How come day 5 is still so bad?

[1st24]

I'm in the middle of day 5, and I really feel terrible today.  Restless leg syndrome is back, and feel cold, shaky, depressed, anxious.  And really alone.  Any suggestions.  I'm on the recipe.

[misd]

HI, First question if you dont mind me asking? What were you using? Second question, How long were you taking it? I myself had been using hydro, lortab,lorcet, anything with hydrocodone in it. Today is day 8 for me, I am finally starting to feel better, im still depressed, it will take time, I am doing this cold turkey, well with the help of some nerve meds at night, you will have to let us know what is was that you were on in order for us to get some kind of idea on how bad it was and how much you were taking a day. But hang in there, it will get better.
mis

[Starraven]

Yes, what were you taking and how long?  Took me 30 days to feel normal.  Which is probably not the norm, but its different for everyone.  Lizzy is on day 19 and still suffering. Its hard, but we can't expect a miraculous recovery, it took time to become dependent, and it will take time for our bodies to adjust to not having the drug.
Hugs and good luck to you
Suze

[1st24]

I was on 80 -120 mgs. oxycontin as well as 40 mg 100/325 hydrocodone, known as narco.  I've been on that high dosage for only about 3 months, but for a year was taking between 80-140 mgs. hydrocodone a day, and before that, six years of about 10-20 mgs. day of hydrocodone.

[1st24]

And since day 2, last Thursday, I,ve been taking Ultram - about 400 mgs. a day.  Haven't had any of that since last night.

[1st24]

Do you think I've just postponed my wd's from the opiates by taking the Ultram, and that this is really day 1 not day 5?  Or am I just being paranoid?  Or both!

[Sundown]

If you just stopped the ultram, that may be the cause. Ultram, the "non-narcotic" narcotic might have blunted some of your withdrawl symptoms the first 5 days (and that can help, although more common to use bup or darvon) and now you are left with no opiates in your system. If you got this far, you'll make it the rest of the way! Maybe you will need an extra few days, but you WILL feel better (at least from the acute withdrawl). Then, slowly, the remainder of your withdrawl syndrome will fade (the moods, energy, sleeplessness etc.).

Hang in there! If you're tempted to restart the ultram based on what I've said, DON'T. Long term ultram use can be as difficult if not worse to detox from than hydro based on the postings of those who have gone through it here.

Congratulations on making it this far!

Sundown

[1st24]

Thank you.  I was tempted to take the ultram, but haven't.  I can't function at all today, and this feels so bad.  Think I'll try a hot bath. And stay in bed, and not try to feel normal so fast.  I think I'm such a perfectionist, I expected that by today, I'd pretty much be back to my old zippy, upbeat, energetic, perfect self. Ha-ha.  I'm really, really depressed, and feel like I'm stuck in cement or quicksand.  And I feel anger.  And there's so much that's expected of me in my life, and no one knows that I kept up all that stuff artificially.  Now my husband knows, because I told him.  But I don't think he really gets it.  That all that work I was doing - building a vegetable garden, starting a business, recovering from knee surgery and helping out real soon after, moving, buying a home, building a studio, having a 2nd surgery, him starting a new job - all this in the past year.  I feel I'm close to going mad. And we have responsibilities every day, and I can't even get it together to brush my teeth or take a shower.

[1st24]

I need someone to answer this.  Have any of you experienced suicidal thoughts during the wd's?  Because today, I am, and I'm all alone, for the next 5 hours.  I've taken 2 hot baths, all the ingredients of the recipe, and I still feel like this.  Help!!

[hellbent]

If it's any consolation, I was taking 800mgs oxycontin daily when I quit. I'd been on them steadily for 4 years. Sounds nuts, but it's the truth. Was also adcted to klonopin (10-15mgs a day). My acute pahse of detox lasted almost 4 weeks. Even after that, for another month, I looked like a terminal cancer patient.

So, it's a real good thing that you are choosing to do something before it gets worse.

I had to have faith things would get better when I was in the throes of dt. I also couldn't set a time frame for when they would. I just had faith I would eventually heal, and made a committment to ride it out no matter what. The pain is something I'll never forget. It helps me stay clean. Looking back, it was a horrific period, but in the scheme of my entire life, it's not that big a deal. I was almost dead before I quit. Those pills had taken everything from me, including my health. A few months of hell, no matter how terrible, is in retrospect a small price to pay for having another chance at life.

[Sundown]

Feelings of depression during withdrawl are very common. Do you have a history of depression in the past? If you do, withdrawl will worsen it. Do you really feel you are at risk of hurting yourself? If so, GET HELP NOW. If it's the kind of thought of "I'd rather be dead than going through this", thats something I think we have all faced. I know you've been feeling depressed since you started withdrawl, as I remember your questions about St. Johns Wort.
Just take it a moment at a time, and remember "this too shall pass". It may sound trite, but it's true. BUT, if the depression really is that overwhelming that your suicidal thoughts represent a risk to yourself, call your doctor, your family, a crisis hotline, anything to keep from acting on those feelings. Life is too precious, and you've already commited yourself to life by taking the very brave step of stopping the madness of abuse. Don't give up.

We're all here for you.
Sundown

[1st24]

Thank you so much for your advice.  I think I may call a crisis hotline, and after that, do some gentle Yoga.  Some deep breathing may be called for at this point!  And stretching these muscles will probably help, too.  As far as the Ultram, I talked to my doctor today, told him I've stopped all opiates since last Wed.  Asked his opinion re Ultram.  He thought that I should take it in small doses for my knee and tendinitis pain, especially so I wouldn't be tempted to go back on the heavy opiate use.  As far as depression, I've never really experienced it, except after having my son 33 years ago.  That is, until I started taking the large doses of oxy - that really was a depressant.  That's when I tried the St. John's Wort.  Didn't really help,though.  Well, thank you again, and I hope when I come through this someday, I can be of some help to a newcomer, too.

[GOD]

Sorry to break the thread, but I have a question about Buprenorphine....

I talked to the pain clinic today, and mentioned BUPRENORPHINE (or Buprenex) to one of the docs... They MAY put me on this medication for pain, but I'll find out on Thursday. Anyway, I have been taking VERY LOW doses of this medication (.2 Milligram sublingual tab, 3 times per day) starting yesterday, and it REALLY WORKS! I do not feel "Out if it" in any way, and this is the best med I've taken yet for Neuropaty because instead of "Masking" the pain like Morphine or Oxy would, The pain REALLY seems to have [mostly] gone away. I'm interested if this is the results you (Mariposa) get with this medication, or is it something like Ultram in that people can build up a pretty hefty tolerance for it? I looked at prices in [Legal] US pharmacies, and it seemed VERY EXPENSIVE.... for instance, see below:
*****************************************************
Walgreens Pharmacy:
Buprenex
Dosage Forms Qty   Price  
BUPRENEX 0.3MG/ML, 1ML AMP 1 EA $8.99



Drug Information For: BUPRENEX 0.3MG/ML, 1ML AMP
Generic Name: BUPRENORPHINE (byoo-pre-NOR-feen)

Drug Manufacturer: RECKITT & COLMAN
******************************************************

Does one amp = One dose?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out here!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[Thomas02]

day 90 ain't no picnic, either. Sorry.

Thomas

[Sugarbeens]

Hi there.  I read everyday , just don't post much.  Talk to your doc about the depression.  You can go on an anti-depressant for a while and won't get addicted.  If you are feeling this depressed, than please get help.  Paxil worked for me and others here have taken other perscription anti=depressants.  The recipe works better for some than others.  If you do go on an anti-depressant, than don't take the L-tyrosine and Htp, just the regular vitamins like B-6, magnesium , etc.  But, please talk to your doctor, and you don't have to tell him about the suicidal thoughts.  Just tell him you are depressed and it is from stopping the meds.  Call a sucidide hotline or maybe NA and just talk on the phone.  It will be confidential!!! Hang in there, I was extremely depressed too, but, amazingly it gets better, and you get your life back.  You will feel better than ever!!! I am praying for you and the others.  Love to all!

[Sugarbeens]

Hi Thomas. Saw you just posted.  Are you detoxing again and on day 90.  I am thinking about you and you know you will make it.  You have saved many lives on this forum  Take care.
Butterbean

[Thomas02]

are you kidding? I detox for 3 weeks then I score at my doctors and start all over again. See, I just love opiates. I don't have any pain issues. Just a Naked Lunch-type fiend.

Thomas

[1st24]

Thomas, thank you - you actually made me laugh.  I did call a suicide hotline, and the woman did help a bit.  Also called an ex-addict who I helped when he detoxed from 1-3 grams of heroin a day!  So he really knows what we're going through.  I'm feeling better now, esp[ecially when Thomas put things in perspective.  After all, my day 5 is just ending, and I am using Ultram, and used less of it today than yesterday.  I can't do my Yoga just yet, but when I get the energy for it, I'll let you know if it is helpful.  It's helped me in the past both physically and mentally.  It gives you an inner strength and peacefulness, as well as putting all your organs and glands back into working order. Peace to all of you, from the Redwoods on the North Coast of CA.

[cheermom]

misd:  i just saw your post of 11/7.  i'm so glad you have a supportive husband, i'm sure it makes things a little bit easier.  just hang in there, it definitely gets better, a little bit at a time.  

taeme:  hadnt heard from you but see youve been posting so i'm hoping everything is okay?  i must be losing it because i am so confused about which b-vitamin boosts energy.  is it B2, B4, OR B6?  whichever one it is do i also take a good multi-vitamin also?  sorry i cant seem to get it straight.

hope everyone is having a great day and night!

[LizzyM]

I feel worse than ever today.  I really feel like I am dying a slow death--not by choice.  I am on Zoloft and Trazadone which I was on before all the hydro addiction and I did very well with them.  I had Post-Partum Depression right after my twins were born; the doc put me on Zolft and Trazadone and whola..everything was normal again and couldn't understand what the hell I was so down about??  Now, here I am again, and it's worse. My husband called the Detox center and they said they were too busy to talk to him!!  They did say that this is NOT withdrawals but something else must be going on???  I feel like I am alone and lost..

[cheermom]

i'm sorry i dont have any advice/wisdom to share with you.  i just wanted to let you know i'm thinking of you.  just remember you are not alone.  you have your husband and you always have this board.  its incredible how much strength and knowledge i've gotten since coming here.  i'm sure someone will post to you some kind of advice on what you are going through.

[suzieneedshelp]

Where r u?
"Su...z"

[Sundown]

I have a history of pretty resistant depression. Meds would work a bit for a while then lose their effect. It wasn't until working through 3 pdocs that I found one who came up with a  cocktail that finally took my depression AWAY. Not just better, but GONE. I don't know how long it will stay like this, but I plan on making the most of it. And if it ever stops, I'll sure be aggresive (aggressive) about finding a treatment that works. All of us have our own unique brain chemistry, and what works for one may not for another. If you're not getting relief from what you are on, TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR. Maybe you need to go up on the dose because right now you need more to restore balance in your brain. Maybe you need a different med. That I can't tell you. But I can tell you that having suffered for 5 years without a good response and not complaining or speaking up, I ended up addicted to hydro instead. It wasn't until I stood up and decided I was tired of the slow death I was going through that I sought out and found help.

We're all here for you. I do know how you feel, and my heart goes out to you for the pain you're in. I pray you'll find the answers that work for you.

Sundown

[GOD]

Estimado Suzanne,



Estoy aquí en computadoras de fijar de trabajo. ¿Qué hace usted esta noche? ¿Miran usted los retratos de Gallos? ¡Yo Gallos malos, no genitales!



Yo me soy cansado, pero volveré hogar en acerca de 9:30 o 10:00 esta noche. Espero que usted lo pasen bien en la Florida. Buenas noches, y el dulce sueña.



El sr. Jess Peterson

[hellbent]

Regarding the depression, I remember just wanting to die. I remember considering suicide, and actually thinking that I was too weak to get it done.

If you are like me, the depression was caused by lack of endorphins being created naturally, as is the case after long term opiate use. I was doubly affected by total lack of self esteem and the feeling like I was utterly worthless.

The point being I personally didn't need antidepressants, though most "addiction experts" and ex-addicts reccomended I get some. I was sick of taking pills, and resisted. I've never had "clinical depression". The depression I get, and it has been terrible at times, has been due to either not feeling like I was anything because I was on drugs, or misery because I wanted drugs and couldn't get them. It comes down to being a fairly self centered human being, for me.

A quick, dissenting note on the recipe thing: none of that stuff did JACK for me, and I tried everything. In fact, it made my digestive system considerably worse and prolonged my diahrrhea (it's ok, we can talk about those things here)

I began to excercise again, and perhaps more importantly, got out of the house and got involved in life. No more spending time alone in front of the tv, on drugs or just obsessing about them. It was so hard at first, but 6 mos later my life today has completely changed.

[suzieneedshelp]

i dont speak spanish!  Took french and german!  It looks intriguing though!
Suu...zzzz
Plz translate on e-mail..thx hon

[GOD]

Suzanne,



Je suis ici dans la salle informatique au travail. Que faites-vous cette nuit? Regarde des images de Coq? Je les Coqs moyens, pas genitals!



Je me suis fatigué, mais je retournerai la maison à de 9:30 ou 10:00 cette nuit.



Le bon soir, et les rêves doux.



M.. Jess Peterson

[GOD]

Suzanne,



Ich bin hier im Computerzimmer bei der Arbeit. Was machen Sie diese Nacht? Anschauen von Bildern des Hahns? Ich MittelRoosters, nicht genitals!



Ich bin mich selbst müde, aber ich werde Heim an ungefähr 9:30 oder 10:00 diese Nacht zurückkehren.



Guten Abend und süße Träume.



Herr. Jess Peterson

[Chezz2]

Guten Abend und süße Träume?

Chezz

[Chezz2]

LOLOL

De quels coqs vous parlez?

Chezz

[suzieneedshelp]

Omg..how many languages are you fluent in?>
Suu...zzzz

[suzieneedshelp]

hey u!
Suzie

[LizzyM]

My husband is taking me to our family practitionor tomorrow morning.  The nurse said that I could have an inner ear infection with the dizziness, headaches, and throbbing right eye,  My husband says I looked stoned,,and I am not using anything??!!!  I hope they figure this out..this is not like me.  I have everything to live for and yet I feel like I am dying a slow torturas death.  My sister in coming in from Fla on Thurs..I can't let her see me like this!  
Thnaks for all the support..talking with all of you gives me alot of hope that I will be my happy loving self again.  I couldn't do this without all of your support.  Thanks from the bottom of my heart..me going to bed now..I'm so tired.

[Chezz2]

Nihongo ga dekimashta?

Eigo ga skoshi dekimas. Shi des.

Chezz

[Chezz2]

Whats up Suz. I just got on here tonight and couldn't pass up the chance to post. Especially since Jess asked something about roosters. LOL

Chezz

[puma]

Jesse,

So you have a computer program that translates languages as you type, how un-impressive! All I have to add is

phoenetically spelled.... EE CANA DE MAN'ACHA....CUDA MALENGI?


Chatahan.......wildcat

[GOD]

Take it easy chatahan... Yes it is OBVIOUSLY a translator program (on a website-- www.freetranslation.com), I'm just having a little fun here. Go bang on that junker!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[Chezz2]

I see nothing has changed here.

Sorry to see. Hope it gets better. It can as long as everyone tries to make it a better place.

Ja Nay,
Chezz

[puma]

Jessee,

What does any of this have to do with addiction? and yes, I am about to go cut my grass to get my mind off withdrawals, thank you. Thought you'd fool the girls huh? I have known too many like you. Take care.

Chatahan........wildcat

[Chezz2]

Jess. Its a pretty good translator. I use it too. Pretty fun actually.

Too bad some people are a little too SPUN to enjoy having a little lighter of a night together!!!

First time back to this site in weeks and nothing has changed. Ahhh, how refreshing it is.

Chezz

[GOD]

I posted lots of stuff regarding Buprenorphine today.....

Understandably, you have no Idea what this whole (multi-lingual) conversation was about. I know Suzanne Outside this forum, and the whole thing (with the different languages) was about a joke her and I were talking about earlier. I don't need to impress her!

Don't take any of this **** personally! I see Chezz got agravated as well.... Everybody LIGHTEN UP!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[GOD]

Good to see that you understand...

Yes, Nothing has changed. That's why I haven't been here in a little bit. I do most of my posting on the OTHER forum. I will go back there~

~~~~Jess~~~~

[suzieneedshelp]

i used saem program to translate your message!
Urgent...check your  cell vm...
Suzyyyyyy

[GOD]

E-mail me. I don't have my cell phone with me.. I'm at work!

[hellbent]

Not a biggie, it's just that people w/d ing and in search of help and support now need to wade through a bunch of posts that won't help them at all. There are so many ways to connect through the internet - chat, e-mail, etc....just seeme like we could confine our posts here to probalems related to addiction...my .02

[GOD]

Good point. Taken.

In that vein, I will repost my original question.... Seeing as I got a HELL of a lot of responses from my conversation with Suzieneedshelp, Maybe some of you people who are online NOW have some answers~!

Originally posted this morning:

I talked to the pain clinic today, and mentioned BUPRENORPHINE (or Buprenex) to one of the docs... They MAY put me on this medication for pain, but I'll find out on Thursday. Anyway, I have been taking VERY LOW doses of this medication (.2 Milligram sublingual tab, 3 times per day) starting yesterday, and it REALLY WORKS! I do not feel "Out if it" in any way, and this is the best med I've taken yet for Neuropaty because instead of "Masking" the pain like Morphine or Oxy would, The pain REALLY seems to have [mostly] gone away. I'm interested if this is the results any of you guys get with this medication, or is it something like Ultram in that people can build up a pretty hefty tolerance for it? I looked at prices in [Legal] US pharmacies, and it seemed VERY EXPENSIVE.... for instance, see below:
*****************************************************
Walgreens Pharmacy:
Buprenex
Dosage Forms Qty Price
BUPRENEX 0.3MG/ML, 1ML AMP 1 EA $8.99



Drug Information For: BUPRENEX 0.3MG/ML, 1ML AMP
Generic Name: BUPRENORPHINE (byoo-pre-NOR-feen)

Drug Manufacturer: RECKITT & COLMAN
******************************************************

Does one amp = One dose?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out here!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[peaz]

Where's the other forum?  Am I invited?
                    Peaz

[suzieneedshelp]

Hellbent..jesse is not receiving his e-mail! I apologise for this irrevalency  but we met on here...
Jesse...You are not getting my e-mail??
And you are not at your phone?? at work??  I left messages..URGENT SO TO SPEAK!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Suzie

[GOD]

Yes, I got your e-mail, and I replied, Suzanne.
and NO, I'm not at my desk. I am in the main computer room.

[LissaB]

This site was a life saver Thank you to Chezz for all the help!
I am now past 60 days off a 6 year methadone habit.
I am sleeping and eating now though I lost 30 lbs.
I detoxed myself from 80mgs a day to 5mgs when I stopped. I wish someone had mentioned how bad and long the detox was when I got on. I think kicking herion would have been easier!
Every day was a little better and the first two weeks was the worst! I still do not have my energy back but that is slowly getting better too. When I posted here the first time I was hating life and could barely type anything  I had no options
and noone I could talk to about this. It was such a relief to find this site! To anyone going through this kind of detox hang in there it does get better.  I thought it never would I still can hardly believe I am free of the shackles!

[Chezz2]

Thanks Lisa. I remember when you were posting. I am soooooo happy to hear that you are FREE. I bet it feels GREAT.
Looking back on it now though - was it as big of a part of your life as you thought? Or was it just a phase that you had to go through to get you LIFE back?
To me - It seems like a small price to pay to be FREE.
Again, I am so happy to know that you have made it, and are moving on with life, chasing sobriety, not another pill.
Chezz

[puma]

(Hellbent),

Thank you, I could not have said it any better. You are so right. I have been scolded for non-addiction topics in the past with no offense taken. I don't understand how these two take it so personally. Take care, How are you doing by the way?


(Jesse),

You and (Chezz2) are the ones taking things too personally. I could care less how many languages you know or what fun and games you play. This forum is for medical addiction advice not playtime. Nothing personal here, simply a fact.

I think our old imposter is back........ All three of you perhaps? Did you finally get discovered on the other forum site too and decide to try here again? Just a thought, and no I am not in the DT'S, and no offense taken!

Chatahan.......wildcat

[hellbent]

You said...

..."Is there anyone out there who cares about me? How pitiful to have to ask that. "

and...

"But i do care. Too much. It's my downfall. How does one toughin up and become cinical when u are idealistic and don't believe in it?"


First, addicts are by nature often incredibly selfish. I know I am, especially when I am using. I want to say that before I go on cuz I don't want you to think I am bashing you.

But, if you want people to care about you, try caring about them. If you get out of yourself and respond with truth and compassion to others, you will get it back. I haven't sensed that kind of compassion and honesty in your recent posts here, and perhaps others haven't either. This may be why you are not getting the feedback you appear to want from us.

Ask yourself what you mean when you say you "care too much". I am unclear what you actually mean by that. It sounds much simpler to me: it sounds like people are simply not responding to you as you would have them respond, and it's making you upset.

I'm really walking on eggshells here: I do not want to offend you. We are ALL addicts here and we ALL need to learn to live and think differently if we are going to survive clean.

[groovygirl]

I think what the last poster said is true...

If you mostly post about your love life, etc., you aren't going to get what you need most from this forum.  It sounds like you found someone you can relate to, but it can't work unless you straighten out other things in your life.  Finding a new relationship can't fix the old problems...it can be a distraction, that's for sure but the old stuff will still be there.  People used to tell me that I can't find happiness with another person unless I am happy on my own...happy with just myself.  I hate when people throw those things out at me, but that one has proven to be true.

I notice you post a lot of phrases and other people's sayings, but you don't post a lot about how you are doing.  I think people would respond more to posts about your battle with addiction, and you'd get the feedback you are looking for.

[suzieneedshelp]

Wut can i say to all of the above.  I have had a terrible day and felt helpless and so i came here for refuse. WEll, now how do u think i feel?  Better, not!  This board is for us to share our life experiences with addiction which includes our moods and functioning throughtout life, including relationships.  I never intend to flaunt anything, on the contrary I thought that sharing how people might connect could be helpful to some lonely ones out here.  Even though i realise that is not the purpose of this board, well interpersonal connection is very relevant.  I guess i was wrong to think that.  You people do not know me from Adam and to jump to conclusions about my motives is not fair.  Evidentally you have not noticed the complimentw i have received on helping others here.  But since i myself am a medical professional i am very careful wut i say since i am not an expert and am still using. Don't want to contribute to the blind leading the  blind.   WEll, lately i have not been as active on here.  I am a therapist and a nurturer all my life.  Always have taken care of everyone else to my detriment.  But now i am suffering myself thank you!  So yes i am fricken selfish!  To top it off, my hormones are screwed today and so that makes me practicaly temp insanity!
Plz do not lash out at desparate people.  WE need to support one another and offer constructive/ factual advice rather than judging one another.  I know my brain is screwed.  But i need you people so much!  
Plz do not push me away like Chezz was.
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

i do not ever recall calling Jesse "my Jesse" on this board.  He is not mine.
Suzie

[groovygirl]

You may not recall doing it, but you have several times.  The fact that you don't recall it is something to think about.  

I think people have pointed out some very valid things to you, and I think it could be taken in a constructive way.  Being a martyr doesn't do anyone any good.  I didn't see anyone "lash" out at you - I saw people (myself included) who didn't appreciate the love notes on the board. No one said anything for a long time.  "Sharing how people connect" isn't necessarily helpful to the people here who are looking for help with their addictions.

I hope you can stop feeling sorry for yourself and start doing what you need to do to really feel better.

[puma]

Suzie,

I have posted in the past to you on numerous occasions when you first came to the forum and gave you all the support I could about your addiction. But lately I feel like your posts are more for the personal ad forums and therefore I don't respond. When it becomes too much, then I say something I did like yesterday.

All I responded in my own language was, "Oh this is irritating"......WHO ARE YOU?   That's it, no swearing or accusations.

You have to admit if you are detoxing, say run out of pills, or whatever, you don't want to read the personal ads, you go to the addiction forum for advice or at least to see others struggling the same way. Like I said yesterday, (Nothing personal against you), just a correction. I have been corrected in the past for babbling about typhoons. What addict wants to hear about that either? especially if it goes back and forth between writers and you have to wade through it all. You'd probably tell us to go to the weather forum!

We all care about you and you getting clean and sober, is that what you want from us?

Chatahan........wildcat

[hellbent]

"You people do not know me from Adam"

Not true. If you are an addict, I know you. I "get" you. This is good and bad, and you have to take both. The good is that I can relate to probably anything you are going through regarding addiction. The bad is that I have a sensitive bullshit detector, and can easily pull your cover, as people in my life can do for me when I am deluded. This type of honesty is where growth starts, and is a very powerful form of, in your words "interpersonal communication".

Speaking for myself, I am not in any way getting off on thrashing you. I see someone who is fighting recklessly against perceived insults and rejection. Let go, open your heart, and let it hear truth. If you truly let go and are open, you WILL hear it, and be able to distinguish those posts that are honestly helpful and those that are slightful.

I'm interested in this thread because, for me, it goes to the heart of what recovery is all about: triumphing over the character defects that are blocking our growth. Things like alienation, rejection, and selfishness. I am no better than anyone else and I struggle with this **** every day.

[suzieneedshelp]

ty soo much.  We are addicts and it is a disease.  We all need some empathy from time to time. We all feel sorry for ourselves at times and then resulting from that get back on our feet outa anger and a need/ inner motivation to rebound from feeling sorry for ourselves.  WE have an empty space in our soul we are trying to fill.  I appreciate being challenged here. Do not appreciate judgmentalism.     Who does?  Yes, I need help stopping the drugs.  But i know it has to be me and me alone.  That's it we are all essentially alone, in this battle against our nemesis.  
Peace to your life!
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

i will not talk to you on here. enough repercussions.  
suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

THANK YOU!
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

WEll, i reached out and man did i get response.  It is hard to handle but  some of it is very helpful and challenging.  Ty for those that care and are not showing anger.  I do not respond well to anger.  
Peace and growth to all of you!
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

Listen we apologised.  I believe its significant we met on here and became close.  Addicts can be very lonely.  WE are all connected in so many ways. To see two building something from here is a good thing.
No more personal posts we said.  Part of the unfortunate repercusions from the  imposter where all the  quickly made accusations. Chezz and Jesse are real.  As am i.
Take care,
Suzie

[puma]

Suze,

I never mentioned names. In fact there is a song my ex-boyfriend wrote called, Me, Myself and I. That would really mean one person, not three.

I simply made a statement. Take it as you wish, but I really do need to go start my grass ctting so I can finish before dark. Thanks for your reponse though.

Chatahan.....wildcat

[Chezz2]

The reason I stopped posting and left the site altogether was because of how quickly people turned and started accusing.

This was after a lot of people said how much they enjoyed my posts, writing, and support. That felt good. Until the minute something went haywire and a few people started accusing me and jumping on the bandwagon.

Like the person that was messing with the forum said - it is funny how everybody suddenly turned on everyone just like that! Pretty sad, actually.

No biggie though. Life, the net, this forum will go on. So have I.

I hope everyone that is going through withdrawals right now is making it through. Just remember, one min. down, one hour down, one day down, it will get better. Time is the only thing standing in your way to being FREE.
Be proud and happy you have made it this far. It is one step closer than you ever thought you would be from the pills. You are almost FREE.

Chezz

[puma]

Chezz2,

As you may recall, I was one of the few who supported you through the accusations. So what's the beef?

Chatahan.......wildcat

[taeme]

I haven't been here long but I don't see why everyone if freaking out about the possible love affair. I say good for them. I'm sure they have heard enough about people not liking the way they write to each other, I sure they won't do it anymore.  In other words I think they get the picture.  I say we end this conversation and leave them alone.  Besides its good to see that you can build a relationship after drugs.  So lets give'em a hand, then lets give'em a break.

[taeme]

Please can anyone suggest a way to relax, I am so anxious and restless for the past 4-5 days. I can't focus.  Any suggestions besides hot baths and exercise?  Anything over the counter?  Or any other non med solutions? If your up tonight please respond somehow. TAEME

[taeme]

Bonjour mais amie,
Je peux parlais le francais aussi, mais je ulitize pas une program de translation.  Je ne sais pas beaucoup d'Allemand, juste un peux.  Aurevour.

Cheermom, I'm here. Doing fine.  I posted a message for you about 3-5 message strings down.  How're you doing?

1st24
Hang in there were all pulling for you. I know there is hope. When it gets to bad you can go to a county, regional etc... free clinic and they can help you get the help and meds you need, with the utmost discretion.  I went once when I felt like it was that or something way worse.  It wasn't bad at all, in fact it made me feel better that I wasn't alone, I did have a problems, someone cared, I wasn't crazy and some could and wanted to help me.  These places have names like mental health clinic, region 8  this is just an example so maybe you could locate something like this.  Also, maybe one of the hotline can recommend something to you, near you and something that doesn't cost you an arm and a leg.  As a matter of fact, these places that I speak of, if you can't pay are free, and if you do pay its based on income and is like 5-15 dollars a visit. (This is a rough estimate).  Just thought this might help.  It sure made me feel better.  Also, they started me on prozac another one of those SSRI's like paxil and Zoloft.  These are good cause they can help, also have the least side effects if any(depends on the person), and has the least interactions(unlike MAOI's). Not to say if thats what you need you shouldn't take it, but its very restrictive.  One last note the SSRI's really do need about a month to really take effect, you might feel better starting around 2 weeks but usually a month or so.(Your doc may need to adjust the dose and or add additional meds).  So if you do start a program with clinic, doc, mental health just be aware it will be a little while but without actually realizing it, you will feel better and start engaging more and more in life.

  HEART TAEME

[athena]

Good morning all,I havn't had much time to post lately but I watched something on discovery last night that you all may find interesting.
I have OCD like many of you probably do.It seems to go hand in hand with depression.Drs have discovered that a 15mg dose of morphine about every 4 days,really eases the obsessions and helps people get their lives back.It works on the brain chemistry to change obsessive thoughts and behaviors.I think addicts have figured this out a long time ago.Maybe science will finally catch up with the biochemical aspect of addiction/depression/ocd etc.Maybe one day they will start treating depression with opiates(just kidding)lol

pixi

[groovygirl]

Suzie - No offense...really...but it is annoying to have to sift though all the love notes to find the addiction stuff.  It may be relavant to you that you and Jesse met here, but at this point, we all know you guys have a thing going and it might be better to everyone if you kept it private.  Like someone else said, there are SO many other ways for you two to communicate...just try to remember, there are people here looking for help.

Jesse - Buprenex is a great pain med, but don't fool yourself into thinking it isn't addicting.  It is.  Yes it is expensive, and for whatever reason, many insurance companies don't cover it.  $8.99 per amp is WAY more than I pay - it's more than 50% more than I pay.  How much will you be taking per day?  0.3 - 1 amp is 1 vial...they come in little, glass ampules.  Will you be injecting IM, or are you going to stick with the subs?

[groovygirl]

I'm really sorry you are feeling so badly.  It is "normal" to feel depression, sometimes severely, during w/d.  

It is very depressing to have no energy, especially when you have been acting like superwoman for so long.  My husband realized that I am not really superwoman, and it was a shock to him.  I too was zooming around like crazy - I could accomplish more in a day than most do in a week.  Now, you will feel all those muscles and pain, and it definitely will slow you down.  Try taking a lot of amino acids.  My doc recommended that, and it really did seem to help.  I'd try to stay away from the "non-narcotic narcotic" - it will only dull your senses and prolong the inevitable. I've heard 30 days is about the norm for your body to start to feel the way it used to...it's different for everyone, so don't get discouraged or convince yourself there is some magic number or days until you feel good again...just have faith that you will.

Good luck...hot baths were the key to my sanity when going through detox.

[MethMan]

LissaB, your story on Methadone is VERY similar to mine.  Right now, I am on Day 9 of W/D's.  It's not as bad as the first few days, but none the less, rough.

When did you start feeling that you were going to be fine? 10 days, 2 weeks, 3, a month?  I know everyone is different, I am just trying to get some sort of guide.  My use was 40mg per day for 10 years.

Another concern that I have that I sure could use some help on from anyone is this:

Does the brain rewire or is the damage permanent?  I sure would hate to know I had to feel like this for the rest of my life.

Thanks for the info folks, you people have been a god-send to me.

All the best,
Mike

[bmac]

It doesn't last forever.I was on 60 then down to 40 mgs a day
for over a year.I can't imagine being on it for ten years,Jesus.
The brain fog was the worst for me.The physical withdrawals lasted a couple of weeks then after finding the forum and getting the recipe,I started to get better.(phenobarb and clonidine also).After day 20 I felt like a human again.I went back and read some of my posts from then and man I was a screwed up puppy for sure.
Keep it up and you will get better.
                                  bmac

[MethMan]

THANK YOU SO MUCH bmac.  Every time I come here, you always have the words that encourage me. 20 days... I can do that. I'm sort of getting the beginnings of that "Brain Fog" I've read from other posts of yours now.   I know the time line you generously provided me is just a guide for me to go by, but at least I know someone else has been through a Methadone withdrawal and came out fine.

People, if you're trying to kick pills and considering Methadone, please reconsider.  I kicked pills in 2 weeks before and felt OK. A month and I was up and going fine.  Methadone on the other hand is a HARD kick and last much longer.  Take the hard hit upfront from the pills.  That's just my advice, that's all.  Do what's best for you, but know that Methadone is rough.

BMAC, You have no idea how much hope your post gave me.

All the best,
Mike

[bmac]

Yeah I understand.I came here and got the same thing.
It is a good thing to know there are others like us out there.
I just didn't realize that there were so many.I agree methadone is a tuff thing to withdraw from.The things I did during my first two weeks didn't help either.It wasn't until I got here
I began to survive.It's been since Aug 18th since I took my last 10 mgs of methadone.I no longer feel like a zombie.
                              peace,
                               Bill

[druggienomo]

I think day 5 is so bad,because day 5 of using was so good.
I thought I would feel like Hell for 2 days and everything would be fine. I was wrong. I checked myself into rehab, and suffered for 8 days. Then I went home to learn how to walk and smell and taste. HANG IN THERE. Trust me..it will get better. It is worth the pain. I am 26 days clean,and am feeling more normal every day. I am still only at 80% of my old self.
( iused 24/7 with 12-15 Lortab 7.5's and 100mg of Fentanyl daily. You may not be that bad)
Later
Druggie no mo

[GOD]

Regarding the Bup, I think that if they prescribe it, it will be the Ampules. The way I took it for the past couple days was the .2 Mg sublingual pill 3 X daily. I would assume that the doc may put me on a similar dose IM (.3 mil amps 3x daily)--
I know that it's addictive (Especially for people with that Alcoholic/addiction gene) but, Unless I'm mistaken, Buprenorphine has the same effect at lower doses that it does at Higher doses. My point is: If I have to get addicted/Dependant on anything to help the pain, It's better that I get addicted to something that doesn't raise my tolerance each time I take it. In other words, if I get pain relief at a certain level, I'm not going to have to increase my dose every few months like other Opiates, am I?

Thanks,
Jess

[suzieneedshelp]

This grief is all I fricken need in my life right now!
I just need my angel on my shoulder so bad..but I can't feel them.
Suzie

[Starraven]

Forgive me for butting in and forgive me for getting off topic of addiction.

Did you get your post from the translator?  I had to laugh when I read it.  Those translators get everything backwards usually in the German language.  This is how me, a  German read it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I am here in computerroom  at work.  What making you tonight.  I'm watching pictures of a rooster.  I  mittelroosters (what were you trying to type) no genitals. (the translator did not understand the word genitals i imagine.)

I am myself tired, but I want to go home and around 9:30 or 10 this night to come back."

good night and sweet dreams."

Not insulting you at all, just thought it was cute.

Suze

[GOD]

Is there anyone here who knows anything about Temgesic, or Buprenex? Please respond if you're out there!


About the traslator stuff---Yes, It was supposed to be cute. I actully wrote it REALLY messed up in English, and the Web Translator actually fixed a lot of my Deliberate errors~~!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[Sundown]

Welcome. Congratulations on 26 days! I'm at 36 today, and you're so right about how it does get better with time.

You've come to a great place here. I've gotten so much support that I doubt I would have gotten this far without the wonderful people here. You will never find a more suportive bunch of people who are willing to reach out and help you.

Any way we can help or support you, just ask. Everyone here really cares about seeing you succeed.

Sundown

[druggienomo]

Thx a lot. I hope I can hang on and help others to do the same.
My prob is that I know I was physically dependant on opiates, and not an Addict. Does anyone understand this? I went through  8 days and nights of hell in rehab,and now im in outpatient,and going to meetings. I am so tired  of this ****. Im not an addict,but I have to play this game,so everyone knows I am "working the steps" I do NOT want to use again.
I hate the steps, I dont want to see the steps, i want to be stepless.

later,
druggie no mo

[Sundown]

Everyone has to find their own way to stop using drugs. Only you know if you are an addict or not, no one can tell you. But I have to ask you, in your first post here, you said you were using the fentanylc and lortab for headaches (pretty strong combo for headaces) but you "liked the HIGH". Please think about that statement that you wrote. Most people who use opiates for intractable pain aren't doing it for the HIGH. Actually, many don't like the experience. Most of us here did enjoy that high, and thats why we're addicts.

We are both very early in our recovery, about a month each. I know I'm far from over it, and will be struggling for some time. Don't sell yourself short by thinking you're done fighting this demon.

Sundown

[druggienomo]

Thx for the reply. i did like the high. I admit that. I guess I am a junkie. The first time I said that in rehab, I cried. I havent cried in years. just coming out of rehab, then  outpatient,and meetings..Im spending all my time with addicts and alcoholics..will this ever end?
Later,
Druggie no mo

[groovygirl]

I did respond about Buprenex/Temgesic.  WHAT else do you want to know???

[groovygirl]

If the addict in you has anything to say about it, you will want to increase your dose...that has been my experience.

[Sundown]

I cried too when I admitted to myself I was an addict. I was angry, resentful, hated myself and the world. Maybe being surrounded by addicts right now is what we need, because another addict can understand like no one else.

May you find peace and forgiveness.
Sundown

[GOD]

I was just asking about dosage, and how it relates towards long-term use. BUT, you answered that in your "PS" to me.

Thanks a million!
~~~~Jess~~~~

P.S. Are you the ONLY person on this board who uses Buprenorphine? I remember that there was at least 1 other person who was on it, and then they disappered from this forum... Was it Schlub?

[suzieneedshelp]

So...now that i've pissed everyone off with my offtopic comments... Is there anyone out there who cares about me?  How pitiful to have to ask that.  I know the real answer anyway.  You don't know me and I don't know you.  But i do care. Too much.  It's my downfall.  How does one toughin up and become cinical when u are idealistic and don't believe in it?  Is anyone real out there?  Why are so many so angry?  Why is everyone so afraid of loving and being loved?           I'm a hopeless case.  Will i ever be free to be me and free from drugs?  I am who i chose to be, but why does it feel so bad at times?  Will i ever find happiness again?  These questions haunt me every moment.  
Suzie

[MethMan]

Hey... don't be so hard on yourself bud.  There are parts of your story that I can relate to.  Rehab for sure.  I was only suppose to be in there 4 weeks.  Ended up being 6.  How is THAT for fun?  None the less, I am out and on Day 9.  I feel like **** just like you do I am sure. BUT... I will not allow this **** to beat me down any longer.  If I have to take it to the ground, I will.  Tired of the mindf*ck that that **** (For me it was Methadone) did to me.  Actually, I did it to myself. (See NA?  I admitted my shortcomings :)  
  I also have to admit that I too felt the same as you did about... "Those People".  How could I, a corporate director be one of those "Addict Folk"?  Well... I too cried when I looked around in the Big Book class, and figured out that I was no better or worse than ANYONE in the room.  My preconseptions of others had desolved that instant. (Thank you God for that miracle.) So, I am an addict.  At least I know it now.  Now, I know what NOT to do to be a USER. See... in my funky mind, there is a difference between an addict and an addict in recovery.  I choose the latter.  
To see what an addict in recovery can do for you and me, look at all the help people are getting here.  When was the last time you got help or for that matter ANY attention to the problem other than a critical eye from a bystander that didn't have the foggiest idea what it was all about?  For me, that was never.
Maybe you are not an addict.  I hope not.  But for me, I am proud to be a part of such a wonderful bunch of people that leave their judgement of others at the door.
Only thing I should warn you about is some dude in here is talking French, German and Spanish about Rooster testicles or something.  Personally, I've never tried em.

God Bless YOU,
Mike

[GOD]

Part of your feelings, (the negative ones at least) are caused by the lack of natural chemicals in the brain. Opiates and opiate synthetics cause havoc to your natural body chemistry. The natural production of Dopamine, Serotonin, and others are interrupted.

THe following is from www.biopsychiatry.com:

The serotoninergic system is known to modulate mood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus is implicated in the control of numerous behavioural and physiological functions. Decreased serotoninergic neurotransmission has been proposed to play a key role in the aetiology of depression. The concentration of synaptic serotonin is controlled directly by its reuptake into the pre-synaptic terminal and, thus, drugs blocking serotonin transport have been successfully used for the treatment of depression. In addition to tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs; e.g. imipramine) which also block noradrenaline reuptake, highly specific serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) such as fluoxetine and paroxetine have been developed, which are increasingly prescribed for depressed patients. The mode of action of these antidepressant drugs on their direct target, the serotonin transport protein, and possible regulatory mechanisms with respect to long-term alleviation of depression, although having been investigated both neurobiologically and clinically over the last years, are not yet understood. The cloning of the cDNA encoding the serotonin transporter has allowed a more precise characterization of this protein at the molecular level. This will show how antidepressants act at this target, thereby affecting the biochemical, pharmacological and electrophysiological properties of the serotoninergic system and give an introduction of how they might exert their therapeutic effect. This review gives an overview of the recent developments in this field, discusses mechanisms of antidepressant action on this target, and also possible interactions with other components of serotoninergic neurotransmission.

I hope that helped.....

~~~~Jess~~~~

[GOD]

I care about you.

[groovygirl]

Love is a beautiful thing, and I feel bad for those who don't have it in their lives.  However, you have gone on and on here for awhile now with the love notes to Jesse and the "my" Jesse this and the "my" Jesse that. It's almost as though you are desperate to have us know that you two have something going on.  You open your "relationship" up to comments and negativety by flaunting it the way you do.  Can't it be special without having a moment-to-moment update here on the addiction forum?

I hadn't said anything up until now, but more and more members are getting annoyed by it.

Other than that, why do you feel that no one here "cares" about you?  Do you feel that because some people are sick of hearing about your personal life that it means no one likes you anymore?  It sounds like you have much more important things to worry about...no one has said you aren't "free to be you" - Don't make this into a martyr thing...

[Chezz2]

I have spent the last couple of days reading some of the posts for the last couple days. Couldn't catch up for the last weeks, not really sure how long. I did miss posting and wondered how everyone was doing. Although I must say that I don't recognize most of the names here anymore.

Taeme,
I know where you are coming from. That anxious, tight, crappy feeling we can get is a bumber.
Have you tried GABA. It has worked for me. I can go into all the chemical bs and stuff if you really want to know. The bottom line is that it works as a sort of natural valium. I take 2 a night and usually fall asleep. Which is a miracle since I have a very hard time falling asleep within an hour. It is a supplement, found at GNC. You can also take it during the day. I only take it at night, personally. Althought through withdrawals, I have taken it during the day with no noticeable effect. It is rather expensive though. I think I paid $15-20. Hope it helps!

Hellbent,
Good post. I feel the same way sometimes. Actually I can see it a mile away myself too. Kind or hard to pull the wool, when you have been the sheep before. We ALL have been in the same position. And KNOW what is going on behind the words. I am glad to see that your post was able to help Suz see the light per se. I did talk with her prior and agreed that sometimes people don't see themselves or what the way things they write come out. It is hard for anyone to really know how they are taken or what people think about what they have written unless somebody has told them. Kind of hard to do that here sometimes. Especially when somebody has felt alienated by that person. I hope everyone is able to understand.

I hope everyone is doing alright. I know how hard it can be. More than some of you know!
Chezz

[taeme]

I'm confused about whats going on, this must be some stuff from a while back before I got here.  I just can't see how anyone wouldn't be welcome, everyone either says stuff they shouldn't or takes things the wrong way. Give each other some slack.  We're almost at our worst.  So be kind to each other.
HEART TAEME

[taeme]

I'm confused about whats going on, this must be some stuff from a while back before I got here.  I just can't see how anyone wouldn't be welcome, everyone either says stuff they shouldn't or takes things the wrong way. Give each other some slack.  We're almost at our worst.  So be kind to each other.

CHEZZ
I haven't tried Gaba but I do take melatonin at night. Thanks for the input.  

HEART TAEME

[Chezz2]

Melatonin is in a totally different class and type. If it works though, that great. I have tried it, but didn't really get much from it.

Here is a site that I just found on it. It is REALLY informative. It is actually stuff from a conference on it and nueropharmacology.

http://www.np-interactivemeeting.com/


Just in case you want to read up on it. I read all I can get. I can't risk taking **** anymore without knowing what it is and what it does first.

Chezz

[taeme]

thanks a lot. I like to read up on stuff too.  TAEME

[chrisby]

I am on buprenex right now, but for withdrawl off of meth. Make sure if you are going to use this for pain that you talk to your doctor. The injectable gets into your system easier. So the amount you inject is not the same as the amount you take sl.
If your only taking .2 mg sl thats a very little amount. didn't now it came in that low of a dose (check that). What ever you do don't take it without advice from a doctor that knows about buprenex. Right now there isn't that many that know alot about it. It is addictive but no "high" involved like meth but a lot easier to get off of than meth. I think it would be a  good drug for people with cronic pain. The problem i'm confronting is serious back problems. Am I going to be able to deal with my back when i,m drug free.
Its going to be hard to tell for a long time because wd's amplify the pain.
            Be careful Chrisby
            I believe .3 mg IM=1mg sl
            ask a doctor!!

[mrmichael67]

It does come in that low of a dose.  Temgesic has a .2 mg strength.  The reason the injectable dose is lower is because the liver eats up quite a bit of it when it is taken orally.  When it is injected, it doesn't pass through the liver.  The same thing happens with morphine.  Ten mg of iv morphine is equal to 30mg of oral morphine.  Jesse, buprenorphine doesn't have the same effect from lower to higher doses.  It has a ceiling, which means after a certain amount, you aren't going to get any more out of it.  But, under the ceiling dose, doses can and will vary.  I know Koalabear goes into bad pain when she goes below her 8mg a day dose.  So, it can be titrated to effect.  If you need to take more, it can and most likely will help if you do.  You will get more effect out of it if you raise the dose, but only to a certain extent.....I read 32mg is the ceiling for sublingual.  It may be different, but I have seen that from a few different sources.

[MethMan]

I can relate to your concern about wondering whether or not your back pain will still be there once off your drug of choice.
In 1987, I fell 25 feet onto a cement floor in a basement of a building during an emergency call in the middle of the night breaking L4 and L5.  I dragged myself up one flight of stairs to ground level, then through a lawn to the security guard shack, where he called an ambulance.  Once home, I could no longer feel my legs for 4 months.  Then once I could feel my legs, it took another 4 months to start trying to learn to walk again. (Weird. I walked for 20 years and it takes 8 months to forget?) 2 years of therapy and I was walking.  Since 1987, I was prescribed massive amounts of Morphine for a year, then backed down to Hydro and Lortab 10's and took as wanted.  Then, I was sent to a methadone clinic for "chronic" pain.
I reached a point in my life where I wanted to be drug free whether or not the pain was there.  But in the back of my mind, I was concerned as you are.  Unless you've been through a back problem, you're sure to not understand.
Today... it is Day 10 for me. (Yeah Me!) My back hurts.  BUT, 800mg of Ibuprofin (sp) is doing the trick along with a little flexeril.  I know the back deal is there.  Don't get me wrong. But for YEARS, I was telling myself that I was hooked because of the back problem, when in reality it was something called a "Spiritual Mality".  Taking the **** for years, I perceived a victor over Shame, Guilt, Fear and Anger.  All it was, was a perception of what reality is.  My four fine friends, shame, guilt, Fear and Anger were true blue buds.  THey just hung out waiting for me.  How nice.  Well....  I have kicked Methadone and it's four friends to the curb and tore the rear view mirror off the car so I wouldn't look back.
The point to my insessant blathering is this:  You may feel the back problem.  But if it were something that would keep you from living a happy, joyeous and free life, you wouldn't be walking.  Choose to live above it.  The farther I get from my drug of choice, the higher I get and the view from here is KICKIN!
God Bless you!
Mike

[MethMan]

Oh... and another thing.
When your wife starts rearranging the damn rooms every other day, you get to say, "Honey, I'd LOVE nothing more than to help you, but... you know.... my back and all."

Man... there are SO many benefits...

[percsnomas]

Sounds like you're ready for a long stay in cleanville!!!!
Congrats on DAY 10!!!
We're pulling for you!!!!

[bmac]

Hey this sounds familiar doesn't it.Methadone,bad w/d's.
How is the rehab going for the MnL?
You did a wonderful thing going and getting her.But I guess you already know that.
When you have time email me.
***@****
                           Bill

[percsnomas]

Done

[bmac]

Done,done!

[Chezz2]

FINISHED!!! ;)

The bassmasters still around?

How's it going Bill? Doing good I hope.
Haven't been on the other side of the tracks to see what is going on there in awhile. You still posting there?

Chezz

[LissaB]

Hi
Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I never got near my computer all day. After the second week off methadone every day was way better the first two weeks are hell!
I am going on 60days now and I feel good and look great but emotionally I am still on a rollercoaster.  I went to some AA meetings but some of the people there were rude to people who identified themselves as an addict. I was hesitant to try NA but I am so glad that I did.  I needed some kind of support as I did this with none.  It really helps as soon as you feel well enough to sit in a meeting try one.
This site was so helpful especially when I felt to bad to leave the house!  
I am slowly getting over the brain fog, and the feeling that I will never feel "normal" again.

[MethMan]

That is really reassuring to know that you've been there, done that.  Thank you for giving me hope.
I too have been witness to AA being a bit..well, distracted by an addict sitting quietly in the back of the room.  When someone did finally approach me, I told them that I was an opiate addict.  His response was, "Glad you're doing better.  Did you know this is an alcoholic anonymous meeting?"  My response was, "No.  I am so wasted, I just wondered in.  Sorry." and I never went back.  In the face of adversity, I try to use dry humor instead of confrontation.  Idiotic as it seems, it helps me not reduce myself to certain levels.
Personally, I see no difference between the groups and wish there would be more willingess to help other human beings in their desire to work the steps. But, I can not, nor should I try to influence what people think.  I wish them all the best.
When I came here the first time, my perception was that it wasn't that big a deal, but I read through ALL the posts.  In my fog, I responded to some that were MONTHS old.  Forgive me for I knew not what I did.  After being here for a week now, I feel an intense bond with my fellow brothers and sisters in this fight for our lives.  The only other time that I have felt accepted by others for who I am was during rehab in the community. We all were there for the same reason, just different DOC options.
The people in this place have helped me (including you Lissa) beyond measure.  Each day, people read my pathetic posts and still respond with enormous support.  May God Bless ALL you people beyond your wildest dreams.  You have and continue to help me without knowing who I really am.  If that is not true kinship, what is.
Thank you again. I can not say it enough to prove how much everyone's support and kindness has brightened a rough road.

All the best,
Mike

[trout]

Thank you for pointing out the insanity which occurs with some AA members/alcoholics.  What is up with that?  Is being a falling down, slurring, hungover, shaky-handed, drunk somehow more glamorous than an opioid narcotic addict?  I say no!  I never missed a day of work, never skipped out on family functions, never passed out or blacked out high on pills.  I am a full blown addict addicted to opioids (opiates) rather than alcohol.  Alcoholics are merely addicts to a different substance.  

I am enrolled in a outpatient treatment program.  I am the only person there that's not a drunk.  When I tell my story, and it is bad (300 mg hydrocodone/day), these people look at me like I am from Mars.  I don't understand the attitude.  I am sober 32 days and want to find a sponsor in AA and go through the steps.  Why should the fact that I never drank alcoholically affect this type of relationship?

Trout

[MethMan]

After being a part of an AA meeting that does distinguish the difference between an alcoholic and an addict, my opinion is that there are only SOME of the people there that feel that way.  They just happen to be the ones that talk too much. :)  Additionally, I also think that those who do make the distinction between alcohol and addicts are STILL not being honest with themselves in some way.  "Big Book" was written to help with the disease and back in 1934, maybe there weren't too many people on the Laudnum. ;)  None the less, I can't get mad at em because whether they realize it or not, their DOC is no different than mine.  Both will kill the hell out of us if left alone.  To be honest, I was laughing when I left the meeting after being asked if I knew it was an AA meeting.  I am sure they were saying something like, "Man, that dude was out there."  There's some truth in that.  Yes, I was and am.  But, out of the two of us, I felt I had a better grasp on the disease than did the guy with 8 months clean.  May God wake his hick ass up some day.  (Forgive me.  I'm feelin' tweaked today.)
God Bless...
Mike

[hellbent]

If you don't mind my asking, where are you guys? I go to aa meetings in northern california, and just about all of us out here are cross-addicted to something, be it benzos or opiates. I drank for most of my life, but the last 5 years were almost exclusively opioids. I went to a few NA meetngs, but I found the people in AA (at least the "winners"), have a stronger program and seem to be living better lives than the people in NA (that's my experience, be it a broad generalization).

My question to those who would make the distinction is, what is alcohol but another ******* drug? The process of the steps works as well for "drugs" as for "alcohol". There is a pamphlet written by Bill W., where he explains that addicts are welcome, as long as they have a desire to quit drinking.

I'm really working hard these days to be a tolerant, live-and-let-live kind of guy. But if anyone were to confront me with the "you are a drug addict and you are in an aa meeting", they better be ready for a very "enthusiastic" response.

[MethMan]

Maybe where I am is relavent.  I live in what is considered (NO BS) the "Cowboy Capital of the World", which is Bandera, Texas. Home to a total population of around 5-600 and 13 frickin' bars.  Bar fights EVERY night, horses on mainstreet, et. al.  When on Methadone, I tried to wear the wranglers (Those may be the cause of all my problems :) ) wear my hair cut and fit in.  But now that I am off methadone (Day 12), I am no longer wearing the wranglers, letting my beard and hair grow back out and back to the loose fit 501's.  Yeah Baby!  Check the hippy out Cowboy!  This load of blather could have been cut back to one sentence, but it felt good writing it. Now, I don't care WHAT these people think about me and I am not willing to try and fit in with anyone.  For the first time in 20 years, I am going back to who I am.  And if they don't like it, then just like you, I will be enthusiastic on my response if provoked.
Personally, I embrace diversity. Some (especially here in Bandera) don't.  Since I have decided to take the step to become a recovering addict, I also plan to pick up, sell my ranch and move the hell outta here.  Rather than dealing with a constant barage of "Yee Haws" while the Daniel bottles fly at midnight, I'll move to a larger city.
While it's true one can not move away from trouble, it is also equally true that to stay in a weird environment invites "enthusiastic debate".  So what am I waiting for? Day 30. Then, I hope that my body and mind are clear enough to hear what God wants me to do.  Till then, I'll let the monkey take his last few swings before I drop kick him for good.

All the best!
Mike

[groovygirl]

I loved your description of the town in which you live.  Your posts in general are so honest and funny.  You are right that you cannot move away from your problems, but you can move to a more diverse place with more options.  Good luck to you...

[hellbent]

"When on Methadone, I tried to wear the wranglers"

Hee Haw, that's some funny ****. First time I've really laughed in a few days.

Maybe god wants you to bring the message of love and tolerance to Bandera. And then again, maybe he wants you the **** out of there as soon as you get well enough to make an informed decision about what's next.

Always room for a texas hippy cowboy addict here in San Fran.

[MethMan]

Thank you Mariposa for your kind words.  Sometimes I need to step away from the constant drudgery of this WD thing and spew idiotic diatribe.  I'm grateful no one's cursed me yet, but I guess I'm due.

Hellbent, I was thinking of San Diego.  The climate (if you go by weatherunderground.com) seems to be moderate unlike the 500 degree days in the summer here and when it does lightly dust the roads with ice pellets, it's like going to Bash-o-rama's destruction derby around here.  NO ONE knows how to drive on ice here including me.  How's San Diego?

Let me tell you about the Wrangler thing.  Here in Texas, if your waste is a 36, then you buy a 30 and CRAM into em.  Problem is, when you're on Methadone, you forget you're walking around all day racking yourself.  When you get home and figure it out, well... it's just too damn late.  I'm done wearing $hit that gives me wedgies.  If I weren't afraid of getting my a$$ kicked every 5 minutes, I'd walk around in a moo-moo or a dashiki all the time.
Later folks.
Mike

[hellbent]

San Diego is nice. There is a great bay there, some nice beaches, great looking girls. Mexico is a few miles away. Close to LA. Doesn't have alot of character, but it's a good place. Have you considered Santa Barbara? If you are looking for temperate climate, you can't do much better.

[MethMan]

I would have posted quicker, but I'm PACKING!  Geez... the girls... I mean San Diego does sound good.  I thought Santa Barbara was for the rich and famous. Is that right?  Or do they allow "our types" in there.

By trade, I've been in software development for over 20 years.  If I could make a living in Northern California with the Redwoods... man, that would be stylin'.  I've lived in Texas all my life and I am ready for a change.  

Let me ask you... Here in Texas, we perceive California as a lot more layed back.  Is that right?  Or is this perception as accurate as all our wagon trains lined up at the feed lot here in Texas.  California is hot in High Tech, so it is one of two choices for me.  I was figuring on either California or the Denver area.  But then, I've never seen snow more than a 1/4 inch deep in my life.

Hey bmac... Look man!  I'm making (a few) coherent sentences now!
Day 12 Partner. I"m RIDING THE MONKEY!

Later buds..
Mike

[hellbent]

I went to college in Santa Barbara years ago. It's a college town, so there is affordable housing. There are also alot of amateur-college type alcoholics everywhere (like I was when I was there). There are also college girls. Life's always a tradeoff...

I do software dev too, have since getting out of college 10 years ago. I was lucky to get a job in software a few months ago (I had a long detox and did not work for 5 mos. and was on unemployment). The tech. sector has dried up hard here in the bay area, I don't know about the rest of the state.

The San Fran area is about as laid back as you get anywhere - it's almost like amsterdam. Cops are mellow, cheap, plentiful narcotics, prostitution in plain view...I could go on. Lotta tolerance out here, which is good and bad. LA is laid back, but people are uptight and many are insane. San Diego strikes a good balance. Have you considered Seattle? I think that there are more jobs up there, and plenty of trees!

[hellbent]

San Diego is pretty damn conservative now that I think about it. I think they have some religious right faction entrenched down there. Stii a nice place tho'

[MethMan]

I need to look closer at San Fran.  You sure you don't work for the Chamber of Commerce? :)
Seattle would be cool too.  But I thought Bill and the gang were cutting back due to Microsoft ME's lack lustre performance.  But, they aren't the only game in town I guess.

I do need to have a closer look at San Fran.  Thanks for filling me in.  And if that doesn't fit, then like you said, I can go to Seattle change careers and get into a Ska band. :)

Before I get in trouble, I better say something on addiction.  Everyone, do like Nancy SAYS, not does. "Don't Do Drugs".  Man, If I'd heard that before I used, I would have never picked it up. I'm sure it works for everyone that hears it. :)

Night All!  Hope EVERYONE gets a great night's sleep and wakes up better for the efforts.

God Bless,
Mike

[MrsRat]

Just wanted to say to you that I'm following your posts since you are about a week ahead of me getting off the methadone CT.  I find some comfort seeing that by next week maybe I won't be feeling as bad as I am today.. day 5.  Wish I could trade days with you LOL.
I'm so happy to see you are doing so much better now.

I would really like to talk to you more about all this.  Due to my being well known in some circles on the internet and the fact I never hide who I am and always post with the same nick wherever I am at .. I won't talk openly about all things.  If you would be kind enough and have the time to do a few emails, bman does have my addy and he can give it to you.  I can't post it in here.

MrsRat

[MrsRat]

I was in L. A., California for 1 1/2 years before I met my husband online and moved to Phoenix to be with him.  I HATED it there and I could NOT find ANY doctors who would help me with my 'gut pain' that would render me passed out on the floor next to the darn toilet on a regular basis.  They all tried to tell me it was in my head. Also, it's real hard to find a good neighborhood at times in that area.  I ended up in a 'nice looking' area, but ended up I was about the only one who spoke english and was a legal resident of this country.  I was scared to go out of my front door and didn't actually unless someone was with me. (I'm normally about 90 pounds and am 5 foot tall on the dot.)  I have NO desire to ever go to california again.

When I got here to Phoenix, while I didn't get the best medical care from the 'state system', I did get one Resident doc who did believe I really hurt, and instead of 'poo pooing' me, he ran a CT scan, which found my Crohn's Disease.  LOL.  I even have a picture of the foot of my small bowel they cut out of me very shortly after that.  By that time I was down to 72 pounds and had to be physically carried everywhere. (yes, I do have it up on a website should anyone wanna see me 'naked' from the inside out LOL.)  Sorry if you want gory though, it's a clean pic of what they took out, the surgeon must have cleaned it up before he took the picture for me, so my hubby could post it online to my Crohnie friends that same evening. heh.  We all hang out in IRC and talk about '****' a lot. (Yeah, I do have a very warped sense of humor and this WD isn't making it better I don't think.  If I lose it is when I'd start to worry.)

This is day 4.  My post on another thread earlier said I could not get the script filled my doc gave me till Tuesday.  Since that time I have found another pharmacy close to us that takes out insurance and that has it in stock.  2 of them in fact.  My hubby will go get the script in the morning and take it to one of them and get it filled for me. For those who have been following me in here and want to know my latest status.

MrsRat

[MrsRat]

I hit the post button and my little helper (almost 4 year old female pearly cockatiel) ran right over my keyboard and hit the enter key, then jumped down on my mouse.  One of the other things she did made my post go thru twice.  *sigh*  Sorry.  I do hope that they can get rid of that double post, no reason to take up valuable bandwidth with unneeded posts like that of mine.

MrsRat

[MrsRat]

I was in L. A., California for 1 1/2 years before I met my husband online and moved to Phoenix to be with him.  I HATED it there and I could NOT find ANY doctors who would help me with my 'gut pain' that would render me passed out on the floor next to the darn toilet on a regular basis.  They all tried to tell me it was in my head. Also, it's real hard to find a good neighborhood at times in that area.  I ended up in a 'nice looking' area, but ended up I was about the only one who spoke english and was a legal resident of this country.  I was scared to go out of my front door and didn't actually unless someone was with me. (I'm normally about 90 pounds and am 5 foot tall on the dot.)  I have NO desire to ever go to california again.

When I got here to Phoenix, while I didn't get the best medical care from the 'state system', I did get one Resident doc who did believe I really hurt, and instead of 'poo pooing' me, he ran a CT scan, which found my Crohn's Disease.  LOL.  I even have a picture of the foot of my small bowel they cut out of me very shortly after that.  By that time I was down to 72 pounds and had to be physically carried everywhere. (yes, I do have it up on a website should anyone wanna see me 'naked' from the inside out LOL.)  Sorry if you want gory though, it's a clean pic of what they took out, the surgeon must have cleaned it up before he took the picture for me, so my hubby could post it online to my Crohnie friends that same evening. heh.  We all hang out in IRC and talk about '****' a lot. (Yeah, I do have a very warped sense of humor and this WD isn't making it better I don't think.  If I lose it is when I'd start to worry.)

This is day 4.  My post on another thread earlier said I could not get the script filled my doc gave me till Tuesday.  Since that time I have found another pharmacy close to us that takes out insurance and that has it in stock.  2 of them in fact.  My hubby will go get the script in the morning and take it to one of them and get it filled for me. For those who have been following me in here and want to know my latest status.

MrsRat

[bmac]

Hey,I got your message and I will do just that.I hope you are better today.I will get back with you soon.
                        bmac

[LissaB]

I am in South Florida, West Palm Beach, certainly a drug mecca of the world but there are a ton of old timers in the AA rooms  that are sick and intolerant and there are others who are awesome and have great recovery. Being new in recovery  (at the time I tried AA I was 2 weeks off methadone and feeling raw as hell)I could not deal with the ones who thought junkies should keep there mouths shut. I would get so mad it was counter-productive.
I was lucky to find an NA group with good recovery and people I could relate to. I have a great sponser and I feel like I will make it this time!

[LissaB]

Thanks, I did not see your post until today. You really helped me A lot I am so glad that I have made it to freedom! I never have to do it again! I am trying hard to make changes in my life so that I never lead myself back there. I go to NA meetings and for the first time I am not thinking "God, when will this meeting end!" I am actually getting something out of it and I feel better after. Thank you so Much! Lisa

[LissaB]

Methman
It is great to have people to relate to especially going through something like this. Methadone detox is hell and knowing that that hell does pass is hard to believe when in the midst of it.
I think that you are at the end of the worst of it.
Life will be good soon!
You do need some support and if you can't get it where you live you should consider someplace where you can.
God Bless,
Lisa

Trout
I know what you mean about those intolerant type in AA.
I got into an argument with some guy that jumped all over a guy two days off herion. This guy said he didn't care about drug addicts and didn't want to hear it.
Gotta go

[MethMan]

Thanks for all your help along the first two weeks of this twisted mind-bender.   Day 13 for me is a little rougher than Day 12.  I guess it does that for a little while, but it sure isn't ANYTHING like the first week.  Man... going through that ONE TIME for me is good for life.
Currently, the doc told me that my fatigue was because of a couple factors.  He said that first, the WD are still there plus he said that clonidine can do it after a while to you too.  So, he's tapering me slowly off the clonidine over a week period from .4mg per day to 0 in a week.  
One thing that did not expect was the home life going to $hit.  That's the last thing I needed during this time.  None the less, it is here and I will deal with it (for a little while).  If it doesn't get any better, then I am gone.
Anyone here had that one hit you?  You come home after 5 weeks of inpatient detox, in the deep withdrawals and can't jump up and down to go have fun and your wife (or husband) can't figure out why you don't want to "Go the movies" or some other event that you really can't make?  I calmly tried to discuss it with her by saying, "No  honey, Hubby can't go to the frickin' movies right now.  Know why? Cause my brain is not home and my leg cramps will cause bodily injury to the OTHER DUMB ASS in front of my theatre seat."
Let's see.. what would top this off..  Oh... how bout a couple of Black Ops helos circling the property, IRS rambling through my **** and Joe Buck Hunter missing his shot and putting a round through the house.  Yeah.. I think all that would get me "motivated to do something". Or, I could opt to go to the movies and when I **** my pants, just look around and say, "Sorry folks, I'm in the middle of detoxing and it's all natural.  Honey, did you bring the imodium (immodium) D? Hubby needs it now." :)
No matter.  I am on a mission here.  I'm fixing myself FIRST, then I'll decide what's next.
Thanks for the space to rant...
All the best,
Mike

[Sundown]

Been there, done that. I viewed it as almost payback for all the misery I caused her. No, we never worked it out. Too many buttons were pushed, too much trust broken. The fault never lies with just one party, but in truth, I did do most of the damage. If it's meant to be, you will work it through. If not, life will go on. Just don't run out the door today. You're still not thinking clearly (sorry, nothing personal) and some actions once made, can't be taken back.

Glad you've made it this far. You sound better each day. Yes, some days are worse than others, but the trend really in only up from here (hell, can't get worse, right?).

Sundown

[Chezz2]

Lisa,

I am glad I was able to help you through such a tough time.

Although I am even MORE happier than not only did you get back your life, you are continuing to seek the assistance to stay that way!!!!

Good Job. I am so happy to hear that you are doing so much better and are following through to stay that way.
Chezz

[MethMan]

Thank you for making me feel that I am of some help to someone.  It feels good to kind of give back in some small way.
I can tell you that yesterday, which was Day 13, I was in good enough shape to have guests over for dinner and actually participate in conversation without looking (or sounding) like I did on Day 5.  If there were a way, I would try to take the WD from you to ease your suffering.  But, even with as short a time as I have behind me, I am already looking back and knowing that it was something I needed to experience for the betterment of myself.  Remember this: "Tomorrow IS GOING to be better."  You will get to a point where it begins to ease up on your body and mind.  For me, I began to feel a little better around Day 10.  So, by the time you read this, you will be on Day 6 and only 4 days to go.  You've done the hard part now and will begin to reclaim your life.  I've said it before and I'll say it again; The farther I get from my DOC, the higher I get. And the view from here is spectacular.  You'll see it too, shortly.  You will also begin to realize what YOU can achieve.  Suddenly, boundaries you thought were obstacles are no more than a slight bump in the road.
You're doing great!  Think of what you've accomplished so far.  Think of how terrible Methadone was to you and how you've overcome it.  What a miracle, is it not?  Rejoice in the loss of it's ties to your life each second that goes by.

I'm praying for you.

All the best,
Mike

[MethMan]

Thanks for the feedback Sundown..  You're right. It's not just her fault, nor is it just mine.  I hope everything will work out, but I'm not willing to take a bashing so we can call it even.  She's still using and I am not.  Remember when they tell you that you can't make someone help themselves?  It's true.  At some point, I'll take inventory of this situation and see if the "Pro's" column is longer than the "Con's" column.  But like you said, I am going to wait to do that so I can be of clear mind and will try to be as non-judgemental as I can.

Then I'll help the ***** pack.  (Just Kidding).

Love to all my brothers and sisters in recovery!

Mike

[Sundown]

The fact that you're at home staying clean while your wife is still using must be a terrible pressure. You're right, you can't change others, only yourself. You can change, however, what you expect from others. Don't let her use tempt you after the TRMENDOUS EFFORT you've put into this. Don't let her act as a trigger.
As to your relationship with her, you may not be able to reach any positive resolution if she keeps using and you're committed to staying clean. I'm sorry, there's no easy answer I can offer. The only suggestion I can give is follow your heart.

Keep hanging in Mike.

Sundown

[MethMan]

Thanks for the insight.  While her use continues, it has not been a trigger for me at all. As a matter of fact, it has been a living deterent for me.
It's odd.  When you get clean, you begin to see the shields that an active addict puts in front of their souls.  It's a terrible thing to see.  Now that I am starting to be aware enough to see it, I can only imagine the hardship I've caused for my daughter during my use.   I never even conceived of hurting her and was always spending time with her.  Now that I really see it, I was only there physically and not emotionally for her.  I will be doing more than making amends to her.  Even after all these years, she's always loved me unconditionally.  My turn to reciprocate in mind and soul.
While I was a highly functional addict, I "thought" that I covered well.  But now that I'm getting better every day, people see it and tell me of my "mood swings" in the past.  Amazing.  I was so gone, I guess,  I never realized it. It's purely astonishing how much we are affected.  And the worst part is that the evil of addiction prefers to live in the shadows of our souls and feed on itself.  If addiction were the "monkey" we all talk about, simply falling backwards onto concrete would fix the issue.  Unfortunately, it is not that easy.  My love for others and myself had to fall in order to wake me up to the resident enemy of addiction.

As far as the possibility of me slipping from her use..  I'll see you in a week and tell you how good Day 21 is.

God Bless...
Mike

[bmac]

I will be glad for you when you hit that day 21.You will really  
feel alot better.During my using I just as you was there only in body.My daughter wanted to play outside alot and of course being messed up all the time I just made excuses and found things for her to do inside.Now that I am alot better I find myself asking her if she wants to go out and play ball and stuff.It is amazing how drugs can make you turn your head from the ones you love.My marriage suffered and my relationship with my two older sons from another marriage really suffered badly.But once you're back they see the change.I know God has a way of saying 'I told you so'.Take care and I'll be waiting on day 21 with ya!
                     Bill

[MethMan]

There's a real strength in knowing that "it's been done before" by others.  I guess out of hopelessness comes a light from the path of others that have walked the walk.  I've been riding your lights to where I am now.  Thank you for the generous gift.

Yesterday, I went back to rehab as an ALUMNI.  People that are currently in "LaHa" were there (because it is mandatory) along with 234 fellow Alumni including myself.  I got up to speak in front of this crowd to hopefully give them the light that was freely given to them.  As a practicing addict, I would have never given away anything that felt good.  Why would I.  It's Mine.  But, after the meeting was over, three people wanted to know of this message board once they get out.  And a funny thing happened.  In giving away the light,  mine got more intense.

God Bless the power here.
Mike

[athena]

Hi mike
I was on clonidine once for withdrawls and I felt horrible,slept all the time.I kept thinking it was withdrawl and it was the clonidine making me feel so tired and bad.Just a thought.

pixi

[XHydro]

Hi guys.I am finally kicking Hydros out of my life for good.I have went through WD's several times so I know what to expect.Day 3 right now.I took Hydro solid for 3 years and never needed it for medical reasons ever.It all started with a co-worker bringing some to work and giving me one.And of course the warm buzz feeling left me hungry for more.So I initially started buying from local dealers then finally found the easiness of online pharmacies.At first that didn't require any records at all to get the meds.They just took your word for it.That kept me with meds for a year or two.Then stricter laws were starting to be passed and some kind of proof was required but there is always around road blocks.You can actaully find xrays and records on the Net if you look hard enough.So that kept me with meds up until the present time.I have actually went through WD's quite a bit lately like the guy said way up at the top.I had one script left with two refills.But I took at least 5 a day and the scirpt only had 90,plus you could only get a refill once 30 days had past so do the math.So I have been going through 2 weeks of feeling good followed by two weeks of WD's then the cycle started all over again.Just couldn;t ever totally stop knowing that I still had some pills availible and all I had to do was pay for them and have them shipped.

Anyway...thought I would give a little background as to why I am here.This sorta takes the place of AA for me.I'm totally out of pills now and I'm ready to see the quiting process to the end.Going through WD's all the time, I found this place a month ago and used some good advice which really helped out and I want to thank all of you for taking the time.As I said beofre I'm on day three and I'm nearing the hump that I usually go through.By day 5 or 6 I should start sleeping again.Thats what I hate the most about WD's.Looks like some of you still get some sleep but I'm getting 0.But our bodies do handle it differently.I use the recipe which does help out tremendously because I have went the cold turkey route before and took nothing for it.I can tell a difference between using the recipe and not.I do rest easy knowing that many many people have went down the same road already or maybe even going through it at the same time as me.Time wil make things better for me and all you can really do is buckle up and take it one day at a time.I'm pretty sure I'll be feeling much better by the end of the week then its all downhill from that point.I can't wait for the day when I look back and wonder why I did something so stupid in the first place.Once again I'll be high on life and not narcotics.Its hard to remember how it was before I went down this road but I can wait to become "normal" and dependant on nothing once again.Except cigerettes but thats another hurdle that I think would be wise to leave alone at this point:)

Nite all and thanks

[MethMan]

Thanks for the info Pixi.  I think clonidine has me more fatigued than detox at this point.  Was as 4 a day now down to 3.  Tomorrow I go to two.
I screwed up and tried to just stop taking it about a week ago.  My skin started stinging, face turned red and I felt really funky.  Those little .1mg white things pack a punch man!  And it isn't a good punch either.
How fast did you ween off the clonidine?  My doc has me doing it over a week and a half.

Props,
Mike

[athena]

If you only have aweek and a half left on it,I would reccomend hanging in there.Clonidine is a powerful b/p med.As it lowers your pressure,it zaps your energy.Im sure you'll feel better when your off of it.Hang in there.Things will get better.

pixi