How much should I taper?

[shubunkin]

Hello, I am currently taking Xanax. I started taking 3/.5 mg a day. I have tapered now down to 2 and 1/4 pills a day. This has been done over a weeks period. The withdrawels have not been TOO bad except for the throat tightness and chest tightness. I am 28 years old and have been taking these for almost a year. I am also taking 20mg Paxil. How much should I taper weekly or should I say how much can I safely taper. I have read about seizures with this drug. Thankyou.

[Recopiateaddict]

I too am on Xanax and was on Paxil 30 mg, but switched to Lexapro.  As far as the Xanax goes my Psychiatrist told me that if I for some reason "cold turkey" stopped that I would be very uncomfortable, but I would not be in grave danger of having a seizure and I am taking 4 mg a day.  I also am a recovering opiate addict and I know that Binzodiazapine withdrawl is nothing compared to opiate withdrawal.  Having said all this I also am a pre-med major and know that you are tapering too fast if you are having tightening in the chest "respiratory distress".  My best advice is to taper about 1/4 the original dosage amount each week.  THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO CONSULT A CERTIFIED PHYSICIAN ABOUT YOUR TAPERING, SO YOU WILL NOT BE UNCOMFORTABLE.  Everyone is different, but at a 1.5 mg dose, tapering should be very comfortable for you.  The only reason you should have problems is if you were abusing the drug, which from what I understand you were not.  Good luck, but like I said the best thing for you to do is consult a physician.

[southernbelle]

love to you, i will be thinking about you.  you should talk to your doc.  you're in my thoughts and on my heart.  peace and love to you!

[shubunkin]

Thankyou, I have consulted with my doctor and I do not think she knows much about it. That is why I have turned here to people who know the most about it and have been there. Only they are the ones who knows what it is like. I am taking it slow I just need the support. Thanks to you all, God bless.

[Bodymechanic]

I agree that this should be done under a doctors supervision. Unfortunately, as you have already found out, most are not very helpful.  At the dose you are taking a seizure is very unlikely. If you are worried clonidine will help prevent it. Clonidine will also help with the chest tighness as well as help reduce the anziety associated with withdrawal.  I suggest that you continue to slowly taper. Reducing your dosage by .10mg a week should leave you feeling comfortable.  You can reduce this to .05mg if you start to feel bad.  Keep us posted.  Myself and many others have been where you are now.

[FINISHED?]

G...WHERE YA AT BRO? HAVEN'T SEEN NOR HEARD FROM YOU. You doing O.K.? How's the taper going. Hows your buddy? Hit me back & let us know you're doing alright.

FINISHED!

[saveyourself]

Hello All,

This is day nine of quiting cold turkey with the Thomas recipe.  I was amazed at how well it helped.  However, I am feeling like I got hit by a mack truck today.  I stopped the valium two days ago.  I have 2 clondine tabs left. The cramps which are the worst in my legs don't even loosen up when my wife massages them.  I am taking the vitamins but I am exhausted and feeling the consequences of a long run of oxy and percs. What a price we pay.

Here are my questions if anyone, especially REX1 or oxic has suggestions,  I feel worse today than I did on day 3 and 4. I went to a NA meeting which I barely made it thru. Should I continue the valium and clondine for another week, my doc will work with me.  Or just rough it out with the vitamins, ect?

How long will these funky feelings continue,  I was on a methadone program in 1988 for a year, quit cold turkey and it took 2 months to feel better. There is no way I am going to pop an opiate, hot baths help for 5 minutes after i dry off.  Thanks for letting me ramble and thanks to all of you who share.  One final thought,in this day of such progress in medication, why can't they invent a pill that neutralizes withdrawls. Answer: money.  Hope your day is a great one.
God Bless
Greg

[kell737]

Good luck too you and take it slow!  You have my prayers

~Kell

[oxic]

Hey Buddy, hang tough.
(Note, my other handle is percsnomas, just fyi)
Refresh my memory, weren't you doing the equivalent of 10 OC 40's or 400mg of oxycontin, plus 100 + mgs of oxycodone??)
Thats over 100 percs/day equiv.(sorry, if i've got you mixed up with someone else).
I'm extremely proud of you making it this far....remember oxycontin is longer acting(unless you were crushing it, snorting it, etc), SO ITS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME GETTING OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM.
I'm glad you have a doc. who will work with you. Now as far as the valium goes, I'd probably not get more(since you've been on it for a week and a half), but I would continue with the clonidine, unless of course your blood pressure drops too low.
Others may have differing opinions about that.
Although i came off 60-90mgs Oxycodone/day, over a 13 day period, i basically felt shitty for a couple weeks. As i mentioned previously, around the 3 week mark things dramatically improved. Man i lived in my hot tub, many times not having enough energy to climb out. I only used the L-Tyrosine, and the rest of the ingredients of the Thomas recipe, and basically toughed it out. I did have my doc give me Trazadone, to help me fall asleep, but the leg thing was a ***** for quite some time.
THE GOOD NEWS IS, WITH EACH DAY THAT PASSES, THAT'S ONE MORE DAY OF MISERY BEHIND YOU. Any form of exercise, even if it is the last thing on your mind, is beneficial(even tiny walks). Just remember you didn't get here overnight, so unfortunately it will take some more time. BUT YOU ARE DOING IT.
I can tell you it gets better; will be 4 months off on Thursday, and I SWEAR I FEEL GREAT. Of course there are some 'flat' spots, but who doesn't have them.

[Bodymechanic]

I saw your post about needing to take 8mg sublingual buprenorphine in order to get 1.5mg in your system.  It seems there is a huge information void concerning this medication. I was told that the sublingual buprenorphine was about 1/2 as strong as the injectable. A two fold error could be a disaster in terms of the degree of addiction.  Please try to find out the correct dosing information.  If you get a reliable answer please post it here. I will do the same.

In answer to my own question, yes, pure liquid sublingual buprenorphine can be injected. In this case injecting it is twice as strong as taking it sublingual since it bypasses the liver. I am going to start injecting it since it is so damn expensive.

[Jennibean]

I have read all too often lately that peoples Doctors don't seem to know much about tapering etc. I have said the same of my own Dr. I really think that Dr's need to go get some continuing education about addictive medications!! And seriously fast before millions of other people are in our shoes! These Dr's prescribe the stuff like candy all to often but can't help when it comes to getting off correctly. I have been pretty honest with my Dr about this addiction in the past when I was feeling really strong. I even left a message telling them not to give me anymore and that if I called and asked soon it was because I was in withdrawal and wanted it not because I needed it. Well I did end up calling and they gave it to me anyway. I have half a mind to type out a letter about this problem and send it to as many Dr's in my area as I can. Let them know that they better get on the ball because really alot of us addicted to pain meds and benzo's got addicted quite innocently to begin with. That means somewhere along the line a Dr gave us a few too many for too long. Then of course we learn to manipulate and that we cannot blame on them but intially I was innocent and I am sure alot of you were too. I may even contact the addictionologists that I know and have them contribute to my letter. I wonder if they need some type of teaching credential to just invite a bunch of Dr's to a hotel conference room and tell them what problems they are causing in poepels lives. When ever I have a huge problem in my life I usually try and find the purpose behind it. Maybe this is my purpose to get these Dr's educated. Before I knew my purpose was going to be to help other Mother's who didn't have child care to get to meetings or treatment etc. I still want to do that as well. I have to get clean and stay clean myself first though. I think there are alot of Mommies stuck out there in this addiction because they first of all are embarrassed to ruin their June Cleaver image by admitting it and second they don't have enough help with kids to get treatment. Anyway I am rambling again just don't like hearing everyday that Dr's don't seem to know much beyond writing the actual prescription!
Jennifer

[Rex1]

It's too late, millions are already addicted...

The big drug companies already know this, I can assure you, but if they say anything publicly, they upset the apple cart and there goes the profits.

My unsolicted advice to you Jennifer - you are going to need every single ounce of energy to get off the Vikes. Plan on two or three months of devotion to this activity.

When you go through it, remember well what it felt like so you can help others when you have passed through it yourself. But focus on you and the task at hand. Your idea sounds like a good one to pursue!

Be relentless....

Rex

p.s. I think I had a thing for Florence Henderson, and she beats June CLeaver anyday........

[vikequeen]

I just want to thank Rex, he is a great guy, awise man and very insightful and informative I look forward to your posts I set my quit date for Jan1 I just need to get over that Xmas hump But I know when its time you will be there. I envy your faith in God I wish I had it. Love Baddgirl

[Rex1]

God can do anything, even increase your faith.

Just ask. Don't expect an instantaneous response, but He will answer you.

Without God, I (just myself now) wonder why I would be doing any of this?

Glad to hear about your Jan 1 date - keep us all posted, and thanks for the thanks!

Rex

[lisabet]

Hi Jen - good post!  Sounds like you're fighting the good fight (although in my family, we're more like "Roseanne" than
"June Cleaver")...smile.  FYI - I'm gonna take a hot bath and take a librium and go to bed...I've tapered today from 6 to 5 vics - you wouldn't think it would make that much of a difference...but I'm suffering, in a big way.  But- I'm trying-trying-trying....that's all any of us can do.  Love/Peace, Lisabet   xoxoxo

[saveyourself]

oxic,
Thanks for the response.  My daily regime of drug use was 300 mgs of oxys (20 mgs) and 10 to 12 percs, plus zanaflex at night. All this to feel normal for the last year.
I am just surprised at how long and how strong the withdrawls are.  In the past, 5 or 6 days and I would be in pretty good shape.  However, this the first time I got into oxycotin and used percs together. I know the difference from say lora tabs withdrawls. I am an addict who wants instant gratification with no pain.  Just an illusion.

Okay, you suggest to get more clonidine, how long should I stay on it and how much a day to give some relief.  I have read on this board after awhile it works against you.  Hot baths for bone and muscle aches, start some light workouts, walks, ect.  I am also attending NA meetings to at least get out of the house and keep it real that I am a drug addict. I am off work for the next two weeks, so I will take it a day at a time.

One question for you, when was the first day after you got clean, you woke up feeling good, went through your day without side effects of withdrawls, came home, relaxed and realized the withdrawl symptoms are finally gone? How many weeks, months?

I can't thank you and others on this board enough for your help.
Greg

[Rex1]

>>when was the first day after you got clean, you woke up feeling good, went through your day without side effects of withdrawls, came home, relaxed and realized the withdrawl symptoms are finally gone? How many weeks, months?

[Rex1]

>>when was the first day after you got clean, you woke up feeling good, went through your day without side effects of withdrawls, came home, relaxed and realized the withdrawl symptoms are finally gone? How many weeks, months?


Hasn't happened yet, and I am on three weeks of cold turkey as of today. But I have real back pain, so I am not sure I will ever feel right again.

It doesn't matter though. As Bodymechanic will tell you, the pain pills ARE NOT A SOLUTION and in the end work against you, not for you.

There are people that are in excrutiating pain - Vicodin, Percs, etc are for them. But for addicts with some minor pain, these pills are the wrong thing at the wrong time.

I hope I start feeling better physically soon. if I don't, I'll just have to work harder at my excercises and other stuff. I'm not going back on the Norcos though...

Good luck in your fight. If you are off for two weeks, don't sit around feeling sorry for yourself, get out and get busy of possible.

You want some diversions - try this..

Start the Band of Brothers dvd series(6 dvd set) from Hollywood or Blockbuster videos. Let's see, the 101st airborne division, in the battle of the bulge, spent Christmas in the Ardenes forest with no proper winter clothing on, getting shelled by the Germans, and starving to death, many losing legs or arms for this country, in sub zero weather.

Kinda puts a perspective on our little designer drug gig, huh. I know, I know it doesn't make the pain go away, but it does add perspective. . We can do it if we set out to be tough as nails, and relentless. We also know that many, many people, some on this very forum have it a lot harder than us.

After all, Finished? is addicted to rap music. Now that's pain ;-0.

As you go through the next two weeks, look at Jan 1 as your break free date, and think how great the new year will really be when you are off of this ****. Use it as a motivator!!!

I will be here to help if you need it. Just let me know whether you want me to crack a whip, or spout motivational stories a la 20/20. (I can do either ;-) )

God's Grace to you - hang in there and be tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rex

[oxic]

We definately are an impatient lot, us addicts.....and you are right about the instant gratification thing.
Firstly, you have more severe and lasting w/d's this time due to the introduction of the 'contin'. Of course this is exasserbated by this not being your first time withdrawaling(correct me if i'm wrong). That is one of the many indelible expressions for me, that relapse= worse w/d next time. Keeps me focussed. One of the veterans, I believe AlexandraR, explained technically why this is; all i know is i don't want to do it again.
Now as far as the clonidine, i'm not well versed enough to say how long is long enough(or specific doses---can you search the archives for clonidine?). Maybe Thomas02 , could shed some light here. Regardless, there will be a toughing it out component. My mother in law, who recently detoxed from xanax/vicoden/coke, stayed on clonidine for seven days, and sent home with none.....and doing okay now.
To answer your last question about when i felt i had come out the other side, it was right around the two week mark. Now i added to that 13 days of tapering, where i really thought i was dying; so again right around Rexs' time, 3 weeks, i knew i was going to be okay!!!
This applies to the physical part. Of course the mind games can really try to **** with you , and at times you can feel like you lost your best-worst friend. DON'T LET IT GET TO YOU.
I wish we could switch bodies, so you would be totally reassured that you will feel this good too.(it would only be for a millisecond, i'm not a masochist)
NOW REX, you inspirational son of a gun; you are soooooooo close my friend. And believe me i know about back pain(had 2 L5-S1 laminectomy/disectomies). I truly believe SOME of your back pain is residual withdrawals. I kept a very detailed journal of my exit from a 4 year perc run, and if i were to show it to you for an analogue, you'd be saying holy **** I'm right there.
STAY STRONG BROTHERS!!!
percs no more

[nomoreoxy]

Hi, I'm new to this forum.  I just quit oxycontin cold turkey (3 days ago) after snorting up to 80mg/day.  I know that it's not that much, but I'm still going thru my own version of hell.  What I hate most is the insomnia and the anxiety/social phobia (I'm a bartender for crying out loud), so I guess I'll drink myself to sleep tonite.  Is there anything to do to combat these horrible (mental and physical) symptoms?  The docs that I have access to here in Hawaii are unsympathetic and pretty much told me to "ride it out".  It's not quite that simple when you have to go to work and deal with people.  They wont prescribe clonidine or any type of sleep aid.  Are there any other options.  Please help me thru this.

[saveyourself]

Hey Guys,

It's 2:00 am and I just got the first four solid hours of sleep in 10 days.  Even with the valium I would sleep an hour at the most.  I think that lack of sleep really add to the anxiety and power of the withdrawl.  For now, no leg, back or other misc ailment pain I have been whining about. So, I will just be grateful for these moments.

rex1 and oxic, I can't thank you enough for your personal reponses, they have been such a huge help. To those who have never had to suffer thruogh opiate withdrawls do not have a clue as to the mental, physical pain and insanity one goes through.  An hour seems like days when you start detox. Then of course, you do have one or two weeks of hell. It is in that time period that many relapse, not because their weak, it because withdrawls wear you down to the point it is easy to rationalize a trip to the dr., fill the script, promise to use as prescribed and quit in a month.  Then the cycle repeats it self.

I will pick Band of Brothers tomorrow, veg out and force myself to take the dogs for a walk, maybe do a light work out with stretching.  It is so easy to get into the poor me pity party.  Hell,I have a decent gym in my garage and haven't workrd out since I started using.  This getting old sucks, but it is time for me to be honest with myself and no longer use legitamite injuries as an excusr to use.
God Bless,

[FINISHED?]

I'm addicted to RAP MUSIC? If this were true, I WOULD BE IN PAIN. That's funny though...I actually like it O.K. but I wouldn't call it an ADDICTION...Oh no...AM I IN DENIAL? Hi...my name is FINISHED? & I'm a RAPAHOLIC.

[FINISHED?]

Rex...a quick note to you. I WENT TO CHURCH THIS SUNDAY!!! Thanks for the kick in the pants to get me back on track with THE ALMIGHTY. It felt GREAT!!! It's been WAY TOO LONG since I felt the joy of faith surfacing in my soul. I know you did not directly say,"FINISHED...Get yourself in church" but YOUR unfading faith gave me curiosity as to what I had given up on SO MANY YEARS AGO. It gave me a better feeling than any drug has & I am going to join the "teen group leadership program" to help young people stay on track...THANKS REX!!!

[percsnomas]

Hey, Welcome!!
Firstly, just for calibration purposes, up to 80 mg/day oxycontin snorted isn't that "light" either.....still equivalent to 16 percs/day, and more intense since taken in thru your nasal passage.
But that doesn't matter now, cause as you read this, you should be entering your 4th day off.....GREAT JOB!!!
Since clonidine isn't an option, have you purchased the ingredients of the Thomas recipe??
You would be amazed how effective this can be.....helping with the brain-fog and severe lethargy you are experiencing.
It is posted throughout this forum(if i recall i saw it under the topic back pain remedies, under C28 by Thomas himself).
Keep us posted, because if you haven't figured it out yet we are here for you.
Percs No More

[percsnomas]

Yes, it's posted two questions below @ Comment28!!!

The L-Tyrosine Vit. B-6 combo, I swear by!!!

ps. 3mg of Melatonin(from your health food store) could be a Godsend, for the sleep(or lack of).

[saveyourself]

I read your post.  Don't minimize an 80 mgs oxy habit.  Oxy is so concentrated, I believe the amount your doing equals about thirty or forty perc 10 mgs.  I am into my 11th day opiate free.
I used the thomas recipe, you will have to search for it, but it was a huge help with my withdrawls.  

Some people might reccomend tapering off. I have tried that and NEVER succeeded, yet some do. It would help if you could take a week off of work because of a serious bout of flu.  Trust me you will be telling the truth.  Pick up the ingredints of the thomas recipe, you will have to talk to your doctor.  I told mine I needed to detox and I had him prescribe 5mgs valium, .1 mgs clonidine and levision for cramps, qty. 30 each, the rest of the recipe my wife picked up at the health food store.  

By the way, you live in one of the most serene places on earth.  I and my family have gone over there 7 times in the last 10 years.  I work with major hotels and have really got know the beauty of the people and land.  As soon as I get off the plane the stress peels right off me.  Maui is my favorite island. I feel at home every time I am there.

I will stop the ramble, you can do this and if you don't it will only get worse.  Keep in touch with the people on this board. They have been so much help to me. I also attend NA to keep me in check.
Peace

[FINISHED?]

I don't have any experience with oxy withdrawls myself but I believe that they are very similar to the hydro's. If this is the case, you are almost through the worst part. It SUCKS that these doctors are either too oblivious or uncaring enough not to offer TRUE HELP. I was on a LARGE amount of vicodin es & I too went cold turkey. It's no fun to say the least but the majority of the symptoms went away after a week or two at most. I was fortunate enough not to suffer too badly from the depression that generally follows detox but had a little nonetheless. That too only lasted a couple of weeks. I absolutely REFUSED to let these pills get the better part of my life any longer than they already had. I think that you're fortunate in your job in that you are basically FORCED to interact with other people on a social level. I found that this was my best weapon against the depression. Interaction, walking, running & staying as busy as possible is what got me through. I think that the majority of the members here will agree that you need to do whatever it takes to surround yourself with as much activity as possible to mantain your sobriety...though it's hard to do so at the beginning. Hang in there...you should start feeling better REAL SOON if you haven't already.

[percsnomas]

Morning Brother, it's Oxic here(that is my at home cmpt name).
I like your approach for today.
Just remember, you are NOT doing this alone.

ps I worked out 5days/week at our local Golds Gym, until my perc-run sucked the life out of me. I've got my routine right back on track, and haven't missed a workout since I got off the percs.

[Rex1]

Well, now I know you are on the right road.

Church really puts things in perspective, huh?

If you beleive as I do, one day we will free of these bodies we have. Won't that be the day of days?

As for rap, I refuse to listen to music by non-musicians. What's next, are they gonna get us toegther and play some CDs.

Probably just a reflection of our age differences. I cut my teeth during some of rock's most skilled musical years - groupos that had so many talented muscicians that each could start a group in their own right, and many did.

3 faves:

Van Halen
Styx
Aerosmith - early stuff only

Groups I like today:
mmm......




Rex

[percsnomas]

....just for clarification, 80mgs of oxycontin is the equivalent of 16 percocets(5mg. Oxycodone). The oxycodone is time released however, unless of course you crush or chew or snort, in which case it becomes almost instantaneous.

[FINISHED?]

Believe it or not...I feel the same way you do as far as rappers not being musicians. I just grew up in an area & in a time that rap was the most previlant music around. I myself enjoy playing my own instruments...though I'm TERRIBLE. I honestly don't even know what gave you the idea that I was a rap fan. I just enjoy some of the noise they make. I honestly only own 4 rap CDs...that's probably too many though.

My favorite bands/ musicians of all time:
Led Zepplin
Metallica
Bob Marley
Areosmith (new & old)
And my ALL TIME, UNDISPUTED FAVORITE MUSICIAN...
Tom Petty (Stop laughing! You like Styx...)

God is truly COOL...I felt like I did when I was a kid...got a little choked up & felt what many believers would call the Holy Spirit pulsing through my soul. Thanks again Rex. I have seen the light...no joke intended.

[teeitup]

Instant gratification, great statement!

I deal with 2 types of pain. What I call my "Peak and Valley" pain from sports, motocross etc. and my " Drive me up the wall pain" from a medical condition known as cavernous hemangioma (internal varicous veins). These veins are wrapped around several organs, they swell cause spasms and somtimes rupture.

This pain is not as intense as the Peak and Valley pain but it never changes. I spent alot of time at M.D.Anderson Cancer Clinic in Houston, we are not in pain these people are in pain.

I started out taking the hydro for the right reason but then was taking it for the instant gratification of the peak and valley pain. All of us with chronic pain have to learn to deal with the fact we will never be pain free. Take the drug for relief not for pleasure. My biggest opponent is boredom and feeling sorry for my self when I hurt. It's so easy to reach for the extra hydro.

We all know night time is a killer and the pain always seems worse. With the help of this forum all of ya'll have helped me  make a commitment to use the hydro as it was intended.

Be Strong!
Teeitup

Rex1, Finished

Check out a blues guitarist from Louisiana named Tab Benoit (A Coonass Stevie Ray Vaughn)

[Rex1]

I am just yanking your chain on the rap, and it worked!!!

Tom Petty is awesome - fav song = running down a dream!

I like Megadeth much more than Metallica, but much of this music goes against my Christian roots.

One of the greatest bands not widely publicized is Kansas. They are real musicians!!! If everyone can just get past Carry On wayward Son, and look at their earlier stuff like Masque, or B side of Leftoverture - wow!

Anyway, the best concert I ever saw was drum roll......

Def Leppard at the Hollywood Sportatorium in Miami (hollywood, fl) my ears are still ringing.

AND.... did you know that Lonesome Dave died in 2000 from cancer?

This is your homework assignment for today:

Who was Lonesome Dave?
(hint: the quintessential Fender rythm guy)

Feeling better this am.

God bless everyone here for the help they have given me. May be back tonight with my usual whine.....

Rex

[FINISHED?]

G...still haven't heard from you. I hope you're doing O.K. & haven't fallen off track...but even if you have, there's no shame in it. We ALL have fallen off track at one time or another. I hope you're just busy & that's why we havn't heard from you. Let us know you're alright.

FINISHED!

[FINISHED?]

FOGHAT!!! Lonesome Dave Peverett...right? Good stuff! Fool for the City...I Just Wanna Make Love to You...Slow Ride. Classic rock at it's BEST!

LONESOME DAVE QUOTE; "IF YOU DON'T SWEAT, IT AINT ROCK & ROLL..."

[MethMan]

Dude... I hate to barge in on your conversation and all, but I've got a bad feelin' about something.

To do something for others is a gift to ourselves really.  But in all honesty, with the way the internet is, I've seen a few comments from you that are a bit of a red flag to be honest.

You've said on numerous occassions that you're going to hook up a couple young guys with passes to the XGames.  That's cool.

Then, you just posted that you went to Church (which is also cool) first time in a long while and ended up signing up to help the "teens group".

Whats up with that?  Am I just jealous like someone else was reported to be?  Nope.  I'm a dinosaur.  When I watch an XGames event, I don't check the air ballet out, just worried about how much THAT fall hurt and hope the dude is OK.

Tell me how wrong I am.

Peace,
Mike

[FINISHED?]

I wont tell you how wrong you are because I completely understand what you're saying Meth. The X-GAMES deal is 100% legit. My going to church is 100% legit. The youth group is something I WOULD like to do but have not as of yet. I think it would be too soon as my faith cannot be completely restored from one Sunday after a lot of years of ignoring God. I have received a GREAT deal of inspiration from this site & it's members & I'm trying really hard to get right with myself, my freinds, my family & God. I assure you that I would not do this at the expense of you people seeing as it is, afterall, you people that have led me to try so hard. I WILL admit that the info on Lonesome Dave was obtained from the net but that was after the name rang such a bell in my head, I wanted to figure out who it was. Although I knew of Foghat, it was a "homework assignment..." I wanted to get an A. I understand the scepticism but it's getting a little draining for me. If I've offended people here with my offers, my comments or my questions then I'll cease & disist & mearly observe in scilence. Whether or not people believe me or my intentions, I AM SINCERE. I haven't a need in the world to lie about anything. If I WERE to lie, it'd be about being an addict in the first place. I have never tried to be seen as better than anyone else here but I continue to be questioned in my intentions & or sincerity. It seems that "judging" others is a HUGE part of so many's recovery here...Though it doesn't seem like a healthy part .

[LizzyM]

I have to agree with MethMike..AND the person who was accused of being jealous and you all ripped her apart.
If you are the real deal..then tell us your real name..

There's no harm in asking you to at least tell us who you are...your real name.  

There is too mcuh **** that goes on in the internet..Pedophiles, freaks,..etc..

That is the only reason there are some people here concerned for these young boys that you are so interested in.  I don't see you interested in helping any of us women..I live in AZ..I have a problem with Addiction also..You NEVER offered to help me??  Am I jealous??  NO WAY..just curious.
Not meaning to offend you or the boys here..I'm just curious and don't want to see the boys get hurt or let down.  So, please don't lash out at me like you all did to that poor girl..

Again, this is just my curious opinion..I am not trying to offend or upset anyone here.


Hey MethMike...my precious buddy..how's it going??  GOSH I miss talking to you!!
Lizzy

[LizzyM]

I have to agree with MethMike..AND the person who was accused of being jealous and you all ripped her apart.
If you are the real deal..then tell us your real name..

There's no harm in asking you to at least tell us who you are...your real name.  

There is too much **** that goes on in the internet..Pedophiles, freaks,..etc..

That is the only reason there are some people here concerned for these young boys that you are so interested in.  I don't see you interested in helping any of us women..I live in AZ..I have a problem with Addiction also..You NEVER offered to help me??  Am I jealous??  NO WAY..just curious.
Not meaning to offend you or the boys here..I'm just curious and don't want to see the boys get hurt or let down.  So, please don't lash out at me like you all did to that poor girl..

Again, this is just my curious opinion..I am not trying to offend or upset anyone here.


Hey MethMike...my precious buddy..how's it going??  GOSH I miss talking to you!!
Lizzy

[saveyourself]

Good Morning all,

Finally got 6 hrs of sleep, 4 in a row, up for 2 hrs, then another 2 hrs in a row.  I woke up at 5:30 thinking jeez, I don't even have 2 weeks yet, The commitee in my head got up before me, suggesting go to the doc, he knows how you feel, yeah right, get valium, ect, we all know the story.

So, I turned on the radio since (I was alone, my wife hasn't slept with me since I started detox, she's cool and it is because a man going thru withdrawls is not the easiest person to sleep with.)  There is a point to this post, A Neil Young song came on some of you might have heard, it was the needle and the damage done.  I have lost more friends than I would like to admit because of drugs, legal and illeagal. It dawned on me how even tho I have legitamate injuries that won't go away, I have not given my body and god given endorphines a chance to work and my exercise routine for the last year has been the remote control and couch potato.  So istead of laying in bed, I got up took my recipe vitamins, grab my walkman, put the leashes on the dogs, german shepard and a cocker spaniel, got the coat and gloves and walked for 30 minutes, the dogs loved it, I feel better. I am out of shape. This I can choose to change

There is life after drugs, a much better life that many of us have forgotten because we have used for so long.  I know it's not much but I actually got off my ass and took a brisk walk. For this addict, it is a start,  Oh yeah, no need to see the doc today. I am going to an NA meeting this morning and a mens meeting at church tonite. If your new, make some friends on this board. The two I listed I owe big time and am in debt to everyone who shares here. God bless you all.
Peace and Strength For Today

[reborn]

your close i think what your daily intake? right now
can u take time off work school etc.
if so do that and kick this thing in the ass
good luck brother or sister

[FINISHED?]

I stand to lose A LOT in disclosing my real name. Listen, you people all stick together & judge judge judge. Don't judge me! I have done nothing wrong in my intentions. Pedaphiliacs? PLEASE. I am a professional athlete with a little bit of money and a kind enough heart to offer some incentive. You people are so hypocritical in everything you say here. "We are ALL DRUG ADDICTS...but don't judge me for that." Yet that's all I see here from a large number of members. JUDGE JUDGE JUDGE. Jealousy has never left my keyboard so I don't even know where that's coming from. I could care less what you have as opposed to what I have & vice versa. You people sit here & continue to JUDGE JUDGE JUDGE & you will all be the ones being JUDGED JUDGED JUDGED in the END. Take your miseries out on somebody more deserving...like yourselves!!!!!!!!!

[FINISHED?]

Also...how can you possibly acuse me of being a child molester & then say no offense meant in the same paragraph?

[percsnomas]

You owe me nothing, as YOU ARE THE ONE DOING IT!!!
If my experiences offer some insight/comfort great......but isn't it simply a persons' affinity for "History Versus Mystery"
The fear of the unknown can be soooooo incapacitating.
Keep up the fight my friend!!!!
Keep us posted please.

[MethMan]

Wow! Dude, Look again. I didn't "Judge, Judge, Judge" you.  All I did (and Lizzy too) was simply voice a concern.  Do you meet all adversity to your thoughts and feelings in the same defensive manner?  Or are you hiding something?  Just asking.

If it helps, pound away on me. I just couldn't sit back and watch something that concerned me without saying something. That's all.  Problem is... I'll do it again if I think something smells bad.

Afterall, like you and everyone else here, I have my own opinions and ideas.  Do I allow others to voice theirs and I can not?

I am sure you are fully aware that your actions speak volumes over meer words, mine included. If your desire to help others is genuine, you are doing yourself a service by helping others.  But if your intentions are placed in other areas, time will also tell that.  I hope for the sake of these kids and their dreams, you are sincere.  To add more misery on those that have enough is something I don't want to live with.  How bout you?

Lizzy... I am RIGHT AS THE RAIN BABY!  How you doin!

Peace,
Mike

[teeitup]

Man what a bummer, this is just a test on your strength, you do not have to explain yourself to anyone! You know in your heart what your intentions are. If someone misinterpretes that, then thats their problem. As I've said before, if you aren't the real deal you'll be the one to suffer. Please keep posting and stay strong!

I believe in you!
Teeitup!

[FINISHED?]

Tee...THANKS!!! It's definitely hard to keep my head up lately but as long as 1 person believes in me & my intentions, I WILL!!!!

[MrsRat]

Finished, No one called you a *********.  It was merely pointed out to you that someone who goes to a forum, posts only to the males, while being male himself, then offers young boys and men valuable things, brings up red flags.

The red flags went up for me too after your first few posts to G.  I also am in Arizona.  I have been online for 9 years.  I have helped train FBI agents before they went into chat networks and posed as young boys or girls to attract the pedophiles and other assorted wierdos out there. I have turned in a few myself and they are now rotting in a prison cell.

While you may not have meant it, your posts did come across to those who have been online for a long time, as almost a troll for only males.  It was pointed out to you on this thread, so you are aware of it and now can change your style, if you are not what you seemed to come across as to quite a few in here.

Please read 1 Cor. 2:15 "He who is spiritual appraises all things ..." NSAB Spiritual men can judge, not only God. As a life long Christian I don't appreciate speaking for God.

[FINISHED?]

Listen Bro...The "judging" part was directed more towards lizzy. She basically accused me of being a child molester & I gotta tell ya...that HURT!!! I am trying SO HARD to recover & make up for the person I was & I come here just to get kicked in the crotch by you people. Calling me a liar is not "voicing a concern..." you're looking for some sort of self justification for some reason that has NOTHING to do with me. No...I'm not hiding a thing & YES I do react to being called a lieing pedaphile with a little bit of anger & defense. You people amaze me. I just wanna help & I wanna be helped. I don't want to keep getting into these stupid assinine debates over who I am or what I have to offer. My Mom always said, "Take things for what they are...if you don't know what they are...take them for what they look like until you know what they really are." Good advice for many here...

[FINISHED?]

I could be wrong but isn't Mariposa female? That is the only person I corrisponded with when I first started coming here. Look...I can see the validity of the concerns but I don't hear any female members being called a lesbian if they choose to help a female. I assure you...I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERNS but the way in which you choose to address them should include a little tact & maturity.

[LizzyM]

UMMMM..you should go back and read my post again.  I DID NOT call YOU a *********.  I simply stated that the only reason some of us are concerned is because of all the **** that goes on in the internet world..I did not state that it is you who is a freak or a *********..so please stop being on the defensive.  Yes, this is an Addiction forum.  Therefore, we are ALLOWED to ask questions and post them if we want to.  This forum has adversity, there for, there will always be dissagreements..no need to get all bent out of shape and defensive.
You getting all bent out of shape and on the defensive just makes us more concerned.
I simply asked you a qwestion.  I did not accuse or call you names.  I have been on this forum a long time, and I have never qwestioned anyones intentions. And, you seemed way too interested in the boys frined also. You DID put up a red flag.  Again, my qwestion is this-- why have you not offered to help any WOMEN here and just the young boys??  I'm young..

Teeitup--that's nice that you go and defend Finished..but, really, my intentions as MrsRat and MethMan is honestly just to protect these young boys from being hurt and let down.  They are at a fragile stage right now.  We have been at this forum for a long time and have never seen a red flag like this..so our intentions are purely innocent and honest.

MethMan...dude!!  I miss ya..where've you been buddy?  Wanna go shopping today at the mall??  I need some new shoes, a purse to match and some clinique make-up...I know how much to love to shop with me and the P's  ..LOL

[LizzyM]

There you go getting on the defensive.  Methman ALSO told you that I WAS NOT calling you a *********..dude, chill out. Go read my post again, slowly.  Your the one making this a debate.  Stop putting words in my mouth.  I just simply asked you one qwestion.  You finally answered it about the girls..so let's not continue this.
If you are truely who you are, well that's great that you want to help others.  That is truely great that you have the heart and money and true intentions to help others who are in need right now.
Don't jump down my throat just because I ASKED a qwestion..you put MORE red flags up when you get on the defensive like you are.

Again, I am NOT calling you anything.
We are allowed to post our opinions here.  So, don't let our concerns get you down.

[LizzyM]

Haven't you noticed??
It's ALWAYS my fault!!!

lol

[FINISHED?]

I absolutely refuse to entertain this notion any further. I appreciate the fact that people like you are out there to protect the young people from "weirdos & freaks." I can understand to a very small degree your concern with me & my intentions. It didn't even dawn on me that offering 2 teenagers a trip to the X-GAMES could be misconstrued as "trolling for boys" at the time of the offer but as I type it, I can see your point. Again, accusations that are supported only by suspicion are extremely unfair, unjust & tactless. So please...before burning someone at the stake...get a little something behind your case.

By the way...who would come to a drug addiction forum to pick up on young men?

[FINISHED?]

O.K...I want to set the record straight...if it matters to you.
Of course I'm defensive. You don't have to come right out & say something to accuse somebody of something. I appreciate the fact that you are not accusing me. Maybe clarification could've have been made a long time ago. I can see all of your points regarding "red flags" & I will do my best to be more careful in my offers & intentions. I WILL NOT reveal my true name until I AM READY. I still make a living at my sport & I could potentially stand to lose a lot, so until I'm ready...I am FINSHED. Please accept my apologies for anything said but I still feel they were justifiable at the time.

[MethMan]

Well.... now that you asked...
If I were a ********* and wanted an easy target, an addicted boy would be a perfect target.  I'd prefer to get off this sickening subject matter too.

Listen, I appologize if I inferred any hidden meaning in my concern.  YOU know what your intent is and if it is good, your actions should not be geared toward showing others you were right, but knowing you did a good thing for someone and were generous enough to make someone's life better.  What an amazing power that is.  If that is your intention, then I am amazed by your generosity to others.

Lizzy, I'd go shopping with anyone as sweet as you are!

All the best folks,
Mike

[teeitup]

I've been coming to this site for 11 days and it has made it tremendous difference in my life, instead of reaching for an extra pill I log on!

My concern is for the new addicts that log on everyday, if they see this kind of stuff they might not come back. Post your feelings and concerns but please do it in a way that if you read this from the outside looking in you would not be turned away.

The last thing someone who needs help from this addiction needs is to see people going at each other. You've all offered such great advice don't ruin it with this ****!

If someone post something you don't like think real hard before you comment.

Thanks to all of you, it all helps the good and the bad.
Help each other!

teeitup!

[LizzyM]

Awww..thanks Methman.  But, no one is as sweet and caring as you!

Finished...your apology is accepted..but you going off was not justifiable at the time.
Again, I also apologize if you read my post in the wrong manner.  I did not call you any names nor accuse you.  I asked a simple qwestion.
Now that you have stated your intentions, well, that's all I wanted to know.
So, please don't get all ralled up concerning my posts.  That was not my intention.

Sorry for offending you in any way.

Lizzy

[LizzyM]

See...no one is going off on eachother here.  Just some qwestions was asked and things were taken absolutely the wrong way.

I"m glad you found this forum.  If not for this forum, I would still be all drugged up and in a hole.  So, I really am glad you come here.
There are allot of old timers here who helped me get through the hardest time of my life.  I hope we can all do the same for you and others.  I am clean off the VIc's now..thank goodness..but I wouldn't be if I never found this forum.

Peace to you!  If you ever need to talk..post me..I check on here once a day if I have the time.

Lizzy

[FINISHED?]

Again...I apologize for causing concern & I actually think it's GREAT that you people care enough about the members of this board, young & old, to openly voice them. I'm sorry for the harsh defensive I took & I guess it's time I realize that people are going to be scepticle because of what I have offered. I now see your points & I'll take them VERY seriously. From here on out, I'll just offer up advice when I can. It REALLY hit home with G's buddy wanting to start a professional sports career & being hooked on drugs. I am very disappointed with myself in almost losing mine & I guess I overcompisated a bit in trying to make sure he gets a fair shot in the industry. I still plan on following through though...if that's acceptable. I'd hate to disappoint them.

Lizzym,
Like I said before, I am in AZ at least once a month for the most part & I'd be more than willing to meet you & maybe offer some sort of help if needed or wanted. You'll see that I'm a pretty nice guy with a wonderful fiance who's just trying to get right with things.

Thanks to all of you for showing me, through patience, how I may have come across to some.
FINISHED!

[Rex1]

So I need to take the rap for starting a discussion on Rock on the addiction forum, sorry I will get back to the task at hand.

First let me say to Finished?, I did not, do not, and will not subscribe to anything that was said about you in this thread.

I saw your offer to G as a honest attempt to help a youngster out, and this also jives with joining the youth group leadership thing.  I know you are trying to recover and this alone is a monumental task.

I owe my life to you, and to Methman, and to Lizzym and the others here, but I not going to start bashing people individually here.

I am not naive, I have been a big city boy all of my life. Miami, Atlanta, San Diego - you would agree I have seen it all in these three cities, no? I did not see or read anything that any of you said into Finished - just my opinion.

Everyone who reads this: Please listen to me for one second. Does no one see what is happening here but me? We are getting a name for ourself, we are getting new members everyday! We are now in a position of "example-setting". We may be deluged with people as this epidemic hits full force. I hoep we can attract people who need help, not drive them away. (Agree though with Bodymechanic - some chaos will exist in a forum of addicts)

This business about Mariposa, the "thing that wouldn't die", and the other all-negative stuff - how is any of this helping others? (A common misconception of Christianity is that everyone is supposed to run off and be a pastor - start a Church somewhere. While admirable, the single most common commission is to help others, especialy those less fortunate than us. This describes every single person coming here for help that is below us one or more rungs on the ladder.)

This IMHO, should be our single focus here, with the off-topic stuff kept to a minimum. I do not run this forum, nor am I in charge, it is just a request. In fact, I am nothing here...and will try and stay that way. But I broke this rule, so help me keep it in mind OK?

I will say this - unless someone has some concrete evidence on someone, it is just conjecture on their part. The Bible also says "be careful how you measure, because you will be subject to that same measure".

As far as the accusations, get real guys. The tongue is often compared to the rudder of a ship. It is 1/1000 the size of the ship itself, but controls it directions completely. it can cause massive damage if not under control, and if broken, can render the entire ship useless. Food for thought..

Please do me a favor -please??? (If I have any favors coming to me, I call them in now).

Let it go, without a single response. there are so many people here who are hurting. Let's not jump on the pile!

Back to addicts, addictions, and pain, of which there is now an extra helping served....

Rex

[oldtimer]

hello people,
I'm sure that each and every one of you are nice people trying to fight the demons in you as I am..I have been lurking and reading and I'm sorry I just can't seem to get into this forum like I used to a long time ago, so, I'm asking, in a very nice way thomas where is the old gang from a year ago? is there another forum that they went to? maybe it's the age difference but there seems to be so much petty stuff going on here, I'd like to know if the old gang is somewhere new, where I would feel more comfortable and may be albe to relate better with,I'm to old and need to much help to keep trying to read through this stuff and find a place where I can get some help, maybe someone can direct me to another forum..thank you

[Chezz2]

Rex,

Relax buddy. You don't run this ship nor steer it. So don't try to "end" it when you choose.
Things will happen, people will post...
Chezz

[Rex1]

cool..no prob.

Rex

[percsnomas]

Sorry buddy, i never got to wish you a happy(as happy as possible) and safe trip!!!!
Is the back hangin in???
Did you ever get the back surgery video??

[Chezz2]

Whats up Percs?
Back is hangin' in. It hurt like a heck this morning. I will deal though. When I get to where I am going, I am just going to get the surgery and get this **** over with. After I go through the fun of finding new docs that are competent!!!
Plus, I switched meds to a LOT lower dose and concentration. So that is another reason for the extra pain. I would rather deal with it though then deal with the other issues associated, especially moving and getting a new doc.
Thanks for asking.
No I haven't gotten the video. I decided against it. I will wait until after the surgery to get it. I just can't imagine the extra stress it will bring when you see what your body is going to go through.
The storms that are coming through should make for a fun trip.
Hope is all is well with you. I have tried to keep up with your progress with MIL. Sounds like things are going pretty well. So I am happy to hear that.
BTW - I won't be far from Canada in a week or so!!! Actually about 3 hours from Winnepeg. I know that is a WAYSSSS from you, but still Canada.
Chezz

[LizzyM]

Yes..they are all at another forum.  At that forum you CAN say your comments without it getting taken the wrong way and people getting all defensive and lashing out at you for your comments.  It is a much more mature crowd where disagreements are understood and left at that...we don't go on and on debating an issue.  
If we see a red flag, we say it, and give our opinion..WE DO NOT get our comments taken the wrong way and we don't lash out at eachother.  A perfect example is my comments, Mrs Rat, and Methmans here today.  They totally got blown out of porportion just for us asking a qwestion.  We were no accusing, just simply telling why we were asking.  There are many of the old timers that refuse to ever step foot in here again..they are at the other forum.
I too will not be returning here.  I don't like my posts to be taken the wrong way, and I don't like being lashed out at just because I asked a simple qwestion.
I have too many problems with my addiction and therefore I do not have time for this BS.  I have NEVER had a member lash out at me for my concern or curiousity as I was today.  I don't get that at the other forum.  We all say what we feel, and if someone dosen't like it well, they just laugh at you!

I hope this helped answer your qwestion.

Hope you are feeling better.  Sorry for all the BS here today.

Lizzzy

[oldtimer]

thank you for responding to my post,now could you please tell me where and how do I get to that forum where all the oldtimers like me are? I really do need to talk to someone to help me through this hell I live in..again thanks
Dee

[teeitup]

Hate to see you go, keep up your recovery! Hope it works out for you!

[Chezz2]

And No Rex I wouldn't agree that your big city boy butt has seen it all living in Miami, San Diego, and Atlanta.
Glad to see you have lived. But I think it would be wise to not step on people's toes that haven't lived in a big city.
I am glad to see you have lived in some big cities. But I don't see that as something that provides someone with anymore knowledge than someone who has not.
I just returned from Tokyo after living there for 5 years. I also travelled extensively through the Far-east while I was there. To included Korea, Okinawa, Guam, Indonesia. As well as Europe via Germany, Italy, Austria, as well as other provinces.
I have also vacationed in the Bahamas, Hawaii, Florida, ect.
This all after I lived in Riyadh, Saudia Arabia after the war for 6 months.  

All of this and I am only 28. This in NO WAY makes me any more knowledgeable or "worldly" than anybody else on this forum.
My friends here know I am humbled by the things I have been able to experience these things in my short life.
I just don't think it is fair for you to say "listen to me" since you are a big city boy.
Take this for what it is......Someone who has put there time in here, helped out a lot of people, and just wants to help you understand that can't come in here for a month and expect to get "respect" via "listen to me".
You are helping a lot of people here, I have read some of your posts and posts back to you. So continue on.......Just keep in mind that there are others ways to get your point across without making people feel like they haven't lived since they haven't had the same opportunities in life...........
Chezz

[MethMan]

Think I've over-stayed my welcome here too.
I wish everyone the very best and hope that you find the help you need here.  If not, hang in there. Things seem to ebb and flow.

Remember, there are fine people here. Sometimes things get a little wierd, but they always fade.  Not because of harsh comments, anst or picking sides but because that's the way it is.  It's cyclical folks. Just like life.  Some prefer to pound heated issues straight while others simply wait the storm out for calmer waters.

When someone brings a topic up that gets heated, who's fault is it that everyone gets pissed?  The person bringing up the topic or our misconception of their intent?

Be happy, it's all good.
MethMike

[Rex1]

Wow! I had no idea I pull all that into (Please)listen to me. (You left out the "please" in my post btw...You also conveniently either left out, or did not read, this part of my post:

"I do not run this forum, nor am I in charge, it is just a request. In fact, I am nothing here...and will try and stay that way. But I broke this rule, so help me keep it in mind OK?"

I said that big city boy stuff simply to state that I think people may think I am naive for believing Finished? without question...

Sorry, and I'm starting to see what people mean about the history of this place. It's nice to have the "oldtimers" stick their head in here every once in a while and tell us how we're doing it all wrong ;-).

Apologies to all........

Rex

[teeitup]

What a passionate group, I'd like to be in buisness with all of ya'll. We'd either kill each other or make millions!

Please no one get out!

[lisabet]

Hey Chezz - glad to see you back posting again.  You'll be glad to hear I've tapered my hydros in half and have kept my head out of the Jack Daniel bottle since Thanksgiving.  My thanks to you when I first came to the forum and you answered my posts; if you remember, I was a mess (now I'm just half a mess!)...smile
Hope you're doing well.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[hyjack]

It's GREAT to see you again posting.

Please email me at ***@**** for directions.

[vikequeen]

To the person who used the word coon-ass I believe this is a racist statement, I am offended please watch what you say Thanks

[teeitup]

Sorry your offended, it's what Cajun's call themselves. Anyone from Louisiana or Southeast Texas is proud to be called that. It just a slang term used for the French heritage of Cajun's. I don't know what you thought it was! You ask anyone with the surname Boudreaux, Thibodeaux, Benoit etc. and they will tell you that's what they are!

[Rex1]

Hey T,

This was not an "A" day on the old forum, huh? :-)

I should have taken today off and saved everyone a lot of grief.

Glad your here...

Rex

[teeitup]

Man you ain't lying. **** I was loving life there for awhile. Oh well I guess it goes with the territory. Like I said before, Everyone just keep posting!

Teeitup!

[Rex1]

I sure hope everyone who has helped me looks past today and comes back tomorrow.

Like BodyMechanic pointed out, what do you really expect to get when you mix up a bunch of addicts, all in various stages of detox.

Like my dad used to say about me "you look spring loaded in the ticked off position".

Keep posting yourself...

Rex

[lisabet]

Rex - your posts are fine - you have nothing to regret. We all have differences of opinions sometime....fugetaboutit....smile.
I'm out of sorts myself today; it's a ***** how just one little pill can mess with your mind. I think cutting down from 6 to 5 hydros has been harder than anything. (...I'm such a wimpy-ass)... :)    Gonna take a hot-hot bath and go to bed.  Would love to have a shot or two of JD (but thankfully, there's none in the house).  Seems like if there's no liquor in the house, it really doesn't bother me, but if I'm running out of hydros - I feel panicked...what does that say about me?  I know -
D-R-U-G-G-I-E!!!!   :)  I'm trying Rex, I really am.  Peace/Love - Lisabet

[Rex1]

You know, you can take this tapering thing too slowly, I think. I have no idea what method you will respond to best, but there is something ot be said for the Cold turkey method in that it hits you alittle harder, but for a shorter period of time.

If you are miserable going from 6 to 5, well you are miserable, How much more miserable can you be. Try cutting your dose down to .5 tablets three times a day and see if that results in an equally painful experience.

I don't know - you are still in a lot of pain, right? I am just giving my experience here. There came a day when I knew it was time, and I just cut the cord, so,,,just an idea.

I wonder what others think about this - many here believe CT is the only way. If that is THE way for you, then your just putitng off the inevitable and suffeirng because of it.

Either way, you will be free soon.

The stuff here today just depressed me, but I am not worried about it and its already forgotten!!!

Keep on keepin on.

Rex

[Chezz2]

Lisabet,
Glad to see you are still out there. And that you have cut the JD out of your repertoire. I know that wasn't easy. Like you said, I am sure it is a lot easier now that you don't keep it around.
Once you decide it is time, I am sure you will be able to taper or CT and be free once and for all. Something will come to you, and it will happen I am sure. Once you "feel it" it will be a lot easier on you as well.
Good luck,
Chezz

P.S. Rex - Sorry to hear that you let something like this get you depressed. I just wanted to express a more subtle approach for getting your point across without demeaning others. I am pretty sure you didn't mean for it to come across like that. Although that is how I read it. So I thought I would add my insight.
There is something to be said for being humble, yet direct....

[hellbent]

This is not an "old timers" forum. It's an addiction forum and what makes it good, for me, is that new addicts come here. I think that someone described the other forum as a place of "honesty, trust, and joy". Well, that's great I guess. I am more interested in helping desperate addicts, as I was one not too long ago, and doing this helps keep ME clean. When I was detoxing, I was looking for information and support, nothing fancy. Today, I try to find "honesty, trust, and joy" in the real world, not in an internet message board (Back off, this is not intended as an "insult" to the other forum or it's members).

I found Medhelp from a search on Yahoo I think. You can find this forum by searching on the open internet, which helps bring in alot of new addicts who are struggling and looking for help. I don't know that the other forum referred to here has that kind of searchability and coverage, or the steady membership, which might explain why it's members are always popping back here - (Back off, this is not intended as an "insult" to the other forum or it's members). This is a "very sensitive issue" - hurm...

Anyway, you can probably get directed to the other forum if you give your e-mail address up here. They will read your message and get back to you I am sure.

[suzieneedshelp]

Lisbet gal i am SOO PROUD OF YOU! I am just reading  this thread.  Wow...whew!  this one casn go down in hx!

All i have to say about one issue is that an imposter is an imposter.  It comes out eventually.  I will say absolutely no more on this issue.  Unfortunately since the trouble earlier this fall, People beware of us all  on this forum!

There are many caring true honest addicts on here.  I cherish the concept of Medhelp and it has helped me tremendously!  
Anyone who is lurking and not yet commenting..plz realise that we all have been where u r and we all have a deep abiding caring heart for one another.  The struggle of addiction is such that each one of us is caught in a sometimes unwilling but an evitable priceless painful growth of our souls.  
Peace to you all!
Suzie

[hippy]

kindness kindness kindness,
addicts really hate to be contrdicted,
we also hate people who disagree with us'
hate might be a tad harsh for some.
one thing i have learned over the years
if you tell and addict the truth they will probly hate you
for it.
it is really healthy for us to beleive the best
in others and ourselves.
focus on the positive

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sonogirl]

hi, after reading many of the above comments, i have to say things hve gotten out of hand!!!  i came here for some advice, help, etc....
but what i saw was a lot of bickering and pointing of fingers!!!  can we get back to what matters?  helping each other through our own hell?
thanx,sono

[percsnomas]

3 things:
1.) Continued strength to you on your Oxy taper.
2.) This is an addiction forum, "****" happens. Remember the emotions are high(not to mention the stakes), and hyper-sensitivity can be prevalent.
3.) Let sleeping dogs lie.
    Skip by the non-constructive posts.
Take care,
Percs No More

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

I CANNOT TELL EVERYONE WHAT A GODSEND THIS SIGHT HAS BEEN--I TOO HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN HYDROCODONE HELL--WONDERING HOW THIS COULD HAVE EVER HAPPENED TO ME, AND ESPECIALLY HOW THESE PILLS HAVE HAD SUCH POWERFUL HOLD ON MY LIFE.  THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT I REALIZE I CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE, AND I AM NOW 72 HRS SINCE MY LAST PILL. I WAS TAKING 10-14 ZYDONE 10/400 PER DAY FOR APPROXIMATELY 2 YEARS. I COME TO THIS SIGHT EVERYDAY AND READ EVERYONE'S WORDS OF ENCOURAGMENT--SOMEHOW IT GIVES ME STRENGHT AND HOPE--I KNOW NOW I AM NOT ALONE--LOVE TO YOU ALL

[Thomas02]

Hello, Oldtimer. I must first say that I don't recognize your handle. Unfortunately, this site lacks the ability to police IP addresses, making it possible for the weak-minded to register under multiple handles and, basically, make a mockery out of what used to be a fine addiction site. The fact that I can't count on knowing who I'm talking to makes me extremely reluctant to help anyone. For example, I just learned that someone I spent a lot of time corresponding with in an effort to help "him" deal with Oxy addiction is a counterfeit. There are addiction forums, some private, some public, hosted by EZ board, such as the New Addictions Family Forum. I wish I could propose you for membership to one of the private ones, but I simply can't trust anything I read on this forum anymore. What a waste ...

Thomas

[teeitup]

I hope you won't leave, from the 12 or so days I've been coming here your words like many others have helped my life. There will be phonies in every part of life, those people will suffer more than us. I hope you'll understand that if you make a difference in only 1 sincere person you have done a great thing. Thanks for your help!

teeitup!

[Thomas02]

you're welcome. Best of luck in the future.

Thomas

[Rex1]

Email me anytime at ***@****:

1) I am a guy
2) I am not counterfeit
3) Every word I have spoken on this forum has been the truth and from the heart
4) You have helped me make a big turnaround

Glad you are here.

Do you want to share with us who the counterfiet was so we know?

Rex

[oxic]

Rex you are a Hydro not an Oxy.....

[oldtimer]

I was here back when all that **** was going on with a person named if I remember correctly "spook" I'm the one that you told me one time that there is a hospital bed with me and my hubby's name on it, I will tell you that we have not slowed down with the pills for over 3yrs,so my memory is really bad! I'm the one that had the heart attack,remember that wonderful lady who used to come here not for herself but for her daughter who had a bad heroin habit, damn! I can't remember her name! anyway, are all the oldtimers from that time on another site together? I remember that you really wanted to get clean, didn't you have like a 30yr habit with dervacets? didn't you have some seizures due to xnax..maybe I got you mixed up with someone else, I don't think so, but like I said, the only thing I've done is fry my brain more than before...do you remember me at all? take care
Dee

[oldtimer]

forgive me, I don't remember your handle at all, refresh my memory for me please,take care
Dee

[Thomas02]

Hello, my friend, I do indeed know you. You certainly proved you know me! How are you and your wife doing? You couldn't have fried your brain too much to recall all those details. I will see what I can do to get you onto a forum where everyone is who they say they are. This will require an e-mail from you so that your IP address can be checked against current members and non-members known for playing these idiotic games. Sorry I doubted you, but I'm sure you understand.

Thomas

[Rex1]

Thomas,

I am still quite lost on this issue of someone not being who they said they were.

I would like to know so I can avoid this myself..

Rex

[Thomas02]

Anyone can create as many handles as they want on Med Help and use them to hold banal conversations with themselves. Unfortunately, the site needs to control access at the IP level, that is, the internet address of your individual computer. There are people that derive pleasure from slashing someone's tires, and, I guess, there are people that entertain themselves by insulting those of us on the forum that ernestly seek to help our fellow addicts. For what it's worth, Rex, I know you're one of us. No one could make up the posts you do LOL!

Thomas

[Rex1]

Well, thanks....I think ;-). What was this persons handle, and will they be able to show back up here and post again?

I have been thinking, there seems to have been several folks that have left the site for good over this weeks "discussion" thread. Which can really only mean one thing - that they have put having their feelings hurt over helping the folks that arrive here everyday.

I guess I am so thankful for all the help that everyone here has given me, including those mentioed above, that I feel obligated to help anyone showing up here looking for answers. I am no expert, nor a medical pro like BodyMech, but I am currently a success story. (one pill away from a relapse story as well) But I hope that is worth something to someone. It can be done - 4 weeks on Wednesday...

......I still have alot to learn so hopefully everyone will cust me some slack when I over-do it! And I reiterate - I am just another addict that comprises this rag-tag bunch of forum members.

Thanks for your guidance over the last month...it has been invaluable.

[Thomas02]

If I had incontrovertible proof of who it is, or who they are, I would not hesitate to denounce them. But I don't want to do someone an injustice over an educated guess. Ultimately, I must agree with you. Within the limits of this forum, help should be offered to all who apply. Take satisfaction where it can be found and give your disappointments up to something greater than yourself. "Right Understanding, Right Thought, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration."

Thomas

[nomoreoxy]

Thank you so much everyone for responding.  You have no idea how much it helps.  None of my "friends" (including my "girlfriend") have any idea what its like and its hard to get by without talking to someone who knows.  Thanks guys, I did get the Thomas recipe, but doctors in HI. won't prescribe me the clonodine/benzo because of the "substitution" effect.  Bastards.  The Docs. I've talked to here have no experience with opiate addiction.  Out here meth is at a horrible epidemic-- trouble in paradise.  Anyone heard about using Kava for withdrawls?  It's about the closest thing to a anxiolytic that I have access to.  What kind of vitamins/supps. can I take to help?  I've heared about the b6 and l-tyrosine.  Thanks again, you don't know how much this means to me.  (p.s. I have'nt cried in 6 years I've cried about 5 times a day for the past 6 days).  Aloha.

[oldtimer]

glad to hear back from you..the only thing you got mixed up is I'm the wife, but hubby's doing just as 'bad' as me...it's funny how the older I get, I can remember the past like it was yesterday, but I can't remember yesterday! lol..what happened was i was without a PC for a very long time, and I lost everything, names, addresses, ect, so when I finally got back online it took me awhile but I finally found this site again, only I only recalled a few names, one of course which was yours..
I'll gladly get to know some of these people here, I'm sure your a great bunch also, any help I can get and give is a blessing either way..when you say you need my email addy, what is it you need, I have my internet through my cable company, so I have a 'main' email address, but I could also get an email address from hot mail or or another...tell me which one I need to give you, and do I write it here? why this is driving me nuts I can't tell you, but I have been picking my brain trying to remember other things from the old group and I can't for the life of me remember that woman's name..the one with the daughter, do you remember her name? take care...everyone I hope and pray today will be a good day for all
Dee

[Thomas02]

Hi Dee,

You can send a hotmail pseudoname. It won't matter. The message will still have your personal IP in the message header. Let me ask the EZOP for that forum what he's doing about new members first. Hopefully, the handful of morons that have been wasting our time on this forum are getting bored and will soon be moving on. But that's just a wish of mine. Unfortunately, both addiction and stupidity are eternal. Fortunately, they're seldom found in the same poster.

Thomas

[Thomas02]

If you can't get any Valium or other benzos (no friends or family with any laying around?), I recommend smoking some of that good island weed along with some Valerian root capsules. If you use the Valerian, compare ingrediants. The Valerianic acid is the active ingrediant. Buy the stuff with the most Valerianic acid content for best results. Good luck.

Thomas

[nomoreoxy]

Thanks for replying Thomas02.  I don't smoke weed anymore, haven't for a few years now. It makes me think and overanalyze too much-- drives me nuts.  This sucks, I relapsed already, It's barely been a week.  This time I managed to stay away from the oxy.  Got my hands on 90 mg of Morph.  I feel like such a piece of **** for doing it.  At least it wasn't Oxy, the effects are different.  It doesn't activate me like the oxy did.  But that warm, content feeling....  Sometimes I think that if I was rich, I wouldn't have to stop, that I could live indefinately like this...  The ultimate solution for me would be to erase myself or remove myself completely from where I can access this beautiful/horrible stuff.  Need to talk to you guys.  Hope your doing better than me.

[teeitup]

Don't beat yourself up to bad, we all back slide a little. Hang in there and just keep trying, this week is going tough for me too. Christmas with the in-laws, several other functions, it will be a miracle if i don't reach for that little extra booster.

Your doing fine, just keep plugging away!

teeitup!

[Rex1]

Ok, so you relapsed.

Now, recommitt yourself, reminding yourself that each time will be harder.

Try and think about your thoughts immediately prior to the thoughts when you took the Morp, and avoid the situation you were in if possible.

Good luck, and we're pulling for you.

Merry Christmas...

Rex

[Thomas02]

If I needed some Valium and my regular doc wouldn't put out, I'd walk into an urgent care with severe lower back pain. I'd say I strained it helping a friend move into his apartment. I'd say I just started a new job and my medical insurance doesnt kick in for 3 months so I have no regular doctor to see. I'd say I've had these back epsiodes on and off my whole life, but I don't want to take pain pills. A little bit of Valium and some rest has always worked before (it's a muscle relaxant). If the doc tries to offer you Flexeril (aka 'dogshit'), tell him you've been prescribed them in the past and they knock you out like an overdose of antihistamine and didn't do much for your back anyway. Chances are, you'll walk out with some Vals. Use a different pharmacy, different chain or private pharmacy. Just trying to help you get what you need to detox, because going from oxy to morphine isn't going to get you where you want to go. Good luck.

Thomas

[nomoreoxy]

Now my girlfriend has left.  Now I really feel lost, alone, scared, vulnerable.  It's hard to "choose life sometimes.  The worst ******* christmas ever (once again).  Happy Birthday Jesus.  I know you love me.  Can't wait to feel the familiar ***** and leave the pain behind me.kdjlsakj,

[nomoreoxy]

How can I deal with this without my girlfriend.  We were together for so long.  She was my foundation, my inspiration.  Well I'm going to need to put off being a quitter.  Sorry guys.  Pray for me...  I can't believe she's gone.  It hurts soooooooooooo much.

[sharonver]

Hang in there!!!  It is tough dealing with these kind of issues alone.  I know you miss her.  I have to deal with these alone also because my finace' just wouldn't understand. Just remember we will be there for you.  Life does get better.

Sharon

[Rex1]

I feel for you bud. Hang in there. I have been there and it is no fun.

It is very often that moments like this, which appear dark, are actually reflected upon as the turning point for tremendous change in ones life.

Over and over I hear stories about how the darkest of days spawned a new beginning that folks never thought was possible. I know this probably sounds like physobabble but it isn't.

(Tony Robbins book, Awaken the Giant Within discusses the lowest point of his life, when he was a janitor in a large sports arena. He later flew into thaat very arena on his own Jet helicopter to speak, on top of the world a multimillionaire, with that moment the decisive changing point in his life!)

You will feel bad, but it WILL pass, along with the withdrawals too. You have to know now that your mood will be better once this passes.

All things happen for a reason, imo. But many times that is not helpful and doesn't make you feel any better. The only thing I know to do is to pray for you and ask God to make His plan known to you...

God's Grace to you...

Rex

[teeitup]

your not alone, lean on this forum. if your going to use try and do as little as possible. hang tough were all thinking of you!

teeitup!

[sumeria]

I was up to 120mg a day of oxycontin. I cut it to 20mgs a day abruptly. I went through a week of depression and feeling like I had a horrible flu.

I could not kick the 20mgs a day.

I finally went to the doc and he prescribed 10mg of oxycontin twice a day for the first week with 300mg of Wellbutrin, 10mg once a day for the second week, then stop altogether. I kept a chart and actually spaced out the 10mg dosages, 12 hours the first day, 13 hours the 2nd, 14 hours the third, 16 hours the 4th 10mg dose, etc. After the 4-5th day I was not waiting until it was time to take the dose. I am at 26 hours now and hope to be free relatively painlessly soon. I hope this helps.

[madeline]

Hi everyone,

Well thanks to saveyourself (Greg) I am
at this site.  Hey I need some help here.
I am currently on 12-15 percocets a day.
I am going to try the taper method, as I
cant go in a detox at this time.  (if this
doesnt work I will then HAVE to go in one)
But what I am trying to find out is, how
should I taper.   Should I drop one a day
or two a week.  I have felt the beginnings
of the withdrawals, and I am 50 yrs old
and dont think I could handle cold turkey.
I have an 11 year old and a 13 yr old and
need to be able to function.  anyone who
has done this please let me know how it
worked.  I desperately need to start NOW>

Meantime I just keep reading around.
thanks so much and you all  be blessed
and hope I can help you guys out somehow.
Love Madeline

[sumeria]

According to my doc, percocet lasts 4 hours or so, so after the 4 hours you start withdrawal.  Percocet is not good to use to taper.

I traded him my percocet for a weeks supply of 10 mg oxycontin every twelve hours. After a week I was supposed to cut back to once a day.  What I did was increase the number of hours between doses to taper a little faster.  12 hours the 1st day 13 the next, 14 the next, etc.  

I just took one 10mg dose 25 hours after my last, when I get to 36-40 hours between doses, I think then I will stop, endure a bit of withdrawal for a few days.  I think Purdue Pharma should make a 5mg tablet for us who want to taper of this medication.  If you divide the tablet, the dose does not last 12 hours, because breaking it breaks the time release function.

The doc also prescribed 300mg a day of Wellbutrin, but I really don't know if that is doing anything or not.  I started at 12omg a day and stopped 100 of it all at once and was taking 4 percocet a day until I went to the doc.

Good luck.