ESH

[KimH]

I wondered if we could try that again? Will anyone share the positives of being sober compare to the hell of being addicted? I wan't to thank you Methman for sharing your hope. I didn't mention, I am an X herion addict and have been to a methadone clinic for a few years as well. I havent touched it in 4 years but I take ultram by the fistful. Not right now, I have been following the doctor's ween. I just think positive sharing of being sober really helps you get through the hard part of recovery. When you don't see any positive, seeing someone else's does.

[motox4fun01]

A refresher course on my story:
I came here about 12 months ago in the midst of trying to stop a hydro habit which began for legitimate pain and progressed to being a totally out of control DILAUDID injecting frenzy after the pain of the surgery was gone.
I first used opiates at age 29 and here I am just 2 months after my 32nd birthday with the OPIATE MONKEY securely fastened to my back.
I was a Registered Nurse with a bright future. I am now a jobless junkie with the realization that I can't come up with this month's rent and the dope is GONE!
So, here I sit with 26 hours since my last oxycontin IV. RLS, Sweats, Chills, the works! The 5 or so times I have detoxed have never detered me from using again. I lost EVERYTHING! No license to practice nursing, No job and possibly soon no place to live. I have no money or insurance to seek professional help. WILL THIS EVER END???????????????
Any thoughts out there? I am out of answers!
James

[MethMan]

Hello Kim,
Prior to using when you were younger, did you have more inner strength?  How about hope?  Hope for a better tomorrow?  Had you given up on feeling good about yourself then?
How about now?  Are there any differences in how you perceive yourself?
Those were the questions that I had to answer.  Once I was honest with myself, the choice for me was obvious.  Each person is different, so it stands to reason that there will be different motivating factors for each of our successes when dealing with this monster.
I, like most, can type to you about how wonderful we feel; how great it is to be off our DOC.  Other than posting back, "That's great, I'm happy for you." it doesn't help YOU much.
My suggestion is for you to search inside yourself.  Answer the tough questions. Once you feel like you've come to the right conclusion for you, there is only one thing more for you to do.  Leap of faith.  Trust and believe in your abilities to take back what is yours.
Peace,
Methman

[vettezr1]

Dude I remember you. I thought you were doing ok what happened? Sorry to hear about the hard times, losing the license has to suck can’t you appeal it after you clean up?
What about SS on a temporary basis I have a buddy at work that smashed into a tree last year; he has to be feed threw a sippy cup, work ****** him over so my attorney friend got him set up on SS he is only 30 just a thought. Kim I do not know anything about Heroin or **** like that but I got really sick from morphine and **** like that it’s been a few months now and I feel great energy’s back lost all the morphine weight I gained made some cool friends here I don’t know what quantifies as success because the only ones that I know personally were pain patients like myself and we had no cravings for the stuff so at least in that regard it might have been easier for us. But it sounds like you have fought an admirable fight good job.  
MotoX what’s up Detox before dude? I got so GD sick I am scared to death to ever take that stuff again in my entire life? Email me maybe we can help out somehow the other guys remember you as well I had to take the day off today I broke some bones over the weekend and a few of them are sitting here breaking my balls.
Give us a way to contact you.

[mrmichael67]

Cars, if they are misused, can kill.  I guess we should get rid of them as well?  Other than that, what can I say?  Just when I thought I have seen it all.

[motox4fun01]

Hey man!
My email is ***@****
I thought i was doing OK too!
It only took one time and I was HOOKED again!
Life seems like a big CHORE again.
I was back to riding my Dirt bike and now I am BROKE with no dirt bike and DETOXing AGAIN!

[bmac]

Where did you Go Rebecca?
How about let us know what is up with you!

[Thomas050]

Hi KimH
I really want to offer feedback, but I feel guilty commenting on the wonders of sobriety because I am on the fence with pain pill use myself so I'm not necessarily sober.
That being said, I have alot of experience with depression. One thing about depression is that it is a very normal emotion that every single person on earth experiences. Some people experience it more and worse than others and for some it is so severe it's an actual illness that should be treated medically. But the blahs are normal. I found that understanding and accepting that actually helps. And the good thing about it is that it's usually temporary, comes in sperts. If you can ride it out and get thru it, you will have some good days. That's the key, drag yourself thru the bad times, ride them out, and live for the good times. Kind of fundamental, but it helps me.
Next, there are a few things that can help during the depressed times. Prob the best thing is keeping your mind occupied with something. A great thing is to find new hobbies. Reading, take a class (drawing, photography, perhaps an instrument, or (blank) lessons (fill in the blank) - there are probably hundreds of choices). Perhaps a part time job somewhere. Or volunteering somewhere (animal shelter, big brothers & sisters, a childrens hospital, that kind of stuff). AA/NA meetings help some people. They provide structure and support that some find sobriety through.

Personally I like taking my dogs for walks at the lake, and I like reading self help books, relationship books, uplifting religious books, and I think I am going to take tennis lessons. Nothing groundbreakingly inspirational, but just some theory and practice that I find helps me. And keeping busy is definitely a great way to combat depression.
If things aren't helping, don't rule out trying a psychologist or therapist. Talking about things can help also. This is something I have tried, but I think the key is finding a good one, and that may not happen on the first try, as I found out. But I will try again at some point in the future.

Kind regards,
T050

[SarpyJesse]

I think I could put it into an equasion here-

Option Explicit

     Opiates for Chronic Pain Management = help many get life back

     Opiates for fun = Great then Good then Average then Just living then barely living then dead.

End if


I'd hope that most of us would agree on that.

Looks a little looney in here again. But hey- to quote a great leader, "A little cleansing from time to time is a good thing."

Jess

[motox4fun01]

Bill,
How are you man? I remember you from when you were posting everyday about your days clean from Methadone. Wasn't that in January or so I remember. Did you relapse? How are things now? I know you are a pain sufferer and I am not so at least if you relapsed, you had a real reason to.
James

[SarpyJesse]

You have a good point there. When I'm President I WILL ban cars altogether. I've read that cars are responsible for the slaughter of 35-40,000 people per year! Geez.... The gun control folks are pissed off at only 3 or 4 thousand deaths per year; and here you've uncovered something that kills TEN TIMES more people... Yes, Cars will have to go.

Kim- Sorry about the humor in here but if we can't laugh at what is sometimes a dark time, when should we? It will get better for you! Keep the chin up.

Jess

[cosmicstargoat]

Of course you haven't seen everything, you silly human.  Only The Cosmic Star Goat, who created the universe by eating the false, irrasible, ill-tempered god Yahweh and expelled him as a fetid cloud of methane gas, has seen it all.

The Cosmic Star Goat is the creator of all things, that is, except, Methadone, which was created by Hitler and his Henchmen as an evil and subversive plot to turn America into a bunch of whining drug addicts.  

Oh, BTW, don't worry about Pillman torturing you with his longer than ususal half-lives.  He is safely locked away.

cya

[vettezr1]

Hey here is a really funny one. Maybe we should ban Methadone from people who try and bullshit that they use it for pain management when they are really using for other reasons but think they are fooling everyone.
So if Bullshitting Then Goto Next if =
If this applies (then apply) or (not)
**** Head.
Why is it the people that always irritate me the most are the ones that are always out of my reach?
Mike if you are pissed that I took your girl you never had her.

[Kurt Cobain]

** disclaimer -- very long rant ahead **

. . .and I call you guys that, because no matter what out social strata, our skin color, religious creed, age, sex or sexual orientation, the people here are bound by something stronger than any of these or a million other ties:  the time we have spent together in the Pit and under the heel of the Dragon.  Like veterans of physical combat, we are the only ones who can well and truly understand each other.  We know how it is to go without sleep for days on end while our legs twitch and spasm like we were being Tasered.  We know how it is to eat a box of Imodium (immodium) AD like it was candy and still keep on wiping our asses until they bleed.  We know the fear, the pain, the shame, and the feeling like none of it will ever, ever end. . .until our lives themselves do -- and as far as we're concerned, that can't come soon enough.

We know how it is to sit around and think things like "How the hell did this happen to me?" and "I don't even know why I'm doing this anymore".  We know the feelings of slavery as we continue to watch ourselves do things that are reprehensible to us, things that we don't want to do. . .the lying, the hiding, the stealing. . .like we are watching a horror movie.  We want to scream "Don't go in there!" at ourselves as we head not into the dark attic room alone, but into the pharmacy, the doctor's office, the corner in the 'hood where our connection is. . .but the drugs rob us of our voices, and all we can do is watch ourselves do the same doomed, damned things over and over again.  If there is a hell, I don't see how it can be any worse or more devoid of hope than this.

We have gone through withdrawal after withdrawal. . .many of us, after this first torture, are CERTAIN that this will be enough to keep them off of drugs -- that they will never, EVER subject themselves to this kind of agony again.  I know I did -- many, many times. . .until I got high that next time, thinking it would be different somehow this time, I would handle it better, that my experience and knowledge made me better equipped somehow as a dragon-tamer.  Until, after a while, I knew better.  I knew what would happen, and how, and why, and when, even as I took another dose. . .and it didn't matter a damn to me.

I have "mentally masturbated" until my brain was flaming and my ego was sore. . .about the terms "addiction", "dependence (physical and/or emotional)", "motivation", "powerlessness", and on and on and on.  No matter how much I thought I knew (and I was probably more qualified than many physicians and medical workers as far as my theoretical knowledge of the subjects of addiction and pharmacology were concerned), it never seemed to make any difference when I was jonesing for more junk or twisting the night away underneath my sweat-soaked blankets.  In the end, the only thing worth knowing was that, as far as how much it could help me, all my knowledge -- AND experience -- were worth exactly squat.

From time to time people with more "clean time" than I would tell me things (that is, when I felt like listening and wasn't too busy expounding on my own vast knowledge. . .stroking my frontal lobes, in other words).  Many of this was **** that I really did NOT want to hear, thank you very much. . .stuff like "never underestimate the power of your disease", "don't get cocky", and so on.  Then I would see people that I knew who had YEARS clean and off the ****, people who had their lives together again, people who walked the walk and talked the talk -- people who had helped ME -- suddenly disappear for a while. . .or longer.  Sometimes I never saw them again.  That, almost, was less frightening than those I DID see again -- the ones who came back, pale, shaken, and now with less clean time than I, the relative newcomer, had.  Like maybe 24 hours of it.  If that kind of thing doesn't scare you, then there's something more seriously wrong with you than addiction.

As I believe I stated in another of my recent posts here (and trying very hard not to repeat myself), during my first rehab my group was told that 9 out of the 10 of us would relapse at least once.  Of course, I was convinced I was The One, and, of course, I was not.  There are only a few people I know of who have an absolute ZERO chance of relapse, and I can mention them by name. . .Jimi Hendrix. . .Elvis Presley. . .Janis Joplin. . .John Belushi. . .and one that hits me hardest and closest, Kurt Cobain.  These people will never relapse because they have found the only foolproof cure for addiction, and that is death.  It certainly is 100% effective, but it's also a little bit permanent.

I don't mean for this to be a depressing, hopeless rant. . .what I DO mean for it to be is an illustration of the facts as I have experienced them.  Oddly, they jibe pretty well with many of the things the "old-timers" first told me when I began associating myself with other recovering addicts.  So, in light of new information (and always with an open mind), I present them here in the spirit of "Hey, this **** is probably TRUE!" to anyone who wants to listen.  Before moving on to some of the things that get better without drugs (and there are many, many of them), let me also say this -- whether you want to call it a "bottom" or "the end" or "a miracle" or whatever, the only thing I can say, from MY experience, about stopping the use of drugs is this -- it won't happen until it happens.  When it does, you will know.  There is no set point out there for any of us -- not disease, not jail, not divorce, not physical harm. . .any or all of these things could serve as the key to the cell door of addiction. . .or maybe even none of them.  Or something else entirely.  It is maybe the most subjective thing in human experience.  Anyone who says they know for certain when they (or anyone else) have "hit bottom" and are "done with drugs forever" is either lying or, more often, simply mistaken.

So, does it get better?  I'm still a baby. . .almost 13 months free of narcotics. . .but here are a few things I have now that I didn't 13 months ago -- the ability to go through a day without being sick, and without craving the things which make me sick. . .the ability to remember to shower and eat on a regular basis. . .to keep my bills (reasonably) under control and not have to decide between food for the week or junk for my brain. . .a spouse who now actually looks up to me instead of down on the floor or the couch where I usually spent most of my days. . .kids who don't have to wonder why daddy's always "sick" or "tired" and who actually wants to be involved in their lives. . .the ability to take complements from others (and actually GET them in the first place) without feeling that they are wrong, that they must be stupid if they feel I am a good person, that I've fooled them somehow. . .and there is much more, I'm sure, that I have almost gotten to the point of taking for granted.

And that's why I'm GLAD to be back here among my family. . .to be reminded to never, EVER take even (especially!) the smallest joys and wonders for granted -- to remind me that as long as I'm alive I'm only a heartbeat away from losing everything again, should I become careless or overconfident.  I appreciate the words and stories of everyone here more than you could ever imagine. . .it is my only hope that I can give something back to someone who may be in need, as I was (and am now, and will always be).  Thanks to those of you who stuck with this whole novel of a post, which hopefully made sense (I never seem to know for sure by the time I get to the end), and thanks as well for allowing me to take up so much of your time and space.

Peace,

Kurt

[hippy]

hey kurt, i for one can relate to everything you wrote,
i also have 13 months clean , i did have 16 years clean at one time , but i did get careless with pain meds, i thought
i knew everything, but as it turned out i was clueless when it came to pain meds , as they were not my drug of choice
when i was forced to get clean the 1st time.
your words hit home as if i had written them, or anyone
of the other addicdts  here may have written.
there is something about the truth, it very attractive.
thanks for a little truth today, it was a pleasure
to read.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[mrmichael67]

oh, I guess the creation of methadone had nothing to do with us cutting off Germany's opium supply?  Yeah, right.  Maybe 'ol omnipotent one should pick up a book.

[tracer3]

I can share my experience, for what it's worth. I started using pain pill legitimately (while welcoming the pain that gave me that reason, so how legit it really was, who knows?) several years ago on a daily basis. I progressed to Oxy for a while, then back down to Norco. After pressure from my family I finally decided to check into rehab. I'd quit CT on my own several times, but only because I ran out of pills, so I knew at least what the withdrawal was like. I was on Ultram for a time after rehab and did fine, then had a seizure and got off the Ultram and put on Bup for pain relief, as I still had that thorny issue. Then my doctor, who was an addiction specialist, was told be the DEA that he couldn't prescribe Bup until it was approved for addiction patients, or some such, even though he was giving it for pain, not withdrawal. So he switched me back to Norco, which I happily gobbled up for several months, getting worse than I ever was. I finally decided enough was enough, this time for me. I had reached my own personal "bottom," which is what I think has to happen to be successful - but each of us decides where that bottom is. I had just quit my job, had another seizure, separated then reconciled with my husband, and was tremendously stressed, and realized the pills were no fun anymore and I was chained to them. I would wake up in the morning already withdrawing from the night before. My pain was still there but I had one more surgery, which promised hope. I had that and one week later quit the pills. I had no insurance so had to do it at home at that point, but my doctor did give me tranqs and other meds to get through. That was April 1, 2002. I went through one week of hell, one week of semi-hell, then days of deep depression followed by enormous joy at really living. I realized that even the depression was good because at least I was feeling "real" emotions, not muted things. It all passes. The euphoria of being clean gives way to normalcy, which brings its own danger. You have to accept that that's what normalcy is - it might be boring, but it has ups and downs that are manageable, not the crazy prison of drug abuse. I still get anxious sometimes. I get depressed sometimes. But I no longer obsess every day about the pills and how bad I want them. When that starts to happen, I distract myself (that advise is golden, as I saw many hear do the same thing) until it naturally passes and is just kind of in the back of your mind. I have occassionally used pain killers since then for true pain, but through most away because otherwise I did obsess that they were in the house. Once they were gone, I could move on. I came to this site every day for hours (as Tex3) last year, then gradually moved away from it as I went back to work and my life was no longer centered around pills or thinking about pills. It does happen. You have to take the good with the bad and just keep putting one foot in front of the other, and finally you'll have taken a lot of steps away from active using. Don't obsess - that's the key. Don't think about how much you want it - if you find that happening, go see a movie, read a book, anything to distract yourself. Eventually life will distract you all on its own. That's not to say you won't ever think about it. But you get to decide if you act on it or not. I will say that being "normal" and not chained to the pills - even without the extraordinary highs - beats the extraordinary lows that come with the pills, hands down. You just have to work at making life interesting on its own merit. Good luck. Trust me, though, it does happen if you put in the effort, even though I'm the first to admit it's a lot of work. But well worth it.

[hippy]

there is no need for you to defend yourself,
mostly all of us at this fourm know who to
ask if we have a question about meds.
your information has been impecable.
i think some of us need to be reminded
that when it come,s to meds and information
that it can be a matter of life ans death and
quality of life on the other end of the spectrum.

seems like another situation where some of us drug addicts
are trying to  put the round peg of the chronic pain issue into
the square hole of drug addicts and thier plight with addiction.  

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hippy

[Chezz2]

I second that Hippee. Everyone who has been here or read for a while knows how lucky we are to have MrMichael here to help us when we have questions on meds.
The only reason someone is trying to **** with him is jealousy, or for other reasons unknown.
The bottom line is, we all know Mrm and are thankful for the knowledge he possesses regarding pain meds and thier applications.
In fact later today, I have a question for you Mrm. As my doc added a new med today, actually 2 that I haven't been on before.

Thanks for being there and helping anyone and everyone where your expertise is involved.

Chezz

[cosmicstargoat]

Cheese sez: "The only reason someone is trying to **** with him is jealousy, or for other reasons unknown"

Well, I can see that you are a logical powerhouse, aren't you?

Jealousy, or reasons unknown.  That encompasses an infinite number of possible reasons for challenging him and therefore makes the possibility of it being jealousy approach the limit of ZERO.  

Now, why don't you run to hippee and mr michael, have a big group hug, and get him to instruct you on how to express yourself properly?

[Thomas03]

Are your posts some sort of ritualized spam? Seems to me you're going out of your way to antagonize every poster you can find here.

Thomas

[cosmicstargoat]

"Seems to me you're going out of your way to antagonize every poster you can find here."

That's a broad brush, Thomas.  If you will check carefully, you might find that I only responded when addressed, either directly or indirectly, not that I have to justify my motivations to you or anyone else.

[mrmichael67]

Thanks guys.  I won't continue with this anyway.  Everything I post, I can back up.  I will just let expillman, I mean cosmicstargoat.....maybe I will just call him/her Cybill...carry on with the trash he or she can't possibly back up.  Using the press as an irrefutable source.  That's classic.  I am sure there isn't any bias in the press.  I suppose Dolophine is named after Adolf Hitler as well?  That is where the actual myth he refers to comes from.  This link explains it well:  http://www.methadone.org/es3MYTHS3.html  as does this one:  http://www.drugtreatment.net/meth.html  and this one explains it well:  http://web1.caryacademy.org/chemistry/rushin/StudentProjects/CompoundWebSites/2001/Methadone/history.htm

I think that should cover it.  I could go on, but it just isn't necessary.  Methadone was just a spoil of WWII.  So was Demerol and Darvon.

[cosmicstargoat]

It's just awful when you pull the wrong tail, isn't it?

First and foremost, Mr. Michael, you are a Liar.  You state that you won't continue the subject and then you proceed to go on a diatribe, touting your own claimed knowledge.  

You then try to erect a straw argument about someone claiming to use the press as an "irrefutable source".  Where was this stated?

You then proceed to expose yourself as a pious HYPOCRITE by trying to enter URL's as [Don't let me put words in your mouth, Herr Michael], shall I say, sources?

You appear to be a legend in your own mind, worshiped by some in this Forum, and have absolutely now idea of who or what you are dealing with.  

You appear to be nothing more than what you criticized another individual as being, claiming victory without merit, deploring sources unless they are your own, and desperately clinging to a drug that is a dangerous artifact.

Do you have a Doctorate in Pharmacology, Herr Michael?

[hippy]

ya get to know people by the fruit they bare,
so far all you have shown us is how clever you are,
im sure you are home applauding yourself.
mr michael, thomas, kip, chezz  and myself, meth man , percs,etc.
have been here earning respect  for years.
why don't you try to be part of, and try kindness.
this is a support fourm, ,calling mr michael
methadone michael is pure sarcasam. there is no need for it.
we reap waht we sow , sow be carefull ,nobody need that kind of negitive  karma coming thier way.
so use some of that cleverness for a something positive,
such as support or humor, kindness, compassion.
things that earn respect.

[mrmichael67]

What's all this hooey about METHADONE being safe? Shoooot, boy, The New York City Times reported in February that Methadone is killing people right and left, worse than bad BBQ. Don't you know that Methadone is just another synthetic opioid that JUNKIES are trying to sanitize and make respectable, just to keeep using?
*************************                                       You used the New York City Times as your source to back you up.  Nothing else needs to be said about that.  Methadone is also used for pain.  But, I guess any sources that I could list to say that are biased as well, right?  What I state about methadone is simple medical fact and can be found in countless documents, web pages, and so on.  Actually, what I state about opioids is simple medical fact.  Anything I post, I researched at one time.  It isn't pulled out of my ass.  Anything can be backed up with a simple search on your favorite search engine.  I recommend anyone who gets info from the net to always get a second opinion or at least qualify what they hear or read.  Yes, call me Pinnochio.  I lied....from writing this post.  Not before it.  Now, it is over.  I certainly have no idea why Cindy or Phil are putting up with this person's stay here.  The sphincterly one with the perpetual pucker has actually called for addicts to be executed.  Are you kidding me here?  No more from me, I promise.  Not worth any more of my time.

[cosmicstargoat]

Thanks, you made my day :-).  I WILL call you Pinnocio, but for a different reason than an elongation of the nose when lying.  

I certainly hope that I didn't tear your rotater cuff in the process.

[bmac]

You sir are a ass! Now what cha got now!

[SarpyJesse]

Ok- Let's get back to the "regular MedHelp" mode now.

Cosmicstargoat offers his experience from the view of a non-addict who's done a cold-turkey off opiates. Many newcomers who do not put themselves into the "Slot" of being an "Addict" will benefit from HIS knowledge.

MrMichael offers HIS experience from the point of view as both a pain patient, and addict On Methadone Maintenance Treatment. People who are any type of Maintenance or wish to classify themselves as an addict will benefit from HIS knowledge.

And there is someone representative of almost anything in-between here at MedHelp.

A new page has turned!

Jess

[bmac]

Hold on a minute, I am not here to defend MrM at all. I am voicing my opinion that this ******* idiot has nothing to offer but BS. If this wasn't a public forum, he would be banned! LOL
Anyway I was voicing my own opinion and you of all people should realize he is posting under two different names but hey like I give a rip(not you Pammy) LOL
So to me this is the same old medhelp I have come to love so dearly.
Goathead get a friggin' life and leave us addicts alone, Please!
Thanks for your cooperation! Bmac has Spoken!

[Erika_Ann]

You must be pretty unhappy with yourself to take so much time out of your day to write all these clever statements and jumble jargle.
No-one obviously cares for you here. Why are you so negative? Did your mom remove the bottle tooo soon?
Your really immature man. Wake up!!! We dont need you here!

Sorry, guys but this jerk has taken up too much space!!!

[bmac]

Thanks Erika Anne. Great name BTW. Oh don't let this idiot upset ya! Notice how intellegent he sounds when he really tries but notice when he posts to me he becomes an idiot. I have that effect on people!
So just let me handle mr.idiot and you just have a pleasant evening! Bmac

[eyeswideopen]

Thanks to those of you who have posted about what it really is to be addicted and get clean. To those of you who just want to **** on people and get your rocks off - please do it somewhere else. There are "outsiders" like myself who are searching and wind up here hoping to get comfort and guidance, something that will let us know that we can survive on our own. Can someone who is not a jackass tell me the best way to start coming off Norco 10's and the best way to stay off everything. I have been addicted since age 12 (20 yrs now) to pot, acid, X, crank, tylox, roxicet...the list goes on. It's easy to exchange one for the other but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE - tell me what the next step is to become and STAY clean. Is it inhouse Rehab, 12 step, what?  I have no family support whatsoever and have been using the last 3 yrs for a dislocated hip and 5 torn disk. I understand that I will still have the physical pain but the emotional and mental is so much harder to deal with. Also, how much do I tell my 13 y/o? Thanks to anyone who will take the time to help me even though I am not part of your group.

[Sturgil]

As the saying goes...


If you spot it, then you got it!

I find it is easier to work another persons program than my own. It makes for less writing.



Sturgil Flockin

[bmac]

Jesus, please give me the patients with idoits! I beg of you!
(hey goatman, Im a Christian, got a problem with that too!)?

[SarpyJesse]

You have admittedly been addicted to many drugs since the age of 12-- You have a hard road ahead. I have seen a couple cases of addicts being able to turn over a new leaf and live "Clean", but that is very rare. I think that the in-house treatment option would be your best bet for now. Treatment will give you "tools" to help you try to stay clean, and 30 days of sobriety. I guess It would depend upon how long you've gone without mind-altering chemicals throughout your 20 years of addiction. If you HAVE been able to stop using for more than 30 days at a time, a 12-step program such as AA or NA would probably your next option. And the OTHER option that I was eluding to (if you really can't picture yourself ever being clean for the rest of your life)is a program of Methadone, or the newly-approved drug Subutex (which is a brand name for buprenorphine hydrochloride--- An opiate agonist with similar action to methadone)-- These maintenance programs will help you NOT take the illegal drugs, and/or doing illegal things by forfilling the craving (menatal dependance) and withdrawl symptoms (physical dependance) that opiates produce over a long history of abuse.

I hope that this infomation was helpful-- and good luck in your search for an answer.

Jess

[SarpyJesse]

To clarify my first sentence in my original post to you, I said: "I have seen a couple cases of addicts being able to turn over a new leaf and live 'Clean', but that is very rare."

I meant to say that it is hard for someone with that long of a history (20 years) and starting the drug use at such a young age, it is rare for *this type* of addict to change their lifestyle. That's why I suggested looking into Methadone or Buprenorphine Maintenance programs.

Good luck

Jess

[cosmicstargoat]

No, Big Mac, I don't have a problem with christianity or any other type of mythology.

[bmac]

Now, you could have come up with a better line than that! I tell you what, think about it a few days and get back to me when you regain your senses, if that is possible! I still haven't understood you yet, can you speak Southern for a change, I don't understand Proper English very well, I like things 'splain'd to me, thanks! Big Mac

[cosmicstargoat]

I know, Big Mac, but I wanted to break it to you slowly, to ease the trauma.  You see, the chances are very good, based on objective study of the evidence, that Jesus never existed at all, much less being a God or a SonofaGod.  So Sorry.

You see, there is just no parallel historical evidence to corroborate the Gospels, which were written 75 years after the fact.  Josephus's writings that seem to support the account of The Christ have clearly been shown to be forgeries [an overenthusiastic cleric in The Middle Ages] and there is just no other historical accounts to support the outrageous claims made in the Gospels.  For example, remember when Jesus was in the Garden with his diciples to pray before he went before Pilate?  Remember that they all fell asleep and he had to pray and sweat blood alone?  Who observed and recorded that if they were all asleep?   Strange, isn't it?   Remember after the crucifixion and all those tombs broke open and all those dead saints came back to life and went to town and appeared to many?  Don't you think that would have caused some sort of mention in historical documents, save mention in Matthew and not the other Gospels?

You have a good night, ya hear?

[NotDarkYet]

Hello everyone, I haven't posted here in a number of weeks but that's just because I've been sooo busy!  Kim, you asked about the positives and the negatives of sobriety and, in my humble opinion, there are a helluva lot more positives in being clean than being strung out could ever be!

I too, was a heroin addict and I was on methadone for about 7 years, it's been one crazy ride but I'm going on 2 months clean and my outlook and focus are starting to brighten up (thank God!).  Lately I've been helping a friend renovate a home he just bought (carpentry, painting, landscaping etc;) and it's amazing just this past spring (March) there would have been no way in hell I'd be doing this.  I was too busy shooting $120 a day worth of heroin and cocaine to be bothered with 'normal, everyday' jobs that people do, it's surreal but it also gives me a rush.

The negatives are from personal experiences.  I neglected everyone that I ever cared for and those that cared for me, I just wrote them off and these were good people, friends. I exchanged them for bundles of dope, and my circle of friends, of course, became dope addicts (a real shady crew including myself, I'm not that arrogant to exclude myself from the shady category!).  I had a wonderful girl (we were actually engaged), she was my best friend and soulmate, I loved her deeply (still do) but she had to walk away from me (I just couldn't stop and at the time didn't know how) now she's married and I get bitter at times and kick myself (how different would my life be if only...coulda, woulda, shoulda... but I really miss her, now more than ever that my head's cleared up) but I chose what I did and who I am, now I just have to take something positive from it.  I narrowed down my world daily, bit by bit, til I was just tunnel vision- I couldn't see anything but getting high and didn't care about anything else but the next fix- I was a slave!  I pawned and sold off just about everything I ever owned (like that Ramones song, "I'm living on the chinese rock- all my best things are in hawk- I'm living on the chinese rock- everything is in the pawn shop...") even the clothes I wore.  In the end I just wanted it to end, I'd do too big of a dose and dare God to just get it over with- I was sooooo frickin' pathetic!

Yes, I'll admit I don't have a huge amount of clean time under my belt, but the world seems to be opening up and I'm not so scared to go out into it (being a junky, it was like I lived under a rock or a cave and became terribly paranoid) and be amongst the living.  I'm giving myself another chance, a clean slate and I can't f@#k that off.  We all have angels and devils on our shoulders and I've been flippin' the bird at that nasty little devil now for 2 months, 'screw off, I've had it!'.  I'm still relatively young (in my 20s) and in (amazingly enough!) good shape, with all I put myself through the past 10 years and it just feels so good not to have to rely on a pill, or a shot, or a snort or whatever to make it through my day- even sleeping a full 8 hours is a Godsend!  I guess I just got so sick of seeing myself dying all the time, you have to expect more from yourself in order to free yourself- raise the bar!!!  I just got so tired of the slavery and in sobriety at least you have your free will back.

I don't know if this helps but it's just how I feel today and, hopefully- tomorrow...  

[bmac]

As I thought, you learned your disrespect from the good old King James version of the Bible. Sorry, it wasn't written in English and I am sure with 'Kenites' like you around then no wonder 99% of the churches today lie, cheat and steal the money and souls from it's congregations. I understand your bias towards todays religion but if you would read a little deeper you would hear God saying 'I hate religion too'. It's there believe me. Everyone has an opinion on God and I do too. It's called faith for me! Something I have more of in my little finger than you and everyone you know! You can blast me over my addiction to meds and you can make fun of my lack of intellegent conversation but you can never take God from me and you know why, because He is real and I don't need proof of every little piece of history to prove He exsists. I just know it, like you believe in the power you have with words, I have that same power in my God, BTW his name is 'I AM THAT I AM', deal with that sir! And may God Bless you too!     Big Mac

[SarpyJesse]

Dt.4:40
"That thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for ever." --The God of all three "Major Religions"

Ps.102:25-26
"The earth and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish."-- The God of all three "Major religions" contradicting himself

WAIT-- God said that he giveth us the Earth forever, then he says that Earth shall perish?

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." --Revelations 22:13, Jesus on his own higher power. Christianity.

"The Prophet (Muhammad) said: 'Do not stone the adulteress who is pregnant until she has had her child.' After the birth she was put into a ditch up to her chest and the Prophet commanded them to stone her. Khalid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and he cursed her. The gentle Prophet prayed over her and she was buried."--(Hadith No. Muslim 682)-- Mohammed as his own higher power and "Judge"-- Islam

What does God say about Killing fellow man?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)-- The Torah/Old Testament -- Judaism


~~~~~Not to shake anyone's belief in his or her higher power, but I have a problem with "God" as defined by any "Religion"~~~~~

God Bless!

Jess

[bmac]

God didn't start religion, man did! God speaks truths, man speaks whatever he decides is right at the time. Man always changes, God has not changed in millions of years. We can not say that can we?
Good conversation though, just different opinions! Thanks!
  BillytheAddict

[cosmicstargoat]

"God didn't start religion, man did!"

I'll agree with that.  Primitive man used superstition and gods to fill GAPS that he did not understand.  As man progressed, things like thunder, lightning, the sun, moon and stars were explained in NATURAL terms and not by gods. Today, modern science has filled most of the gaps, making gods unnecessary.  The feeling of god in your head can be explained and reproduced.*

Primitive man was wrong about just about everything, why would you expect him to be RIGHT about gods and creation?

*Ramachandran, V.S. and Blakeslee, Sandra. Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind. HarperCollins, 1998.

[cosmicstargoat]

To put it very, very simply.....all religious beleif is, is very, very low grade epilepsy, nothing more.

[cosmicstargoat]

I agree with your comments to Kurt.  Once you start banning people for ideas, content, or for invading someone's precious space, what sort of free flow of information do you have?  It is best to let the PRISONERS police the YARD rather than have the guards in the tower take out those who a few find annoying.

[feelsobad]

You obviously relish confrontations. I won't lower myself to your shitty ass attitude. But you must realize that the people who come here do so to pour out their heart and soul. For many this is our only outlet, being the stigmatized addicts we are. We would like to welcome you to the forum for your expertise. But you seem to be full of bile. Bitterness is a cancer. It will eat at your soul. I know you will have some smart ass comment. But that seems to be part of the course for you. I have been on and off this forum more than once because caustic bastards like you. If you want to contribute some positive feedback, great! But if all you have is distain for we who suffer everyday we try to stay sober, then bow the **** out!
hippee said it best..."you reap what you sow".

no reguards,
feelsogood

[MethMan]

I've gotta tell ya, your writing style is really good.  I actually enjoy reading your "lighter side" commentary.  The only thing is, please kinda slow down on kickin' some of the folks here.
Believe me, I say that from experience.  I too am not of the type that enjoys constantly talking about the downside of addiction.  Rather, I like to (at least) try to point out the funny **** too.  It's kind of boring just dealing with the day in, day out hell of our situations, isn't it?
Let me give you an example of what I'm trying to say.
Over 7 months ago, I was in here fresh outta inpatient rehab from a 16 year methadone habit.  After getting free from that miserable monster, I opened the Methman Church of Methadone Haters Anonymous (Chapter 69).  I come in, start preaching to the congregation of the evils of Methadone; that it was Satan in pill form (liquid in some states :) ).  Here I was, rolling along with how bad that **** was.  Nothing could change my mind.  If there was a single soul on methadone, I was the man to save em.
Well, my church and it's doctrine took a big **** on me.  Two members of this board waltzed through the door and told me their stories.  Out of respect for both, I won't mention their names.  But one of em was a chronic pain patient that would NOT have a life worth living without it.  The other was someone that was on heroin, living on the street and once on methadone, they were off the street and living a much better life.
Those were hard parishoners for the Methman Church of Methadone Haters to handle.  Afterall, they were surely going to cause what we preachers refer to as "Tithing Dwindle".
My belabored point is that everyone has a story.  They are where they are in life because of their own circumstances, whether beyond their control or not.  We don't have to understand or even agree with them, only realize that they in fact, are in the same boat as we are.
Can I get an AMEN from the congregation?  Or at least from the organ lady.

[bmac]

You still at it? You posts are so full of it. You are using words I am sure must be in the english language but these must be words they taught in Kollege cause I ain't never heard such. See, I am a real person that had problems growing up. I didn't go to coolege and learn how to be rude and full of ****. Goat, at first you didn't bother me but I got to tell ya now, you are about to be on my last nerve. If Cindy and Phil don't ban your sorry arrogant ass, I'll do it for them, you are an ******* and you deserve a 1000 withdrawals all at once, may God give you what you keep asking for, to be put out of your misery.
I for one wish you would post your addresss so I could fly to where ever they let assholes live and KICK YOU ASS and I would, believe me. I have had it with your rude and arrogant BS. Leave or I will hunt you down like the DOG you are, you nasty Kenite, be gone...............

Cindy, ban this idiot before I LOSE MY F***ing mind here, Jesus Christ give us a break, please........................

[cosmicstargoat]

Boy, I'm really sorry that you are having such a rough morning.  Your position is a little confusing, as you told Kurt to NOT complain to the management about an annoying poster, then in the next breath you complain to the management to have me banned.

Do you see a problem of consistency here?  I was told to stand up to the 'regulars'[whatever they are], then when I "stand up" in my own unique way, I am told to leave.  I must say that your position has been the MOST inconsistent, coming out of nowhere, begging for a fight, and then complaining to the management when you get one?

Do you have an explanation for me?