Dr. prescribed dilaudid 2 mg taper to get off suboxone

[TheTwins]

I have been on subs for about 1 1/2 yrs. and at 2mg for 6 mnths. I want off but when I try to go below 2 mgs it ***** and interferes with my work. I recently went to my doctor and he has prescribed me dilaudid 2 mgs pills and plans to begin a taper. He also prescribed valium which I absolutely hate and havent taken .Is this a reasonable plan to get a person off subs??? He has shown me that he has experience with subs (bup) and detoxing patients and is confident this is the way to go but I have concerns and reservations after investigating this . Please Help me understand ??? Thanks

[TrayCee]

Per Dr. Junig
"A physician is allowed to dispense, not prescribe, opiates each day for a maximum of three days to treat withdrawal. But it is illegal to prescribe a taper of a schedule II narcotic. "

Its called the Harrison Act and the Dr. could loose his/her licenses for doing this.

Just an FYI

[dominosarah]

I really dont understand the thinking here.  You are trying to get off sub and the doctor prescribes another opiate to detox off.  Going from opiate to opiate to another opiate just doesnt make sense.  WD is no fun by any means but it is all part of the process.  There are things you can do to make the wd's more tolerable that doesnt include another opiate.  Are you receiving any type of aftercare?  Glad you are here and we will support you.....sara

[TheTwins]

the doctor is the pain management doctor at my surgeons office and he claims that he worked with buphrenorphine when it was only available as injectable and used this method many times. I have a past of drug abuse and it was a long time ago but I still am hesitant. The subs at such a loew dose dont do alot for me but the dilaudid I am afraid will. I was in a detox many yrs ago that use dilaudid to get me off opiates but it was an eight day detox and I still had mild w/d's.10 yrs ago I got off herion and on methadone which I used correctly without abusing any other drugs.I have come from that to subs (2 mgs) and now that my triple cervical fusion is healed and I have almost no pain I want to get off but am stuck at 2 mgs and cant seem to drop any further without getting sick. .I dont mean to question this doc but I am no dummy and am aware of the dangers of his method and wonder if I should just stay where I am until I can have the time to detox without interfereing with work. I would do it now but with the economy and being a single dad I can afford to.Thanks for the support and all comments are welcome  Dave

[dominosarah]

If it were me i wouldnt take the dilaudid.  You have a history of opiate abuse...this one is no different.  You will be sick at some point when you come off any opiate.  You have to decide when the time is right to come off the sub.  Stick around and keep posting......sara

[troubleinohio]

boy this one sure has me scratching my head, lol...so you went on Sub to get off Opiates...and now that you are going off Sub your doctor wants to give you another opiate?? and a strong one at that...makes no sense...so what happens if you take the dilaudid....youre going to have WD off that, TOO!! No matter what way you look at it, you are going to HAVE to WD from something, theres just no way around it. That'd be like someone putting you on a tiny little island and telling you to swim back to the main shore without getting wet.      I definitely wouldnt take the dilaudid. I would just taper down on the sub til you are taking little crumbs each day/every other day and then Jump. Good luck to you, keep us posted

[salsinator]

Hi All,

This is very interesting.  My Suboxone doctor worked for the pharma company that makes the drug and he goes around the states training docs on how to use suboxone.  When I was working with him to get off suboxone, he mentioned to me that there were some docs at the Mayo Clinic that were using small doses of Morphine to taper patients off suboxone because of the long half life.  Appearantly there are some finding that it is easier to taper off a full opaiate after being stablized on suboxone.  He did mention the Harrison Act and potential legal ramifications, but also admitted that this form of taper/detox would work.  I understand the comments here on the danger of using a full opaite - esspecially for addicts - but I also know from personal experience that tapering off suboxone is nearly impossible - or is very difficult and a long process.  If a regular opaite can be withdrawn in a matter of a few days vs. weeks and is easier, I would conisder it an option - in a very controlled supervised environment.  The detox that I finally went through used tramadol for the first 6 of 8 days and valium - however I had 24 hour supervision and someone that dispensed the medication, so it was heavily controlled.  There was much more to the process - but it worked and I am glad that I did it.  I tried tapering from 2mg on my own and could not do it.  TheTwins - keep talking with your doctor and gain additional advice, maybe even a second opinion.  You do have options, listen to reason here before making your decision.  Best of luck.

[TrayCee]

what are you going to take to detox off the dilaudid?

[leeisgettingclean]

i do see the rational to this in some strange way, i would assume the doc would hope that the patient would not become dependant on the deluda after just a few days, however I would personaly think its just prolonging the w/ds and setting up the possiblity of another addiction, but I am no doc so who knows

[leeisgettingclean]

just to clarify, all though i said i some how strangley see what the doctor might be thinkin thats not to say I agree..I feel that when you quit its best to taper or c/t your DOC and be done

[leeisgettingclean]

And I would also assume the doctor is not putting in the charts that he is givin this to the patient for detox purpuse but rather he is prob putting that he is giving it for pain..I once talked to a doctor about sub and they said that he could only have 100 people on his sub program by law but they said for me to come oin and he would give it to me anyhow and prescribe it for pain instead

[NorcoQueenoftheUniverse]

I'm confused.. Is sub a drug that you have to be on for the rest of your life?? Kinda like methadone?? Do the doctors that put you on this detox program get a kick back?  (for the rest of THEIR life?)

[leeisgettingclean]

no you do not have to be on it for the rest of your life, however i am sure that some are so scared of the w/ds and for a good reason, that they choose to stay on it for the rest of there lifes..I am sure the doctors are getting something as long as you do stay on it..I do not think the doctors get in any hurry to take you off it

[salsinator]

Lee - you are right.  Suboxone is not something you are supposed to take the rest of your life, but many people - including me - stay on it much longer than intended because they become addicted to the sub and are scared of withdrawal.  If I knew then what I know now - I would have detoxed off my DOC and never gone the sub route - the one thing I can say about sub though it that it helped me eliminate the drug seeking behavior and since my detox in June - I have NEVER had a craving.  I know that I am the exception to the rule, but I am thankful.  Did you take sub Lee?

[leeisgettingclean]

hey buddy, no i have never takin sub, I have read plenty of stories on here as well as educate myself through publishings and stuff, I think that outside a controlled medical enviroment it can be scary stuff

[TheTwins]

Thasnks for all the comments.I am going to the doctor today.He prescribed my the dilaudid and valium last month and wanted me to begin it then.It has been a month and I still have not.Something in me keeps telling me this makes no sense.I do belive if I was in a controlled environment ..maybe this approach could work but I have battled addiction my entire life and have come a long way from using dope 10 yrs ago ,to methadone for 8 yrs,and from 28mgs of sub down to my current 1.5-2 mgs of subs.I have mentioned a method I read on a forum about putting the sub in water and dropping .01 mg steps to taper but all 3 doc's Ive mentioned it too just blew that off as a bad idea??? like this one isnt?? I did go through an 8 day dilaudid detox many yrs ago that worked well to get off a short acting opiate but still had a w/d although minor..but that was in a controlled setting.I am strong and have support but at 2 mgs of sub and being functional I cant get past the reasoning of switching one opiate for another.I will talk with the doc today about my concerns and his reasoning and report back to everyone. Thanks again for the comments and support. Twin A

[theeagle]

Its all about the time element. The dilaudid has a much shorter serum life than the sub - sub stays around about forever in your body.  You make the transition to dilaudid and the long sub life doesnt enter the equation.  Then you taper the dilaudid to a reasonable level and quit it.  Biggest problem here sounds like you may not trust yourself to hold the meds?  Most of us are really bad at tapering.  And 2mg of sub is still a healthy dose......