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Does anyone have info on Subutex during pregnancy?
Ok...I know what the manufactuer says about it, I know its a class c, and I know that WD froming it, could cause miscarriage.
Heres my story...A long time ago, like 10 years(i was 16) I used heroin and every other driug under the sun. By 18, I had decided that life was not for me. I got my life in order, went to college, married and had a beautiful daughter. After her delivery i was in a lot of pain, and was put on VICODEN. She turned out top be colic, and I was very alone and stressed. My husband worked a lot and we didnt have family around to help out at all. So I began abusing the vicodens. A year of that, and I had enough,. I went to a counselor and they suggested I get on Suboxone. This was almost 3 yrs ago..yes I have been on it that long. A lot happened in that time, like being prescribed thwe wrong dose, then the pharmacy giving me 3 times what i was supoosed to have...I should ahve sued, but I am too nice.
So here we are 3 yrs later, and I am unexpectedly pregnant. The doctor has switched me over to subutex, and against his adivce, i went from 12 mgs(my normal stable dose for last 6 months) to 8 mgs. I feel terrible..but I think alot of it is the preganncy. I am 6 weeks, ansd have no intention of bringing an addicted baby into this world, always worrying what my stupidness might have caused him or her. I am considering abortion, although that is not what i really want. i would really like to have a healthy baby and be drug free. I havent talked ot my OB yet, but have an appt. very soon.My husband really, really wants another child, but truthfully I would be okay wiht just having my daughter. Sghe si the best thing I have ever done. No one, and I mena no one knows about my dirty little secret(suboxone). My husband knows, but treats it as the big grey elephant in the room that no one will acknowledge. I should also point out that we are not in the best sahpe financially to have another child, and I had planned on returning to school in December to get my Masters, so we could get furth ahead. i am young(26)...I feel like I ahve time to get off this stuff,BEFORE I bring a child into the world. The thing is, i feel terrible, as my daughter is going on 4, and is always asking for a sister. I feel like a terible MOM, aslthough i know I am not. I have always been the best to her.
My concerns are the follwoing,
Will the baby be born dependent on Subutex?
Is there a certain dose that shows less chance of havign a bay with NAS?
Any reported or known birthdefects caused by this drug?
Is it possible to detox durting the 2nd trimester?
What would you do?
Heres my story...A long time ago, like 10 years(i was 16) I used heroin and every other driug under the sun. By 18, I had decided that life was not for me. I got my life in order, went to college, married and had a beautiful daughter. After her delivery i was in a lot of pain, and was put on VICODEN. She turned out top be colic, and I was very alone and stressed. My husband worked a lot and we didnt have family around to help out at all. So I began abusing the vicodens. A year of that, and I had enough,. I went to a counselor and they suggested I get on Suboxone. This was almost 3 yrs ago..yes I have been on it that long. A lot happened in that time, like being prescribed thwe wrong dose, then the pharmacy giving me 3 times what i was supoosed to have...I should ahve sued, but I am too nice.
So here we are 3 yrs later, and I am unexpectedly pregnant. The doctor has switched me over to subutex, and against his adivce, i went from 12 mgs(my normal stable dose for last 6 months) to 8 mgs. I feel terrible..but I think alot of it is the preganncy. I am 6 weeks, ansd have no intention of bringing an addicted baby into this world, always worrying what my stupidness might have caused him or her. I am considering abortion, although that is not what i really want. i would really like to have a healthy baby and be drug free. I havent talked ot my OB yet, but have an appt. very soon.My husband really, really wants another child, but truthfully I would be okay wiht just having my daughter. Sghe si the best thing I have ever done. No one, and I mena no one knows about my dirty little secret(suboxone). My husband knows, but treats it as the big grey elephant in the room that no one will acknowledge. I should also point out that we are not in the best sahpe financially to have another child, and I had planned on returning to school in December to get my Masters, so we could get furth ahead. i am young(26)...I feel like I ahve time to get off this stuff,BEFORE I bring a child into the world. The thing is, i feel terrible, as my daughter is going on 4, and is always asking for a sister. I feel like a terible MOM, aslthough i know I am not. I have always been the best to her.
My concerns are the follwoing,
Will the baby be born dependent on Subutex?
Is there a certain dose that shows less chance of havign a bay with NAS?
Any reported or known birthdefects caused by this drug?
Is it possible to detox durting the 2nd trimester?
What would you do?
I am not sure what it is u want to know? sounds as if ur dr has filled u in on the stats..and there r no drs on this forum...no one can tell u much more as there r no certainties with things like this..perhaps someone who took sub during pregnancy and has given birth will respond..that is a small percentage of the population here/and even their results will not necessarily be ur results..there is no certainties as we r all different
Fact is that anything that enters ur bloodstream is passed to the fetus...dissolving stuff under the tongue actually causes more bio-availabilty than swallowing a pill..much more is absorbed in to the bloodstream subligually than orally...most pills are not absorbed very well swallowed..mose so subligual/under the toungue/as the area is vascularized so it is absorbed SL much faster and much more efficiently than swallowing a pill...anal use of drugs?believe it or not is also done as the anus is highly vascularized llike the membranes under the tongue...next would be snoring which also bypasses the gi tract where most med effects are lost..then shooting it up cos it goes right to the bloodstream/no wait at all
Perhaps look at stats for children of narcotics who swallow their meds like hydro users...u would be at a bit more risk cos of the strength of ur drug and the route u use which is more effective than swallowing a pill..no one here can tell u all will be well...nor can they tell u that all will be wrong..no one can make that decision for u
I apologize for the returning the subs remark to the pharmacist..only i do kinda speak up when people tend to blame rather than take responsibility for their actions..u did tho..u admitted u were an addict..u r taking responsibilty and that is respected...had it been my doc/or narcotic i needed at the time/i woulda done the same thing..i wouldnt have taken them back in either,,,now i would...then i woulda kept em
i hope someone posts who can set ur mind at ease////i was preganat at 16/so i do know how a unplanned pregnacy can change ur life...i recently miscarried after my fiance left me for his x wife/we were gonna marry in January...i am 49/kids r 28 and 32/ with a positive pregnancy test..i flipped..and was glad i lost it//but he was gone..i did it alone in the midst oflosing most of my life in a matter of 72 hours..u will make the right decision..or the decision will be made for u//like it was for me..things have a way of working out
Fact is that anything that enters ur bloodstream is passed to the fetus...dissolving stuff under the tongue actually causes more bio-availabilty than swallowing a pill..much more is absorbed in to the bloodstream subligually than orally...most pills are not absorbed very well swallowed..mose so subligual/under the toungue/as the area is vascularized so it is absorbed SL much faster and much more efficiently than swallowing a pill...anal use of drugs?believe it or not is also done as the anus is highly vascularized llike the membranes under the tongue...next would be snoring which also bypasses the gi tract where most med effects are lost..then shooting it up cos it goes right to the bloodstream/no wait at all
Perhaps look at stats for children of narcotics who swallow their meds like hydro users...u would be at a bit more risk cos of the strength of ur drug and the route u use which is more effective than swallowing a pill..no one here can tell u all will be well...nor can they tell u that all will be wrong..no one can make that decision for u
I apologize for the returning the subs remark to the pharmacist..only i do kinda speak up when people tend to blame rather than take responsibility for their actions..u did tho..u admitted u were an addict..u r taking responsibilty and that is respected...had it been my doc/or narcotic i needed at the time/i woulda done the same thing..i wouldnt have taken them back in either,,,now i would...then i woulda kept em
i hope someone posts who can set ur mind at ease////i was preganat at 16/so i do know how a unplanned pregnacy can change ur life...i recently miscarried after my fiance left me for his x wife/we were gonna marry in January...i am 49/kids r 28 and 32/ with a positive pregnancy test..i flipped..and was glad i lost it//but he was gone..i did it alone in the midst oflosing most of my life in a matter of 72 hours..u will make the right decision..or the decision will be made for u//like it was for me..things have a way of working out
First of all, thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.
Just a few things I wanted to point out...I was not on heroin when I got on sub. I had been off that junk since I was 18. The reason, as my earlier post states, was Vicoden. I did not know how powerful SUB was at the time of induction. I was told by a person in the docs office that did my intake that it wasn't even an oppiate. If yu have an addictions specialist telling you this(and you are in withdrawl as requred when you come in), it prob. wouldnt have even mattered if i knew. All I knew was I wanted relief I wanted to stop chasing the pills, and I wanted the life I worked so hard for back. YES, all of this is no longer relevant at this point. I know this is a beast. I tried getting off it many times, but having a daughter at home I need to take care of, it was damn near impossible, as I lay frozen,unable to move sick...worse then any of the times I went cold turkey from Vicoden...or even heroin for that matter.The plan was never to stay on SUB, believe me. I am young, and do not want to spend my life medicated. Now, for "giving the pills back", hahaha...your funny. I was prescribed 3, 2 mg tablets a day, and was given 3, 8 mg's tablets a day, and yes I knew my dose.Yea, I should have told the pharmacist, but I didnt. The pharmacist should have caught this..He was the proffessinal, not me...And it didnmt just happen once...it happened repeatedly!!!!Like 4 months in a row, and I think the reason for it was that he could bill my ins. for the smaller tabs(as they are more expensive), and give me the larger tabs(cheaper)...He prob. thought I was delighted and he reaped the financial rewards.....I had only been on a year at that point...I was getting down slowly and safely, but after that, I figured what the hell...I am an addict you know.
As for this baby, and if I keep it...Thats my decision, but there are a lot a factors I must consider, besides the obvious. Like, my husband wanting another child...and if I do wind up being on this forever, then there never will be a better time to have a child. My daughter desperately wants a sister(or a brother, but begs for a sister), my husband has said repeatedly he doesant want to wait any longer,and my daughter wll be 4...I do not want children who are 10 years aaprt...I still want to be a decent age when they are off to college. Heres the thing...My Doctor said that he has had 7 babies born to subutex using patients,..He is getting me their numbers. The babies were all fine, no WD's except for 1. That mother had been using 16 mg of suboxone, not subutex as the ins wouldnt pay for the alternative. The baby needed a few days of treatment. The other mothers were on a low dose, between 4-8 mg. The babies exhibited no NAS symtpoms. My Doctor's theory on this, was the following. When we put sub under are tounges it is estimated that 30-35% is absorbed, so yes sub us strong, but we are not getting the "full punch". No one really knows how much the fetus recieves in the womb, and it must vary greatly from one to the next, as some babies are fine, yet others need help.It I know I can not blame anyone for my situation, and I am ok with that, I know I did this, and I am also ok with that,I am not perfect by any means, but I try my best, Thats why I am here, so I can make an informed decision on how I proceed with this.
Now if any information, relevant to this, and my earlier post, then please send it on. It is much appreciated. However, if you do not have anything that relates to SUB and pregnancy/babies, then please go post it in a relvant thread, as I know the justs of sub.
Thank you very much.
Just a few things I wanted to point out...I was not on heroin when I got on sub. I had been off that junk since I was 18. The reason, as my earlier post states, was Vicoden. I did not know how powerful SUB was at the time of induction. I was told by a person in the docs office that did my intake that it wasn't even an oppiate. If yu have an addictions specialist telling you this(and you are in withdrawl as requred when you come in), it prob. wouldnt have even mattered if i knew. All I knew was I wanted relief I wanted to stop chasing the pills, and I wanted the life I worked so hard for back. YES, all of this is no longer relevant at this point. I know this is a beast. I tried getting off it many times, but having a daughter at home I need to take care of, it was damn near impossible, as I lay frozen,unable to move sick...worse then any of the times I went cold turkey from Vicoden...or even heroin for that matter.The plan was never to stay on SUB, believe me. I am young, and do not want to spend my life medicated. Now, for "giving the pills back", hahaha...your funny. I was prescribed 3, 2 mg tablets a day, and was given 3, 8 mg's tablets a day, and yes I knew my dose.Yea, I should have told the pharmacist, but I didnt. The pharmacist should have caught this..He was the proffessinal, not me...And it didnmt just happen once...it happened repeatedly!!!!Like 4 months in a row, and I think the reason for it was that he could bill my ins. for the smaller tabs(as they are more expensive), and give me the larger tabs(cheaper)...He prob. thought I was delighted and he reaped the financial rewards.....I had only been on a year at that point...I was getting down slowly and safely, but after that, I figured what the hell...I am an addict you know.
As for this baby, and if I keep it...Thats my decision, but there are a lot a factors I must consider, besides the obvious. Like, my husband wanting another child...and if I do wind up being on this forever, then there never will be a better time to have a child. My daughter desperately wants a sister(or a brother, but begs for a sister), my husband has said repeatedly he doesant want to wait any longer,and my daughter wll be 4...I do not want children who are 10 years aaprt...I still want to be a decent age when they are off to college. Heres the thing...My Doctor said that he has had 7 babies born to subutex using patients,..He is getting me their numbers. The babies were all fine, no WD's except for 1. That mother had been using 16 mg of suboxone, not subutex as the ins wouldnt pay for the alternative. The baby needed a few days of treatment. The other mothers were on a low dose, between 4-8 mg. The babies exhibited no NAS symtpoms. My Doctor's theory on this, was the following. When we put sub under are tounges it is estimated that 30-35% is absorbed, so yes sub us strong, but we are not getting the "full punch". No one really knows how much the fetus recieves in the womb, and it must vary greatly from one to the next, as some babies are fine, yet others need help.It I know I can not blame anyone for my situation, and I am ok with that, I know I did this, and I am also ok with that,I am not perfect by any means, but I try my best, Thats why I am here, so I can make an informed decision on how I proceed with this.
Now if any information, relevant to this, and my earlier post, then please send it on. It is much appreciated. However, if you do not have anything that relates to SUB and pregnancy/babies, then please go post it in a relvant thread, as I know the justs of sub.
Thank you very much.
I can feel thru ur post that u r an intelligent person..i am a typo queen but doesnt mean i am not intelligent...and u r probably knowledgable of the narcotic u r on/sub/is very powerful...and most likely wds from the sub at this point/3 yrs/would be way worse than wds from vicoden..u seem to have chosen sub long term/possibly to avoid relapse/and that is important if u need it to stay clean/sub is better than chasing pills..in a way..it depends on where u were in ur addiction...sub can become a drug of choice/people just feel it is "OK" cos it is legal...so is methadone////the sub marketing will finally be reduced to a new methadone/not better/just a partial agonist packing tons of power making methadone look like a darvocet
Sub is addicting a horrid wds if u take it too long/but i think u know this/and a dr can help u taper slowly from the sub/thing is that those who cant taper from their doc/r not likely to be able to taper from sub either/unless they do the work/some need sub/methadone/or a maintenence drug for life...and i dont know all of ur history
Even a 2 mg sub dose is packed with significant wds...i do think for the baby's sake/if u plan to keep it/i got the drift that u may not and excuse me if i am wrong/but even a small amount of sub would cause some wd for ur newborn...2 mgs of sub would give me a buzz/i used it when i was out of hydro cos my friend had some/and i was 100 mg hydro user per day/sub was a better buzz for me..so when i quit i avoided it cos i knew i would end up stuck on it...when a hydro/oxy user under 150 mgs a day experiences the sub jolt/they often prefer it to their doc...sub can become a doc..and does for many..so when i quit i knew better than to use sub to curb wds
but u were in a different ballgame as u were on heroin..ur brain was accustomed to strong drugs..if u r doing well on sub and happy/but working ur program and doing ur aftercare/trying to move forward/then u r doing all u can/sub can not make u clean/only u can
any person who can read package inserts/or have the ability to talk to their pharmacist/or have access to the internet to google drugs and learn...should keep themselves informed of any drug they take..if u did not know what u were getting into/then next time use resources available to u/u have to sign each time u refill a drug that u understand the drug..if u do not the pharmacist is the best person to ask and most are more than willing to help u understand...ur pharmacy gave u 3 x what u shoulda had? u shoulda reported them immediately...fact is by this time u might should have learned ur dose..knew the implications...and possibly returned the extra pills he accidently gave u...if he gave u too many and u paid ur normal price/may have been best to return them rather than feel stuck with 3 x the amount of pills u shoulda had
as far as ur baby is concerned...that is ur decision...i think u r well aware that if u continue any narcotic throughout ur pregnancy that ur baby is at risk for being born addicted..u feed ur baby ur intake everday thru ur umbilical connection..what u take/the baby is taking/it is up to u to decide whether u want to do this...this is not all about ur hubby..it is also about u...and ur unborn baby
Sub is addicting a horrid wds if u take it too long/but i think u know this/and a dr can help u taper slowly from the sub/thing is that those who cant taper from their doc/r not likely to be able to taper from sub either/unless they do the work/some need sub/methadone/or a maintenence drug for life...and i dont know all of ur history
Even a 2 mg sub dose is packed with significant wds...i do think for the baby's sake/if u plan to keep it/i got the drift that u may not and excuse me if i am wrong/but even a small amount of sub would cause some wd for ur newborn...2 mgs of sub would give me a buzz/i used it when i was out of hydro cos my friend had some/and i was 100 mg hydro user per day/sub was a better buzz for me..so when i quit i avoided it cos i knew i would end up stuck on it...when a hydro/oxy user under 150 mgs a day experiences the sub jolt/they often prefer it to their doc...sub can become a doc..and does for many..so when i quit i knew better than to use sub to curb wds
but u were in a different ballgame as u were on heroin..ur brain was accustomed to strong drugs..if u r doing well on sub and happy/but working ur program and doing ur aftercare/trying to move forward/then u r doing all u can/sub can not make u clean/only u can
any person who can read package inserts/or have the ability to talk to their pharmacist/or have access to the internet to google drugs and learn...should keep themselves informed of any drug they take..if u did not know what u were getting into/then next time use resources available to u/u have to sign each time u refill a drug that u understand the drug..if u do not the pharmacist is the best person to ask and most are more than willing to help u understand...ur pharmacy gave u 3 x what u shoulda had? u shoulda reported them immediately...fact is by this time u might should have learned ur dose..knew the implications...and possibly returned the extra pills he accidently gave u...if he gave u too many and u paid ur normal price/may have been best to return them rather than feel stuck with 3 x the amount of pills u shoulda had
as far as ur baby is concerned...that is ur decision...i think u r well aware that if u continue any narcotic throughout ur pregnancy that ur baby is at risk for being born addicted..u feed ur baby ur intake everday thru ur umbilical connection..what u take/the baby is taking/it is up to u to decide whether u want to do this...this is not all about ur hubby..it is also about u...and ur unborn baby
sorry for all the typos..Its been a rough week, and I am not patient enough to proof read.
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