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For those considering Weismann methos or other Rapid Detox...
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For those considering Weismann methos or other Rapid Detox...

Before I get into my story, please let me say this.....  I beg you to think long and hard about undergoing Weismann.

I had the Weismann procedure done at the Garden Grove, CA facility in 2006.  It was the most torturous thing I have ever gone through in my life.  I am not discrediting Weismann or other rapid detox companies themselves as I was taken very good care of rather the concept is the issue...

I underwent many blood tests EKG's medical history forms and whatnot two days prior to the procedure.  I was checked into the hospital the night before, and given a morphine drip to hold back wd's.  I guess they do this so they can monitor my drug intake for 24 hours prior.

I was taken down to the ICU at 0900.  I was given a mild sedative Versed while they made preparations....   I was inducted under anesthesia using propofol, and pancuronium, and another dose of Versed.  I was intubated, and then given the injections....  I woke up somewhere around 1400 and I felt like my heart had been ripped from my chest.... I felt just downright aweful.....

I was transported back to the medical observation unit where I was given clonidine, ativan, and zofran.... To help with any "Residual wd's" as they call them....

I was discharged with a script for Revia four days later.....

I was miserable throughout my hospital stay....  Much worse than any ct that I have ever gone through....  Hell I ct'd off fentanyl far mosr comfortably than this...

The days to come were much much worse.  I got home and All I could do was cry asking myself why I went through this miserable procedure.  I was vomiting uncontrollably, stomach upset, chills, sweating, the works.... just seemed to all be amplified from any ct I have done before.

The real ***** was the PAWS....  It was unbearable, depression was constant, from time to time I would get rebound wd's, flashbacks.... bad news.  

This went on for a year and a half and I finally sought help elsewhere....  I was diagnosed with Post traumatic stress disorder... believed to be brought on by the trauma my body underwent during rapid detox.

At the time I was in the medical field finishing my first year of Medical school.... I had tried NA, methadone, everything but I could never get through the wd stage.  Psychologically, I was ok.  I worked around the stuff all day, no cravings, but when those wd's came... damn. I mean still no cravings, but I just couldnt handle physically being sick like that with work and school.... Which is what brought me to Weismann....

I paid $14,600 for my treatment, and was left with misery.   Please think long and hard before doing this guys....  You will still be an addict after its over, just a sicker one.

Oh btw, the PTSD and PAWS I couldnt take so I ended up relapsing again... this started everything back up.  I am now on suboxone 1mg daily and decreasing.  No wd's, no cravings....  Things are good.  

Be careful everyone,
Henry
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34 Comments Post a Comment
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199177_tn?1332183097
Thank you for sharing that sounds awful .I am glad to came threw it !!!! No one should be put threw that.
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Avatar_m_tn
Well Im sorry you had such a dreadful experience. I actually just yesterday posted a question wondering about the Waismann Method itself, I got alot of bad stories and warnings about other rapid detox facilities, but never did hear from anyone with Waismann experience. I was looking into it for a friend that is way out of control, hes been thru many rehabs, clinics, counseling...tried c/t actually once. I know deep down he wants off all the drugs, unfortunately for him he doesnt have insurance, no job, and for some awful reason his family will not help him get onto suboxone. He has family members that stated to me they would pay for a procedure like yours, but since hes abused all medications in the past,their just over paying for him to get any pills of any type. Im really going to have try and make it clear to them that Waismann isnt going to be an option. I cant knowingly get my friend into the experience you described, Im truly sorry you had to go thru that. As for me Im currently on suboxone, have been for 53days, I just took 4mgs this morning. Im going to try and start taking only 2mgs in the morning, and then take little crumbs rest of the day kind of as needed, hopefully not needed and can just get by with the 2mgs. Yesterday I took a total of 7mgs because I felt I needed the energy cause I went golfing for the first time in many months. Im still prescribed 8mgs, but I want to accelerate my treatment so that I can be off before my 100th day, maybe sooner, or even if it does come later I will get there some way. Suboxone is a great tool to be utilized for opiate addiction, it remains controversial for many, but it really has helped me regulate my life. Im glad to hear your taking that low dose, it will only make it easier to stop, and hopefully less intense withdrawls that some experience. Man, I have to say yesterday I was frustrated that I couldnt get anyone who had your kind of experience, now I just wish no one has to go through that. I suppose all those people who just simply stated that rapid detox was not a good route were right, I kept saying yes I understand this, but is Waismann different because of the aftercare you recieve, but I got my answer now, and I almost wish I didnt. If you dont mind, what kind of suboxone plan are you on? Did you start at 1mg or have you tapered down? Ive been on like I said for 53days currently taking on average 6mgs, and Im looking for some advice as to how fast of a taper should I try? Anyways, sorry for the rambling, sorry for your experience, but know this, your post has most definetly saved my friend from going through the same thing, in thats any consolation. Good luck and God bless you...and continued success with your journey.
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Avatar_m_tn
Well I got my answrer pertaining to Waismann method...I feel so bad for Henry for having to endure such a thing...I was really hoping with all their claims of healing, and intensive care that their experience would differ from those of traditional rapid detoxes, but obviously there really isnt too much of a difference. I only wish I could've recieved this info without having someone suffer in return. Thank you both for your help.
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Avatar_m_tn
Wow, i am so sorry that you had such a horrible experience. I too looked into that method but couldn't find anyone that had experienced it to ask.
Your post is going to help quite a few who are looking that way. I looked at how much money it all was going to cost and instead took some time off of working (like 6 months) and quit at home with a long taper.
The suboxone has worked great for some people. It seems that is just hard to find a good doctor to perscribe it correctly. I have heard that it only takes a few weeks and than you are off it. Good luck to you and glad that you are finally feeling better.
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199177_tn?1332183097
I had heard about Waismann method and someone told me they thought they would be closing soon but for the life of me I could not remember who. I thought maybe nauty she lives right in that area but she would have PMed me back if it had been her.I just hate giving half info if I am 100% not sure .Now you know I wish there was a way to wd without suffering and maybe someday there will it just doesn't look like this is it .
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401095_tn?1351395370
geez...thanx for sharing
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229538_tn?1300381367
My God ! You wonder if such facilities care about patients
or money .  What a drag . really sorry you went threw all that and out 14 grand !   Take care Jim
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644595_tn?1278046948
Henry,
My question to you - were you ready to let go of the opiates, really? I know someone who went through the procedure and is doing excellent. Most people who are blessed enough to be able to recieve this kind of treatment seem so greateful. I've looked on their website and read their testomonials. It seems amazing. Where did they go wrong, or were you not ready to let the opiates go? Suboxone is still an opiate, you know that right? Either way, sorry to hear about your story and I hope that someday soon you'll be able to get off the Suboxone too.
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Avatar_f_tn
I too looked into this, before finding out that is was around $14,000, of course.  I found a story on the internet that was a similar horrible experience.  This person said that during the procedure, they could literally FEEL their pleasure receptors being cleaned out.  That what rapid detox does, it cleans the receptors that drugs bind to, to get them out of your system right away.  But by doing that, it also leaves you bereft of ANYTHING in these receptors.  This causes depression and misery.  It's just crazy that facilities like this are licensed to perform something like this.  (Or are they?)  And if people can do this, why not brain surgery to treat the part of the brain responsible for addiction?  That at least sound like it could work!!!
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569676_tn?1315644758
Please re read my post very carefully.....

I made it very clear that Weismann treated me the best they could.  That the problem was not the treatment I received its the concept of the procedure itself.

When you are given high doses of Naloxone IV like another poster said, it can not distinguish between foreign and endogenous opiates... Which brought on severe boughts of depression.

I was very ready to give up opiates, as I dont know many people that would shell out that kind of cash if they werent.  The reason i relapsed was due to the chronic depression that no anti depressants or counseling which I sought out helped.  I was missing school, rotations, and on the verge of failing out of medical school.

None of that was any excuse to use, and I want to make that very clear.  My relapse consisted of a one time ordeal, one use.  I realized I was in danger, which took me to suboxone.

I am very well aware that Suboxone is an opiate.  And if I need to use that as a tool in my recovery, then I am just fine with that.  As I said in my post I am currently taking 1mg daily and decreasing.  If you read other posts here, that is a way less than average dosage of Buprenorphine which averages between 8 and 24mgs for the majority.

Suboxone not only reduces cravings (Which I stated I do not have at this point) but it allows and aides the brain to repair its neurotransmitter and endorphin system.  Something that we as drug addicts have damaged and chemically altered.  This takes time, and While its repairing, thats when we get the depression, the cravings, the urges.  We usually give in to that, starting the process all over again, never giving our brains time to heal.

Suboxone combined with counseling halts that.  After some time the brain is back on track and you can then begin to taper off the suboxone and not have to worry AS MUCH.

Please do some more research on the Indications and usage of Suboxone.  If I can help in anyway, please send me a message.

Thank you for your reply and concern.

Henry
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199177_tn?1332183097
We have a poster that just had it done two weeks ago she is feeling awful.It cost her 10,000 to feel bad . I would be very lery about this method
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Avatar_f_tn
Henry, don't waste your breath on the naysayers, and you don't have to defend yourself to us.  The people who are "blessed" to have received the rapid detox treatment, and have come out okay, are extremely lucky.  Also, the testimonials on ANY website that promotes a particular company are ALWAYS positive.  Everyone knows this.  For example, you will not find on Proactive's website anyone saying, "I hated this cream, it s*cked for me."  The same goes for the Suboxone website.  Of course they are all positive, it is a website to promote their item.  The people who went through rapid detox should sue for their thousands of dollars back, as it is physically impossible to "clean out" receptors without also getting rid of the positive chemicals that your body needs to function.  Lets continue to help each other on this site by giving advice, and not by judging people's choices.
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Avatar_n_tn
Hi All. I am currently thinking of doing the rapid detox procedure at floridadetox. I have read many horror stories and many great stories.I believe it is almost a luck of the draw as to who suffers and who doesnt.Each individuals body reponds differently to every drug and procedure.I too cannot do the slow detox.I do not have the strength both physically nor mentally to do that.I cant imagine what Henry went through.the suffering after wanting to end his addiction.It horrifies me.I am so very ready to stop this addiction.I am tired of taking these pills and want my life back.its just the withdrawl (withdrawal) that I cannot handle.
I wonder if there is something in particular in a bodies chemical makeup that will indicate one will respond to the treatment the way Henry did.So many great experiences and so many bad ones.So confused..
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Avatar_m_tn
I think Henry understands this, but those who read his story likely will not. There is nothing wrong or evil about the Waismann method, and indeed it seems to be the best option in the EXPERIMENTAL field of rapid detox.

In any treatment, a certain percentage of recipients will always yield worse results than others. Short of death, I don't know that Henry could have gotten worse results. Horrible debilitating depression and pain, and then a chronic mental condition ultimately resulted in a relapse back into what he was trying to treat. But did he get what he paid for? Yes.

Because what he paid for was a statistic, not a cure. Indeed most legitimate medical treatments run a notable risk of adverse reaction, complication, side-effect, addiction, or death. Should Anesthesia be condemned because the families of the minimal percent who died have a sad story to tell? Are X-rays, radiation treatment, and various brain scans evil because they can mess with cell structure and cause cancer? Should we sue the doctor when a surgical wound get infected, or transplanted tissue happens to carry an STD despite all caution on their part to avoid such circumstances?

I'll leave the answer to you, because it always is a matter of opinion and risk assessment, and not all of it is as clean cut as a success percentage. Aside from professing only about a 2/3 success rate, Waismann's rapid detox is an EXPERIMENTAL procedure. They can pad their statistics all they want, but in the end, all the information is available to decide whether such a procedure (and all the risks associated with it) is WORTH it to YOU.

The Waismann method did everything it could for you, and that ended up severely damaging you. You, who have now pretty much managed to ween yourself off your addiction with Suboxone. It all seems very sad and pointless, and if there is anything wrong with the Waismann method, it is the way they condemn drug replacement and misconstrue information about it on their site.

All said and done though, it is my unprofessional opinion that rapid detox is the future of physical dependence treatment. As a better understanding is made of both the brain and these chemicals, experimental clinics will come into existence that dwarf Waismann in efficiency. But this progress will not be made if we point hateful fingers at our pioneers.
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Avatar_f_tn
What a terrible experience, Henry.  I saw a program on this not too long ago.  And, naturally, they didn't show anything that looked too bad, but there was something really creepy watching this young woman getting this rapid detox and having what looked like seizures and whole body twitching and groaning.  It just didn't sit right with me.  I missed the end of it, but somehow I don't think they did anything more than an immediate interview with the woman after.  I'm not certain about that but I really don't think they did any kind of longer term post-detox review.

I guess just like most everything else if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
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Avatar_m_tn
WOW good info , but sorry you had it rough , thats terrible.....but you made it out ok?
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569676_tn?1315644758
Wow,

I was kind of shocked to see this post pop up again after so long!

It has come to my attention that the Waismann centers have been closed down now?

Interesting...  Again though I would like to reiterate what one poster said... I got what I paid for. A quick detox.  Albeit not painless, nor successfull for ME, but I walked out of there detoxed.

I also agree that this is the future of addiction medicine.  Now that it can be classified as a disease, they are aiming at fixing the disease not the person.

I dont necessarily regret having waismann done, but only because I have learned a lot since that fateful day. But in the same breath I could not in good faith reccomend this procedure to anyone.

As an  update, I left the medical field and now fly as an International Flight attendant for the military.  I stopped my sub taper in '08 and went back up as I was having some problems with it, but IM happy to say that today I am on my 7th day free of suboxone.  Hasnt been easy, but its been worth it!

HS
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1421717_tn?1282498437
Henry,
I am sorry you suffered so greatly. My father just phoned me telling me about rapid detox. I have been on Methadone for 10 years, which has arrested my development. I have been tapering off because I want to switch to suboxon but its almost impossible to switch. Can you provide me any advise on switching over. I am on a daily dose of 20 miligrams of methadone. I used to be on 100 mgs but I managed to ween all the way down to 20. Now I am in a state of constant but minor withdrawals. Should I continue to tapper slowly of methadone or make the switch to suboxon and suffer the withdrawal.
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569676_tn?1315644758
Hey Hun,

Congrats on your taper! I know how difficult that can be, you have done very well!

I was on methadone for over 7 years at high doses usually maintained at about 425mgs daily.

Personally had I not switched to suboxone I would still be on methadone today. Sub withdrawals are tough, but nothing compared to my methadone Wes

I am out running around and sending from my iPad, hence the typos. I will be sure to message you all the info you could want later on tonight when I get home and can focus on an accurate message for you!

Head over to naabt.org in the mean time for lots of info on sub.  You are at a good dose to invert to! Are you planning on doing this wi a docs help?

Henry
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990521_tn?1311909908
Hi Henry,

I know that this is an old post, but I was mortified at your experience.  I did an accelerated detox that was over the course of 8 days - for suboxone - and it was not nearly as bad - but it still was difficult and took about 5 weeks for me to come around.  Glad you are in much better shape now.
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Avatar_n_tn
I am not sure what you all are talking about . I just witness someone going through the Waismann Method and they are doing wonderful. And after visiting the after care Domus , it was pretty amazing to see how many people were doing so well and gratefull for being able to go through withdrawal with out crawling the walls.
Everyone react different to life experiences , specially medical ones. If you ask people how they felt after a root canal from the same dentist , you will hear horrble and great.
I belive that having people withdrawing while under doctors supervison is so much safer and comfortable then at home or in the rehab.
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401095_tn?1351395370
Physical wd is not the hard part of stopping narcotics
It is not dangerous either as a rule unless u have a sever heart condition etc
If someone can afford this, then perhaps it is to somes advantage to do so
I personally, have not heard many good stories, but a couple. of positive ones...then they got home and mental wd hit them and the fun and fantastic experience was over.
as a rule this is expensive as heck....my physical wd lasted 3-4 days and the symptoms were mild altho I was imagining writhing on the floor and throwing up for days!
it was the aftermath that hit me hard....and is what causes relapse....aftercare is helping as u say this person is attempting aftercare.  The ones i have spoken with who did this method were sent home with no aftercare at all.....Even with aftercare, relapse is possible, very possible, just a better chance of avoiding it with aftercare.


I am glad ur friend is doing well....it is just not the rule as physical wd is not the hardship of getting clean and definitely not the hardship of staying clean...it is the mental portion of addiction that will burn an addict everytime
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569676_tn?1315644758
Wow,

Kind of crazy to see this old post surface again!

You are absolutely right my friend in that the experience is quite subjective to the individual! There are still many questions as to what actually happens once you go behind those doors of the ICU for a UROD procedure.  My only goal was to tell of my experience... which is why I urged people to do their homework.

To be honest withdrawal period is subjective.  Take for instance the horror stories that one often reads regarding suboxone treatment and withdrawal.  My suboxone experience was quite a positive one, to the point I would do it all over again if I ever felt like I was veering off the track of recovery.

Thanks for posting, Im glad to hear that there are those out there that had a positive experience with UROD! As I wouldnt wish the hell I endured on my worst enemy... I take that back... Its EXACTLY what I would wish on my worst enemy! LOL

Hope you had a happy holiday.

Henry
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569676_tn?1315644758
You pointed out another one of my points in originally writing this post.

And thats that even if weismann or any other detox method was completely painless.... we are all still left as addicts.  Without learning the tools to live daily life, we will fall back.

I received no aftercare with UROD, nor did I seek it out.  The theory was that the oral revia that I was prescribed would be enough of a second line of defense.  Looking back... a second line of defense for a just in case scenario is no longer an option as this is my life.  

I learned that lesson hard with my UROD experience, and again the first time I tried to come off suboxone.  It wasnt until I went back and did things right that I can say that I have 194 Clean days today!

Thanks for pointing that out!

Henry
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Avatar_n_tn
The Weismann scam is just another "Hollywood Cure" ... it has more or less been roundly discredited by addiction experts, and, gee, it sure costs a lot.

And you wake up opiate-free, never to consider that you can play the same old game and "Weismann" yourself back out ... hucksters and thieves.

Not to suggest that other in-patient treatments don't help (you have to find somewhere that softens the suffering, but there will be some suffering, under medical supervision); but "rapid detox" ain't it ....

Bet those folks live nice lives, what with the cost they inflict on the desperate ...
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Avatar_n_tn
This I'd how my paint Mgt gets their people off.  Or something close to this.  
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Avatar_m_tn
OK... we are now in Oct, 2011. I am looking into this method. It has been what four years now since your experience. Can you bring me up to speed, or anyone who has recently gone through this method?

I have been on V 750's for 7 years due to an accident in 2004. Now, I want out. I am tired of feeling like this. I don't use it for sport, I use it for pain and at this point I would rather deal with the back pain than the withdrawal pain of which has kept me laced into taking it.

I don't know what to do.

I don't know where to go get help and trying to do this myself is not working. I don't know what I am doing.

Being that said, anyone recently go through this method and have a success story. Maybe now four years later they have refined it. Also, I know there are others out there, but I would NOT use anyone others except the Waismann Method. The other methods do the procedure then you go off to either a hotel room or home which is completely non responsible of the treatment center offering this treatment.

Thank you......

Someone write me please...
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Avatar_m_tn
wisman was 20 grand 2yrs ago save your mony detoxing is no worst then 4 days of the flu it is always worst in your head then it turns out to be in the 2+ yrs I have been on this forum I have only heard 1 good thing about wisman and im fairly certain it was a salesman most of the people say they where still sick after the procedure this is tyipical for narcotic detox it takes a little wile to feel good again rapid detox dosent work..............Gnarly
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Avatar_m_tn
I think a definative statement that rapid detox doesnt work is somewhat misleading, especially as my own experiences contradict that assertion. Perhaps it didnt work for you, in which case im sorry, but The Waismann method worked for me. I dont say its guarenteed, but a success rate of ( i seem to remember) 65% still clean after one year would seem indicative of working more often than not.
   You are right about one thing though, i was still sick afterwards. But having minor physical discomfort ( weakness, bowel irritation) for a day or so afterwards as opposed to the sickness i had for years before really doesnt compare. My opinion is based on my own experience and as such, as far as im concerned, is irrefutable.
I was dependent on painkillers and suboxone for about seven years, i did the procedure 4 1/2 years ago and have been clean and happy since.  feel free to draw your own conclusions.
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Avatar_n_tn
My son did the rapid detox recently (June 2012). It is not what it is described to be. There is value in it, but it is NOT a pain/discomfort free detox at all. This is what they do. They put you on a morphine drip as soon as possible after you arrive (in order to delay withdrawal). Then they do some testing to make sure you can handle the anesthetic. The morphine drip remains for almost the entire first day. You sleep over night, then the next day they administer what they describe as a light sedative that knocks you out. While you are asleep they administer a high dose of naltrexone and a high dose of clonidine and a high dose of seroquel...intravenously.

According to most posts about opiate WD, it lasts about 72-96 hours. And the peak is from 48-72 hours. So...they give you enough naltroxone to detox you quickly, but they drop you (take you out of sedation) at about 65-72 hours. So you wake up at the peak of WD. That's the bad news. The good news is you do not experience a WD that is constantly getting worse. You experience a WD that is absolutely horrible, but gets better constantly. Also the WD is much shorter (24 to 36 hours).

There were four people who transferred from the hospital to the recovery (rehab) after the rapid detox. Not one of them experienced a pain/discomfort free detox. ALL were quite sick after the rapid detox. It's difficult to know how much of the pain/sickness is from WD and how much is from the after effects of the anesthetic. My son had hallucinations from the high dose naltrexone. He was in severe WD pain/anxiety for almost 48 hours. They had to have a diaper on them for a while after the anesthetic.

This was our experience with the rapid detox in Los Angeles. The patient care once you are transferred from the hospital to the rehab centre declines. Although the staff at the rehab take very good care of you, the doctoral care diminishes and you might not even be given clonidine, because according to them "you are not experiencing a painful detox." The doctors are in denial about the amount of pain and discomfort the patients have, as it contradicts their claim of a pain free WD.

If you can't get through a 96 hour WD, and this is the only way you think you can do it, then go for it. Although anyone's claim of a pain free/easy WD is a delusion. There is still value in this, since it is the ONLY way some people can get through it. I believe this WAS the only way to get my son through it. But expect pain, expect anxiety, expect to wear a diaper, expect the doctors to ignore your pain/anxiety. But hang in there for the 36 hours and get through it. Nothing else worked for my son BUT THIS. But know it does not work as described.

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Avatar_m_tn
I just completed the weisman method in LA California with doctor cliford Bernstein. I was on 160mg of liquid methadone IV from my local methadone clinc, and was shooting Oxycodone 30mg IR by the hand full. So I was an heavy opiate user in deed.. I flew a diract flight from nashville tenn. to LAX airport, aprox 3hour and 50 min flight. When I arrive a limo driver picked me up from the air port and drove me to Chapman Medical Center and as soon as I was admitted they put me on a morphine pump that I could control with by button to keep the withdraws away. The next morning I was taken to the ICU and given 3mg of xanax and 50 mg of  SEROQUEL and put under anesthesia. Gave me an high dose of Naltrexone woke up around 20 hours later feeling kinda crappy but any one who is put under is not going to feel like a million dollars when they come out.. After it was all said and done they put me back in my room. WARNING if you think you have gas, It is NOT gas my friend. They pump bout 5 bags of saline in you and it has to come out some where.  After I was awake enough they took me to the Domus Retreat witch is pretty much a mansion. The first day I slept and didnt come out of my room. The second day I was feeling so so.. but the entire time they were giving me meds for my stomach, xanax 0.5mg to help with sleep and more seroquel and a few other light drugs to help with the discomfort. and of course Naltrexone By day 3 I was golden still a little bit of loose stool but not one withdraw symptom.. I exp slight fatigue.. The rest of the time I was fine. I enjoyed in house acupuncture, massage and yoga. We had our own chief and all the amenity of home.. My exp was awesome and Its had been 4 days sense i was was detoxed. and I was back to 100%.. I was there a total of 10 days and it was the BEST 22K I ever spent! If you are on methadone I think this is your best option considering how long acting it is. I've been home now for 3 days and im feeling awesome and my energy level is back to normal. 4/25/2013
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Avatar_m_tn
Sorry for the typos, friends lol btw i am 29 and i was dependent for 6 years before I did this.
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Avatar_f_tn
Glad you could afford a very awesome personal experience!
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Avatar_f_tn
My son really wants to give the rapid detox a go and we have looked at what we be closest for us and have found 2 in Detroit, Michigan.  Has anyone heard of Clarity  or MDS clinics in Detroit, Michigan.

He has tried everything to detox off of methadone!

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