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How much should I taper?
by Oxyclean, Dec 17, 2002 12:00AM
I have been on Oxycontin since March. I was taking as much as 160mg twice a day. I did not crush them etc. I am now down to 20mg in the morning 10mg in the afternoon and 10mg at night. I have been hospitalized because the doctor tapered me down too fast. I have diabetes so when I start withdrawing I get very sick. My question is my doctor wants to taper me down by 10mg every week. The last week he wants me to take 10mg every other day. He says that I will not have any withdrawal if I taper. Do you feel that this is true, and how do you feel about this taper?
I have been wearing a Catapress#2 patch since the taper began.
Thank you, Oxyclean
I have been wearing a Catapress#2 patch since the taper began.
Thank you, Oxyclean
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Man, you are almost home free by the sound of it. 320Mgs a day down to 40? That is a serious tapering success story.
Obviously, you want to stick it out all the way. 10mgs a week will probably be do-able, but you might want to switch to vicodin for the last few weeks. It may actually be better to go to an "instant release" med like vikes or percs and let your system get used to flushing it faster. Hydrocodone is, theoretically, a milder opiod than Oxycodone, so it might be good to move to it. Darvon is milder still, and you might want to consider switching to that for the last week.
As far as withdrawal, I would guess that you will feel a little at least, some sleep disruption, maybe a little anxiety, some depression perhaps. Just deal with it. It will pass. You are in damn good shape. Most people can't get out as gracefully as you are.
Rex
I was taking 800mgs OC a day, and stopped cold after 21 days of methadone detox. I ended up in the ER after not sleeping for 23 days straight. Sometimes the pain we go through in withdrawal is a blessing later on. We know what other people are going through, and we know we don't ever want to go back there ourselves. There is a price to pay for this stuff, and the people who can suck it up and hang through the pain are the lucky ones who have a chance to make it out. Staying clean is another beast entirely, but that's another post...
Sounds like you have gone through hell dude. Maybe get your doc to take you down the rest of the way without too much trauma: 10 mgs a week should be fine, but perhaps you should stabilize at 40mgs before you start dropping. What's the 40 like right now?
Are you pschologically addicted? Or are you just physically adcited?
***@****
Oxycontin is straight oxycodone. It is nothing like I have ever experienced with any other type of opiate.
The escalation of tolerance for me was unreal. It is also extremely potent and long acting.
I never realized total pain relief until I was put on that. It was very nice to even realize that until I took an extra one, once. That is all it took for it to go from taking all my physical pain away, to causing mental pain that could not be cured anymore. Until I stopped taking it........
This is what happened to me, to ME. It is different for everyone and everyone's feelings on it will be and should be different. Except of course those who have not taken it.
If you sit back and say, well its just oxycodone, it should be the same as Hydrocodone, or percocet withdrawal. IT IS NOT in the least bit the same.
Of course I thought the same thing BEFORE I took it. I figured it would be no problem and just the same. Well, let me tell you it isn't.
It is a unique drug, with a unique set of issues surrounding it when detoxing off it. Since it is long acting, it also takes longer to recoup after stopping it.
So when someone says they are on 40mg a day, sure it is like 8 percocets. YET the withdrawals are nothing like going CT off 8 percs a day. Cause I have been through both. I ALSO figured they would be the same. I learned very quickly the difference. Especially if you are abusing it via snorting, crushing, eating ect. I am sure that is even worse.
This is just to let those people know out there that haven't taken it.........it is not the same and should be respected for that.
I just love to learn the hardway I guess. I read so much before the switch, yet STILL thought it would be just fine and I wouldn't have any problems. Well of course I was wrong...
I guess I will never listen, until I learn for myself. The hardway of course......
Chezz
Swallowing the dose...well I am not sure about that as I never did, except when I tapered. It is time-released when swallowed, and it's like an onion - layers peel off and distribute the stuff over 8-12 hours. Still, it's just oxycodone, and taking it in time relase fashion is like eating a few percs every few hours. I can't see any reason why withdrawals would be any different if one was taking equivalent amounts of either.
I didn't see ANY reason they would be different either. Yet they were. Could be for a variety of reasons, to include that every withdrawal period is different.
I was just passing along my version of what I went through with the meds and the differences I experieced. Especially since I have been well versed in taking percocet, yet that was the first time for oxycontin.
Chezz
My experience was that it was different with the withdrawals. That is the bottom line. Whether it "should" have been the same or not, it wasn't...
I know that my w/d from opiates in general has gotten worse, the longer I have been on / off them. My body has changed somehow,and every Detox is worse than the last. I get addicted much faster and easier as well.
Hell for all I know, Lily, or whoever makes OC's, puts extra **** in them that will **** you up even worse.
Let us all know how you are doing...
Rex
Jen
I will be sending an email tommorrow, And thank you for your concern. Why should I have to get drugs over the internet? My doctor should have some faith in me and let me try. I am not going through a "taper" torture with ultram. NO WAY! All this **** is really scaring me ... opiates have been around since forever .... I should have used them occassionally for acute pain, and an anti-inflamatory for on going pain. I got sucked into the "drugs for profit" pitfall. If all the chronic pain people get well ..... the drug companies go down. Anyway, enough complaining. I got myself into it ... there must be a way out.
Because of my fibromyalgia condition. I am 10 times more sensitive to pain .... I guess I need God's help ... actually, I know I do.... Goldie
Rex ..... I've been here everyday .... just reading and trying to figure things out. I appreciate everyone here. Alot of very brave people. I'm thinking about the people I have seen at my rhematologist office. They are all limping, using canes and all busted up. I am bouncing around and in pretty good shape so far .... maybe I need a different type of doctor. Or maybe I should count my blessings ..... anyway, all my best to you. Stay kool .... G
Sorry to hear you had such a bad time getting off the oxycontin. Next time try and taper off of it, then onto the percocet for at least a week. Then taper from there. I am sure that will be a lot easier on you and your system.
Chezz
PS Your doc was correct in that any short acting med is easier to get addicted to. It provides "immediate" gratification for a person that is seeking more than pain relief. With the longer acting time released meds, used as directed, the "high" associated is a lot less pronounced.
let me know how you are doing!! it is encouraging for me!
by the way i am 40 and have been on these pills for over 2 years for chronic arthritis/back pain. was a miricle drug--now it is from hell!!
Just read your post vicojen, your story is identical to mine. I am in day 12 cold turkey with the thomas recipe. I also have had to withdraw from percs or lora tabs, codiene way to many times in the last 12 years. Usually with in a week I was clean and functioning until the next relapse.
I have been on 300 to 400mgs of oxy for the last 14 months with 12 perc 10s daily. The first week of withdrawl was not to bad. However, the past two days I am coming out of my skin. Total anxiety, pain in my bones and legs that hot soaks did nothing. I was out of clonidine and the valium. I mean this is the worst day I have had yet. So, I go to see a Doctor, one of four who has known me and my family for 10 years. The last time I saw him two months ago he told me no more percs or oxy for you. So, I apoligized for using our friendship for drugs and I have not used for 12 days. I show him the thomas recipe and asked him for more clonidine and 5mgs valium. He acted as if I was
a stranger. He then says he wants me to talk to his addictionoligist, now mind you I am in no mood for this, but I go talk to her after an half hour wait.
After I told her how much I was using. I was hurting, anxiety and how well the thomas recipe had been working, I showed it to her. Please prescribe friggin 5mgs valium and clonidine and let me go home. Her reponse was I should go on methadone, not once did she say this, but 5 times. I amswered no everytime, been there, done that in 1988, it took 5 months for all withdrawls to go away. Oxycontin is the same type of withdrawl at least for me. So she gives me 15 vals, 15 clonidine and 1 mgs klonipin. I go to the pharmacy and they say it is to early to fill the scripts. I was able to get a few vals and my wife is just going to get the scripts in her name tomorrow. She's got 50 days opiate free, her doc is coopertive. so I can see how people snap, it would have been easier just to say to the doc, alright one more script of oxy and percs, he would of done it.
With all respect, doctors need to take opiates for one month everyday before they go into residency. Maybe then, they will relate. Now, these friggin pharmacists think their DEA agents and treat people with legitamate ailments as if their faking scripts,even tho there are those that do. The whole system is screwed up. I am going to Na meetings and got a great church we go to. I will be drug free by Jan 1 ,2003That is how I will maintain my recovery. vicojen, just one more time, you are so right oxy is so hard on the body and the withdwals equal methadone and heroin. Like you I will never accept oxy again. Thanks for your post and to all who share their experiance ,strength and hope.
Peace and Strength
Hey buddy, sorry to hear the last couple days have been so rough. You sound real strong though.....keep hangin in...i feel for ya.
Since you kicked the Methadone Gorilla so successfully, your gonna kick the **** out of this Oxy-Monkey!!
Hope things start to improve real soon.
Percs
Hang in there bu, Jan 1st will be here before you know it.
Have you thought about going for a deep tissue massage. MAny here have said good things about it.
Oxic,
Thanks always to you percs for your support and encouragement.
Rex
Thanks to everyone, I've gone 6 days with only 1 ES each day. Know way I'd be at this point without everyones comments!
Thank you!
Teeitup!
my doc says don't worry about being on it, think of it like taking insulin.
my only worry, according to him, is if something happens to him. he is a very pain-free, oxy prescribing doc. i have chronic pain, arthritis and back stuff. just the thought of somethng happening to him and having to go cold turkey scares me enough to want to try to taper off of them now.
---anyhow i am going to write of my struggles with this everyday---maybe it will help someone or maybe someone can help me--
so today it is only 7am and i have taken my first 40mg oxy. i am going to
try to do 210mgs today. ---i 'll let you know how i do.--;)
Good luck with the doc!
Rex
I was on 800mgs oxy daily, and made it off, so you can do it. I was taking it for no good reason however. You have legit pain and that adds a layer of complexity that I am not familiar with.
Do you take the doses as directed (that is, swallowed)?
Are you for real? That is amazing!!! If so, how long did it take you and how much did you taper at a time. You are the first person that I have heard that has been able to beat the Demon. I hope your story its true.
You don't know what it means to know that someone has been able to beat this. Can't wait to hear from you!!! Bye, Sono
P.S. How did you get a name like Hellbent?
Yes, I was on 0C's for 3-4 years, spent the last year eating between 8-11 80's a day, as that's what I needed to get any kind of high from them at that point. I was able to secure a steady supply of OC 80's (and, for awhile, I was getting 160's too, but they stopped making them), and had enough money that I never had to withdraw - this was exactly what I thought I wanted when I started, the time and money to stay perpetually high on opiods - be careful what you ask for!
I was never very successful tapering. I was running out of cash and was going to be homeless. I finally stared swallowing my doses and got to about 6 80's a day then did a 21 day methadone detox. Then, I hunkered up at home and freaked out for a month. I was also addicted to Klonopin, which I went cold turkey from. That was perhaps worse than the OC. Didn't sleep for 23 days.
I am defintely not a tough guy when it comes to detox. I hate the pain as much as anyone. I feel really blessed I was able to get through it, and I want to let people know that it can be done. The horror can be tolerated if you just accept that it will get better. And it will. I am so much healthier, mentally and physically, than I have been, perhaps ever before, only 7-1/2 short months after stopping. The pain of detox was pretty damn bad, but I was almost dead from taking so much of that stuff. The pain seems like a worthy tradeoff for having a chance to live.
I'm not the first person to beat OC's. It's do-able. If you don't have the added burden of psycological addiction, your chances of staying off them skyrocket.
I don't know how I missed your post about oxycotin in the last couple of days, you are so right on the money. I am on day 14 CT with the recipe and I am no where near over the withdrawls of the oxy. Each night I think the next day will be better and pow, it's worse. I figure another two weeks I will be having good days consistently. I have read here how it is like coming of of percs, just more quanity your taking. I do not agree or maybe it is a pharmacist qouting oxys manufactuer. Speaking from my own experiance these last two weeks, CT 300 to 400mgs chewed and 10 to 12 percs 325/10s daily the withdrawls are so different,constant and painful. The anxiety, mental and withdrawl is so intense from any other pain pill I have done. vicojen is right, oxys are for people who will not ever have to stop taking them until they die. For me it is compared to cold turkey from 120 mgs of methadone having used the meth a year. I know that for a fact because I did it in 1988. If I need to ever have pain meds I will refuse oxys, sometime we are going to read about not an O.D. from them, but someone dieing that stop taking them.
I personally think their is a major kickback, bonus or some other form of reward for these doctors to be using oxy when lora tab, percs ect. would be just as an effective pain management tool. Except for the terminal ill.
By the way, you put your post in a profesional, eloquent way that I am going to print that sucker now.
Strength and Honor
Greg
I stopped the Oxy's 18 days ago and converted to Roxicodone -- the instant release form that they give you for breakthrough pain -- and decided to taper from these as you can control the release in your system much more easily.
I am/was doing well, but I now have to have a hip replacement operation on 1/2/03 so they'll jack up my dose in the hospital I suppose. I hope that I can just reduce it again to the 60-75 mgs that I've reduced it to.
I really had to beg the dr. to work with me on lowering my dose. He thinks that I simply refuse to follow his directions. I've talked to him about the horrors of withdrawals many, many times -- he just tells me that if and when I'm pain free *we'll* just taper off. "You won't even notice it" he tells me, or "you'll just feel like you have the flu for a few days." **Yeah, right** I don't know what kind of flu the dr. has ever had ... Oxy withrawals feels a lot more, I would guess, like bubonic plague.
My tapering experience is that I managed to get my body used to 75 mgs by just taking a 15 mg pill when w/d starts. Only taking 60 is still quite horrible. Do you guys out there think that after my operation I can just go right back to the taper?
And.
I have a very sensitive metabolism, and unfortunately, even food affects my moods and energy levels. I also have a somewhat weak liver, and it definitely does not like tylenol at all! I started taking the best medicine ever for me: Aspirin 325mg with codeine 30 or 60 mg (#3¡¦s or #4¡¦s), maybe 4 or 5 pills a week. This past January I switched to regular vicodin because of stomach irritation due to the aspirin. I was doing fine with vicodins, and although I had increased intake to 10mg of hydrocodone a day, I stayed there and was feeling well, except for the known damage to the liver.
This past August I had minor surgery and was given percocets for pain (which was intense to say the least). I have to agree with those of you who said escalated the dosage in an unbelievable way. In the term of one week I was taking up to 9 percocets a day. I was popping pills like there was no tomorrow. Finally, my liver started getting really pissed off, so I requested oxycontin for the remaining week or so of pain. I ended up mixing the two pills, and I was out of control. I had gained 10 lbs. in about a week and my stomach looked as if I had been pregnant (a little hard, since I¡¦m a guy ƒº). I got scared, so I stopped taking all pills without ever thinking about withdrawals, since I never thought I could be addicted. Was I wrong. I barely remember the next 5 days.
The diarrhea was unstoppable, I would go to the bathroom and sit there just to see if I would feel better. I could not sit, lay in bed, or stay still. I was constantly stretching my muscles by twisting in bed. I was cold, then hot. I was lucky to have some xanax at home and at least I kept myself sleeping to pass this, what I thought was a ¡§stomach flu¡¨. I even went to my doctor with great pain, since I had to take a shower and put clothes on to go see him. That alone was a chore. My doc almost put me in the hospital for dehydration. I could not drink, eat, or function like any normal human being. I lost 12 lbs during these 5 days. I was detoxing without my realizing that was the problem. I even remember having delirious dreams and thoughts.
Finally, on the 5th day, I realize that what I just went through was withdrawals. So, to feel better, I took a vicodin. WOW! I was the king of earth after that!
Finally, I chatted with the doctor who prescribes vicodin, and we agreed that I do not need the Tylenol provided in the vicodin. So, we just switched to Watson¡¦s Norco with 325mg Tylenol and 10 mg hydrocodone. I take two a day, and all my symptoms are practically gone. At least someone had the brains to take that nasty and dangerous Tylenol from what otherwise is considered a good medication. The main reason why Tylenol is included in these medication is just so that the medication falls in the schedule III of controlled substances, instead of the schedule II in which hydrocodone belongs.
I do believe that percocets are good medication, but you must be EXTREMELY careful with your intake of this medication. Much more than vicodins. It was percocets and oxy¡¦s that put me in that awful physical state.
I also agree that switching to vicodins before weaning is a good idea. I¡¦m no doctor, but I listen to my body and I know it doesn¡¦t like the wicked Oxycodone.
Good luck to all of you who have taken the step to recovery.
Love
Nick
Well I want to thank Saveyourself for leading me to
this board. I have read alot here and it seems like
alot of nice people. thanks Greg.
Well I have a question for Chezz. Since I read
about you taking the percocets. I at this time want
to taper off my percocets, cause I really want to try
to do this without going in detox. I have been on them
since March for a knee surgery, and of course with
my addicitive personality, went more and more for the
feeling they give. I have gone up to about 15 a day.
I am trying to taper. Does it work? And if I continue
to go down, and go down on amount will the withdrawals
not be as bad. I have cut back a little already.
But woke up this morning as usual with the horrific
headache and stomach cramps. Last time I took them
was last night at six. I really want to taper cause
I am in the process of getting a job I have waited
and waited for. I took the drug test the other day
and am waiting for them to question me on the results.
Of course it is legal because I have a prescip. for them.
Well I took my morning dose, and am going to try to
take them ONLY as needed. I dont need them for my knee
just to feel normal.
Hey, it is wonderful to be here and I am gonna go back
now and read some more of the posts. So glad to be
here. I already take prozac for depression, so maybe
I will not get the depression everyone talks about.
Well now that you guys are helping me, hope I can be
of somehelp to you. I have been praying for all that
I meet on the boards thru the internet.
God Bless you all
Love Madeline
I could not kick the 20mgs a day.
I finally went to the doc and he prescribed 10mg of oxycontin twice a day for the first week with 300mg of Wellbutrin, 10mg once a day for the second week, then stop altogether. I kept a chart and actually spaced out the 10mg dosages, 12 hours the first day, 13 hours the 2nd, 14 hours the third, 16 hours the 4th 10mg dose, etc. After the 4-5th day I was not waiting until it was time to take the dose. I am at 26 hours now and hope to be free relatively painlessly soon. I hope this helps.
I really think this drug is next to impossible to beat. it has a 99.9% relapse rate witch is that of heron. This drug is legal drug dealing. I wish I could let the F.D.A. members feel the withdrawl of this drug and see if they would hace passed it then. I know one person that ate a bullet of trying to beat this addiction. who knows i maybe the next! don't believe your doctors they get kick backs from the pharm. incs. they dom't give a **** about me or you all they care about is that you(your ins.) keep paying for visits. I wish I would have known then what I know know!!!
Well I havent been around in awhile,
but am glad to be here. Well my tapering
from percocet has been so far working.
I am down from 15 a day to 6 or 7.
My question is my Doc cut off the scrip
and I probably have about 30 left. I heard
you can switch over to vicodin at the end,
and I do have some left from the original
accident that lead to my surgery that
lead to my percocet addiction.
I am very curious to know if anyone out
there has gone from the percocet to the
vicodin and how were the withdrawals in
the final stages. I cant afford to call
in sick, and am wondering the best way
to complete the taper. I am trying my
darnest to stick to the taper, and of course
I will add it is one of the hardest things
I have ever had to do in my life. I am
just getting real scaird cause I am close
to out and finishing the taper. (And pray
to I NEVER go back to these little demon
pills again. Upon awakening now, I wake
up in the morning with terrible stomach
cramps and headaches. And I dont know how
bad they would get because I always pop
that first pill, but thank God I have been
able (SO FAR) to taper. Any suggestions
love to hear them, and want to thank
all of you for everything.
love,
Madeline
I've been taking narcotics for a crumbling spine now for at least 20 years. Started with only Digesic (Paradex) but with tolerance my doctor started me on MS Contin (Morphine) 10mg became 30mg then 60mg, 100mg, 130mg twice daily, went to a pain clinic and was prescribed Kapanol (Morphine in granuals) taking 250mg a day, then 300mg and later 400mg. After about a year this was changed to methadone (the so called miracle drug), after 5 years on this I realised the this was the drug from hell. I was taking up to 120mg a day as my tolerance grew ever faster and on top of that I was still swallowing up to 400mg of Kapanol ( the stock I had left).
At 46 years of age I began to think what would happen if I got cancer or some other painfull illness, no pain medication would touch it.
So I made the decision, time to leave my comfortable haze. Cold Turkey I chose, I did not know what lay ahead, first 2 days fine, the next 4 weeks I had NO sleep, knawing torment throughout my upper body, chills, distress indescribable, stomach cramps, diarreah like I've never known which after 5 weeks is still just as bad as 3 weeks earlier along with a wieght loss of currently 10 Kgs and still falling off. I am an immotional mess, even TV shows bring me to tears and as for my wife, well nothings happened between us in all that time.
The lessons I learn't and are still being reinforced is that be aware when you see your Doctor, don't take the first option, do some research first. Narcotics are not the answer unless you only have a short time to live, then addiction doesn't matter.
The hell of withdrawels is far worse than any pain I've ever experienced and as I write this, this hell goes on, for how long no one can tell me, this alone is extremely frustrating. Maybe someone in this forum may know. I am very weak now from the continuing diarreah, even if this could stop things would be improved. All medication has failed for this and my doctor has no answers.
It would be easy to return to the drugs but this would be a personal failure that I could not live with. I feel sorry for those that have gone back, they must be torn apart inside.
Aussie152
MY BLOODPRESSURE IS FINE WHEN I AM ON OPIATES , EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE I HAVE A LITTLE PANIC ATTACK AND MY BP GOES UP TO LIKE 150/95 AND THEN BACK DOWN, THANK YOU NICK......
MY BLOODPRESSURE IS FINE WHEN I AM ON OPIATES , EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE I HAVE A LITTLE PANIC ATTACK AND MY BP GOES UP TO LIKE 150/95 AND THEN BACK DOWN, THANK YOU NICK......
MY BLOODPRESSURE IS FINE WHEN I AM ON OPIATES , EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE I HAVE A LITTLE PANIC ATTACK AND MY BP GOES UP TO LIKE 150/95 AND THEN BACK DOWN, THANK YOU NICK......