETOX AND SUFFER. HAVE A BACK AND KNEE PROBLEMS. LOSING MY BUS. BECAUSE I CAN'T WORK UNLESS I TAKE VICODIN. NEED HELP.

[kelly to rockpipe]

You can ween yourself off of the Vicodin. It's not pleasant, but it won't kill you. A detox DR told me that his patients don't suffer, and that I messed up by weening myself and not going to him. Either way you go, it's better than living your life out of a pill bottle. I was in the same place you are, eating pills to work through the pain so my buisness thrived. Now I have employees helping with the work load and I get to rest when I need to. I now listen to my body and when it tells me I need a rest , instead of reaching for some pills, I rest. A freind once equated what I was doing to placing your hand on a stove burner. That fact the pain pills kept the pain at bay didn't negate the realality that I was burning my hand, or in my case hurting my back. I wish I could tell you it was easy for me to get off the pain meds, but it wasn't. I still fight the urge to call the DR. and get a script. The first two months of weening down were, well, lets just say they were tuff. But if you don't get started, it will never get better. Trust me it gets better. I'm pill-free, and I love it. I loved the feeling of gaining control over my life so much that I then quit smoking pot, which I had done four or five times a day for twenty three years. The sense of well being I now have is better than any buzz I ever caught. I hope I've given you some encouragement. I definately tried not to bullshit you. Let us know how you are doing.
Kelly

[Carmen to Brian]

Hi Brian: Just wanted to "thank you" once again for all your help and this time I'm writing to you with a clear head and a grateful heart.  It's been 4 months!!! Finally, finally I feel better and am back with the living.  Kelly we can relate BIG TIME - how good for you!  And for everyone else suffering with this disease...there is hope...one day at a time, does become 2, 3, etc.  The only good thing that came out of all this pain and addiction for me, was knowing there are good people out there in the world and I only hope that someday I can help someone too.  I come here often to read the posts and re-read mine (the first one on this page).  Once again, thank you, and anyone going through this - please, please hang on, get help and this too shall pass.

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

You're very welcome.  I'm glad I was helpful and I'm so glad to see you're doing well and have your life back.  In the midst of the addiction it is SO hard to believe you can ever feel good again.  That's why I stay here and try to offer some hope to people that there is a better life.  Success stories like yours make my day.  Thanks!

[heather]

I have just read all the stories. I have been trying to get off pain pills for a year now . Every attempt at it has failed. I cannot handle the pain of withdrawel. I have three young children and have been married five years. I have never battled anything so hard in my life. My husband Takes them also . He is on lortabs10 for his back. I need help in getting clean cause that is what I want more than anything. All great stories. I am open for any suggestion. Thanks a bunch. Heather

[Brian to Sick and Scared § ALL you guys]

If I had a dollar for every time someone said they couldn't get clean...you can, just as I did and millions of others have.  The good news is that today there are drugs to make withdrawal nearly painless.  The best is buprenorphine.  Try to find an addiction medicine specialist or an outpatient clinic to detox you using this drug.  It will be an easy detox and then you need to get in NA or some other program to try and stay clean.  Good luck.

[Bob K]

Heather the advice that Brian just gave you he gave to me sometime back. I did what he said and tomorrow will be my 18th day without any opiates at all. Im starting to feel much better. p.s. my teenage daughters who come to be with me every other weekend have told me that i seem so much more relaxed. I asked one daughter what seemed different and she said I seemed like her dad when she was little. I had no idea that oxy was making me different. Good luck you can do it also Bob K

[debbie]

Hey guys, i just happen to stumble on this site while i was looking up trazedone,somthing my doc put me on to help me sleep,and I got real wrapped up in ya'lls posts.  My heart goes out to each and every one of ya'll and my prayers too.  I have a brother in law who had two discs removed and although he lives with his pain, he refuses to take meds for it.  You guys are so strong to be able to face what has happened to you.  All I can say is, have faith in god and pray to Him because He hears our prayers and He WILL deliver you from your affliction, just trust Him.  I'm not trying to be some kind of whatever you want to call it, just know that this post site will be in my prayers and
I will come back to it to see how ya'll are doing...hang in there...Debbie

[oscar73]

I just moved to a new state and haven't found a pain doc yet. I was on Methadone 30 BID and percodan 5-5x's a day. I have been out of med. for 3 days and just want to dye from all the phy. sxs. I am having. I have FMS and have been on pain med. for 16 yrs. I would like to know how long these horrible phys. sxs. are going to last? I know the pch. sxs. will be around forever, but right now I need to get out of bed and can't.
Cathy  

[DirtyJer_z]

Hi Cathy,

You will want to post this in it's own topic. Just click on the Post a Question button at the top of the page. This is just an old topic and a lot of people don't check those often.