Depression or Drug Use?

How do I know whether I am looking at clinical depression or evidence of drug use? I don't want to make false assumptions but I would respond to one differently than the other.  If my son is clinically depressed, my expectations of him being self supporting are different than if he is using heroin ( he claims he no longer is). I just don't want to perpetuate the problem by enabling him to continue use, if that is what it is. How can you know for sure?

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

What came first...the chicken or the egg?  Who knows the answer better than the addict himself?  The point is...he is going to have to come to grips with his problem and you are obliged to be patient until he does. J.B.

[Thomas02]

Is he always down? or does he get down, then sweaty an agitated, then finds an excuse to "run an errand," then returns home in a completly tranquil, relaxed or even sleepy mood, and suddenly thinks the world isn't such a bad place after all? And then, does the cycle start all over again the next morning? Might be a clue.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Sorry to interupt but I have another question about L-Tyrosine.I took it again today (remember I am an addict) and feel great. I just feel a sence of well being. This is very good considering I don't feel that way all that often. My question is this. How often can I get away with taking this and are there any sisde effects? I take 3 1000mg tabs....Thanks guys, Chad

[CASEY]

Thanks to all responders. Patrick, you hit the nail on the head. Those "errands" are going to kill me (and him, too.) Thanks, Casey

[spook]

4grams 3 times per week(spooks recipedium for natural cures)

[spook]

side EFFECTS ARE INCREASESED ABILIYT TO GET A DEEP DARK 'SEXY' SUNTAN So my re`v`9c)ommendo-sasions is take care  TAKE CARE OR NEXT ADICITION IS SEX ARE YOU WILLINg(willy''''''''0) YO BECOME`A ADDICTED TO se`X` it ha~r "i")singular),have beem their AIDS <SYPOHIILIats(trendY,d),gonerrelality ,herpies (herpes),Aids,Demoralization,genital warts HCV and other thet eill just plain scare ypou shitless use a CONDOM.Sorry ;N
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]MASSIUVE EGE MASSIVE eGO]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]have lost the thread do thikz(k-v*-) may o/e maynot make any senseshioulfv`not typr onve==or-sex=mc^2 pdyciabnemrede,psychadelics,my mind is bursrtindz trrough this crappt unicverse Quantum Universesz have immense meanind,sorry 800micos is a bit to mushz to typoze csenes.

[Thomas]

I finally got tired of the "patrick for tom" kluge moniker and performed a little surgery on my "cookie." It didn't get me back to plain old tom, but I'll settle for Thomas.

[Thomas]

whatever you were on writing that last post I'd like to try some ...

[Thomas]

this is patrick, but I finally got my nickname corrected to Thomas: you're welcome for the info. I've been a opiate addict for almost 30 years (not practicing at the moment, thankfully), but that pattern of behavior comes directly out of my own experience. It's pretty universal for us junkies.

[CASEY]

I know I can't force him to get help but my party line now is: No, I won't give you money to live on your own but you are welcome to live at home if clean. I will get him any help he needs to get clean but not to live away from home since it gives him carte blanc to do whatever. Does this sound reasonable? He is 19, not working but wants to live in the city. He says he can't work because he is clinically depressed. I am so tired of all our family energy and finances going to keeping him afloat. The craziness of addition, huh? thanks again. Casey

[spook]

6mg of xanax washed down by three bottles x(750ml) of swan stout 7.4% alcohol.I will take some LSD oneday and post  for ammusement,I believe you have xanax and alcohol available,but do not underesimate the thousands of LSD doses I have taken and how they influence my reaction to intoxication,I get way out there with  either legal drugs now,Look Lsd is easy to obtain in America but remember I have no responsibilities ,you have a wife and family,if you have a Psychotic break do not blame me,it can be fun in the right life style,single live alone,own home,enough money for bills ,no debt healthy,etc,etc.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Spook!....That's it!  You were on an LSD trip that day you posted all that psychobabble...Come on, tell the truth.  Are you really gonna do that.  Let me know when, cause I will surely tune in.  You will be in for the trip of your life.  I bet you won't touch that **** again.  Not w/ me around.  LOL  Love Ya, Annie

Pat....You are too funny.   It's nice to know that you can joke about things the way you do.  I have a question.  I was thinking about changing my screen name, because my husband calls me Annie sometimes as a joke.  My mother knows this.  I want to continue to remain anonymous through-out the year.  Do I just re-register here, under a new name???  I am not the least bit worried about my cookies...lol  Nothing that I can't find again....and they drag my system down anyway.  lol

Love,

Annie

[spook]

they may say that your current email is already in use,so you may need a hotmail email account to do it'
Annie I know "LSD" is carbage,it is a drug and of course drugs pollute the mind.

[spook]

Depression causes drug abuse ,drug abuse causes depression,to keep it simple get
him of the drugs as they are just self medicating the underlying depression,he would have never have  turned to drugs if he had not had some degree of depression(it can range from increased needs(love sex friendship) to suicical intent and accomplishment)
Every person on the planet is Depessed at some stage or another it is only when it is persistent and interferes with normal functioning,that a Diagnosis is considered,then of course he will be expected to be honest about what came first.
Sometime kids get stoned because it feels good ,you know like: sex,and eventually this leads to depression(endogenous)type,sometimes sressfull events occur like problems with friends ,sex and love and this causes Depression (Exogenous)
Most often the 2 things evolve simualtaniously during the durbulent teenage years and there is no need to distinguish which one occured first.Get him of the illicit drugs ,give him love and understanding-(remember the world has changed since you where a teenager)talk to him about his sexual desires and friends and whether or not they use drugs ,allow him to do anything he wants,that is a good tactic that allows total honesty between you and him,try to understand his PAIN it is UNIQUE and if you can form an opem and trusting relationship with him he will confide ,never critisize only accept and one day he will see the error of his ways and maybe one day he will provide you with loiving grand  children.

[spook]

turn on ,turn in ,and drop out.
what have you got to lose?
Would you like to leave your body for a cosmic holiday,/I will be your guide,we can stop by and have a chat to Jesus on the way to the secret zone..?
am i serious or just stirring?.

[Brighty]

Spook has a good perception of the use of drugs and the after effects and the hope for the future which is probably the most worthwhile of his comments in his post to you... because there IS hope and he knows it and so do I. But YOU can't get him off this ****, he has to do it himself and it's hard to know what the catalyst will be.

It appears to me that you are just not sure if your son is still using. My beautiful 22 year old daughter used heroin for 3 years and is clean a year now... so there is hope.

I could not tell during some periods of time if she was using or depressed...she always said she had quit.... yeah right !! If he was living with you at the time of his withdrawl (withdrawal) you surely would have been aware of it... I have seen withdrawl (withdrawal) and you will KNOW it's happening... if he was living somewhere else when he kicked then it may be hard for you to know for sure... some people are more functional on heroin than others.

JB is correct and on target and also for me... I got to know the symptoms... the pinned pupils... the intensity when she would sit and smoke and read books for hours, constant motion and inability to sleep at some times, and deep, death like sleep at other times, up all night and erratic emotions, over emotional responses to lots of things, scratching and fidgeting, nodding off in a chair or at the computer, changes in the octave of her voice and a dreamy cloud nine attitude.... it was a mixed bag so it's not like every time she used she displayed all these symptoms... and a big key is going out on errands and a change in behavior on returning... having to leave no matter what, money missing, ... basically, totally abnormal from what the person used to be like.

I DO NOT think you are unreasonable to not support him if he wants to go live in the city... seems like he wants to have you finance an apartment and he does not intend to work... and chances are great that if he's not in a recovery program that he will be around all the wrong people and have too much free time on his hands and will be using again if he's not already... it's a drug of secrecy..... how nice to have dad pay rent so he can possibly relapse... NO WAY... as a parent I would  not support a culture of death for my child... if he's sincere about staying clean he will be glad to hang home and get strong again until he feels able to work or go to school. Heroin is a deadly drug... if they don't od, they still have a good chance of getting hep c or HIV... hang tough... you are supporting him... with a safe home, healthy food, and an environment of love.. his addict friends are not going to care for him... when he finally seems normal again and willing to do his part then you will be better able to judge if you are then ready to help him financially to move into an apartment and able to sleep at night that he is doing things right. God bless you... I have been there and it's horrible. Love, Brighty

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Sorry to bust in again but I was just wondering what straight people acctually do on a Friday night. I am comming up on 30 days clean and I am quickly going insane! While I love the hell out of the straight life, I am confused as to how I am suppose to live it. I don't know what to do with myself! I attend meetings daily and I go to the movies alot. Oh yeah, for any recovering addict out there I highly recommend the new movie BLOW. That movie doesn't bring back one memory! I swear! Go see it! You will not have a urge to use at all! I promise....

Anyway, so is this what the straight folk do?I think I need a hobby!

SPOOK! whattheHELLareyoutalkin'aboutagain!?!DuDElAyyyOfFTHeACid!

[PS >>>>Annie]

.........UH, Stirring??????????

[PS >>>>Annie]

You crack me up real bad!!!!!!!!  Spook is so entertaining at times.  I must say, I do worry about him.  Other times I think he's just fooling us.  

Spook, I want your email address, and I want it now...young man!
I asked pat for it, but he's ignorring me. lol.....no lmao
By the way.....I do have a hotmail address.  You'll get it when I email you.  

LSD IS SATAN'S DRUG OF CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know, he told me so. lol

[PS >>>>Annie]

....chat on the computer. lol  paint, sing and listen to the radio.  uh, then there is bookwork, bills, watch movies and eat popcorn.  ummm theres the jacuzzi bath, and bubbles...uh, eat lot's of chocolate...um uh  read the good book, take some notes.....uh let's see.....(pretty boring huh?) Fuss at the kids, "hey stop that horse-playing!"  Watch 20/20.....and get very aggravated.  Oh, and say my prayers before I go to sleep.

Hang in there chad.......We're w/ you!

Love,
Annie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Sorry Casey, I missed the point of your original post.  I thought that you were asking whether heroine use caused clinical depression or visa versa.  Spook hit my feelings on that subject pretty well in that we all have to deal with depression clinical or other.  It's a lifelong struggle for a lot of us who juggle chemicals and sanity(what's that?).  

I got some L-Tyrosine capsules today and am going to experience them tomorrow morning at 4 AM.  I will do it empty stomach and with B6 and bottled water.  Will let you know if it works.  God knows that I need something to help me with this fibromyalgia that I suffer from(pain and memory loss).  J.B.

[Brighty]

My understanding is that you can do any thing you used to do or would like to do as long as you do not do it with the old drug people, in the old drug places, and not do the things also that you totally associate with being high... basically, hang with people in recovery when possible, avoid who and where you can cop the stuff from. Generally, hanging out with no goal is what people do when getting high... have a plan for the evening and stick to it... you may encounter some non-expected opportunity that will be tempting and that is why you need a sponsor and need to learn relapse prevention skills... one never knows where drugs could show up even if you planned well... someone could have some and you will be sweating it... this is why you must have a game plan. So think of what you would really love to do short of drug use, plan who will be with you, where you will go that is safe and then call it a night when you are done, do not change your plans and wander aimlessly hoping you will find something to do... idle time stopping in at peoples' houses can be dangerous unless they are totally straight folks who do not allow users in either. This is common sense but is also what my daughter has learned in recovery and from her sponsor. Hope it helps. BTW, Philly is a GREAT city, with great people and sooooo much to do... you can live there a lifetime and not have done everything... get the Sunday Inquirer and try some new and enriching outings to go along with the new and wonderful life which you and Debra have chosen !!! You're gonna make it just fine. Love, Brighty

[Francoise]

Well, frankly, m'am, depression is depression no matter where it comes from. Clinical depression seems to be an imbalance in brain chemistry. The depression consequent to drug use is also an imbalance in brain chemistry. The depression you get the next day after going off on a bender the night before is another imbalance in brain chemistry. And I've had all three. The difference between them all is what's in Casey's brain, not what's in Casey's son's brain.

And in my opinion, a severely depressed person is not capable of self-support no matter the origin of their depression. I feel it would be less than humane to expect any depressed person to be self-supporting.

Francoise

[spook]

this is where Tyrosine and keeping yourself Distracted and entertained is imortant to prevent relapse.
Problem is how does a person in post Opioid depression entertain themselves,Depression is basically defined as the inability to feel pleasure.So you do it tough and get through that six months or more until you are better,this is what separates a Recidivist from an ex-Addict.
To complicate things further,I personally do not see any moral ,ethical or health issues in the paradigm of Recreational drug use,done with education and clean known safe chemicals.
Only problem they are all illegal that is why I told Chad from Philly to have a few beers,what do you think the DEA agents do after a hard days work taking your favorite drug from you.
Heres the other side of the coin if you can DO life without drugs you will get higher than any drug I have ever tried(many),this is my concern with Chad(Philly)you girlfriend should be an exquisite high,natural ,legal and beautiful
I say again to CHAD from PHilly "it takes time you are rushing things expect to feel rotten for months".
One day the sun will shine again,get off the merry go around roller coaster ride that DRUGS are for MOST people (not me).  

[spook]

When I post on an Actual LSD "trip",I will claim to love you all and know what each and every one of you is going through,I will transcend emotion and touch your very soul,you will feel unburdened from the constriants of normalcy and ego,you will be reborn,my words will touch you like the sadest song you know ,they will remind you of everthing that you expected in life and never got,I will become a mirror of you subconscious and direct the light back to your soul so god will be your guiding light not me.
If I was given powers like jesus do you really think I would go public with them,I do not like being crusified,for trying to help.
Put it this way Annie when jesus returns,he is not going to come around to your house and ask if you have run out of wine and ask for a glass of water,when he can go and by some at the liquour store.

[Thomas]

who's ignoring you?

***@****

I think I've posted this about 10 times this week. I don't want to **** spook off, especially with all those powerful drugs he's got laying around. He's likely to come over here, take a big dose of PCP, and beat the **** out of me! So, right it down this time, annie.

Peace.

[Thomas]

annie,
I looked over the site for a "normal" way to re-register and didn't find one. So I deleted all the cookies in my system and then registered as a newbie. If you use a lot of on-line commerical sites, like Amazon.com or Priceline, they probably won't know you with the cookie gone, so you'll have to re-establish your memberships here and there.

Easiest way to find the cookies:

(for Windows)
Under the start menu, use Find; search your C; drive for
*cookie*.*

delete the ones that say cookie.txt.

Now, if you suddently can't get into something important as a result of doing this, remember I warned you that could happen.

Peace.

[PS >>>>Annie]

Spook, will you analyze each of us??  Tell us what our true calling is?? lol  Like a Tarot card reader.....lol  Should be interesting.

Pat....I was on the floor, lmao.  Thinking the very same thing often.  Nevertheless, thank you for the risk ..lol

Love yall,

Annie

[PS >>>>Annie]

Thomas......I cannot think of a new "handle".....lol This is the assignment for Saturday  April 7th: A new screen name for Annie.
I don't think QuantumPsycho fits well????  HELP.  We will take a vote.  LOL Should be very interesting.  I will tune in tonight.  Going on a little adventure. BYE

Ps....Thanks for the cookie info.  

Annie ??????

[Thomas]

is this your son or boyfriend? I've forgotten. In any event, how does he know he's "clinically depressed"? Has he been medically evaluated and found to be have clinical depression? That's an entirely different story. I still think he's just waiting for that next errand. I'm afraid that he's going to take you on a good, long ride before this thing is over. You know, you can buy drug test kits in the pharmacy and challenge him to prove he's not using. The thing is, you sound like an innocent in the drug jungle. As such, you're going to have a hard time cutting through the bullshit to get to the truth -- and he knows this. The one consummate skill all junkies develop is the ability to manipulate, exploit and lie to get what they want, and they're favorite mark is always an innocent who isn't prepared for what's coming or used to treating people with suspicion on a constant basis.

[spook]

I am innocent,this time round no region or orbcult,just you and and me,one loaf of bread will you share?

[Brighty]

Check your e-mail, Francoise :-))

I do agree with you, Francoise, totally.. almost to the last word of your post. HOWEVER...

My comments in the post above are because Casey seems to NOT know if her/his son is using heroin. NONE of us know if he is clinically depressed, nor does Casey. She does not know if he has kicked and now has post opiate depression... her question is right on target... if he's depressed she does not expect him to work... but if he's simply getting high Casey does not want to support him or his habit.

And as Francoise and Thomas appropriately state, it's not revelant whether or not depression is caused by the drug, pre-existing or post opiate withdrawl (withdrawal). Depression is depression. But is he depressed... 6 bags a day handle that, don't they ??

BUT friends... before we decide if he's depressed and wether this poor depressed kid should be forced to work, lets find out if he's still using... it sure seems like it... and in that case Casey would be crazy to pay for an apartment so he can continue to kill himself... or to relapse if he is clean and now depressed and not getting some sort of help.

We could have all given a better answer, including myself... to get a better handle on the the truth and see if the boy wants to get help for either his addiction or his depression.

Casey... the posts here on the L-tyrosine may be helpful... I have no idea if much will help if your son is still using... but it's worth a try if he is persistent that he is now clean.

Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

I don't know a thing about surgery on cookies and all that stuff... HOWEVER, there is a LOGIN function on the HOME PAGE of this site... it's the page where you choose if you want to come to this forum or one of the other med help medical forums... in the left hand columm there is a spot to click on LOGIN and you can change your identity.... if you are on  a shared computer.... lets say Chad from Philly!!! and his girlfriend Debra want to come to this board but with their own identity and they use the same computer.. they each register.. Chad already has... so Debra registers and gets her own password... if she was the last person on the site and Chad goes to enter he will see her name in the comment box.. so he goes to the login and enters his nickname and password.. OK ?? But you have to register any name you are using... essentially you can come to this board under many different identities which I think is weird...but for those who share a computer it's an essential function.. or for Tom, Patrick for Tom or Thomas.... LOL !!

Got that... ??? register, sign in,... but if you want to change your name or share your computer with someone...register, and change who can enter by going to the LOGIN on the home page.

Love, Brighty

[Thomas]

thanks for the tip. In my case, it remembers that there used to be a "tom" and won't let me use it. I think your method, however, sounds fine as long as you're re-registering with a nickname that hasn't been used - ever.

[Brighty]

Correct-o-mundo !!!

Like e-mails... you need to have a nickname different from others... hence so many common names with long numbers after them such as mary49562 !!!! LOL !!

If you were the first "Tom" here you should have no problem entering should you ?? What happened when you tried to enter as "Tom"... did it say it was taken ??

Love, Brighty

[Francoise]

Brighty, this board and this world are better places because you're in them.

[siliconboy]

Spook has that depression/dope circular logic thing correct. The last time I fell - no jumped off the wagon I had moved from Scottsdale - sunshine all the time to Portland OR - sunshine not much of the time. I was cool for 2 years and truly enjoyed the mild climate, moist green-ness of it all. At year 3 we had no summer and I was tired all the time, slept poorly - had the symptoms. Told my doc and he gave my some kind of serotonin drug that whacked me seriously - stopped taking those. I had sinus surgery and got lots of Oxy - couldn't hack the kick and the depression. I went to the local meth clinic copped dope right out front and spent the next three years fighting a gorrilla. I had to move out of that gray rainy **** to resolve the underlying issue there. I love the NW but can't live there. What a viscious awful circle that drug, motivation, depression thing is. I feel for Casey and her son. No easy answers eh...

[McGill]

Is this a bulletin for help or just a bunch of babble about hallucigenic drugs?  There are always those to ruin things.  I'm sure it is both for depression.  Many need drugs for self-mediacation but in the long run, illegal drug use just does not help.  Getting help for depression may eventually lead to him feeling better and a step toward not abusing drugs.

[Thomas]

yeah, it told me someone was already using the nickname. I use Thomas for all professional work, which means I probably use Thomas more often than tom anyway. I think it's more befitting of my soon-to-be dignitary status in hell, anyway. "That's Mr. Thomas to you, O Lucifer, Lord of Flies, Friend to all Republicans (one in particular) ..."

[spook]

I agree,I get completely out of control sometimes,thanks for bringing me back to Reality

[spook]

I have just obtained?(want for a better word) a new 24/7 TCP/IP Dial up networking password and user name,that has multiple and varied users(large corporation),it uses "password authentification protocol"(and an excellent fire fall)and I change the name,user name, and reg key and chip serial number of my PC regularly,also the (primary DNS was hard to crack)even though it is a proxy server,of coarse I do not have an email account with the company,but now get free permanent internet use `cool`,so I will probably not dial up my other ISP account(4 hrs per day max and $15-month US not AUS $30-) much in future,I will prob get a hotmail account that is Supported by TCP/IP not SMTP and POP3 protocols,basically I have a permanent free ISP connection now,but no email using this server,maybe I will check my legit email address ***@**** from time to time and get a hotmail account soon.Whatever,whenever,also where is the internet police?I want to get their opinion on all this?.esp using PHreak redirect Hardware to make the initial call from a mobile redirect call made using a scanner to interface with a mobile redirect account to loop back to a echo station for bell test technicians.

[Brighty]

I sincerly do not believe you are to have any status in Hell... sorry.... however, friend to all Rebublicans could cause you some serious problems with St. Peter....maybe even me !!  
BTW, I liked Patrick for Tom the best, especially because you didn't Ms. it and put in any hyphens !

Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

Does it really matter you have this ?? Isn't eyerything ever on your hard drive forever gone to "so called cyberspace" totally findable  or trackable ?? That has always been my concern... and a nice understandable reply, please... I have no technical understanding.
And what is it you are saying or doing that they are so interested in you anyway ??? :-))

Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

Sorry to belabor this...and it's not really important.. and I also realize that your are computer savvy and did not need that big instruction for the login... but I bet others did... now here is what I don't understand..... before they had the register and get a password requirement I was Brighty... and then one day I needed a password to get in... just happened out of nowhere...so I entered Brighty and it sent me a numerical password... so how did it remember there used to be a Tom and wouldn't let you in ?? I guess this is dumb and my mind does get curious about such non essentials... that's why I'm not a neuropsychopharmacologist today .....  but does that mean that there was a Tom who did enter as Tom and got a password ?? Hmmmmmm, I wonder who he is ???? Am I losing it ??? I guess I do need a break from this board !!!

Love, Brighty

[Frankinscense]

You didn't mention if he has had a proper diagnosis? Casey even he is diagnosed with clinical depression.  YOU are enabling him my supporting him financally. If he goes out to visit friends, my impression is that he is not clinically depressed. I work with clients on a daily basis who have dual diagnosis issues. They take their medicines. And the majority of them work at a job. Because they know if they don't they will not have money.
Dan..

[Brighty]

Good point,Dan... that's why a few of us don't think it's friends he's visiting...well, dealer friends maybe, if you want to call them friends !! And if he's still using do you think he can be properly treated for the depression ??? I don't because I think for him the heroin IS the treatment right now. Thanks for the balance. Love, Brighty

[spook]

Basically It means I get free internet(last person to get caught,for stealing 4000 hrs of internet time landed in jail.
When they trace me if they get bored or something,they will not find the ISP I am using,they should get an autoresponder that redirects them to a unrelated busy dial tone,so they will need hardware infiltration to locate ISP(internet service provider)The ISP will not notice or trace me as they already have 3 or more PC`s permanently connected 24/7 using the same username and password,so it is unlikely they(?)will do anything,anyway beats paying $200 month for permanent Internet connection.
I have nothing to hide,it is already hidden.

[Brighty]

:-)))))

Now the logical part...isn't free intenet access getting to be the norm now... or next to nothing nominal fees ?? So why all the need to do this... but it does seem to have other advantages to not have a findable ISP :-))) Hope I'm on track here (??)
About what you have hidden... that is the most intriguing thing about you... well you know you are so well liked here by most.. all different reasons perhaps... but the idea that you know things I want to know and maybe can tell me... that's interesting to me... I am a doubter and have no clue if you are right but likely have more information than anyone else I know...I will stop here... that is all I will tell you. I do not like all the LSD stuff though... you know there are some of us who are looing for enlightment the natural way and while you may tell me that LSD is natural it's not for everyone and has done major damage just being used by people looking for a new experience. I do not intend to ever use it and feel strongly that I have revelations also and will contine to have them... that to me is quite natural for any of us on the path of life I think.

Love, Brighty

[spook]

LSD should only be taken by very emotionally stable and OPEN minded people,otherwise it will cause severe psychological disturbance.
It already naturally occurs in the brain so maybe you do not need an exogenous supply.
You would probably hate DMT even more,as communication with alien entities would possibly confuse you or be dispelled as a hallucination,but the fact stands that DMT resides in the Pineal gland
you probably do not smoke pot,but some more news THC is a natural Neurotranmitter.
What we are doing by taking these drugs? is enhacing their influence upon Conition and emotion and consciousness.
Come to think of it you would not use Valium)diazepine) either but unfortunately that also occurs naturally within the brain along with Morphine and Codeine.
In fact straught people are so so stoned they just do not realize it.

[Brighty]

Very evasive... and so direct.

What is DMT... most of us know it as dextromethorphan.. .something in cough syrup I think. I hardly think that's what's in the pineal gland. :-))

Love, Brighty

[spook]

<a href="http://www.keelynet.com/biology/dmt.htm" target="_new">I am not telling Fairy tales</a>.

[spook]

<a href="http://members.aol.com/Zahdio/kirk.html" target="_new">Read this it is Fascinating</a>.

[siliconboy]

http://www.asktom-naturally.com/naturally/brain.html
thought this might be of interest to those who are interested:)

[Thomas]

thanks. most interesting, indeed. Tends to validate what spook's been telling us.

[siliconboy]

spook definately knows his **** about that entire aspect - he's  scary actually - spooky I say :)

[Brighty]

Thank you for what looks like some fascinating reading.. I've added to my favorites and will read later tonight or Tuesday as I'm away for a day.

How do you find all this ???

Love, Brighty

[spook]

"They"? found me.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Spook send me some DMT! I can make us stinkin' rich! I will have the entire Philadelphia area begging for it! Please send some ASAP! At least send me some GHB as I am sure it is still legal (thanks Clinton!) in your country.

[Thomas]

Oh great chad. Then you can go to state prison where you'll get all the sex you want -- whether you want it or not.

[spook]

International Antiaging Systems (IAS)
PO Box 2995 Phn/Fax: (UK) 181 444 8272
London N10 2NA E-mail: ***@****
United Kingdom
They sell GHB in the form of Alcover.
140 ml (24.5 g) $85
560 ml (98.0 g) $320

[spook]

<a href="http://dmt.lycaeum.org/extract/where.html"_new">Synthsize or Extract your own from common plants</a>.

I have got enough money now.

[Brighty]

Good information to a man who prefers women.

[Thomas]

My "drug universe" (with the exception of pot and, thank god, very, very little coke back in the mid 80's) has always been limited to the pharmacy. You're DMT web page (and others like Erowid (SP?) gives me a glimpse of a vast domain of drug uses and cultivators and experimenters. This amazing world of ours!

[spook]

Some say a Picture is worth a thousand words,a vision a thousand thoughts.
                                                               <a href="http://www.empathogens.com/
" target="_new">Empathogens</a>.

<p><center><img src= http://www.empathogens.com/parad2.jpg </a></center>

  

[Brighty]

That page would not open... it sent me to www.hedweb.com

Is that where you wanted us to read ? I have not been posting since I am busy with all your reading... and then the links send me to far off places... and I started a garden and went to the library... I will post again eventually... and thanks to all of you for your posts and comments.. I am not ignoring you.. just off on another project just now. Love, Brighty

***@****

[Brighty]

See post above this one... your names were too long to fit and would not leave you out for the world !!

Seems that JB is not around.. am worried.. if he returns please give him my e-mail

***@****

Love, Brighty

[siliconboy]

that post made me think of sitting in an english garden waiting for the sun :)
nice to hear from you brightness..

[siliconboy]

please email me at dn_sherrod***@**** - I have something to tell you about the ring of fairies thing but it's not appropriate here. I know you address is on here somewhere but I can't find it and I'm swamped today..
DS

[Thomas]

I was curious how you got the quite beautiful jpeg image to display automatically. I played around with a few techniques, but couldn't get it to work on the forum comment page. What's the trick?

[PS >>>>Annie]

........"someone" told me that LSD was RAT poison???  What do you think>?

[siliconboy]

there is that whole strychnine thing rearing it's ugly head!!!!!!!!!!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm back again.  I've had some health issues to conquer.   My diabetes has been going haywire lately and I was having problems controlling my blood sugar.  For a while there I thought that I was losing my mind!  I'll send you an e-mail later, I have to go in for some x-rays this morning and have to leave shortly.  Love Ya,  J.B.

[cindi]

Haven't seen Brighty around lately  I sure do miss her  but I missed you also and even though I'm not Brighty will I do? LOL  I'm glad to have you back  your presense was missed....I hope you got everything taken care of and squared away.....please take care of yourself, do it for you and marty she really needs your strength....please give her my best,,,,and take care   Love cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Brighty takes a break from time to time but she'll be back soon. She's probably trying to get caught up on all her e-mail these days!

I've been busy myself during all this great weather we've been having here in Indiana.  It never ends when you have thirteen acres of land to upkeep.  Take care, Cindy, and thanks for the nice message!  J.B.

[spook]

The basic HTML formular is below,I had to replace < with( and > with )and you will have to same to use it(if I did not it would be not visible as the things between < disappear on the HTML format ,but can be viewed through note pad using edit,so I may have hidden message here:<secret is 666>can you see it?.
I suggest you copy and paste the code below to a new text doc and then do the alterations and save.
Next when ever you want to add a picture to a HTML document ie this forum just cut and paste on forum reply box BUT subtitute after the = the address(URL) of the picture,this  Highjacking and can **** some web admin off as you are linking directly to their server and not paying fees.

(p)(center)(img src=http://www.*.jpg  (/a)(/center)

[spook]

Using edit on the tool bar or :file-drop down menu "edit with windows notepad"is showing everything in the page except our text,it worked different last time I tried it,however it is not a problem as you can right click page and select "view source",now scroll down to the area of my post that says secret message Here:and you will see it,when you tell me what the number of the massage is ,I would give you lesson 2.On secret messages and Hijacking web sites.

[spook]

Yes thats where I wanted to link to but I accidently left some code in the place.

<a href="www.hedweb.com" target="_new">www.hedweb.com(without the BR mistake)</a>.

How are you going with your HTML learning <b>Brighty</b>

Luke

[spook]

Comment By: annie to Spook/4-8post on Wednesday, April 11, 2001



........"someone" told me that LSD was RAT poison??? What do you think>?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Annie,you know that Rat poison is Rat poison and D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide Tartrate is LSD.
"someone" also probably thinks that Strychnine is a good preservative for LSD too,it is not or is it?.
Although their is some argument as to the unstability of LSD being due to denature by Bacteria,a sterile solution in a sealed container kept a 4c was good,well excellent 20 years later,wheres dry salt forms at room temp not exposed to light,degraded noticable in 3 days.
Source/s Albert Hoffman, Luke Edward

[spook]

Apparently I am stuffing up a bit.

<a href="http://www.empathogens.com/" target="_new">Empathogens</a>.

[spook]

Using edit on the tool bar or :file-drop down menu "edit with windows notepad"is happening again,must be my computer,I have done a lot of mods to it,a little unstable lately.
View source is good for viewing HTML as Utilized by HTTP,that way you can learn how to create web pages,then again you could just use front page express,but that will not teach you how to get full control and functionality.

[spook]

I will email you when I have a "Window",otherwise,you can try me on ***@****
I am interested.Thanks.

[cindi]

I got your e-mail and sent you one....but guess what......it came back to me.....i even had an attachement that you won't get now...:(

[PS >>>>Annie]

Re: 4/17~{Rat Poison} Um?? I'm pretty sure the "stuff" you get, is pure as hell......lol  J.J.  embalmer liquid and all! lol

[spook]

try reply to sender and when email is returned with error message,note it down(copy) and email it to me or post on this forum,if I have not heard from you in 2 days I will Hassle my ISP.

[spook]

Annie LSD is a "tool" to open the subconscious,it is not the magic sparkle of eternal god,it may have contributed to 20-30% of my Spiritual Journey and Psychoanalysis?.It is over rated as most things are.It can only help you find the right path,it is then up to you to take the first little baby steps on a very long journey.LSD is ONLY the Beginning a starting point.
Somepeople are naturally tripping so they do not need it.

[CannabisDave]

Drug use and depression are related, and shouldn't be seperated. Someone who had the metabolic disorder of addiction is going to be depressed when they don't have any opioids in their system.  Until the mid-1950's opioids were commonly prescribed for serious depression, but the use of opioids was "stigmatized" in the mid-1950's. Medical researchers are once again finding that opioids can be very effective for some kinds of severe chronic depression. Buprenorphine and methadone have both been effectively used for treating depression.  Another drug that shows promise for treating depression AND addiction is cannabis.  Cannabis itself contains "drugs" of course, but it's much less harmful than most other drugs.  It wouldn't be normal to use no drugs, so people should quit trying to be drug-free...even animals other than humans use drugs!  Rather than trying to be drug free, we should be looking for the drugs that help us. Even using drugs for "recreational" use is "normal", and humans (and other animals) have always done it.  Our government and society push certain drugs on us and our children, but they try to forbid others - why? GREED! The drugs that are banned are the ones that the big drug companies can't make a lot of money on, while the drugs that are pushed are the ones that are very profitable to the big drug companies, because they have enough money to buy influence.  Don't let yourself be brainwashed!