How Long Untill You Are Normal?

[G'Kar]

I have a question for those who have been there before.  It has been 10 days since I have taken anything.  Stopped cold, with no supplements.  I was taking approximately 350 mg of Codeine a day for almost a year.  Smaller amounts before that for about 3 years.  

When could I expect to feel normal again?  The really bad part is 90% gone, but I feel depressed and tired and very very unmotivated!!

The most important thing is accomplished.  AND WILL STAY ACCOMPLISHED!!  Now I just want my life back.  A lot of people have made references to it, but if anyone can share with me (and everyone else) how many days, in real numbers, until you felt totally normal?

Thank you all for your help.

G’Kar

[kstuebin]

Good for you!! You've done something most people can't.  My only experience with giving up a drug was quitting alcohol and cigarettes many years ago (not at the same time). I do remember being tired...watched an awful lot of soaps. I started drinking lots of OJ and taking a daily walk and that seemed to help but may have pyschological. Treat yourself kindly. I went to AA for awhile and they used to say don't get too tired, too hungry or too stressed or something like that. Also one day a time. Sometimes one minute at a time.  It took me awhile but it's different drugs.  I'm sure the opiate users will be able to give you better feedback.  Just want to congratulate you.  Hope I get there again too.

[Witchywoman]

Hi G'Kar,
It took me a full 3 weeks after my withdrawal week was over to feel completely normal again, so it does take a while.  The fatigue and lethargy are the worst!
Congratulations on stopping. Celebrate having your life back and being free from the slavery to those pills! Yeeeeehaw!

I'm doing fine today...back pain is back to its normal state, no craving for the meds at this point.  ::phew  

I'm about to leave for a week away, so won't be able to check the forum for a while. My love to all of you. Take care of yourselfs and I'll see you soon.

love,
WW

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

What's the definition for "totally normal" anyway?  Personally, I've never felt totally normal since my first bout with morphine addiction some thirty years ago!

As for me, it took probably 90 days before I started to come out of the depression and lack of motivation. I was told that it takes that long for all the toxins to leave the body.  A lot of exercise is recommended during this time if you can manage it.

Keep in mind that we are all different so the amount of time is a moot point here.  The main thing to worry about is relapse prevention. Relapses can sneak up on you at any time and are so hard to fight.  A good support group goes a long way in helping you out with relapse prevention.

Good luck to you!  It sounds like you are on the right track.  J.B.

[Gina]

There is something called post acute withdrawl symptoms. They can last up to 90 days. All this stuff you are feeling (that you know isn't normal) the lethargy-depression is part of the PAWS. I remember experiencing short term memory loss, mental and physical lethargy and serious cravings. The worst was the euphoric recall. I never recalled all the trouble opiates caused me--just the way I used to feel good. Exercise is the best thing you can do right now. Get those endorphins producing again. Be glad you are not coming off cocaine. I learned that you feel blah for up to two years because of the area of your brain that it effects. Don't let it lead you back--10 days is one hell of a great start!!!!!!! Take care!!!!

[pinky to rebecca]

i'm happy to say this is Day Seven with my husband. He has stopped taking anything all together now and for the first time in a while feels 'normal'  he's not dope sick but just rundown like any normal person would be after what his body's been through, and that feels good to him. so i guess 'normal' could mean a lot of different things.
the human body is incredible, and will get things back to 'normal' if you let it.
you are fabulous, Witchy woman. i remember a year ago your posts were quite different. i'm really glad to hear you are feeling well. cat

[Shreddi]

I have searched this site for the Thomas Receipe every way possible and can not find it.  Did they remove it cause its not MD approved?  Is there a link to it?  Thanks very much

[cindi]

I looked and can't find it either,    I even though I had saved it....I'm sure Thomas would be more than happy to either send it to you or post it here.......love to all  cin

[katie r]

I saved Thomas's recipe in Word....so here it is! Thanks again Thomas for coming up with this!!!!

Supplies you'll need first:

As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin that you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the lorcet, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches.

Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.

--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if it's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.

Brand-name-only Imodium (immodium) (over the counter at the supermarket)

-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.

L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.

-- thanks spook for this info: chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps

-- Spook says every other day, but my experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bed time. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense)

Anyway, if you want to do it yourself and have a chance of being free of all narcotics instead of getting hooked on methadone, one of the hardest to get off of, by the way, you might try my formula. (It's "battle-tested" and works!)
2ND. one,
you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.


Comment By: Wizard to Doc, P.S. on Thursday, August 09, 2001


Doc, here is a more recent version with a web site at the bottom that Thomas recomends. Again the credit is his for the research.
Good Luck, Wiz


Thomas'recipe:
Here's my re-print for the inth time of my cold turkey recipe for coping with narco withdrawal. You may benefit from just getting some brand name Immodium and stopping the runs. The runs leads to dehydration very quickly, which could be conributing to your general malaise. Check out the L-Tyrosine and B6, too. That stuff works on non-junkies as well! Good luck.

Thomas

Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.

Supplies you'll need first:

As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.

--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself, along with some good escapist movies. That always worked for me.

Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.

--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.

Brand-name-only Imodium (immodium) (over the counter at the supermarket)

-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.

L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.

chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps

My experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions. After a few weeks, I cut down on the dosage, though, as it can cause the runs at high doses.

Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).

Take a look at this link. According to this doc, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to complete the dopamine, norepinephrine. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. I got a pretty good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6, however.

I also understand from another contributor that zinc and magnesium help replenish and restore vital substances depleted by narcotics use.

Here's a link dedicated to L-Tyrosine ...

http://www.mindfixers.com/pathway1.html

WARNING: This same site says to avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, etc.

[Shea]

WW...that was an interesting story about your experience having to take some med. I am sorry to hear you got hurt. Last thing you needed after surgery. Glad to hear you are feeling better now. I bet you felt relieved that having to take the med. immediately didn't jump start you back into anything. Was a good idea how you made your husband aware of it and had him hold the meds. Just PLEASE don't get too reassured or careless. You know this is a cunning disease.
Will miss your posts while your gone.

Katie r...How is it going? Are you detoxing or have you found some meds.? I have been thinking of you as I know if you are detoxing these have to be a tough few days. Keep us posted.

Thomas...Danielincc, sends hugs and kisses. Ha Ha (just kidding) As always when I read your posts and the replies it is apparent how respected you are.

Philly Chad...hope you are okay, haven't seen any posts from you in almost a week.
Mickytim.....haven't seen any posts from you either. Hope all is okay.

jennyfla....sounds like you need to do some damage control with your husband. I know it is so difficult especially after 20 years. But there are so many things in life we CAN'T control, that we have to take control of the things we can.  He is just infecting your wound. I have to agree with SHOTSY. At least until he proves he can be the kind of husband you deserve. good luck to you.

Bradd... I have been reading your posts and have prayed that things are coming along for you. Withdrawal is horrible, no one can argue that. BUT we live through it, (all along praying we could just die), Keep reading the posts they help so much. And consider Thomas's Recipe it helps a great deal.



To all of you...Thomas, WW, Frank Lee, Katie, cindi, Gianna, jennyfla, Philly Chad, Mickytim, jbear,lea, skipper, Kstuebin, J.B., SHOTSY, the cat, Bradd and anyone I missed....as always your posts are so important and provide such strength to us all. Whether it is a story we can relate to or an experience we can learn from. It is the daily sharing and caring that nourishes our souls and lives which we are so desperately trying to strengthen and rebuild.

Love,
Shea

[Shea]

Hi,

I have been clean from pain meds for about 7 weeks now. That was my question I posted in the beginning...HOW LONG BEFORE I FEEL NORMAL. When I posted and asked that question here and I received several replies which basically were saying...if you have been taking something like this for long periods of time you can't expect to feel normal right away. Your brain has learned to function on it. your body has adjusted to having the meds.  your system has become accustomed to over a long period of time. I still don't feel "normal". But look at WW she does and it has only been 3 weeks. I am sure there are a lot of factors that weigh into it. Maybe instead of thinking everyday "I don't feel normal yet" think "I feel better than a few days ago. PROGRESSION not PERFECTION! If you keep dwelling on not feeling normal you will start to feel more depressed. Just focus on how much better you feel compared to yesterday and the day before. And be proud at your willpower for what you are overcoming. Good Job! And this forum will supply you with a ton of encouragement from many caring people.

Shea

[Thomas]

Hi shea, happy to hear you've gotten so much clean time behind you. It helps sometimes to imagine the time since your last use as distance, say 100 yards for each day. Every day you stay clean puts another 100 yards between you and your habit ... you can visualize the bottle of pills receding into the distance, further and further, it's power over you diminishing as that distance increases ... for some, that helps.

The longest I have ever stayed clean was 6 months. That was with 3 months residential drug treatment, daily, nightly AA and NA meeetings, sponsor, the whole nine yards. But to be honest, I ached for that vicodin, or any drug that would fill the void that whole time. It was like I was hollow. As time went on, that emptyness turned into a well of darkness. Somewhere in that darkness, my soul drifted in torment, I ached so much for that high. I'm not being very encouraging, am I?

I don't know what sort of physical condition you're in, why you were on the pain meds, etc. But during that 6 months, when I felt like I was going to be swallowed up by that dark void, I would put a Walkman on, put on some tunes, and walk. I'd walk for miles and miles ... until that void didn't seem to hurt as much, and I could return home. It might sound lame or same ole same ole, but I believe that aerobic exercise, which takes anything from vigorous walking to jogging or using a stairmaster or swimming laps, would help restore your mood and general feeling of well-being. Of course, I don't know you. I don't know what kind of pain you're carrying around inside of you, so excuse me if my advice comes off as trite.

The L-Tyrosine, taken at lower than the detox 4,000mg dose, can give you a lift in the morning. Even 1500mg along with B6 on an empty stomach right when you awake, will bring a little light into the darkness that inhabits you the way it does me. I may not be able to help beyond that, but I can listen. And I can know more than most what you feel. Post anytime. I can't access this site from work, but I'll always check for messages in the evening. If it helps to talk, I would be honored if you talked to me. Who knows? You might even bring a little light into my own life. This isn't charity I offer. The need and the healing flow both ways.

Thomas

[Frank Lee]

Hey Shea,

One way to deal with the "how long till I'm normal " question is to just be with what you are now. Eaiser said than done, I know. My problem is when I think about that, or the vic cravings, social situations, stressors I will face in the future I get overwhelmed. If I just sit with how I am feeling now ( much better thanks, but not quite drug free) it's ok. It's not normal and frankly I never was. But it's ok. I hug my kids more and the lights seem to be on a little more. Sometimes, and forgive me if I am going a little comsic here, I think of myslef as one of billions of souls on a planet that is one of billions in a universe that is... well, you get the picture, perspective.

Hang in there - you are moving towards the light away from the darkness and while that may not be ' normal ' yet, it ain't chopped liver either.

Peace,

Frank

[Milo]

Hi, it truly does depend on the individual -- age, circumstances, psyche, reason for taking meds/reason for stopping...Right now I'm finally starting to feel like I'm returning to life again. My health is good, I'm taking some pleasure and satisfaction in my work again...For me, seeing small signs of progress helped encourage me that more progress was on the way. Look for those small signs and treasure them. If there are no signs, if you're feeling like hell and your motivation is zero, be gentle with yourself. I know how horrible that feeling of depression is, but know that in its own time, in your own time, it will lift. I don't know if you're taking an SSRI...Right now the only one I recommend to people is Celexa -- very gentle, few if any side effects, and possibly of some help in the long run. Good luck (I mean that sincerely) and please keep posting on your progress. -- Milo

[Philip1815]

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