Depression?? (this is GWH)

[Rick99]

Hello everyone, I had a handle of GWH when I used to post on here so I wanted to let the old forum members who I was.  In anycase, I have now been sober for over 4 months and I have never looked back, HOWEVER, I have been going through extreme depressed moods and I know its directly related to staying away from drugs.  My question is, what have people found to be a good answer to this? What types of meds are there? or alternative activities that help you along in staying up rather then down. Let me know when you can.  

Thanks so much

Rick

[hippy]

hey gwh, i have taken prosac for depression ,
with great results.
i had depression so bad it was scary.
so my wife made take some of her prosac.
i took it for a month and it took it all away.
so i went to see my doc and he gave me  a script.
me being a 12 na person , i was aginst all such drugs
for years, when  i got clean when i was 24 and went through the severe depression i just went through it , and it lasted
about a year and then it lifted, im 43 now and  have to deal with  empty nest syndrome, my daughter married and gone and my son of to collage,  back when i was clean when i was in my twenties i took a lot of pride in being a good single dad
who took care of his kids.

also when ever i would take valume  to sleep i would suffer depression the next day or so  to the empth degree.
well i hope i helped.
i here that prosac is very easy to get off of compared to other anti depressents.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[hippy]

i hade a question for you, and anyone else,
i think i rember you mentioning methadone.
in the past.
my question being have you ever heard
of methadone working, and anyone having sucess
with it.
i have a freind who is going to start taking it to get off oxycotin, in the past year of being at this fourm
i don't think i have read where anyone has had sucess with this
route, unless i missed it.????????
peace!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[Rick99]

yes, I think methadone is a god send.  I used it for 5 days and got through without any physical withdrawal.  I can't write much right now, but I will write more later.

[percsnomas]

Hey Rick,

Congrats on 4 months!!  That is a huge accomplishment!!

Sorry to hear about the depression..............i know you were back into the gym early on in your recovery; have you maintained that regiment??  
It certainly has kept me going right from the start(8 mths on Saturday for me).
I occasionally take trazadone(an MAOI) to help me get to sleep, and maybe i get a lit'l of its' anti-depressant benefits; although at 50mgs or less/use, i'm not so sure.

Take Care Bud!

[pammy0690]

Eight months wow!  I followed your story that whole time but didn't post until Nov.  I am proud of you!  What a long strange trip is has been!  I do have a question do you think that you are a stronger person because of the addiction?  My husband would always say that he wanted to go back to how things were prior to when we got all f-ed up and I had to tell him that those days are gone.  That the addiction changed us forever. But the new times may be better than the old times if that makes sense.  Congrates!  Pamela

[percsnomas]

Thank You Pamela, that means an awful lot to hear that from you!!
..........and i couldn't agree more about it being a strange trip.

To answer your question, i definately think i am a stronger person as a result of this addiction. Stronger in areas that i never even thought about before.

I think it's a combination of what both you and Mr. Rip expressed.......... that although it is quite similar to how i was prior to gettting all ****** up, it's better, due to an awareness of how precarious we can be leading our lives; and simply an appreciation for the really small and seemingly insignificant things.  I don't have a bunch of fancy slogans to pass your way; all i can say is life is awesome again(even with all the day-to-day bullshit).  That is a pretty powerful statement considering i lost my best friend/mom and my best buddy was murdered, last year; and is the real motivator for me being here still...........i really want to pass on how good it can be, that life after pills isn't just existing.

Sorry, if this jumbled........i'm just heading to a meeting.
When i said i was excited for your "new" life(you and Mr.R), I wasn't kidding.

percs

[pammy0690]

Thanks Friend!  Pam

[tracer3]

Hey GWH! You might remember me - I used to post as tex3. How are you doing? Sounds like you're great. I am so proud of you! I haven't been here in forever but just referred a friend and thought I'd check things out. April 1 was one year clean for me, with the exception of the root canal I had last summer, when I needed a few pain pills. Otherwise, I've done really well. I did have to get a shot at the clinic the other day after a week-long migraine, but I'm still doing fine, not using for recreation or anything like that.  Who else is still around? Write when you get a chance!
tlk

[percsnomas]

Hey Tex3,  i sure as hell remember you!!!!!!

It was one of your posts that i hung on to with all my might............about being right where i need to be to quit, when pills aren't fun anymore, etc.  It actually wasn't to me, but it was huge in helping me get clean.  I've been off a 20+/day perc habit of many years, for just over 8 months.

HUGE CONGRATS TO YOU FOR THE 1 YEAR!!!!!

I wish you would post more.

Thank you again; you'll never know how much you helped me last summer!!

percs

[tracer3]

Thank you! That really makes me feel wonderful! I would like to post more, and plan to. Things got really crazy for me for a while (we moved three times and I went back to work full time) but now are calming down and I'd like to help where/if I can for those who are going through the hell I remember so well.  I actually have a friend who just detoxed and I directed her here, and am trying to help her out. Congrats to you -- you should be rightly proud! I'm glad to hear you are doing so well. I'll stick around, too, as it really is great to "see" everyone again.

[percsnomas]

.......well great, welcome back!!!  Our forum just got significantly better!!!

[lisabet]

Hey percs - always glad to see ya posting. Just want to say I'm proud of ya too.  8 months clean is a HUGE accomplishment, and you seem to always be here to help us "strugglers"...smile.... Like I told hippee not long ago - heaven has a special place for people like you!!!!!  (But don't get too big a head, my fellow "mangy dog")...smile....Just wondering...do ya ever get cravings??? And if so - what do you do to "short-circuit" them? Your posts are always so articulate, and you seem so well balanced --- why the hell are you on the board with the rest of us pyschos, anyway?  heh-heh  You know I love ya, percs, and appreciate all of your experiences and advice.  Love, Lisabet, M.D.  :)

[oxic]

Hey Buddy, I just posted to you above.......

AND, thats the beauty of the internet, you can make people believe you're "well balanced" and articulate...HA

Thanks for the congrats.......it feels awesome(I so much want you to feel it too)  
You know, i found the post i was referring to with Tex3, and although i'm a one finger typer, here goes(it just gave me so much hope when i was so lost):

Aug.13/02  "You're right where you need to be to quit. When the drugs aren't fun anymore, and you know you're hitting bottom, I think inside you know you're just taking them to feel "normal" but it is a perverted normal - not  real at all.  When you are off the pills for a few weeks you will see that, and things will look so much better.
Relatively speaking, you're not on a very high dose(obviously Lisabet, this wasn't directed to me...haha). But you are still going to experience the gauntlet of WD. This will be chills, sweats, restless leg, deep muscle pain and spasms, bone aches, severe diarrhea, insomnia, jitters, and just plain crappy. I'm not saying this to scare you, and please don't be frightened away. My doc.(the one who gave me the pills) told me when i quit I'd feel like i had the flu. That was the understatement of the century. I think you need the knowledge and to understand what is happening. The opiates attach to receptors in your body(opiates are agonists), including your GI tract(hence the stomach cramps now, and the constipation when taking the pills) Your natural receptors no longer work, as they have adjusted to having a substance do the work for them. So while all the drugs leave your system, you experience withdrawal.. That will last at least three days, and then will improve thereafter.. I seriously doubt it will last longer than five days in your case. But it does take time for those receptors to begin working on their own again. While it is happening, you may fear that you will never feel "normal" again- but I promise you, you will. In fact it's like waking from a bad dream where all your senses were dulled, muted. They will be vibrant again. But you do have to get past the WD.


You can do this and you will feel so much better when you do!!! In a week you can either be still contemplating quitting and have all this ahead of you, or you can be through the worst part and looking forward to a brighter future, NOT CHAINED TO PILLS.

I must have read this a thousand times in my early days of detox....

Lis, i've said it before, that no matter what it takes(or how long) I'm going to be right here for you...Woof Woof

hugs,
percs

[lisabet]

Hey guys - THIS is the kind of interactions that keep me coming back to this place!!!!  Makes ya think, ya know?  Whether one agrees or not with the opinions here, I appreciate every one of your observations and inputs.  I respect all of your opinions and am writing like hell in my journal every night, and often site your reflections, and re-read them every day. It helps me more than any of you will ever know, but still wanted to tell you all that. I love all your sweet hearts, and thanks for sharing.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[oxic]

......oops i forgot to answer your question about cravings.
As my situation had spiralled so far in the toilet, and i was bashing back so much for so long; I have to believe i not only felt a "bottom", but crashed right ******* through it, and therefore once i decided enough was enough, I honestly haven't craved since my last few days of detox.  I was so pissed off that these lit'l buggers got such a hold on me, i've burnt into my head that picking up again is not an option. I truly don't crave them.

.......well at least that's how it was for me.....

People ask me that all the time, and i'm almost reluctant to answer, cause i don't want them to feel down(or bad) if they have cravings.....it is certainly natural.  The good news is, if a person does crave, the longer they put between them and their last pill, the cravings will diminish in intensity and frequency.
Time, time, time.

[lisabet]

Hey you!!! Thanks for the post from tex3 - I've printed it off and pasted it in my journal....it definitely IS a keeper. You had me LOL at your "bottoming out" phase, although I know for a fact it wasn't funny at the time.  I keep trying to stay pissed off at the little devils, but then they whisper my name so lovingly I fall right back in their clutches (then hate myself in the morning)...smile.  Sounds like a bad relationship, doesn't it??? And guess in a way it is.  Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement  (and "woof" back at ya!!!)...smile
Love, Lisabet

[peaz]

You mentioned the longer it is from your last pill to the present; the fewer and less intense the cravings. I totally agree.  In my professional group (AA based) though,  one of their 5,643 slogans is," The longer it's been since your last drink (drug) the closer you are to your NEXT one".....Now you talk about your BULLSHIT!!!!!  It's as if they're saying," For God's sake, what EVER you do---don't take any pride in what you've accomplished and CERTAINLY don't think you can KEEP IT UP...."  That's why they say,"Keep coming back"---they think it's  IMPOSSIBLE to  never relapse... They fully EXPECT you to.  It's one thing to not pass judgment on a person who relapses, but it's another to tell them they're POWERLESS and it will SURE AS **** happen sooner or later.  
    I have to quit==this pisses me off too much. have a good one...Peazy

[pammy0690]

Yeah that is like saying you are too weak to do this by yourself cause we are waiting for you to screw up.... Instead of well this group helped you to this point so why don't you keep coming.  I'll stop.  Pamela

[percsnomas]

What a bunch of horse kaka. That is just another reason that i like what Dr. Boz. says about Smart Recovery:



SMART RecoveryŽ:

Teaches self-reliance rather than reliance on a higher power
Views addiction as a complex maladaptive behavior rather than as a disease
Encourages you to recover and move on with your life
Does not use the labels "alcoholic" or "addict"
Does not have "sponsors"
Holds meetings which are actual discussions rather than a series of monologues
Advocates the appropriate use of prescribed medications and psychological treatments

Evolves as scientific knowledge evolves


I relate to this so much more!!! Mind you, my only exposure to AA, has been through my brother(for 20 some-odd years) when he was swaling away!

Hey girls, should i get the hot tub ready??

[rodewc]

ooo lalala.. Can't WAIT til Book Club Discussion Monday (as it relates to yr statements above) I too fully concur w/ u. rwc~

[peaz]

By all means get that hot tub fired up!!!   Didn't I read somewhere that  using one is a prerequisite to any truly meaningful discussion?? I'm SURE I did----I believe it was Norman Mailer's idea.........LOL

[sundara]

so appreciated your observations on 12 step . .. 18 days clean off vicodin/perc. . . i need the interaction of people, using my voice and seeing other peoples faces in addition to this forum which has been my life-line. . . what you said about "being powerless" was powerful to me . . . i have to tell my self everyday . . .I CAN DO THIS . . I HAVE THE POWER TO CHOOSE WHAT KIND OF LIFE "I WANT". . . so i have to say as of day 18 i feel powerful (not cocky) . . .being a junkie has brought me to my knees . . . i am humble, grateful and powerful . . . if "just for today" . . lol . . will be interesting when i get to that 12 step meeting this next time . .with a new perspective of power/powerless . . parodox . . . .peace/love/understanding. . .
sundara

[AmberHunter]

i have to jump in here on the discussion of 12 - step programs! i have such an extensive background in the fellowhip and it just warms my heart to see it picked apart by ya'll... LMAO!!!

i was just imagining what it would be like for someone to show up at a meeting and say "i feel powerful today" and could just imagine the uproar... b/c god/dess knows the program does not look upon feeling "powerful" as a character asset!!!

now, don't get me wrong, i think that NA or AA are great groups for some people but i no longer believe that it is the ONLY way and i no longer believe it is the way for ME! in my area it seems a little cultish but it beats the hell out of active addiction anyday! and thanks to the NA way i did get some long term sobriety... (in NA in my area ya better not use the "S" word, "sober" shhhh!!!)

seriously, i give NA alot of credit for doing me alot of good! and i don't blame NA or anything or anyone else for my relapse after those 8 years... but i love to see differing opinions on addiction and recovery esp. the one posted by the doc on the "smart recovery" org.

i guess my point is, if i have one, that for a 12 step program to be successful you need to give yourself up to it and trust in the people in the rooms to a large degree... it is learning a new way of life, and i can work, no doubt... 90 meetings in 90 days, get a sponsor, work the steps... the first step "we admitted we were powerless over our addiction and our lives had become unmanageable" when i look back it does appear to me that when it comes to drugs of any kind i get really stupid, and when i get really stupid with drugs that my life gets really, really unmangagable... for real... and the rest of the steps were of great help to me in so many ways, i only got up to step 8 in 8 years...

i still have friends in the fellowship, hell, over ten years of my life are connected so tightly with those people... i know they have worried no stop since i went out and relapsed over and over after those 8 years that this disease would kill me...

there is just a certain amount of closed mindedness that comes with giving myself up totally to the program again that keeps me on this med help board looking for another way to look at what my life has been like with drugs and without drugs... i have so much to learn and i am so excited about learning new ways to deal with being ME!!

i have gone on way to long here, being saturday and i am at work i am bored as hell, sorry to carry on for so long!!! i am growing to really enjoy this forum and the people on it and am even starting to remember stuff about each of you!!!

amber

[peaz]

First off, I have a house full this weekend and I haven't been reading in here so I will hopefully be able to answer any posts to me tomorrow (hint, hint).  
   Secondly, I know this isn't a stellar way to kick off the Book Club Babes group, but I didn't get to Barnes and Noble (see above paragraph for prime excuse)so it will be tricky for me to discuss our read.......I know, I know: detention, right??  I think I should have to take 10 vicodin for further punishment....washed down w/ Chardonnay..LOL  God, I HATE when I have to do that......:-)
   I will have the damn book by Tuesday. PROMISE. Hope everyone is having a great weekend.   Love and floggings---Peazy

[peaz]

"Babes"  applies to either gender.......don't think we're not an implicitly politically correct organization......

[sundara]

I think the best thing for me to remember about 12 step is the "take what you like and leave the rest". . .
that is the words "they" use . . . . . . maybe that's why it works so well for so many . . .

[peaz]

I wanted to tell you that the feature book review in the Minneapolis Star Tribune's Sunday edition was none other than "A Million Little Pieces"......How's that for serendipity??!!  The review stated :  "A brillantly written, savagely told tale of Frey's experience in a renowned Minnesota drug clinic". (They mention that Hazelden isn't actually identified??)  If you're interested, I suppose you could check the entire article out online. "James Frey takes readers into the white-hot center of his final blow-up in his incredible memoir......"
   So I will pick it up tomorrow and read like hell tomorrow night.....I'll have to brush up on my speed-reading.  But, I find retention and rumination are missing in such a method...LOL  I may have to resort to the ol' fashioned way: a chapter here and there......Peazy

[rodewc]

Dancin',

So I'm a hoot, huh?

Dancin, got to stick w/ rodewc as a nickname.. If you only knew the nassssssty (imagine Gollum sayin' that: nasty) sexual innuendos behind my nickname.. you would remember it fine, plus blush!) Lol .. Let's just say it stands for "rode w/ C_____"

Ahem.

That aside, Peaz.. nah, it "Million Little Pieces" doesnt identify the recovery center where Frey went- but I thought I had it pegged. Frey was on TV (which is where I learned of the book) and said he cried for a few hours upon completion of his story.

Dancin',

I usually give away all my books expecting no return, but this one was sooo powerful, plus I have No addict friends, that I can think of, and no better person to send it to than you, if you wish.

Peaz,

I will check out the paper you mentioned from work if I can, but I hesitate to browse the net from work as I work for the Gestapo (as far as tracking one's whereabouts online). I don't think it would be hard to x-plain +why+ I was researching substance abuse (I +care+ for others) Yada Yada.. but I dare not post from work. Nosey Dumb Asses (bosses, and the whole freakin heirarchy).. One have to "sign in" even to use MS Word, under your dang Social Security number. When you "save" your work, it +stays+ in folder's on the server at work. And, the firewalls, My God. I am "birdwalkin" here (ramblin, a ramblin wreck)

Judy, Peaz/ Et Al,

Annyhooooo.... we  can always bash A/A 'til all are thru w/ the Book Club. I often felt like spitting at those meetings, that is after I projectile vomit.

Happy dang Monday. God help me.

As always,
rode hard with Crazy-Ass ( "C" name omitted to protect the guilty party ANIMAL) (AKA rodewc)

:)

Dont even try to figger that out.. ROFL

[sundara]

Day 20 for me !!!! . . . have tried and tried to post a medical question with out any luck . . .seems like there are plenty of educated people on this forum.  So, although i am 20 days clean from my drug of choice . . .i had a Naltrexone/Revia implant put in 13 days ago . . .worked 18 hours on Saturday (art fair) . . and now it is swollen and sore . . called Doc . ..from the rapid detox center i went through and he prescribed a steriod (along with a small script of 5mg V's). . anyone with info or experience . .. . .there is much wisdom among the people posting here and i am grateful i found this site . . .

[peaz]

Hi!! Glad to meet you!  Those 12-Step comments of mine the other day were just the TIP of the iceberg, I assure you....It is a highly provocative issue w/ me........primarily because my welfare is so dependant upon what recovery philosophy I embrace as my own.  So I spend a lot of time weighing various regimes, and trying them on for size...It is hard for me to attend AA (I am mandated) and not wince (or vomit) at least three times a meeting.  Sometimes I try and interject a kernel of differing opinion--a different side of the "chip" as it were......LOL  As an example, one of our discussions was  based on a daily reflection that was read to the group.  It was concerning "SELF RESTRAINT" . It went on to state that we (alkies/druggies et al) hvae the CHOICE when we get up in the morning as to whether or not we are going to "Pick up that first drink." ( I put that expression in quotes because it is, as you have probably heard, one of the 4,538 slogans that is thrown around in meetings... Until my DYING DAY, I will try to convince them that the program would be adopted much more readily by the masses if only they would SPEAK ENGLISH>>>>LOL)  We digress....
      So---we have this choice in front of us, and hopefully we will decide NOT to use.  By using our self-restraint, they say, we can make it through one more day sober.  Makes sense, right??  I raised my little hand, and ever-so-sweetly asked, "So, how does self-restraint differ from WILLPOWER again?? I remember reading in the Big Book that alcoholism is NOT about WILL POWER but our Higher Power and only w/ His(??) help will we succeed in our addiction.  Will power is NOT the issue, they maintain.  But now you're telling me that SELF-RESTRAINT is????  HUH?????   A couple of different people reiterated the "You have the choice to pick up that  first drink" diatribe, and in doing so, made absolutely NO progress in clarifying the issue. ( Which is ANOTHER thing that pisses me off--will you just STOP AND THINK about what it is you're saying, instead of just spouting off cute little cliches that you've been brain-washed w/?????  Ask yourself: Is this logical?  Does this make sense to me??)  So, I just ended the discussion (which, in reality, had never began....LOL) in saying that there is no difference in WILLPOWER and SELF-RESTRAINT.  Face it.  So why not admit that and go from there?  Why does the word WILL POWER have to be so contentious?  Use your head, people!!  They had no answer for it, but I could tell I had frustrated them and ruined the normal "Lambs to the slaughter" ambiance of the meeting.  My sponsor actually said," Well, Diane, I think you may be right...."  so at least SHE was using her noggin'
     Sorry to get so long-winded.  Like I said, there's MORE where THAT came from!! LOL  Hope you're doing well.. I'd appreciate your reactions to any meetings you go to.  Okay?  Take care and have a good one--peazy

[dancinginthedark]

Rodey (I maintain) -

As far as your handle, uh, I think I got it, tho I'm not sure I wanted it!!!

I would LOVE to borrow your book.  And borrow I mean literally & most sincerely.  I told ya, as a lifelong bookworm & scribe, I'm almost as anal with pens & paper as I am with books, especially borrowed ones - including mine!!!  So, t'would be more than mildly appreciated *if* it's convenient for you.  If so, you can em me at ***@**** & I'll send you my address & nothing else untoward.  Just don't think I should post that up here!!!!

I think our little club is going to be all babes.  Percs can be our token dude.  Our F thread is all women except for one fabulous fellow, JR.  When he was in hosp. for 2 wks. in Feb., we all went to hell in a hand basket.  Besides, percs has a hot tub!!!!

We need a cool name.....Peazzzzzzzzz?  PLeeeeeeeeeeazzz?  Anyone else?

Pammy, think you asked about what time Stossel's show is on & I don't know here PST (TV guide, like huh?) & if I did, I wasn't going to post as I'm not sure where y'all are located.  I saw the ad on 20/20 Fri. nt. & I'll look at the TV guide at 8, 9, 10 PST on ABC.  It'll probably be a 20/20 Special or somesuch nonsense.  I do think it sounds intriguing.  

Dunno gang but I have to believe that free will has something to do with this "recovery" process.  I cannot & will not ascribe to blind faith or allow myself to believe I am...ah Shakespeare can be nicely wedged in here.  "As wanton flies are to young boys, are we to the Gods.  They kill us for their sport."  If I ascribed to the belief that my addiction (s) were not my fault & that recovery was not fully within my power, I'd be ass over tea kettle from all the new drugs I'd suddenly decided looked worth ingesting.  And I'd blame every relapse & all my problems on everyone but POOR l'il me.  

Waxing philosophical.....!

Ciao bellas,

Joody/Judes/Joods...oh, or Judy

[dancinginthedark]

Sundara.....Do you know you have the name of a heroine in a novel?  I tell you, I'll sure as heck be stealing it for some of my pithy prose & no, you won't get any royalties!

I'd also like to welcome you aboard.  Ordinarily, I drive most everyone batty, on a most regular basis but I've been away from the fray (she's a poet & don't she know it) for a spell.

Glad you have joined our august group.

Sundara.  I keep saying it over & over. I need nationality pls so I can focus my story!  I can guess but these days, best not or I could be accused of most untoward things.

Take care Sundara,

Dancin' Joods

[rodewc]

Hello.. Finally Monday is ovah.. as far as damn work goes. I was appalled to see an apostrophe in "folder'S" in a post of mine this AM. Hell, I may as well swallow pills if I write like I am on drugs. And, a subject/verb agreement error. Screw it, I am The Grammar Nazi. (My former net nickname used to be 'Grammar Mechanic'... if you like that better, Dancin')

A/A: I am prolly goin' straight to Hell for this, but I hate, vehemently HATE, holding hands and the Serentity Prayer at meetings' conclusions.

Dancin: e-mail me yr addy at ***@****
I will snail mail the book when you do.

Don't worry about returning it. The dog chews up everything in sight anyhoo.

rwc~

[sundara]

to both of you thank you for your responses. . . .peaz .. . i am totally with you . .. only two "slogans" i adhere to at this point in time . . for myself "one day at a time" did i say like 20 days without opiates like 20 times today . . as for meetings "take what you like and leave the rest" . .if and when i go . .i refuse to become a "12 step Junkie". .. which is what i think sometimes happens to some .. just swapping addictions. .

to dancing:  Sundara - Hindu diety - Goddess of Good Fortune . . .my alter ego .. lol . . .(didn't feel like any kind of Goddess that first 7 days off vicodin) . .
someone told me it means "beautiful one" . . .again was not pretty during detox . . .i am an artist and that is the name i go by when i work . . .

to everyone. . . still looking for someone with experience with the Naltrexone implant .. .

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE HERE . . . .PEACE/LOVE/UNDERSTANDING