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Depression from Opiate Withdrawl
Everyone I have ever known or heard of that got off any opiates was left with severe depression. Is this a standard side effect and how long will it last and how is it best treated? My friend's nephew just went to an addiction doctor who gave him buprenorphine injections and other scripts to get off pain pills. When he asked about an anti-depressant the doctor said "no mood enhancers for addicts." This seems unusual to me.
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If I could take your pain and free you of it I would.
Thank God you have not taken a huge amount of drugs to block your feelings.
I know you loved your mother,but it is gods will that we die at some point,please try to find some peace or meaning in it all.
Your life had forever changed,to lose ones mother is inevitable it is natures way and you are a mother yourself,I hope you made peace with her before she passed away.I don`t know what else to say,it hurts to much.
                          Luke
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You are a kind hearted man. Love, Brighty
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Religion is a word,that implies: Monastic and god worship.If one pronounces themselves a "Monk",they do not have to have god or monastic reponsibilties,is their no place for future religions or can new ones evolve?.I think Heroin Monks are  quite able to be fitted into the criteria of Religious,as monks do not have to identify with any ACCEPTED Religion or god and MANY do believe in god.
The word "Cult" is emotively misconstrued(by society)and possibly I should not have not used it without proper qualification,Here are the qualifications;
CULT:, n System of religious worship;devotion,homage,to a person or thing.
You see the contradiction immediately in that a Cult is a system nongod worship yet the Word religion(has god) is used in its definition.
If somebody found some sort of powerful THING that had all the atributes of GOD,maybe they do not care if it is the one and only TRUE GOD as all currently established Religions are currently arguing and in some cases Killing each other over(Religious Wars)maybe they should be free to investigate this "Thing" more.Brighty:I do have some ego left,and when lots of pleasurable things happy to me(compliments ,sex, etc)  it gets bigger and I become more unconscious and tolerant to the pleasure and others pain,eventually The pleasure cannot be sustained and the ego shrinks and I become more conscious and empathetic of others around me.
The Human EGO is a neuronal structure that depletes Dopamine from more important areas of the brain.You can learn to keep it small even while recieving admiration.
I hope The meek will inherit the earth.
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Thank you for your kind words.  No, I have not taken any drugs cover my pain, all though I have wanted to.  My mom knew of my struggle with addiction and was afraid to leave me for that very reason.  She feared for me.  This, she had told me and other people. Besides, I don't think any amount of chemicals can cover how bad I feel.  I did make peace with my mom.  I just can't believe this has even happened, I always believed or wanted to believe my mom was immortal.  She seemed to be anyway.  Well, I spent a few hours over there today, That was all I could do.  My sister will be coming up in April to help me some more.  I need to go and rest my head, it is spinning.   Again, thank you and Ps. I don't think you are spooky at all.    Love to all cindi
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I cannot imagine what this feels like to you. I remember seeing my daughter hooked up to a ventilator and them telling me they did not know if she would make it, if she would breath on her own again, and if she did they could not be sure if she would be normal. This was the 7th of the suicide/ODs. Just those memories alone make me sure I am not ready to deal with death. My mother was there for me and although she was suffering for her granddaughter she had to be strong and support me, her broken child. In her eighties now I am terrified of losing her. They say that you feel like an orphan when you lose a parent, no matter how old you are. I'm sure this is true. And like your mother I am afraid that something will happen to me and my daughter will crumble... she has terrible fear to lose me although I am healthy... this is because she knows how hard I fought to keep her alive in this addiction. So I can relate to your mom wanting to be there to be sure you are OK. I believe that as women and mothers we all share soemthing that is hard to put into words. I also believe that you will speak to her in your dreams and she will give you courage and comfort. Love, Brighty
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You mention your book in several posts. If it's half as interesting as your posts, I would love to get my hands on a copy. Is it commercially published and available in the US? I don't mind paying for it. Of course, if you want to give me a taste of it in PDF format, you can send the files to:

***@****

Please don't think I'm trying to do you out of your rightful author's compensation (I earn my living as a technical writer for the computer industry, so I appreciate the importance of royalties), but it sounds like a book that's going to be hard to find over here, if at all.

Since I am presently focused on recovery from thirty years of rx opiate use, perhaps there are excerpts I might find more useful than other sections. You sound like an academic, so I expect much of your book might not mean much to a layman such as myself.

If it's too much trouble, I understand. You've already contributed a lot through your posts on this forum and I deeply appreciate your information on L-Tyrosine.

Peace to you, spook.
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I was hallucinating one night and could see the whole universe as a living and growing thing and all that.  God spoke to me and told me that everything was going to be all right because he would always be there for me.  I asked Him to let me see His face and He did so.  What I saw was me looking back at myself!  The point of this is that we were all created in His image.  God is simply the good in all of us. J.B.

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It works, it really does.  And you have benefited from it.  I just wanted to let you know that I know.  J.B.
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I know your post was addressed to Spook, but I couldn't help but respond to you...even after great hesitation.  I said I would refrain from lengthy doctrinal postings.  All I want to tell you is that you are on the right track.  Keep praying and talking to God...in the name of jesus (the mediator).  Ask him for enlightenment and understanding.....you will be amazed at what you will find. Tell him to send the Holy spirit...this will help you understand.  This is what I told my best friend before she died......She was not so sure either, but when the moment was upon her, she was at great peace.  If it's any consolation, I was raised Catholic.  What a journey it has been.  I appreciate you candid honesty.  I wish you peace and great wisdom.  You deserve it.  Remember...when life get's to be to much; cast your burdens on Him.  He cares, and so do I.

Where is Spook anyway........starting to miss the old boy???

Love ya,
Annie
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How are yall doing.  Stupid question, Huh.  Glad to hear from you.  My husband went on LSD trips when he was a kid.  Talk about messing w/ brain chemistry.  Took him years to get over the episodes.  He was deeply troubled.  I only did it once, just as an experiment, to understand what my husband went through.  My soul was troubled for days.  Everyone speaks of the enlightened experience....I can't say the same.  I saw straight through people.  Was very scary.  If I can help anyone in this situation I will.  I don't believe people actually know what they are doing here.  I have a lot of resources on this topic.  If anyone wants to see a good video......Get Hell bells from your local christian video store.  Very good.
Musicians will even testify to the fact, they become someone other than themselves.  They are not who they seem on stage.  I come from a long line of family musicians.  This is why I am intrigued by all of this.

Love to you and your wife JB.
Annie
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Spook, I just read your reply to me (I haven't been on the forum for several days)  I want to say that I am very sorry to read what you've been through and am glad to have come to "know" you here.  I must say that while I was not an atheist (grew up Catholic) - I found it hard to really understand or believe in God.  I did not deny him, I just couldn't figure the whole thing out and was thinking, "What if I die and nothing happens?  How do people KNOW there is a God? Jesus?"  For some reason recently I have come to believe that there really is.  I just want to be closer to HIM.  You have really enlightened me with your posts.  I find them to be facinating.  I speak with God almost every day (don't get a direct answer) but still I speak to him.  I was having SO MUCH anxiety about my life which was causing insomnia and needless worrying.  One night, I lay in bed and just said, "God, I know you will guide me and I trust you.  I know that you will help me help myself and provide for me.  I know this and do not need to worry" and I am not joking, since that night, my anxiety has almost disappeared!  And things have been going my way.  People are agreeing, and things are getting approved (at work, my new place to live), everything.  I hope you are well Spook and look forward to reading more posts from you!  Take care friend, Maryanne
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Gee whiz! I can't believe I missed this!.... a day late and a dollar short.  I can't believe I missed these post.  Just read them.  In the words of my boy Rob Thomas/Matchbox 20..."It's time to come home, " Spook.
I said I wasn't going to go there again, but just can't help it....I didn't come on much this past weekend, but everyone seemed to be posting on spirituality.  
First, you mentioned the heroin munks....Let me be very frank w/ you about all of this: the consciousness, heroin, LSD, drug induced meditation etc etc.....Your dabbling in the Supernatural World.  Your opening up one of the hidden senses.  I never, and I mean never heard you say anything about Lucifer/satan....Do you know that he could actually be your god.  Do you think he exist.  Look, I'm sorry yall........I just can't help it.  I know I'm gonna end up being the whipping boy here, or should I say girl..... Yall just let me say this above.....and I will try to restrain myself.
Luke.....Your name comes from the Bible....and so does mine, but I can not reveal it here on the forum due to anonymity.
If I didn't give a care.....I wouldn't waste my time.
Annie

Ps.....I know people who went on Lsd trips and claimed they were seeing God. Did you know that Satan often appears as an angel of light.  Spook, Beware!
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i don't have alot of experience with depression, once I cam off of heavy duty opiates I was not depressed.  For a time my doc thought I was and put me on zoloft but the feelings i was having were normal human emotions.  If you were depressed before you started taking vicodin and you are depressed again while off of them maybe you should talk with your doc about this.  Maybe he can change you to something else or increase your zoloft. Sure the Vics made you feel euphoric, now you have to deal with life on life's terms, without them, Seriously, I would talk to the Dr. about this depression but again, I don't know much about this protracted abstinence syndrome I really never experienced it.   Sorry I could not have been of more help to you.  take care  good luck  cindi
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She needs a response from someone w/ more experience w/ her situation.  I have to go now.
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Hi, Im Marque,  Im new to the forum. Been reading about this depression thing.Ive been clean from Vicodin for about 7 1/2 mos now...My Doc has me on Zoloff 50 mgs a day and Deprecote. This med dont seem  to help my dep. much at all I guess. I suppose the only way is to stop taking it and see if Im  even worse. I have never been thru anything like this before. I used Vico's Es for about 3 yrs and started as little as 1 or 2 day and went up to about 8/or 9 a day last july before detox. My question is like so many others out here. 7 1/2 mos is a long time to be in Depression and having bouts of anxiety. Wonder how long this Protracted Abinence Syndrome lasts.....When I dream I still remember how I was before all the Vicos and this low depress feelings.............thanks, Marque
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I just had a chance to read your posts re: God/Jesus and praying
I was raised in a church, taught about "religion" and after getting clean excepted God inot my life,  I have one problem now, since my mom died i have been questioning the same questions Maryann asked Is there God, how do I know?  I am not comfortable with this.  I used to believe that when we die we go to heaven, float around up there happy and painfree,  Now I find this sooooooo hard to believe.  Is mom up there looking down on me?  Is she upset that I am so torn up by her death?  She would be very sad to see how I am feeling?  I picked up at book today at the daycare where i work (it is in a church) for some reason it jumped out a me today, call When Christ comes.  It talks about life after death and other things I am questioning.  I did go into the church for a few days in a row, I prayed my heart out.  I just want you to know that everthing you say makes so much sense, if I could just put your words into action, thank you    Love to all cindi
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How I feel for you.  Sounds like you and your mother had a good relatioinship.  All I can say is, she is at peace and none of us will know that kind of peace here, but we get closer to it when we get closer to God.  That journey never ends.  We are separated from him.  We will always fail, and never "be" perfect.  This is why God made that unbelievable (notice The word unbelievable) Sacrifice.  His son.  Read John 3:16.  So simple yet so many do not understand or believe.  You see it is a gift.  I could go on and on, but my time is very limited right now.  I wish I had the time to get into this w/ you.  To offer you some peace of mind.  Just look into the eyes of your beautiful children......They are also a gift from God.  The kingdom of heaven is for such (the children).  Sit w/ them and love them....read to them.....cuddle them.  Soon you will realize your reason for being here.  They need you, and you need them.  They are so ready, willing and able to offer love.  You need that so much right now.  Your efforts will be your reward in life and where your children are concerned.  Don't dwell on your mistakes....Rem.  There is no one that does not sin...no not one.  Some people are just good at hiding it.  God see's all.
He knows the number of hairs on your head.  Please be well, I will return.  I will be thinking of you.  
Love,
annie
Ps.....I emailed you.  Hope you got it.....and yes I do like Rob Thomas music.  He sings about life. lol

It was by no mistake that the book "jumped out" at you.  Happend many times in my life.
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Hey, there woman,  I thought Rob Thomas was my man  LOL    cindi
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Yeah, just what spook said,  yeah, that's what I meant....Love to all cindi
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Hi, I do not believe that hell,satan nor the devil exists,I think they are Religious constructs to serve a purpose.I am pretty certain that we all share a part of GODS consciousness,but do not compose its entirety,I do not understand the STRUCTURE of GOD.
Regarding EGO and LSD, below is a quote I think explains the relationship.
-----------------------------------------------------------------"The LSD revelation is the clear perspective. The LSD panic is the
terror that ego is lost forever. The LSD ecstasy is the joyful
discovery that ego, with its pitiful shams and strivings, is only a
fraction of my identity."
-Timothy Leary
-----------------------------------------------------------------
As I have said before ,I call "ego" "False self"in my book.(250 pages and still not finished)ie published yet.
Many of my experiences with LSD were so frightening YET so enlightening.I believe LSD can cause severe psychological disturbance and its therapeutic use for "consciousness expansion" should be done only by experienced people in appropriate settings.(I do not think Jimi Hendrix was experienced enough)
I started with (30micrograms)and it took many years(approx 10) before I could handle larger doses(400micrograms)to me it was a learning journey,and what I was learning seemed to oppose a lot I had come to believe as a "Normal" person,it changed my life forever and I believe for the better.If I had not completed the LSD journey I would have remained confused,each time I took it ,the next one seemed to start where the previous one was finishing(you can only learn so much and so fast)I really was LEARNING and changing and being a very complex organism-(HUMAN), I had a lot to learn.I took LSD until the last 3 experiences were the same,apparently It could teach me only so much,and the rest was up to me.I love Jesus,but it has been 2000 years and this world is in urgent need of a new paradigm of existence,it is being destroyed and so are our souls,I only seek to find were WE all went wrong and one possible way of making life on this planet more meaningful than just a struggle for survival(even if its the survival of own ego,that we are tricked into fighting for).
I asked the forbidden question(who am "I") and it took 37 years to get an answer and in answering it, lost everything I held dear to me.Maybe I am the one who is lost,maybe I am wrong,maybe life has no meaning and I have no identity,no personality.I do not think so,something that FEELS so right cannot be SO wrong.
I do not think the World is ready for a lot of what I propose yet,and the changes will take place slowly,but to cure the world WE must first cure ourselves.
What I am/was? trying to work out is the exact nature of our disease,you know the human condition.  

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I am flattered that you would like to read my book,however it is not yet published,I started working on it about 7 years ago,it is about 250 pages in length and growing. I am working on it still,I am trying to rewrite/explain concepts in plain english,but some words are only understandable/available in scientific/transcendental terminology and I want it written concurrently in both languages.
My book will be free,when finally finished it will be available to anybody that is interested in reading about Life,God,Politics and the Universe.
I have only touched on some of its messages here,for example it attempts to explain the creation of the Universe and exactly what is this thing we experience as "Life",it examines the Neurochemistry behind Human behaviour and how Politics and OUR western societies interact with those systems and visa versa.
One will need a tertiary understanding of Physics,Neurology,Pharmacology and Psychology at the moment to understand just the words in it,let alone make sense of the complex interweaving and synergism of concepts between the sciences involved.
It is a lot like "Paul Davies" book "God and the new Physics"except it contains a LOT more explanations based upon Neurology,Psychology,Psychiatry,Pharmacology,biochemistry and Philosophy.
           Luke Edward
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Immediate symptoms of withdrawal: restlessness, drug craving, sweating, extreme anxiety, depression, irritability, dysphoria, fever, chills, violent retching and vomiting, increased respiratory rate (panting), cramping, insomnia, explosive diarrhea, and intense aches and pains....all not considered to be lifethreatening.
Magnitude of acute withdrawal symptoms depends on: dose of opioid, frequency of previous drug administration, and duration of drug dependence.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Protracted abstinence syndrome: begins when acute phase of opioid withdrawal ends and persists up to 6 mnths: depression(Will be unique for every person,some angry ,some sad,etc,etc), abnormal responses to stressful situations(increased needs,emotional,etc), drug hunger, decreased self-esteem(feel unpopular), anxiety, and other psychological disturbances.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Recurrence or expression and "amplification" of underlying personality problems that drug use may have masked should be expected, diagnosed, and treated appropriately.

Believe me you will feel much better `soon`,you are sick of suffering,keep a calender as your sense of times slows,a week feels like a year,give it 3 to 6 months and you will thank god for your precious life back.
                                   Regards Luke
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Thank you... that was one of the best descriptions of opiate withdrawl and all it's related effects, complete with expected time frames, that I have ever read... very concise and with the strong chord of encouragement to reassure the worthiness of such a difficult undertaking !! Thank you very much, Luke. Love, Brighty
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I remember a quote that I heard long ago and I don't know who said it.  "Life is just a dream about a dream" or something to that effect.  I just wanted to say that I have been through withdrawals from opiates several times.  The hardest part of the whole experience for me has been that the only people that I can relate to are fellow addicts.  And we seem to be in constant search of the "buzz".  No matter how good our intentions are of staying clean and how much we work the program, it all breaks down at some point.  I lost a sponsor due to relapse and ended up joining him "out there".  What to do, what to do?  Are we doomed?  Is life really a dream about a dream?  How do you maintain your sanity, Spook?  J.B.
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I've had much better days than the last two. I'm glad that you asked though.  Part of me wants to go out and get wasted and part of me says stay home and be good.  I've chosen the latter and will try to be good for me and mine.  It's just experience that keeps me headed in the right direction anymore.  God knows that I don't need any more problems in my life!  Be good and have a safe weekend, Cindi.  J.B.
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Hey JB, How r u doing today?  I just got home from work, and on the ride home I always have time to think,  My mind takes me to these place and questions.  Do you remember the post where Tom declared how much he loved drugs and I responded by saying that you guys think my thoughts?  well, again you have done it....You have posed a question that I have asked myself over and over again...Not only do we relate to other addicts the best, do we all think alike?  It seems so...at least we all have the same questions, you guys are just much better at putting your words into writing and you have more courage to ask the questions...sometimes I'm not sure if I really want the answer but I'd love to hear what spook has to say also....Love to all   Cindi
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I'm glad you chosse the latter, being good is always safer and I'm sure it is a benefit to your wife.  I have those days as well, wanting to get so wasted that I am totally numb but...I have 3 reasons to say home..they are 3,7 and my husband.  God bless you and Yours,  have a great weekend and be well...love to all cindi
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Hello friend !
I do not have any answers... and those of us not searching for a "buzz" still have an empty hole inside somewhere... the sense that something is missing and we need to fill it. I have come to the conclusion that only the Divine can fill it.... that is the only peace... the only real sanity. I know this but am not so good at accomplishing it... I think it's a life's work. Love to Marty from me also. Brighty
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Just a thought here, but this family issue hit me like a ton of bricks.  When I am with my grandchildren, I'm a much happier person.  I feel so responsible and worthwhile and needed.  It's like being in another world for me.  My family offers me some much needed self esteem!  That's part of the solution, I think.  Have a great day, Cindi!  J.B.
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Regarding keeping my or ones Sanity;
Some say that talking to oneself is the First sign of going insane,I have never ventured past this first sign,if one keeps things bottled up then depression and Neurotic Anxieties are certain to emerge,talking to others may/can help,but I have found that it is myself that "I"(my conscience)needs to talk to.
I live alone and have a stress free lifestyle with no responsibilties,these are achievements I actively sought in order to find peace.
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A few posts up from this one (by you) has me confused. Are you saying you've achieved a psychological or spiritual state that allows you to use opiates like Heroin with impunity? Or did I misundertand you? You're obviously quite well informed and intelligent, but some might call those "famous last words." I know they would be if I were saying them.
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That is exactly what I have been trying to tell everybody,I am in a "take it or leave it frame of mind-do not care either way",regarding Opioids(yes IV Heroin included)or ANY drug,Now I am trying to retrace my footsteps to explain to anybody interested how I achieved this Freakish state of mind.Why would I make this up?.I am trying to work out what happened exactly myself,I know it was a long journey with much pain,20 years at least,no magic drugs,something to do with a shift in the way I view life(and death)and my expectations of what life should give me has changed it is like, now, what life can I give to myself,it is VERY spiritual.
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Spook: spook, if I give you the following e-mail address, I would be honored to be allowed to read even excerpts from your book. I don't think you realize how insightful and excitingly unorthodox your writings are. I have earned my living as a professional technical writer, mostly for the computer industry, for going on twenty years, many of which have been spent as an editor, proof reader, writer's mentor to authorities in various fields -- the point is, in exchange for being allowed to read some of your work I would make myself useful as a "pre-audience" for your work. You've stated that one of your goals is to make a multi-disciplinary work understandable to a broad, "unevenly qualified" audience. This is an editorial function I have performed successfully many times for authors of all kinds, often for experts writing in English as a second language -- not that this would be your case. I mention it only to express the range of editing work I have performed in the past. Of course, according to your copyright laws and mine, anything you allowed me to read would be kept in the strictest confidence.

just think about it. You have only yourself to blame. Your subject matter and approach is just too interesting to ignore.

here's my address. Please reply even if it's just to say no. I would respect that as much as anything. Remember, I'm not looking for pay, just intelllectual stimulation on a subject of great personal interest to me.

***@****

I look forward to hearing from you!!! Peace to you spook.

tom
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thank you for the kind words, spook. It has always been a lonely battle for me because I always seem to be confronted by people who think I am hurting them by doing, as Joseph Campbell said, "Following my bliss," an act Campbell identified as a common denominator for all societies with mythic traditions. I can't claim with total honesty that my use of drugs has never harmed anyone, at least if you include inadvertently inflicting emotional pain as doing harm. Of course, over the years, I could have been a better provider, more sensitive husband and better father if I had not had this obsession to deal with. I would never try to maintain that there hasn't been a price to all of this. But I do not consider myself evil, immoral or cruel. I am a man playing the hand I've been dealt. And despite your discouraging report about buprenorphin in Australia, it is my hope that bup will be legalized as a treatment for opiate addiction and that I will be able to utilize it as soon as it becomes legal and, with the right help, learn to taper myself off of the stuff for good. I certainly hope we've learned from the Aussie experience with bup and make more of a success of it. With my record, I could probably get on methadone right now. However, I understand methadone is the hardest opiate of all to get off of, heroin included. That is why I'm patiently monitoring the status of bup and quietly making plans to avail myself of it. All official indicatons seem to be that bup will become legal to treat opiate addiction in a private doctor's office somewhere between now and this summer.
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Annie, after reviewing this thread I felt the need to thank you for your kind words of concern for my life-long addiction and obvious struggle with even deciding what to do about it. I know your compassion is genuine and I am truly moved that you would care so much for someone you've never even met. Addiction is, often a form of adversity and, as a wise man or woman once said, one's nobility and humanity are only truly revealed at moments of adversity and pain. Your words "give you away" as a woman of compassion and humanity and I just wanted to acknowledge it while it was on my mind. I haven't given up on overcoming my predicament but I have no illusions that it will be easy or that the solution is as cut and dried as just attending meetings, as important as I admit that is. Please give my best to your husband and I conratulate you both on finding a way to deal with your own addictions in such a positive way.
Peace to you both,
tom
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I do not see that getting high is doing YOU any harm physically,emotionally or Spiritually,Humans have been doing drugs since we came out of the cave and learn`t to harness fire,many drugs contribute vitally to religious ceremonies and the well being of their culture,I know people that have never used a psychotropic in their whole lives and they are selfish naive people,you are the opposite of that.Do not let our current society trick you into thinking you are doing something wrong,it is a mixed up crazy system we live in now,I think you show purity and wisdom in your use of these chemicals,in a way you are trying to turn your back on the wrongness of it all,NOT escape from yourself,you are being made a victim,by a materialist culture dominated by atheists living in a fools paradise.I think you are to hard on yourself sometimes,maybe you feel guilt?.Its not like you seek oblivion,you seek truth and have found a truth that works for you in this society,I do not see a problem at all with you.But thats just my opinion,others may think different.You are lucky to passionately love doing anything as much as you claim to being high.If you wanted to stop I think you would,you are not asking for help as much as seeking permission and only you can give yourself the freedom to do what you want with your life.
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Patrick/Tom I appreciate any help you can give me.I have emailed you a copy of this,their is another 243 pages.


page 1.
                             The Enigma of Consciousness

LUKE. G. EDWARD.
<a href="***@****" target="_new">

INTRODUCTION

Can one percieve the entirety of an object, that which, themselves are only a tiny component of ?.
  The Omniety,God, Krsna,Allah or any other name one refers to as their Deity of worship is possibly composed of all the particles in this Universe,especially,the as yet undiscovered particles that compose Space itself (Wheeler refered to them as Pre-Geometry).As mere Humans we must be composed of a limited and negligable number in comparison to the Deity.
  In order to percieve of God,I believe one must use their Consciousness`s most refined and Pure(emotionally unadulterated) form of its human manifestation,which I shall call our "Soul"throughout this Book.
  The term Spiritual or Spirit I shall consider our most precious Human emotional experience of  the expanded conscious state,that can, as mentioned be distilled to the level of  emotionless Soul.
  In order to percieve of ones Deity they must shut down consciouness to the puriy and level of the  Soul and use its Ultra-sub-particle Quantum Energy Matrix of structure(pre-geometry) and the net collective effects of its attractive gravitational forces to interact with the larger all pervasive structure that permiates this entire Universe and in this book I shall refer to this All pervasive structural  consciousness as God,the Super Soul,
  Cosmic Consciousness as the state of intersection of the soul with God and the Universe.
  Collective Consciousness will be considered a similar communication but done between humans and also existing in perpetualty on its own accord,whether or not one taps into it or is conscious of it.
  Awareness will be differentiated from consciousness in that is requires the Neurological Structures of Organisation of the brain/mind as well as some consciousness to exist and will also be considered the "Normal" state of mind typified by having a  Subconsciousness.
This allows for awareness of being Conscious and consciousness of being aware.
  Ego will be considered as an emotive and Intellectual manifestation of the "Normal" state of mind,and referred to as the "False Self"in this Book,The persons "Identity" in their unenlightened state.
  Unenlightened are those essentially Egocentric Humans complete with subconsciousness whose consciousness is dislocated or blocked from its source (the Soul) as it has not yet been expanded and eventually by repetetive expansion,learned how to  remove the blockade and programing of society.
  The "Normal" state of mind will be considered a natural reponse to its environment and not a disease,although the Cosmic/soul-conscious mind will be considered Superior.Even an semi-egoless expanded semi-deprogrammed mind is superior,for reasons that will be explained in chapter 2.
Enlighened as being anything other than "Normal".

page2

  This Book will provide the supporting Physics and Neurochemical and Neuroanatomical information about our Normal Mind and instructions to achieve and make contact with your Soul,and possibly the Cosmos(Universe) and thus God,it also looks at the Social, Cultural and Political ramifications and interactions of a predominance in our Western Societies of this Proliferation and acceptance of Normality Insuperior.
  Much of the research is backed up by Neuropsychopharmacological and Quantum Physics experiments and Vast amount personal experience.

CHAPTER 1.  The Neuropsychological, Neurochemical,Neuroanatomical correlates of Human behaviour and related Physics.

Quantum Physics dictates that the  Human Brain is not capable of accurately percieving Reality and that standard perception is based on Cartesian/Newtonian systems,concepts and structures.The notion of  the existence of God and our souls has plausible scientific basis when understood through the eyes of someone who has a grasp of these Sciences.
  In order to percieve the true nature of our Universe,one must first reduce all sensory input to a minimum,But this is the final step and many other things must be achieved first,I will mention them in due course.
  Sensory Deprivation allows Dopamine to accumulate in pre-synaptic  storage vesicles in the midbrain region otherwise known as the Mesencphalon.(Middle brain).
It is an area of the brain stem that is positioned such that signals of information (electrical) from all other parts of the "brain"above it and around it and the nervous system below it-our "body",must pass through it.
Once Sufficient Dopamine has accumulated and saturation occurs the Dopamine Neurons will easily release the Dopamine Neurotransmitter, with extremely little external stimuli,in fact,you will be taught to use an internal trigger to start the Dopamine cascade event.
In this state, the Reticular Activating System (RAS) that surrounds the Midbrain and is essentally the Reducing Valve of Sensory information,will be fully operative,leading to the Increased Consciousness required to start our two fold task, first looking outward upon our own minds and eliminating subconcious and ego and deprograming our "Normal"selves such that we can then acheive the second part of  this very tedious and long adventure(it took me over 20 years)looking in deeply within ourselves ignoring the mind and body in effect now contracting our expanded consciousness to the pinpoint pre-geometry that in essence is our soul,ie consciousness and attaches and interacts gravimetrically with the entire universe,this is the Cosmic conscious state,you will be in the Mind of God.
It is only the interaction of our souls consciousness with our minds awareness as it pertains to itself that allows us as humans to introspect and be aware of the fact that we are alive,othewise we may not realize this and may behave in a destructive and ego orientated mode of social programing.I believe that now in this year 2001 many people do not and are not self-realized and a lot of this Book is concerned in how we de-evolved to this low conscious and thus Intellectual point and the social,political,religious and personal consequences of existence within a predominantly 'Souless",material object orientated society and almost World now.

page 3.

  Albert Einstein stated that no information can travel faster than the speed of light and Newton postulated that ALL bodies have attractive gravitational forces associated with them.For Newton,time and space formed an absolute framework,within which the material events of the world ran their course in imperturbable order.His was a Gods eye view of the "World": it looks the same to every observer,where they are or how they travel.By contrast it has been said that Einstein`s is a Humans eye view,in which what you see and what I see is relative to each of us,that is,to our place and speed,and this relativity cannot be removed,"we can only communicate our own views to one another.And communication is not instant;we cannot remove from it the basic time-lag of all signals,which is set by the speed of light".
  At the end of Einsteins life he was "still" working to seek a unity between gravitation and the forces of electricity and magnetism.
  Today Quantum Physics has found no Gravity shields and see no limit to the forces of gravity in that you, for example, exert a force upon the moon,however very relatively small and no atom or sub-particle cannot also be excluded from being caught up in the theory that every particle in this entire universe is communicating Via gravity with every other particle.
  I therefore state that information can travel instantaneously via gravitional attraction and is not restricted to the velovity of light; (E=mc
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for 3 years i was tacking 10---20 percs or up to 25 7.5 vicodins a day and a couple oxys 40mg. tryied everything to quit and the only thing that helped was the thomas withdrawl recipe about 20 dollars of vitamins you can google it youll get a thousand hits on ot and it helps with loss of energy and depression. It is so simple to do. I guaraty it works without feeling like your going to die, just some leg cramps is the worst part but a HOT bath soak does the trick and the vitamins are wasy to find
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for 3 years i was tacking 10---20 percs or up to 25 7.5 vicodins a day and a couple oxys 40mg. tryied everything to quit and the only thing that helped was the thomas withdrawl recipe about 20 dollars of vitamins you can google it youll get a thousand hits on ot and it helps with loss of energy and depression. It is so simple to do. I guaraty it works without feeling like your going to die, just some leg cramps is the worst part but a HOT bath soak does the trick and the vitamins are wasy to find
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this is the thomas withdraw


For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement).

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Start the vitamin/mineral supplement right away (or the first day you can keep it down), preferably with food. Potassium early in the detox is important to help relieve RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). Bananas are a good source of potassium if you can't find a supplement for it.

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

Continue to take the vitamin/mineral supplement with breakfast.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

Thomas"
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I have been abusing roxy n opana for over 4 yrs along with cocaine MDMA n a slew of other drugs. Detox just sux, period. I found l tyrosine helpful with the general malaise n b 12 for energy. I am also on lamictal ( anti siesure med with awesome mood stabilizing properties along with trazadone, an AD that promotes sleep as well. It's a hard road but possible. I'm I'n day 5...again. Relapse sux but sum ppl go thru it to beat it I'n the end. Bottom line, we didn't get here overnite n can't expect an instant healing. Just stay the course stay away from suboxone n subutex as they are harder to kick than opiates like roxy. Good luck n god bless.
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Omega 3 fatty acids taken at 3x higher than reccomended the daily dose helps stabilize the brain. That's from a psychologist.
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It is nice to see that people understand that after so many years of chemical imbalance, the body takes a while to find a base line. Endorphins are the chemical most afcted by opiate intake and exercising is really the best treatment for that. The other issue is that a large number of opiate dependent patient , liked the feeling of opiates in first place because is a numbing device. It does numb misdiagnosed depression, anxiety issues, stress and many other uncorfortable feelings that has to be properly assessed and treated.
Best of luck
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The best thing one can do to deal with post opiate depression and withdrawal are the usual no brainers and many are free or inexpensive.

1. First, get PLENTY OF SLEEP. I had to take prescription sleep aids for a couple of days when I first stopped Vicodin. Sounds counterproductive but it was very effective. I quit the sleep aids within 3 days. I have 4 valedictorian degrees and found that I am actualy smarter than most doctors I have ever met and completely debunk alot of their myths about not taking any other meds.The emotional state and maturity level of the patient is the most important factor in deciding, not some stupid medical journal.

2. Next, get plenty of fluids especially freshly squeezed fruit and veggie juices nothing from a carton or can and preferably organic if you can afford it. The enzymes and phytonutrients will be amazingly instantly absorbed into your system and give you natural energy like you have never seen. Stay away from any kind of bottled drinks and coffee. Mild green tea is ok but not too much.

3. Take a really good professional Vitamin combo. Dr. Whitakers is ok and Douglas Laboratories makes some great combo packs to fit every body type. Natures Purest also makes one of the best combo packs in the world if you can afford it.

4. Exercise. If you are too weak to workout, bike, etc. Just walk around the block at least once a day. Before long you will be walking around the whole park or neighborhood.

5. Avoid TV, and the NEWS. They are horribly bad for the CNS. If you have to watch TV watch comedies not actions, drama, horror etc.

6. Meditate - Go to a meditation center such as a Zen Center or Yoga center that will help you refocus your inner energy into positive energy.

7. Get Massage - massage helps squeeze toxins out of your flesh. Massage is the next best medical alternative to exercise known to mankind. If you can't afford a pro go to a massage school - you can get some great interns for about $25 that are as good as many pros.

8. Therapy - someone to talk to never hurts.

9. Journaling - Journaling is a type of self therapy that will really help you get in touch with what you are going through. Many people have lived through death camps and the worst things imaginable by keeping a journal.

10. Prayer - Prayer is a form of healing meditation and you don't have to get religious at all. I created my own prayers that didn't use any dieties and didn't had no references to Church or anything else which made me feel great.

11. Nature watching and gardening- if you are in a place where you can watch bunnies, birds, squirrels, hummingbirds they help reconnect your natural balance to nature.

12. Engage in Positive Self Talk.  Read the book "What to Say When You  Talk To Yourself" by Shad Helmstetter. A  real life changer if you actually read it from the start to the finish instead of just skipping around.
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I really needed to hear that right now. Thank you for taking the time to write exactly the thing that would give me hope. cheesy, i know, but i'm emotional damn it.  
kt
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Well written. I enjoyed your colourful, seemingly truthful explanation of your thoughts/feelings:) Stay happy my friend.
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And you too dearest Brightly:)
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Try Niacin! It is used as a homeopathic therapy for depression. Taken in larger than average doses (2-4) pills a day, or in lots of Niacin rich  organic foods for as long as needed will almost always cure a depressive state of mind. The side effects of niacin will be much less harmful than those of prescription ADs. I hope the best for you and your recovery.
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5817611 tn?1374802465
HEY SPOOK ,I KIDNAPPED A PIECE OF YOUR POST,AFTER,"REMEMBER.I ALSO LIKE CRIS'S INFO.PEOPLE NEED FACTS AND ENCOURAGEMENT.POST OPIODE ADDICTION WORLD IS IN A CRITICAL STAGE .
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I stopped cold turkey 3 weeks ago from morphine and have not been myself lately.  I have been depressed, forgetfull and just been on this bummer mood thing.  I can only assume that this is part of withdraws for me.  Has anyone had similar problems?

I am hoping that this will pass soon as the depression has goten to the point that I don't want to get out of bed and if I could I would just sleep all day long.

Nutty in Ca.
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