Heavy Fentanyl W/D? Suboxone the answer? Desperate!!

I've been on Fentanyl for several years (2) and am growing increasingly tired of it. The problem is that I'm really, really dependant and it doesn't last me the 2 days that it is supposed to, so every other day I jones for it and have w/d symptoms. Literally...w/d every second day of my life, it's miserable.

I live with my girl of 6 years and want nothing more then to be normal again. I want to be like I used to, not htinking about or worrying about the patches, losing one or running out, how sick I get, whether I can even make plans for the second day? I can't do anything on day 2 because I'm so sick, so that's a horrible way to live.

I have a really bad spinal injury that causes a lot of pain, so they got me on 3 Vic's, Neurontin and 1 50 mcg Fentanyl each day. When I put on a patch after about 2 hours I feel GREAT! Energy, motivation, happy, awake..just fine. The problem is that day 2 is the exact opposite.

I decided to go cold turkey one time and on the 1st day without one (3 days after putting it on), I got hugely sick..worst pain, agitation, anxiety, jones, flu..just  the worst thing I could imagine.

So, I want off, my psych is one of the local Bupropenephrine (sp) specialists, so I took that as a sign .

But, I have some questions:

1) How much does it help with the w/d's? Should I expect just some help or a lot with the w/d pain, sickness, jones etc?

2) Am I just going to develop a dependancy on the Sub's?

3) How long until I feel normal again.

Thank you so much for any and all help, honesty and advice. Certainly don't need compassion, just some help.

I can't live like this and need some help. I'm hoping Sub's are the miracle/hope I need.

[FLaddict]

How many mcg's of fentynal are you on?? You may have to taper down before switching to SUB.. it does not work well for high doses. Talk to your doc about that.. we have some great people here that are also on the patch and trying to come off of it.. so hopefully they will see your post and be able to offer first hand experience.. what I know of it I learned on here from the others.. have you checked out the site for the SUB?? suboxone.com   lots of info on it and how you make the switch..

Welcome to the site..
Stephanie

[LoginNeedInfo]

Thank you first for the prompt response.

I should have been a bit more thorough in my post.

I'm on 1 50 mcg patch once every other day. First day is great, feel top of the world. Second day is miserable, w/d on day two. So I'm either that heavily addicted or it metabolizes VERY fast with me. Maybe both.

I actually put a 50mcg on on Saturday so I was due today. I cut it in half and put half on this a/m. I feel OK, not great, not 100%, but tolerable. But, tomorrow may be miserable. But, it's a start. Supposed to start the Sub treatment on Wednesday so I figured if I can go to 25mcg today (half) for a day or two it may help with the Sub treatment.

I've read some stories of people getting really sick going ON Sub's, should there be anything I should watch out for, be mindful of or expect?

Thanks again, I can't even begin to tell you all how happy I am to have found a place with some likeminded people who may be able to relate to this.

I haven't checked out the other site, are there forums there? I have done a lot of reading but really the only good info is from experience, so I though this was a better place for real life experience then anything.

Addiction is a very, very, very lonely place, but the worst part is that being alone through this is even worse .

[ethereal1]

Suboxone (buprenorphine) should work wonders for you.

1. depending on the dose, it should take away the craving, pain, sickness, etc. i believe that the upper limit is 24mg per day. users do report getting 'high' for the first few days of use, but that seems to go away as your body stabilizes on it.

2. it is possible to develop dependence on any opiate. Suboxone is usually tapered down over a short time period so that this doesn't happen.

3. Suboxone will make you feel normal once you are past the 'induction' phase. you will start taking Suboxone when your withdrawals are at their worst, not before.

there is a ton of information out there on bupe. Google it. your questions should be covered in detail in the FAQ section.

be well.

[FLaddict]

You will need to be in full WD before starting the SUB. depends on the doc but generally 12-24 hours without any opiates in your system... not sure how that works with the patch?? Good ? for your doc. If taken before you are in WD it can make you very sick.. also have someone drive you.. the first day from what i understand can cause some dizziness. I have also heard of people say they got sick cause their doc started them on too high of a dose of SUB.
I have heard others say their patches didn't last the full 2 days because they were rolling on them in their sleep and making more of the med go into their system.. maybe thats the case with you..

[LoginNeedInfo]

Thank you as well.

I am over being high. I just want my life back. The thing was, and this is what makes me the most upset, is that I never asked for this. I have done a lot of drugs, even the worst of the worst and walked away from it. Had I developped a problem with that, i could at least blame myself. But, I have an injury I can't help and now I'm on doctor rx'ed meds I was taking as prescribed...now I'm worse then before.

I just can't handle the sick, the anxiety and all that, just can't deal with it.

So let me ask, when I take it, should I expect it to kick in and help out fast? How do I know when is the right time to take it?

How much should it (ideally) help with the symptoms?

THANK YOU ALL VERY, VERY MUCH!!!!

I'd love all the help, info and advice I could get.

[FLaddict]

call your doc asap to find out when you should take your patch off..like i said before you will need to be in full Wd with out any fentanyl in your system to start the SUB.. if started while not in WD you will get very sick... I can't urge you enough on this..
they give it to you at the office.. it goes under your tongue and disolves.. they wait and check you out.. maybe adjust your dose. some people experience a fuzzy feeling until their dose gets adjusted.. some nausea..
the most important part is to be in WD when you go to the doc.. so call him and check out the site   suboxone.com  they walk you throuhg the whole thing.. i gotta go be back later today.. I will check in with you then... Call your doc asap!!!!!!

Stephanie

[LoginNeedInfo]

Thank you again for the info.

I am due Wednesday and will be seeing my doc then to get started with the Sub's.

I'm just hoping this is going to help a lot with the W/D's. I can't handle that sh!t again, no way. I really hope it helps a lot too, not just a little.

[htp115]

try to start on the lowest dose possible. i'm on the subox and it's the best thing i've ever done. i felt "normal" from day 1. just dont let the dr give you to high of a dose. its a pill that dissolves under your tongue, but it can be split. i take a 2mg tablet and break it down to 1/2 and 1/4.  i took only 5 mgs the first day. i think its better to under dose the subox, and take more if you need to. then to take to much cause it can make you sick. you will feel better in about 20 min and by 2hrs you will feel completely normal. there's really no other way to explain it. i've been on a high dose of hydrocodne and percocet for 5 yrs and this is the 1st time i have felt "normal" in 5 yrs. talk to your dr. about it. just remember you have to taper off of suboxone, so the smaller dosage you start at the less you'll have to taper from. i expected to have some w/d's on such a low dose, but havent experienced any yet.  good luck.

[Gypsygirl66]

I am on suboxone, it didn't work well for me through the beginning w/d  however I was on ten-fifteen x"s the amount of meds aday that you are and I was on an extendend release med. So I was prepared. My doc's told me I would experienc full blown w/d even though I was on suboxone. I am now on day fourteen and I can tell that the Sub is working. The max dose is 36mg a day although I doubt you will require that high a dose. It should work for you. There is a person on this forum that is on Sub. who can is closer to range of meds you take a day. I will have her look for you post and respond to it when I see her. You are doing the right thing. I too have many chronic pain issues, but living on pain meds is just not living. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. God Bless

[LoginNeedInfo]

I can't even begin to tell you all how much the good vibes and similar stories help. It's a strange place to be, you know?

I walk around, watch TV or whatever and all I think is, "I bet it's great to be them, not thinkin' about meds, w/d, doctors, pain and everything everyday."

The fact is that outside of places like this, noone knows the hell it can be.

On top of that I'm just a weak person mentally. I've got really serious depression and anxiety, been hospitalized for both, so the anxiety that comes with w/d is very dangerous for me. Panic attacks, "dangerous" thoughts, and just wanna die from the sickness. So hopefully this is the miracle I need.

My problem is that for the past year I have been going through W/D every other day..literally. I realized it's because I clean the area I put it on and it irritates the skin. So, I put the patch over an irritated area so it seeps into the blood MUCH faster. I feel great quick but day 2...forget about it. If I put a patch on on Day 2, the doc's ain't gonna give me more so I run out early and then I'm in DEEP trouble.

SIGN - I heard a guy named Artie on the radio (Stern show) talking about Heroin w/d and that he got on Sub's. Got me doing some research. I checked and there were 6 doctors in an ENORMOUS region who rx'ed it, one was within a mile from me. I CHECKED WHO HE WAS AND IT WAS MY PSYCH!!

How great is that?!! I took it as a sign.

Thanks again and please keep providing ur insights and info.

SORRY FOR ALL THE LONG POSTS, JUST GOOD TO FIND PEOPLE TO TALK TO WHO KNOW...

AS WELL, MY BEST VIBES AND THOUGHTS TO EVERYONE ELSE GOING THROUGH THIS.

[manonfire]

I can say that I did it c/t a cuople years ago off 100's. I was sick as a dog for 2 months. Lost about 45lbs, and I was MISERABLE. Take the sub, take all ity will give you as far as help, cuz there ain't any better way to get off them. I cycle my 25's every 2 days and i make that work. Sometimes I need that 3rd day used up patch for psycholigical help thru w/d's. but I'm making it with a 48 hoour rotation. DO NOT CUT DURAGESIC brand patch. The ones with gel inside. YOU CAN DIE. So don't do that! There are some patches without the gel that I guess you can cut, but I'd sure as hell ask the doc 1st. I have a Sandoz brand generic of Duragesic that has the gel. I've used both, and I think u may be on the non-gel ones. I didn't get more than a day off those pieces of **** either. Try to get on gel, if you are going to stay.  BUT DON'T CUT THOSE!!! Better to get off completely if you are able. Good luck, I'll be here after 29 days of w/d's from the transmucousal Actiq lozenges, I feel ok on just the smal patch now. That is all I want, to just feel "ok"

[Gypsygirl66]

I used to be on the patch so I know what your saying when you put the patch over the irritated area. have you tried putting in on a clean new area, if so what happens? I really hope you follow through, and come off this ****. I understand about the panick attacks also. let me know. Stay strong hun, your on the right road. You just have to keep going. We will all be here to support you. I am here for you. God Bless

[Gypsygirl66]

I was stopped the patch a few mos after they put me on it years ago at two hundredmcg ( I have no one or two key on my keyboard, so excuse)fourteen days ago I stopped taking one thousand mgs MScontin and 60mgs methadone I was on fifteen hundred mg MScontin Iweaned down to a thoudand over the past year. This was all prescribed to me by my pain management doc. I have been on them for several years and have built up a huge tolerance.

[LoginNeedInfo]

Thank you.

I'm glad you can relate.

If I don't put it over the irritated area, say I just put it over a totally dry area, it doesn't work well at all. I figured it was because the other areas are very dry or oily or something so it wasn't able to do it's job. But, no I realize that it was doing it's job and putting it over the irritated area is basically just hyper-tox of the med.

As far as the Sub's, should I expect to be pretty sick with w/d's or not much at all (none? ?

[Gypsygirl66]

first did you see my other post above your last, and I dont what you should expect, I have a friend on this board who did whatt I consider really well on Sub. I would say that you are going to do simular to her when I talk to her I will have her resopnd to this post and seek you out.

[LoginNeedInfo]

yeah, i think i read them all.

i think to tell you the truth i'm looking for answers that people can't give...you know..specifics.

thanks again.

that and i'm just glad to be able to bullsh$t about this bullsh$t.

i did some pretty heavy duty **** for a while...well...some really heavy **** and never had a problem.

strange that the biggest problem i've had with dependancy was when following doctor's orders.

*rolling eyes*

if you could see if your friend could respond, i'd greatly appreciate it.

So, let me ask this, when I do go on Sub's, it's NO MORE OPIATES AT ALL, right?

[Gypsygirl66]

Yeah, Subox has narcan in it you cant take other opiates with it

[Gypsygirl66]

I will have my friend respond I have to get up and move around my joints ar really hurting. I will be looking for you. Stay strong and keep in touch, if you see my name and want to chat just grab me. TTYL Gypsy. Good Luck

[LoginNeedInfo]

jufst got back and read this, gonna read thre other posts to me above in the forums.
thank u for all your help and support.

starts in 2 days...i'm very hopeful. and i will be sure to follow up to tell my sub story...hopefully a success!!

[LoginNeedInfo]

Gypsygrl - 10 - 15X of what I'm on??? That's the equivalent of 10 - 15 50 mcg patches a day, can anyone really even take that much and live? 50 is a fair amount, even once every day.

Wow.

Fentanyl is a long acting, extended release med.

[LadySundown]

I was put on 100mcg fentanyl pain patch post op. It says right on the box not to use for post op pain! My surgeon and family dr. didn't put me on it. I was in rehab PT right after the last of my four hour surgeries and a nurse practitioner put me on them. I don't hate because it only destroys the vessel it's carried in BUT I make an exception when it comes to that nurse.
I was on it for a year and a half and my family dr. has been kind enough to help me get off the patch. The slow taper is working for me. I was started on 100mcg's and when I went down to 75 there wasn't much w/d. When I went from 75 to 50 things got a little nasty. Then from 50 to a 25 plus a 12=37mcg and it wasn't too bad. Now I'm wearing two 12mcg's because they stick so much better. I have always worn them on my upper back, but that only works if you have someone to put them on for you. I have now reached the point that my poor back is just plain used up. I have to find another place for them. Hopefully, I will go down to just a 12mcg patch soon and then to nothing. That part scares me. I have to thank manonfire for keeping me from making a huge mistake. I was going to use the actiq lollipops to finish my taper when I was done with the patches. I have learned they are very addictive. I won't be taking any pain meds because I'm not in pain.
PLEASE listen to manonfire about cutting the patch and read up on all the precautions you need to know about them.
Best of luck and take care. We are here for you......LS