Disturbed

[BQ77]

Wow.  I'll say this first......I can tell I'm clean because I've become more of my old self.  A controlled easy going guy.  At the same time, I'm very opinionated and face to face I'm not afraid to say what I'm feeling about anything.  But, tonight I've decided to be the controlled person.  I actually typed out something I was going to post expressing my opinion on a post I read below, but totally didn't think it was appropriate, but I do want to share a couple other opinions I have.

First, I've come to the realization that this forum is for those who are abusing any type of substance and in most cases appear to realize that what they are doing is wrong.  You don't have to be starting your first day being clean....you just need to realize you have a problem.  Then go from there.  Overall the people on this forum are VERY CARING and VERY HELPFUL.  The positive things I've received from people on this forum immediately has made me become more of a helpful person myself.  I currently talk to a few people daily in private messages helping them go through some of the things I have been through and/or am going through currently.  Anyway, what I know for sure is that this site should aboslutely 100% not be used for help figuring out what certain medication is.  In fact, I find it somewhat ignorant to come to an addiction: substance abuse forum to ask what type of medication you are receiving.  Yes...if you are receiving something new from your doctor, someone here will know.  All of us combined have used and abused just about any kind of medication out there.  But, this isn't the place to be finding out what something is.  I'm sure there is another forum out there for this purpose.  If you are thinking about taking something like Methadone or Suboxone to help your substance abuse and have questions about it...yes...this is the place to be.  Not...."what is (place name of drug here)?  my doctor is giving me this for pain".  That's all I gotta say about that.

What's truly disturbing me right now is another forum here on medhelp.  Pain management forum.  I didn't read much.  Just a certain post with a few posters, but that's all I needed to see.  A place for people to go who have chronic pain to help each other find ways to deal with pain is a good idea.  Really it should be more about finding alternative ways to manage pain.  I mean, we know opiates mask pain....it doesn't cure it.  So, there's no need to really go to a forum and say "you should take opiates, that'll help" because...well...duh.  So, there really shouldn't be any need to have posts dedicated to ragging on people who have abused pain medication.  I completely understand being somewhat angry at those who abuse pain medication because yeah...it makes it harder to start getting that medication you might need.  But, let's be real...if you have REAL pain issues, there are plenty of good doctors out there that can determine what is real and what isn't and will be more than willing to help those who have chronic pain out, so there is no need to trash on the addicts.  Especially from one forum to another.  I guess before I ever abused any pills I would have called anyone addicted to any drug a "loser", so maybe I'm biased.  And maybe it takes actually being an addict to have more of an understanding about addiction and realizing that it's a serious disease.  I don't know.  Plus if those who use pain medication responsibly would actually read mosts of these posts they would realize that most of us here know we have a problem and most who come here are seeking help.  So, isn't that a good thing?  So why trash people from this forum?  I guess I just don't get it.  

Like I said above, majority of us who eventually abused pain meds actually started to take pain meds for some actual reasons whether it was something small like getting your wisdom teeth pulled to something serious like a car accident or just some back pain, most of us didn't start by just taking some one day.  And that's definately not trashing those who only took pain meds for "fun" because that's what a lot of us who started taking them legitamately did eventually was take them for "fun".  

I guess all this babbling above was just me saying that it irked me to see another forum trashing us on this forum.  I mean does that make any sense to anyone else?  I tell you what.  I have some kind of back pain dealing with my spine that I have yet to understand and have questions about (which I will get more opinions from doctors on) and I would think a pain management forum would be a good place to maybe learn and find some info about, but honestly I don't plan on using that forum or even going to that forum again.  That's how much it disturbs me.  Plus I would hope the moderators would delete posts in the future that have people asking about what kind of medication they have.  This is clearly not the place.  If someone gets something from their doctor, they really should be asking them or a pharmacy.  Not a dang addiction forum.  Sorry....guess I just needed to "vent".

Barry

[road2recovery]

Thanks for starting this post...It has turned out to be a very positive one!!!  We are all here for different reasons, but Mh is like family to me...I am really impressed the way this turned out!!  god bless everyone here!!
r2r

[philster]

I have to say that this thread shows the power of our thoughts and words. I don't think I've ever seen a group of people with a common bond treat each other with such acceptance and loving kindness. When I was young and saw a mother with a child throwing a fit in a store I would think to myself, "my child would never do this". Decades later I have had my children do this to me. Last week President Obama made a statement about special olympic people and had to quickly say how sorry he was for the hurtful words spoken. You people in this forum are special because of the pain and hurt you have survived. There is an old song that tells of the dangers of angry words. It says to forgive and love one another. That is the Fathers blessed command. PEACE !

[BQ77]

Thanks everyone for all the replies.  I think in the long run we have all learned some things here.  I'm positive we can all work together and share a common goal to provide a safe and trusting place for all addicts.  I'm no longer "disturbed" and feel that the Pain Management Forum as a whole is filled with great people just like this forum and welcome any of their help and support at any time because let's face it.....anyone with experience with these medications can surely offer some quality help to those who cross that fine line and abuse these substances.  God Bless us all!  Take care.

Barry

[HelpinUtah]

Very well said - thanks!  I think we all agree that this place is amazing and that the people who made some of their comments were only speaking in terms of what they understand and did not mean to offend anyone here.  I'm thankful to see us getting along and letting go of the hurt.  We have come together to understand each other and that's always a plus!  Hugs, Janet

[ForgotRomans828]

I have read all of the posts on this thread and want to share a few thoughts.

I want to offer too that my perspective, at least for the purposes of THIS post, are from the perspective of a health care professional who has been in clinical research for over 5 years in pain managment.  

1)  "Addiction" is a medical diagnosis that manifests itself as a syndrome hallmarked by drugs, alchohol, sex, shopping, gambling, etc. (Notice: it is a medical diagnosis).

2)  There is a difference between addiction and abuse.  Someone on chronic narcotic analgesia is absolutely addicted.  It does NOT mean they are abusing; but if the substance were withdrawn acutely, they would go through acute withdrawl symptoms.

3)  The goal of pain managment is to provide a quality of life that a patient suffering from chronic pain can engage in, but recognize that they will likely have to live with some degree of pain on a daily basis and will not be pain free.

4)  Patients who do the best in dealing with chronic pain are in an integrative, pain management practice that addresses the physical, emotional, mental, spiritual aspects of living with pain.  i.e. - physical therapy, psychotherapy, alternative therapy (vits., herbs, amino acids, acupuncture, massage, cranio sacral, yoga) etc., and developing a "life style" plan to improve the quality of life and coping skill set.

5)  NO ONE, that includes the needle addict, the snorter, the averter the abuser says one day, "Oh, I think I would like to become a junkie!"  There is real pain in that person's life and a (most often genetic) predisposition to suffer from the "medical" problem of addiction.  Substance is irrelevant.

This forum is a wonderful community of support.  I recognize that many people's lives and the lives of their loved ones have been adversely affected and some destroyed by the power of addiction and abuse.  My heart aches for all of these people; but I celebrate the ones who have had the courage to love themselves or their loved ones enough to reclaim their lives; and trust me, it is a VERY hard journey to wellness.

To anyone comtemplating getting their lives back, this community is filled with people JUST LIKE YOU!!!!  Trying to fight, every single day, to get their lives back.
I wish you strength, peace, and support in you journey.

[scaredmom330]

I posted it in the pain management forum not to cause trouble but to make them aware that maybe someone's feeling were hurt because of something said. that is all, maybe I worded it incorrectly but I don't want anyone to get hurt or think the pain management forum is against the substance abuse forum.

sorry again,

[Mollyrae]

I have just read a post by ScaredMom in the Pain Forum of which I am a long time member. She feels that we are "bashing members in this forum" ....We are not. Once in a while we do get someone who tells of abusing narcotics and cheating the Doctor and yes, it makes us mad. It is sometimes VERY hard to get the medication we so desprately need and by saying that...some of us would not function in our daily lives without the medication. I too have a Son addicted to pain meds and I strive everyday to find ways to make his life better. Addiction is an illness and I really do feel bad for that individual and hope that they can come to terms with their addiction for a better life. When I see a post come across our Forum with w/d questions or something along those lines, I tell them to visit this Forum, that there are caring members who can help better than I or others can in the Pain Forum. I appologize if negativity comes across from other members in our forum, that is not who we are and what we are about.

There are " Bad Apples" in any forum. We as a whole are not that way. Please take care everyone and if you ever have someone giving you negative information please contact the CL's in our Forum.

Thank's and my best,
Mollyrae

[scaredmom330]

thanks Dominosarah, I love yall too! and want to be a member here! yall have helped me so much with understanding my son's addiction.

hugs

[dominosarah]

awww scaredmom you know we love you here!!!!  

[scaredmom330]

O.K. I have read all the post and agree with you somewhat. I do not abuse drugs, my son does. I do have many chronic illnesses. I am a member of both this forum and pain management,. I havent and would never bash an addict. yes because of people going to the doctor and saying they are sick  when they are not just to get narcotics has made it harder on the people who need them, and yes there are people out there who can't live with the extreme pain with out them,I myself being one of them,I only hope I am still welcome on this forum because not being an addict doesnt make any difference there are so many here that have helped me understand and help my son with his addiction. I know what narcotics do to people and how easy it is to become addicted and how hard the road is to become clean, and how there are so many that have failed but so what they pick theirself up and try again. I try to be understanding and post postive reply to try and help them and so many has helped me. I have made several friends here and hope to keep their friendship... ok I will quit rambling just know again I have NEVER and will NEVER bash an addict. and apology for anyone on the pain managent forum that has. That is not the purpose of the forum at all.

Hugs

[BQ77]

I totally appreciate your last couple posts.  I had typed up a reply and accidentally closed out my browser (man that upsets me, because I was pretty much finished), but I'll sum it up by saying you deserve a pat on the back. I'll be honest....I totally appreciate someone like yourself who is honest and isn't afraid to speak there mind because in most real life situations, that is totally appreciated because I'm the same way and to be completely honest when I joined this forum and started to post, I also had to learn to bite my tongue a little. Although I'm confident you understand now I'll give a good example to why we have to bite our tongue sometimes:

Let's say there's a young woman who is 20 years old and has a 2 year old daughter whose father left a long time ago.  She's been snorting up to 240mg of oxycontin a day for 2 years.  A lot of us addicts started out by chasing that buzz...but, eventually it can't be caught anymore and then we take a certain amount to just feel "normal".  She realized the whole time that it wasn't right, but it helped hide any depression she had and it just felt great.  Well....now she's sick of it.  She hides it from those close to her and she's screaming on the inside for help, but doesn't know what to do.  So she searches the internet for some advice and comes across this forum.  I'll say this....I searched the internet and found many forums and this by far is THE BEST forum on the internet for help with addiction.  She reads many posts and decides to do it.  Time to let it out.  I can't explain it, but for some reason, especially if you feel embarrassed to tell those close to you, posting on this forum to strangers that you have a problem and need to stop and would like adivce is such a load off your shoulders!  It's such a huge step to just admit you have a problem and need help.  So, let's say she's ready to make this huge step and comes across a post that has someone saying that "people who snort oxycontin for recreational use are losers".  Put yourself in her shoes.  What would you do?  I'm guessing that if that was one of us, we would probably be deterred from posting now.  Now what would of been a good point in her life turned into her being more scared to admit it and now she may continue on the route she was in.

I may or may not agree with your opinions, that's neither here nor there.  The point is we all did what we did already, so there's no preventing that now.  The only thing that's important is we sought help and here we are.  

Please don't be sorry for being who you are and there is no need to explain yourself to any of us why you are the way you are.  Personally I get it and totally appreciate it.  Unfortunately this isn't the place for us to spill out all our opinions.  (Like I said, I have had to bite my tongue too).  It's worth it though.  I have a couple people with whom I've helped personally that PM me pretty much daily and things in their lives have started to get better and wow does that keep me going.  It in turn helps me to stay clean.  

I think I speak for many of us by saying, although you didn't have to apologize in my opinion, I accept.  At the beginning I said I was "disturbed" and it was never my goal to have anyone from that forum come here to defend themselves, I was just venting, but I'm glad you did because it totally has made me less "disturbed".  Your last couple posts speak for themselves.....no need to say you're sorry, just that you understand and I can tell you do now.  You are more than welcome to come to this forum in my book.  Thanks nick....you're a good person.  Take care.

Barry

[nick30]

I feel like at least explaining why i am the way i am. but i don't think i could do that without mentioning things which may make ppl feel bad about themselves, so i won't. I'm not normally nasty, but i'm only human and sometimes 'lose it'.

sorry to anyone who still feels aggreived.

[nick30]

barry i agree with your recent post, particularly

"I'm sure both forums can agree that the problem needs to be fixed and that those using and abusing (no matter how they are using) need some support because if they quit, let's face it, it helps everyone out.   "

I will try harder in future to be less judgemental.

and sarah, can't wait till you hit 365 days clean. how are you feeling now? are you getting used to being back on the wagon? I hope so.

kind(er) regards,

Nick.

[dominosarah]

I just got back from work and have read all the responses.....I understand each and everyones comments.....even nicks....He and i went around before and i will say this about him.....he is honest and says what he feels but he will step up to the plate and open his mind.  It is important that we teach others and show them that we are good people who have a vicious addiction that none of us asked for.  Addicts are stereotyped something terrible in the world.  We can change that and we are right now as we speak.  Our goal here is to help everyone that comes to this forum get clean and stay clean including ourselves.  We are not bad people but our behaviors have been.  Look how we all came together and each and everyone of is fighting for the same thing.  Together we can make a difference.............sara

[HelpinUtah]

Thanks everyone for the wonderful posts here.  And, Barry, great post!  Thanks!!!  

[kim715]

Great post.I don't think any one can say it any better then that.Thank you!!!!!!.....Kim

[BQ77]

Wow, I didn't expect all these replies, but I would like to reply as well.  I think some people are backtracking themselves.  Let me explain something.  Yes, I was prescribed hydrocodone for legitimate reasons and even took them as prescribed at first.  But, I'll say this......I later on took them for recreational use.  I think back before I ever started taking these things I probably felt the same way.  I thought that people who used pain meds for recreational use were losers.  

I may have still felt that way until I became a member of this board.  Let me explain to the chronic pain people who seem to now want to view this forum, what this forum is actually for.  It's not to judge and distinguish who started taking pills legitimately and who started for recreational purposes.  It's not to find out who crushed and snorted the pills and who took them with a glass of water.  IT'S TO HELP AND GIVE LOTS OF INFORMATION TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HAD A PROBLEM WITH ABUSING DRUGS.  At this forum we don't seperate the one who swallowed the pills to the one who crushed and snorted the pills.  That means nothing to us.  One thing I've learned is to totally skip any judgement that I may have and help the best way I can.  Because most of the people who post here are ones who finally admit they have a problem.  They may mention they snorted the pills, but all of us just put that aside and focus on what's the most important thing....recovery.  

I'm not saying you can't have your opinions and even judgements about those people who do take it recreationally....I'm just saying THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO SHARE THOSE THOUGHTS.  Because what you are doing is the absolute opposite of help and that's what this forum is for.  I'm sure both forums can agree that the problem needs to be fixed and that those using and abusing (no matter how they are using) need some support because if they quit, let's face it, it helps everyone out.  

I think if you feel like you need to trash any kind of user, that any forum on medhelp shouldn't be your avenue to do so.  Go to some other website and bash away.  Because saying anything negative about an Addiction: Substance Abuse forum and it's members is totally counter productive.  I think that anyone in this world can just read the posts above and see why this is such a great place for any addict.  They are so positive and so willing to help.  They can put ALL judgement aside and focus on what's important....RECOVERY!

Barry

[SophieShine]

Awesome Kim, your comment is just awesome.

BQ, with all this fuzz, I didn't even tell you how Great and so thoughtful your post is. Thanx to you we had the space to stand up for our rights to be recovering addicts without being judge or trashed.
This place is a safe haven for a lot of us and there's no place for people abusing the privilege to be a member of this family. Yes the privilege. I feel blessed to have come across this site and to have met all the wonderful people on here. They embraced me like one of their own without questions and I can not even start to describe the support and the love I received on here.

Y'all are wonderful people!!!
Case closed for me now!

All my love.
sophie.

[enough170]

well said kim, well said :-)

[kim715]

I too started out taking the pills for a legitimate reason and I actually started out taking less then what I was prescribed because I hated the way they made me feel.That didn't last too long,eventually I started taking the prescribed amount and then complained to my doctor that they weren't working anymore so he upped the mgs.Then like so many of us here I started running out of my script,buying them from dealers,'borrowing' off of drug buddies until my script was due.
I am hurt and I'm very angry about what was said but more then that I feel pity for people who view addiction as a choice and not a disease.I think most of it comes down to just plain ignorance.I agree there is a lot of confusion and misinformation on your part.I never snorted or injected the pills.I was certainly more then a recreational user and I never liked the way benzos made me feel.I preferred the false energy from the pain pills,BUT I"M NO DIFFERENT from the people here that snorted or injected or whos doc was benzos.I'm an addict just like them.This wasn't a choice,no one chooses this path.
You can call us names and wish bad things for us and yes it makes me angry and yes it hurts me but above all that ,I just have to feel sorry for you.I can't imagine how unhappy your life must be for you to say such hateful things.I will tell you this and I know that I speak for every one of us here on this forum.I hope that you never have to find out first hand just what addiction can do to your life.I hope you never have to bury a friend or a family member who has lost their battle with addiction.Just like everything in life though,never say never.I never thought it would happen to me either.


Much love to all of you here on the substance abuse forum.Thank you all for being such wonderful people and for being a part of my recovery......Kim

[refusingbondage]

Well, although I didn't get to read it, It seems that I CHOSE to be an addict.  Yup.  Yes.  Exactly.  Its always been my life long dream..

I may have chosen to stay in active addiction for far too long, but I certainly never chose to be an addict.. in fact, if ANYONE is able to give me that choice, please do.. Its an easy "No Thanks!"

[SophieShine]

Hey guys you know what? It seems that I have an attitude!!!! LOL. That's a 1st one for me.

[HelpinUtah]

I agree - this place is amazing!  The people here at the Substance Abuse forum have literally helped me overcome my addiction and I'm thankful for the constant reminders of how easy we can convince ourselves we are not addicts.  Even taking pain medication for chroinic pain, I became addicted to Lortab and yes, I consider myself an addict and not just dependent.  So, I have to be very careful!  Many people took their drug of choice due to pain which later became an addiction or they took it for anxiety and again became addicted.  Many did NOT doctor shop, etc.  But, even those of us here who took drugs for entertainment to get high and did sell, doctor shop, etc. had their reasons.  We don't know what causes any one of us to become addicts and so compassion and love MUST be portrayed to everyone here trying to get clean and get their act together.  I honor and respect everyone here who has tried to overcome their addiction and have succeeded.  I respect those who have not overcome yet but are still working on it!  Please do not let a few people taint how you feel about yourself!  You know you are loved here and that you have support and encouragement!  To me, addiction is a disease just like fibromyalgia is for me!  It is not to be taken lightly!  Some people resort to drugs to help deal with emotions and depression, which are also diseases in and of themselves.  I do not make excuses for when we mess up - but I do have compassion and love!  

I just hope that we can all remember that!  

Hugs to all you struggling and who are clean - Lots of love to you!  ~~~Janet

[Believer1179]

All I have to say pretty simply is that THIS forum has truely saved my life and ONLY THIS one. I have had several bad experiences on another forum on medhelp as well. Mine was with the Bipolar forum. The level of genuine people of really do care and want to help is that HUGE difference! So I understand your frustration with the other forum you went on.

I too am recovering from pain meds. (and benzos) ! If you've never been there, you can't understand. Remember that.

Later~ Jen