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How to help/deal with a loved one with a drug problem
by Leah, Apr 29, 2001 12:00AM
I feel like I'm at the end of my rope! Having a heart condition (open heart surgery) recently, the stress of dealing with a unhappy child on drugs and knowing what to do for them,the right way to handle the situation, and not cause them more trouble is
becoming more difficult each day. Question, do I keep calm and agree with them, listen to there problems,or get angry and shout and say "you have to help yourself first"? Please give me any advice so I will do the right thing. Thank You!
becoming more difficult each day. Question, do I keep calm and agree with them, listen to there problems,or get angry and shout and say "you have to help yourself first"? Please give me any advice so I will do the right thing. Thank You!
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Peace,
Pelle
I do not think anger helps you or the child,but it seems to be a natural response.
Now realize that one should attempt to gain control over their emotions by their intellect and using your will to do so and if you are lucky enough drawing upon your God to do so.
So I think the best way to approach the problem is with more thought and less of this emotion,"anger".
One must have intent in mind, to survive this situation, otherwise one may unintentionally do more harm than good, to both child and yourself.
but how do you fix both problems?, well you use your will to dipense with the anger,get rid of it,no good.
The Drug problem is difficult as you have given no specifics, but did the anger preceed it?, where you always angry?, has the anger any relationship to the drug problem other than that it occured as a response to it?.
This is a start at least.
I am a 30-year-long prescription narcotic addict. Thank god and AA, I have enjoyed a period going-on three months free of narcotics. It doesn't sound like much in some ways, but it's opened my heart to others suffering from my same disease, while also hardening my heart toward addicts that are so caught up in their habits that they ignore the needs of a family member in dire need, such as in your case. Give your child hard choices. No wiggle room. No excuses. And you don't need to do it in anything but a calm, firm voice. For that matter, for moral support and understanding when you do it, first contact AA and ask for some members to come over and help you say what you need to say to this child. Believe me, call AA and you'll get a friendly, welcoming voice on the other end of the phone, with several fellow members ready to come over to your house right away. Needless to say, it's all-free and, believe me, very effective. Good luck with your heart problems, Leah. Take care of yourself.
P.S. Just remember, coming from the voice of experience: when an addict's addiction is "in full bloom," there is no room in their hearts for anything but their own needs. It's not that they're evil - they can start out being church-going, charity-giving pillars of the community. However, hard narcotics like heroin, speed (meth) or cocaine affect the human brain in ways that simply overwhelm all the good breeding or family upbringing in the world. NO ONE can withstand the effects of these drugs. Additionally, for some individuals, the same is true for the effects of alcohol. Don't delude yourself: even if you didn't have heart problems, your child's addictions would be too much for you to handle effectively.
To contact AA, you can either try your local Yellow Pages, or, perhaps, the directory at the following web address will have the number you need:
http://www.aa.org/CtrOff_d1.html
Best of Luck!
Thomas
His commentary is the Kick Ass truth right on down to the business of the will. Addiction is the most self centered condition on earth and will see you into your grave... until an addict suffers enough they are lost in a world of darkness and self destruction... and there is tremendous hope because my child was on heroin using a needle 8-10 times a day and now she is like an angel from heaven..... she had to suffer enough and try desperately to die before she was able to make an attempt at healing. If you do exactly, all that Thomas says. you will save yourself and create a situation where your child may eventually choose the healing that he/she deserves. But don't think you can do it your way... you were just given a treasure map... now please follow it. I have been there and Thomas is right.
Love, Brighty
Hi. I came to this forum several weeks ago as you have. I was looking for advice on how to help my daughter ,age 22,that is an addict. The people on this forum are great help to each other and also to me. I too have a serious health problem.My daughter lived with me along with her husband and a four year old and a baby.I tried talking to her. Begging her.Telling her all the dangers and being there for her. All I got back was ,"tend to your own life,not mine." I came to this forum and was told what to look for and what to exspect. I was given advice and lifted up when I was down.
My daughter had it made here. They paid no rent. Didn't help with groceries.Didn't help with the chores and I took care of the four year old when she went out,which was often.Then I remembered this is my home! So I told her,respect me and your father,help where you can and I'll always be here for you.GET HELP! She didn't have a problem. She really didn't. She took her pain meds in a couple of days and then hit mine and I would end up doing without.I didn't think things could get worse but they did. She became not only disrespectful but started cussing her father and me out whenever she felt like it. Final straw. I realized I was being the co-dependant. I was making it possible for her to get her drugs. She could buy then when her prescriptions ran out because she didn't have to pay for anything.With strength from God and words of wisdom from the people on this forum, the next time she cussed us out, I through her out. Yes ,kids and husband too. I knew they had the money to get an apartment.If they didn't they could sleep in the car. I knew she loved the kids too much to let them be hurt.So they did get an apartment and she promised she would never speak to me again.Within in 2 days she was talking. It's been 2 weeks now and they are making it.She approached me for the first time last week about rehab . She's on probation and afraid she'll go to jail if she doesn't get help. She's right.Now she has to do it or spend 3 years in jail if she breaks her probation. Whatever happens,she's in controll of it.I have a book called tough love. I knew what I should do but couldn't for fear of what would happen to her. That's why it's called tough love.Don't let her destroy you like I almost let my daughter do to me and my husband. If she is a minor,get her put on probation.Here we have a program that helps minors and parents.Sorry this is so long but do talk to the people on this forum.They care.Don't get scared off when the conversation gets strange. I nearly did but was patient and realized they know each other well enough to speak their mind and still care about each other.
God Bless,
Kerrie
How am I doing ??????????????????? You're not following the neverendingthread ??? It's a totally whigged out thread and it has been a ghastly experience.
Love, Brighty
I really feel you are right about getting support from one of the groups mentioned. I think I knew this all along, but it is scary because it makes one face the situation and no longer believe it will go away any day. My daughter is a grown women in her forties, with five children. I guess, because we have always been so close and supportive of each other, I feel like it is a betrayal. I have carried this alone for so long! I know know that I'm not alone.......thank you for your prayers and best wishes. Mine also go along with you.
LEAH
Hope you don't mind my asking, but once before you mentioned to me about your mothers death and the pain your in. My mother passed away 1 year ago as of May 2nd. Yep, right before mothers day. I've had to hold in a lot of the pain of her death as my sisters aren't able to talk about it yet.She was in a lot of pain. Anyway, if you need to talk you can e-mail me at:
***@****. Sometimes it helps to go through things with someone whose going through it too.
Spook,brightly,Thomas,Annie, all of you,the way you help people that come to this forum looking for answers is to be commended. I only wish I could get my daughter to talk to all of you. Your concern is appreciated from this 44 year old mother and grandmother of 9.I just wanted to thank you all. There's a lot of good in yall.Remember that when someone tries to put you down,they doing it because their weak. You do help people here. I know.
Thanks , Kerrie
I have to go now.......Dee, if your reading this, I didn't forget about you. I wish you well, also.
And I take that final breath;
I want to know I've left behind,
Some "good" before my death.
I hope that in my final hour,
In all honesty I can say:
That somewhere in my lifetime,
I have brightened someone's day.That maybe I have brought a smile
To someone else's face,And made one moment a little sweeter
While they dwelled here in this place.Lord, please be my reminder
And whisper softly in my ear ...
To be a "giver," not a "taker,"
In the years I have left here. Give to me the strength I need,
Open up my mind and my soul
That I might show sincere compassion,
And love to others before I go.For if not a heart be touched by me,And not a smile was left behind ...
Then the life that I am blessed with,
Will have been a waste of time.With all my heart, I truly hope
To leave something here on earth ...
That touched another, made them smile
And gave to my life ... worth.
~ Author Unknown ~
Luke
p.s Cindi-hello, you are kind person.
Without you knowing any of the specifics, I can only tell you my anger started with her having a boy friend that was doing drugs long before she knew him.He has been a bad influence and I feel she would not have made these bad choices if he had not taken advantage of her low self esteem. This is the best way I can answer your question about the anger. You have given me something to really think about and yes,it is a start. Thanks for your insight and I will bbe posting again.
The main reason you are feeling worse is because you are currently doing the house thingy, that is a *******, I would say ***** but it really is a ******* as all of the memories are in there ,this is probably one of the hardest things you will have to do, I sat in my mothers house and imagined it without her and it felt empty, I know the feeling but just have not been there yet, it must be really bad right now, you have come to the right place as many caring people are here for you, you do not need a councilor, and I will push you back from any dangerous edges you approach, it is your friend here who will help you.Try not to think about the physics of post life consciousness remanifestation, as God deals with this and everthing is in good hands, you do believe don`t you?.You have made a beggining now and I think if you need strength to carry on a place to find it.
sincerely spook
Brief history of my parents: father died in 1992, suddenly though not really unexpectedly. I was introduced to painkillers at home by him (Tylenol 4) and he was addicted for at least 10 years that I knew of. After a heart procedure 1n March of 1992, he arrested in the hospital and his heart was restarted three times. He lasted 24 days on a ventilator and then died. This was the most awful thing I have ever experienced and was a period of my highest drug use.
I then went into the field of geriatrics and began working with the elderly, many of whom were Alzheimer's patients. I prayed all that time that my mother would never acquire that disease.
She was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease in 1998 at the age of 70. She continued to be able to live at home until this January, when her wandering and lack of personal care forced my brother and I to move her to a long-term care facility.
And now, my family home is empty. In order for her to qualify for residence where she now lives, my brother and I must sell the home. This will be taking place very soon now, within the next few months. I dread going back there, to a house that was *never* empty, and cleaning out and taking the things I wish to have from my childhood. Aside from my father's death and my mother's diagnosis, I think that this task, along with the demolition of the home itself which is to follow, will be one of the most painful experiences of my life. I don't know how similar this is to your situation, but I just wanted you to know that, in my own way, I can understand a bit of what you're going through and share some of your sorrow.
Peace,
Pelle
It's very strange how similar some aspects of our stories are. . .the evening my father passed away was one of the only days I did not get in to see him. Every single one of my previous trips ended with me stopping in the hospital's visitor restroom (I can still remember how it smelled, faintly of disinfectant, and sterile), and crying for twenty minutes or so before emerging to drive home (and this after uncountable Vicodins!) I hated going to see him like that and I hated myself for feeling that way, and for the relief I felt when he finally did die. I remember the hospital calling that evening and telling us to come in but not to hurry. Of course, I knew that meant only one thing. Still, to arrive and see him was something I will never forget. They had disconnected him from the vent and all the other monitors and machines which had filled the room for the past twenty-four days. The room seemed so still and quiet. And my father, disconnected from everything, looked so much more peaceful. Although he could not speak during his suffering (because of the trach tube), I could see from his eyes that he was alert during his periods of wakefulness (which grew mercifully shorter as time went on) and -- this is the worst part -- aware of his situation. He never would have wanted to be alive that way.
The point is, Cindi, that for years I felt that I had somehow let him down by not being there when he died, and especially for not visiting him that day at all. I hated myself for that and so many other things. . .my failures, my addictions, my chronic weirdness (for lack of a better term), and for the fact that on some level I still hated my father for introducing me to drugs as a teenager and for giving me the genetic predisposition to addiction in the first place.
All of these hatreds allowed -- indeed, encouraged -- me to continue to use. Because what is addiction, as has been said before, but the slowest, most torturous method of suicide possible? I believed myself unworthy to live, and since I would need two hands to crucify myself, I chose instead to break myself upon the cross of drugs. Please understand that I am in no way comparing myself to Jesus. This is just the metaphor which comes most readily to my mind as far as the most extreme method of torture that I can imagine.
I said all that only to say this to you: you must not hate yourself for your decision. I could give you many reasons -- your mother was not aware anyway (the hospital staff told you as much); the weather was horrible; your kids and your grandmother needed you more at home with them at such a trying time; and many more I'm sure I could think of given world enough and time. But the main reason I have, and it sounded in my heart as soon as I read your post, is twofold, and goes something like this:
hatred for yourself can only lead you further into addiction and eventual death, and most importantly. . .*your mom would not want you to feel this way*. What mother would wish to see her child in agony, even for a moment, and especially if it was over something which concerned them? And what mother would want to be a part of their own beloved child's destruction?
I hope I am not being presumptuous, but all I am telling you is the strong, almost overwhelming emotional resonance I got upon reading your post. I do not claim to be a psychic, like Miss Cleo, or anyone who communes with the dead, but my feelings about things like this have been accurate my entire life. I operate best in the realm of the not-quite-seen, but imagined, and am most comfortable with the language of the heart. This is how I finally came to believe that the last thing that my dad would want is for me to go on abusing myself, especially over things he had done. If it were me who had gone on, and I saw my own beautiful son (who is now but five months old) destroying himself over things I had done, I believe I would voluntarily leave heaven (if I had been there at all) and enter hell to await him so that I could one day apologize and -- perhaps -- earn his forgiveness.
Please accept this message in the spirit it was intended. . .perhaps rambling, fanciful, even a little mad, if you do not believe in such things as I have spoken of -- but know it is from my own human heart, a place which frequently makes no sense in the mortal realm in which we live.
Your mom is watching you even now, Cindi -- and she awaits the day when her little girl will be well again and you and she can rejoice together.
Peace,
Pelle
The above posts are the essence of our humanity.. birth, our lives, death, renewal... an eternal cycle...and in the life cycle we are sometimes lucky to live long enough to have an awakening...we've finally lived long enough that something we never thought about has happened.... to me this is a turning point where we are stripped naked and realize we are not our careers, not our worldly goods, not invincible, ... we are maybe for the first time learning about how mortal we are... how very tiny we are in this huge universe... alone in the houses with our childhood memories ,hearing all the voices,reliving all the joys, and all the regrets, wondering how we got this way, how it all happened in the blink of an eye and will the pain ever be eased. I don't know if many us ever get a handle on what this is all about....maybe that's why we seem to have a commonality...we seem to get to a particular chronological age and we begin to have more appreciation, more compassion, more empathy, we still forget and fall on our faces but are more willing to yield, more willing to be humble and maybe a bit better prepared for the next milestone. We still have time to do thing a bit better to not be so cavalier, so self serving. Maybe this is why grandparents are often so different than they were with their own children... it's like another chance to do it right. Reading the posts between Cindi and Pelle has been the finest dialogue I have seen here in the past year and it is very very much addiction medicine, it is also addiction healing. It's very evident to me that Luke came here and gave us permission to be who we really are and we have come from being boxed up question and answer group to an open forum... sort of appropriate I think. Whenever I go to mass it seems I am always at the one when they do the sermon of the Prodigal Son..( you can tell how often I go !!:-)) I have always wondered if the son were to tell his/her story what it would be...I think it has been told here today. As the mother of an addict and the daughter of a dad with Alzheimers I have listened to your stories and felt every emotion and cried every tear along with you. You are continually providing the healing that I so desperately seek. Thank you both so very much. Love, Maria
Must go.Need time
I have not told my best friend's or family members about this problem.
Congrat on your period of almost three months free of drugs and I wish you sincerely the strength to continue. I do intend to seek help with AA or one of the rehab centers soon.
With your experience, I know you can understand what I'm feeling and the questions that I need to have answered. I never felt for a moment that things said or done was comming from being evil.
I will be reading you post over and over when I need to do the right thing. Good Luck to you and God Bless. Lea
I just wanted to say I think it's important for people to share their pain with others. As for me,sometimes this is my only outlet. I have written to Cindi about a lot I'm going through in hopes we might help each other. I see that there are a few of us with the same guilt of not being with a parent when they passed away. I had left my father after his heart surgery, knowing in my heart he wouldn't make it. But at the insistance of everyone I went home. He died and my mother was at the hospital,2 hours away, alone. I had the guilt of not being there with him or her. I know now,nothing would of changed by my being there. But I wouldn't of nearly died from the guilt I felt. I would of course felt guilt from something though. That's how our minds work. Not our hearts. We all had good reasons why we weren't there but like I told Cindi, ours minds don't tell our hearts it's o.k. I had to forgive myself like someone wisely said earlier.
I know for some that the drugs probley were a problem during times like these. I know how that is too. You just didn't want to hurt so bad. You wanted something to fill the emptiness in the middle of your heart. My sister that is an addict, got a prescription for valium 10 mg. from my mothers doctor when my mom was dying. He knew all of us and wanted to give us something to help us calm down. She got them filled and took a lot . She couldn't talk or walk and finally passed out. We got the pills and hid them from her. She called the law on us. This at the hospital with my mom on her death bed. The doctor had her escorted off the grounds. The next day she begged the hospital administrator to let her come back. He left it up to us. We forgave her and wanted her there. She just didn't want to hurt. She didn't want to feel anything. I understand how she felt. But be strong and don't let this happen to any of you. Your doing great. I keep up with your progress daily and care for all of you.
I only wish my daughter would face her monsters and seek help like so many here have. Keep talking friends. Keep the faith.You are all in my prayers. Even if you didn't ask for them.
Kerrie
Peace and God's Love to you Cindi,
Love the Wiz!
or blame myself for turning off the life support when the Hospice people told me it was doing no good. I keep thinking would he have woken up for another day with me? But then God tells me no I only ended his suffering.....but it's a BIG hole in my heart that I don't think all the opium in the world could fill....Heaven knows I tried...but I really DO BELIEVE God will only give us what we can handle with his help. I'm so very sorry about your loss. She must have loved you very much and you her.
It's okay to cry and let go. I am what I consider a very macho
guy and I'm crying like a baby right now as I write this. I'm crying for the both of us. I feel your pain as I relive mine.
Don't despair and NEVER give up hope.
We all love you,
God Bless you,
love Wizard
I read your postings and wanted to say a few things. I've written Cindi a lot the last few days.We too have a lot in common. What I wanted to say was this. I carry the guilt of talking my father into having his heart surgery and leaving him after the surgery being told he was doing great and knowing better in my heart. He died two hours after I left the hospital.I talked him into the surgery. He told me he knew he was going to die. I thought I would die everytime my mom would say "I'm so glad I didn't ask him to have the surgery." Would he still be alive if he hadn't had the surgery? The doctors say he would of died within days for sure without it. It was his only chance. But I talked him into it. I nearly died after his death. I too thought I had lost my faith. But I was in so much pain because of loosing him,that I couldn't tell God was holding me together. Why didn't I take my life when I felt it was the only way to escape the pain. Because my faith kept me holding on even though I couldn't feel anything but sorrow and guilt. Like Wizard said, God big arms. They were around me keeping me safe even though I didn't feel his presence. Like the song says,"He was there all the time". I'm thankful I can see that now so I can assure others that are feeling the emptiness, your faith doesn't leave you. Your just in mourning. It's like the poem says,when there is only one set of foot prints in the sand it's because God is carrying you. We may not see it at the time but like a wise man once said,time really does make a difference. Your in my prayers.
Kerrie
Hope tells me you all will still be here at all points af my journey back from the "Dragons" pit....as I sit here late on the eve of my 7th day yet again the "Dragon" whispered in my ear.....only this time it was fainter.....with your love and support.....I SHUT THE ******* UP AGAIN! lol May God shed his everlasting light upon us all!!
LOVE and PEACE to all,
Wizard
My friend. The dragon is strong but your stronger. 7 days is great. I wish my daughter was 7 days without drugs. I wish she wanted to be clean. I'm proud of everyone in this forum. I'm sure they'll be more help to you than me. I came looking for help for my daughter and never knew how much I would be helped. I've cried with people in mental and physical pain. I know both. I could just as easy be one of you. I don't know why I don't have a problem with the drugs. But I do have a problem with pain.I know how easy it is to go past the line .I have wanted so many times to take an extra pill to get rid of the pain.I don't know why I didn't do it.But I can understand anyone who did do it.I could never stand being light headed and pain meds do that.I get sick and vomit if it gets bad enough.Maybe that's a blessing in disguise. Anyway, you be proud of your 7 days. Anytime you feel the demon talking to you,come to this forum. There's some really caring folks on this line.I can tell by your comments you have faith in God. Talk to Him. You may not think He's listening but He is. Sometimes I think my husbands asleep when I'm talking to him until I ask him what I said.He always repeats what I said.I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I don't think God will hear me because I'm out of His will. But remember He didn't walk away from you. He's still there. I'm sorry for your pain.I know you'll make it Wizard.
Kerrie
No drugs just some good old fashioned love.
I made a nice thai Red chicken Curry tonight, yum.(lots of green beans.potatoe and red capsicum)
cooking is fun and I like riding my bike around the swan river,sometimes the sun is so warm and the water cool and refreshing, every cell in my self is alive.
Who is talking about lost faith???
God I love you, just a though.......just passing through..........
I thought bookitty may be loitering, no enemies, cool.....
But who could handle working with old Charlie Manson?, Marilyn is weird enough thankyou!, in the nicest way REALLY!/!?(confused), the world is just CRYING out for such EMPATHETIC critters. oh the joy/pain....what a pleasure to be alive.Opioids SUCK!!!!!!!!!!
Just to keep things honest, I haven't been 3 months free of drugs. I've been free of all the opiates which dominated my life, that is true. But I'm still trying to taper off of benzos, such as Xanax, without having a seizure. I have now had three in the last two months and, by doc's orders, are not to try to take myself off of the benzos by myself. Just wanted to correct that misinterpretation or, if my fault, mistatement. Hope all is as well as can be with you. Thanks for thinking of me.
Your question ,who's talking about lost faith? Earlier Cidi mentioned about her faith. I was trying to encourage anyone who is a believer, that faith is hard to find in times of sorrow. I too was in that condition after the loss of my father. The pain was so overwhelming. I only meant to give an opinion about faith and not thinking it's there in sorrowful times. I wasn't implying they had loss their faith but that their faith was hidden by sorrow. Wizard seems to have a strong hold on his faith and I think he understood I was to give him some help and not condeming him. I hope that he understood my comments. I've written to Cindi (e-mail) and had wonderful conversations with her. I hope she knows it wasn't critisim but concern from someone that has been where she is. When my mother died a year ago, I went through a hard time then but it was easier to let her go because she was suffering so. So if I have hurt anyone with my comments, I am sorry. But we're only human and God knows that and helps us when we're weak.
Thanks Spook,
Kerrie
not that you asked ...
PS Saw Depp in Blow. Engrossing movie that doesn't make you jones at all for the white stuff. It's actually a fairly sad movie, but good.
My tip of the year moviewise is 'Enemy at the Gates," with Jude Law. It's depiction of the battle of Stalingrad is unforgetable. From a true story. 4 stars.
Tom
"Faith", n, Reliance, Trust, belief founded on authority, belief in religious doctrines, esp. such as affects character and conduct, spiritual apprehension of divine truth apart from PROOF!!, system of religious belief? (the christian, jewish, hindu, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc).
"I"- demanded PROOF and received it, "I" never had "Faith", now "I" know the facts, "God" does exist!! My Knowledge works for me and does not require Faith, only (consciousness),insight and intellect.
"I" n, (Metaphysical) the "I" , the ego, OR object of self- CONSCIOUSNESS, from this we deduce ego or self is separate!! from consciousness, ie that "I" is simualtaneously Conscious and of the "self"!! the (ego)
Note, inductive process, my method, same conclusion, this construct deductive, derivation "the word".ie, Communication predates all religions, hence God not first sound uttered.
Maybe concept always present...
"God", n, superhuman being worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes, deity, supreme being, Creator or ruler of universe.
"Goddess", n. Female deity in polytheism (esp.,in Latin mythology,of heaven ,hell, love, wisdom, moon, corn, war, Juno, Prosepine, Venus, Minerva, Diana, Ceres, Bellona); woman one adores. {-ess}
From this I presume by default "God" is a male, as God in the female form is a "goddess".
Gods/Goddesses humble servant Luke.
Male + Female = universe
Black + White = universe
Negative + positive = universe
matter + antimatter = universe
ying + yang + universe
ie........
{-e*(n)} + {+e*(n)}= universe.
I think I'm understanding you to say,you believe in God because of knowledge .Just go with me here for a minute,your comment was rather hard to get the jest of. But if I'm correct,all I can say is that I believed there was a God before I believed in God.I also believe in heaven and hell. I also believe the Bible is the holy inspired word of God. That even the devil believes and trembles. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. I can't see the air.But because I breathe it I know it's there. I can not see God ,I've never heard an audible voice from God,I didn't wittness the death and resurection of Jesus.But I once was lost and going to hell and I did ask Christ to save me and all I can tell you is He changed my life. Now I have the faith that when this life is over I will be in a better place. I haven't seen it but I accept it by my faith.
I underwent two surgeries.One lasting 10 hours the other 12.I believed the doctors had the knowledge to perform the surgeries.I had faith that God would steady their hands and help the docs as well as comfort me. The doctors were Christians and they knew I was in Gods hands as well as theirs.
I couldn't make it through the day without faith that God would help me. I've been without faith. Thank God,I may become weak in my faith for one reason or another but I have faith that God will help me through whatever life may bring.
I in no way am judging anyone without faith.God is our only judge. But faith is as real as knowledge. I only wish my faith were stronger. I've been touched by God because of my faith. I wouldn't be the lowly person I am though if my faith was what it should be.
I'll hush now. But I know you'll read this. I have faith you'll understand what I'm saying.
Not meaning to be critical of you Luke ,but could you reply in a language this old country girl can understand.I mean,if I misread your comment,honestly, I'm sorry. But this country girl...well ,I'm not slow but this one was confusing.
Man....sin
Woman...sin
lost....hell
believe....repent...salvation....faith....securiety
Thanks Luke, Kerrie
Do you have faith in love, do you believe in love OR do you know for a fact it exists because you have seen and felt its Magic.
I feel that your path, has a problem in that it preaches other paths are not valid, it claims sovereign over paths to OUR God, all Humanities God and therefore is a mildly selfish religion, take Jesus from the equation, it is an obsession, it begun and ended with jesus, why the decoration and ritual, I had a barbecue on sunday, you went to church, we both respect jesus. My path to God can be proven using modern science now (quantum Consciousness/Physics), some find a flower in a florest, others in the fields bathed in sunshine. Sometimes I feel some religions are "fast food" religions, as my path was long and tedious. I accept that God exists, but I do not accept Christians and muslems KILLING each other while claiming to be following Gods word.
How many more Christian soldiers must kill and die before they obey one simple request "thou shall not kill".
Read the bible again as it is very complex and many so called people of faith, ignore much of what it says, and everything it says is good information. its a good read. try a few religions, learn, love, feel, give, but in my humble opinion it is not healthy for this PLANET to get hung up with Jesus.
Some will have to await the return and ask him again, how do we live in "PEACE".
I agree, The Bible is a good read. You should try what's in it. It's a good feeling.
I won't judge you for what you don't believe and I would only ask that you do the same. I don't need religion. I need Jesus Christ. He is not a religion. Some do not feel that way. They will answer for that. But if you ask what I believe I will stand on Gods word and what it says.
Your right about the killing. I don't think it's right in any way. But I believe there's a lot going on that has nothing to do with Christians or Jews or any other denomination. I won't kill anyone this week I promise.
I know you can't sense my feelings in a comment Luke but there's no hard feelings here. I can talk all day about how my life changed after I accepted Christ. But I just wanted to say, I may not agree with things you say , you may not agree with things I say, but I only tried to help someone .Is that what your doing now? Did I condem anyone? Did I say anything offensive to anyone ? I've come here night after night because I found help for myself here. If I was judging anyone, would I of ever came back to a forum where people were honest about themselves and their problems ? I came back because there is true caring going on here.I beleive there's good here. Let's focus on that. Your specialty is knowing about drugs and the problems from them. I only added something one time on a subject I know something about.
Perhaps it is time for me to leave this forum . I don't want to be a problem in a place where no one needs a problem. If this is the case, consider it done, and no hard feelings.
Love, Kerrie
You Kerrie have done well and mean well and are very nice person, I have not seen any improvement in this planet in the last 2001 years, so I am not sitting back and spreading the word or awaiting return or fearing hell through defiance, I am going to do my best for the most.
The common thread of ALL religions is GOD and that is the BOSS, not his son, or brother or sister or mum or children.
Time for a new approach, sentimentality is futile.
jesus is REAL, but is he going to catch the Nuclear bombs when the **** hits the fan, NO.
Repent before it is too late.
"Quantum Cosmic Consciousness" and it ain`t no religion.
Fire up that Pineal wisdom gland.
In your Divine Lap of Consciousness...
Your Twinkle ***,
Ginette
In our Divine Lap of Consciousness...
Your secret weapon***? of love
Luke
Ginette,
Spook's Tantric Love Goddess
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Anyways, try to dispell the negativity, and find peace..
Ginette
I hope you are aware that if you post anyone's real name , as you just suggested to Anjelica above, or anyone's address or personal information without their consent that you are violating not only the unspoken terms of common civility but also the terms of agreement of this forum. You have just implied in a post that you could possibly do that. I believe that your isp is traceable and you can be barred from this forum if you were to choose to do something like that. I also believe that you would not be able to sign in with other names. About a year ago 2 posters were removed with far less offensive propositions. Yes, you could use a different isp, different pc and so on... it's all possible... but you would have to not violate again. I consider your comment to be noteworthy in regards to the trust that people would place in you ... you are free to disagree with anyone but not to do what you suggested.
Best wishes Luke, Maria Seraphina
( Brighty)
God Bless us All!,
Power & Magick 2 U All,
Love,
Wizard
Power & Magick 2 U all,
Peace & Light 2 U ALL,
Love,
Wizard
I will carry your thoughts with me,
Ginette :)
Joan Baez the list goes on and on.....But it's never enough it seems. It all starts in our hearts and can only spread from there. I hope you have a wonderful weekend and look to the sky for my Blue Jay as I think he's on his way spreading HOPE, LOVE and Peace.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light,
Love,
Wizard
Remember what I said about the weekend. I know it is going to be hard because of your loss. But it can also be unforgettable because of YOUR children and husband. Make it so. You told me awhile back to keep my focus and strength. To this I say to you,
you also do the same. Remember we reap what we sew. And if I remember what you told me about your beloved mother, what she sewed in you, you shall reap from your children! It's in your grasp, just reach out for it. If times get tough, then also know that we are here to help pick up some of the pieces. Remember she's out there with my father smiling down upon us. Even though for the last few years I may not of given him much to smile about :-) LOL, he's smiling now. I know this in my heart.......
Peace be with you my dear friend,
Power & Magick 2 U (extra Wizard dose this weekend),
Love,
Wizard
I hope to have the opportunity to continue to learn from you. I believe in speaking ones mind with what is in ones heart at any given moment. I do not think you have ever veered away from doing just that. Right, wrong or indifferant you carry on with class and integrity. It's a pleasure to wish you good tidings for this holiday and forever.
Peace & Light upon U,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Love Always,
Wizard
Spook you too shall be in my thoughts as in my heart as an unseen but not unheard FRIEND! Have much Peace this weekend, and do me a favor, as I understand it you are down under. Look to the Heavens for brother. I understand you have a differant view from your home. Send me your vision so I too can see what you see! So much Magick in the air....It's crackeling! Your story awhile back about the aboriginal little girl brought hours of tears to my eyes in sorrow. So TRUE was the story..........again I say look to the unblemished Heavens for me tonight as I will for you!
Peace & Light 2 U,
Power & Magick 2U,
Love from your friend,
Wizard
I've carried this in my wallet for years and thought I'd share it with any of you who are SEEKERS OF KNOWLEDGE.
It's called: MESSENGER OF WISDOM
Once appeared a wise man, though a stranger
in my dreams
he came upon a chariot riding down the
sun-lit beams
pulled by celestial horses who grazed
the milky way.
He held the reins of wisdom, in my sight he'll
always stay
his words they echoed loud across the
vastness of the sky
only once, would he share my world,
this his passing by
he took me in his chariot and talked
of many things
showed me worlds beyond my dreams that
would astonish even kings
he said my son these dreams you see are
all within your grasp
if you continue searching and take the
time to ask.
Walter Rinder
Goodnight and Bless us all,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
Luke
Power& Magick 2U,
God bless us in our journies,
Wizard
Although I am the last person to push any program (AA, NA, whatever) down anyone's throat, occasionally something I hear at meetings proves just too true to be left unrepeated. One thing which I heard early on and still rings very true to me is this: when we react to other people in a negative way, when provoked, we give them power over us.
I'm a big hockey fan, so let me give you this analogy -- some players in the NHL are known as "agitators". Their primary purpose is to go out on the ice and stir up the opposition (glove to the face, elbow to the head, whatever), in hopes of goading their opponent to take a shot back at them. In 90% of the cases, when they do their job well, the result is this -- the agitator goes unpenalized while the provoked player who strikes back is sent to the penalty box.
This may on the surface seem unfair, but let's look at it more closely. The aim of this method of officiating is to cut down on violence in general in the sport and improve the flow of the game. If it worked 100% of the time (which, of course, it doesn't), the job of the agitator would become obsolete. If no one retaliated to their cheap shots, there not only would be no reason to deliver them but eventually the referees would catch the agitators in mid-suckerpunch (or whatever) and send them off, thus completely negating their purpose. Agitators are rarely skill players, and it is unlikely they would keep their jobs were they to become ineffective at taunting the opposition into doing something stupid.
So what's my point? Here, as in many other discussion boards and forums I have seen/been a part of over the years, people will quite naturally take offense to the comments of others. For the record, this is one of the better-behaved forums I have seen overall. But people still clash.
I suppose all I am saying is this: if someone irritates you, it is much better in the long run to *completely ignore the person*. Don't retaliate. There are two possibilities here -- either the person meant to annoy you, in which case they will gleefully strike back (causing some long, repetetive, boring threads which ultimately take the focus off the main reason we are here, which is hopefully recovery), or their "elbow to the head" was an honest accident, which, should you wind up and flatten them in return, will almost certainly catch the unknowing offender off-guard and cause *them* to retaliate to *you*, with the same (or very similar) results of unproductive verbal pushing and shoving which benefits no one.
I name no names and am speaking to everyone, most of all myself. It is my first impulse to strike back at anyone who irritates me, whether or not it was intentional. This very nearly (and could still, if I am not vigilant) cost me my marriage. This is something which I, personally, can no longer afford to do, and urge everyone I meet to strive for.
Thanks to everyone for their attention. I certainly don't mean to "soap-box" here, and I apologize if my views are seen as inappropriate or unnecessary. As always, just trying to help any way I can.
Peace,
Pelle
Extremely intelligent and compassionate comment, now I balance it by saying something really! dumb.
Now you told them the rules how we going to win???
"the enraged rationalist, will pursue all their lives the battle of the irrational"
Salvadore Dali
"the enraged irrationalist, will carry on like a complete dill and be quite entertaining"
Luke Edward
do not beat yourself up,,,We all make mistakes,we are human,,,I have read mostly all the posts you have written and I do admire your strength..all we can do in times like this is move forward...and yes I do respect you...for going on with your life and seeing where your mistakes were....in order to gain respect we must earn respect and for that NOT to happen is when we go and keeping repeating our same old obsessive behaviors...the addicts are not the only ones that are sick sometimes but the people that love addicts came become sick as well...start to learn to loce yourself hon because if you don't you cannot begin to love anyone in the true sense....you are the most important person without you being ok how will your boys be ok? so....hold your head up high, go on and stop being so hard on yourself.....love cin
Peace,
Pelle (BTW, thank you, and I certainly will take this in the spirit in which it was intended) :)
Peace,
Pelle
Love ya sister,
Angelica*annie
That which is clearly viewed no longer exists.
That = he/she , as well as anything else
Love, Maria Seraphina
Thank you for your kind comments which I just found in The Neverending Thread. I would reply in the same to each of you but to do so would only gild the lily. You know who you are and the truth is in your hearts.
RE: Removal of this thread. Why would anyone remove the main attraction ? The web master must find this very entertaining. I don't think there is much else that is entertaining about addiction.
Those who seem to be longest on memory are those who are neediest in terms of feeling worthy of love... they cannot close the chapter and continue to beg, finding every possible way to gain approval and attract limelight. It's a hallmark of addiction and not everyone seems to find healing from it.
Hard ,for me especially, but worth the effort is to choose peace.
( One way to begin practicing this is to ignore the assholes. It's an eartly exercise and does not require any cosmic consciouness to do it. )
Love, Maria Seraphina
Your take on issues is clearly a compassionate treatise... one that is of humility and recovery... a fine example for those who are getting it and worth looking at more closely for those who are not.
I love your posts !!! Those of us who are not addicts are trying to recover also... Lea & Kerri have mentioned this so appropriately ( both here and in different threads)... thank you for always keeping the "recovery chord" alive here for us.
Love, Maria Seraphina
Maria Seraphina
Love, Maria Seraphina
Love, Maria Seraphina
We all aggree to disaggree, and as long as our comments are to help, and not to hurt....there is nothing wrong. Our beliefs is what makes us all unique, and different......we all respect that, I would hope. So, don't even think about leaving. I share my beliefs w/ people from time to time, and if we disaggree......we find something else to discuss....LOL
I don't think anyone should refute what you have to say, esp. if it was not directed toward them. Unless it's just good old fashion reciprocation of views/beliefs.....then that should be fine. I believe this is healthy......
Hope you keep coming back!
Love,
Angelica
I grew up in a disfunctional family, and have continued my adult life in many of the same ways that i learned to know as a child.
My children are 1, 5 and 8, and i really appreciate hearing the feelings of addiction as it relates to you as mothers.
Thank you, and i hope i didn't intrude in any way.
I just wanted to thank you both for making me feel 'not so alone'!
Good luck to you both, you are very special women!
Lv Jenny
I tried to recall each name because each one of you have made an impact in my life in one way or another. This week some of you have made the extra effort to write to a woman that had decided to stay off the threads. Because of your words of encouragement I have decided I do need to stay. I need your help more than you can know at times.If you guys can stay around after all you've been through, I can do it too.
Thank you Angelica and Cindi.You probley don't know how much you've helped me.To all of you that have kept me in your prayers I thank you. I am going to need them a lot in the days ahead. I'm going through a lot of testing now and it really gets to me. Some of you may remember I have bad health and chronic pain. Angelica ,I do remember you responding when I first came here.I was taken back by all you've been through and I know your pain is a daily struggle. I appreciated you trying to help me with all your going through. Cindi,I appreciate so much your honesty with me about you and your mom. I know you understand the hard time I have saying no to my daughter but you are helping me do just that. I can find the strength through God and friends like all of you. We can help one another.That's why I came here night after night and why I keep coming back. I guess that's why I let the thing with someone else get to me so bad. But I'll try not to let that happen again.
Please remember me this week and next week in your prayers. My doctors are all out of town and it's difficult for me to go on trips like this even though their anywhere from 30 min. to 2 hours away.
My daughter was so out of it yesterday her husband couldn't get her awake to open the door.She says she hadn't taken too much med but I know better.If any of you have tried the herbal thing when you were getting off the drugs ,would you tell me how and what you used? I'd like to offer her this option to see if she'll try it.
Wizard, I want to tell you how PROUD I am of you for getting off the drugs. Pat yourself on the back. You all deserve it!!!!!!
I will close now.Sorry I write so much but you are my only way of letting it out sometimes.
God Bless and Thank You All,
Kerrie
Love, Brighty
power & Magick 2 U,
God Bless us all,
luv,
Wiz
Wiz: you are so full of life, and what an inspiration you are! You are definately a nice addition to this board. You are very supportive.
Love YALL,
Angelica
I wanted to ask you about your daughter. Mine is 22 also. She'll be 23 in June.
She is addicted to Hydrocodones and Zanex. I'm sure I didn't spell that right. But she also takes percocet and midrin and fiorinol. I know I'm not spelling right but just sound them out.I worry because she takes so much at a time. I've given her all the warnings I have been given from my friends here.
How did your daughter decide to get clean. My daughter says she wants to go to rehab but that it's embarrassing to admit you have a problem and everyone find out. She knows all the family knows she's hooked. I tell her they love her and they will be proud of her for getting help.
I worry about my grandchildren. I take care of the 4 year old a lot. But I'm not physicaly able to take care of the baby. He weighs about 17 pounds and I don't have much strength in my arms because of surgery to remove a large cyst off my spinalcord on my cervical spine area. But when she was here the other day she was very tired. I asked her had she took too many pills and she swore she hadn't. Then her husband called and said she didn't pick him up from work and when he got home she was so out of it she couldn't hear him banging on the door. I had the 4 year old but the baby was with her. I was so upset that I hadn't kept him too. But I can't watch her every second.
If you have any ideas I would love to hear them. I'll keep you in my prayers.
Now to all my friends ,thanks again for being there. I'll write you more later. I'm tired after going to hospital today for scope. Love to all and God Bless.
Kerrie
Your daughter may be comforted to know that at her first rehab she met the high school foot ball coach.. they promised to not tell anyone they saw eachother there. There is a sacredness to the confidentiality in treatment programs ... I have seen the inside of nearly every treatment center from Philadelphia to Florida... she did 9 of them !!! There is nothing to be embarassed over... there are doctors and nurses in treatment as well as people of all races and ages.. all career backgrounds... we met one 73 year old lady who had been widowed 8 months before... she finally decided to quit drinking after reflecting the impact it had on her family for so many years.. that takes courage. I hope your daughter will not deprive herself of at least giving it a try. I will send you healing prayers.
Love, Brighty
I appreciate you answering back. I need all the help I can get with her.
My daughter started out taking the pills for migrains.Then she liked the high and quickly started to misuse them.She is doing marajuana ,xanex,percocet,and afew others I can't spell. But you get the picture. The thing is, she can convince the doctors to give her more and increase the strength.She just went to the doctor last week. A girl that knew her had called the doctor and reported her and she convinced him the girl was lying.He increased her meds and the strength. I told her she had better use them right because she would not be geting anymore from me. I always hide them when I know she's coming over.I don't ever see her except when she wants something though.
She was in jail in May of last year for having drugs without a prescription when they were stopped in Georgia for a broke windshield. The cops could tell they were messed up and searched their car and each person. She had 10 valuim on her and 2 xanex.Her brother-in-law had pot in his suitcase. So they were arrested. She spent a week in jail. She went to court in December and they gave her 3 years probation and an 1800.00 fine. They are suppose to transfer her probation to Tennessee.So far it hasn't been transfered. But she is still doing the pot too. If they do a random drug test on her she will go to jail.She doesn't think they'll do anything.I've tried to tell her they'll send her to Georgia to serve out her probation but she doesn't believe me. I've put it in Gods hands. I can't make her listen.
She too has tried to kill herself. She ran her truck into a tree when she was 5 months pregnant.She has sliced her arms up with a razor. She put her hand through a fish tank when she was mad at her husband. I fear for her life. But I have worried until I am sick. I can't turn it over to God and then take it back. So pray I don't fall back into trying to fix it myself. I know it's out of my power. Thanks to everyone here, I'm trying to be there for her without helping her problem by giving her my pills.I am not able to bail her out of jail if it comes to that. I know it will come to that yet. I'd rather it be that than her life.
Keep me in your prayers friends.
Kerrie
Love, Brighty
She would tell me one thing and swear she never said it and call me a liar for making it up. Then she would convince herself of things that never happened.
Could this be due to the xanex? This drug is new to me. I'd like anything you can tell me about it. Also about the withdrawel symptoms. I want to pass this on to her.
Thanks again.
Kerrie
If he was addicted when he was living with his kids, there's probley a lot you'll never know. I bet if you asked him though, none of it was his fault.
You done good girl. Hang in there. I'm rooting for you.
I appreciate your kindness about the baby I had that died. It's been 27 years ago but it's the kind of thing that stays with you in life. She was born without joints in her body. If she had lived she would of been in a nursing home unable to do anything for herself. I thank God for taking her home.She was beautiful though.Very red hair. God knows whats best for us even though we can't see it for the pain at times.
God Bless You,
Kerrie (P.S.) Kerrie was the name of my daughter.
Check out my postings to niccee about methadone witdrawl.
I posted it to you as you have a child on drugs and wanted help with that. This cure works for all drugs - not just methadone as the root cause is zinc/mag depletion. If you have any doubts get the person to have a blood test and you will find they have virtualy no zinc/mag in their blood.
LEAH