Did some reading about Suboxone

[Lynn79]

WOW, is it really true that the maximum half life of Suboxone is 74 hours, and for Vicodin it's only 3.8 hours???  And will someone please explain to me how exactly a "partial agonist" is possible?  How can they possibly control the medication only binding to part of a receptor?  If you're an addict, wouldn't that receptor autimatically fill itself with what you are supplying to it?  I'm sorry, I'm just really fed up with this stuff.  Even Wikepedia says there is less withdrawal than with a "full agonist" such as Vicodin.  But it just doesn't make sense.  People should be suing Reckitt Benckiser, as the article even says there has been no research done to determine cold turkey or fast taper methods of quitting.  Shouldn't they have tested all of that, so that we get more info than just, "you have to taper very slowly to have little to no withdrawal."  Well, what exactly is "slow?"  I got down to less than a quarter miligram a day, for several months, and I still have worse withdrawal than I have ever felt.  They can't just promote this stuff as a miracle drug, without having tested EVERYTHING having to do with it, especially coming off of it.  BAH!

[BrooklynBoy8148]

In reading the boards I can see that this is a very touchy issue, I know it has been used in Europe sine 1980 but was only approved in 2000 by the FDA. It is only my opinion, but I think it all has to do with the Doctor who prescribes it, the first Doctor had a regiment about bringing urine samples, weekly visits, etc… But he threw me out of his office when I made a comment about the people who did what they did on 9/11 ( my visit was on 9/11 of this year and I swear I did not make one derogatory comment about his ethnicity or faith too long of a story to get into). I find another doctor, he takes a urine test, sees I am positive, tells me to take 3 8MG a day and see him in two weeks on the first visit (no joke). In reading the boards I knew this was way too much, and I have my significant other monitoring my intake and to say the least there is no way I needed 3 pills a day!

[whitie]

big pharm will always be BIG PHARM !!  they are not going to hurt their bottom line,on their monopoly !!

they  and most sub docs do a horrible job of explaining that its a REPLACEMENT NARCOTIC OPIOID, and one of the strongest ones there is. check out the opioid comparison charts out there........


your story has been told many times and I seen people go through sub wd's, personally. reminded me of the same thing I went through with methadone, or heavy duty pill addicts.

some have had better luck, (albeit still went through tough wd's) by using a syringe and water,mixing small amounts in water, to taper off on. basically down to a small spec......thats how strong it is!

with that being said, keep in mind it does have its time and place. has saved peoples lives and so has methadone. I mean some people are on the verge of dying from heroin, IV users and really heavy pill use. it,in those cases is teh lesser of two evils.

[salsinator]

Sub works by attaching fully to the Mu opiate receptor, which seems to be enough to combat withdrawal symptoms.  The half life of 37.5 hours means that if you take 4 mg, in 37.5 hours, 2 mg will still be left on the brain, so it will take 75 hours for one full does to be completely off the brain.  In a full opiate, they stimulate several opiate receptors, not just the mu receptor, but sub is so strong that it works well in small doses.

[Lynn79]

I agree, there's no denying that it is a very useful tool in recovery.  They just need to pinpoint exactly how people should be using it, i.e. short term while getting your previous drug out of your system.  And if they are going to recommend that people stay on it long term, to heal themselves, then they should provide a plan for how to come off of it.  To market it and say that you will have little to no withdrawal, without saying what people should be tapering to, is misleading.

[Lynn79]

So, if Suboxone only binds to the Mu receptor, then it makes sense that the other receptors another opiate would bind to will have time to heal the longer you are on it.  So all of that stuff about healing the brain no longer seems crazy to me.  But, if after 2 years those other receptors have supposedly been working on their own again, then why do people feel worse withdrawal even when coming off Suboxone very slowly?  Is the Mu receptor itself strong enough that when depleted, it causes more pain than the other receptors combined?  This is all so strange to me.

[salsinator]

The way I understand it is the way that suboxone binds to the mu receptor.  It has such a high affinity for the receptor that it will block other opiates from binding, which is why other opiates are blocked while on suboxone.  I do know that their are other opiate receptors, but I believe that the mu receptor is also the one that is bound more with other opiates as well.  I don't know if taking suboxone allows the other receptors to heal, because I do believe that suboxone has some partial binding effects on the other receptors as well.  I may be wrong.  In any event, it still takes some time for the brain to heal after complete detox from sub.

[whitie]

I was just checking out a specific "suboxone" site and it was amazing.  the list of complaints and concerns was everywhere. just like any other opiate or opioid. gals missing periods,guys with no s@x drive, booty issues, it no longer works issues(like anyother opioid!!!),flu like symptoms, sleep issues,vision issues, and on and on


same exact issues people go through with other opioids...