How do you become grateful?

[lifeisbetter]

Feel free to break this thread, especially if you have a withdrawel question or if your in pain. I don't know how I have been able to post twice this week.

Anyway,I've been told that a grateful addict will never relapse. If thats the truth I am in trouble. It seems to me the only time I remember to be grateful is when I read posts on this site. If I think about it I am happy to be free of the constant torture of seeking the pills,but thats only when I think about it. If I am totally honest I have to admit I miss the chase and capture of a new batch of pills. Sick I know. I think when I go about my daily life I have this underlying feeling of the "poor me's". I have a great time at my job and find myself laughing out loud often, but as soon as I get home I fall into the old routine of being basically "useless" like when I was taking the pills. I do the bare minimum for my household to function. I've been clean for 5 monthes and I haven't been able to break this pattern. Any suggestions?

[shane]

Hello. I know exactly what you are saying. I too have never been able to regain my composure, so to speak, since iv'e stopped using(six weeks). I feel as if i'am just drifting and Pretending to live. I have no enthusiasm or intrest in life as I used to know. I feel very usless, and this is very dangerous because I know it increases my desire to use again. I'am also very depressed.Seems like there is no hope. It's almost like I can
divide my life into two parts;Before and after addiction. They say it can take along time to come around again but we will feel better as time go's on. Some estimates are  as long as six monthes or even a year or more!!! We just need to stay clean and get through one day at a time. Guess I just wanted to let you know your not alone in this mess. I hope This help you just a little. I sincerly hope you start to see some light soon.

[tex3]

Hi life. As you said, you are grateful when here, which makes me wonder if that's why so many of us go to meetings (although I have yet to make one). Maybe after hearing enough and participating enough it we can incorporate that into our lives. I have drawn so much hope from you, and am grateful myself for that.
Also, you could be having a down period. Although I haven't been clean as long as you, I do have ups and downs, crazy ones. Remember your post about wanting to give your kids a "happy mom" and how it led to that downward spiral? And how much better you feel now? I can't say how you are feeling today, only encourage you to stick with this, even through the unknown. After all, we do KNOW what a relapse costs, and it is not happiness or relief from the routine. I've had these headaches so bad I've had to occassionally take a hydro. It doesn't make me feel better or happier. It makes my physically sick, so I only resort when the headaches are too much. It certainly doesn't give me the boost I would have expected.
I think we might attritube all our problems to recovery/addiction, when maybe other things are at work. Maybe you're working so damn hard you're exhausted. Or depressed. Or it will all get better next week. I wish I could make things better for you (and me, for that matter) but can't so I will just offer my sincerest hopes and wishes that you will get through this.

[groovygirl]

i'm sorry to hear you are feeling so down. it is AMAZING to me how much these drugs ruin our body's chemistry.  i've also heard it can take months and months to get back to "normal" - i remember how it was before, since it was only two years ago.  i like to tell myself that i felt SO much better then and everything was fabulous....but it wasn't.  life always has its ups and downs no matter if you are taking pills or not. i tend to have depression, so i have a lot of "downs" - even taking the buprenex does not cure everything, altho it does keep me out of the darkest of the dark moods.  i absolutely dread the day i will be completely without it, and i struggle every day with the knowledge that this isn't forever.

i admire your ability to stay clean this long. i have yet to accomplish what you have....i wish i had some words of wisdom...i wondered if you were taking an antidepressant...maybe you could talk with your dr. about that?

[Seamstress]

I've also heard that God will never give more than you can handle.  Oh, really?  Is that why people commit suicide?  Don't buy into the dogma.  Everyone is an individual and what works for one person may not work for the next.  Sure, it's nice to be grateful.  It will make you happier. But just because you can't manage it 24/7 doesn't mean you're going to relapse.  Anymore than being grateful offers some magical shield against using again. JMHO.

[zoe1]

I have a little different perspective than most of you... I have experienced exactly what you're talking about in a person who I care very deeply for.  When I met him he didn't use drugs.  He was a joy to be around and seemed to truly enjoy life.  We had a wonderful time.  Somewhere along the line, drugs entered the picture.  Then, the battle to stop using.  I've watched him go from a happy person to a miserable person who has lost his purpose in life.  It seems to be worse now that he's actively fighting the addiction.  From my perspective, each relapse sucks more life from him.  I want to be supportive, but it has come to the point where there isn't anything I can do.  He's pulling away from me as he is from much of the "good" in his life.  

I'm sure that each of you have people in your lives who love you and wish only the best for you.  Please remember them when you're feeling "down" and, if they're willing, go ahead and lean on them a little.  I know that in my case it would help me as much (or more) as it would help him.

[OxyDout]

Is there really a way out of this deep dark whole that we are in.........????????????? I feel like I'm never gonna get out of here, so I had been doing great with staying sober, then I got a prescription for ridalin, snorted those, great feeling, but didn't help my withdrawals, then I tried cocaine a couple of times, finishing up with a valium at night, that sucked, never do that again, now I have done about 20mg of oxy for the last 3 days, yesterday, I did nothing, today I'm doing nothing but wholy **** do I feel like complete fuckn death, sorry about the language but its needed to express my appearance and health.......... I can't do this anymore, I have hit my head on my desk about 20 times today (nods) and I'm literally crawling out of my skin............... However, in the midst of withdrawals last night, I watched a great movie, "the others" with Nicole Kidman, freaky movie.........  Well, anyone with words of wisdom, oh, I ordered Nurofen off the web, that should be here in about 4 or 5 days, it only has 12.8mg of codeine per pill, basically,  you don't feel anything, but I'm hoping it will help in some way since i have nothing else to detox with.........I hope all is well

miserably yours,

GWH

[hippy]

there is a saying in NA  YOUR 5 MINUITS FROM THE MIRCLE.
so  don't give up. continue/ continue/continue.
taking drugs 4 real pain and misery is something some people have to do.
But addicts just abusing drugs is just sucide, we are killing ourselves, because we hate ourselves and our lives.
And we we play god in our lives, we use everyone and every thing
that crosses our path to get more drugs to escape our hated existance.
there is hope,but we have to get involved with other addicts staying clean. we have to surround ourselves with the same.

gratitude is the purist wisdom.
if we are not accepting our life as it is on a daily basis
we are dening our beleif in a higher power

as we stay clean life  gets better , but it takes time.
and we can not do it alone.
i was always told that as i stayed clean i would live a life beyond my wildest dreams. that has happened,
that does not mean it has been all peaches and cream.
but staying clean i stayed out of jail. i got my kids back and was a single father. i stayed clean for 14 years,


im rambling                  peace to all

[lifeisbetter]

Awww thanks you guys, my nameless faceless soulmate friends. I did forget to mention that I have PMS this week. Shane your right it does slowly get better. I keep forgetting the progress I've made. You guys all made really good points. I guess the old self esteem took a dive today. as a matter of fact I hate to say this but I haven't been to a meeting in awhile. Uh Oh!

[freedfrmhell]

hi all.....just wanted to tell gwh how sorry i am he/she is having such a hard time.....he/she was doing soooo well for sooo long.....not being a person personally involved in drugs myself....i guess im just kind of curious.....when these relapses happen....is it usually because of an incident or is it just that you can't take it (the addiction) any more??...the worst thing i have ever quit was smoking cigarettes, and ive only been 5 months the 10th of june on that....i haven't had any relapses because i know if i take that one cigarette....it's all over and i will be a smoker again and i don't want that.....i can't possibly ever fathom or pretend that i know or understand what you all go thru on a daily basis....but i read your posts everyday with nothing more then utmost respect for ALL of you....i wish there was a way as a straight person i could take all of your pains and cravings away for you.....im sooo genuinely sorry i can't.....thanks for just letting me be part of your lives...if there is anything a straight person can do or be a shoulder for....just holler....and angst....i work in a cancer center in kansas and we do radiation/chemo on adults, children and the elderly, i understand completely about watching death.....it literally sucks....take care all and know your in my prayers....ps:  im sorry gwh...i don't know if you are male or female....

[hippy]

hey gw did i see you posting 2 weeks ago, saying you were going
out for just 2 drinks after work, and everythingh was cool.
it could have beenb someone else?

in any event get back on the road less traveled with us
addicts, we live in a world of all or nothing.
totol abstinence is the safest road if at all possible.
keep posting and as kip says get  a angel and give him a name.
my angels name is david because i have a giant that needs slaying.
peace    michael j h 3rd

[GOD]

Sorry to "Hijack" for a moment, But let's reflect upon be Grateful......

This goes out to my friend Nick, Who never found the "Promised Land" that we all look for. He killed himself on Cristmas 2000
*******************************
listening for the knock
upon my door,
and waiting...
for Promised Land.

Standing neck deep in life,
my ring of brass
lay rusting on the floor.
Is this all?,
because it's not what I expected.

Somewhere along the way
friends I once held close
fled the fast lane.
I didn't notice,
I just had to make it.
Head down, nose in the grindstone;
the kiss of life
placed on my brow
somehow slid to the ground
and lies buried six feet under.

Preaching from the floor again
the same old sad song,
"Bartender... bring another drink for their favorite son."

Where did it all go wrong?
What's the use in even holding on?
Here's to love, hate... and promises.

Almost called it today.
Turned to face "The Void"
numb with the suffering
and the question,
"Why am I...?"
So many times I've
tried and failed to
gather my courage, reach again for that nail.
Life's been like
dragging feet through sand,
and never finding... Promised Land.

****************************************************

But..... Do you know what? I did find it.
Here's to hoping that we ALL make it.

[tex3]

What happend to bring you back down? Seems like you've been struggling for so long, and are truly only happy when you're not using. Have you had a good stretch of being clean? I only ask because I care about you and am worried. I really want you, and all of us, to succeed. Why do we see ourselves being so damn destructive and know it yet continue? Please take care and hang in there; you want it so bad and will get it soon, I really feel.
tlk/tex

[IrishRose]

Life- gratitude is a greatly overused term in recovery, I used to walk out of meetings that had that topic. But I've found lots of stuff to be grateful for, at first I thougt it was b.s, and a real pollyanna way of thinking but it grew on me. I would just try to be grateful for my first cup of coffee of the day, for hearing a bird sing in my yard, for my dog's smile. Gratitude became a form of mindfulness for me that got me out of my head. I really don't know how it worked but it did, when I quit feeding my misery by giving it so much attention, even when it screamed at me,without attention it started to die. Of course, even now that I'm clean, theres always a new one to replace it, and I still have to make the effort to remind myself of all the good, simple things in my life. It sounds so simpleminded and I guess it is but somehow it works. PMS will getcha everytime too, I know what you mean about that. I always feel like I should have something like " do not make decisions, do not operate heavy machinery, etc."tattooed on my forehead during that time. I never bought the stuff about God not giving you more than you can handle, I don't think he/she/whatever sits around and thinks, hmmmmm, irishrose and lifeisbetter, howsa about a little addiction, pain and suffering, I know you can take it girls. Who knows why us, why not us? But really it will get better, sorry I am rambling on so much. Take care, keep posting, let us know how it is going.

[Mace]

I have only posted a few times but I read this page every day. GWH I enjoy each of your posts, I have begun to look forward to you words. You have a unique view of the world. I have no doubt that you have been there and have lived everything that you write about. Your posts are  extremely helpful to a lot of us. I don’t think anything  I could say to you would help you to see even a flicker of light in this deep dark hole, but if the roles were reversed I think you would have some words that would help me see that flicker! Guess what I am saying is that there is hope and light and you have pointed that fact out to others with your words. Please don’t lose hope! This too shall pass....

[groovygirl]

hi - i'm sorry to hear you are having problems again.  this is the cycle for so many people including myself.  but, i think that at this point you should consider seeing an addiction dr.  just from past experience, it seems that you cannot do this alone - most people can't.  i can't.  i'm not sure why you are so reluctant to do that, but if you truly want to be free, you might have to seek help.  you didn't feel you could tell your gf about it all, and i thought that would have been a step in the right direction.  schlub told me a long time ago, that in order to be truly free, you have to let go of all your secrets.  it was one of the most important pieces of advice anyone has ever given me, and i struggle with it.  it's so much easier to dabble and pretend that we can handle this.  it's so much less real when no one knows our dirty little secrets.  once it's out in the open, there are expectations.  people know, and you have nothing to hide behind.  that is a very powerful preventative.

good luck to you, and think about it.  it may take awhile to find the right dr., but when you do, it just might save your life.

[lifeisbetter]

IrishRose: Wow will you be my sponsor? ( kidding, but I wish)You explained the way to gratitude beautifully and it makes perfect sense to me now. I do feed into the "bad feelings" alot.Tahnks for the input.

everyone: I have to tell you something ironic that happened last night. I can only read this board when I am at work, so sometimes if I'm in rush, I print the thread and take it home. Now here is the ironic/funny part. I took the posts out on my balcony last night. I watch the kids feed ducks, and catch minnows in the lake from there. Anyway the kids came bounding up stairs looking for something to do so I decided to make paper boats for them to launch into the lake. In the midst of folding the papers I saw some of the words you all had posted to me. It was a magical moment in the middle of a routine "mom task". I realized at that precise moment that I'm not such a bad mom after all! "I am making paper boats out of my addict friends! I'm pretty darn creative!" Of course, being the addict I am I ended up making a whole fleet of boats for them. Always over doing it! The point is, I guess I am just getting used to "feeling" again. I am learning how to be just "acceptable" rather than being the best at it all.

[OxyDout]

You all are incredible people, addicts, or not addicts, you have big hearts and are always there to make sure this steele net of friendship is never to be broken.  Whenever someone is about to break free, 1 of us sucks him/her back in to make sure they stay protected.  You have been all that I need while going through this. I haven't used today (my 3rd day) and I'm feeling pretty shitty.  I think the main reason is because I would take a few pills here and there, I was never 100% clean for over 7 days, I always had to take something and I don't think it was the actual per,vic or whatever, it was my mentality.  For example, you can be clean for 10days and have oxy's in your cabinet that you refuse to use, and you would be ok. right? well, I can guarantee you that if you had nothing at all to fall back on, you wouldn't make it to even the 5th day of detox.  See, all of us will feel fine as long as we know there is a something within our reach, it keeps our mind and body out of the gutter, but god for bid we don't have something, then my friends, thats withdrawal.

Groovy I greatly appreciate your words of wisdom, and I would love to see an addiction doctor, but I don't have the money to do that, or do I? how much is something like that, IN MA!

I just want to say to all of you that no matter how bad things get, don't ever give up, time will heal, the panic will pass, the money can be made and the drugs will disappear. The one thing that remains is that you have to look at yourself at the end of everyday, sometimes you might not want to, but you won't be able to help it, so do your best, give it 100% and feel good about it because WE are getting there.

You have all been an inspiration to me and i will always remember what I have learned.  If you take a step back and look at things,  In the long run, 6 days of physical withdrawal? We can do that in our sleep IF WE "WANTED TO" -- YOU HAVE TO WANT TO GET SOBER

[GOD]

Thanks a milllion for you post. It brought tears to my eyes... I was having a semi-bad morning here at work, and feeling kind of "Worthless"--  But to know that I was part of making some kid's summer afternoon [by being made into part of a paper boat armada] kind of makes me think that "all is right" with the world!

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!

Jess

[shortrock]

so my best friend in the whole wide world threw up blood the other day - its not the first time, either - at least this time he realized he needs to get off the pills and alcohol - but i dont know if he can do it w/out somekind of drug to help w/the withdrawal - that in itself might kill him - but i guess if he keeps on going he will die sooner than later - i know im so dramatic - but i love him to death and cant bear to think of life without him and im sure he cant bear to think of himself not having a life anymore - i mean he holds a job, has a girlfriend and doesn't seem to have a problem - but he does and it is just tearing him apart - i never knew him off the drugs and i dont think there was much time in his life when he wasn't using - but i dont think that the way he is now is the way he is in his soul - he's so beautiful and i just wish he could see that
and know how great he is and can be - oh god i dont know what to do to help him through the suffering - i just feel so helpless - im the only person who knows everything (or almost everything) and i just want him to have the life he can

with much worry
shortrock

[tex3]

Lifeisbetter, I'm glad you're feeling better today. I hope it sticks around. I've had some shitty days and some great days. Today looks to be great. Did some massive cleaning yesterday with the kids; made it into a game with them, so we really had fun. I have to think of something to occupy them this summer!
We found a house we really want to move into, in San Antonio. I have to get out of this town. I got the application and we qualify except in one aspect. During the past few years I screwed our credit up massively. Our mortgage and everything else is okay, but we don't meet the stated credit score. I guess I'll call and try to work around that, but I don't hold much hope.
I've been really bummed about that, because we need this house. I need to move from here to move forward. I want it so bad but don't think it will happen, and I'll be stuck in this damn little place forever. My husband has so many requirements for the house we'll take, and I can't really blame him as he'll be driving 140 miles a day back and forth to work, so we might as well like it. I found the perfect place and now it's slipping away. If we can't get this one, who's to say we'll get any house at all?

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on that, I'm just bummed. I'm really glad you put your current mindframe in perspective and feel better.

GWH, I'm worried about you. You've got to jump on this cycle and gt truly free. What someone mentioned about being honest really hit the mark. That's what is most different about my life: I am no longer deceitful. I mean that in a larger way; I'm not deceitful with myself, with my family, with anything. And not just about the drugs, but about little things. It just got so easy to lie, or to always try to fake life, act straight, put on an act, whatever. Now I don't have to do that. It's like the BS is gone, and I am so much happier. I want you to have that.
I've gone on too long, as usual. Hope all have a great day. Kip, I'm looking for that angel.

[groovygirl]

i take it you don't have insurance?  we can always afford to get the pills, but other things just don't have the same importance...that's addiction i guess.

[OxyDout]

thats not what I meant at all, I am assuming the dr. would cost btw $1-3 thousand, plus meds, right? I don't have that kind of money just sitting around, you know?

[lifeisbetter]

Hey there. I didn't have insurance either. I went to a meeting to try and get a grip on myself because I had relapsed for 6 weeks. I shared about it and said I needed to detox, had no insurance and absolutely could not go back to rehab. I have to tell you its amazing the resources we addicts have. After the meeting I met someone who worked for a detox Dr. It cost $250.00 for the first visit(assessment)and than $100.00 more the next one. He gave me all the detox meds on the second visit. I didn't have to see him again. Of course he recommended it and I am glad I did follow up as I still see him once a month (for $80.00). He even gives me samples of my antidepressant.He's also the only Dr. I have been completely honest with. (okay okay I did'nt tell him I tried to inhale a Ritalin up my nose but I tell him alot!) Anyway ask around at a meeting where you live. You may be surprised who God puts in your path when you show your willing. Take care, and please never stop trying, as Kip said "Don't quit 5 minutes before the miracle happens.

[groovygirl]

they don't all cost that much, and many are covered by insurance.  it just sounds like you have to do something to stop this cycle...

[lifeisbetter]

Tex again we have something in common. Since I can't be a nurse right now (to much temptation) I have been working for a mortgage company. Isn't that interesting. I gotta go but maybe I can give you some ideas next week. Don't lose hope there are lots of options. I know believe me I blew our credit too.

Everyone: Thanks for the support this week. Have a great weekend. Keep up the fight and maybe give God a chance to help.

[Mini Micky]

Hi everyone!  I've been clean for about a month but i still
have this great craving.  and most of all i have no energy
left.   Last night i tried this " Mini-thin" from the counter.
it gave me little energy.  i was wondering if anyone tried that.
thank you.

[chelmer]

My name is ken, in 1997 i started taking vicodin for pain from herniated disc in my neck. i could have had surgery to treat the pain but i was doing pretty well financially in my job and i would have lost 2/3 months recuperating and i am self employed and couldn't stand the loss of income, i thought. It didn't take but just a few days to fall in love with the vicodin. After 3/4 mos. my Dr. quit prescribing the vicodin, but i was "real" smart i used the last script he gave and copied it changing mos/yrs idid this for two years i even wrote prescriptions for nonnarcotics, antibiotics and stuff when i needed them. Youall know what happened, i got caught right after my wife and i had just bought the house of our dreams, the night i was arrested all of her friends were giving her a surprise party at our new house. while i was being arrested at a walmart pharmacy by two of the most gungho cops in dallas, they accused me of being a dealer and thats what i was prosecuted for. and thats what iwent to jail for. i'm out now and i'm clean but unbelieveably i still have cravings some days that are so hard to get through. iam a convicted felon now, there is nobody who ever knew my wife and children who doesn,t know about this. the year iwas arrested i made 400k income, last year 2001 imade 7k. my wife and children have forgiven me, but my relationship with my wife who i love so much will never be the same. We lost every material possession we had including the house and i had to call my wife at the party with all of her friends there celebrating her knew home to ask her to find me an attorney to get me out on bail, we've been married 37 years now, but welost 3 years of that to the state of texas prison system the worst thing that i had ever done before i was arrested was have a couple of speeding tickets. i am beginning to get over my depression some and i pray and pray and pray to my Savior & Redeemer to let me live long enough i'm 56 to just do something positive with my life. thank you for letting me tell you this and may GOD'S tender mercy surround you and give you the strength to make it through the day may HE lift your pain and fear and hold you in his arms when things are the darkest i  know how painful things can get, iwent through detox in jail cell by myself i thought i was going to die but i didn't so i personally know we can beat this, but its so goddam hard. God knows that i hated him for along time, until i realized i had to quit blaming HIM cause that didn't work. i also found i had to quit blaming myself because that didn't work either and thats when i started living life in 30 minute increments, looking for something good during that 30 min. period. the time periods kept getting longer as i got alitlle bit stronger, i'm upto living my life one day at a time, iwon't ever try longer than just one day, i've learned thats my limit. Again that you so very much for letting me get this out of my system, i love every one of you and you are in my heart 24/7  Sincerely Ken Allen

[angst]

Life,  humility and gratitude come pretty easily for me.  i grew up so poor, with the terror of a big man i called Daddy.  i went into foster care twice with my mama's drinking.  i got back home until i left for good at 16 years old.  i went through a rape when i was 19 years old.  there were other bad things attached to that.  when i was 14 years old, the doctors started me on benzodiazapines.  i still take them.  i had a heart attack when they tried to detox me with phenobarb.  i am on methadone maintenance for the 2nd time in 4 years.
But i'm not chasing the dope man.  i'm not doing flat backs for $25 to get a pill to shoot.  i live with my ex-husband who treats me with respect.  i also live with the most beautiful child, who i bore, and see her growing everyday.  i have my pets and my garden.  i am not hungry, homeless or without clothes.  most of all i have my psyche.  i did not lose my mind.  it is altered a little, but it is intact.  i've gotten over some of the need to be idle.  i am humble, because i could have died.  i tried to die, and i lived.  i prayed to die, and i still lived.
gratitude is for the simple things.  i do not have a lot of "things".  the pain is still there of my mama dying and grandma dying the next year.  i feel like i was cheated by having them both die.  but i have the gratitude of witnessing a miracle when my mama died.  i've had good and bad.  After years of drug abuse, i am humble i made it out alive.  i am grateful for the small things.  i never had a lot, and i may not ever have much.  i have what i need.

Hippy,  great prose.  it is ever so true and melancholy.  i think we all have emotions that are so vastly conflicting at times.  it is then, we can lose faith or accept this condition as human and grow.        Ava

[hippy]

so don't blame your self or any one else,
i was taught by my sponser  a definition for maturity-
WHEN WE STOP BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE> i alway liked that definition.

as far as our selves , we have to be real carfull about
judging ourselves, we most times take the measureing stick
that we use to judge ourselves and wind up beating our selves
with it . so it's best that we get a mentor or a sponser and let them tell us where we are at , and how we are doing, instead of trying to do it ourselves. since our view of ourselves is distorted by guilt and shame,
we as sddicts need the help of others , we need other to be our eye's and ears, untill we grow up enough to be able to do it
ourselves, in a mature and healthy  way . whitch takes time.
and as adicts we are so impatient, we want everything to be
fixed yesterday.
As far as blaming god, most of us have been playing god in our live's for so long, we don't hate god we hate ourselves, we truly are our own god. anther distortion for us addicts.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[angst]

do you remember the moment it changed for you?  i do.  i remember having a syringe and a vial of demerol.  i thought i was too afraid of needles to do that.  30 minutes later, i had shot the dope into my left pit.  i got a good rush.  i made that choice.  no more pills for me unless i could dissolve them or cook them.  i cannot answer why?
Why? that is a question i have always had about life.  why was i born, etc...  is that awfully childish?  i went through an existential crisis when i was pregnant with my beautiful daughter.  i had a hard time accepting the fact i was bringing a child into this world of pain.  
my perception of the world has changed.  i do not look at it as a world of pain anymore.  there are a lot of good things out there, you just have to find them and allow yourself to enjoy them.  other times, i think this is hell.  the afterlife is heaven.  i am maintaining.  i hope i am growing.  i agree that addicts need to see themselves through someone else's eyes.  we are far too hard on ourselves.  Ava

[tex3]

Ken, welcome and thank you for sharing your story. You've been through some incredibly rough times (I know how hard the Texas penal code is, though I've been on the other side of it). It's great to see you come out and go forward with your life. I hope that some of the younger people can learn from your tale and stop before what happened to you, happens to them, because it will. I am never judgemental or self-righteous; I just don't want to see anyone else go through what so many of us have. Thank you again for your tale, and I hope you stick around here. I'm a bit south of you, north of Austin.

Angst, Hippy, everyone, once again your stories bring tears to my eyes. I will save these messages to read when I need them most.

About the house, for those who read my self-pity note earlier, it looks like we might have actually got it! I was very honest about our credite problems. Now we are waiting for a check to come in so we can make the deposit by Monday or Tuesday, or we will lose it. If it comes to that, I will hock anything I can to get the money, as we have it coming in any day now. I can't wait to move!

Have a great night everyone. I'm going to watch a movie with my daughter, even though Harry Potter doesn't appeal much to me! She likes it so we will watch and enjoy.
tracy

[jen52]

Hi, Its me again and I'm trying to be grateful but I am getting desperate!  I have been off the pills for 3 weeks now.  Every morning I wake up with such unbearable dread.  How long does this go on for, weeks, months, somebody please tell me.  I have had my antidepressant increased for almost a month now, I don't let it stop me from doing what I need to do (as hard as that can be) I excercise, do morning meditations, go to na meetings, talk to my sponsor, read this forum ,take kava kava. Does anyone have any suggestions?
thanks, Jen

[tex3]

Hi Jen. I really think you will start to feel better very soon. The dread and depression still hit me at times, but I'm not consumed with it. I noticed the change gradually, and after a month it seemed better. I can't pinpoint a day, but I feel pretty good now. The depression is gone, my energy level is almost normal (actually better than when I was using) and I don't feel hopeless. That was the worst thing for me; feeling so hopeless, like live held nothing for me, even though I knew it did. At times I thought I was only sticking around so my kids would have a mother. Not to the point that I ever actually thought about harming myself, but I was apathetic or worse, truly sad.
I hope you feel better. You're through much of the worst, and are very strong for making it! Please keep it up and have faith that you will get through this. We abused ourselves for so long, it makes sense that it will be a long haul to recovery.

[hippy]

i hope you are doing and feelig well. always good to see your
post. I know you saw a lot of death and pain in life and when you were a nurse working with cancer patients, that must have been  a difficult job for you. I'm sure seeing your daughter
brings a lot of joy to your heart. well i hope the weekend is treating you good.
As far as that age old question WHY????.
one of the first things my sponser had me wrie on was WHY DID I USE. of course when i was a kid , you could say it was peer pressure, me being the only white kid in the ghetto where i  
grew up as a young teenager. the black kids my own age, in my hood did not like me because i was different i was white, and the white kids where i went to school did not like me because i lived in the black part of town on the other side of the rail road tracks.
As life went on and i got my girlfreind pregnent at the age of 17
i had to quit highschool in my senior year, and get married and was given a union card. At that point in my life i just used drugs everyday and worked, and stole cars, and dealt drugs.
No wonder i hated myself down deep, i was voilating most of my own boundries, being raised a christian and all.
My basic attitude was screw the world.
the next thing , i bought a house for my new wife and child, but before we even moved into it , our realationship was over.
just anther reason, to get high.
so i rented the house out and moved to an apt. in center city phila.It was 1981 and i met my next wife to be and she had our son before we were married. drugs wre still number 1, i rember she found about 20 qualudes and was going to flush them , but i stopped her by offering her 500.00 for them, of course she said fine,they were only worth 100.00 , tyhats how crazy i was.

back to the question WHY,---why did i use drugs, --because i hated myself and i hated the life i was living........



peace   michael

[chelmer]

Dear Jen, I'm beginning to control my cravings, but like you said waking up and the next 2 or 3 hours are the very worst for me. I'm 56 with 2 great children and 4 grandchildren with so much to be thankful for even though at one point in my life i was eyeball to eyeball with Satan just as long as he could lead me to my next handful of vicodin or norco10's. Fortunately i was caught by the law and my lawyer told me that he could plead me down to first offender misdemeanor, but i was so traumatised by how low a human being that i had become and i was forced by the court to have physical & pyscho exams that i realized i wouldn't live another 5 years. My own personal DR told me that i already had "mickey mantle liver" did you see "The Mick" in the last days of his life confess to the world what he had done to himself with alcohol & drugs i just cried out loud for Mick but mostly i cried for myself for days i couldn't quit crying. So when my court date finally came i plead guilty as charged because i knew if i got off on a misdemeanor i would be right back on my way to Hell. I drove myself to court because i was released on bail, and i had a med. bottle of vic7.5/500 hidden under the front seat of my car, can you believe that anybody on trial for controlled substances by fraud looking at a possible 10yrs. would drive themselves to court with more of the states evidence in their car. i wasn't just eyeball to Satan i was dealing with him. the pain and humiliation that ihave had to learn to face up to and live with every day of my life on some days were just about more than i could live with. But i know this if i had not plead guilty which shocked every person in the court room including my own family and friends my attorney the prosecutor and the judge, i would havebeen released on probation, and i would have used that stash in my car before i left the courthouse parking lot. My personall Dr. prescribes for me know 40mg. celexa 1 daily, and neurontin 300mg 1 capsule 3 times daily and also when i experience a migraine which i have pretty often  as a result of the titanium plate in my neck i use imitrex 20mg. taken nasally and that will usually stop the migraine if it does not subside within 1 Hr. i inhale a second imitrex for me the inhalers work better and faster than oral imitrex. i don't use an addiction Dr. i probably should but my family Dr. knows where i 've been and he has been very good to listen to me & what works. i'm signing off now and hadding to 6:30pm service at Fellowshipchurch.com in Grapevine TX. pull up their website & check them out I was baptised there @53 yrs. old and it has been my lifeline, we have AA/NA and i pray &pray&pray for myself and for you Jen and for evry Jen & Ken out there, God willnot forsake us, even though for a long time i hated him for abandoning me, but i had abandoned myself, and i learned that God had never left me he was always there. I love you and will pray for youmany times and you will make if you never give up no matter how many times that you might relapse, God loves a SINNER more than any other in HIS flock,ken

[hippy]

thanks for the words of inspriation,
i have been well schooled in religion.' but i must say it has been my experence that as addicts we need to get better from our
addiction to drugs, by getting help from addoction professionals, and other addicts, we have to be carefull with religion, since most of us are under the illussion taht we beleive. when really all we really beleive in is ourselves and we mistake that for a twisted beleif in some religion.
i was once told that where ever there is a out pouring of the spirt ,there is a double effort put forth by the diabolic.

i was always taught to put my religion on a shelf untill i got some clean time, working with other addicts.
i have met very few newcomers, just getting clean  who did not think they knew all about god and religion.

In the 12 step program in step 2 it says -COME TO BELEIVE-
infering that we do not beleive.

It has been my experence that we  as useing addicts, and addicts just getting clean , don't beleive.......
we have spent  our lives beleiving in our selves , and that just add's up to idolatry.

I hope i have not ofended anyone, but in all my years beingt an addict, i have always left my religion at the door, when i enter a meetting or in this case this fourm.

this does not mean i am a godless heathen, the trith would be the opposite.
I think the old saying applies- YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUITS, we don't have to give advice from a religious soap
box , it will just turn addicts off.
peace

[angst]

when i read your prose, i did not think that was you.  i mistakenly gave credit elsewhere.  i did not know you had that inside of you.  it is bitter sweet.  for alot of us addicts who
have been on the street, it makes my heart jump a beat.  i lost
friends out there.  it is just what appears to be an unfair loss.
one of my friends od'd right before he was due to go back to prison on parole violations.  they found him in the bathtub, the rig still in his arm.  he was not going back.  hell was here on
earth for him, and he was going to try the other side.
Thanks for the prose.  it reminds many of us (esp. me) to stay
humble and grateful.   Ava

[JR.]

Hey man,

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you yet but I am JR. I too was on the other side of the Texas Penal Code for 18 years. As a matter of fact, I was in Law Enforcement for 18 years until my 12 year vicodin addiction caught up to me on May 31st of 2001. I too live a little north of Austin. I just celebrated my 1 year anniversary at AA tonight and I am now 370 days clean.

I would truly like to hear your story. I feel like we probably have a lot in common. Drop me a post.

[OxyDout]

Hey groovy, its a good thought.  I might even try it out, but I will have to save $$ because my insurance doesn't cover  it, and yes it is expensive. Do you know any good dr.'s in the area????

[tex3]

Hi JR! Good to hear from someone close by, although we are actually moving south in a few weeks; a big reason (no surprise) to get away from everything here.
I worked for 10 years (full-time) while going to college and raising three kids. I had incredible energy and drive. But I'd also always enjoyed painkillers; whatever form, whenever I came across them. It never became a real "problem" until I'd had a couple of surgeries for chronic pelvic pain, which nothing relieved. I was referred to a pain specialist and left my first appt in glee; an endless supply of pills! By that time I'd left a two-year PR job at a law enforcement agency, and was starting another closer to home. I stayed there for about two years. I was quickly declining, though, and it was obvious. After my first year on the pills I went into detox; I kind of accepted I had a problem, but not totally. My bosses knew everything and accepted it; they even commended me for seeking help. Of course, I was civilian, but drove an unmarked and spoke for the agency.
I was still in pain but mainly loved the pills. I stayed of vics for many months but was on buprenex, and did okay.
In December I was switched from bup back to norco. I quickly got worse than ever. I don't even know if I was in much pain at first, although I did have a major problem a few months later. I was prescribed 15 pills a day and usually took 20, so was always short and having problems. Missed a lot of work. My mind was shot and I forgot whole days. I was a wreck and I knew it. My job suffered; my marriage suffered fell apart; my reputation was going to ****. Just at that point I had another major pelvic problem that required surgery. I was determined that after the surgery I would quit the pills, even if I still had pain. Living with pain would be better than living as an addict. You know the story: living each minute worrying about where the next pill will come from. I used for many years but only regularly for two; that was enough. I missed a lot of my kids' lives.
I had surgery in March and went through a terrible recovery; my tolerance was so high I took 30 pills a day for relief. God knows what my liver looks like. I had other problems I won't go into here.
One week after surgery I went to my addiction doctor and got off the pills. He put me through an at-home detox similar to what I'd done inpatient. Right before the surgery I'd quit my job in a huff; I'm sure the pills had a lot to do with that.
I've been clean since April 1 and it feels great. I don't have a job, but I do have my family back, and my life. My energy is back and the cravings are, for now, under control. I don't delude myself that they won't ever hit again; I really struggled a few weeks ago. But I am in control of my life and it feels great.
Now, please tell me your story! If you want to write privately, I will give you my email address. I'd love to talk to you. Yes, I was civilian but my job was working strictly with cops so I almost felt like one, plus I was constantly under a public glare....I know what you must have gone through.
Please write and talk to me. What are you doing now?
t

[dunit]

Well guys it's been more than a month  since I've posted, So much going on with work and my fmaily. My father in law is in the hospital and just been diagnosed with a termanal illness.

I read your posts everyday and they keep me going.I just want to hug each new person who tells us of the hurt and pain they are having, its so familiar. I want to reach out to those of you who love an addict like addictsmom(you started posting with me in March--- bet we're about the same age!) and jen1 and short and give you guys a bear hug and tell you how great you are-they say is is harder from the other side--I wouldnt know , but we need you if you can take it--and I think you are wonderful for supporting the one you live, it must be so hard.-I love my husband so much for staying with me and supporting me---I truly feel I would not make it without him.
I wish I had the answers. I have been an addict for over 20 years.... God it has been a long very tireing road...I just want to get to the end.
I have been on bupernex since March 9th, down to an amp every 12 hours,but like groovy its so scary to say thats it! Never again...wow..what if someone told you that you could never taste chocolate again--ever?? sometimes I feel like I will never be totaly clean and sober---but I sure am trying! will I make it??? some days I just don't know. But I have a 13 year old daughter that needs me and does not need to see me wasted EVER again.
Have been using Thomas's recipe for 2 1/2 months , not sure if it is really making a difference.(any comment would be appreciated)----- like some of you said, when I stop I just have to be in for some rough months.MORE rough months...........
I just want to wake up and be happy and sing with the birds and go to bed with a good feeling.
I've tryed anti depressents but they never helped me, guess I'm not depressed??? sure feels like it.
I wanted to say hi to ken and welcome.  Please stay with us, read , post if you can.

[angst]

my name is ava, i am glad to meet you.  you have a burden of the terminal illness close by, and that hurts.  i kept my mother at home for her 5mo 7days alive after the initial diagnosis.  she made me promise no hospital.  i was a nurse then and could take care of her. momma had a sitter who was a true angel.  she was the one who took mother on her last outing.  as it got closer to death, the coma, and death, it became very hard.  i lived through
it.  i have not resolved her death and i still grieve for her.
i am on methadone maintenance for the second time.  the first time, i was on almost 2 years.  i went to NA, and it helped tremendously.  i was clean 6 months after detoxing from methadone
i had 2 relapses, and 2 rehabs.  the nursing board had their critera, and i had needs.  i told the doctor she was not treating me, but the licensure board's critera.  the put me on a slow phenobarb taper for my benzo use which was not the problem.
i'd been on benzo's for 22 years, since i was 14 years old.  the
phenobard made sure i had no seizure, but i did have a heart attack.  after my 3rd relapse, i ran back to the methadone clinic
where i obtain my methadone, conselling, and group therapy, all for $11/day.  that is change to what i spent on the street.  i am
maintaining.  but i do not feel in limbo. i feel like i am learning for needs that will arise in the future.  i do not have
a time limit for the methadone.  i will know when it is time to
detox, as i did before when i detoxed.  Good luck to you.  the time for you to detox completely will come.  NA might really help
you make the adjustment easier.  it did for me.

[JR.]

Give me an e-mail to drop you a line. I can't give mine out and I will tell you when we talk as to why.

[tex3]

Understand completely. Write to ***@****. Will be online for a bit longer.

[tex3]

Typo-I'm sorry! The address is ***@****

[Fitzgibbons]

How do I become grateful? I'm defidentally the wrong person to answer that question, so I'm not going to. But I can say this, you've at least grabbed the attention of the people replying to you, which I personally think is worth more than nothing, which means you've touched and become a part of even, with your question alone, the number of people that at least read (all I'm sure of whom responded), yourself included, of course. :)

You mentioned you heard a grateful addict will never relapse? Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as a grateful addict, you don't sound grateful, are you? I can't imagine you, and or anyone else would be. (I think I'm an addict, and I'm not grateful... (note: I say I think I am..)

That time after, before, between work, or where-ever it fits in that you feel that way around the house, what exactly is there to do? You have kids? Gotta clean up after them? a husband/wife? Maybe you don't have enough to do to feel usefull? or maybe there is so much to be done you know you just can't do it, or not do it right, and you feel like **** because you know your never going to do what YOU think everyone around you expects you to do? I dunno...

I can only say I wish you didn't feel the way you do, wether I read you right or not (most likely not, I'm sorry for that...) But with alittle detail, if you feel up to it, I'd be more than happy to at least try to give most likely not help in making it better, but peace of mind to help make yourself feel right. If that makes any sense.

Take care... and good luck.
Frank

[Fitzgibbons]

After reading that last message, the one I just wrote... I apologize if it jumps a bit, everything didn't exactly come out the way I meant it to. Sorry.

But none the less and for the record, if you feel like your not useful and or not doing what you need to do while your at home, do alittle more maybe? Do what YOU need to do to make YOU feel good. Its not uncommon to feel like sh*t between sessions.

By sessions I mean, between times your mind is so pre-occupied (yea, I know, I can't spell... I don't think?) w/things it forgets about secondary thoughts like cravings, ie: eating, drugs, etc..

I just scrolled up and realized all I've been doing is giving my opinion on some things, not even actually answering them, and thats what you asked isn't it? For help, usually in the form of an answer. I guess I have plenty of my own problems and I was rambling, which I was, sorry for that.

[Fitzgibbons]

After reading that last message, the one I just wrote... I apologize if it jumps a bit, everything didn't exactly come out the way I meant it to. Sorry.

But none the less and for the record, if you feel like your not useful and or not doing what you need to do while your at home, do alittle more maybe? Do what YOU need to do to make YOU feel good. Its not uncommon to feel like sh*t between sessions.

By sessions I mean, between times your mind is so pre-occupied (yea, I know, I can't spell... I don't think?) w/things it forgets about secondary thoughts like cravings, ie: eating, drugs, etc..

I just scrolled up and realized all I've been doing is giving my opinion on some things, not even actually answering them, and thats what you asked isn't it? For help, usually in the form of an answer. I guess I have plenty of my own problems and I was rambling, which I was, sorry for that.