Day 9 and still no sleep - need help

I'm on day 9 (made an error in other posts, wishful thinking) and I am still having a great deal of trouble getting any sleep.I have been using valarian tea and getting some slight calming from that. Last night I took a valium and was able to get a few,interrupted hours of sleep.

I was on 4 per day of Lortab (5/500) for about a month and a half before back surgery for sciatic pain. Following the surgery I was on Percocet (7.5/325), a total of 17 over 4 days. I had been bed ridden from the sciatic pain for about 3 months, so I'm also recovering from loss of muscle strength from that.

I've been doing a couple walks a day, up to about a mile, which is about my limit following surgery.

If anyone as any suggestions on how to get some sleep or comments on how long I might expect this to continue, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm going to try to make it out to get some melatonin today to see if that helps

[conhall]

Hello bayabaa,
I also had trouble sleeping during wds I suffered horribly then I finally got smart about it and I  tried another approach I tried not to stress about the sleep thing I would say okay if I am not gonna sleep then I will watch some good movies at least and I did get some good movies in and got caught up on all of some Netflix stuff I wanted to watch  then I also started exercising and also went for long walk early evening and then I would also try and ride my elliptical and then a nice hot bath and I used yummy bubble bath and epson salt to relax me and no caffeine past 3 pm it worked I finally slept 5 hours straight and each night it got better.
It didnt happen overnight It took awhile but I just started working on it and stayed positive and now i am sleeping like a baby better than I have in years I slept last night 10 hours . I dont wake up and feel sick like I used to when I was on pills. Life is better I feel like each day My body is healing more and more. Good Luck and keep posting :)))

[solost170]

oh I understand the no sleep thing, I posted so much about that one myself by day nine i wasnt sleeping either I can give you advice on what I did to help me get my zzz's. first I would take a very hot shower right before going to bed no caffeine in the evenings I would try to avoid caffeine as much as possible till you even out. then I would put my comfy jammies on and watch tv til I kinda got a lil sleepy then I would turn off the lights get is as dark and quiet as I could I couldnt have any noise or forget it. then I would get my room cold heat at night was not my friend it made my rls worse its diff for everyone though. oh yes one more thing I would eat a bowl of raisin bran to get my tummy full that helped me get sleepy to. and if all that failed I would just get up and go in the living room and watch tv I found the more I thought about wanting to go to sleep the more freaked out I got cause I wasnt sleeping. staying calm and relaxed will help alot plus try the melaatonin many have sweared by it I used nothing to help me sleep I think I started sleeping more around day 17 but I was taking medications for almost six years and that plays a huge role in how long your recovery is. hang in there those zzzz's will be on there way very soon.

[Bayaba]

So, 17 days for you before you started sleeping more. I'm only a week away from that, I think I can make it that long. I just went to Walgreen's and got some melatonin and I'm going to give that a try tonight. Can anyone advise me on how much of it I can take?

I also picked up some benedryl as well. I'd rather not use it if I don't have to though.

[Norco1947]

Hi , Congrat's on day# 9 , My Day# 17 sleeping restfully 6-7 hours now a night ,  from about day 10-11 sleep started happeneing again . Still a bit hard to get to sleep but now it happens and i wake up rested. Hang in there ... Ron

[Sonrissa]

Hi Bayaba!  Sleep, or lack there of, for me was the worst of the withdrawal symptoms! That, and the fatigue probably due to lack of sleep! It was probably around day 14 or so before I started sleeping more than a couple of hours at a time! Soloist gave you some great advice! For me, keeping my room as dark and cold as possible helped! I also took Melatonin, usually 2-3 at a time, and that helped me feel drowsy and fall asleep! I also tried the usual OTC stuff without much success! Time is what will cure this! I was finally sleeping somewhat regularly around the 30 day mark! Hang in there, and keep moving forward each day! It will get better! Take care!

[candy_17]

Sleep oh where art thou sleep lol I got use to not being able to sleep but in the last few nights I've went to sleep earlier, easier and slept longer!! Yay...its day 30 for me so yes things are beginning to get much better!! It will for you too, hang in there!!

[Bayaba]

Thank you Narco1947 and Sonrissa for your input. It gives me inspiration to know that it's not to long before I start getting some sleep.  

Sonrissa, do you know how many milligrams were in the Melatonin you were taking? The ones I picked up are 5mg each. I hope they help me, even if it is for just a few hours.

I'm going to try keeping the temperature in the room lower as well. I don't look forward to having to go to the bathroom after waking up from the sweats in the cold though. I'll keep a towel and change of pajamas close by to deal with that.

I'm sure glad I found this site. The support from others who have gone thru this is priceless.

[Sonrissa]

I got my Melatonin at Wallmart, and they are 3mg pills! I usually took 2-3 at a time! They did relax me and made me feel drowsy! Since you have 5mg pills, I would start at 1, and see how that works! Good luck!!

[conhall]

Hello bayabaa,
I also had trouble sleeping during wds I suffered horribly then I finally got smart about it and I  tried another approach I tried not to stress about the sleep thing I would say okay if I am not gonna sleep then I will watch some good movies at least and I did get some good movies in and got caught up on all of some Netflix stuff I wanted to watch  then I also started exercising and also went for long walk early evening and then I would also try and ride my elliptical and then a nice hot bath and I used yummy bubble bath and epson salt to relax me and no caffeine past 3 pm it worked I finally slept 5 hours straight and each night it got better.
It didnt happen overnight It took awhile but I just started working on it and stayed positive and now i am sleeping like a baby better than I have in years I slept last night 10 hours . I dont wake up and feel sick like I used to when I was on pills. Life is better I feel like each day My body is healing more and more. Good Luck and keep posting :)))

[Bayaba]

I'm noticing that if I am not chugging down enough water that my heart rate goes way up. Is that something to be expected? I figured this out because I went for a 45 minute walk and didn't take my water bottle. When I got back I felt short of breath and that my heart was racing. I relaxed for a while and it didn't seem to calm down. I checked my BP and heart rate several times and the BP was basically normal, 118/68, but my pulse was in the 90s,  even after relaxing following the walk. When I went to urinate the urine was starting to get a little color to is, so I figured I needed water. I chugged a 24 ounce water bottle and noticed my heart had slowed down, so I checked BP and heart rate again. The BP was still basically the same but the pulse was down to 85. After another bottle full of water, it's down to 78. I'm wondering if this is consistent with experiences anyone else has had.

[vicki595]

Hi! A rapid HR can be caused by dehydration. We lose a lot of fluid during wd's so it's good to keep your water intake up.

If  melatonin doesn't work try Alteril. It contains a combination of natural ingredients and a lot of people have good luck with it.

You're doing great!

[Bayaba]

Tanks for confirming that vicki!

I took 5 mg of melatonin and I'm feeling like sleep might be coming on. I've felt like I was ready to fall asleep before and just stared at the ceiling.

if it doesn't work, would it be advisable to take another later?

[littlebit667]

this is good info for taking melatonin so that you get the best results.  Sleep is one of the last things to reset.  I am still struggling a little, but it seems to get better as the days go by.  Good luck.

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/circadian-rhythm-disorders/circadian-rhythm-sleep-disorders/10-how-to-use-melatonin-correctly.htm

[vicki595]

Sure, you could take another. Just get yourself and your bed very comfy, make sure you have a little something in your stomach, and get the room cool and quiet. You might try some Sleepytime Tea, if you have it...

Sweet dreams -

[Bayaba]

Tanks littlebit for the link to the melatonin information.

I did get about 3 ours sleep after taking 1 5mg melatonin last night. I took another an hour after I woke up and it didn't seem to do anything.

I'll try wit 5 mg again tonight and a hot epson salt bat again.

[vicki595]

If you're going out today, get some Alteril and some Sleeptime Tea. You just need to keep changing it up until you find what works!

All the best!

[Bayaba]

Compared to no sleep, 3 hours would be working, at least a little.

[Bayaba]

I just got off the phone with NA to find a meeting. There's one nearby at 7:30 and I'm going to go. I asked the individual I spoke with about how I might resolve sleep issues and they said it might be a month or 2 without sleep. Please tell me that is not true. I'd be pleased to just start getting a little more each night. I hope that is more the case of what I can expect.

[maria920]

Try zzzquil it worked really really good for me and i dont EVER sleep good even when i wasnt in wd or anything. It worked wonders for me and it didnt make me drowsy in the morning hope it works for u!!

[vicki595]

I just saw that ZZZQUIL advertised...and I wondered about it. Good to know!

[Bayaba]

Now I'm getting confused about what I should try. I was thinking I'd try the melatonin with Sleepytime tea tonight and see how that does. The melatonin did seem to have some effect last night.

I also spent some time doing some exercises, like push-ups, today. The muscles, which hadn't been used in over 3 months are sure sore, but that I can deal with, it's a sign of improvement.

It really discouraged me when I heard that it might be looking at a month or 2 of not getting sleep.

[vicki595]

No, no! It won't be THAT long! You can stick with the melatonin and sip the tea and it will most likely work for you.

Don't stress about this now...there are just a lot of options for insomnia. When you take the melatonin you should be in a dark room or it should be dark outside or it won't work well...

So, take it,and then have a nice, hot bath. Make your tea and crawl into bed. Sip your tea in bed...MMMM...Heaven.  Fresh sheets and Jammie's help along with cool, fresh air...

[Bayaba]

Just talked to my wife (I miss her!) and she suggested placing a wet towel, folded up, on my stomach with another dry one over that. She said that it would help with hydration during the night. Has anyone ever heard of or tried that? It seems to make sense.

[littlebit667]

good idea!  You may be waking up because your body is needing water.  Keep some by the bed and see if it helps you.  My sleep did get better quicker than 2 months...but it seemed to be different than before.  I sleep less hours than I did.  But, am very happy with 6 hrs. now.

[Sonrissa]

I haven't heard about that, but it's certainly worth a try! Please try not to stress about it cause that will make it worse! You can try different things and see what works best! I have heard good things about Alteril! It has melatonin in it! If it continues to be an issue for you, speak to your doctor! You may need a prescription sleep aid for a short time! I completely understand how you feel as this was the worst issue for me! Sleep will come back slowly, but it will come back! I am nearly 5 months out and I still have an occasional sleepless night! The best advice I can give is to relax as much as possible, and if it doesn't get better soon, talk to your doctor! Take care! Keep posting!

[Bayaba]

Is it okay to take another melatonin, I took one 5mg at 8:30pm. It's now almost 4 am and it would be wonderful to get in a little more sleep.

Also, I tried the wet towel on my stomach. I was still thirsty the times I woke up needing to urinate, but one thing I do think it helped with was the cold sweats, which I did not get while I was sleeping. I thought others with the cold sweats might want to consider it.

[Bayaba]

Last night's protocol seemed to give some positive results, so I'm going to use it again tonight. I'm wondering if I should try starting later, so I'm more tires/fatigued. I actually feel a little more rested than I did at this time last night.
Also, I did end up taking another 5mg of melatonin at 4am and I was able to get a few more hours of sleep. I'm wondering if I should take 10mg at going to bed or do as I did last night, taking another 5mg  if I find I can't get back to sleep.
I'd also like to remind others that are having issues with cold sweats that the wet hand towel on my stomach did have a very positive effect on that condition. It might be wort a try if you are having those problems as you go thru WD.

[Bayaba]

I thought I was making headway on the sleep issue but it's now 4:50 and I have not gotten even the slightest bit of sleep. Is it common for things to start to improve and then have something like this happen?

[cleanguy]

I feel your struggle... my sleep finally was better at day 14... i am now sleeping through the night. I use "knock out" combo of valarian root, melatonin and theanine. Just started 5htp a few days back, and have noticed a stabilization of mood. Read up on those and see what you think!

[Bayaba]

Did you have days that seemed like after you took 1 step forward and then 2 steps back?

[cleanguy]

Yes, during the first 2 weeks. Once i thought a symptom was gone, it would sneak up again. Knowing this was happening, i initially was frustrated. Then thought,  well my body was so medicated, its healing. That was a good thought process for me. I also notice as time goes on as im reaching 40 days soon, that obstacles ( challenges) will be coming. I've identified my trigger dates, holidays, sad anniversaries, etc... so I can prep mentally and socially.

Pun intended.... rest assured, it does get better and better! I had two big turns. Day 14 and 28. It wasn't exactly a light switch flipping on, more like a dimmer switch that brightened each day.

[5Ooh4_girl74]

It was months before I got near proper sleep when I stopped taking Lorcet10/650 and Xanax2mg for about 8 yrs. The worst thing for me to break away from was the Xanax though. Pure hell on Earth, if you will. I began taking Meletonin...DID NOT work at all, and I was taking 10, then 20, and so on....then I began taking Benadryl just to calm me down, try to stop the chest pains so I could even breathe type of thing. Dollar General Stores carry the Rexall brand which works well. Where I live, you can get a 265 count bottles for $6 (you might need that many in a months time...I do). The ABSOLUTE WORST thing you could do, is to start taking Valium for your Hyrdo withdrawl (withdrawal)!!!!!!!!! Dont get started down that road, PLEASE!!! Thats just trading one habit for another, and the Valium is a benzo (same as Xanax). The Benadryl will make your mouth extremely dry though, so try and drink alot of fluids. If that does not work for you, ask your DR. about Trazadone. It IS NOT anywhere near a narcotic. It is more like an anti-depressant type medication, which helps increase the amount of Seretonin in your brain (serotonin is a brain soothing chemical, which is made in your own brain). Most people with major depression and so on, have LOW levels of Seretonin which is useful when coming off of opioids, because the opioids have damaged your brain receptors, and they need time to heal, and to start accepting the Seretonin your brain is making, but your damaged receptors will NOT allow it to travel over the synapses in your brain. Read up on the seretonin, receptors and synapses thing....it will inform you and it will keep your mind off other things (which, right now, focusing must be hard for you). Good luck and keep us posted, please. :)

[Bayaba]

Thanks 50oh4!

You are correct on the focus issue, it is the toughest thing for me right now. I do feel a little better if I keep myself occupied somehow, even if it is simple tasks. I'm still not in any condition to get back to work following my surgery. I work as a remodeler and I'm probably going to have to scale way back, creating another source of anxiety. Top that off with the fact that my wife is working out-of-state so we can make ends meet and I've got a lot on my mind.

I'm glad I found this site, you and others like you ave been helpful as I work my way thru this.

[phillip28]

I went back and looked at my old posts and I posted on day 16 saying that I finally started sleeping....you're almost there

[jlannspr]

I also started using 5HTP a week before I wanted to quit to get it in my system. It seems to have helped.

[Bayaba]

16 days isn't far off for me, I can make it!

Did sleep come to you gradually after that?

It's 6:05pm and my eyes sure feel like they want sleep! I'm going to try and make it until about 9:30 or 10 before I try hitting the bed tonight, after a hot, epson salt bath. Wish me luck getting a little sleep.

[Bayaba]

Another night and no sleep. I'm really getting frustrated.

When is my body going to give in and let me sleep?

[Bayaba]

Finally got an hour or 2 of sleep last night. How long does it take for sleep to start to return to a more normal state once, I've seen on a couple boards tat it could be 2-3 months?

[OpenMind24hours]

I wouldn't think that long is my vote, especially If you've always been a good sleeper in good health, which is hopefully where you will end up after all of this.

Almost totally sleepless 66 year-old here, 3rd opiate WD in 4 years and 4 days clean on this one now. Just babbling as I sit here in a sleepless daze if you will...

Be thankful for that 2 hours of sleep especially if it occurred completely natural without a sleep aid or a benzo.

I read the post on here and other sites to get insight about my WD symptom problems. One of the most eye opening statements I saw was  "if I take a drug for sleeplessness, then I'm borrowing sleep from my future". That one blew me away. I guess I could apply that to my opiate intake. Along with taking away my various pains It gave me a feeling of well-being and energy (something a 66 year old man can always use). Now, sorry to say, it's time to pay all of that back with sleeplessness and ugly  WD discomfort.

I found a huge thread about "Ambien Withdrawal and Headaches" on a site called TOPIX when I thought about asking my Dr. for that "Butterfly crap" the last time I went through this hell on earth. You should read what those poor people are going through to get off of THAT stuff. CT seems out of the question for them because it can permanently affect your CNS some say.

I remember snippets from a TV documentary on a opiate rehab facility in Tibet (somewhere like that). One person, kicking a bad Heroin addiction, stayed completely awake for 5 days without any herbal or drug help to sleep. He just sort of hung out. Then he began to sleep, slowly but steady, under his own steam. The Rehab facility feels that's how nature intends. When he did get to sleep, its was natural and he was on his way without needing to kick sleep meds.  

I'm taking Alterill, Valerian Root, and Calms Forte and desperately trying to get to sleep, because, WTH it's 3 AM and I MUST sleep somehow! None of that has worked for me, and then I'll need to get off that next. Forcing sleep brings on "sleep anxiety" I guess. More I try more anxious I get.

What has worked was falling asleep naturally on my recliner without thinking about it, as nature intended I guess. Like I missed 20 minutes of my beloved Tigers winning round one 2 nights ago, when I fell asleep naturally. It was refreshing, but it was the last time I slept that night. It happened again a few times yesterday. I might begin to leave sleep to mother nature, I can't guarantee I will because my strength is up to a power greater than me, but it's one of my many hopes.

I wish you rest!    

[Bayaba]

OpenMind, Thank you for your reply!

I agree with you, I do not want to use some other drug that I'm going to have to withdraw from to get me thru this. I have been using a few things like valerian root, st. john's wort, melatonin, sleepytime tea, hot baths and a cold towel on my stomach/lower abdomen (see my post on night sweats for details).

I'm at 14 days now and I was hoping that sleep would start coming a little easier than it has. Many have said that a cold room is helpful but we don't have AC and it has been unseasonably warm here, until late in the evening last night, so my room has been on the warm side. Tonight it is looking like it should be cooler though, I hope that helps because 2 weeks with only an occasional hour of sleep here and there is really taking its toll on me.

[nursegirl6572]

I honestly think you're just overly focused on it, worrying about it, which I certainly understand...but I think that's affecting you some.

Try to distract yourself, try not to think about sleep as much.

Even though you're not back any sort of normal sleep routine, you ARE getting sleep, here and there, a few hours at a time, and that's GREAT.  The human body actually needs less sleep than a lot of people think, and it varies from person to person.  I typically live my life on about 3-4 hours of sleep a day...I have struggled with major insomnia for years now, so I feel your pain.

I've learned to stop worrying so much about when, and where, and how much...I lie down when I feel tired, and get as much sleep as I can.  Then, during the day, if I can, and I feel sleepy, I take a cat nap.  Naps are AWESOME for rejuvenating yourseldf, and actually quicker naps are even better, leaving you feel more rested.  I feel more rested after my naps than I do my nightttime sleep.

It will come....you're going to get there.  Just TRY not to be so overly focused on it.  That can be very self defeating.  Best of luck...congrats on your clean time!!  Amazing!

[lulu747]

Hi Bayabaa!
Hey you are doing awesome!  The sleep thing is soooo tough and what most people struggle with the most.  It's a mind thing.  You are not sleeping because you are so worried about not sleeping.  It becomes a vicious cycle.  Have you tired meditation cd's?  Yoga?  Your body will give in and sleep when it has to.  You need to try to surrender like you did during detox and accept that this is just what it is.  You are doing all the right things.  I know it's hard but you gotta be patient.  When I didn't sleep for many, many days I listened to meditation cds and music and let myself just drift.  

It will get better, slowly, day by day.  You are doing such a great job!  Be proud of yourself and keep moving forward.
Wishing you peace,
Lu

[Bayaba]

It's day 17 and I finally got a few, short periods of sleep. Probably the biggest source of anxiety right now is our financial situation and that is what is occupying my thoughts and keeping my mind racing. I've found a little work that I can do, even after the surgery, but that may just postpone our becoming homeless for a few months. I don't see much in sight to change the ultimate outcome and I'm unsure as to how to handle the situation. I don't know what to do.