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How to help/deal with a loved one with a drug problem
I feel like I'm at the end of my rope! Having a heart condition (open heart surgery) recently, the stress of dealing with a unhappy child on drugs and knowing what to do for them,the right way to handle the situation, and not cause them more trouble is
becoming more difficult each day. Question, do I keep calm and agree with them, listen to there problems,or get angry and shout and say "you have to help yourself first"? Please give me any advice so I will do the right thing.  Thank You!
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Luke...

I hope you are aware that if you post anyone's real name , as you just suggested to Anjelica above, or anyone's address or personal information without their consent that you are violating not only the unspoken terms of common civility but also the terms of agreement of this forum. You have just implied in a post that you could possibly do that. I believe that your isp is traceable and you can be barred from this forum if you were to choose to do something like that. I also believe that you would not be able to sign in with other names. About a year ago 2 posters were removed with far less offensive propositions. Yes, you could use a different isp, different pc and so on... it's all possible... but you would have to not violate again. I consider your comment to be noteworthy in regards to the trust that people would place in you ... you are free to disagree with anyone but not to do what you suggested.

Best wishes Luke, Maria Seraphina
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I posted here and listened here for a year and it has helped me tremendously. I am personally grateful for the support of so many that I now stay in touch with via e-mail and also those couneless others who posted on the board and will never know who they are. I decided to not post any longer and also let that be known. I am about the business of finding some healing in different ways now. I do stop in and read. The comment by Spook above to Anjelica is one of the main reasons I left this board... TRUST... a vital component in relationships even in this medium... it has dissipated here and this is why the thread entitled "ANYONE" caused me to say what I did and ultimately apologize. Again there is a violation of TRUST as evidenced above. I hope those of you who honor that we may not agree or like the personalities that come through here, are still trustworthy and honorable people ... to the degree that they express themselves here. I do hope that you will use your voice and uphold what is right and decent. Love, Maria Seraphina
( Brighty)
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Well, well, well!!!! That's what I AM today!  I was just looking at the title of this string.....hmmmmmmmm........Well here goes...... I love ALL of you.......it's great to be alive!!!! and FEELING emotions again.........Day 14 off of the "Dragon" and the Wizard is FEELING his ole "Magick" again!   Emotions.....funny thing emotions....LOTS of them stirring up here on this site.....That's why God led me here I think! To SEE the emotions that I have been opiating away from....Good ones....Bad ones.....Lusty ones...I HAVE them ALL again! and it's great!  Cindi, that was some VERY interesting reading you pointed me to..I thank you for that....Spook, Your Usual wisdom has enlightened me to no end! Such thoughts of the magnitude that you expound get the mind juices flowing whether I aggree or not..Great job!  For that I Thank YOU!.....Ginnette, I've never had the pleasure of exchanging thoughts, but to you I say Power & Magick 2U as I do ALL MY FRIENDS.....Thomas, You were my first contact here and a Life saver to me....Through you I met EVERYONE else.....and you all KNOW who you are...To you Thomas my Heartfelt Gratitude.....Friends...What a Great CONCEPT! Friends...isn't that what WE ALL are? At least here in cyber junkie land? LOL  WOW!!!!! My fingers ,I think, are being driven by Divine forces...Must be!!!! I'm not this smart! Or am I? Help with LOVED ones...I think that was the title this string...well, once again, my LOVED ones, Thank You for ALL being there when I needed you in my time of dispair and loneliness :-) I'm sure as time goes on the LIGHT will get brighter!  I apologize for rambling but being enveloped in the Light as I am today, I felt compelled to share this GREAT THING with ALL my FRIENDS meaning ALL of you....For this Mother's day I wish each and every one of you a Blessed weekend...You especially Cindi...you know what I mean......and finally 2 U Mother Earth,Happy Mothers Day....Wonders of you never cease. As I was finishing this post Mother Earth  just sent a fledgling  Blue Jay into my office. What a lesson for me to see it trapped as I have felt in the past. For all of you out there,addicts,recovering or not and Family members trying to help, just know that I caught the  bird unharmed and carried him outside blowing my Wizard prayers for all of us onto him, I released him back to Mother Earth...How ironic on Mothers Day weekend to witness his rebirth to life and to experience my rebirth to life!
God Bless us All!,
Power & Magick 2 U All,
Love,
Wizard
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Hi there,  I'm glad you enjoyed the "article" and found it to be interesting?  to say the least..you sound so ver happy and free...I love that feeling....you have no idea how that makes me feel to know that someone out there is hapy and living life to the fullest....My friend,,,we have shared some very interesting and enlightening e-mails and I have seen you evolve in just a very short time...and this evolution I hope is contagious...thank you for the Mother's day wish...I know this will be a very difficult one at that but with friends like you, and the others that know who they are,,,I know where I can go when i need to.....have a great weekend and keep on keepin on  love cin
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Ginette, you honor me with your response to my post. Thank you for entering my circle! I do apologize as I just notice that I misspelled your name in the above post. Your words to me are kind and kindness is what motivates my heart :-) I trully hope that someday it will motivate everyone on this planet..Such a dream that is. I believe that it has been the dream of so many GREAT people. Ghandi, Jesus, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King,
Joan Baez the list goes on and on.....But it's never enough it seems. It all starts in our hearts and can only spread from there. I hope you have a wonderful weekend and look to the sky for my Blue Jay as I think he's on his way spreading HOPE, LOVE and Peace.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light,
Love,
Wizard
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As always, you have once again set an example for this entire forum...to express your opinion in a most tactfull and eloquent way....no need to threaten, humiliate or degrade other people...and for this my friend, I commend you...Sometimes when I become upset or frustrated with something I have a way of voicing my opinion that is in nay even close to how you word things...I at times, don't think before I speak or "type" in this case  LOL Angellica is a very candid person and like you, not afraid to speak her mind....I understand where she is coming from re: using this forum in the way it was meant to be utilized...there are times that we,  all of us use it to joke around etc..you know what I mean but... to go as far to threaten to expose someones identity..and in another post she had been referred to as offensive...I don't think her behavior was what was offensive  she was merely expressing her opinion on something  is that not what this forum is about?  Hoep you Maria, have a great Mother's day.....talk to you soon      Love cin
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Cin......Keep On Keeping On is EXACTLY what I intend to do ;-*
Remember what I said about the weekend. I know it is going to be hard because of your loss. But it can also be unforgettable because of YOUR children and husband. Make it so. You told me awhile back to keep my focus and strength. To this I say to you,
you also do the same. Remember we reap what we sew. And if I remember what you told me about your beloved mother, what she sewed in you, you shall reap from your children! It's in your grasp, just reach out for it. If times get tough, then also know that we are here to help pick up some of the pieces. Remember she's out there with my father smiling down upon us. Even though for the last few years I may not of given him much to smile about :-) LOL, he's smiling now. I know this in my heart.......
Peace be with you my dear friend,
Power & Magick 2 U  (extra Wizard dose this weekend),
Love,
Wizard
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I also wish you a VERY HAPPY MOTHERS DAY! I appreciate your candor and honesty. Each person who has posted since I came here has brought something of humanity back into my life. As I said before, good, bad or indifferant. There was SOMETHING of a lesson for me. For this I am forever grateful.  Trust is a very fragile thing now in our troubled times.  I don't give very freely, but I depended on it HERE. I hope for our sakes and the sake of future visitors that it can and will be sanctified back if in fact it was lost. I have kept myself distant to some of the posts, for they had no benifit for me or humanity except to learn from maybe. Even though, we may not have posted to one another, I have learned very much from your writings to others.
I hope to have the opportunity to continue to learn from you. I believe in speaking ones mind with what is in ones heart at any given moment. I do not think you have ever veered away from doing just that. Right, wrong or indifferant you carry on with class and integrity. It's a pleasure to wish you good tidings for this holiday and forever.
Peace & Light upon U,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Love Always,
Wizard
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My final post for tonight because I'm buzzing with natural energy.
I've carried this in my wallet for years and thought I'd share it with any of you who are SEEKERS OF KNOWLEDGE.
It's called:     MESSENGER OF WISDOM

Once appeared a wise man, though a stranger
           in my dreams
he came upon a chariot riding down the
           sun-lit beams
pulled by celestial horses who grazed
           the milky way.
He held the reins of wisdom, in my sight he'll
           always stay
his words they echoed loud across the
           vastness of the sky
only once, would he share my world,
           this his passing by
he took me in his chariot and talked
           of many things
showed me worlds beyond my dreams that
           would astonish even kings
he said my son these dreams you see are
           all within your grasp
if you continue searching and take the
           time to ask.

Walter Rinder

Goodnight and Bless us all,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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WAY TRUTH, my brother. WAY TRUTH.
Spook you too shall be in my thoughts as in my heart as an unseen but not unheard FRIEND! Have much Peace this weekend, and do me a favor, as I understand it you are down under. Look to the Heavens for brother. I understand you have a differant view from your home. Send me your vision so I too can see what you see! So much Magick in the air....It's crackeling! Your story awhile back about the aboriginal little girl brought hours of tears to my eyes in sorrow. So TRUE was the story..........again I say look to the unblemished Heavens for me tonight as I will for you!
Peace & Light 2 U,
Power & Magick 2U,
Love from your friend,
Wizard
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Well recieved brother! We have eternity to complete the plan. I hope all is well for you and your own. Keep searching, the chariot is still out there.
Power& Magick 2U,
God bless us in our journies,
Wizard
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You are a very insightful person and you offer excellent advice..you are very much like me as far as wanting to strike back in defense...I think that we all are pretty good at taking everyone eles's inventory but God forbid someone should take ours...your advice is always appreciated and may I say that I will take it and keep in in my mind...thank you again   :)  cin
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Thanks a lot for all of this, It is winter here in Australia and it is cold and raining and windy as I type this, I can still see `the` light though, but it is not the season for anything special,(like dark skys, full moons, and stars) Its more of a log fire type of feeling around here, lately the weather has gone off, so to speak, a couple of us did send some magic energy your way just very recently, we discussed your special character and how we share similar philosophies and other esoteric type of wave lengths, so I relate to your current enthusiasm (mystic energy).
Luke
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Just felt like adding something here. . .have been very busy lately and just catching up on threads, so forgive me if I seem a bit behind.  As usual, I preface this only by saying that I most certainly do not claim to have found The Right Way(TM) concerning anything in life. . .just certain things that have been useful to me which I'd like to share.

Although I am the last person to push any program (AA, NA, whatever) down anyone's throat, occasionally something I hear at meetings proves just too true to be left unrepeated.  One thing which I heard early on and still rings very true to me is this:  when we react to other people in a negative way, when provoked, we give them power over us.

I'm a big hockey fan, so let me give you this analogy -- some players in the NHL are known as "agitators".  Their primary purpose is to go out on the ice and stir up the opposition (glove to the face, elbow to the head, whatever), in hopes of goading their opponent to take a shot back at them.  In 90% of the cases, when they do their job well, the result is this -- the agitator goes unpenalized while the provoked player who strikes back is sent to the penalty box.

This may on the surface seem unfair, but let's look at it more closely.  The aim of this method of officiating is to cut down on violence in general in the sport and improve the flow of the game.  If it worked 100% of the time (which, of course, it doesn't), the job of the agitator would become obsolete.  If no one retaliated to their cheap shots, there not only would be no reason to deliver them but eventually the referees would catch the agitators in mid-suckerpunch (or whatever) and send them off, thus completely negating their purpose.  Agitators are rarely skill players, and it is unlikely they would keep their jobs were they to become ineffective at taunting the opposition into doing something stupid.

So what's my point?  Here, as in many other discussion boards and forums I have seen/been a part of over the years, people will quite naturally take offense to the comments of others.  For the record, this is one of the better-behaved forums I have seen overall.  But people still clash.

I suppose all I am saying is this:  if someone irritates you, it is much better in the long run to *completely ignore the person*.  Don't retaliate.  There are two possibilities here -- either the person meant to annoy you, in which case they will gleefully strike back (causing some long, repetetive, boring threads which ultimately take the focus off the main reason we are here, which is hopefully recovery), or their "elbow to the head" was an honest accident, which, should you wind up and flatten them in return, will almost certainly catch the unknowing offender off-guard and cause *them* to retaliate to *you*, with the same (or very similar) results of unproductive verbal pushing and shoving which benefits no one.

I name no names and am speaking to everyone, most of all myself.  It is my first impulse to strike back at anyone who irritates me, whether or not it was intentional.  This very nearly (and could still, if I am not vigilant) cost me my marriage.  This is something which I, personally, can no longer afford to do, and urge everyone I meet to strive for.

Thanks to everyone for their attention.  I certainly don't mean to "soap-box" here, and I apologize if my views are seen as inappropriate or unnecessary.  As always, just trying to help any way I can.

Peace,
Pelle
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Thank you Cindi, Happy Mothers Day to you to. It's 10:30pm here and I just got my boys to sleep, they are 10& 11. I don't know how old you are, I'm 43,  but I have learned that no matter how old you are, you will always miss your mother.  I'm sorry to here about your mother.  It's very painful,  especially on Holidays. My father died in 1988, just 1 year before my  son was born, he also died of lung and brain cancer, I named my son after him. Losing him was painful, and I  thought I would be better prepared for my mom's death, but......I  went to my parents grave today. My best friend since high school(who is also Cindy)  went with me. I have always gone, at least 2  a month, but today was the hardest it's ever been for me. I sat in the middle of Arlington Cemetary, and the last 4 years swept over me. I finally gave into my grief. I don't think I ever really cried, not like today.   Today I grieved for all the losses in my life. As I talked with my mom,  I saw my life and how she would have been so sad and unhappy  with my choices. She wanted so much more for me. She would beg me to never get involved with an alcoholic. My dad was one, and always so emotionally unavailable, distant and many times both verbally and mentally, including physically abusive to  her. I used  to wonder  what made her stay? Well as you know my ex was not an alcoholic but everything else. He was exactly  like my father, I have realized that through  counseling, I had fallen for this man, so I could try and change things, fix things, to make it right as my mother couldn't. And I stayed just like my mom did. We all look for things that are familiar, even the unhealthy  things.  My mom was a terrific woman, she came to this country from Germany during the 50's. It was so difficult for her, 3 small children, no money, she couldn't speak English, and my father somewhere in Korea, drinking and running around. Don't get me  wrong, I loved my father. It's taken the last 2 years for me to realize just how much I did love my mother. I always thought she was critizing  me, like I never did anything right, but I know now, she just didn't want me to make the same mistakes. But I did.  I loved this man for the past 5 1/2 years, as if I had loved him a lifetime.  To look at him, he  was nothing special, part asian, part black. Long hair, kinda scary looking. He has 4 kids he pays for, so he never had money, I even had to give him a car. He was so kind when I met him, I  just didn't know the extent or course his addictions would take. I stayed the last 2 years, no kissing, no  sex, no I Love You's. Just you F-ing *****, you  ugly old hag. I am no  where near ugly.  My self esteem did not exsist.  I am finally letting go, thank God for his grace, because I really thought there was no way out. I thought I would have a nervous breakdown when HE left. My youngest  came to me as I was crying 8 weeks ago, and calmly said (Mommie now  that he's gone, can we have you back) I  kid you not, I didn't notice 2 years had gone by, and  I had never been there for MY Kids. I thought I was the  worst mother in the world, to become so consumed and so obesessive about him and his addiction. So you see today I cried about the loss of my  mom, but most of all I cried that I had made my kids suffer an enormous loss. I prayed for my mom, and my kids to forgive me. And I made a vow this would never happen again. You  say you have respect for me, well believe me I haven't earned it yet, I'm just starting to respect myself again. I now consume myself with my kids, I've been to selfish in the past, and I have great kids, they have always protected me. I was very lucky with my  mom, she never had any pain, she eventually didn't know who we were, she was always in the garden in her mind, with her flowers and her angels. She did not suffer one bit. When she died she was so peaceful and at peace, and you can never ask for more than that. A  couple months before she died,we were sitting on her porch in Florida. She says to me, (Susan, my mother is here with me, you know she's my Guardian Angel) I said to my mom(just humoring her, because her mind was pretty far gone. (mom where is she now?  My mother says(oh she is always here, right beside me, she  watches and takes care of me, she never lets anything bad happen to me, just like I will when I die) Well Cindi, today I felt my mother  there,  not like I normally do.  I felt her all around me, and I knew than, no matter what I'd done, and no matter what I do in the future, she is always there watching, always protecting me.  She is my Guardian Angel....Just like you're mom, Cindi your mom is right here, right now, observing and keeping you safe, she will guide you and any decissions you make.  You will see, but pay attention.....how many times you will escape harm, and how many times something told you to  be careful. She will help you remember, you will never be the same....And now you have your own Guardian Angel...just remember before you make a choice about something, ask yourself what would my mom think or how would she feel about it......It will make your choices so, so much easier.  I'm glad we are friends now.  You  have added a new warmth and meaning to my life......Love Susan Lea
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even though I have not had the opportunity to correspond with you I have been reading everyone of your posts...whenever I decide to respond to you someone else jumps on and says what I wanted to say  LOL..but after reading your post just now I have to at least say that I admire  and respect you a great deal...you are a lady of sheer courage and strength..you have so much to deal with and by God you are doing it..Life does go on...this is something I have to learn   Life goes on...this was the first mother's day with out my mom  she died this past Christmas morning...to be honest,,,this past 5 months I have had to learn to grow up real fast and learn to live without my mom  she was always there for me..anyway,,,please hang in there and never give up...God is on your side,,,,,,happy Mohter's day      :)      cin
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Your response to  everyone was very inlightening! I really like the one you heard at a meeting about giving someone else the upper hand. If you don't mind I would like to use this in other areas of my life. Happy Mothers Day to all you moms out there.  This is my First Mothers Day without my ex, and the 4  after my Mother died, she died  June 4th 1997 of brain, lung  and breast cancer.  It was  just my 2 boys and me. It's a beautiful day here  in Virginia, I took them to brunch,  and we  did yard work(which is almost 40,000 square ft) I had to do it by myself, take care of this big house, 3 dogs(1 his 145lb puppy) and everything that goes along with it. I've  been really resentful having to do this for so long, pretty much since his addiction got so bad. Financially I don't know how I've been paying out over $3000 a month alone, since  he doesn't seem to care or want to help us. But you know, it's true, "God never gives you more, than you can handle". And you know it's really true.  We all come here for different reasons, and we all get something out of reaching out to others....and no  matter how bad things can be, when you just feel like giving up, and you feel you want to DIE>Well LOOK, we're ALL still here, we are still breathing, we are still apart of this physical universe, and we are all still wanting to get better and improve our lives. So there is hope, there is love, and there is a light at the end  of the tunnel.  God Bless all of you, everyone here has a special place in my heart. And for all you men with parteners, give them a big hug and kiss, and wish them a Happy Mothers Day, even if they aren't one. Show  them you love them............love Susan Lea
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I hope you take this the right way because I respect you a lot;
Extremely intelligent and compassionate comment, now I balance it by saying something really! dumb.

Now you told them the rules how we going to win???

"the enraged rationalist, will pursue all their lives the battle of the irrational"
                    Salvadore Dali

"the enraged irrationalist, will carry on like a complete dill and be quite entertaining"
                    Luke Edward
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Sorry, Spook. . .just couln't help it.  As a "recovering master agitator" myself, it just kinda happened.

Peace,
Pelle  (BTW, thank you, and I certainly will take this in the spirit in which it was intended)  :)
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Also. . .I quite liked your set of quotes.  Rationalism is often overrated.

Peace,
Pelle
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We are close in age,  I am 40 and my kids a boy 3 and a girl 7...
do not beat yourself up,,,We all make mistakes,we are human,,,I have read mostly all the posts you have written and I do admire your strength..all we can do in times like this is move forward...and yes I do respect you...for going on with your life and seeing where your mistakes were....in order to gain respect we must earn respect and for that NOT to happen is when we go and keeping repeating our same old obsessive behaviors...the addicts are not the only ones that are sick sometimes but the people that love addicts came become sick as well...start to learn to loce yourself hon because if you don't you cannot begin to love anyone in the true sense....you are the most important person without you being ok how will your boys be ok?  so....hold your head up high, go on and stop being so hard on yourself.....love cin
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You hit the nail on the head with your comment on ,"the addict isn't the only one who is sick". You could have been talking about me.  Myself....yes I became obsessed and addicted to him, and strange as it is, very textbook..I am an adult child of an Alcoholic parent....It's very real and very scarey. I am finding out, through theraphy, I have continued this relationship with my ex, because he was exactly like my Father. We as adults continue to try and change, to fix, to recreate what was familiar to us in childhood.  It could be very sick and insane, but unless we become aware of it....it will continue to go on and on.  I work every day at changing myself, my bad habits, my insane way of thinking and relating. And my attitudes. Right now I'm just taking the time to find out who I am, without a partner, what I want, what I need. And just loving and being there for my children..I didn't have an identity without him, I was so obsessed with him I had lost myself.. But I will find myself again, and I will be a better person, wife  and mother because of what I let happen to me. Thank you for your kind words and support.  Compulsion is such a nice thing to let go of.  Let Go and Let God........Goodnight.....Love Susan Lea
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I am behind you 110%.  You are a breath of fresh air.  Blessings are definately coming YOUR way.
Love ya sister,

Angelica*annie
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You are absolutely correct in what you say.  Was "that" comment invisible or what?  I noticed it, and so did you.  HELLOOOOOO
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Re: Invisible

That which is clearly viewed no longer exists.

That = he/she , as well as anything else

Love, Maria Seraphina
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I have just read many of your posts which I missed while I was gone and was distressed to hear of your seizure, but also gratified that you have found an employer who values your incredible and obvious talents, and that you have a wife who has supported you in your illness and recovery... I think you are called to a ministry Thomas...healing is a life time endeavor and you share it so naturally & selflessly. Thank you for your comment about the unraveling of psyche.... I needed some no nonsense wisdom... seems fitting that it came from you !!! Pssssssssssssst... I love you too :-))

Maria Seraphina
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The comments in this thread to Cindi, Anjelica, Pelle1985, Thomas and JB were intended to be posted in the thread below called "Anyone".... sorry about that... my eyes are having difficulty with all the scrolling !! Hope you will post your respones there instead of here... well... whatever :-))

Love, Maria Seraphina
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Dear Light Bearers,

Thank you for your kind comments which I just found in The Neverending Thread. I would reply in the same to each of you but to do so would only gild the lily. You know who you are and the truth is in your hearts.

RE: Removal of this thread. Why would anyone remove the main attraction ? The web master must find this very entertaining. I don't think there is much else that is entertaining about addiction.

Those who seem to be longest on memory are those who are neediest in terms of feeling worthy of love... they cannot close the chapter and continue to beg, finding every possible way to gain approval and attract limelight. It's a hallmark of addiction and not everyone seems to find healing from it.

Hard ,for me especially, but worth the effort is to choose peace.

( One way to begin practicing this is to ignore the assholes. It's an eartly exercise and does not require any cosmic consciouness to do it. )

Love, Maria Seraphina
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You are not missing a beat in your understanding and perceptions!!! ( In case you were having a few self doubts:-)) I was able to recognize myself at least :-)) It's evident those who wish to control cannot do it with you.  

Your take on issues is clearly a compassionate treatise... one that is of humility and recovery... a fine example for those who are getting it and worth looking at more closely  for those who are not.

I love your posts !!! Those of us who are not addicts are trying to recover also... Lea & Kerri have mentioned this so appropriately ( both here and in different threads)... thank you for always keeping the "recovery chord" alive here for us.

Love, Maria Seraphina

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Most unabashadely, I miss you most of all.

Love, Maria Seraphina
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Re: your 5/10 post, I hope you never leave.  Did you know that you have a fellow believer/sister here???  I remember when you first started posting.....I was one of the first to converse w/ you, and we are also chronic painers......LOL  Much in common.

We all aggree to disaggree, and as long as our comments are to help, and not to hurt....there is nothing wrong.  Our beliefs is what makes us all unique, and different......we all respect that, I would hope.  So, don't even think about leaving.  I share my beliefs w/ people from time to time, and if we disaggree......we find something else to discuss....LOL

I don't think anyone should refute what you have to say, esp. if it was not directed toward them.  Unless it's just good old fashion reciprocation of views/beliefs.....then that should be fine. I believe this is healthy......
Hope you keep coming back!
Love,
Angelica
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I was reading your comments about your feelings, and i feel like i can really relate to many things that you two feel.
I grew up in a disfunctional family, and have continued my adult life in many of the same ways that i learned to know as a child.
My children are 1, 5 and 8, and i really appreciate hearing the feelings of addiction as it relates to you as mothers.
Thank you, and i hope i didn't intrude in any way.
I just wanted to thank you both for making me feel 'not so alone'!
Good luck to you both, you are very special women!
Lv Jenny
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Cin, Did you have to mention robbie....LOL  My speakers are blown in my car.  I have to get them fixed, and soon.  I miss listening to the radio, it makes the drive much better. LOL
Wiz: you are so full of life, and what an inspiration you are!  You are definately a nice addition to this board.  You are very supportive.
Love YALL,
Angelica
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Wow! Thanks for the kudos :-) People like you and all my friends here are the ones that desrve the pat on the backs.( you ALL know who you are) I couldn't have done it without ya! The best therapy for me is coming back here daily and keeping IN TOUCH. I havent been in touch for many years.....Now i cant's touch enough! LOL
power & Magick 2 U,
God Bless us all,
luv,
Wiz
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I too am so glad you decided to stay...we all are able to help to help each other...and you are a valuable asset to his forum...and I do know from what you have told me that you benefit from coming here also...why stop a good thing? we are all in this together...I have to go and pamper myself now,,LOL   gotta get my nails done  LOL my one luxury   besides my foot messager I got from Mother's day  LOL  ohhh  Lala talk about a treat..ain't it funny how our priorites change as we get older  LOL  it used to be I would die for a little red sports car but now a foot message and a back message is like heaven  LOL my foot messager even has tiny bubbles and little rolly thingies on the bottom and heat   now, throw in George clooney and Robbie Thomas  (angelica and Brighty can relate to each) and man   we are ready to roll baby..LOL   so  after my nails i will come home and hop on and see if we can catch up,,,,,hang in there my friend  and like always  if you need me you know where I am.....HEY ANGELICA... thanks for the important message e-mail   scary huh?  I will catch up to you alos later  Love all of you guys
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So glad you decided to stay !! I have been around here since April 2000 and never have stayed on a forum too long... once for maybe 5 months and that was eons ago. This forum is different.... informative and caring... people who are suffering, have suffered and those in recovery offering hope and concrete advice.. helping others detox... telling them what to expect... been there done that.. and never with arrogance...always with tolerance and compassion. I hope you realize that my daughter too is an addict... she is 22 now and clean 14 months... a milestone after 3 nightmarish years which included institutions and jail... and nearly death numerous times... so if I have to say it over and over for newcomers.. thre is HOPE and HEALING. I have followed here Thomas and his detox from a 30 year opiate addiction.... that is awesome and inspiring... and there is more revealed here. I have heard it before and now know for sure.. addicts in recovery are the light bearers of the world. It bears out over and over again, here on the board and in our personal lives. Keep reading and praying and taking the right actions.... things will change ... it takes time.. it's a process. I wish you health and peace.

Love, Brighty
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Dear Angelica,Cindi,Wizard,Dianne,Leah,Brighty,and everyone ,
   I tried to recall each name because each one of you have made an impact in my life in one way or another. This week some of you have made the extra effort to write to a woman that had decided to stay off the threads. Because of your words of encouragement I have decided I do need to stay. I need your help more than you can know at times.If you guys can stay around after all you've been through, I can do it too.
    Thank you Angelica and Cindi.You probley don't know how much you've helped me.To all of you that have kept me in your prayers I thank you. I am going to need them a lot in the days ahead. I'm going through a lot of testing now and it really gets to me. Some of you may remember I have bad health and chronic pain. Angelica ,I do remember you responding when I first came here.I was taken back by all you've been through and I know your pain is a daily struggle. I appreciated you trying to help me with all your going through. Cindi,I appreciate so much your honesty with me about you and your mom. I know you understand the hard time I have saying no to my daughter but you are helping me do just that. I can find the strength through God and friends like all of you. We can help one another.That's why I came here night after night and why I keep coming back. I guess that's why I let the thing with someone else get to me so bad. But I'll try not to let that happen again.
  Please remember me this week and next week in your prayers. My doctors are all out of town and it's difficult for me to go on trips like this even though their anywhere from 30 min. to 2 hours away.
  My daughter was so out of it yesterday her husband couldn't get her awake to open the door.She says she hadn't taken too much med but I know better.If any of you have tried the herbal thing when you were getting off the drugs ,would you tell me how and what you used? I'd like to offer her this option to see if she'll try it.
  Wizard, I want to tell you how PROUD I am of you for getting off the drugs. Pat yourself on the back. You all deserve it!!!!!!
  I will close now.Sorry I write so much but you are my only way of letting it out sometimes.
   God Bless and Thank You All,
            Kerrie
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It's called something like "Barretts order" "Butler" "Barnet" something like that. I'll find out the name, my brother in law is a circut court judge, 6th district. If you have to, if you really feel she's a danger to herself, or your grandchildren, you can have her put into a 28 day program. State will pay for it, and if she's working, they have to allow her time off, vacation and sick leave can be used, if none without pay and she can't lose her job. They can not ask where she is, where she's going, and for what. She can tell them to stick it! Let me know......Love Susan
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Hi Brighty,
  I wanted to ask you about your daughter. Mine is 22 also. She'll be 23 in June.
  She is addicted to Hydrocodones and Zanex. I'm sure I didn't spell that right. But she also takes percocet and midrin and fiorinol. I know I'm not spelling right but just sound them out.I worry because she takes so much at a time. I've given her all the warnings I have been given from my friends here.
   How did your daughter decide to get clean. My daughter says she wants to go to rehab but that it's embarrassing to admit you have a problem and everyone find out. She knows all the family knows she's hooked. I tell her they love her and they will be proud of her for getting help.
   I worry about my grandchildren. I take care of the 4 year old a lot. But I'm not physicaly able to take care of the baby. He weighs about 17 pounds and I don't have much strength in my arms because of surgery to remove a large cyst off my spinalcord on my  cervical spine area. But when she was here the other day she was very tired. I asked her had she took too many pills and she swore she hadn't. Then her husband called and said she didn't pick him up from work and when he got home she was so out of it she couldn't hear him banging on the door. I had the 4 year old but the baby was with her. I was so upset that I hadn't kept him too. But I can't watch her every second.
  If you have any ideas I would love to hear them. I'll keep you in my prayers.
  Now to all my friends ,thanks again for being there. I'll write you more later. I'm tired after going to hospital today for scope. Love to all and God Bless.
        Kerrie
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I cannot recall the circumstances from when you first posted not too long ago... if at all possible your married daughter and her children belong together with the husband and daddy of these kids... you are a saint and I'm afraid, soon to be a martyr... I have a couple of years on you and have not had to deal with the serious health problems you have... you need to take care of yourself.. .living with this addiction is like living under Mt. Vesuvius.... it's emotionally volatile, mentally taxing, and your health may not withstand too much more of this. Physically, you really ought not be handling child care under any circumstances... do you have a plan, Kerrie ??  I know one thing... you will not be able to do much about her addiction... she has to do it... if you make it tough on her perhaps she'll handle it. My story is not identical... my daugher started with heroin at 18... she already had, unknown to me, a xanax addiction from rx for her panic and anxiety disorder... this helped spiral her into getting used to getting drugs from other places than the doctors.. and she was apparently snowballing a few of them... it was a 3 year nightmare... she did numerous detox and rehab facitities, got in trouble with the law, went to jail, got out and was still using in her pre-trial intervention program... had been trying to commit suicide.. 7 attempts in 3 years.. yes, mental hospitals too, and finally the judge heard she didn't show up in court because she was on life support... she (the judge) listened to an impassioned plea in open court from her dad and I to please revoke her bail and lock her up because we did not know how else to keep her alive.. she went to jail after a long hospital stay and a mental ward to stabilize her.. she was then mandated to a long term treatment in a primarily mental health treatment program.. after 5 months she "snapped to" so to speak and chose to begin her healing.. She came home last Christmas and is on house arrest for 2 years.. monitor on her ankle... will be followed by probation for another 2 years... she's active in recovery but there have been a few bumps with the behaviors and romanticizing the drug... all part of the journey I'm told.. she did 5 days out patient from Dec. to March.. 3 days thru April and now is down to one day a week and must do for no less than one year.. this is important.. to continue to work on the underlying issues, and staying with a recovery program... it's been very hard, Kerrie.

Your daughter may be comforted to know that at her first rehab she met the high school foot ball coach.. they promised to not tell anyone they saw eachother there. There is a sacredness to the confidentiality in treatment programs ... I have seen the inside of nearly every treatment center from Philadelphia to Florida... she did 9 of them !!! There is nothing to be embarassed over... there are doctors and nurses in treatment as well as people of all races and ages.. all career backgrounds... we met one 73 year old lady who had been widowed 8 months before... she finally decided to quit drinking after reflecting the impact it had on her family for so many years.. that takes courage. I hope your daughter will not deprive herself of at least giving it a try. I will send you healing prayers.

Love, Brighty

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Hi Brighty,
    I appreciate you answering back. I need all the help I can get with her.
    My daughter started out taking the pills for migrains.Then she liked the high and quickly started to misuse them.She is doing marajuana ,xanex,percocet,and afew others I can't spell. But you get the picture. The thing is, she can convince the doctors to give her more and increase the strength.She just went to the doctor last week. A girl that knew her had called the doctor and reported her and she convinced him the girl was lying.He increased her meds and the strength. I told her she had better use them right because she would not be geting anymore from me. I always hide them when I know she's coming over.I don't ever see her except when she wants something though.
  She was in jail in May of last year for having drugs without a prescription when they were stopped in Georgia for a broke windshield. The cops could tell they were messed up and searched their car and each person. She had 10 valuim on her and 2 xanex.Her brother-in-law had pot in his suitcase. So they were arrested. She spent a week in jail. She went to court in December and they gave her 3 years probation and an 1800.00 fine. They are suppose to transfer her probation to Tennessee.So far it hasn't been transfered. But she is still doing the pot too. If they do a random drug test on her she will go to jail.She doesn't think they'll do anything.I've tried to tell her they'll send her to Georgia to serve out her probation but she doesn't believe me. I've put it in Gods hands. I can't make her listen.
  She too has tried to kill herself. She ran her truck into a tree when she was 5 months pregnant.She has sliced her arms up with a razor. She put her hand through a fish tank when she was mad at her husband. I fear for her life. But I have worried until I am sick. I can't turn it over to God and then take it back. So pray I don't fall back into trying to fix it myself. I know it's out of my power. Thanks to everyone here, I'm trying to be there for her without helping her problem by giving her my pills.I am not able to bail her out of jail if it comes to that. I know it will come to that yet. I'd rather it be that than her life.
  Keep me in your prayers friends.
    Kerrie
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WAY TO GO GIRL !!!!!!!!!!!! You have made the first big step. You confronted him with the truth. Of course he's going to say he can do it on his own. My brother has said it for years.He is such a hard worker. But he gets paid daily so he can get his alcohol and drugs. I love him dearly but I don't buy into any of his lies or fall for his tears. I've seen and heard it since we were kids at home.
  If he was addicted when he was living with his kids, there's probley a lot you'll never know. I bet if you asked him though, none of it was his fault.
  You done good girl. Hang in there. I'm rooting for you.
  I appreciate your kindness  about the baby I had that died. It's been 27 years ago but it's the kind of thing that stays with you in life. She was born without joints in her body. If she had lived she would of been in a nursing home unable to do anything for herself. I thank God for taking her home.She was beautiful though.Very red hair. God knows whats best for us even though we can't see it for the pain at times.
   God Bless You,
        Kerrie  (P.S.) Kerrie was the name of my daughter.
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Your story reaches the depths of my soul. I will pray for your family... and those innocent babies. As you said you can't make her change... nobody on this earth can make an addict change except themselves... often it simply has to be enough suffering... sometimes this is jail. I NEVER EVER believe people on drugs belong in jail.. it is not treatment, not by any standards. But if the down time gets a person to decide to make changes then to some degree it may be the catalyst for change... then it was worthwhile. I am convinced that the xanax, not the opites, is the bigger problem in terms of her irrational and destructive behavior.... it's one of the worst drugs out there.. it's binds very quickly and very tightly to receptors in the brain... it is also a powerful amnesiac and causes varying degrees of psychosis. This is not a drug that a person can detox from at home... it is a very dangerous withdrawl and can cause seizures and death. I hope you talk to Thomas about some of the effects... she MUST go to detox facility to be tapered correctly... the oxy's are bad enough on their own but with xanax it's like gasoline and matches... I'm afraid.. it gives me chills because I remember how totally irrational my daughter was on that stuff...if she does not come to her senses I am afraid she will end up in the jail again... but honesly, having been there... it was so horribly painful... it was the only place she was slowed down to become abstinent and finally got her brain to work again... sad huh ??? You have many many prayers.

Love, Brighty

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Thank you for your post. It's been a crazy 3 days. He did come over tonite, but I still don't know why? He didn't have dinner, he just sat there, he talked alittle, watched tv and left. At first he was a little jumpy and edgy. We got into it just alittle. He stills says his addiction had nothing to do with the problems. That it was me trying to control everything. I told him what I had found thru AL-ANON, that we become unmanageable, because of the insanity of the disease, we become obsessive, compulsive, we become out of control. I told him I felt helpless, that I could not control his addictions, and that when he was abusing, I coudln't take the distance, emotional withdrawal, the lack of affection. I told him it all made me crazy, not the person I really am. I asked him if he was still using methadone, he is, says 10 to 15 mgs. aday. But he doesn't look healthy, no color, alittle heavy. He says he always has headaches. That he's tired all the time, all he does is go to work and home to sleep. Nothing else, he doesn't go out. He says he just wants to get his act together, I wish him all the luck in the world. I asked him if he planned to go to NA meetings, get a sponser,counseling, something. He said no, he has it under control and doesn't need anything, or anyones help. He can do it on his own. Is he just fooling himself here? I don't see him able to do it, he's tried that numberous times. He asked me if I had something for his headaches, I said sure TYLENOL,I told him I nolonger take pills. He saw my patch, and asked me for one, things don't change. I finally realized in my heart and my head. I can't help him, I finally can accept it, and not just say it. It's out of my hands. The scariest thing, is what if he's right, what if the problems were not because of the addiction. That would make him a very mean and emotionally empty creature. I don't think I would love him then. What if he's just really like this now. He got alittle nicer after awhile, just talked, but I actually say him laugh, it's been a long time. When he left, he said he would come by again. What's this about? We can't just co-exsist like this, what does he want from this? I guess it's hard for him to let go too. Everyone forgot his birthday but me. What did he do to his kids, to make them not want to be with, or see him, they care so little for him, what did he do to them? Theres' more to this story than I know, maybe he's always been like this......Love Susan Lea
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Thanks  for your reply. I was caught by what you asid about the xanex.My daughter has been forgetting a lot of things and remembering things that never happened.
  She would tell me one thing and swear she never said it and call me a liar for making it up. Then she would convince herself of things that never happened.
  Could this be due to the xanex? This drug is new to me. I'd like anything you can tell me about it. Also about the withdrawel symptoms. I want to pass this on to her.
  Thanks again.
      Kerrie
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Hi Leah,

Check out my postings to niccee about methadone witdrawl.
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I did check out your posting to niccee about methadone...not sure you really meant it or me.....could you have meant it for Lea? Anyway, the information is helpful and can always be passed on to help any person with this problem..Thanks
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Hi Leah,

I posted it to you as you have a child on drugs and wanted help with that. This cure works for all drugs - not just methadone as the root cause is zinc/mag depletion. If you have any doubts get the person to have a blood test and you will find they have virtualy no zinc/mag in their blood.
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Ok....gotcha!! I just reread your message and I understand what you are trying to tell me.. It is 2:40 AM now and I'm too tired to think this moring. I will answer your post in a day or two with some questions. I found out only tonight that the daughter is taking valium at night to sleep(she says) and iburprofen. Alcohol sometimes along with the meds. Thank You for your help.

LEAH
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HI  To  all  i  have  been  reading  all  these  forums.  you  all  seem  so  caring  and  nice  .  i  have  been  fighting  a  9  year  battle  with  my  son.  he  has  done  every  drug  you  have  heard  of.  his  choise  now  is  black  tar  heroin.  he  has  been  in  and  out  of  jail,  he  has  a  job  now  and  a  house  a  wife  and  a  7  and  4  year  old  girls. he  cleaned  up  for  a  few  months  about  2  years  ago.  after  his  last  trip  to  jail.  but  slowly  he  has  been  going  under  and  his  wife  uses  to,  they  have  sold  most  of  there  stuff  in  the  house  behind  on  bills.  and  the  kids  are  just  there  i am  heart  broken  i  worry  they  will  end  up  dead   i  want  to  take  the  kids  but  my  husband  and i  are  not  able  to  take  on  to  small  kids.  the  7  year  old  tells  me  everything  she  hides  a  watches  them  they  fight  and  she  looks  for  any  where  to  go  stay, my  son  is  a  good  person  but  he  has  let  the  drugs  rule  him.  he  only  cares  about  himself  i  have  tried  everything  he  has  been  to  rehabs  net care,  and   he  admits  the  problem  some times.  but  most  times  he  will  say  hes  clean  but  i  can  see  he   is  not.  he  has  went  from  260  down  to  220  in  the  past  6  months,  bt  he  eats  good.  i  have  thought  of  leaving  my  home of  34  years  i  have  thought  of  taking  my  life  because  i  dont  want  him  to  die  before  me,  i  just  want  him   to  take  care  of  his  kids  and  let  me  have  peace  for  awhile.  theres  so   much  more  but  i  need  advice   thanks  from  broken  heart  grandma.
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