Do Zyban and Zanax mix?

[PaulNieb]

My wife is trying to quite smoking and was recently put on Zyban. The question is if it is safe for her to take Zanax while on the Zyban?

I know that there is an increased risk of siezures when taking Zyban, especially when "abruptly" stopping Zanax while taking Zyban.  But, she only occassionally takes Zanax (once a week maximum) and is in no way approaching abusive or addiction levels.

TIA

[angst]

I believe zyban is similiar to wellbutrin - an antidepressant which is useful for OCD (obsessive compulsive d/o).  It is useful in stopping a person from smoking because smoking is a compulsive behavior.  I read what I could on another pharmacological sight.  I do not think it conflicts with xanax.
To be sure, Call your phamacist.  Do not take my word for it.

[dive]

I know for a fact that Zyban IS Wellbutrin.  It is just repackaged for smokers under the name Zyban.  Check it out, it is the truth.  So maybe to answer your question, you should go to www.rxlist.com and look under wellbutrin and see if it has any contraindications with Xanax.

[OxyDout]

no worries here, I'm all set, but thank you for the offer!!!!!!!!!!!

[groovygirl]

i'm feeling very lonely right now.  i am getting down to the last of my bup.  i can't handle this.  it's just like when i would run low on the percs and vics...that dread of w/d.

i cannot imagine feeling that again....the bup makes me feel good...normal.  now i have to go back to the same old crappy feeling.

i'm a real bummer right now.  normally i post when i'm feeling good, because i don't want to bring everyone down.  i want to be positive and help people - can't do that today i guess...is there anybody out there?

[groovygirl]

here i am again....so many of the people that were here when i first found this place seem to be gone now:(

i wish you'd all come back...i need your words of wisdom even more now...

[OxyDout]

today is another day, keep your head up, something good will happen today,

[hippy]

i can relate to running out., or  the prospect of of running out.
i have been readiing all the post for four weeks now.
what is your plan, toget more bup. maybe try to uae something like darvocet or ultracet to help you  ween down.
Ive heard everyone say that w/d from bup is not nearly as bad.
what ever you do ,post about it.
i have three weeks cold turkry today. the receipe saved my butt.
the with drawl symptoms i suffered the past few years,were almost non existent . and beleive me i am a wimp in that area.
                       whats the plan and keep posting/ michael

[tlk]

Groovy: Have you ever run out of bup before? I have several times (was on for close to year for chronic pain after my first detox from vics). It's the fear that will get you, because it is really not bad. I think the fear was so much worse than the actual reality. When I ran out of bup it was only for a few days, but I had NO withdrawal in the "traditional" sense. A mild depression, but I think that was mental more than because of the physical. I slept fine, didn't eat much, but none of the muscle problems, restless leg, all the other lovely things we go through. Even the depression went away quick. I don't think I would even have had that too bad if it weren't for the fear. I wasn't "up" and the life of the party, like I usually was, but I certainly wasn't suicidal and I could go to work just fine. Well, one time got really bad but that was because it was aggravated by another situation. I guess I'm telling you this to encourage you. It's just not too bad, I swear. It's not even withdrawal physically, more emotional. I always had that when I knew I was running out of my drugs. Let me know your dose and method and I might be able to help more.
tlk

[skipper]

groovy:
your not alone! i know a couple of others beat me to the point on
that one. what's up, are you afraid we won't like you straight,
without the dope or the bup? i don't want to climb on your case
but please don't compare how you feel on the inside, with the way
everyone else looks on the outside. you will come up a loser ev-
ery time you do. gwh brought up the main point here...something
good will happen to you today! what he left out is how will you
ever notice it if you remain in the **** eating mood you seem to
be stuck in today? anything is possiable, we all have only to
learn how to "see!"

i'm going to love and care about you, and there just isn't one
damm thing you can do about!

so get an angel on your shoulder
kip

[hippy]

one of the strangest things in my life has been ,whenever i used
drugs i smoked cigerates, now that im clean 3 weeks no smoking.
when i was a kid i played a lot of sports and only smoked cigerets at night mostly because partying was at night.
I may never understand  it. It's aprial 25 been taking the vit,s
everyday, for 3 weeks ,beencold turkey the whole time.
my knee,s ache, my lower back achs in the wee hours of the morning. but this disapearence of the depression that used to just stop me dead in my tracks,that is great.
Also the last few months i was useing i had this fear ,real bad fear.like inpendind doom. or death. that has lifted also.

[groovygirl]

thanks a bunch for your support.  i emailed the clinic in fl that i went to for the bup, and i asked them to up my dose.  if they upped it to an amount that i feel ok on, then i don't think i would ever be in this situation.  i hope they don't throw me out of the program. that is a huge fear right now.

i am so nervous - i have two amps left, and i keep wondering should i just take them now and feel good for awhile or split them up and feel semi-shitty for a couple days.

tlk - i am prescribed 3 amps per day.  i have a VERY high tolerance to meds, and it just isn't enough.  i have gone thru bup withdrawal before, and i thought it was pretty bad.  you're right that the depression is the worst part of it.  i talked with dr. bodkin who is the head of pharmacology research at mcclean hosp - he told me he maintains some people on 6 amps per day...for depression!  too bad he isn't taking new patients and is trying to switch over to research only.

anyway, thanks guys...i always appreciate hearing from you all.

[Witchywoman]

hiya groovy,
Others have already said a lot of what I'd want to say to you as well, but please know that we need and want you to post no matter how you are feeling. Don't worry about bringing people down. It isn't your job to bring us all up! We all take care of ourselves while supporting and caring for each other. There is always a balance. I've noticed in the year I've been posting that there are always times when some of us are feeling low and some are feeling really great, and we carry each other when we are down. It just always seems to work out that way. So please understand we *need* you to post when you are feeling down, just as much as you need to post. Don't censure yourself ...how else can you really get the support you need?

It was learning to let people know when I was at my weakest most vulnerable point, and letting folks support me, that brought me to where I am today. I'm certainly not perfect...I don't 'have it all together' but I'm pretty happy most of the time and free of opiate dependancy. It took a lot to get there, and part of getting there took learning to show my weak side.

love,
WW

[groovygirl]

thanks ww and everyone....i keep checking my email every 5 seconds to see if the clinic responded yet...what a way to live. i feel like i'm back to chasing perc and vics - pathetic.

it's really hard for me to write when i feel so incredibly negative...it does make me feel better tho when i receive your kind responses.

[tlk]

GG: I was on four amps per day of the bup (I too have a very high tolerance; when I had surgery a few weeks ago they could never get me below a 9, even with repeated morphine shots). I a writer and am writing about the bup controversy now, so have done a lot of research, although I am by no means an expert. My doctor is working with me on it.
The thing about bup is that it's a agonist/antagonist (you probably already know this, so sorry) and so at higher doses it is actually counter-effective, according to the literature. I might be wrong about this, just what I've been told and read. I needed two amps a day to start, then three, then four maxed me out. But I found if I was running low and took even one per day, it was enough to fight the depression. Bup is actually many, many times stronger than morphine as a painkiller, which is why it's such a low dose when injected. I think that the many months I spent on it ruined me for the regular hydro, which when I switched back put me on 150-200 mgs/day and still didn't do much for the pain. After that, morphine shots didn't even help.
Everyone reacts different, of course, but I did find that if I took at least some bup a day, even just one dose, it kept the w/d away completely, and that was after almost a year. I tend to start w/ds really fast, too, within hours often. I hope this helps some. Let me know if you want to talk, and good luck. Waiting around for meds sucks more than almost anything, and begging your pharmacy is just as bad.
tlk

[groovygirl]

funny...i'm a writer too, and i've written about the difficulties an addict faces trying the get treatment in the state of ma.  how did you get the bup (if you don't mind my asking), and how come you aren't on it still?  did it stop working?  i have also found that when taking in large quantities, it has a negative effect.  so, i'm thinking if i use 4 or 5 in a day, feel good, no migraines, etc., why wouldn't they be willing to increase my dose?  that isn't too large an amount for me.

oh well, guess i just have to sit here and wait for an answer...i'm kind of dreading hearing what he has to say, but then again i'm in a very negative mood.

[tlk]

I got the bup from my addictionologist, but I was on it for pain. He wrote the script for the amps and the needles, nothing special, and I got it filled. Then someone, after probably 9 months of this, complained to the DEA that he was prescribing so much of it. It was crazy stupid! So the DEA comes in and talks to him, says he shouldn't really be prescribing it for chronic pain to people with drug dependancy until it was approved for that use, and he voluntarily agreed to stop doing so until it was approved in pill form, which apparently is also when it will be approved for that use. So what does he have to do? Prescribe norco! Of course, at the time I didn't complain because I was only too happy to get back on the Norco; I practically danced out of his office, and I remember one of the guys in the waiting room who I had spoken to asked what had happened. When I told him, you could just see that addict's inner smile -- I had a script for 120 pills with 3 refills. See, I had never abused my bup and I really did have chronic pain, and a very good relationship with my doctor. I was also in deep denial. I think even he felt sure I wouldn't have a problem; I was working in law enforcement (although as a civilian) as the PR person for a major agency, so was on TV a lot; it seemed to convey respectability. But as soon as I got back on the Norco, my drug of choice, it was downhill. Then I had another surgery last month, the pain was gone, things had deteriorated at work (I had quit a few weeks before, at the worst of my using, just walked out and lost insurance for my whole family, and I walked into my doctor's office and said I had to quit. He wanted to taper me, but I said no way, I wanted off, so he let me detox at home with phenobarb and all that stuff. If I could have detoxed with bup, it would have been much, much easier. Now if I could just stop the migraines I might feel human.
Any word yet? Did you also call about your meds and explain the situation? I always had creative excuses, but I hope that's all behind me. I've never before even admitted it, even to myself. tlk

[jennyfla]

Hang in there girl!
I'm tapering myself right now, using methadone and am doing pretty good so far.  But i too fear depression, the depression that goes along whenever a drug is stopped.
I think if you can look at it for what it is, getting off meds completely and try to get yourself into a healthy, drug-free mentally, then you will be able to handle getting through this easier.
You mentioned using it for pain control of migraines.  I'm not really familiar with buph enough to know anything about that.
There are other medications that can be used for migraines that are non-narcotic i believe.
I just hope the right thing happens for you, what is best for your situation!
Try not to get too worked up about only one answer, there are many answers, and it will work out if you have faith!
Lv Jenny

[groovygirl]

hi - i'm not being nosy just curious.  everyone seems to be able to easily obtain meds like methadone, buprenex or whatever to help them recover. i had to fly all the way to fl to get the bup - from ma!!  are you involved with a methadone clinic?  or, do you have a dr. willing to prescribe it?  i wish i had a friend that lived in mexico that could get bup (it's legally sold over-the-counter there)and send it to me. methadone clinics here have a 5-6 month waiting list last time i checked!

[angst]

i know the way it feels waiting to hear from a doctor or nurse.
it is one of the most anxious places to be.  methadone is legal in all but 4 states as a treatment for opiate addiction.  i live in one of the 4 states, but only 25 miles from state line where there is a methadone clinic.  the buprenex is not available here or in alabama.  of course florida is just one more state over.  NIDA is doing studies of buprenex for detox from opiates just as methadone.  I do not believe the FDA has approved it yet.  Let me know if otherwise folks.  Certain anestheologists who are pain specialist use buprenex because it is an antagonist and less likely for addiction.  I do not believe it mixes well with other opiates either.  Check out the ER.  They advised me of the closest methadone clinic, although I already knew.  Maybe someone in NA will know something also.  Sorry I cannot be of more help.  There's always Mexico.

[groovygirl]

nope, still not approved.  as far as methadone - i found one clinic that is is maine, which is a two-hour drive for me each day...they make you come in every day for six months.  then they give you some take-homes.

i just found out that the guy in fl that i need to speak with isn't in until tuesday...aghhhhhhhhhh!

[angst]

how about his partner or the ER?

[groovygirl]

don't think he has a partner, but i left a message to see if SOMEONE could call me back.  i know they are going to give me a hard time.

[tlk]

Groovy, hang in there. If you take the amps. you will feel better but then as soon as they're gone you'll hate yourself. I did that so many time with vics, though oh what the hell, feeling better for one week is worth feeling like **** for two. But it's really not. Every single time I wished I had spaced it out. Clonidine helps for me, when I'm withdrawing from vics if I take the reduced vics with the clonidine I don't feel so bad. I have a bottle, but don't need it anymore. Email me if you need to talk, ***@****.
I hope your migraines get better. I took an Imitrex, worked for me. Does it for you? tlk

[OxyDout]

hey now groovygirl, don't you start losing it on me, your the one who has made me stick this out!!! You can do this, trust me, everything happens for a reason, and you will be fine, I know you will, just tough this one out, and look to your husband for support.

GWH

[confused.grl]

help, fell off the wagon big time need somebody to talk to . i think i am going crazy, feeling depressed and not knowing the point of even going on. Please either post a commeny or e-mail me at ***@****.

[angst]

What's up?  I doubt you are crazy if you found this site.

[jennyfla]

Hey girl,
We have a methadone clinic 45 miles away, but i've been told you have to be practically dead before they will even treat you.
I have a friend who cared enough to give me some to help me detox on my own while my husband is in detox.
I called a dr and asked for help, but they never even called back.  I asked for some methadone to detox off of oxys, but i guess they didn't want to get involved.
So basically i'm doing this completely on my own.
Good luck to you, don't loose hope, you've already come a long way, just keep the faith!
Lv Jenny

[confused.grl]

Thank you for the post about the methadone clinic, but methadone  is my current problem. About three weeks ago i had yet another surgery on my back #5 this past year, well i finally got off the oxy's, yah-hoo feeling great then surgery #5 comes into play. Strange enough i make it throug almost without using too much, totaly refused anything with oxycodone, so the put me on methadone, i used only when the pain was overbearing. Then i go see my doctor on monday to get the staples out and my medical case manager is there (i'm on worker comp), somehow she convinces my doctor to put me back to work for 5 days a week. I cannot even make my own bed or sweep my floor without some kind of pain control, so i started taking the methadone just to get ready to go to work, then i take more to work, then i take more to go home and take care of three small children, then... well you get the picture. I dont even know how i can stop this, i'm in so much pain, but i dont wand to be dependent on anybody never mind any chemical!!!

[OxyDout]

Methadone worked in the past for me, and now I have it again because of my surgery, in anycase, I can almost always get them.............................

[tlk]

You need to shoot your case mgr. Ask if they want to pay for another hospital stay when you have to do inpatient detox! Jeez, that pisses me off.
Call supervisors and keep going up the chain until you reach somebody and tell them exactly what will happen. Don't take no for an answer. Tell them you CAN'T work like that, you must recover, and do they want a lawsuit on their hands. Do you think you can taper down on your own if you're not working? I can relate; I started because of pain and kept up to help me cope with raising three little ones and a very stressful career. But of course it only helped for a short time; after that it was all downhill.
I hope those sadistic idiots listen to you. If you get mean enough, they should. They wouldn't treat an animal like that, and yet here they are killing you. Jeez. tlk

[OxyDout]

you seem distant lately, I just want to make sure your doing ok, please write to me and let me know that all is well. and PLEASE KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!!!

[angst]

That is one thing I like about the orange juice (methadone) clinics.  I have 6 take homes of 90mg each, but I want each one intact for the morning.  I do not stray and take some of tomorrow's dose.  Methadone is not difficult to jump off if you are only on 30 or 40 mg.  If you are on more, you need help getting off.  When we have chronic pain, then introduced to opiates, we often use it to medicate ourselves for the wrong reasons.  Sounds like addictive behavior to me.  Methadone is for getting junkies like me off dilaudid or heroin.  Using it for chronic pain is ancient.  There is less of a tendency to abuse it, I think, like buprenex.  Continue on this forum.  There are some great people who know what they are talking about when they post.

[groovygirl]

i'm still here - went thru my 1st day without bup....today has started ok - i have the sniffles, chills and basic depression and lethargy, but i think i can handle it.  the part of knowing that it is going to get worse kills me tho...

how are you doing? did you say you are taking methadone?

[skipper]

hey people:
sounds like more than a few of us are seeing some unpleasent days. went to the foot doc, only to find out the stitches in my toe are going to be there for at least another week. i didn't misbehave and ask for any more percocet 7.5 though. yesterday was just another bad day all the way around. fight with wife, fight with even the "good people" at work. screaming ******* pain from my neck down each arm....all this after my first bup free night (and oxy too). what can i say? i had about a week and a half of oxy (fifty-five 20mg. tablets and some IR's. i actually gave strong consideration to taking them all and just be done with it. instead i got real disgusted and flushed 'em all instead! i don't know why i do these things. i think underneath the pain and the grind of 35+ years of being a junky i'm just real sick of my ****, the worlds ****, etc.

my wife had put a few oxy's aside, so i did have a physically pain free night...back to the bub under the tounge today! write the whole thing off as a bad day, wipe away the tears and push on. what's my choice anyway? i really don't believe 50 some oxys would kill me. i'ld just be in trouble with a whole bunch of people any way and don't need an overdose (intentional or other
wise) to do that.

well, like i said i sure hope everyone can shake off the pain and
the blues. don't think i'm going to be posting much for awhile...
i just seem to to upset everyone, especially myself. there is a
lot to be said for going to the "quiet" mode....

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[angst]

You always seem so strong by your posts.  Sorry to hear about the bad times.  I used to date suicide, but I surrounded myself, in my room, with positive things.  I have my own religious icons, my art work along with some great artists work, and the pictures of Mother (who is dead) and my kid.  My foster sister is really into Church.  She is not my religion.  But she sends me religious cards.  I often place them where I can find them or see them.  Unconsciously, I hope these things work.  
After my kid found me on the floor when I od'd before, I do not want to put others through that kind of pain again.  I have since had a heart attack and my asthma is worse.  I probably would not make it next time around if I tried to od, intentional or otherwise.  
You have a lot of great advise and understanding.  Keep on posting.  I need your words of experience, strength and hope.  I empathize with the physical pain and the feeling that the whole word is **** sometimes.  But it is what we make it.  I plan to get outside if I can breath and work in my gardens.  It helps.  Sunshine is good for you.  Get a chair and Get some rays.

[skipper]

angst:
about that chair....i would but it's raining here today. i've been
fascinated with your post lately. if i have it correctly you were
an RN? i was thief..specialised in drug store B&E. i used to per-
scribe to the phylosopphy of Jim Fogle (author of "drug store cow-
boy"), there was nothing a blue and a 1/16 couldn't fix! i guess
those days are long gone. what i'm most angry about is i never gave
much thought what i would do if i ever actually needed the opiates
i was shooting myself full of! gues i'll figure that one out...
maybe!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

PS thanks

[angst]

During my days of using, I did not care what would happen if I actually needed something for pain.  I kept shooting my K4's with increasing glee.  It is totally true about addiction being a progressive illness, whether you are using or not.
Every relapse was worse.  The second to last, I took $1200 and $1300 out of a joint account with my exhusband.  I thought it was monopoly money.  I was making $17/hr and getting overtime.  That job was the worst I had during my nursing career.  Dilaudid PCA's in ziplock bags.  Free for squirting a few cc's into another syringe, not that I'd do that, right.  Sorry about the incomplete sentences.
The last relapse I knew was coming.  I kept it to 2mg of dilaudid at a time and 3 or 4 times a day.  I could not afford anymore. K-4's run about $50 or $60 here.  If you can skip the middle man and buy in bulk, they are $20 or so.  I got to the methadone clinic as soon as I had the downpayment.  It has gotten better since then.
I has been over a year since I voluntarily gave up my nursing license.  I could get a doctor, my lawyer, and try to get back into the career.  Politics are really against me.  I know the attorney general here in MS due to my exhusband.  It might work.
But I am just now getting where I think I could be safe working around the drugs.  I am getting stronger and meaner when it comes to drugs.  I have to be.
Thanks for your post.  You are a God send.

[angst]

I used to be what was called a Byronic hero, not bionic.  I read a lot and loved Lord Byron.  He was never remorseful or regretted anything he did.  Those types of men, if they were intelligent enough, attracted me.  I only found one to be exact.
I like all the authors from the romatic era.
I have since grown up a bit, not so idealistic, and learned to be quite remorseful.  I do have few regrets, drugs being the biggest regret of my life.  I wonder if I will ever get to the point where I am off methadone and living a clean life.  I can see a light at the end of the tunnel.
I just cannot get stressed and slip up again.  I cannot use successfully.  I know that!  I get into a mindset where I literally think I deserve a K4.  At least I used to go there.
I am changing my way of thinking.  This forum has helped.
So please keep posting, Skipper.  Keep posting all you out there, I need your words of support.

[oh please already]

hey! hey! hey! GET BACK HERE! you dont make me feel worse-even when your down you give he hope ,youve shown me how to keep fighting the fight,so if u must go ,go just PLEASE DONT

[angst]

Meagain,
Are you okay today? You sound kind of upset or depressed?  Respond if you can.  I am concerned about you.  I miss talking to you.

[oh please already]

im just kinka frantic you know,wired with engery i have no place to put and yet i dont want to do anything so im bouncing off the walls i cant seem to sit still and yet i m not doing anything-can i ask if its not too personal  why are u considered havina personality disorder-sometimes i think that must be me too :)

[angst]

i lived in a war zone from birth to 12 years old.  my dad was bipolar and an addict and alcoholic.  i lived with fight or flight 24 hours a day.  he tried to kill me and my family on a daily basis.  i started having anxiety attacks at 14 and the old family doctor put me on benzo's.
i got pregnant at 23, and went to see a phd in psychology.  she would only keep seeing me if i got off everything.  i did.  i thought i was going crazy for a month, but i made it through.  i had a 9lb and 4 oz  beautiful daughter.
the psychologist diagnosed me with the personality d/o.  she said i fall on the mild side of the spectrum.  i've always held down jobs for long periods of time until i became a heavy addict.
i'm not promiscuous either.
i do have the tendency to medicate myself.  i also self-mutilated since childhood.  that is a biggy for bdp.  the real definition is feelings of power mixed with feelings of deep inadequacy (sic).  that's me.

[angst]

oh yea, rage has a lot to do with the diagnosis.  But i do not have rage anymore at all.  that left me when i od'd.  it was a god thing.

[oh please already]

wow  i am so sorry that u had it so bad,me- my mother just couldnt cope- she use to go to hotels for 5-6 days out of the week because 4 kids wew too much  just send 10 dollors aday for food to us and left  and we were  i thin maybe 11,10 8 and 4  i was 10 but the oldest girl so i got to be mo-  got into a fight with her when i was just 18  left with just the clothes on my back and never went back- found a good man ,married but i was too young,screwed up on him and so on

[Witchywoman]

Kip my friend, I'm sorry to hear you've had such a rough time of it lately.  Please don't ever think that you bring anyone down when you share you pain and your situation. You have a right to reach out and get support, just like you give to others.
What I'm trying to say is we are here for you, always.

The world truly is a better place with you in it.

love,
WW

[Hinkster]

Hey Buddy,
  Theres not too much I can do for you but to just to let you know I'am out here someplace thinking about you. The hinkster is with you and cares about you and there isn't a thing you can do about it. I sure hope things are going okay today-man I wish I
could help you out, for what you do for everyone else on these
forums. Some day something will come along and I will pleasently
surprise you, yes sir you wait.
Tom

[angst]

Feeling any better today?  I hope so.  It is still quiet here.  My daughter is asleep still.  It is another hot and humid day, but I'm getting outside with my albuterol at hand, and i'm working with my flowers.  I have a little house work to do.  And if I do my ex and daughter's laundry, it is quite a chore.  I am still getting outside.  
Tomorrow I go to one of the biggest shipbuilding yards in the country, the USSCole came back to us when she got hit.  They have a pipefitter apprentiship program.  I am strong from nursing.  You have to lift really large people on a regular basis.  It is not all pretty and white.  I'm going to apply.  There is not anything to stop me.  I will work with my asthma.  Being down in one of those big ships does not bother me.  I've walked through  a few when they had open house.  It is not a woman's profession, but I have to make a good living.  I cannot survive on a retail sales job.  
I hope the sun in shining where you are.  It really helps.  Do you have hobbies?  I draw intricate abstract designs.  Things you would see in fabric and some wall paper.

[oh please already]

i am sorry,i was begin selfish and insulting yesterday when i asked you to stay,you know what you need and if its time alone you should take it.I think of you and so many here have it together and panic when i see you waving but i dont mean to put pressure on anyone.  In the last month as i read my posts,i can see myself all over the gammit of emitions,from rock bottom suasidal to happy go lucky to just dumb,like the happy drunk at the bar. I  am having difficulty finding a persona that i will use to face the world,i got use to not begin noticed and now i just dont want to be ingnored.anghts qsked me where i am-still using or what?and to answer that i have to say i dont know-im still putting pills in my mouth but i also am having times i dont-i think that what they call self control-its been so long for me i ve forgotten.i went to more then a few meetings,loved some but got frighten that i was looking so close to so many painful memories.In the last few weeks i screamed,cried ,begged and felt despair that i didnt know was possable,right now i m feeling guilty-so many have real problems how can i call what im feeling despair- i might of been abused-but i wasnt totured,i might of been forgotten but i was never hungry,my mother was an(is) an addict but she did love me the best she could-I feel guilty because so many people had it really bad-i should be more thankful and im not.Im just mad,so angry that if i even think about it i tremble and so the last few days ive been acting well stupid-trying to laugh so i wont and this is where im having real difficlty what do u do when your mad-mad about things you cant change,im suppose to be a mature compassiate adult- i know people did the best they could,i know there suffering there own guilt and i dont want them to hurt more but still im just so mad-i dont care that their sorry,why do i always have to understand and forgive?i know that only i  suffer with this emition,only hurt myself,and have to let go so i can find my own inner peace and yet i cant and so im still taking way more then i should but im finding harder and harder to get numb.Im like a 6yr old i so depritly want you all to like me and be my friend but i seem to forgoten how

[tlk]

Kip - pls don't leave, unless you feel you need to for you. Don't do it for us. We need to hear all voices, down or up, good, bad, and everything in between.
I also have a question. Do any of y'all who are in a relationship with someone who does not use and never has have a problem talking to that person? My husband was all for me getting off the meds, but now doesn't see my need to pursue "recovery" treatment. In a way I understood. When my dad was getting big into AA I hated hearing about it. I thought he was looking for an excuse for his past misdeeds. I was young and not very open minded then.
I got off track here, but wanted to ask what you thought of something I heard in regards to addicts. I think most of us have done things we regret -- really regret. Can we ever forgive ourselves? Is it true that these are things we did, not who we are? Are we all too hard on ourselves?
Being philosophical here but I'm trying to live my life in a different way to be successful in this whole recovery, but admit it's a struggle. I don't want my old life back, but don't really know what my new life is. tlk

[skipper]

hey people:
it's great to be missed...i mean this ghostly presence hasn't been
gone, just a little quiet for a short time. been feeling kind
screwed up lately, probably 'cause i'v been real screwed up em-
motially lately. in my defence many fine people ghost this forum,
so i can't be all bad!

witchywoman:
everyone should know how good it feels for a friend to give them *permissionn* to be off the hook for awhile. you have done this for
me for the beter part of year...thankyou.

Angst:
first of all a question. whatr are k4s? have i missed out on something here?!! the middle of last month my wife and i were in
Gullfport. the humidity was really oppresive for the middle of
march...what it must be like in july! good luck in the shipyards,
and be carefull! ya know it's the coal mines and mills where oxy-
contin fist took hold...that should tell ya all about hurt and
dangerious!!
meagain:
selfish is word people only use on themselves around here...hmm
like i just told witchywoman, it feels good to have a friend give
you permission to be screwed up and lost and tryin' to figure it
out!! hey putting yourself first is a healthy sign around here!!
tlk: more of the same that was said above. i don't plan on not
being around...not for long. 'ya know i should learn how to be
silent a little more often- sometimes it's so hard to be quiet,
even to myself! i have recently been shown that listening is a
emotioally necessary indulgence!

thankyou people and keep the angels on your shoulder
kip

[angst]

K4's are 4mg dilaudid pills.  they are yellow with a k on one side and a 4 on the other.  it comes in 2mg, 4mg, 8mg, 10mg, and as far as i know the inj form can be made in any strength to cc.
Thanks for posting. Glad you sound better.

[skipper]

angst:
nope didn't miss 'em. i perfered the 1/16 grain (4mg) hypo tabs.
drop em in the works, draw up some water, shake...bake. i also
remeber 10mg football shaped hypo tabs too..t think it was the way
dilaudid hp used to come. how i ever survived? i guess were all a
bunch of "one more chances!"
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[skipper]

Tom:
didn't mean to overlook your kind words of encouragement. say have
you switched to metadone? how goes it?

today was the 6th straight day of rain. all the farmers are so hap-
py the're just "potty."  i don't care, it has really fit with the way i have been feeling. it takes the bad days to make the good
days good. it's a new day tomarrow, something good might happen.
keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip

[angst]

I promise the sun will shine one day.  We don't have monsoons (sic) here.  At least not to my knowledge.  I am supposed to hit the shipyard tomorrow.  For a well endowed 36 year old woman, this will be a challenge.
I need to get some paper work together.  Highschool Diploma, College Transcripts, Birth certificate?, and I do not know where to start looking in this big old house on the bayou.
Since Mama died in 1996, I do not keep impecable records, you know?  
We made through the dilaudid days.  I don't want to sound southern, but I ain't going back there with God's help.  This forum, your posts, and the whole helps me more than anything right now.  Thanks so much.

[jennyfla]

Keep that angel close Kip, and hang in there!
I apologize for the emails i've been sending, don't mean to complicate your life with my problems.
I just know you understand, so thanks!!!
I'm hoping that your pain will let up for you and that you can find a balance!
Know that i'm here to talk to whenever you need!
PS, Thank IR for me, she posted a sweet post (as usual) telling me that she's been very busy lately with life!  She's a sweetheart!
Lv Jenny

[skipper]

jenny:
apology is not necessary! will try to respond to you later today!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip