Family members and your situation.

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

I was just curious how your better halfs handle your predicaments.  I mean are they sympathetic?  Do they just not have a clue?  Do they have problems as well? Do they choose to just not know?  I was just wondering what your situations are like. My husband is wonderful. He does not quite understand what is going on.  I take my meds for a legitamite reason.  I do other things to try and help with the chronic pain.  As I have said before Chiropractic, acupunture, meditation yada yada yada.  He understands that I am in pain.  But he does not quite understand why I am so obsessive with my meds.  Especially before vacations.  I give him my medicine to give me although he does not understand why.  Then about 12 hours after I give him my meds to keep and hide I am calling him at work to ask where they are.  I know he thinks I am WACKY but he got WACKY when he married me HAHA. What is your life like?
Sincerely,
Marcie.

P.S. Consider this an open thread. If you cant get in to start another one feel free to jump in.  This is not a crisis thread!
Have a good day all!

[sylvia c peacock]

I would like to get in with the chat room how do i do this?

[juan higgans]

replying on calling in phony meds ,,some people get away with it??????how is it done could someone inform me step by step,,,,thanks

[SA, M.D.]

No comment!

DrSteve

[Charlie to C]

Hey West Coast dude; how is life treating you these days?  From some of your previous posts, it sounds like you are having a hard time getting the kind of treatment you want to try.  I'm from the deep south (150 miles North of the Gulf coast and 50 miles East of the big river).  I have done some research in this area, and you can get a physician to set up the type of plan you have in mind; I find it hard to believe that, in this conservative region, we can get this,  and you, being from the liberal West coast, can't get a physician to cooperate.  I'm like you though; I would not come clean with my present physician and take the chance on being cut off until I had my plan well in place.  Have a great week-end and stay out of trouble.  I think I'm going to visit my buddy that lives in Redondo Beach in April - I really look forward to that trip.
Charlie

[Marryanne]

Hello Friends!  I ended up taking some more clonidine and baclofen last night because I started to "not feel so good".  Did not use any of the injectable buprenorphine yesterday.  I was at work last night and planning on going to an 8pm women's AA meeting when I got a phone call that my husband was in a car accident.  He is okay but in pain and now I'm sure he won't be quitting the pills anytime soon (which is okay by me and not a reason for me to use)  Strange thing when I was sitting in the emergency room last night - I was thinking about using (percs and vics) - I know this is because of 2 things (1) being in the ER is a trigger for me  (2) I missed my meeting (my lifeline and reinforcement of this disease.)  Woke up this morning and thanked God I didn't break down last night.  I went to two doctor's appts.  At one I found out I have a lump in my right breast (Doc wants further testing done) - which scares me.  I am 30 yrs old, but being a nurse, I've seen women diagnosed at 25 and 27 and dead by 32 - 33, so while I realize the chances are slim, I am aware of the possibilities.  I started to feel pretty bad about 2pm and took an injection of bup and also took the clonidine and baclofen.  Now I feel "normal"  I am almost into my 72nd hour and heard this is the worst of it.  I will get to a meeting at 5pm today.  I am generally feeling shitty and wondering why I ever did this to myself to begin with.  I watched my husband chew up two lorcets while I got him a glass of water and shivered just watching.  He is generally supportive but when he does things like this it makes me wonder.  I refuse to use just because he is. Truth is, I can get my hands on percs, lorcets or whatever whenever I want by just picking up the phone.  The people in my meetings tell me it is everywhere but that's not a reason to pick it up and they are right.  The choice is mine.  Today I am choosing not to use.  Tom,  I understand about work - I waited to go through this for months because I thought it would interfere with work and school (and it would have).  My offer stands to you anytime - just know that.
Anyway, I'm going into my A & R Chat.  Screen name FlowerChild11601@aol (reflects my recovery date).  I'm giving my name so any of you can email me if this forum gets cut off.  I tried to get on yesterday and it said "no such address" which scared me.  I wonder where Dr Steve has been - there are no answers posted to the above questions....Anyway, I'll keep you all posted.  God Bless, Maryanne

[tom to Maryanne]

so happy to hear how well it's working for you. I truly appreciate your offer but I'm a developer on a software project and litterally working night and day to get a product out for an IPO early this spring. Simply no way I can get off the train right now. I'm hoping the bup will be available in Cal by the time I'll have time to use it. But, really, I thank you for your offer and know it's genuine. All the best to you. Keep us posted!

[Joan to Maryanne]

First of all, congratulations on your sobriety. I think you are very brave and doing a wonderful job. Keep posting, because you set a great example for everyone else.
I just want to share a concern that I have. You mentioned earlier that as you are withdrawing, you sometimes think you could use occasionally in the future. I think you're doing the right thing by pushing those thought aside and taking things 'one day at a time.' But I also think you should keep those thoughts as a gentle warning signal. I used to think that getting sober was the hardest part of withdrawal (I'm a Vicodin addict). However, I learned the hard way that this is not the case. And I usually withdraw cold turkey.
The first time I went through withdrawal, I took a few Klonipin and had an 'okay' time. It was a rough haul, but not as bad as I expected. And then I found some Vicodin lying around, just waiting for me to pop them. In my mind, the withdrawal had been unpleasant, but not life-threatening or horrendous. So I took the Vicodin, thinking I could use with discretion. No way. I went through the same crazy cycle and was forced to quit again.
The second time I went through withdrawal, I drank a little. Not enough to get drunk or forget my pain, but enough to call it my 'coping mechanism.' That was the hardest part, because I hate the thought of replacing one addiction with another addiction. Eventually I got through the withdrawal, which was once again 'okay' (ie, not horrendous). And I felt really, really good. I stopped drinking and I took control of my life. I actually felt better than when I was high. What a surprise.
As you can probably guess, I started using again. Why, why, why? I was okay the first time I quit, very happy the second time--why did I go back for more pain and abuse? Basically, I thought I had the monster beaten. Since I didn't have a nightmare experience withdrawing, I thought I could dabble a bit. I thought I had the upper hand, control. The point I'm trying to make is that we all have the best intentions, and we all think we have a unique situation or special circumstances. But basically, we are all powerless when it comes to addiction. And powerless means that you have NO control. Once you've become addiction, you can't use responsibly. That's just an oxymoron.
And I think the end of your above post is quite telling. You thought the hard part was getting sober...however, you seem to be doing well. I know this isn't fun, but you're doing everything you need to do, and you're being good to yourself, too. Now, just imagine: you thought this was the hardest part...but it's not. You think staying sober is the easier part...maybe it's not.
I was deathly afraid to withdraw. And I thought that once I quit, the rest would be cake. But here I am, on my third relapse, and the one lesson I've learned is that the hardest part is not saying "no more" initially, but rather saying "no more" everyday of my life.
Again, congratulations. This was just food for thought...I think you're doing great.

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Well Tom, last night my shins ACHED SO BAD - that usually starts when I'm due for a dose of an opiate and since I am clean, I just got into my hot bathtub with this really cool Homedics Bath bubbler thing (very close to a real jacuzzi) - then took 2 baclofen and 1 clonidine just to make sure nothing happened to me (that's what the prescription label said to do) then I went to bed and slept like a baby.  I woke up at 5:30 to a loud noise outside and decided to get up.  Got on the computer to aol keyword "A & R CHAT" which lists addiction and recovery chats and online meetings and had some coffee.  Felt a little nauseaous upon wakening but it passed after an hour.  I decided not to take anymore pills/injects at this point because I really didn't feel bad.  Just very weird to not be high.  I should also mention that I attended 2 online AA meetings yesterday (one at 12 noon and one at 6pm) then went to a face to face AA meeting at 7pm last night.  I need to surround myself with this to keep believing that I can STAY sober.  Stupid little thing in the back of my head keeps saying that once I get by all this, I can use "occassionally" - I know this is not true.  I also know that this is ONE DAY AT A TIME so just for today I am going to be sober.  My husband is really excited and has decided to quit the tapering and just go the route I have taken.  He is also really proud of me and wants to be sober too.  I am crying right now because this is just SO amazing.  Tom, maybe I could arrange for u to stay with someone in my town for a few days and YOU could go to Dr Gooberman.  I would drive you.  This is a fantastic way to get off these.  And I have to say I WAS VERY SCARED  but you won't have a hard time - I didn't.  Anyone who is on them and wants to med detox should try the buprenorphine injection and clonidine/baclofen combo - it's a great way to go.  I hear everyone saying "the easy part is getting sober, hard part is staying sober" and I was thinking "NO, the HARD part for me is GETTING sober" but really, Tom, using this method was not hard at all.  My offer stands to u Tom, at any time, I will help u anyway I can.  I understand where you are and where you want to be.  I will keep you posted on my progress - today I took no injects, no pills, no anything and feel fine.  I will be waiting to hear from you my friends. God Bless, your friend, Maryanne

[tom to forum]

I'm curious about this baclofen Maryanne mentions. I know what rxlist.com says about it. But I wonder how they compare to the more commonly used muscle relaxants like Valium or Soma. Anyone used baclofen?

[tom to Maryanne]

bravo, Maryanne! Stay the course, if you can. I'm so proud of you!!
If it works for you that may help make up my mind about trying bup before I go on methadone maintenance. I know what you mean about feeling naked without the pills. Perhaps it would help just to have a few lorcets in your purse, not to temp you, but to give you some measure of security. I use a lot less Darvon and Xanax now at work, but I have this handy little screwtop blue bottle that fits in my shirt pocket or in my pants pocket with my car keys. I've got 30 Darvon and probably 40 Xanax in that bottle, but I only take a morning and afternoon dose consisting of 4 darvon and one Xanax each time (I know that sounds like a lot to some, but for me it's quite conservative). But just having them in my pocket actually lowers my anxiety level. Maybe something like that would work while you're following the bup process. I still can't believe I'm living in Sothern California and can't get this medicine here. I'd love to get a daily report from you, just tell us how you feel from one day to the next. I know you're going to make it.

[Brighty to JB]

Thank you for your words...I know you understand from the depths of your soul. I found much peace in what you said to me. It helped me through the last couple of days. Blessings to you and Marty. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Maryanne]

This is the beginning of your new life... congratulations !! I hope your post encourages others to go for the buprenex and get their lives back.... God bless you. And thank you for your kindness and sympathy at a time when I really needed it. Love, Brighty

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Thank you so much for your encouraging words.  I really cannot believe this....I did not take any opiates this morning and am still clean (it's almost 1 o'clock) - first time in over 2 years.  The bup is great.  If it wasn't for an old friend of mine (heroin addict) then I would have never known about Dr. L.G. and the fact that it's available.  can u believe my old friend starting taking heroin to get off pills?  Stupid, huh?  anyway, that's a whole other post *warning to all who read this DO NOT I REPEAT, DO NOT TAKE HEROIN TO GET OFF PILLS*  I am so grateful to be off these things for today. I am going to take it one day at a time just like u said.  I'm not worrying about tomorrow, just toady for now.  I will stay clean for today.  I haven't taken any clonidine or baclofen but have it in case - doc said I might not need it.  I have a headache right now but besides that and minor muscle aches, I'm feeling okay.  Thanks for your continued support!  Your friend, Maryanne

[BobK]

Maryanne  you made the second big move. If you follow the docs directions you will be just fine. Forget about withdrawl for now its gone. You know the old story one day at a time. You and I were very fortunate for the bup many people with far worse addictions than our own do not have the * of such a modern drug. When you are finished with the bup the worst part of your detox will be gone. I also deal with chronic pain. Im am very thankful that opiates no longer add to my situation. Jogging four miles a day is great. I wish you the best Bob K

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Well, Tom, woke up this morning and DID IT!  I didn't plan it, just said, "To hell with this".  I am scared, really don't know what to do with myself without them.  I felt like **** (usually do in the morning before popping my 1st dose).  Got in my car and drove to work.  Still feeling crappy, I sat down and made a decision.  I injected the bup sub - q (just under the skin) and sat there a minute.  After a little while, my nose stopped running and it's been almost 3 hours now and u know what?  I'm not in withdraw.  I can't believe it.  Only thing is, I'm not high - it's weird.  First time in over 2 years.  I've never not been in withdraw and not been high.  it's strange.  and different.  I don't know if I'm ready but I am doing it.  I am going to keep myself busy and just try.  Yes, I have chronic pain.  I've been seeing a massage therapist (who is very holistic) and keeps giving me tips to relieve my pain.  I have often gone to her Drunk and high on pills.  I'm sure she knows because I can tell by the way she speaks to me (very kind and suggesting that I "detox" myself from all the "impurities") and last time she made a list of herbs to pick up from the health food store.  Lost them but I am going to ask her again.  Body hurts A LITTLE.  I'm not used to FEELING ANYTHING, so this is weird.  I don't know what I'll do when the bad pain comes from my shoulder surgery and car accident.  It's not here right now and I will deal with it when the time comes.  It's important for me to stay away from alcohol (was treated for pancreatitis and in hosp for a few days back in 94) - didn't even know I was drinking too much - was a real eye opener.  Quite honestly, I wasn't drinking anymore than my husband and family but I also was eating very little and running 4 miles a day at the time - was in perfect shape - I thought!  anyway, that's another whole story.  I am scared Tom.  Very scared to be without my pills. And not sure I want to be - you understand, right? I went to an online meeting this morning because I am stuck at work for the rest of the day.  I have the clonidine and baclofen - doc said to take them as needed and told me to disregard the prescription instructions, he said, "Listen, take what u need, just stay clean"  I have to agree with you about the pellet, I'm cancelling the implantation appt I have.  Not ready to go there and don't like the idea of it.  Anyway, I will be waiting to here from you.  Take care, your friend, Maryanne

[tom to Maryanne]

I feel the same way about quitting -- imagine doing something for 30 years and then just stopping? The hardest thing in the world to do is to break a pattern of behavior, especially one that's co-driven by pain and re-enforced by opiate addiction. I have no illusions about what I'd do if my disk problems flared up as they sometimes can. If I'm ever in the kind of pain I was in before my back surgery, I won't hesitate to accept morphine or whatever they offer. I wouldn't care if it meant detox and the whole recovery thing again later. I don't want to be sober if sober means a life of agonizing pain. What's the value of that? I know with methadone maintenance you're still getting a pretty potent pain reliever on a daily basis. The bup cure leaves you pretty much on your own. I don't recall you saying too much about your pain situation. You probably did but my memory isn't the greatest. Are you still in chronic pain? If it's episodic pain you might be able to still do the bup detox and then have an AA buddy help supervise any meds you might need from time to time. I know people in AA that do that very thing and it works for them. Dan is on the meth maintenance and has still been able to use some lorcet (I believe he's posted that) a few times without interrupting his recovery. Hang in there. You'll know when the time's right to start the bup. I'm very leery of that nalaxone pellet thing. I flat won't do that, even if I took the bup cure. The doctor can't force you to accept the pellet. Just do the bup and tell him to forget that thing.
You're in charge here, Maryanne, not your doctor -- contrary to what I'm sure he wants you to believe.

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Well, I haven't started yet.  Yes, I know, crazy, huh?  I don't want to stop taking the meds yet.  Can't understand why last week I was SO ready and now that I have the stuff, it's just sitting in my med closet.  I know I want to stop, just not now.  Another thing is, what if tylenol doesn't work to take my pain away? (my disease talking as per my brother with 15 yrs sobriety) I was in a bad car accident and then had shoulder surgery 2 years ago and have had chronic pain ever since.    Anyway, I have off 2 days per week and I want to wait for my next day off to start, just in case I feel weird.  I don't want to be stuck at work and wanting to use - I can go to like 3 meetings my first day to keep me strong if I'm off.  Anyway, Tom, I am dissapointed in myself.  How can I feel SO strong one day and change my mind the next?  Now that push comes to shove, I am not ready to jump......I know I will eventually die if I don't stop, I mean, how much can the livers and kidneys take I am also SCARED to be 100% sober - why?  I do not know.  What if I can't handle it?  I just read what I wrote - sounds pretty pathetic but it is all true.  Your Friend, Maryanne

[tom to Maryanne]

well, how bout the buprenorphine? How's that going? How do you feel?

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Avery has passed on but he will never die as long as he is in your memories.  We should all be thankful for what life we have been given no matter how short or long of time!  His life touched yours in such a special way, Brighty.  I know that you will keep his spirit alive.  That's the best thing we can do for anybody.  Only God knows why these things are meant to be!

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

I am so sorry to hear about that!  What a shame.  I've heard of that happening before, people using crack or heroin the first time and dieing as a result.  I am so sorry.  He was put here for a reason - (maybe to save your daughter) - this may help keep Gina sober and he may have saved her life twice.  Try not to feel guilty about not making that phone call.  I didn't call my father (was supposed to) the night before he died and never got to speak to him again.  There is nothing one can do to change something like that.  Planting a tree is a wonderful idea.  Your family and Avery will be in my prayers.  And thank you for your encouraging words regarding my own addiction.   Your Friend, Maryanne

[Brighty... Avery was buried yesterday.]

My daughter learned yesterday that a friend of her's from Philadelphia died of a heroin overdose. Avery was just 19 years old and was buried yesterday. He has been friends with my son for a couple of years. When Gina deliberately overdosed on New Years Eve last year Avery broke down a door when she did not come out...he did not know what was wrong with her so he called her brother who raced her to the ER and her life was saved. Avery was there to help her. Avery was not a heroin user to the best knowledge of those who knew him best... but he became enamored recently with a girl who used... and he apparently had tried it,likely the first time.... and he went to sleep forever. We are still trying to understand the irony that he was able to help our daughter... but nobody was there for him. Gina is able to share her pain with her sponsor and her NA group... they are helping her through this.... better than her dad or I can. She is going to call Avery's dad and tell him that Avery saved her life and that he is an angel now. She wants us to plant a tree in our yard for Avery, and we will. I wanted to tell you this because you are my life line... I never called Avery and thanked him.... We moved 1500 miles away and I had been struggling with so much this past year... but my son was a good friend to Avery and always let him know how grateful he was about checking on his sister that night. Nobody knows why he would do something so stupid... he had never been known to do hard drugs... although I think he did smoke pot. I don't suppose I will be able to understand this... I can only accept it. I just really wanted to get this out and to ask each of you to say a prayer for Avery and his family, who are in total shock and utter pain right now. Thank you for your prayers. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Maryanne]

I don't think anyone can pick the right time for you... it may be that you have to work it out mentally and get comfortable with the idea for a bit longer....commitment to change is very hard and very scary. I can't imagine what this could be like for you... but I know you will make it. You have lots of prayers. Love, Brighty

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Hi all, some of us did not make it on Friday night but that's okay.  It was pretty cool to talk live - I usually go into "Friend's of Bill W" in the chat rooms and if you mention sobriety there, people will respond and a good chat will usually follow (FYI for anyone interested).  Anyway, I haven't started the Buprenex treatments yet.  I am scared.  I keep saying, what if I get really sick?  Maybe I am not ready?  I don't know.  Anyway, I am off 2 days every week and now I am waiting for my next day off (Thursday) to start just in case I have a weird reaction.  Is this just my disease talking?  There is comfort in knowing that I have the Buprenorphine, Clonidine and Baclofen that the doctor gave me for whenever I feel like getting off theses pain meds.  I can't understand why I was SO ready last week and now I'm stalling......God Bless, Maryanne

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, many years ago I smoked opium(more than once).  The first time was in the back of a taxi thanks to the driver.  You never forget the first time and I think that's where the phrase "chasing the dragon" comes from.  It's more of a halucinagenic high than say heroine or morphine.  After a while the smoke you exhale actually resembles a dragon(to me anyway). Opium is not so refined as the other opiates and being much cruder it probably contributes to the overall effects.  A long time ago I posted about growing poppies and everyone got a kick out of the suggestion!  Hell, it's just another plant like marijuana but oh so much more pleasurable until the bronchitis sets in he,he!  Take care Tom.  J.B.