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Heroin Addiction
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Heroin Addiction

My daughter is addicted to heroin and is still in denial, which only makes things worse.  But, does anyone know what I can do to help her with her denial and if not, when she does come out of denial, what does anyone know about the withdrawals of that?  I'm hearing that it is not much different than what we are going through as far as withdrawals from opiates.....Any suggestions?  Anyone have any knowledge regarding this?  I'm scared to death for her and don't know what to do.
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Avatar_f_tn
I think INSIDE herself she knows she is strung, but will not tell ME she is strung.  I see her addiction just as much as I saw mine.  When she doesn't have heroin, she then looks for methadone, hydrocodone, oxycontin, whatever she can find.  She insists to me that she doesn't do heroin anymore, but i know better.  I have found the paraphania and see the track marks.  I'm not stupid....I'm an addict too....Can she withdraw the same way I am....meaning.....on her own....or does she have to be admitted for medical supervisory???
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Avatar_n_tn
When you say she is in denial, can you talk a little how that manifests?  Do you mean she doesn't think she is strung?  Does she think she is strung, but wouldn't have a hard time quitting?  Without knowing exactly what you are dealing with concerning her denial, it would seem you could bring it to her attention by telling her you will trust her and leave her alone if she can go two or three days without.

Beyond that you ask about when she comes out of denial, are the withdrawals the same as with opiates.  Heroin IS an opiate!!  One of the strongest.  If she is strung to any degree, she will most certainly experience opiate withdrawal in all of its magnificent beauty...as bad as any.

Good Luck,
Rider
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Avatar_n_tn
So many variables.  Can she withdraw "on her own"?  Again, I'm not sure what that means.  You don't say whether you are going ct or have "help" in the form of something with which to taper.

At any rate, some other fundamental questions need to be addressed also.  Does she want to withdraw, and if so, how serious is she about it (i.e., is she willing to hit it with everything she has, or is partying still important to her?).  How long has she been strung/how much is she strung?  Are her friends a part of her lifestyle (of using)?  How much of her environment has to do with smack?

It doesn't seem that you have any clear cut answers available to you, since she is unwilling to confide in you.  If you have inpatient treatment as an option, is she willing to avail herself of it?  Probably not.  Therefore, that can be eliminated.  Do you have a doctor who is willing to put her on an outpatient program?  Probably not.  Therefore that can be eliminated.    

In all likelihood your options will define themselves.  What do you have available that she will want to do?  If she is not willing to redefine her lifestyle, sadly, she will probably just have to suffer.  You cannot remove her addiction by force.  Would that we could...

It is terribly, terribly heartbreaking to see our children suffer.

At Your Side,
Rider
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Avatar_m_tn
I was addicted to heroin when I was 18 years old and quit cold turkey.  I felt really messed up for about a week.  I had to hit rock bottom to stop.  I got tired of scamming, robbing, stealing, and chaos and said I'd rather go through withdrawal then live like this and I did it.  I think a person has to want to be saved, instead of you going to save them because if they feel no consequence from doing it then why would they ever stop something that makes you feel that good.  I had to get everything taken from me in order to stop.
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Avatar_f_tn
I get what both of you are saying......I just wish that the withdrawals that I am going through right now, I could just go through for her too.... :(  As bad as the withdrawals are and how much I hate the feelings I have right now, I cannot stand to see my daughter continue and possibly hurt herself!  But, I do know that you all are right.......she has gotta want to quit......same as me......Addiction hurts so many....not just yourself!!!  Please keep her in your prayers for me!!  Her boyfriend and all her friends that I know of are all about the smack!!  I am on day 6 of withdrawing from hydrocodone 10/650 about 10-12 a day for the past 5 years and the only thing I am using is a little bit of xanax at night to sleep.  Other than that......on my own.....feeling all the pain.  I wish I could do it for her.....  Thanks for your responses and advice!!
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Avatar_f_tn
I know exactly what you are talking about.....I had to buy a safe to keep my pills in because she was constantly stealing from me.....I know it is part of the addiction.....  What do you mean by "I had to get everything taken from me in order to stop"?  Your home, your job????  
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182493_tn?1348056515
Yes heroin can be detoxed from home.. but the likelihood of her staying clean afterwards is very , very slim.... as a former heroin addict myself.. it took serious treatment to get me clean.. Detox is not the hard part.. its the part after... and being young is not gonna help.. I was 19 when I got clean from heroin.. I really beat the odds.. but like I said it took serious treatment and starting over completely. I even had to leave my family..
many heroin addicts either end up on long term methodone, jail, or dead... a very small percent quit on their own and stay off.. Urge her to get into some sort of inpatient treatment..
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Avatar_m_tn
read my story in the other forum.  The post is called 1600mgs of oxy a day to nothing. Thats what I mean by losing everything and thats only the tip of the iceberg.
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Avatar_f_tn
why would it matter if she was actually addicted to it or not?  The fact it, she does not need to be doing it regardless.  She will be addicted before long if she already isn't.  Someone above said to see if she could go 2-3 days without it and if she could to leave it alone.  But, the fact is, she is using heroin, isn't that bad enough in itself?
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Avatar_n_tn
That's not what I said.
Rider
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Avatar_f_tn
How do I change her mind and get her to think about the consequences being worse than withdrawals??  FLaddict....you said...."many heroin addicts either end up on long term methadone, jail, or dead"......The dead is what scares me......What can I do to help her understand that at 20 years old that she is NOT invinsible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Any suggestions?
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Avatar_f_tn
Hi, I was not referring to your post at all.  I was referring to the original poster who was wandering how to convince her daughter she was "addicted".  My question was to the mother - why does it matter if she is addicted, she just needs to stop it.  Sorry, you took it has a put-down to your post, I did not even read your post.  I was just answering the original poster.
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182493_tn?1348056515
That is tough... I know for me.. until I lost things in my life.. saw people go to jail, and even saw a few friends die.. I didn't stop.. At the end I was living in my car.. 19 yr old I had started at 15.. Had no where to go. Had been in 5 rehabs and a half way house... I was very sick.. I thought I was invisible for awhile... then one day I just couldn't do it anymore..I was too tired.. and too sick..
She will need to get to this point or a point .. where saving her life is more important than chasing a high.. She has a good chance of getting and staying clean if she goes to treatment and does everything they suggest.. Getting her to believe she needs the treatment is the hard part.. Until she is willing.. there is little you can do.. except do not enable her to continue.. set boundaries for yourself and your family.. use some tough love to show her you will not under any circumstance support her killing herself slowly.. You should get into a Naranon group in your town.. get support from other parents in your shoes..How they are fighting this.. You will need support because addiction is not just a fight it is a war, and it affects everyone.. the whole family.

Good Luck to you.. I hope I helped some.. I am struggling with a terrible headache tonight and wish I could type more to help you.. but like I said Until she is ready and willing.. there is little to be done..
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Avatar_m_tn
Welcome to the forum....

You cannot help your daughter with her denial or even using Heroin........
You will need professional help with that......please don't be offended........

If I may ask a question how is she using.......is she using Heroin by injection?

Heroin addicts that use with a syringe is the #1 toughest addiction to kick..............
Denial big time.........Distorted thinking big time......lying stealing sleeping with men
to get high is all about the addiction........

Another question how old is she and how long has she been using Heroin.........

By the way I shot Heroin mulitple times a day for over ten years unless I was in jail.......
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Avatar_n_tn
You seem to be chasing your tail.  As I reread your posts I get no clear focus on what your are facing.  Your first issue is presented as a problem of “denial.”  But upon closer scrutiny you abandon that (because you realize she isn’t denying her addiction to herself, but to you), and decide it is actually a communication problem between her and you.  From there, you express concern over the withdrawals she may be facing (you mention more than once you wish you could do it for her), but that concern is shared with whether she can do it alone or will need supervision.

In your last post you speak of consequences worse than withdrawals, and say “dead is what scares me,” but you don’t say why or how that takes form (Dirty needle/HIV, overdose, drug deal gone bad/gunshot wound, etc.), or if it DOES take form.

So we’ve run the gamut from denial to death, and you are still asking for “suggestions.”  I’m sorry, but I can’t get a fix on what you want “suggestions” FOR.  Harsh as it sounds, my sense of the matter is that the “problem(s)" exist more with you than with your daughter.  By that I mean, your own frame of mind is the problem, not her addiction.  I don’t get the feeling that anything can be said here that would help or that you would use.

I was in exactly the same situation you are about five years ago.  My own 25 year-old daughter was addicted, and so was I.  But she and I had/have a very close relationship.  For a time I would help her by scoring for her when she couldn’t get anything for herself.  I couldn’t bear to see her get sick.  And she did the same for me.  But she finally made up her mind to get free.  And she did.  About three years ago she took her last opiate, and has been clean ever since.  She goes to AA.  I am still strung.  But I’m on a detox methadone program and doing well.  She prays for me everyday.  And she worries about me, but stands by me.

My point?  The only thing you can do for your daughter is give her your love and support.  Nobody has to tell you what she is going through.  If anybody knows, you do.  Stand by her and tell her you will help her in any way you can.  Nothing can be done without trust.  

The rest will take care of itself.

Rider  
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Avatar_m_tn
I can only imagine how a parent feels in this situation........the helplessness must be terrible....

Please feel free to ask me any questions anything I will answer your questions truthfully.........

i asked you her age because it would matter with your parental rights over your child.............

Example if I were a parent of a minor who was addicted to Heroin I would go to court and have her commited for 30 or 60 days........for observation.........

You have some tough choices to make but remember this Heroin addiction is the most powerful addiction known to man.............
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Avatar_m_tn
In 1970 in Vietnam there were so many service men addicted to Heroin President Nixon had to make new law.........
1970, Congress passed the Controlled Substance Act ...
Nixon also drug tested service men and before they could return to the states from Vietnam they must pass an opiates drug test..............or they could not return home..........that is how powerful Heroin addiction is......
Many here are making suggestions and trying to give good advice but without knowing her age, how long of use and how she used and how much she used good advice can also be bad advice.......
If someone is a long time Heroin user by injection (years) Cold Turkey can be deadly.......

There is a huge difference between RX addicts (even Oxycotin) and hard core Heroin addiction.....

This is just a suggestion I know you all are trying to help...........please becareful.........


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Avatar_f_tn
My daughter is 20 years old, been injecting heroin for at least 3 years (that I know of) (but don't really know how much she has been using in a day), her boyfriend is 21 and both of them and ALL of their friends are on heroin.  I do know that my daughter is shooting the dope, as I said in one of my previous posts, I see the track marks and have found the paraphania.  My daughter and I used to be very close, as ONEOFUS said.....you and your daughter would score for one another.....That's how we used to be.  But, I have now decided to get my life back and I am on day 7 on being clean from hydrocodone.  I really appreciate everyone's comments, advice, and life experiences.  And, ONEOFUS you are right....it is my frame of mind, but I am afraid of her getting a disease from shooting up or even worse death from an overdose, or even a drug deal gone bad.  I am addict too and just hate watching her throw her life away!  I realize there is nothing I can do to make her stop using and that has to be something she wants from within.  I guess I am at this point just looking to hear people's stories and see what others think may help!  I have already told my daughter that whenever she is ready that I will do everything in my power to help her!  Are you all telling me that her withdrawals will be worse than my withdrawals from 10/650 10-12 a day for 5 years because she is shooting it?  I have been trying the tough love thing and have told her to leave my house because I was not going to enable her to kill herself.  She then came back a few weeks later and apologized for giving me so much trouble and said she would stop.  Well, we know that didn't happen and recently I have told her to leave again, but now she is with dad at his home, and he says she is still using.  She has had MANY friend die this way including one of her best friends that was like a brother to her.  Now, if we mention that to her she tears up, but still doesn't seem to want to quit...I guess scared of going through withdrawals......Anyway, I really want to thank you ALL for your comments!  That let's me know people are out there willing to help people like my daughter and I.  God Bless You All!
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I read your posts yesterday and my heart goes out to you.  I cannot imagine the pain of watching your child go through drug abuse and all that goes with it.  I, myself, have a 15 year old daughter.  I am struggling with a Lortab addiction.  She has seen me go through it over and over.  She is the most loving and supportive thing.  However, my addiction is the "White Elephant" we don't really talk about.  I have been addicted since she was five, and she's a super bright little girl (she just finished 9th grade, honors classes, with a 3.987 gpa - a little bragging.)  My point is, she's not stupid.  Before my last withdrawal, which I did under medical supervision, inpatient, I was taking 70 to 80 Lortab 10/500 a day.  My day started with 8 pills at once, then 8 pills every 1 1/2 to 2 hours all day.  My days always start at 5:00 a.m. and end around midnight, so you can do that math.  The withdrawal from that was a living hell.  I posted yesterday - Repeart Lortab Withdrawal.  I decided, for some reason, that it would be a good idea, about a month ago, to take a couple of Lortab.  I wanted to see if I could still get a "buzz' from them.  Oh, I found I sure could and I loved it.  Two led to two more, and here I am, a month later, back up to 12 a day.  I kept it there (with the occasional 15 or 18 days) and am facing withdrawal yet again.  It sounds like you're through the worse part of the withdrawal.  I can promise it gets better.  I'm so furious with myself for having to go through this yet again.  I pray it's nothing like the last time.  I'm hoping, beyond hope, that given the short (one month) amount of time and the much lesser dosage, it will be much, much milder.  Howerver, I also know that each time you withdraw it gets harder.  I will keep you, and your precious daughter in my prayers.  
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks so much for your concern, your life experiences and your empathy for me.  I am really sorry about your relapse....I know that must really be hard.....But you are going to make it through this again because you no longer want to be a slave to a drug either.  As far as my daughter, one of the most beautiful girls you can imagine and graduated high school with honors (actually all the way through school she was in honors).  She should be in college getting ready to start a life for herself and all I see if her "falling".....I don't want to lose her....I worry about her more than myself!!!  Again, Thanks so much for your comments and prayers for us as I will keep you in my prayers also!
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239164_tn?1207266607
Thank you, also.  I realize I am on the precipice with my daughter.  She is only 15 and lots can go wrong between 9th grade and graduation.  I pray everyday that she will never, ever suffer any form of addiction.  I know the experts say that addiction is hereditary.  It's so weird...there is NO history, on either side of my family, of addiction.  I don't know why I am the lucky one.  Anyway, peace.  You're in my prayers.
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Avatar_m_tn
man I hate to keep saying this but you cannot stop someone from wanting to get high. She is only 15 and probably has not hit rock bottom.  I had to go through hell before I finally got off drugs.  Honestly I injected heroin and went cold turkey and I injected oxys and went cold turkey.  I think the heroin was worse for the first 5 days but was not as hard as getting of oxys because the oxys lasted so much longer.  Like I was able to go cold turkey the first time I tried off of heroin.  Oxy's was way worse and I had a way harder time getting off them I finally am getting off them after trying for the last 2 years.  I really had to literally lose everything I had in order to get off these things.  When a drug addict has the will to use they will get there drugs no matter what.  I'm mean I was homeless when I was 19 and that still didn't stop me so your daughter will have to hit her bottom before she quits.  I know it makes it sound like you can't do nothing but I think it is important to be there for her when she does truly want to get help and trust me it will get to the point she will say she had a enough.
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182493_tn?1348056515
her daughter is 20  I was the one who said I was 15 when I started with heroin
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Avatar_m_tn
woops minds still kind of foggy.
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Avatar_f_tn
Thanks FLaddict....I was just about to write to oneway to tell him that my daughter is 20....lol  Anyway, I do realize there is nothing I can do until she is ready, but that doesn't keep me from not worrying day and night about her.  On another note, day 7 for me and it is getting better.  I still have not gotten my full energy level back yet though.  And to VOsRose.....addiction of every kind runs in my family......  AGAIN, I really do appreciate EVERYONE'S comments and suggestions and life experiences.  Believe it or not, just to talk about it and listen to others, helps me through my withdrawals as well as my pain for my daughter.
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Avatar_m_tn
Are you all telling me that her withdrawals will be worse than my withdrawals from 10/650 10-12 a day for 5 years because she is shooting it?  

Yes they will be also long time Heroin addicts have a good possiblity of seizures......

The real problem is Recovery Heroin addicts will relapse on a much higher scale than most other addicts combined.............

Meth is the only one that is very difficult to get away from........
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