How can I withdraw from Methadone ? - Addiction: Substance Abuse

by Francoise, Mar 25, 2001 12:00AM

Strongly recommend you visit the following site and read every word:

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/

And so should everyone else who is either an addict and wants off their drug, or who is an addiction medicine specialist.

My $0.02.

Francoise

by spook, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

So far Ibogaine represents the closest thing to a one dose? cure! for Euphorigenic drug Addiction.
If you want to detox using a non Opioid,use Clonidine and Quinine and then taper off the Clonidine(slowly) and stop the quinine.
Nothing stops the cravings(except maybe Ibogaine temporarily),and other drugs of abuse(amphetamine,cocaine,heroin,etc)
I have stopped using Opioids,ie Heroin,Methadone,etc(clean for a year) and it can take months for the craving to stop and even when it does,you may start using again(I did even though I felt fine),now I stopped again??,it is like opening a door and eventually it closes,BUT you can never LOCK it again.
Changes in Neurons occur as a consequence of long term Euphorigenic drug use,addiction is Psychological,yet still supported by Neurological systems,just different ones.and they take TIME to correct.The locked door is the Psychological aspect,a learnt behaviour,response to stress is modified and Opioid recall manifests,this can be permanent,this is the purpose of Psychotherapy,to learn to deal with life without drugs.
The Buprenorphine(BUP) is now available in Australia as a NHS approved sublingual(no need to inject)tablet to "Help" heroin addicts,if you have a big tolerance and bad withdrawal symptoms,it will either do nothing or worsen the withdrawals(as it has antagonist properties that predominate in doses required to abolish withrawals)
Its mild agonist properties mean that once sufficiently detoxed(over most of withdrawals)it will stop the craving,but then you have to get off the Buprenorphine-Right?(maybe not,its your life),but it is better than long term methadone maintenaince as Withdrawals from that take months,whereas getting off BUP is very easy,although you may not feel ready for a while,the good thing about BUP is that if you try to abuse it by taking large doses,it has the opposite effect and will cause withdrawal.
Keep trying and do not feel like a failure if you relapse,All of the people I know who are ex drug addicts and have NEVER relapsed have had a PROFOUND change in their view of their lives,you are dealing with a dilemma that is so difficult,and all of the answers are within you,although at times you may think the problems exist in the outside world,unless you can change them, you need to alter your interpretation of that world/your life,society,etc.You may never succeed in total permanent abstinence from Opioids.
Approx 80% do not,so you will not have to feel weak or not normal.I wish you luck in this project,as nothing you do in your life will require as much dedication to achieve.
No wonder DR`s do not want to prescibe Addictive drugs and our governments Ban them,they can ruin a persons life.
Good luck and may god lend a hand.

by spook, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

So far Ibogaine represents the closest thing to a one dose? cure! for Euphorigenic drug Addiction.
If you want to detox using a non Opioid,use Clonidine and Quinine and then taper off the Clonidine(slowly) and stop the quinine.
Nothing stops the cravings(except maybe Ibogaine temporarily),and other drugs of abuse(amphetamine,cocaine,heroin,etc)
I have stopped using Opioids,ie Heroin,Methadone,etc(clean for a year) and it can take months for the craving to stop and even when it does,you may start using again(I did even though I felt fine),now I stopped again??,it is like opening a door and eventually it closes,BUT you can never LOCK it again.
Changes in Neurons occur as a consequence of long term Euphorigenic drug use,addiction is Psychological,yet still supported by Neurological systems,just different ones.and they take TIME to correct.The locked door is the Psychological aspect,a learnt behaviour,response to stress is modified and Opioid recall manifests,this can be permanent,this is the purpose of Psychotherapy,to learn to deal with life without drugs.
The Buprenorphine(BUP) is now available in Australia as a NHS approved sublingual(no need to inject)tablet to "Help" heroin addicts,if you have a big tolerance and bad withdrawal symptoms,it will either do nothing or worsen the withdrawals(as it has antagonist properties that predominate in doses required to abolish withrawals)
Its mild agonist properties mean that once sufficiently detoxed(over most of withdrawals)it will stop the craving,but then you have to get off the Buprenorphine-Right?(maybe not,its your life),but it is better than long term methadone maintenaince as Withdrawals from that take months,whereas getting off BUP is very easy,although you may not feel ready for a while,the good thing about BUP is that if you try to abuse it by taking large doses,it has the opposite effect and will cause withdrawal.
Keep trying and do not feel like a failure if you relapse,All of the people I know who are ex drug addicts and have NEVER relapsed have had a PROFOUND change in their view of their lives,you are dealing with a dilemma that is so difficult,and all of the answers are within you,although at times you may think the problems exist in the outside world,unless you can change them, you need to alter your interpretation of that world/your life,society,etc.You may never succeed in total permanent abstinence from Opioids.
Approx 80% do not,so you will not have to feel weak or not normal.I wish you luck in this project,as nothing you do in your life will require as much dedication to achieve.
No wonder DR`s do not want to prescibe Addictive drugs and our governments Ban them,they can ruin a persons life.
Good luck and may god lend a hand.

by Frankinscense, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: get off methadone

Methadone is a long acting synthetic opiate that can help opiate addicts if taken as prescribed. It SHOULD NEVER be bought on the streets!! My advice to you is to enter a methadone program and continue the methadone treatments for a period of time. You must make up your mind that you want to quit. It sounds as though you have not reached that plateau. Methadone should be accompanied by counseling from a substance abuse counselor and twelve step meetings are a must. These two treatments are available at most methadone clinic. Make up your mind and go you life WILL improve if you get legitimate help from a well rum methadone clinic. Besides methadone most clincs offer Laam as an alternative. Laam is a longer acting cousin to methadone that allows you to go to the clinic 3 times a week. Again,staying on methadone will allow you to get you life together, simply because you are not chasing you next high. You must be supervised and your need to find your adequate dose if you want to get the therapeutic effects from methadone. Detoxing from methadone can be achieved by doing a very slow dose lowering regime. One milligram a week for the fasted techinique. The most comfortable with the least amount of discomfort can be achieved doing one mgm a every 4-6 weeks until finished. (10mg,9mg,8mg,7mg etc) I have successfully been clean of opiates for seven years using my local methadone clinic. The important thing is to make up your mind to stay focused with your program. Best Wishes, Stay Focused, Be Spiritual!
Dan..

by J.B. to Brian and Vicky, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Dan

Welcome back, Dan! I've had no experience with methadone except what I scored on the street. It was called Dolophine in Germany and I did'nt think much of it at the time...but it did kill the "sickness" when morphine or heroine was not available.

I agree that a well run methadone clinic may be the best solution for many addicts in this country. More importantly, I hope people read the last two sentences of your post over and again. What you have said here is the key to any kind of recovery whatsoever! J.B.

by Gina, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Doc Dan

Hey "Doc", nice to see you are still with us. Remember me... I started the methadone clinic in January and have maintained for the past month at 70 mgs. They are going to let me start LAAM in the next few weeks and told me that this would be another adjustment....Evidently you can't figure out that 70mgs of methadone equal ?? mgs of LAAM. Do you have any experience with this switch over? I have to say that even though I drive an hour to the clinic every morning and an hour back I have never felt better. I do not crave, I have energy and I feel "Normal!" It is not a high it is just so amazing that I know this is the way you are supposed to feel. My insurance is suppose to reinburse me 70% after a $300.00 deductable. So I am currently awaiting to receive a $500.00 check from them. I figure it costs me $20.00 a week instead of the $70.00 fee. That is not counting gas but...to me it is so worth it. My problem lies with my husband who doesn't understand why I am not reducing my dose so I can be free of all drugs. I know he hates me driving there (time,gas)and fee since I haven't received my insurance check yet. I tell him how good I feel now and he says I am subsituting one drug for another. He doesn't understand that this is not some sort of high. He won't say anything for a couple of weeks than wham.....he starts saying, "When are you going to get off the program and get your **** together?" I get frustrated and think to myself..Fine,k I'll get off and just find another dr to get pain meds. I know that is just anger talking but I don't know how to get him to understand. My counselor has offered to have a meeting with him to help educate him.Sorry this got so long but I have noone else to tell. That's why I really appreciate all you guys (and girls) help! Dan, thank you for personally answer my detox question to my e-mail. Can you answer the LAAM question? Thanks everyone!!

by CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: J.B.

I just wanted to say hi and see how you have been. Chad

by J.B. to Brian and Vicky, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: CHAD

I'm still me! Ironically though, I've had my own problems to deal with and have felt like there was no one to talk to. I'm really happy for you in your decision to seek help for your Oxy addiction. You always knew that it was coming and just needed a little "nudge" to fall into the program. I don't really want to discuss my problems here, but I will tell you that I wrote a letter of appreciation to my doctor today for helping me with my pain. That's what I find ironic! For years I abused narcotics for the "high" and now I need them just to function due to real medical problems. I still practice the twelve steps everyday. That statement probably sounds a bit strange but if you stick with the program, you will understand what I mean. J.B.

by CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: J.B.

I think a guy like you might have the strenth not to abuse them. You are obviously well versed in the 12 steps of NA. I however can't even think about them, let alone do them. I guess you know that I never really needed them after my surgery. I think that I might have truly needed them for like 3 days after the operation. The thought that is going through my mind is thatI say hey! why not just swallow them instead of chewing them. I guess that's the addict in me talking. Twoo weeks ago I was crying like a little girl, I HAVE to remember that pain.........chad

by Brighty, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Saul

I hope you read carefully the dosage information that Dan gave you. Methadone is a very difficult drug to get off of.... so if you couln't get totally off the heroin in spite of your small maintenance dose I am not sure you will be able to get off the methadone unless you are very accurate and disciplined in tapering yourself with it. There is a reason that it's a very controlled drug. If everyone had easy access to methadone it would probably not be much use as a maintenance drug; in fact lots of people would be addicted to it. There are people in some countries where this is the case. I think Israel is one of them. The methadone problem is worse than the heroin problem. I wish you all the success in the world. You seem determined to get clean .... but it would be better to have it done professionally where you are not holding your own healing potion...drugs in the hands of an addict are easily misused.... I would not want to see you go from the fry pan into the fire. God bless you and I hope you come back and read... there's good information here.

Love, Brighty

by Brighty, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Dan-- some questions

I had to read Saul's question a few times to really get the idea that he may be in need of some more information that you can share. It seems to me that he wants to detox, not to maintain... but of course I can't be sure. Isn't the 2 weeks he's been on the methadone a little long for detox ?? I know they used methadone in a couple of the detox places my daughter was at. But I think after the week, that was it.

Can you explain the dosages used in a detox and the dosages used in a maintenance program ?? Is Saul beyond detox now and having to work on a maintenance taper ??

I got worried after reading his question because someone told me that getting off methadone can be fatal if not tapered correctly. I don't know if this is true but it just came to my mind and I am hoping this fellow has the best information for his situation.

Also, he said he has been using for 7 months. Don't most methadone clinics suggest that users under one year try to forego the methadone ?? I am sure there is lots of misinformation out there that I have heard. I know you can clear them up.

Thanks for your replies which will enlighten me and help this guy out (I hope)--. Love, Brighty

by Brighty, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Spook

I was especially impressed with your response to Saul... your compassion is evident... but also you seem to have this whole business of the facets of addiction very well in perspective. It is very complex and I often find in your responses to others, the answers to questions I have had in my mind but have not yet asked. So much of this I have agonized and pondered in my mind for several years now... and I also find that those things I though there were no answers to really do not have answers.... not evident to mere humans anyway !!:-)) Thanks for adding to or verifying my jumbled information !! Love, Brighty

by Jimenez, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: about methadone

Here's why Methadone is not much more than big business. I don't care what anyone says, the reason it stops cravings is because it's made up of the same stuff we all love. Yeah, it's long acting. Big deal. You're still using. If someone actually uses methadone and stops really overdoing it, like most of us do eventually, great. More power to you. But remember, you have to get off this stuff too, don't you?

Okay, someone on this thread said that Methadone is costing her $20 a week...she's currently at 70 mgs. According to Dan:

"The most comfortable with the least amount of discomfort can be achieved doing one mgm a every 4-6 weeks until finished."

So let's say you're tough and can do one mg. every 4 weeks (1 month) for math's sake. If the person in question goes down 1 mg. a month at 70 mgs. constantly and consitently until the end, she will take 70 months to get off her current "regimen" right?

That's almost 6 YEARS!

52 weeks a year at $20 a week (not including time, gas etc.) = $1040 per year x 6 years = $6,240. Now, this is all under the assumption that no relapses occur or no mg. dosages go on longer than a month.

6 years is a long time. I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble or put down anyone's attempt to get over their addiction. I think that's commendable and very cool. But to me, I think stretching out this regimen for this long is just putting off the desired inevitable - being drug free and staying drug free. Take a couple of months, or a few weeks with Bup and get it over with. Confront your issues with drugs and what is happening in your life that makes you want to do drugs as an escape with a shrink or support group and get the actual drugs out of your system. The longer an addict stays in a "drug routine" the more apt they are to continue thinking about drugs in general. The more apt they are to relapse.
"spook" already said that it's a tough go and that over 80% relapse. Is someone that has been on methadone for 16 years not a drug addict? I think they are, but they are keeping an industry afloat too. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of time. There has got to be a better way to spend this time and money getting off the drugs altogether. $100 a month for a shrink (less if you have insurance and a co-pay). 20 hours a month at support groups. There are more proactive ways to approach getting off drugs than taking different drugs. The main goal is to get off drugs right? Is a 6 year program that isn't guaranteed itself a great risk both physically and financially? I don't know. Any semblance of a "normal" life is worth all the money in the world so don't get me wrong here. I just think when you get to a place where you want off, you have to get off. Period. The withdrawals are being staved off just like Tom staves them off with Darvon. Not much of a difference. If the mental scaffolding for drug addiction is still in place, the cravings will always be just beyond the next corner. Tear down the scaffolding and your off to a better start. I could say more on this, but I won't. I haven't done either, methadone or quit, so I'm in no place to judge. But when I do do something, I would hope that I could look back in a year or two from that day and think about it in the past tense. Not in the augmented present. Thanks for the ear as usual. Just food for thought. I commend anyone who has even gone as far as the methadone step. God Bless.

by Brighty, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Jimenez

Thank you for your candor.... it's good to know that some people are brave enough to speak their truth. I do not disagree with much of what you say. In fact when my daughter wouldn't get clean and we (our family) were in and out of court with her charges, I was really on my knees. They sent her to a methadone clinic and I was very upset for the reasons you mention... prolonging the drug syndrome. She was not happy either because she also espoused the same philosophy as you. The problem was she was breaking the law to get heroin and about to go to jail. She was essentially told that she could have her cake and eat it too by "purchasing" methadone.Also, the dose would be controlled so she would not get high..just satisfied. As fate would have it, when the clinic interviewed her they found her to not be a good candidate because she was detoxed and clean for a short time, and they had a wait list. By the time she relapsed and was Baker Acted for a suicide attempt she ended up in a long term treatment program that mainly treated mental health issues. Their philosophy was long term deep therapy rather than long term maintenance. I am not sure what the future holds but she does have a year clean, is free of cravings, working a recovery program and grateful to be where she is. It is likely that had fate turned the other palm she would still be in the methadone clinic program. My understanding is that there are some people who simply cannot get clean no matter what is offered. Who knows why ?? Maybe it's permanent damage to the neurotransmitter system, maybe permanent psychological dysfunction, resistance to healing.... any number of things... but in cases like that I would opt to have a person on methadone rather than the alternatives. No matter how you cut it, it's all an industry. Methadone is a creation of the Rockefeller foundation... need we say more ??? Drugs,both prescription and on street are also big business, as is the profit from making criminals out of addicts... it's all immoral. The difference is that methadone is legal and it removes the need to struggle and revert to criminal activity. I am not sure why they don't just keep people on heroin in a clinic with controlled doses. I was told because it's so plentiful that it can't be truly controlled. Yet we have JB and Saul attesting that they got methadone on the street...so I am not sure it's so controlled afterall... so I suppose I don't really understand why it's used instead of other opiates. Maybe that it's long acting. I hope Dan will respond to our dilemmas here. Love, Brighty

by Brighty, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Patrick for Tom

I hope you read Saul's comment.. he has 2 injections of the bup left... maybe he will tell you where he went.... hmmmmm.... wonder if it's a possible mail order product :-)) ??? Did you check those sites I sent you ?? Any luck ?? God bless you. Love, Brighty

by Thomas02, Mar 26, 2001 12:00AM

To: Brighty for tom

Dear Brighty,
Hope you and your daughter are well. yes, I checked out a number of the clinics on your list. Many of them look suitable for what I need. Unfortunately, the "dot.com" stock market debacle has put me out of work, leaving me with no med insurance. Until I find another job and hook up with some med insurance benefits, I'm in a holding pattern when it comes to getting off of any drugs. All these programs reqire money. So, in the mean time, I use what I have in order to maintain, but until I get some coverage, I won't be able to afford any of the programs on your list. According to CSAM, bup will not be legalized for private treatment of opiate addiction in California until sometime in the third quarter of 2001. So, while they're holding training seminars for doctors in San Franscisco as we speak, the drug won't be OK's for opiate addiction treatment until later this year. So I'm just playing my usual waiting game -- placating my habit with propoxyphene and Xanax and just waiting, waiting, waiting for the legislature to vote in the measures governing clinic treatment of opiate addiction with buprenorphine. Wait. Wait. Wait ... that seems to be the name of the game. Thanks again for the research and the list. I fully intend to use it when 1) I am gainfully employed and can afford the treatment and 2) it's finally legalized for use as an addiction treatment. I could get it now if some doctor wanted to prescribe it as a pain killler, but I don't know any MD's who will "fudge" things in order to make that work. I guess I have to just wait. Give my best to your dear daughter. I do hope she is better.
Peace.

by Patrice, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: Dan from Patrice

Hi Dan
Remember me, its Patrice, you are the one who helped me make up my mind to get on methadone maintenance. It has been a bumpy (but good road) they are still trying to ajust my doseage as I am finding it hard to stay clean. I have been totally honest with them, and I am going to make it one day at a time!!!! I have a VERY important question to ask of you. My husband Mike is on MMT with me, and he isnt doing too good mentally. He was on it in the 60's when they would dose you so high, you would walk around like a zombie. Mike needs to talk to a successful person like you to tell him that its ok to be on mwthadone, and let him know hes not a loser (thats what he thinks he is right now) If you could just e mail him once, and let him know how good you are doing. Our addy is ***@****. I am sorry for bothering you, but he needs help right now, and you helped me soooooooooooo much!!!! Thank you Dan, and sorry I swayed from the topic a little.

Take it easy

Patrice

by spook, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

Buprenorphine(sublingual) is now available in Australia and quess what?,I am not going to get my Doctor to prescribe it to me because,It is an Opioid and addictive,it costs $3.20 for about a weeks supply,now that I am OFF opioids I feel UNREAL,absolutely bloody ecstatic,what a waste of a life being trapped on them,I am stronger than that,then again maybe in a month or two I will have a little binge on Buprenorphine(no hurry),actually I went cold turkey from 130mg of methadone used for 2 years and It was Overall a positive experience.those that fear life,fear pain,those that accept pain,acquire pleasure.
Their are no answers in life just solutions,make sure you do not dissolve your brain in them.
I had A girlfriend who hurt me more than any drug I have ever used,**** drugs and girlfriends,stuff life.I could die now and not care,"freedom is having nothing left to lose".

by Frankinscense, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

Mr. Jimeniz remarks are very logical. But there is nothing logical about opiate addiction. There are few treatments that work to help this brain disorder. Methadone when used properly can produce positive results. Opiates deplete or slow the production of several neurotransmitters, endorphins being one that is effected. Methadone must be taken for at least 12-18 months for four things to happen. 1.)Allow the addict to look at his life and face some very important unresolved issues. 2.)Find a therapeutic dose 3.) attend counseling to find solutions for these issues.4.)allow the brain to readjust. Methadone maintenance is hard to understand by people. That is why there are so many myths written about it.Methadone and LAAM helps the brain replenish the N/trans. that have been effected negatively from years of drug abuse. The fact is MMT stops crime and the spread of HIV when used with a good program. Like any other program,it must taken seriously by the participant. Dan...

by Brighty, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: Dan---questions

Hi Dan...

I know you are busy so I am sorry to bother you... I did post some questions for you which are above & dated 3-26. It appears you missed them.

What is a normal detox dose, used for a week lets say, compared to a dosages for a long term maintenance? It seems that's what Saul who asked the question that started this thread wanted to know. I don't think anyone answered that yet.

Also, is it true that withdrawl from methadone can be fatal ? Spook just said he went cold turkey off 130 mg !!! Is that unusual ???

Why do clinics not use maintenance of a tapering dose of the original drug of choice ?? I realize that some are long acting so maybe you can enlighten me here.

Is it true that the govt. has put tracers in the methadone so it can be detected in the urine longer than normal opiates ?? ( May sound silly but I have heard that many times !!) Actually, how long does it stay in the urine ?

How controlled is methadone ? I thought it was very hard to get on the street... now reading here it seems it's not so hard afterall. ( ?? )

Thank you for your comments which shed positive light on a drug that many of us are not well informed about. Patrice made a comment about her husband being on the stuff years ago and he was like a zombie. Many of us are over 30 :-)) and that's the stereotype ( a correct one by the way) that we remember and it did seem that it was just going from one drug to another. It did get a bad name for that and similar readons. I think there is better use of methadone now.

Hope to hear from you. Love, Brighty

by Jimenez, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: to Brighty

You know Brighty - re: your questions about the "controlling" of methadone.

Matthew Perry, who just landed himself in yet another rehab after suffering bouts of addiction and pancreatitis from said addiction, had/has a Vicodin and Methadone Problem. His co-stars on Friends raided his dressing room after suspecting that Matthew was once again in active addiction. They found quantities of both Vicodin and Methadone. Now, from what I've heard here, NO clinic allows you to walk out with your single dose let alone 100 or so. This leads me to believe that M.Perry was using methadone off the street to either get "high" or to maintain himself when the Vicodin ran out. This is about the 3rd story I've heard in the last week, including here, that methadone could be found on the steet. Methadone can be found in pharmacies. I knew a guy that was into the 300-400mgs of Morphine a day. How'd he get that? Pharmacy. His dad owned it. Same pharmacy I used to get my Vicodin from. Under the table. So it's all to be had. You just have to look. Methadone clinics aren't sole proprietors of the drug so it's always possible that these drugs are making it out on the streets - and they are.

If methadone is anything like a "super" Darvon, I'd rather pass anyway. I absolutely hate even a maintenance dose of Darvon (they're in the same family - methadone and Darvon) Of course, like Tom, Darvon is way better than withdrawals, but not a fun feeling regardless. Especially if you go a little over. Can anyone here attest to the "feeling" of methadone? Is it a related feeling to propoxyphene? (spook? whatdya think?) If so, I can count it out immediately. Darvon actually makes me want to get Vicodin etc. in order to really be satisfied cravings-wise. Anyway, I'm off on a tangent now, sorry about that. (also, spook: in your post from a week or two ago, you were enjoying a beer. In the same post you said it didn't feel as good as the "shot of heroin" that you had some weeks before. I might be prying, but in other posts you have said that you are over a month clean and before that on 130 mgs. of methadone. Were you using other drugs while on the methadone or am I losing my mind and just confusing your posts and stories? Sorry if I am. Just want to make sure I'm on the right page.)

by Gina, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: Jiminez and Patrice

I'm the girl who wrote about the MMT and cost per week. The way the clinic detoxs is 5mgs every 1 or 2 weeks depending on the individual's comfort level. I was in group today and a girl went from 80 mgs to 30mgs using the minus 5mgs per week and stated she felt no discomfort at all. The counselor stated that it starts to get a little harder at around 20 mgs, you can experience discomfort. PATRICE....I remember when you started and felt fantastic, I was the same way but started to crave again so they upped my dose so I could reach a blocking dose. I started to think it wasn't possible because after an increase of 5mgs week by week it seemed to only hold me for 2 weeks . Now I have been at 70mgs. for 1 month and I have finally arrived. No more cravings. Just increase until you reach your blocking dose. I remember not wanting to go higher but my counselor stated it doesn't matter if you are at 60mgs or 90 mgs its not harder to come down (just longer)since its not until you reach around 20mgs or so that you feel the discomfort and then you just stay there for awhile. I want Jiminez to know that you must attend 3 NA meetings a week, 1 inhouse group meeting and individual counseling while on the methadone so you can have a foundation built when its time to detox. I was leary of the program too. I got caught stealing pain pills from work, lost my job and had to go through pre-trial intervention. I will be able to have my criminal record expunged in a few months. This program does help those of us who break the law to get our fix. I never thought it would happen to me, since I am not a thief. The addiction helped me become a liar and a cheater. I have tried outpatient therapy at a rehab but went back. I know I am subsituting one drug for another at present but I am working the steps and receiving counseling. I have never felt better. I am working on my issues for the first time in my life and I am 37 years old. I am doing positive things and am not destroying my liver with all the acetametaphine. I guess its a personal decision we must all make for ourselves.

by spook, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: Annie

I went cold turkey from 130mg,because my previous withdrawal from 80mg took 2 years and I had constant MILD withdrawals the whole time,even when on 80mg and stable I had withdrawals in the morning before my dose,I HATE methadone,jumping off 130mg is not at all life threatening,their are currently NO documented Medical cases of ANY person dying from Opioid withdrawals.
130mg Methadone daily equals about 600mg of Morphine daily,about the same as 800mg Hydrocodone(ie 80x 10mg Vicoden tablets).I was over 90% of it in 5 months,follows by the usual depression **** that lasted another 6 months or so,not sure.Did it hurt you bet ya.

by Jimenez, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: to Gina

Thanks Gina - for the info. I truly hope that you don't think I was putting down your decision to go the Methadone route. I commend you beyond belief. Of course, I'm sure many people get in and out of there in a month or two. But there's also the ones that are there for years and years. I guess it all comes down to what "kind" of an addict you are. A lot of people want to categorize all addicts in the same bin. The 8 times a day heroin shooter who just beat an old lady up to get $15 and the guy who takes 20 Vicodin a day that are prescribed by a doctor are both addicts - but they are definitely different. One has sunk much further morally than the other. That's not to say we're not all CAPABLE of becoming that heroin addict. It's just that if you're not there yet, you shouldn't be treated as if you were. What the hell am I talking about now? Tangent yet again. Thanks for the info. I don't know much about methadone, but I do know myself and my addiction. I would try to find a way to get high on the methadone. That's for sure. I'd attempt to stick Tuesdays dose under my tongue, tough out the night and then get high as a kite on Wednesday with a double dose. Sick huh? It would really have to be all or nothing for me. If it's true that I now have a permanent endorphin shortage - God help me, and us all. If I could actually quit, but never feel "normal" because my endorphin levels are screwed then what kind of quality of life is that? I think a non-damaging opioid for the endorphin challenged would be the best thing for all/most of us. Especially for us that HAVE to take something for chronic pain. But the money that is being generated by Vicodin (consitently in the top 100 prescribed meds in the country) along with Tylenol #3,4's, Oxycontin (which is unbelievable expensive), Vicoprofen (over a buck a pill) etc.- there are HUGE industries that never want us or anyone in any methadone clinic to get "free". Of course, there will always be more coming down the pike, but what the hell? Might as well get the new ones AND keep the old ones right? We're all part of a system that people are making money off of. It's the American dream.

by spook, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

To: Jimenez

Q:Can anyone here attest to the "feeling" of methadone?

ANS:The first time I went on methadone about 10 years ago(to get high of course),I was compleletly Opioid free,no tolerance,etc, I started on 30mg per day,the first day I did not feel that much,within a couple of days I was absolutely off my face,I was nodding and lucid dreaming,the euphoria was so warm and luscious,it was as good as heroin,these effects slowly subsided over about a 3 month period until basically,I needed it to feel normal?if you can call that normal,so I got my dose put up to 50mg and got a little high for a few weeks "nothing" like initial experience.I eventually worked my way up to 80mg and then it took 2 years to get off it and I hung out the whole time.

Q:Is it a related feeling to propoxyphene?

ANS:slightly similar,in that you get the brain space out effect,but euphoria is "Dirty" and very mild and causes unpleasant side effecs ie stimulation,etc in doses required to get a "high".You could say that Propoxyphene is to methadone as codeine is to Heroin,in fact Propoxyphene is a Methadone derivative.Here is something interesting,not commonly known,IV use of propoxyphene causes a Rush as good as Heroin or Oxycodone,however it causes damage to the vein(necrosis)it will literally dissapear,this is why they make the Napsylate salt form,because it is not water soluble,thus cannot be injected.

Q:spook: in your post from a week or two ago, you were enjoying a beer. In the same post you said it didn't feel as good as the "shot of heroin" that you had some weeks before. I might be prying, but in other posts you have said that you are over a month clean and before that on 130 mgs. of methadone. Were you using other drugs while on the methadone or am I losing my mind and just confusing your posts and stories? Sorry if I am. Just want to make sure.

ANS:I completed detox from the 130mg methadone(2nd time on methadone,see Q:1) about 2 years ago,I used Heroin daily for 3 months during nov,dec,jan 2001 and had last dose of "HEROIN" about 7 or 8 weeks ago now.I did drink a bottle of Coopers stout and felt pretty darn good,I occassionally use a single 180mg dose of Dihyrocodeine(OTC-with aspirin removed),about once a week and at this point I am not getting withdrawals from it between doses,but get a mild craving,so I may stop that for a few months soon,as I do not like being Dependent on anything.

by Saul, Mar 27, 2001 12:00AM

Thanks. I don't plan to go on methadone maintenance. I just wanted to know the right way and dose to get off the meth that I was taking to get off the heroin. I have a limited supply of 10's. I was already on a low manitenance of the heroin but could only get so far. Now I'm 2 weeks on the meth. I want off. This s__it is worse than the dope. Brightly was on target. I want to wean so I don't get sick or crave so bad I relapse. It's everywhere and easy to get. Most people getting it on the street abuse it, I just want to get off the dope. I didn't go to a meth clinic because they will keep me there for ever. I already go to NA. I plan to get clean and get a sponsor.

by Patrice, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

To: Everyone from Patrice

Hi all

Good to hear from you Gina!! I was put on 80mg today and we will see how that goes. Gina, you are so right, I started (I think) at 55mg, and went up a few times,it did last about two weeks, then I would start using again. I learned years ago, being a member of NA since 1984 that there is no shame in using, the only shame is not to keep trying. Thats what I am doing. It is also true there are a lot if misconseptions about methadone. Number one is that people take it in clinical settings to get high. The truth is, methadone used as prescribed WILL NOT get an addict loaded. I know this, because I am on 80mg and feel normal. Someone asked about detox verus MMT. Detox is a 21 day treatment starting at 30mg,going up to (I believe 40mg) then weining off. Also the way people get methadone on the streets is A. an addict who has been on MMT a long time may sell his or her methadone. B. it is available in Pharmacies, as doctors do give it for SEVERE

by Patrice, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

To: Everyone from Patrice

Hi all

Good to hear from you Gina!! I was put on 80mg today and we will see how that goes. Gina, you are so right, I started (I think) at 55mg, and went up a few times,it did last about two weeks, then I would start using again. I learned years ago, being a member of NA since 1984 that there is no shame in using, the only shame is not to keep trying. Thats what I am doing. It is also true there are a lot if misconseptions about methadone. Number one is that people take it in clinical settings to get high. The truth is, methadone used as prescribed WILL NOT get an addict loaded. I know this, because I am on 80mg and feel normal. Someone asked about detox verus MMT. Detox is a 21 day treatment starting at 30mg,going up to (I believe 40mg) then weining off. Also the way people get methadone on the streets is A. an addict who has been on MMT a long time may sell his or her methadone. B. it is available in Pharmacies, as doctors do give it for SEVERE PAIN. One last thing is a person on MMT after being on it for a certain time, can in fact (at least where I go) have take homes of methadone, ranging from one bottle to six. You must be free of all opiates and it is a privaledge, not a right to have take homes. The most important thing about MMT is, it has saved my ass. Even though I admit I have used, I am on the right track, and one day, I will be opiate free due to MMT. I know at my age (46) I will probably be a lifer, but if it saves me, and allows me to stay clean,work a program of NA and get a job, and being a productive member of society once again, thats all I care about. Dont anyone allow the myths of methadone stop you from saving your life, one thing I forgot to mention. Though opiate withdrawl being fatal is extremly rare, one of my best friends decided to stop cold turkey, and had a major heart attack. It can happen. Thank God he is still with us, but he did almost die, and is now back on his dose and doing fine.

Love and hugs too all

Patrice

by Patrice, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

To: Everyone from Patrice

Sorry, I dont know what happened to make my post show twice, guess I goofed!!!!!

by Frankinscense, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

All I know when used properly MMT works. So much misinformation. I do not have time to address every issue people are bringing up! Like every controlled drug methadone will be abused. Methadone is the most tightly controlled drug. A schedule one narcotic. But if people want it there will always be someone that will sacrifice there dose for money. All I know is it worked for me because I wanted off the merry go round. If people go on methadone and seriously do not want to stop their drug abuse, it proably will not work for them. It's simply a tool to help you beat this disease. Methadone, in my perspective IS NOTHING like propoxyphene. Methadone high is only noticeable at the begining of treatment. The high moves way to a feeling of normalcy after you have been on a therapeutic(adequate dose) for a while. You have a feeling of well being. Not a high. Just a feeling of being normal again. Away from the highs and very lows of opiate addiction. Methadone rarely works for the short term. W/out the use of a intensive inpatient residential program. Methadone can be detected in the blood Brighty without tracers. It will stay in the blood long enough for the liver to remove metabolites and that is all. Every person has a different therapeutic dose.(adequate dose) This is a dose that removes all cravings and withdrawals. Methadone is not a replacement drug when used properly. When used properly, it is a medicine that repairs a brain defiency. I have to go. If I didn't answer all questions I apologise but my work calls. My peace I Give You, My Peace I Leave You! Dan...

by Frankinscense, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

I have never heard of methadone being fatal during a detox. I do not know why anyone would want to cold turkey from methadone. Like all opiates the abrupt withdrawal is very uncomfortable. I wish I had some time to share Dr. Dole and wifes research. With all due respect I cannot remeber his wifes name. Dr. Dole and wife founded methadone maintenance. Brighty and all. THere is a interview with Dr. Dole on line. It addresses a lot of worthwhile information on MMT. No myths and untruths in this interview.
Dan...

by Brighty, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

To: Dan

Thank you very much !!! I got lots of my questions answeed in your posts and will look for the online with the Doles. Peace be with you also. Love, Brighty

by Jimenez, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

To: doc dan

Schedule ONE? Methadone? Wouldn't it HAVE to be schedule II? As far as I know - schedule I is reserved for drugs that have "no known medicinal value" or street drugs. Methamphetamine, Heroin, LSD, Pot, etc. I find it hard to believe that the DEA or the FDA would classify methadone in the same class as these other drugs...maybe you meant II. Just curious I guess, are you sure it's I?

by Gina, Mar 28, 2001 12:00AM

To: Jiminez

Believe me...I can relate to trying to find a way to get high on methadone. That's what I thought too. I was taking up to 40 vicoprofen a day. Never tried heroin but only because it didn't come my way, thank God! The great thing about methadone is that it gives you a feeling of well-being thus not needing to get high. Don't get me wrong, the thought of getting high does pass through my mind on occassion but not 24/7 like it used to. I feel normal and it is truly unbelievable that there are no cravings. I would like to stay on it forever, but people who need to do that are the 30 year heroin users who can't live (productively) without it. I don't have take homes but will be starting the long acting meth., so I have to go only 3 days a week instead of 7. I wonder when I wean off comfortably if I will feel depressed? Oh well, I am just enjoying a normal life now.

by spook, Mar 29, 2001 12:00AM

----------------WARNING AMUSEMENT PURPOSES ONLY------------------

The only reason I got high on methadone was that I had no tolerance to Narcotics.
Usually Methadone is a very good way to feel good without being high,its just that I wanted to be high,so I stuffed around on it, putting my dose down to 10mg,saying I wanted to get off it and then when used to 10mg(no withdrawals),saying to them ,I am using large doses of Heroin and need my dose put up(bullshit of course),you like? 60mg is not holding me etc,so up to 80mg etc,I ended up on 130mg,and just got pissed off and stopped.
"I want to make it known that Methadone is a very valuable tool for helping Opioid addicted,live a relatively straught and normal life,when used as directed,don`t think I did not pay the price for my Methadone abuse". Vincent Dole and Marie Nyslander(speling)-(spellind)**** (spelling).bloody spewing...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Now the weird stuff....
=================================================================
I do not know what everybody elses problem is but I use Opioids as a substitute for sex and friendship and love,I am/have learn/`t/ing to love and have sex with myself,but I do not want to get ?too" friendly with spooky.We all know about the David Bowie song ,where Ziggy "sucked up into his Mind".
The 80`s and 90`s have been a real pain in the butt(although the Simpsons is an American Icon of enlightenment for us old hippies).where the HELL did AIDS come from,oh well at least the Nuclear Proliferation is over,Or is it?.(hot war)
Christ I do not know(not that I would not like to meet him),even if I am a sick joke,at least someone may find some amusement in me.even "Bookitty" found a use for me.(although she thought I was Mr Manson Reincarnate)
Oh ,I do not have Aids but how do you really CONNECT with a woman with a piece of plastic between us.
Plastic world,plastic people,plastic economy,plastic love:=yer all want to find a way out or save the planet.Well,well even a Doctor of Psychiatry believes in Aliens(Californication).we all know the ending,its just a meaningless letter followed by a full stop.
Life,make the most of it I suppose,while you can.
By the way,I am going to come into some serious Money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4-"4"(whats that 4 for?) soon,does anybody want to be on a Luxury Ship and park it in international waters,then we can do what we want.(mummy is an Attorney,legal issue,what was that law again,sorry,sleeping with to many Judges,for even the President is not immune)
RIGHT.
Well I have not been wrong yet(comment welcomed),and want to know how many people have become dissolutioned with "LIFE" in the year 2001 and when our ships meet on some lonely international sea,You can betcha I will know the Launch code sequence for your Nuclear Devices and have Viral mechanisms for their inactivation.
Peace,love and Happiness.
Sorry if this is too Cryptic or INSANE.....

by Frankinscense, Mar 29, 2001 12:00AM

To: Jimenez,Gina

Sorry that was a typo. I mean't CII. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Gina> Why would you want to get off a medicine that has made such a dramatic change in your life and productivity. Methadone is known by pharmacologist to be an excellent antidepressant. If it is working for you why change it. This about your existance no one elses. When and if you decide to get off methadone it has to be your decision. No one can influence this decision. Because it will rarely work. MMT is not only for 30 year heroin addicts. It is for anyone with a chronic relapse disorder due to opiate abuse. I have no personal xperience with the switch, methadone to LAAM. I know that you must have a history of no heart problems to use LAAM. Some people develop a heart malfunction due to LAAM. It has to do with particular heart problems certain people are born with. Maybe you should have your heart checked or speak with your counselor about this particular heart condition. Aren't you due for takeouts? Dan..
ps. please find on the web the interview with Dr. Dole. It will explain to love ones the TRUE purpose of MMT. From a scientist and physician.

by Frankinscense, Mar 30, 2001 12:00AM

To: Saul

Saul> I have heard of patients being prescribed the injections of Buprenorphine and were instructed to squirt the liquid in their mouths and swallowed. Two doses left. It at least worth a try!
Dan...

by siliconboy, Mar 30, 2001 12:00AM

withdrawal sucks - BUT WHATEVER YOU DO ODN'T TAKE NALTREXONE UNTIL YOU ARE GOOOOOOD AND CLEAN WITH ABSOLUTELY O SYMPTOMS - LOW LEVEL AND ALL . what it does is immediately put the body into withdrawal by tying up the opiate receptors - not fun at all.

by Brighty, Mar 30, 2001 12:00AM

To: Siliconboy--question

I know Dan's opinion... but for the life of me I still need a direct reply so maybe you will know...it seems that this naltrexone pellet is being pushed after detox..... once a person is totally detoxed what good is it ??? I know it will not allow a person to get high.... so is it a psychological crutch ??? Dan once said that if it stopped cravings it would be a miracle and few would relapse.... and it does seem unsafe that some heroin addicts determined to get high have OD'd and died with it. I have been to some sites and read addicts comments that it did not stop cravings. Just curious what you may know or think.... several people here on this site did not accept the pellet after the buprenorphine detox because they did either did not want something implanted but mainly because they could not really understand how it was going to help. Thanks for your input. Love, Brighty

by spook, Apr 07, 2001 12:00AM

To: level6 Attemptees

Iam a rock,A 60`s song says a rock feels no pain?(well actually I am Stone)and I stay put on the ground,things crawl under the surface of my subconcious,somebody kicked me the other day and all the little pests stopped anoying me.But I was totally alone,I had no legs to move no brain to think or feel,no way to move or communicate or feel life,
The moral of the story is, if you get stoned,prepared to be kicked around.

by susanlea, Apr 07, 2001 12:00AM

Someone help me here. From reading the posts(I could be wrong) you can get high off Methadone? My ex-boyfriend has been using methadone for the past 6 weeks to help him get off oxy's. The Doctor wrote him a perscription for 30 pills for a week and he seems to be out before he's supposed to be. I always thought it was supposed to be doled out in a program. He came by the other day to talk(his addiction, lying, stealing from me)was the end of our relationship. Two years, rehab, detox, nothing chanded, except he says he nolonger loves me or the boys, and he nolonger has an addiction. Anyway Monday he comes over, we talk and it didn't go anywhere, he tells me he's out of his Methadone, and asks me if I have any Vicoden(I take for spinal Problems)I told him no, that he'll get addicted again, he says it can't happen on a couple of pills. Long story short, while I was putting the kids away, he went in my purse and took some pills, and also took my sons Vicoden tuss medicine, I noticed this the next day. I really admire people who can hang in there and help those they love. I seems I tried to hard, enabled, loved, and got nothing back but heartache, pain, and a ruined relationship. I pray my life will get better, and I will be able to put this behind me. 5 years are gone now. I need to find answers to what Oxy;s and Methadone does to someone, will he ever be ok? He's lost us, doesn't seem to care, lives with his parents(he's 38) has 4 kids and is about to lose his job. Does it ever change? Thank You

by Brighty, Apr 07, 2001 12:00AM

To: Susanlea

He'll be ok when he chooses healing for himself... till then he'll probably get worse.

Love, Brighty

by siliconboy, Apr 07, 2001 12:00AM

To: Brighty

I apologize for responding so late - started a new job last week and... All I can tell you is my experience with the naltrexone. The only time i tried it I THOUGHT I was clean. I was always uncomfortable - felt like I needed to stretch constantly and was absolutely miserable. It bothers me for a number of reasons but I suppose if you are at a stage where compulsion simply overwhelms your best efforts you do what ya gotta do. Personally I don't care for the idea of being hurt in a car wreck or? and not being able to get relief until that **** wears off. Thats my truth at any rate. I know everyone has to find their own path just as I understand that a very minute percentage of junkies use methadone the way it's intended, to avoid dope and work their programs. The reality is that most junkies use it to stay well so they can chip when they have the cash and or situations where they can get away with it. I just wish the best for anyone who wants out of the hell that is opiate addiction. I am so thankful that simply the thought of going through withdrawal again is pain enough to keep me away. It took a long damn time to get to that point though.

Best
David

by siliconboy, Apr 07, 2001 12:00AM

To: susanlea

Hi kiddo - don't let anyone bullshit you about methadone. It doesn't have the same "buzz" as junk because it - help me here spook - it doesn't have the same alkaloids? That **** will get you high - it's a synthectic long acting narcotic. It's been used in painful terminal illness - painkilling potions - for a long time. I first did it in the late 70's when a friend gave me something called ____ elixir - don't remeber the name. The reason I am so adamntly against that stuff is because I have seen so many people lose their will to it. I mean people that fought heroin addiction but after methadone maintenance - simply gave up. As I stated elsewhere here - I understand it's intended supportive role and I know that some people - novices that seek help early typically use it in conjunction with the 12 steps etc.
The other side is murkier and if you have been around junkies very much you know that murky is a kind term. When you have something that keeps you well, is cheap, keeps the depression (for the most part) of your back AND allows you to shoot or sniff dope on the weekends (weekend warriors anyone ?), the insidious aspect is pretty evident. Again I know everyone must find their own way out but having been addicted to heroin in a very deep and thorough way and also having used methadone so many times I truly lost count, for detox and to stay well enough to function etc., - I recommend everyone run from that **** like the plague. If your really strung out on junk -a 21 day detox is obviously preferable to what's in store from cold turkey. But if someone is just sniffing dope or shooting less than a gram a day - the reality is people - there isn't a free ticket out - period. You've done messed around with about the only truly physically addictive substance (except extreme alcohol abuse) there is and you gotta pay the piper. Methadone takes a lot of the bumps out of opiate addiction but there is a very high price tag just on the other side.. Ultimately what it does for most people is extend the whole business of being involved with drugs. My advice is to take yer medicine - sic - once you see what's in store on all fronts and get away from all the bullshit that surrounds this entire afair - including taking the 13th step once your strong enough. Life is short and being dependent on anything simply sucks..
D

by Brighty, Apr 08, 2001 12:00AM

To: Siliconboy

How long have you been clean and what is it that got you to where you are now... ???? What do you mean by the 13th step ?? I am not being flip... others here probably know but I have never heard the term before.... I do know what the 19th hole is :-))

You seem a little brash to be honest... so I am wondering if you are finding a measure of peace ?? I do apologize for any inappropriate message here... remember that these boards do not permit us to hear inflection or to see facial expressions... so sometimes we can read people the wrong way. I do agree that being dependent on a chemical sucks... I call it slavery.

Hope to hear from you. Love, Brighty

by siliconboy, Apr 08, 2001 12:00AM

To: Brighty

Hi sweety - yes I'm sure I do seem brash but if you saw the sparkle in my eye you'd get what I'm up to. I have mucho peace when my 16 year old isn't pulling my chain :) I'm clean since the summer of 97 and had many years clean before that last fall into hell, but about 4 years now. I was raised by people that were pretty direct and didn't mince many words. When it comes to this stuff - I feel an obligation of sorts to cut to the chase. I know in my heart that it probably will not change anything that anyone here will do but my life and the lives of several people I loved dearly of which several are now dead has been affected profoundly by this nasty disease. I watched my mother go through valium recovery after being on it for 25 years and really abusing it for the last ten. Honestly as horrific as opiate withdrawal is, that made what I've been through look like a day at the park. Anyway I'm just not going to pull any punches about this whole dope thing. I discovered this site because a dear friend of mine blew a disc out of his back and is taking time released oxycodone and augmenting it with dilaudid (synthetic morphine). I know what dilaudid is about as I used it for years but I wasn't at all clued about oxycontin. So when the search engine brought me here and I saw some of this silly ass stuf going on about - "well you probably want to go back on methadone and bla bla bla" I'm thinking jesus are these kids on here and if so who is telling them that ****. There are some very wonderful and well meaning people on here and I don't mean to take this to a personal level but there is also some mighty big ass ego stroking going on at the expense of some very naive souls. Straight up your Brightness, not even the well intentioned doc's often have a clue about what the realities are unless they have worked with addicts for a while. They come out of school with the addiction models and certainly the hard facts in place but that's different than experiencing something firsthand repeatedly. What I mean by the 13th step is to wean oneself from a 12 step prgram - when and only when you're ready. I watched my mom become the den mother of her NA group and it was very appropriate for her for some time (years). When she had outgrown it, it naturally took her a while to figure it out and then wean her self out and move on. The tendency for me to be srident here - thats what you sense is really the parent in me and springs from feeling so passionately about not wanting people to have to go through what my family - nuclear and extended have been through because of this. I hope this gives you at least a little insight. I'm winking at you right now ~_~
David

by siliconboy, Apr 08, 2001 12:00AM

To: Brighty

I failed to answer one of your questions. How did I get to where I am? First you must understand that it was a very long process. I started using drugs as a child, age 6. It was prolific and generally accepted - the subliminal if not overt messages were that "better life through chemistry" was ok. That's probably ok for 90% of the population at any one given time. But for those of us that fall into that other category - addictive it's a real bad recipe. So after the bullshit of just expereincing it personally and seeing firsthand - friends dead, dad drank himself to death, mom with the valium thing - I was fed up. I used my love for my children, the fact that I wanted a quality of life that I had actually "owned" at times in my life - used those as anchors to move forward. It's a weird deal for me because once I get past it for a while it's just over, never happened.
The last time I went through it (heroin) may have acually saved my life - literally kept me from suicide. When I was living in Portland and went through that whole depression thing - wow it sucked. Then the neurotransmitter reuptake inhibitor **** the doc gave me did something so tweky to my brain it scared me to try anything else and that totally compounded everything. I felt very stuck. I moved back to California to get out of the 6 months of gray winters. I spend a lot of time with the goonager. We build race cars together and generally make havoc in the hood. I did everything I could to not take drugs normal stuff that I like. Working, playing with the hotrods, going to movies, taking the boat out - harrasing the kids. The awful part of dope addiction for me is what it does to my motivation and pleasure center. I had to fake it for a long time until i did start to enjoy life again. It helped that I didn't really hang with dope fiends. I knew some for sure but the ones that were my friends didn't live near me.
Like I always say everyone has to find ther own way out but surely there are some common denominators.
Love
David

by Brighty, Apr 08, 2001 12:00AM

To: Siliconboy

Thank you for your candor.... I think it helps for us to know that there are real live people behind the monikers and first impressions are not to be held onto here. Everyone is the way they are for a reason. And most of us do have some deep hurts.
I am partaicularly grateful for your story because of my daughter's addiction. I want to understand and also know the mechanisms at work in the brain.

I would like to cut and paste your 2 complete posts above to my e-mail and send to a young man who is now on heroin... he began to e-mail me after coming to this board once or twice. I know he does not come here anymore....too much stuff to read through... so this may be something for him to read... that's all... it's a long process and good input with hope attached is not wasted in the long run. OK ??

Love, Brighty

by siliconboy, Apr 08, 2001 12:00AM

To: Brighty

shttp://www.asktom-naturally.com/naturally/brain.html

Thanks for the kind words. You might want to check out the deal above. You are more than welcome to send whatever to whomever - I am humbled. My life is an open book - my mom has always said that I never met a stranger and I wasn't raised around secret keepers in spite of the alcohol and drugs. We are all the same here on the planet where all things are allowed. Some of us are a bit deeper emotionally or intellectually for genetic and environmental reasons but basically we all come to this gig alone, do what we can and leave it alone (by ourselves). I want to share a bit of love while I'm here. Capricorn and all that don't ya' know. I dragged my oldest son out of house almost two years ago and took him to rehab. It was along time in coming but his Mom - God love her - was his major enabler as she was mine when we were still married, and I didn't hold a chance in hell until she felt helpless. I had seen it when I came down from Portland and stayed with them for Christmas - 98. I told her when I left "when it got bad enough to call me". She called me in tears May 5th. I was on the plane the next day. It took me 10 days to track him down. His mother had put him in a rehab in Stockton where he met a 25 year old female in group that was a fellow crackhead and "doing" outpatient. Long story short - she had just inherited 2 million dollars, had a small mansion in a gated community and a brand new black Acura. Let's see now - he's 18 they are both physically geogeous into the same **** bla, bla, bla - what decision was there to be made here? Stay in rehab or jump and run. When I finally had the lawyers tell the hospital that if they didn't at least tell me this girls parents phone number they were looking at an ugly court battle we found him. He looked like he was almost dead. He told me that he had been parking on railroad tracks in the middle of the night he was so depressed. He stayed in rehab, went to a recommended halfway house for 6 months afterward and is now working and attending college. He is my shining light. I moved down here shortly after that because mom needs help with junior. She is far to sweet to deal with these knucklheads alone. This one has two daddy's to contend with. Me and his step dad whom I am very close too as well. This is another chapter that hopefully will shed some light on my concern for anyone going through addiction / recovery.
love and light Brighty
David

by susanlea, Apr 15, 2001 12:00AM

It's Easter Sunday. I have noticed on the forum, several people are alone today. This is the first Easter, my children and I have been alone. He chose his addiction over us. It's been a month since he's been gone, I hope he's doing well on the methadone although he takes as much as he wants. All the oxy's and methadone have made him angry and mean, all he wants is to be left alone, he wants no help or love. We went to church today, it's been over 15 years since I've been, and I prayed and I prayed, and then someone said a prayer for those with addictions,and I felt so much peace. I finally realized I'm not alone, and It's time I took care of my children and myself and stop obsessing about him and his addiction. May everyone out there have at least one day of peace....Love Susanlea

by susanlea, May 06, 2001 12:00AM

I just reread every posted comment on this thread. What a reality check, I posted a question a month ago tomorrow. Guess what he's still getting methadone every 2 weeks from His Dr. only he's upped the dose. Still no program, clinics, sponsers, just his usual bottle of pills, there's no control over how much he takes, amazing a private physician can do this, just keeping him addicted. If he doesn't have to go to the streets, and it only cost him $5 a script, why quit! love you guys, Susanlea

by kalin, Aug 16, 2008 09:03AM

To: anyone it may help

I was a herion addict for over six years and a drug addict since I was 14. I tried many times to quit on my own, through countless rehab clinics, etc. Then two years ago I was desperate to stop and started in a metadone maintance program (wanted a metahdone detox program but wasn't available where I was living) Looking back I had been using drugs for so long that a 30-45 day detox program probably wouldn't have worked for me. I started on 40 mgs then eventually made my way all the way up to 100mgs. Well I was tired of being on drugs and yes methadone is still a drug. Its has many costs just as heroin,oxy,morphine etc. do. So I started tappering off going down 10 mgs every two weeks. I was on wafers so it was either 10 or 5 mg every two weeks. I decided to be brave and do 10mgs, and much to my suprise I felt ok. Now when i say ok I mean no heavy withdraw. Everything was going well till i got to about 30 mgs. So when i talked with my clinic they said i should consider staying on methadone at 30 mgs, like it was an impossible task to get off this sh*t, well obviously this isn't what i wanted and as much as i do believe they care for addicts and are aware of how to treat us but I also know Metahdone is BIG bussiness I paid $250 a month and know people who paid as much as $20 a day.So againist their advise I asked to be put on liquid methadone and went down 1mg every two days and have been doing well. I will say I have less energy towards the end of the day and can't sleep for 10 hours like I used to, I usually can't sleep past 6 am which is usually when I take my dose so that tells me it lasts less than 24 hours. I am on 12 mgs and am very happy I made the choice to stop.

by lisa650, Aug 16, 2008 09:36AM

To: Kalin

Hi there, i hope you keep us posted as you keep on lowering your dose. I also have been on methadone before long term and 21 day detox. So r u going down 1 mgm a week?

by catmagnet, Aug 16, 2008 09:55AM

This is a 7-year-old post....=/

by memorys, Aug 18, 2008 10:53PM

what you should do is DO NOT QUIT COLD TURKEY.
if you take heroin more than 3 days in a row you will become addicted.
if you quit cold turkey it can lead to death.
take morphine instead and take less and less of it each time, untill your completely off it. and once your off it stay away from it completely

by oldhippie000, Jan 13, 2009 08:38PM

To: anyone who can help

I was in an accident on my job and lost mt left leg 10 yrs ago. You can guess the rest,morphine for 4 yrs. Methadone for the last 6 yrs,starting at 160mgs a day so yes I am hooked good. Anyhow I am down to 30 mgs a day slowly from 50 mgs a day 2 monthes ago.The pain clinic is closing and the nearst one is 100 miles away. Not that it matters I want of the Methadone I hate taking the pills. The clinic is closing in 2 monthes so I have 60 maybe 75 days to get off the Methadone.I am feeling it now a little,so I want to know what will help. Vitamins,food,over the counter meds. I heard benadryl helps. I am 54 and healthy other wise. I do smoke pot.

by Memo911, Feb 04, 2009 05:03PM

everywhere i look people are looking for help, looking for some way to have a normal life. and god im one of them. when will doctors finally realize methadone isnt an answer to addication. i was hooked on 80mg x15-20 aday for 4 years. and to be completely honest the withdraws from the oxys was much easier to deal with. i see new people weekly coming into the clinic and i feel for them because ya its great at first but i know they are going to have to go through what im going through now and it just kills me. i always try to tell them but of coarse they dont lesson.
Ive been trying to find a not so painful and lengthly way to get off methadone. i cant go back to work till i get off this ****, and the only thing that ive found world wide that works at all (for me) is to, go pick up some morphene. this is how im doing it right now. every 50mls of methadone i was on is 100mg of morphene i was on 220mls of methadone so i started at 400mgs of morph and everyday i go down. if i wake up and dont feel to good that day ill only go down 10-20 but if i wake up and im on top of the world ill go down 35-50. the way i made the transzion was to stop taking my methadone and waited until i just couldnt take it anymore, also dont get the morph before hand wait until your not taking your methadone. i waited 2 extras days just cause i didnt want to go out side. ive been doing this for about 10days and im down to 210mgs. dont think this is fun. remember we're on a very painful drug because of another drug so if your serious about coming off the methadone try this. you wont feel good but i sleep at night and i can go out, not for long periods, im not playing basketball or anything but instead of taking years this will hopefully only take a month or two.
im not saying everyone should do what im doing but if you need to get off the methadone for some reason that you just cant wait the years maybe think about this. but if you have the time why bother. if i was 50+ id just stay on methadone but im only 22 years old and i need to get moving again.
well i hope that helped some people, just remember this if you got addicted to a drug before. tomato-tomata, a drug is a drug be careful and make sure you go down daily
PS sorry about the spelling, lol

by bethany81, Mar 15, 2009 08:24AM

methadone is evil.

by RANDO88, May 27, 2009 03:48PM

To: Considering METHADONE ??

SUBOXONE is far superior, even at the high cost.

by RANDO88, May 28, 2009 10:24AM

To: METHADONE BUSINESS

AFTER 5 TIMES AT METHADONE CLINICS ( OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WORK ) I TRIED SUBOXONE.... I WAS CLEAN IN 3 WEEKS. I BELIEVE THIS IS THE "BEST" OPTION...NOT PERFECT----BUT THE BEST WAY TO GO.

by 404megan, Aug 29, 2009 10:40AM

To: all

suboxone comes in a pill... i have been prescribed to it!!!

i have had both suboxone and methadone and methadone worked far better... but everyone is different and what works for some will not work for others...

hey everyone... i have always heard that coming off methadone was horrible and worse than coming off any other opiate.. i myself was a really bad heroin addict for three years and when no other clinic or medicine would work to help me come off the heroin i turned to methadone... i have been on it for 3 months ... i started with an adjusted dose of 60 and about a month ago i started to come down from 60 to 50, then 50-40, and like that at 10mgs a week and now i am at 20... when coming down some on the dose i only experienced very mild w/ds for only the first 3 days and it was only at night a few hours before i was suppose to take my medicine that i felt it... i have always feared coming off it but my own experience has been nothing like wat everybody else has said i dont know why... but i am grateful it is not painful like everyone else says... although i prob should have been on a much higher dose i realized the higher you start out on the longer and harder it will probably be to ocme off... so i recommend that ppl start on a low dose under 80 if you really want to quit and then taper off at 5-10 mgs a week... good luck to all those who still suffer



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