How long before a person starts to feel normal again and have energy?

[Renee1060]

I guess I wrote in the wrong place...responding to someone else with a question.  Goes with the territory..man is my head screwed up!  As I said before...I've been taking benzos and all tyypes of opiates for over 17 years now.  All of this started with a neck injury.  My doctor told me to take 320 mg/day..and I'm sick and tires of all this garbage.  I don't feel good when I take the meds...so why take them?  Then I stop taking them and it seems like the withdrawl symptoms will NEVER GO AWAY!!!  Does anyone know if it is true that opiates can/will cause depression over time?  I'm so weak I can barely get out of bed to go to the bathroom..which obviously everyone knows happens very frequently.  How long does it take for your body to return to normal?  I am going to a new pain clinic this Monday..and it really scares me because I just moved to a new area and I asked the pharmacist about this pain doc and she said it's gauranteed that when I return I'll have 4 TIMES THE MEDS I NOW HAVE!  THAT IS INSANITY!  I don't know what to tell the doc...or if I will even have the strength to make it to the appointment.  Thank you for attention.

[Where's Chad]

Chad what's up? after posting 10 times a day you disappeared.Hope you didn't use those scripts did you? Chad,check in buddy.

[ken to ronnieg and angie]

hi, its a long process, at least it has been for me several times.But now I am on day four and its finally starting to get better.Its still hard to keep from using, but its better than the alternative.Some people take longer than others depending on how much you were taking.Myself, I went from oxycontin to lortab,then I weened down on the lortab over a 5 day period.But I had help,I gave my pills to someone who helped me from taking them all at once.Good luck Ken

[Angie to Ken]

Something you said jumped right out at me. You stated that you do not feel good when you take he meds. Are you saying that they don't take the pain away or that you don't get the euphoric feeling from them? If I could wish for 1 thing it would be not to have ever discovered that great feeling that opiates provide. If you don't experience that feeling you may not have such a hard time staying off AFTER THE WITHDRAWL. That is the reason you are feeling weak and it will go away in about a week or so. If you do not tell the dr. at the pain clinic about your problem with opiates you will never end the vicious cycle. Ask yourself if opiates have affected your quality of life in a negative way? If the answer is yes then you have nothing to lose by trying to live differently. Just tell yourself if it doesn't work out you can always go back to the old ways. By the time Monday rolls around you should be through the hard part of your withdrawl. Good luck and keep us posted.  To everyone else--WHERE'S CHAD?????

[Al to Michael]

I was chewing 320mg a day of oxycontin and was really getting strng out. I made the decision to not chew them anymore. I have for the past three days been swallowing whole 1 40 mg as soon as the alarm goes off, and get up about 30 minuts later. I feel fine until about noon, then take another 40. I was taking them {chewing} before for the euphoric feeling, but also have foot and back pain. By swallowing them whole I don't get the euphoria, but still get some energy and no pain. I miss the euphoria, but I am feeling 90% better mentally. I am alot more alert and can actually enjoy people. There is some withdrawl {sweating while sleeping} but so far hasn't been too bad. I am scheduled to go to treatment tuesday, and still may go, but I made the arrangements togo while I was still chewing them, and now these past three days am feeling much better, so I'm not sure what I will do now. I guess I'll keep up what I'm doing until tuesday and decide then. I know the person I talked with to schedule going is going to say I'm just rationalizing and need to go, but the choice is up to me. If I can continue to function the way I have these past few days, then I really don't want to stop. I might suggest you try this, yet don't want to encourage you to keep using if you need to quit. Just sharing my experience. I  wish good results for you.

[tom to loreen]

I answered you on the other thread, but it occured to me that if you're getting the runs from the oxy withdrawal, you could be dehydrated, which will make you feel listless. It might be contributng to it. Buy some Imodium (immodium) (over the counter) for the runs. It works. Why suffer?

[to chad]

Chad I know when I stop posting is when I'M using.Back on the roller coaster huh pal? Don't feel bad. WE are human dude.Better luck next time.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Ok, you got me! Filled the scripts. Big mistake! I did two oxy 20's for three days and felt like ****! What a mistake! I will try not to ever use that **** again!

Here is what happend,
I was doing great (18 days clean) then on the 31st of last month someone came up to me and said that you can fill your perscriptions a day in advance. So, stupid me rushed down to the pharmacy at 9am. Whant to know something? I actually threw up before I walked in to fill the scripts. What the hell was that? Anyway I stoped at the gas station cause the car was on E and proceded to pump the gas. The hell with this I said. I didn't even wait till all the gas was in before I sped off home. Woke the girlfriend up and BAMM, we did em. I don't know what happened but I was so sick I felt like I wanted to throw up all day. I certainly didn't enjoy the feeling at all. I did them the second day and felt the same way. I think that we finally enjoyed them for like three hours on sunday watching football. Other then that, they sickend us! Yet we continued to use them. Go figure? I don't know why someone would use something that made them so sick. I even threw up my burger king (it sucked anyway).

So, here I am again...
The good news is that we didn't have to go through detox again. I guess someone was willing to give us another chance. I can't understand why I broke down and used, I have no excuse other then I am weak. I can however say that I will try not to ever do this again. If anything I am glad that we had such a misreable time cause I believe that will help keep us away. I got rid of the rest of the pills so the temtation should be less.

I don't feel like a loser, I just feel like I let myself down. I now know the disructive force that this **** can do to you. I even got into a pretty serious fight while on the pills over something very stupid. I would like to blame the medication as this was our first real fight in about three years. If I believe that the oxy's made us fight then that will be all the more of a reason to never use. I am so sick of using anything I just want to scream! I certainly enjoy being straight now that I see sort of what its like. I look forward to hearing from you guys, but please NO "I told ya so's" I already know I screwed up! I would however LOVE to hear your opinion as to what happend and what you think my chances of recovery are? I hope you all are doing well..Chad

[to chad]

haven't you noticed there are no told you so people here.Buddy we have been THROUGH it. there is no shame with this thing.i could not have thrown the scripts away.i'm as sick as adog today and no script for days.when you write here people show concern,even worry. when you dissappear people hope it's because your'e doing better.but itis usually not the case.when i have a full bottle of oxys this is the last place i come. i admit it.nobody is going to judge you man.i've been on this roller coaster so long.i'll be clean 5 days and someone comes around with some.do what you got to do man.you seem to have a sense of humour so don't take any teasing the wrong way. this is so serious, humour is needed at times. keep us posted as many times a day as needed. there is no FAULT in this matter.good luck to you and yours brother. :  )

[Renee1060]

Thanks for the info Tom.  I went ahead and bought some Imodium (immodium)..am trying like hell to get plenty of fluids down me but it isn't easy.  Last night was day 2...wound up breaking a lamp and clearing off a table.  Woke up on the floor without a clue as to what happened.  Has anyone else had this happen?

[Renee1060]

Hi Angie...yes I took them for chronic pain.  But, after all of these years it has gotten to where no medication would help the pain and put me into a deep depression.  I've been told that opiates will cause depression after long term use anyway..have you heard of this?  Yes, the meds did definately stop the pain and made me feel FANTASTIC for many many years.  I detoxed last October from all the methadone etc etc...made it until February 21st when I walked into a new home my fiance and I just bought and found him dead!  Yes...I started using again and of course all the doctors believed I had a valid reason to be on the meds and stated I'd be on them for life.  I don't get that euphoric feeling anymore unless I smash the oxcontin tabs like I've heard so many others have done...geez and I thought I was the only one. I was definately trying to escape reality at that point.  Now I just want to get off the meds and get some strength back.  I definately do miss the euphoric high and dammit I've been taking this garbage so long I don't have a clue how I'm going to act without it. Man was last night rough!
I know I need to tell the new Dr. I'll be seeing everything about the fact that my pain is tolerable without the medication now but then I also have done this in the past...and when I really did need something to help the pain...forget it!!!  I was labeled an addict.  
I wonder if all people with chronic pain become addicts or what?  I am truly hoping I can do without any of it and that I become stronger as the days go by.
Thank you to all of you that are responding...I really appreaciate it and can use the support.
Take Care

[Renee1060]

I found the doctor that I'll be seeing on Monday listed with the AMA.  Just need to tell him the truth and pray he doesn't tell me stay on this garbage.

[Ken to Chad]

Hey bud, welcome back. Iknow better than alot of people what its like to relapse, cause I do it so often. But One thing I do know about it is you cant get down on yourself about it. Dont get a case of the f--k its. Just start over is all we can do. I know it didnt take me one try to get addicted, so its not gonna be one try to get off this ****. How do they say it, Dont quit Quiting. By the way Im on day 5 ,WOO HOO, longest for me yet.

[tom to loreen]

err ... you want to run the found-my-fiance-dead part by us again? You breezed by that like it was just another bad day. Don't you think that has something to do with all of this?
Anyway, the weakness and the clumsiness sound like my own opiate withdrawal experiences. I think it's really listlessness plus you're really not into what you're doing, and it translates into clumsy movements. Very, very familiar ... it would all vanish in an instant if you used again, not that I'm advising you to do that (I'm not advising you not to, either). You must realize that oxycodone is one step from morphine/heroin country. And you were combining it with a pretty good jolt of Valium. That's a very powerful, and in my opinion, dangerous combo for a lot of reasons. You're probably feeling the effects of getting off both of those drugs. You know, a lot of MD's would probably agree that those are the two most blatantly addictive drugs in the pharmacy. Just a thought ...

[Renee1060]

Regarding my fiance...he was staying in Sacto to work on the house I/We had bought and I went back home to the other house.  I didn't hear from him Sunday night and became worried...no answer on the cell phone but thought he was asleep.  Monday morning I still received his voice mail and knew something was wrong.  So I drove to Sacto...walked in....and found him dead on the kitchen floor.  Mike was an alcohol and drug rehab counselor that I met when I tried to commit suicide due to no hope for help with chronic pain and the insanity it was causing.  He was a heroin addict for over 25 years...clean & sober for 6 years and we had a fantastic life ahead of us.  Mike was Diabetic and insulin dependent...he went into insulin shock and never came out of it. This is the most devastating part of my life..he was my life.  
So YES Tom...it definately has to do with the problems I'm facing now regarding addiction/depression.  It's not easy talking about this.
The doctors put me on Methadone in 1995 for the pain...after trying Vicodin, Lorcet 10, pure Hydrocodone, Percocet, Demmerol, Morphine, damn the list just goes on and on.  I quit everything on 10/21/99 and didn't start to get any opiates until Mikes death in February 2000.  I'm sure it was a mental thing but it seemed to exacerbated the pain 10-fold.  Therefore I was put on the Oxycontin and Valium.  My tolerance was apparently still extremely high..they told me to take 120mgs/morning 80/afternoon and 120/nights.  I found that I would wake up at about 4:00 am with my mouth watering...feeling like withdrawls which I thought was crazy...but that is what was happening.
I didn't want to go through all that garbabe of being addicted again...so I went into the hospital to detox 2 weeks ago..stayed 5 days...made it for about 5 days at home and wound up taking the damned Oxycontin AGAIN!!  Plus the new doctor gave me another script for 240 Lorcet 10's which I started to eat like crazy to stop the withdrawl from the Oxycontin.  What a rediculous circle!  I actually thought I would be able to only take the Lorcet or Oxycontin "AS NEEDED"...yeah right.  
You're soooo correct...I felt great for a couple of days but knew I had to stop...so here I am at day 3 again, babbeling like an idiot.
I've never used street drugs...but none the less...an addict is an addict.  No matter how you got started in the first place eh?
One doctor told me that Vicodin and Xanax are the 2 most highly prescribed and addictive drugs on the market today...with clonipine closing in on the action.
Take Care All

[tom]

hi im new to this and have been an addict on and off for the past 20 years  my doctcr knew i was a herion addict for 2 years and i stayed clean for 4 years then i had a accdent and i am in cronic pain i hate beinig addicted to pain killers and it seems like the only end is death i hurt so bad when i stop taking them but i abuse them when i have them the depression is a real part
of with drawel drugs make you lose your grip on what is real

[Leigh]

I'm sorry about your fiance. My boyfriend has juvenile diabetes, and we've had a few insulin shock scares. What a cruel irony, too--he's clean from heroin, and dies from a drug that is supposed to save his life.
I can only begin to imagine your pain. I'm a former Vic-user. I started taking a few a day, and then my mom was diagnosed with a uniformly fatal disease. Naturally, I coped by increasing my daily narcotic dosage. Although I've been clean for a few weeks, I still peruse the Internet in the hopes that some scientist will discover the benefits of using narcotics to treat depression. I wasn't getting a euphoric high from my Vics, but they kept me from plummeting into depression. Maintenance, I suppose you could call my addiction. So now I'm clean, but I have little to no energy, and an even less desire for life. But I know it will get easier, soon. It has to--I can't go much lower.
I'm taking an SSRI now, but honestly, it doesn't come close to treating depression the way Vics did. Sometimes I wonder if I'm on the wrong meds, but on the other hand--I'm sure that's my internal way of searching for a new addiction.
My thoughts are with you. It's a lonely, lonely battle. NA and AA do help, but still...They don't erase that constant question of "why." For a few hours, I might forget, but when I get home and lie in my bed, I think, and think, and think....
Oh--and Chad. Don't beat yourself up. Relapse happens to all of us, and it might happen a few more times before you bottom out. But the best thing to do is use that guilt and anger toward your recovery. Let it be a positive tool, not a destructive one. That guilt and anger and shame can either make you (ie, motivate your recovery), or break you (ie, send you back into the depths of addiction hell). Don't be afraid to post as you vascillate between your feelings and cravings...remember, we've all been there and back.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Hi, just thought I'd let you guys know what's up. So I'm at this party last with this washed up kid actor (cory feldman) and he was so whacked out on perks it wasn't even funny. It made us realize how people are when on opy's. I never realized how "slow" we actually move. I think that we believe that we are flying but really we are just slow talking snails. Now don't get me wrong, I suppose the feeling is fine but NOTHING beats being straight. I know I screwed up by doing the Oxy's the other day (oh ya, forgot to mention the perk boosters) but today I feel great! I guess this should be considered day three cause of the relapse but I definitly am starting to feel that we will soon be over our urge to use. I hope so anyway. You see, I have been through so many drugs that I think I get bored with them after awhile. Do any of you guys ever feel bored with the whole "perk" world? Talk soon...gotta go to school today to see if I can get a loan,,,,CHAD

[Mike P. to Ken]

Loreen: Are you still in Calif.? I'm very near Sacramento myself. I thought everyone here was east coast. Nice to see a neighbor.

Chad: Corey Feldman huh? He was busted about 6 years ago for coke and heroin. Nice to see he stayed clean. Wait a minute, who am I to say, I'm still using myself. I do feel bored with the "Vicodin" world - I've never been able to find a doctor that'll prescribe like some of you guys get - **** loreen 240 lorcets? That's incredible. I fight tooth and nail to get my 30 Lortab a month. Supplementing it with anything and everything in between. Opiates are messed up - they just won't let you go easily. They won't me at least. I can't stop using even casually without bad withdrawals. Like Burroughs pointed out - once you're an addict, you get a habit much easier. My wife could take 45 Lortab straight for 15 days and then just stop when they run out like nothing. On day 16 my legs will be kicking and I'll be going nuts. It's like my body goes deep down into addiction so much faster than someone who doesn't use. Seems like you either run with a faster crowd than me, (Hollyweird) or Corey F. has really hit the skids huh? You know what the worst part about all this is? Envy. Sometimes coming to this board is nothing more than a catalyst. Some days I think I'd be better off not knowing the URL!. Later

[Renee1060]

Yes Chad...I'm in Sacramento.  Just moved here a couple of months ago.  It blows my mind when I hear that people CANNOT get opiates easily.  But then again...the chronic pain game isn't a fun one to deal with at all...it's pure hell.  They just keep dishing out the dope and keep you totally hooked...how else are they going to get paid?

[Mike P. to Ken]

Sorry, it was I who is in Sacramento - not Chad - I had a message for each of you...:) Chronic pain is definitely a problem for me - My health insurance sucks, but I'd love to know where it is you are going around here for pain management. It equally blows my mind when I see people get alot of pills for pain management. I think it's the long hair I have - I couldn't have pain with long hair! I'm just a doper.

[Renee1060]

Mike do you have the any chat programs like ICQ or PowWow?  If so we could talk online.  Let me know.

[Mike P. to Ken]

No I don't have those...I did a quick search and came up with this chat room that I know both of us can get into...I'll go there now, it's 1:15pm...And I'll check periodically all afternoon. Here's the link - ht tp://qfg.tierranet.com/crowechat.html. Remove the space between the http - I didn't want to place a live link here. See you soon I hope.

[Renee1060]

Mike...I'm a bit confused about your situation.  You say you're still using and want to find a doctor to give out alot of pain meds right?  I apologize if I'm wrong but it didn't sound like you were using only to control the pain.  What type of pain are you having, what caused it, and when did it start?  Also can I ask how old you are?  I'm 39 and have had this **** for almost 17 years now.  The addiction didn't catch up with me for a very long time though.  I was very much like your wife..could use it for a couple of weeks then put it down with no problem.  But of course that has all changed.
Today I was looking at the pharmacy printouts...it's total insanity.  The DEA has been hasseling me to turn in the doctor that was prescribing all the Adderal, Dexidrine, morphine, methadone, hydrocodone...**** I've already listed once...no need to keep going.  But the point I'm trying to make is that finding a doctor that will just give you whatever you ask for IS NOT THE SOLUTION FOR CHRONIC PAIN!!!  If you need it then that's a completely different story.  You think you have a problem now Mike...think about if you were given over 1080, yes 1 thousand and 80 pills at a time.  If this sounds like heaven to you...well, I don't know what to say.  
I flushed over 4,000 pills last November & December.  I had them stashed in a safe, safety deposit boxes, in the garage, in my shoes and boots, jacket pockets etc etc...was afraid my son (who is a nurse)would get ahold of them if he knew how much I had.  Nobody believed I could have that much dope!!!  But they learned when we brought it all back to flush down the toilet and man did I ball my eyes out!  I swear all the animals in the sea were probably pretty high for quite awhile...better for them than me!

[Mike P. to Ken]

Good Lord! 1080! I've had several surgeries - abdominal/intestinal - that has led to chronic adhesion pain that will be there forever. Removing the scars may lead to more. This was pretty well taken care of pain wise until 2 years ago. I was hit head on by a drunk driver and suffered a compression fracture of one of my vertabrae. He went to jail, I got a new car and a bad back. I'm 29 years old and have been using pain meds for over 7 years. I don't want 1080 pills - nor would I be able to use that many. Just the thought of that much acetaminophen alone going through my body scares me. I'm in a position where my physician allows me 30 pills a month. One a day or 4-5 days worth of chronic pain/use. It never lasts me. 60 I could do. Hell 45 would be better than 30. I'm the guy who worked at a pharmacy and didn't take any drugs, so I honestly keep it somewhat in check. Am I addicted - yes. Do I still need the pills - yes. It's a double edge sword. My doctor that gives me 30 hasn't even checked my back thoroughly. I TRULY believe she gives me 30 JUST to pacify me. So to answer your question - some sympathy would be nice from the medical community - not just a doctor that patronizes me. Again I have terrible health insurance and changing Dr's right now isn't really an option.

[Renee1060]

It just keeps saying that it's waiting to connect to the server for daCrowes?  Can't find anyone in there?

[Renee1060]

can't seem to get through to you...just states wait to connect to server?

[Mike P. to Ken]

Try this one:

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/trashsling/index.html

go to the bottom of the page and click on the Fern Gully link.

[tom to loreen]

sorry to hear about your fiancé ... you've been through a lot. It sounds like he'd at least found something good with you before he died. Some don't get even that.

Now, what was this about the DEA? (you're a trip how you just drop those bombs in there). Tell us all about this. Did you get busted? Or did the DEA just call up all the Schedule II records and drop by?

Also, what in the world is wrong with your neck? I couldn't get those kinds of drugs if I used a gun.

I have three bulging disks and have had one surgery associated with this condition. I get my Darvon (sounds trivial next to your stuff) from my family MD, who is also a personal friend. If I even ask for Vicodin he starts to get nervous, so I just don't press it. At the moment, a pretty high dose of Darvon handles my pain and gets me just happy enough not to feel left out. Still, I only get enough by having my wife ask him for the same stuff for arthritis. She isn't interested in it and doesn't really mind that I use her rx. Otherwise, I'd be short of what I need by a considerable amount. I've been tempted to exploit my condition to get better drugs, but I've been down that road and didn't feel very good about myself afterwards. It's just as well, but still, it blows my mind to hear about the drugs you guys get. If I asked for something Schedule II, my doctor's head would explode.

[Renee1060]

Thank you for the kind words Tom in regards to Michael.  
As for another bomb (smile)...at least you got me to smile.  I'll try to make it very brief.  When I tried to commit suicide last year...I first made every attempt to see what type of help was available in the community.  Which turned out to be ZILCH!!!!  BUT, I talked to the Director of Mental Health and told him what meds I had.  He totally freaked and wanted me to go to the DEA.  I said noooooooo way!!!!  I did tell him the name of the Dr. though and I'm sure something will be done to stop him.  
Michael took me to an attorney to find out what could be done about this doctor because he believed he was totally negligent (sp).  Michael was right of course...but he died so soon afterwards that I just gave up.  Couldn't even think about putting up a fight like that without him beside me.
Well we have something in common...neck problems.  I worked for the Criminal Justice Dept.  Was hit in the head with a large steel and glass door which herniated 3 disks in my neck.  I made it almost 8 years before the pain was intolerable and finally agreed to the surgery.  Yeah right...I had waited too long.  I couldn't find a dang doctor to work on me...it was too serious.  Finally I found one..but of course the surgery wasn't successful and in some ways caused alot more damage.  Never thought that would be possible.
I'm not saying that you're pain isn't real at all Tom...but if I was in so much pain that I couldn't take it anymore...I wouldn't give a damn what my doctor said.  I would insist that he start to treat it correctly and if he couldn't handle the job to refer me to a pain clinic that would hopefully have some answers.  What a vicious cycle eh?  drugs or pain...then drugs for pain...then pain from drugs!!

[Renee1060]

Wow...day 4 and still not feeling very great...but it is a bit better.  The weird thing is that the Doctor gave me Wellbutrin to help supposedly with depression.  As it turned out...I'm having some pretty weird and uncomfortable side effects from that stuff also.  So, out it goes tomorrow.  
I finally made myself get out of the house...went to see the new Highlander movie.  I was so upset over Christopher Lambert dying that I actually wanted to start taking the damn dope gain.  I looked at the bottle...then put it away again luckily.  But then I made myself a drink.  I only drink about 2-3 times/year.  I hope this isn't going to turn into a habit now.  
Hopefully tomorow will be better and I'll be a bit stronger.  Thanks for all the help in here from all of you.  I really appreciate it!

[tom to loreen]

another offhand bomb! The Criminal Justice Department? Yeah, just another humdrum job ... now, what do you mean, "worked" for the Criminal Justice Department? Most veteran opiate eaters have an ongoing interest in their relative proximity to law enforcement officials. Are you an investigator? An attorney? Your life is nothing if not colorful ...

[Renee1060]

Another bomb?  You crack me up.  I don't have an aversion to any law enforcement officials due to opiate use.  I have other reasons (smile).  I'm retired now..have been since 1/95.  What state do you live in Tom.  Mike made a reference to everyone here being on the East Coast.

[Joan C]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you had those scripts for a long time, then you get them filled saying someone said you could get them 1 day early.  I was under the impression from your post that you could have gotten them anytime the eighteen or so days you withdrew on your own.  Remember you kept on saying the temptation to get them filled was over-whemling?  What gives, something just dosn't seem kosher here.

[RE:Chad]

I think the Chadster lies to us strangers as much as he lies to himself.

[tom to Loreen and j]

talking to you from Laguna Beach, SoCal, Loreen.

j, perhaps chad's doc post-dates his triplicates(?) That would certainly be a way to fix him up with several month's worth, but prevent him from filling all of them at one time. Just a theory.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

No, no, no! What don't you understand! What do I benifit from lying to you people? Yes, the scripts were post dated. So the temptation came the day the scripts were due to be filled. I screwed up big time. So what should I do? Beat myself up? I don't think so...Listen, doing drugs is a choice. You either do them or not. It's that simple! I guarantee you one thing....Life is so much harder straight then anything else! Doing drugs is such a cop out. Trust me by no means am I ANTI using. I am far from that point but it's time to face reaility for myself. I sit here on this Saturday night without nothing to do but watch TV. My point is this...I can go next door right now and get anything I want...Oxy's, coke, GHB, meth you name it, but I choose not to. Does that make me a better person? I don't know, but what I do know is that hopefully, one day, I will be able to enjoy life to it's fullist STRAIGHT. That's a long shot but what are my alternatives? Sure, I could get high right now (just talkin' about it makes me want to) but what about tommorow? Should I get high tommorow just to escape what I am feeling now? We all have the power to make things better in our lives. I don't know if by me quitting drugs will improve the quality of my life but I am certain of one thing. If I continue using I will never know...OK, I'm done venting...Do any of you guys want to talk one on one? I have ICQ and am pretty freakin' bored right now. Let me know....Chad

[Angie to Ken]

To answer your question "YES" you are a better person than me. Although I have been off the stuff since March, I couldn't handle the temptation of knowing it was right next door. There has been at least 2 days since March that I have used when the opportunity presented itself. The first time I used I too, felt like ****. I couldn't understand why I couldn't get high so I took more to no avail. Someone from my op rehab stated that once you have the information and knowledge about drug use it will kind of kill your buzz. I was so mad about using and not getting off on it. Then I thought "wow maybe this bad feeling I'm experiencing will make me think twice about using again." Unfortunately, the next time I took them it was just like old times,with that great feeling overcoming my mind and body. The problem with this disease is that we are always testing ourselves.There's a saying in the NA and AA rooms that states "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I always thought I could use successfully and gave it my best shot but.....I am glad you came back to share with us. I truly believe you have always told the truth. If you can't do it here, God help you. Just be fore warned that being around it or knowing that it's right next door is playing with fire. It may not happen in a week, month, or even a year but one day you will be sucked right into using again. How's your girlfriend handling all this? I think I remember you stating that she has great willpower. Take care.........

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

She is doing great! I mean she has the same urges as I do but we cope. It being right next door is very tuff but what can I do besides move? Talk soon, gotta eat....thats something I forgot to do on pills....chad

[tom to Chad]

Right next door? I would resist that, oh, 3 ... maybe 4 seconds, tops. I'm not kidding, either. The only source I have ever had for anything but pot is a pharmacy. I would not be able to stop thinking about it if it was next door, no rx required, just bring cash. I'm curious, how much does oxy sell for on the street? I bet it's pretty steep. How do you think they get theirs? Is it brand name? I have this recurrent fantasy of being in a pharmacy after hours with no fear of cops or alarms, and all the time in the world to pour over the shelves and just fill a shopping bag with all those delicious Schedule II babies. I like my freedom too much to ever try that, but I can dream, can't I?

I admire your strength and determination to leave all this behind. I'd say, because of your age and stage of life, you'll never have a better chance to do it than now. But, Chad, no need to be down on yourself for filling those scripts. It just proves what we already know, that you're human like the rest of us. There's no reason to be ashamed, especially since you really are making an effort to recover. If it takes a while longer, don't worry about it. Recovery, like life, is a wave, not a straight line. You're a decent human being who cares about others even when he's in withdrawal. You're a good man, Chad. Don't ever let anyone make you think otherwise. I'll have to get ICQ and chat when I have a bit more time. Take care.

[lori to Chad and Ken]

Chad I'm just glad you're alive.  Guilt is normal after relapse but no one has the right to put you down for it.  HOWEVER, don't do it again for the sake of your soul.  We were worried about you dude. Who the hell is Corey Feldman and then again who cares - just another addict. Remember babe one hour at a time - school will help and get a hobby besides popping pills.  God bless ya - stay clean and mean.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Tom,
The Oxy's around here (Philly) sell for half of their strenth. So an Oxy 40 would be $20. Some people sell them a little bit cheaper. Perks go for $5 (name brand, Blue ones) Vicoden 750es's go for $4. The prices around here are somewhat steep as compared to other area's. All in all, a person ends of spendin' a whole lot of cash. The funny thing is that I live in a nice area. I mean were not talking inner city here. It always amazed me how many people appear to lead normal or should I say drug free lives and yet they are so whacked it's not even funny. People get their pills from all sorts of ways. One guy down the street works for a distribution center that handles the manufactour  who makes perks (endo pharm.) He has a good hook up but he will go down like everyone else. Most people just get scripts from their pain managment docs.

Lori,
Cori Feldman is a loser who appeared in like 30 films in the 80's like the lost boys and gremlins. Dude was a millionare and blew it all on herion and clubbin'. My girlfriend and I were at a club the other night and he tryed getting in by dropping his name and the door guy was like "so, get the **** back in line and wait like everyone else" We were all laughin' our asses off!Any suggestions for a hobby? I was considering the purchase and redistribution of cocaine. Just kidding!......tried that, didn't work!     Chad

[Angie to Ken]

I'm curious about the guy with the great hook-up. Does he just take from the distribution center? Aren't they counted and checked? Please elaborate if you can--hey I need a new fantasy. HA HA! Earlier this year I was "helping" a friend who needed money and I needed her pain meds. I was giving her 50.00 for 20 darvocet. Although compared to your price quotes this may sound inexpensive but that was about 1 days worth. You stated that you went clubbin', do you drink when you go out? Although AA and NA advise that you can't do that, I always felt it depended on the individual. I don't like to drink because even one drink will make me feel nauseous before I get a buzz. Once in a great while I will attempt a white russian. What did you do with the oxys you said you got rid of? Did you end up selling them or flushing them? Glad to see you and your girl went out. How was that, I mean clubbin' while oxy free?

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

You know what? Going out while straight is tottaly different then anything that I am use too. I don't know for sure but I am much more talkative and alert when I am straight. The only real differance is the fact that if I am not really enjoying myself I'll leave. Where as if I was on perks or something I would hang untill 6am. I guess I am getting older but midnight seems to be my limit. Yes I do drink when I go out but usually only two or three beers, tops. When I see other people high it makes me feel better that I am not. I know that sounds weird but I feel like I actually acomplish something if I don't use. I am still stressful alot, I snap at stupid things like my parrots whom all of a sudden seem to have increased their volume by 50. I guess I never noticed them while high. Thats another story....Anyway, I find myself doing more but I know that this will be a long process. I sold the pills (oh man, here comes the anti chad messages) but I don't plan on going back to my doctor so I guess that was a one time thing. The guy I spoke of eairlier controlls the inventory (no kidding) so he gets as many as he wants. He will slip up cause he runs his mouth to much. I'll check back ......Chad

[loanne]

i sympathize with the relapse thing big time.  i detoxed in may and am back to using 3-4 percs a day.  have been for 4 months.  i'm planning on tapering.  i have read, the lower the dose, the slower the taper.  i believe i am capable of this as i'm just sick and tired of it, and i'm tired of being in fear of withdrawl.  it rules my every waking moment.  i just wanna be free.  i don't want to use my primary care physician for various reasons.  if i'm unable to taper, i WILL go into detox,  i know you're not doctors, but please, some advice about tapering? thanks.

[tom to joanne]

I don't have any slow-vs-fast taper know-how, but common sense would say, if you have the patience and discipline to do it slowly, that would be the safest, least unpleasant way to go, regardless of the drug. Just use your head and prepare before you start. You've been through it before, so you know the likely symptoms you'll have to deal with. I think there's another detox in my near future. It's certainly the surest way to get to the other side. It's so difficult to carve out the time to just check out of life for a week or two to do it, though. Good luck to you.

[Renee1060]

Dammit...started taking the Lorcets again!  I can't believe I've done this.  I was just so pissed off and tired of feeling so horrible that I took 2, then 2 more, and of course 2 more to see if it would help out with my being physically weak (and mentally obviously).  When I woke up this morning I took 4 to try to get myself out of bed...it finally started to kick in a little bit.  Took 4 more today...went back to bed at about 7:30 pm and woke up at about 10:30 pm feeling the withdrawls already.  
Did anyones else get to the point that no matter how much they used they felt physically weak?  It seems pretty dang hopeless.  I used to be such a strong person...not anymore.

[Angie to Ken]

I take it that the Lorcets did not make the weakness go away? Did they make you feel better at all? If you go through withdrawl only after a few hours of not using you may have a VERY unpleasant time with withdrawl. I know that may sound obvious, but withdrawl symptoms very in degrees of unpleasantness. I have experienced the absolute worse and then the milder chills and irritability but was able to sleep. For me, it was impossible to withdraw without help as I had no discipline to decrease gradually. I once had someone dole them out for me and I got down to four a day but when they ran out I still experienced withdrawl. I even took Fiorinal in between to ease symptoms. (Without codiene). I guess my point is it's very difficult if not impossible to do this on your own. You must seek help if you are to be successful. I got caught taking some percs from my job and I had to get help at that time. Sometimes I wonder if this was a cry for help 'cause I never would have admitted it on my own, let alone ask for help. Lorcet always gave me energy so I never felt weak after taking them. Maybe there is something else going on with you. Better get checked out to know for sure. GOOD LUCK and don't put it off!

[Mike P. to Ken]

Hey Loreen, if you're around this morning, post back and/or go to the chat site I posted about above. Sorry to see you're down today. Hopefully we'll talk soon.

[Renee1060]

Yes you're correct Angie...the Lorcets didn't take the weakness away.  They only took away some of the leg pain/cramps and stopped the endless sweats.  This is really scaring the hell out of me.  I go to see the new pain doc today...will pleed my entire case and see what happens.  I don't know what else to do.  I'm afraid something else is going on also.
I know I cannot do it alone...and finding help isn't very easy.  I've looked into just about everything.  The only way into a hospital (for detox)...would be a psychiatric unit and you have to have a dual diagnosis of some type of mental illness and addiction.  Basically you have to tell them you are going to commit suicide.  I don't need to do that...it's happening to me now in an extremely slow and cruel manner.
Hopefully this doctor can help..he's an addiction and chronic pain specialist...but as I said before, the pharmacist said I'll just be back with 4 times the amount of dope from him as before.

[Renee1060]

Didn't see your post until about 1:15 this afternoon.  I'll try to meet you at Fern Gully at either 5 or 8 tonight.  You can email me at ***@****

[Renee1060]

What a disaster...doctor stated my case is TOOOOOOOOOO difficult.  Won't prescribe anything for the pain or for help with the withdrawl symptoms until he gets all my records.  That'll only take a few months!  I definately know I can't stay in this house and go it alone.  I finally broke down and called my parents.  Dammit I didn't want them to have to see me this way.  
I'm going to go to their place for the night...hopefully they'll be able to help me out through this.  I just hope I don't bite their heads off while I'm there.  I've been saying so many mean things that I've been trying to stay away from everyone.
I don't know how to live without the damned pain meds anymore!
Good luck to all of you...I'll be back.

[Jojo]

I've been using Oxycontin IV for quite awhile and I'm feeling pretty bad when I do them these days... I get a pressure in the chest and it feels like I can't breath.  I wonder if I'm getting Embulisms from injecting the pills.

[Lynn to Neena]

Loreen, I am reading this entire forum because I am hooked on percs and found a lot of other people are too! I want to answer a question you asked on your 9/11 post. YES! I am to the point that no matter how many percs I eat to get "energy" I wind up feeling physically weak and tired. Except for those 2 that I need to wake up in the morning.  Those are the only ones I actually feel. But then I just chase that high all day and it never feels the same. See if this sounds familiar: 6:00 am jump out of bed, two percs and a cup of coffee. Feels REAL good. 7:00--take 2 more, 8:00--3 more, (how come I don't feel as good) 11:00--3 more, by the end of the day I've consumed 20 and hate myself! And every day is like groundhog day, same ****, different day. I got a little piggy with my stash so now I only have enough for my 2 in the morning until someone calls me that has been to the doctor. What a way to live. And life is so short, why can't I enjoy it without feeling I have to be high all the time? Dammmm this disease!

[Renee1060]

Yes I can relate to what is happening to you Lynn.  The so-called "pain & addiction specialist" told me that taking narcotics will not make a person feel so weak and fatigued and there must be something else going on with me.  He also stated that narcotics do not usually cause depression in people dealing with chronic pain...just the opposite...they give a person some quality of life, i.e., freedom from the pain.  
Wow did this confuse me!  I'd been told numerous times that narcotics do cause depression over long-term use and that was one of the reasons I was sent to the specialist.  Needless to say I left the specialists office extremely confused and depressed.  I was thinking that if he didn't know for sure what was happening with me then nobody ever would.
Luckily I received another opinion.  I changed primary care physicians and was totally blown away at what the new doctor told me.  He is very new in the medical field and hasn't become calloused by all the red tape and bullshit thus far.  Anyway, that is a totally different subject that I will stay away from for now.
The new doc said that opiates can in fact cause depression and that addiction can cause a person to fall even deeper into depression.  The depression can become worse due to the stress factors put upon them by other doctors fearing to give out schedule II & III narcotics, being dumped, shuffled around, etc etc.  The patient is then thrown into this vicious cycle of finding a doctor to treat their pain, the doctor goes on vacation, the on-call physician will not give out the narcotics, throwing the patient into withdrawls, deepening the depression, etc etc.  I hope I'm making sense here.  
Anyway...he stated that if a person in fact wants off the medication because it is not working for them anymore...and taking more and more of them doesn't work either...then it's time to taper off.  Not just quit after years and years of learning how to live while taking the stuff...it takes time for your body and mind to learn to live without the stuff again.  Therefore, a very VERY slow taper is warranted.
He put me back on 120 mg's of Oxycontin 3 times/day.  But this time he told me to take it in 8 hour intervals so my body can slowly get used to this, not morning noon and night like before. I will then take away 40 mg's away from one dose (my choice as to when) and leave it there for a week.  Today is the first day I have cut out 40 mg's and so far so good.  I don't feel any withdrawls.  I am still very lethargic but am sure the energy will come back to me like it was before I became so dependent upon this stuff.
Your energy level will come back Lynn...you...like me...need to be patient.  Is there any way that you can get your supply of percs and give them to someone to dole them out for you?  Are you getting any of your meds through a doctor?  Have you tried being totally straight with a doctor and telling him that you're hooked, don't want to be, and need help getting off of them?
You're right...life is way too short as it is and, we are only shortening it further by taking the meds.  It took many of us a long time to get hooked in the first place...why do we expect things to change overnight for the better when we stop using?  It's going to take time and patience to become "normal" without the use of drugs.  The only alternative as I see it...is to die a very slow and agonizing death.  
We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by giving our minds and bodies a real chance to heal and live without drugs.
Let me know what you're thoughts are.

[Lynn to Neena]

First I think it is important to know a little more about me, since I am new to this god sent website. I do NOT suffer from any  pain, I take the percs because I used to enjoy the buzz and energy they gave me, now I'm just addicted to them. I am going to try and taper, just 2 in the morning with my coffee when I feel them the most. Last night I took 3 percs after work at 5:00 because I was tired, had some laundry to do, and wanted energy to do it. Well, they had just the opposite effect! They made my heart race and I was still tired. Then I couldn't come down off them so I had to take a xanax. This morning I feel like ****. What a vicious cycle! Why can't I just be normal and do laundry like every other person? Why indeed. So I'm not taking any more after a late in the day, since they are a waste. I look forward to talking to you and everyone else concerned here.

[susanlea]

how long before a person who's been off oxycotin will get back to normal?  My boyfriend, as far as I know has been clean for about 6 weeks, but he still shows no interest in any fun activities are on being intimate.  While he was actively using he lost all interest in anything, and actually became mean and abusive, he no longer is mean or abusive, but he still seems very distant, any advice or anything I should look for, or maybe is he using again? Thank you

[april]

I've been using pain meds for 3 years now, and let me say it's getting so old! At first I needed them for my back pain, and even now I am facing surgery for endometriosis and a ovarian cyst, so I do have pain, but I still take 20 or more a day. I've gone through withdraws sooo many times it's pathetic. I only have 7 1/2 pills left and i had 20 4 hours ago. I want to stop so much when i take them, but when i'm out i want them desperatly. I hate withdraws, the constant aching, cramps, nausea, deppresion, shits, etc...
     I forgot what its like to wake up in the morning and feel good and normal. I'm afraid of seizures and liver damage and all the other health problems that go along with the abuse. Escpecially dying in my sleep. I've been taking them constantly for 6 months straight every day, so I know this next withdraw is going to be HELL!! But i've done it so many times before, i can do it again. But the difference is this will be the last time, i hope. Ive said that before but i want it a lot this time
  GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE AND HANG IN THERE NO ONE HAS TO  BE ALONE