Does anyone have successful back pain strategies? (narcotics free, of course)

[Rex1]

Does anyone have a routine/method/strategy that they use to alleviate back pain? Low and midback mostly.

Also, what about over the counter stuff like wraps and rubs. I am open to anything short of pills ;-).

Rex

[theGolden1]

Try to flush out the toxins with more water. Also a little cranberry juice helps kidney function. I don't know if you are against plain "tylenol" but it really helps. Get comfortable and use your heating pad! (don't tell me you don't have one) When a person gets clean and sober, they usually start doing alot of physical work ..... and hey, you can strain your back too ... your not superman. I also find that if you are feeling tense (like around the holidays)your back can tighten up ... also your neck and shoulders. Take your mind off of everything. Watch something on tv for a half hour with the heating pad on .... and you'll be just like new ... I promise. Oh ... one more thing (and this will sound crazy) try a back scratcher! Yup ... nerves up and down the backbone are stimulated by back scratching ... feel better soon ...... Goldie

[MethMan]

Rex,
That is what got me where I am now.  Back pain.  Actually, it was a broken L4 and L5 lumbar problem caused when I fell 40 feet onto a cement floor basement during a trouble call in the middle of the night.  Since no one was there, I had to drag myself up two flights of stairs using my arms, across the yard to the guard shack to get someone to call an ambulance.  The spinal cord was affected and I couldn't feel my legs for nearly 8 months.  I was in traction for most of that time and was told I couldn't expect to walk right again.  I ended up in physical therapy for years.  From the swimming pool movement exercises to you name it.
How did I get back on my feet and stop the back pain?  Well, first, I am too bull-headed for my own good.  I refused to give up without a fight.  I began by doing small attempts at steps using bars you hang onto with a PT supervising.  Once I got some of the numbness away, I began strengthening the back muscles through weight training.  For pain, (other than the narcotics at the time), I was using something called a TENS unit.  It basically is a small box that provides electrical current to two (or four) electrodes placed in the area affected.  It's intended use is to short circuit the electrical impluses that cause pain.  For me, it helped quite a bit.  Drive and determination was what I used to get back on my feet.
I won't be entering the New York Marathon, but I can damn sure keep up with my 10 year old in a race (for the first 100 feet.  Then youth takes over.)
Peace,
Mike

[teeitup]

I have a bag thats filled with some form of bean or rice. You put it in the microwave and it stays warm for quite awhile. It's about 6" wide and 18" long, whats good is it kind of molds to the place you put it. It's called a BED BUDDY, my wife got it at a place called Cracker Barrel its a restraunt chain that also has gift shops. Walgreens has a version but they are not as good!

[Thomas02]

Don't know how you feel about taking advice from me these days, but after 2 back surgeries in the mid-90's for bulging disks (laminectomy/discectomies), and after trying TENS units, bogus "pysical therapy sessions," steroid injections, and every worthless anti-inflam in the book, I learned that if I made a point of walking every single day on a cicuit with no hills (or dales), say, two miles or more in length, and I did it at a crisp but not forced pace -- in other words, a relaxed pace instead of a pushed "fast walk" pace -- my lumbar pain (which was considerable) gradually went away. That was 94 - 96. To this day, if I don't get enough flat-surface walking in, my lumbar pain slowly returnes. I discovered that the worst thing I could do was lay around, regardless of hot pads, braces, etc. Just good ole fashioned walks every morning and, if possible, during lunch or after dinner. Wear your WalkMan, get into some good tunes while you're at it. Great therapy for body and mind that way. Try it even if all you can manage is one circuit around the block on which you live. And, hey, it's free! Sometimes the most elementary measures are the most effective. Good luck.

Thomas

Thomas

[Rex1]

Thomas,

Sorry, but I am not sure what you are referring to about "these days". I consider you one of the veterans around here, and you tend to stay more "on subject" than the rest of us. (Based on Cindy's comment, I'll work on that). Also, are you not the "Thomas" in Thomas's recipe? That recipe allowed me to get clean, as well as what, 100 others here or more?

(If you think I am some way mad or don't value you're advice, you must have gotten the wrong impression from something I wrote (I do that to a lot of people), or perhaps you confused me with someone else. I owe my life to you, Methman, Hippee, 1day, Golden1, SouthernBelle, Chezz, Bmac, I know I am forgetitng some folks here, but if I haven't said so - thanks from the heart, man.)

Thanks for the advice on walking - I guess I hadn't thought of something that:

Isn't high tech
Doesn't cost money ;-)

I'll give it a try, along with all the other advice here. Summary:

Heating pad
Tens unit
Microwaveable bean bags
Take your mind off of it
Walking
I'll add prayer, which I am already doing

Thanks guys!

Rex

[hippy]

hey , i hope your pain is getting better.
i had severe back pain in the mid ninties.
i used a ten's unit with some results.
i have the bean bag that goes in the microwave
that is great for neck pain.
i also use the large dark blue ice pack.
walking as suggested has been very helpful it seems
to get the body juces flowing in a positive direction.
also as i have mentioned strching has given me  the best results.
i find that driving  for an hour causes a lot of pain,
they sell a back support with a little pad that attaches
at the bottom of the ( bottom of the  a chair ) support.
some days  just trying anyone of these makes me feel better
because i am doing something.
i find that false optimism is better then no optimism.
pain has played trickes on me over the years, so i find
some days i try to play tricks on it.
some people do better then others with pain. i have always been a wimp ,when it comes to pain.
thomas's receipe has helped me with pain more then i can say.
i still take it after 8 months off the pills. i have lighten up
the L tyrosine.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bodymechanic]

There are 3 major causes of back pain, organic, mechancical and psycosomatic.  In order to properly treat this condition the cause must be assertained. The two most common causes of back pain are by far mechanical and psycosomatic.  All three are often present in one form or another.  

Organic problems are always something that need to be considered with back pain since any one of the internal organs can refer pain to the back.  This is usually done with lab testing, MRI and ultrasound studies ect.  It is more common in the elderly population. Included in this catagory are the neuropathies, fractures and inflamatory arthridities. These types of problems are best handled by an internists, orthopedists and neurologists.

Mechanical problems are the most common cause and can include, degenerative disorders, muscle spasm, post traumatic adheasions, muscle imbalances and joint disfunction. These types of problems are best handled by  skilled and competent chiropractors, physical therapists or massage therapists.

Psycosomatic problems as you probably know are the most difficult to deal with. The causes are multifactoral and very difficult to definatively establish.

Since it is not my intention to write a book I will leave a partial list of things that are useless or almost useless especially in the long run; Tens units and muscle stimulation units, ultrasound, microcurrent, most braces, most vitamins and supplements, most types of traction, improper exercises, expensive pillows and bedding, most orthopedist(except for organic causes)

The most helpful things include active release technique(by far the best for mechanical causes), proper manipulation, patient specific exercises and increased aerobic capacity.  

Peace

[Rex1]

I was hoping you would provide an answer, but I didn't want you to work on Saturday.;-)

Thanks. And a very special thanks for all of your help over the last 4 weeks. I couldn't have done it without you..


Rex

[Thomas02]

Rex1,

I was referring to my recent statement of conscience to mariposa -- you know, the post I was so roundly vilified for making? I had been witnessing her treatment of suffering, confused and desperate addicts for about three months and said nothing. It wasn't long before I noticed that many of the subjects of her withering judgment and ridicule abruptly stopped coming to the forum for help. I knew that what she was doing was profoundly wrong and potentially devastating to people at the very moment they were most vulnerable.

Believe me, in my three years on this and other addiction support forums, I've never rebuked a poster before or since, but a voice inside of me told me that I must speak out about this case. Then came her own WD crisis and plea for help. Rightly or wrongly, the hypocrisy of that act incensed me more than I can say, causing the words of my post to pour forth, virtually writing themselves. I was only conscious of the desire that she understand through direct experience the effect her posts had had on so many of our fellow suffering addicts. My remarks were never meant to question mariposa's worthiness as a human being. When you see someone driving the wrong way down the road, you don’t worry about hurting their feelings by letting them know that what they’re doing is dead wrong.

As I was writing this “infamous” post to Mariposa, I was reminded of a teaching from the Sermon on the Mount:

“Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.”

I can think of no better guiding philosophy for those of us on this forum that seek to respond and hopefully offer help to our fellow addicts in need. Alas, Mariposa’s words were all to often the moral equivalent of a mirror image of Christ’s simple, luminous words.

Without consciously wanting to be, I felt compelled to become an admittedly flawed and all-to-human messenger of retribution with the sole mission of making mariposa truly aware of what she was doing to the rest of us on the forum.

Some forum readers, including Med Help Cindy, singled me out for harsh appraisal because I chose to post to mariposa when she was in the middle of her own withdrawal. To be frank, the idea of posting at all never entered my mind UNTIL she was in withdrawal. I knew that my message would reach her just as she was experiencing the same suffering as so many addicts that had come to her for help and instead received her cold, soul-crushing judgments.

If anything, I hope this post helps you understand that my post to mariposa was not born out of anger or vindictiveness, but rather out of my conviction that a continuing wrong that threatened the forum must be made right. For what it’s worth, I expected to be banned from Med Help for my original post. However, I owe this forum a great debt, a debt that could only partially be repaid at the cost of excommunication. This made my decision to post to mariposa as I did an easy one.

Of course, Rex1, I cannot end this post without a quote that I feel captures your role in trying to calm the post-mariposa waters:

“Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.”

Peace, Rex1.

Thomas

[Thomas02]

O, forgot to answer your question, Rex1. Yes, I am THAT Thomas of the recipe. But I must say that the recipe is the product of many years of addiction, withdrawal, self-experimentation and invaluable input from many, many other addicts. I dare not think of how much suffering went into the development of the recipe. It has always been my intention in publishing the recipe to help my fellow addicts avoid some of the terrible experiences I've had in my 30-year career as an opiate addict. Thankfully, it seems to really help most people. For that, I am humble, thankful and only then proud that I was able to contribute something that at least partially redeems all the years I've wasted as a drug addict. Thanks for asking.

Thomas

[suzieneedshelp]

I do not know specifically who else she hurt.  But  i know if i was not on th4e other board i would have not ever paid attn to wut was recently going on in here.  I left here cuz of her abuse.  And i know many others also did and never to return.  That is so sad and I am grateful to Thomas for every word he has said.  Believe me it is not in his character to trash a person .. he is a kind man.  
Thx,
Suzie

[Thomas02]

Thanks, Suzi, your dollar is in the mail LOL.

Thomas

[Rex1]

I understand...

Thanks for the info.

I am truly excited that we have people here getting sober and new people arriving everyday asking for help.

My attitude was never this person did this, and that perosn did that, it was more of a "lets forgive and forget".

Man, I hurt all over today... Going to go to sleep now, so I will be rested when I get up at my usual - 4:30 am.

The 20 year old version of me would be laughing his head off at me right now.

Rex

[Rex1]

Haven't heard from you in awhile -- where have you been?

Rex

[lisabet]

Hey Rex - sorry you're hurting today.  You're in my thoughts and prayers.  (And tell me - why would "anyone" get up at 4:30 am in the morning?????)....just wondering.  (smile)  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[Rex1]

I wish I knew myself.

Ever since detox, that's when I'm up - day off or not...

Rex

[Bodymechanic]

Thomas

I gotta say that I always enjoyed your posts, even when I thought you were being a jerk to Mariposa.  They are always filled with great information combined with light hearted humor. Concerning  Mariposa, maybe I might have felt differently had I seen any of her old posts.  Interestingly enough I was reading and posting when she was going through her "bad" period. My time is limited and I usually post while I'm not busy at work. I have a way of filtering out bullshit posts. Maybe that is why I did not see any of the hurtful words.  The truth is, I have only seen the repentant Mariposa2 and I like her. She is my friend.  I don't think I would have liked Groovegirl or Mariposa. At this point I think that she should be forgiven and allowed to carry on unmolested.

Everyone

If anyone has a specific question about joint pain, post it here and I will do my best to answer it.  Believe it or not I have another area of expertise besides being an addict.

[bmac]

Mariposa has been forgiven. Nobody wished her any harm. This is what the whole thing was about. She was very rude and hard on people when they got down and she flamed them if they disagreed with one single word she said. She called people weak for whinning about hurting and relapse was a cause for being belittled. When she came back with her poor baby me I am withdrawing and need help act,it just showed us, the ones that felt her flamming that she was now being that weak whinning belittled addict that deserved a taste of her own medicine.
You did miss a whole lot of the problem. Most of it was during the Groovygirl era.
But she is forgiven for flaming me anyway.She even posted the email I sent her so that is the end of the groovygirlmariposa and mariposa2 era here. I for one am glad she is gone,if she really is that is!!!
Thomas's words where very true and couldn't have been said any more eloquently. You just had to be there through the whole ordeal.
Now the forum can do what it's suppose to do, help not hurt.
Peace to ya and good luck to everyone here.
                 bmac

[mrmichael67]

I do know that Bodymechanic was not around during much of the groovygirl era.  He just doesn't know what the real full story is.  Well, he has heard it.  It is up to him what he wants to believe.  Thomas' post to her was a necessity.....for those of us who have been through it all.  It would be nice for any animosity to end.  It would also be nice if those that weren't here for it all would not comment on what they know nothing of.  It is rather disrespectful.  Honestly, how can someone comment on something they really know nothing about?  They weren't here.  I also know that a hand was overextended to her many times, from the recipient of unjust abuse from her.  That comment about commenting on what you know nothing about can be directed elsewhere.  That person should know what I mean.

[Bodymechanic]

Not meaning to be "disrepectful"(please give us all a break  from the draumatic bullshit) I was here during the Groovygirl, Mariposa1 insident. Just because I choose to not be part of the negativity does not mean that I do not have knowledge of what went on.  I have also been here long enough remember how much you both use to post.  Now the only time you show up is to join a Mariposa bashing.  This is a whole new crew here. What is the point unless you feel that you need to continue to punish her for whatever sick reason.

I don't want to get carried away here. My pen can be very sharp and cutting if I choose to use it that way.  So here is my last word on this subject. The very essence of the board is starting again after having made many bad judgments concerning one's own life.  If those who were "offended" are not willing to forgive and forget her past mistakes, then what is the point of the board.

We have all made mistakes.  Let's begin again.

[saveyourself]

A little off the topic. Please forgive. Just read your are the Thomas of the recipe.  I have sent a couple posts in the last week mentioning the recipe.  I followed the recipe the last week and avoided what shouild have been the most violent withdrawls of my life. I had been taking 300 to 400 mgs of oxy and 12 perc 10s a day to just be normal feeling for the last year.  I stopped cold turkey, got all the ingrediants from my Doc and health food store. I am on day 8, not feeling great, but this has been the least painful withdrawl period I have ever had.  Like so many of us, I have cold turkeyed and suffered horribly so many times.  This board is a huge help.

Please read a couple of the posts I have sent in the last couple days.  I own my own company and have meant to stop 10 times in the last four months because it is a scary place when you see everything you value screwing up, yet my drugged up mind would tell me don't worry, pop a couple pills, then i will figure it out.  Well, stopping is the only thing I want, thanks for saving me a lot of pain.

Greg

[Thomas02]

I'm glad the recipe worked for you. Oxy WD is a ***** and a half. You're a brave one to get through it regardless of what you used for detox. Take care.

Thomas

[Rex1]

Congratulations on proviing a recipe that has helped so many, myself included!

Got anything that gets rids of traffic and work stress. (Don't say "handgun")

I O U

Rex

[Rex1]

Golden,

Thx for the suggestions, I do need to drink more water. Also the cran juice is a good one too.


Methman - a 40 foot fall, on cement!!!?? WOW!

>>Might not run a marathon.

I assume your spring board diving career is over.;-)

Glad you are better. Back and body aches sill kikcing my butt today. Need a new drug - vicodin like peformance - aspirin like addiction.

Rex

[Nod]

Not sure if you injured your back or how the pain came about.  About 13 years ago, my back went so bad I was basically crippled. Thru lots docs,tests, etc they finally diagnosed me the a form of arthritis called ankylosing spondylitis.  Its an auto-immune disease that can effect everything but mainly your back, hips and shoulder.  Mine are trying to freeze together into one solid bone.  I've been putting up one hell of a fight and been winning the war.

Anyway, if your back bothers you for unknown reasons and Xray don't show problems, you may want to talk to a rhuematologist.

I may be way off here, just throwing in my 2 cents. Hate to see someone suffer the pain when there are meds that can help a good bit.  Take care - Nod

[WifeofAddict]

Hey Thomas,
Ok this is going to sound annoying.  But....can i have the famous recipe?  I know it must be posted on the board somewhere...but my comp is soooo slow and i can't find it.  So better yet...can you just tell me what post it is under and i will find it?  Thanks a bunch!  

Well i don't come on that often...but when i do...it seems there is alot of passive bickering going on.  I just want to say...that you should all ignore the negative comments...because if you do...that person will get bored and go away.  Also, did you not come here in the first place to get help?  How is responding to these negative comments helping you?  Can you not ignore them and read only what is important and valuable to you.  

I am amazed at the knowledge you all have on every topic that has been brought up.  This is a very valuable tool...if used properly.  If it wasn't for this place...i might be separated by now.  I understand addiction to a point....and you all have helped me understand it much more than you know.  

Oh and one last point.  I haven't been here in about 5 days....today i came on and read the last three posts....and they are mostly comments on either Cindy's post or Mariposa.  How are those comments going to help someone who comes here for the first time that needs help?  All they will see is bickering and complaining?  That will just make them leave and look elsewhere i would think.  Anyways, don't think i am being rude either...it is just that what i have seen isn't what this forum is here for and from reading past posts....i know you all have sooooooooooo much to offer.  

Anyways, i know i am not a regular here...but i think you all need each other and people like me need you....so keep raising spirits!
CAT

[WifeofAddict]

I LOVE AND VALUED YOUR QUESTION!  That is what my husband is experiencing (back problems) and because we have been going through this withdrawal from pills thing...we haven't been tending to the real issue.....THE PAIN!  Well i have been rubbing A535 on it....and massaging it....but nothing like what has been suggested.  Thanks again for the reminder.
Thanks to everyone who responded as well.  
CAT

[Thomas02]

Of course I will give you the recipe. May it help your husband and by extension help you. It includes instructions on how and when to use each component, but many still have questions. If you do, write me at:

***@****

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.

[Rex1]

Hoep your doing good today, pal.

I need a favor from you. If you have any specific suggestions on how to pick a good chiropractor, please either post it here or send to:

***@****

If you are in the San Diego area, then I will use you. If not, I need to know how to weed out the truly good chiropractors that I know are out there from the quacks.

Rex

[mrmichael67]

I wasn't talking about one incident.  No bullshit at all.  You haven't been here all THAT long to know a good fraction about her.  We can all get along here, and many have tried.  But some keep crying foul and it makes me absolutely sick to hear it from someone who really doesn't know what they are talking about.

[mrmichael67]

Sorry for not gathering my thoughts, but you don't know how many people thought those words from Thomas were long overdue.  It has been a lot and I do know that for a fact.  As far as the person behind Mariposa is concerned, you have known her for a very small part of the total amount of time she's been here.  There is no arguing that fact.  You made your point and you should move on with things here.  I do know others are sick of all of this.  I come back here about a couple of times a week and there is always something going on.  I go back here and I am being talked about and I hadn't even posted.  I also wasn't flaming anyone in my other post on this thread.  Let's move on here.  Can that happen?

[hippy]

mr michael is correct.

[WifeofAddict]

Hey Thomas!
Thanks so much!  I didn't even have to go through past posts to find it!  You are a gem!

Hey Rex!
I have been to a few chiropractors in my short life.  Been hit by 4 cars.  Fortunatley for me...i haven't come across a bad one.  But i have come across a better one.  My current chiropractor brought me in the first day....had me fill out forms on my whole health...not just my back.  Because your Spine affects every part of your body...
Then he talked to me about my back and how chiropractic works....then sent me for FREE x-rays.  Next visit...he still didn't touch my back...he examined my x-rays with me in the room.  He actually had me examine them first.  So now i know what to look for.  Then he scheduled me for a visit to CRACK!
He sees me three times a week right now.  Because my back is severly out of shape.  Next week is my first week to see him only twice...then 2 months from now i will be seeing him once a week until i get better to be seeing him once a month.  He said it should take a year before i reach that stage.  He will then do more x-rays and see how i have progressed.  He also has classes every Wednesday for free on HEALTH...not just spines and back...but Health.  He also gave me stretches to do at home to ensure i am optimizing my chiropractic care.  
When they do crack you....they should warn you about what they are about to do....tell you to relax....and with some force...but at the same time gently crack that area.  I am lucky...i have a really great chiropractor...and he has helped me tremendously...with not just my back pain...but my headaches and my IBS.
Anyways, i know you didn't ask me this question...but i just thought i would give my input.  
Hope it helps a bit
CAT
My husband is also going to a chiropractor...although not the same one as me....his doctor referred him to another one...and so he has to go to the one his doctor chose....LONG STORY.

[Bodymechanic]

You know I am wrote that posts remembering that I like and respect both you guys.  I violated my own rule about never getting involved in a controversial post involving personalities. I am considering this a learning experience for everyone involved including myself.

You are correct.  Lets move on. There are too many more important things to do.


Peace

[bmac]

You are right,it's all over with. She is gone anyway so what's the point in keeping it going. But people are still commenting about it and they are new people. I just wish for the ones that have no idea what they are talking about would just stay out of it. This weekend I read several posts about why there are people here that are angry,ever heard of addiction. It can make one a little cranky sometimes. I come here for help, I don't need BS.
Thanks Bodymechanic for putting this to bed. MrMichael said his peace and I have said mine and you have said yours, for the rest that still feel the need to comment on things you know nothing about 'butt out'!! The Groovygirl era is over,move on!!!!!!!
                   Thanks Bodymechanic!
                   Thanks MrMichael!
                       bmac

[Bodymechanic]

I saw a few post about chiropractor and physical therapists.  I have been a chiropactor for 15yrs so I know a little bit about it.  You would all do well to consider my advice when considering being treated by one.

First of all and I hate to do this, but if you want a profile of the type of chiropractor I suggest you avoid, read the post by WifeofAddict(my apologies).  

Here are some indications that you probably are not getting the best care

1) Those that offer free x-rays(free anything)
2) Those that offer and demand ongoing health care classes
3) Those who offer no treatment on the first visit but need     to wait in order to "analalize" your case.
4) Those that try to convince you that chiropractic adjustments will cure or prevent medical problems.
5) Those that sell vitamins and supplements or anything other than a brace
6) Those that tell you that you need lifelong care.
7) Those that extend care for more than 8 weeks without a very good clinical reason.  A subluxation is not a good clincal reason.
8) Those that offer excuses as to why you are not getting better
9) Those that refuse to refer you to an orthopedist or a medical doctor when you fail to show improvement.
10) Those that insist that you need maintainance care to prevent pain or preserve health.
11) Those that want you to enter into a contract
12) Those that offer monthly family plans

Here are some indication that you are probably getting good care.

1) Those that don't give free anything
2) Those that are willing to treat you on the first visit.
3) Those that tell you that your care is finished when you say you are better.
4) Those that give you a time line on when the expect you to be better

The important thing is that if you have a good chiropractor or physical therapist you will begin to improve almost immediately.  The average treatment length with a good chiropractor is about 6-12 sessions. In many case only 2-3 treatments are required. Most case DO NOT require x-rays, CAT scans, MRIs or other special tests.  A short list of bogus tests are surface EMGs, computerized posture tests, computerized muscle tests, computerize anything, neurocollometers, spinal ultrasound, many others. They are expensive and do not give useful diagnostic information

This is an evolving profession and right now the best trained and most skilled chiropractors and physical therapists (even massage therapists) are certified in what is called Active Release Technique.  Here is their web site and referal service

http://www.activerelease.net/locator/index.cfm


Don't run out and fire your own chiropactor if you are happy with him/her and you are getting better.  Rex emailed me and asked how to find a good chiropractor. This is my answer.

Bodymechanic BS,DC,PT
(drug addict)

[TAD42]

Hi everyone I have been lurking for a while. I have had a bad back for a while. I have been taking vic/hp for 2 years. I only take 2 a day the most I have ever took is 3 a day. I want to stop. I have tapered down sometimes to 1/2 vic hp but the pain all ways comes back or the depression out wayed the quiting. With Christmas coming up I keep using the excuse I have so much to do and it will help me get things done. I guess I fear the W/D that I read about. I know my little habbit is not as bad as some but I feel like I still depend on these little devils to get me through the day. My question is do I still need the Thomas recipe or do you think I could just taper? Another question is moderation my mother has taken vicoden as long as 7 years she has Sclerderma she takes 3 a day. Can people take pain pills in moderation and not abuse them? Thank You all. I think if people that take pain pills came here first knew what they were getting into they wouldnt take that first pill. I wish All A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year with Peace and Love TAD42

[WifeofAddict]

Hey,
Well i would just like to say thanks for all the info i have obtained here.  I must say though, this forum can be very negative and some people don't feel others should have an opinion--which is scary.  Anyways, for those that are genuinley concerned and are here for help and to help...keep it up.  For those that are here to pass the time...and give critisism---hope it is working for you.  Once again it looks like you have lost someone to the negative remarks.  Hope you don't succeed to do it again in the future.  
I know my advice on Chiropractic is good.  I know how great i feel...but ignore it if you must.  What do i know....i am new here remember?
hahahahahaha
CAT

[Bodymechanic]

I do my best to provide information that is factual. Either backed up by research or are positions of other organizations that are considered to be experts in the field. If you read the vast majority of my posts they are factual in nature.  If you disagree with the facts then you are free to post other facts to the contrary. As far as the information I provided on chiropractors, it was taken from the general recommendations of the North American Spine Association and the American Chiropractic Association.  If you happen to submit a claim to an insurance company for a third party payment, your claim will be reviewed and reimbursed using these same standard.

I guess it is all a matter of prospective.  You can find any post to be positive or negative.  It all depends on how you look at it. I do not deny anyone their opinion but an opinion is very different than a fact.

Peace

[Pinkit]

I don't know if I understood you wrong, but did you say you're leaving because someone said negative things to you.  I'm sorry you feel that way.  You need to realize that everyone has opinions here.  This is how we get through our day. If someone wants to complain so let it be. That's there decision. If you don't like someones opinion then fine. Just read on. You don't have to agree with it.  just ignore it.  That's what helped me.  On any case It seems like you are upset for what Bodymech said. Let me tell you Bodymech is very very experienced with addiction so he knows what he's talking about. You can tell by his posts all the research he puts into this forum. He has helped me immensly with my addiction.
Are you upset because Bodymech gave his opinion to Rex about chiropractors and you did'nt agree?  Let me tell you this it does sound like you may not be getting the best care in my opinion. Why would anyone do an X ray and say Oh, you don't have to pay for it, even though it costs them money. A chiropractor tells you to look over your x rays first.  Sounds kinda fishie to me too.  
Just remember everyone has opinions in life even the non addicts do. I hope you're not leaving the forum because of opinions.  It's a fact of life.  Good luck

[Bodymechanic]

Yes, there are people who can take pain medication and not abuse it(I hate those people). These represent the vast majority of the population.  We are the exceptions.  From what I am reading in your post you do not sound like a drug abuser. Still, you  may have a drug habit.

At your dose I tend to think that you are more afraid of the withdrawals then they warrant. Do you have a plan on how you will manage your pain without narcotics?  

Use the Thomas recipe, much of it is good health maintainace practice regardless of a detox.

[vikequeen]

My Mother in law has scleroderma also but she does not need to take pain meds. Badd

[MrsRat]

I'm curious.  Are you a Palmer grad?

[Bodymechanic]

I graduated from Western States in Portland Oregon. I'm glad that you brought that up.  I forgot to put it on the list.  One more indication that you probably do not have the best chiropractor is that they insist that their school is the best. That a patient should only see a chiropractor if they graduated from "their" school.  Palmer graduates are famous for this. Interestingly enough, they are one of the worst practioneers (IMHO) since their pride leads them to believe that they don't need post graduate work.   The good chiropractor knows that a practioneer is only as good as what they have learned and the coarses they have taken following graduation.

Did someone from Palmer tell you that?  They should be embarassed.

[MrsRat]

Actually no.  I lived in the Quad-Cities for about 10 years in the mid 70's to mid 80's.  I knew quite a few of the Palmer grads and one of the teachers there.  They always were very honest with me and took great care of me.  They did the same routine you said you do with your patients.  If this has changed in recent years I wouldn't know.  I moved to Ft. Lauderdale in 1984 and said goodbye to the snow forever.

I don't remember the name of the school my Chiro went to that I saw when I was in Florida.  He was great also.  I went to him when I was pregnant and his wife and I were due at the same time.  We made a contest of it. He won, ONLY because she had a C-section and they scheduled the date before I had my son.  I always teased him that they cheated.

I've lived in L.A. and Phoenix since then.  I haven't been to see a Chiro in those cities.  Finances won't allow it.  After 3 headon car wrecks in my life, you would love my X-rays. They are quite a site to behold.  I've seen them and just love that zigzag effect my spine has. LOL.

Thanks for getting back to me :)

[Betenoire]

I've been reading the forum and found everyone's comments very interesting.  My girlfriend has had back problems for almost two years after an injury at work.  She was diagnosed with a bulging disk.  She was given Vicodin for the pain initially and after going through PT that was unsuccessful...was referred to a pain management doctor.  This pain management doctor has done nothing to fix the problem, he has just medicated her.  They did ESI injections, but that had no lasting effect.  He has for a year prescribed her Vicodin(generic Hydrocodone actually) Viox (sp?) and Zanaflex.  She's taking around a minimum of 6, 10mg Hydrocodones every day and 1 Viox and usually 1-2 Zanaflex at bedtime.  He would have continued to prescribe her medication and done nothing if I hadn't pressed her to talk to him about doing something to fix the problem.  He is now talking about doing a nerve block.  He feels that the problem is no longer a bulging disk, but is sacroilic (sp?) pain or problems in that joint.  I'm hoping that by doing that it will relieve her pain so that she can stop taking the medications.  I'm knowing that she is addicted to at the very least the Hydrocodone since she's been taking it for almost 2 years.  Any advice?  Thanks in advance for your help!

Nancy

[Bodymechanic]

Nancy

If a disc problem has been ruled out and a sacroilliac joint problem is suspected, here is what I suggest.  Sacroilliac problems post traumatically almost always involve an instability at the sacroilliac joint.  Instability means that the ligaments holding the joint have been over stretched and are not returnting to their normal length.

Here is the treatment protocol for that general situation.

1) Stabilize the joint with a sacroilliac brace.  Someone will need to try a few types of braces to see which belt gives the most relief.  When you find the right belt a reduction in pain will definately be noticed. The patient will be able to walk much easier.
2) The brace should be worn 16 hours a day, except at night. Wearing the brace will help the ligaments to shorten.
3) An exercise regiment needs to be started and followed.  The exercises must be done while wearing the brace (this is important)
4) The muscles supporting the pelvis and sacrolliac joint must be tested for flexibility and strength. The lower torso must be balanced in terms of strength and flexiblity.  Specific stretching as either Active Release Techique or Neuromuscular Rehab most be done. Nothing else will work.
5) The proper strenthening exercises must be started. They must be done in the proper order. (start with the piriformis, glute complex and abdominals)
6) The medication can be continued until the therapy takes effect and the pain begins to reduce. (about 3-4 weeks)

If the sacroilliac joint is unstable, which it probably is, then the area needs to be stabilized.  Blocking the nerve will only make your brain ignore that there is a problem.

Please pay the receptionist on your way out.

[coswathy]

thomas could you include the "RECIPE" in your next comments...Im new and would like to read it...if it isd tooo long I will send u my email add