Hydrocodone addiction

[Mickamouse619]

I have been taking prescription drugs off and on for over 13  years. Some for depression some for chronic pain. Mostly pain meds. When I first found this website I was really relieved that I was not the only one with this problem. I have been on every pain med that you can think of. The last year was really bad.I was doing everything I could to get these meds. I started out with a real problem with chronic pain. Then It went alot farther than just using the pills for pain. I have been off the meds for over three weeks and I am still going through the withdrawls. I need the pain meds for a real medical reason but I dont want them to get "high" anymore. Where do I draw the line between the two?? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank's!

[hjp]

you will get alot of differing views on "how many" hydrocodone are enough.  It's tough because if you're an addict one is good, two is better, then pretty soon you're up to a lovely 25/day.  If you cannot tolerate the pain without narcs you should set a limit of how many you will take daily......not more than 4,5,6.  You will still have withdrawals even from these low numbers, but mixed with antiinflamatories(from your doc.) you should be able to get substantial relief.  Many on this forum feel you initally get great pain relief from narcs, but in time you're taking the narcs and the pain is the same.  Obviously if you can survive without them and endure some pain you're much better off. Read the whole forum and you'll begin to feel why you're better off.  Most people on this forum are struggling to get off the stuff. There are those persons with non-addictive personalities who take a vicodin every few days, up to maybe two daily for severe pain and never increase.  Doesn't sound like you mick.  Good luck hjp

[ash]

  For me it was the fact that I continued to take the pills after getting better from a car accident even though I was in no pain that was really scary, but I am an addict so all addicts can relate. I think that If you can't tell the differece if you are taking them to get "high" or to stop the pain maybe another form of painkiller should be considered, unfortunetly we all know that narcotics are the most effective at the same time can be the most dangerous. I'm sure maybe deep down you know what to do. Good luck.

  the ash

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Not too long ago I was asking myself and this board about where to draw the line.  Originally, I was elated when my doctor prescribed Vicodin for pain control.  In less than a year I was on Percoset and ultimately morphine.  I discovered that my mind would start craving opiates even though my body was free of them for days.  It has gotten to the point that I have to take narcotics just to keep me out of severe depression!

Attending AA and NA meetings used to help me tremendously. The problem is that I haven't attended a meeting in over a year and am basically cut off from all human help.  The only thing left for me is divine intervention(God).  I think that most folks who have successfully reached a state of recovery from the ravages of drug abuse will agree that we need to get spiritual and find God. I've been around this forum for a long time and have seen this aspect of recovery discussed few times.

J.B.

[Unwise]

In all due respect, God, spirituality, and Divine Intervention do not work for everyone.  I speak from personal experience. I'm not knocking AA--if it works for you then by all means keep it up. For those of us who are atheists or believe we ourselves have the power to quit, there are alternatives to AA.  I would recommend looking into Smart Recovery at smartrecovery.org, as well as other alternatives to sobriety at http://www.smartrecovery.org/substanc.htm.  Rational Recovery is another viable alternative.  Go to www.rational.org.

Good luck to all of you, no matter what path you choose.

[Unwise]

There was a home detox "recipe" involving L-Tyrosine, vitamins, and lots of hot baths that was widely discussed on this forum a while back.  Eventually I managed to find the recipe and bookmark it, but now it is no longer there.  Since I did not print it out, I would appreciate it if anyone knows where else this "famous recipe" might be posted and would provide the URL.

[Francoise]

Here's your link to The Recipe. The people who have actually used it swear by it.

http://pub37.ezboard.com/bthenewaddictionmedicineforum

Try it and let us know.

Francois

[Unwise]

Thanks so much for the prompt reply.  I checked your link and apparently EZboard makes you jump through a mumber of hoops to gain access to that posting--or any postings in that forum.  I found that a bit odd since I had accessed it without having to "apply for membership" before.  I am now waiting to see if my application was accepted.  Amazing.  

The URL I had used before was http://pub37.ezboard.com/fthenewaddictionmedicineforumfrm3.showMessage?topicID=2.topic

Anyway, thanks again for the info. I will let you know how it goes (if I ever get to see the posting) and would also be curious if you know if any postings from others who have used the recipe and can vouch for its effectiveness.

Again, I appreciate your prompt response.

Best Wishes,

U

[kennymack1]

I am coming off oxycontins and am going insane is there anything that will help me? I have a doctors appt. tomorrow I am in a back woods town where the doctors dont relly know about oxy's. please give me some names of meds I can take to help with the with drawals,thank you so much

[Schlub]

Ask your doctor to prescribe Buprenex, assuming you've been off the Oxycontin's for several days. It's addictive, but if you use it for less than a week or  so, it'll take you through withdrawals almost completely painlessly.

Short of that, valiuma nd clonidine help somewhat to relieve the shaking, sweats and leg-kicking and if you're lucky even help you sleep.As for over the counter, all I know about is Immodium for loose bowels.

As for that detox recipe on ezboard, I just signed up there and people do swear by it. It's acombination of  L-tyrosine and B6, plus 5-HTP, plus a zinc and magnesium combo. At least that's part of the recipe -- thge part that deals with restoring the natural balance of nuerotransmitters in your brain that the opiates have essentially leached out. It's this lack of serotonin, dopamine, etc., that causes that intense lethargy and depression that we feel when detoxing from opiates.

My guess is it's no magic cure for the lethargy/depresion, but that it does help.

Good luck to you both.

[dabby]

I recently posted the same subject on this board and since then I have tapered off to 7 Hydrocodone a day.  This was not easy for me, the withdrawals were bad for about 5 days, and I did not stop completely but only cut back.  Things are getting better, but my problem is how do you take just a little of something that you used to take alot of, when you're an addict?  I live on the theory that "More is Better" even though in my head I know this is not true.  As I said things are better, and it's all a mind game for me.  I have to convince myself that 2 years ago 7 of these pills would have been alot for me.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.  And so I keep on . . . a day at a time.

[ash]

Just a quick thanks for the smart recovery website. I never knew there was an alternative to 12 steps. Whatever floats your boat right? I am really relived to have found it. Thanks again.



the ash

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thank you for posting an alternative to the twelve step programs that I seem to have problems with.  I've been through drug and alcohol rehab four times in thirty years.  They were all based on AA/NA programs...so this has been all I have been exposed to as far as recovery from drug addiction.

Anymore, I am of the thinking that drug addiction is a condition that has to be endured as any other chronic disease.  If you can't beat it, you learn to live with it as best as you are able.

This forum has been a blessing to me in that when I feel really badly, I can come here and vent my frustrations.  After typing for a few minutes and posting, I am ready to go out and face life again with a new outlook thanks to all the people here!

J.B.

[JR.]

Hi Everyone,

This is a new forum for me as I used to use another site that was apparently cancelled for one reason or another. I realy enjoy interacting with those that are experiencing, have experienced or are just interested in addiction to drugs, more specifically, Hydrocodone. You see, I was a vicodin addict for about 12 years give or take a year. I was taking 8 5/500's at a time in about 3 hour intervals. I could tell you everything about 5/500's, 7.5/750's and 10/650's. I knew how long a bottle of 30 would last and when I would have to go back and ask for more. I was also a police officer for 18 years the last 12 being addicted to vicodin. I was on the "seekers" list in all of the E.R's. I knew most every doctor around and because of what my profession was, they were more apt to trust me with a prescription which supplied me with a lot of vicodin under whatever guise I was using. I lost my career of 18 years as of last August 31st, 2001. A pharmacist turned me in to my own department and I was investigated for a 3rd degree felony, the charge being "DIVERSION." This entails attempting to or obtaining a scheduled drug, mine was a schedule III drug, by fraud, deception, subterfuge or misrepresentation. It was only by God's grace that the assistant D.A. would not accept the case. His position was that prescription drug abusers/addicts need help and that as exactly what I did. I went through rehab for 6 weeks, I still go to after care and A.A./N.A. meetings. I am 271 days clean and just got my 9 month chip at A.A.. I totally surrendered my life to God through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior and God has restored my Life, a new career, and a new relationship with my wife and son. They will tell you that they did not know me for the last 12 years, or the person that I had become. I was able to hide my addiction from my SGT., my wife, friends etc... or so I thought. Boy, what a big lie that addiction teaches us in that false sense of security that it tells us is there when we are getting high. I say "high" because that is what it became after awhile. Mine started with 13 knee surgeries as well as some other surgeries and then it became a daily hunt for the drug. I have gone back to all of the doctors and pharmacists that I duped in my addiction and have asked for forgiveness. They are just happy that I got help. I might be rambling now but I am here to offer any help that I can to anyone out there who wants help. We all needed help during our "run" but until we were ready to get help, nothing anyone told us would have gotten us to seek help. I know that we would cry out for help but we would not seek it. I had to crash into a brick wall at 100 mph before I would listen and accept the fact that I was in dire need of help. Comments and interaction please.

[GOD]

Hello J. R.-

That was a great post and many people will benefit from your experience.  I am now four months sober from alcohol, but the alcohol addiction caused peripheral neuropathy.  It is very painful nerve damage that must be managed with some type of painkilling drug.  I was smart enough not to choose Hydrocodone-based drugs.  However, the first drug that they put me on was Ultram.  My doctor said that it was not addictive.  Oh yeah, right.  I got to the point where I was Downing 20 pills per day.  This drug is not a narcotic per se, but it does yield a high just as good as morphine.  I am back down to three pills per day now to manage my pain.  I wish I didn't have to take drugs, but without some painkiller, I am in a bad shape.

And as you said J. R., finding and having a higher power, God and/or AA or NA will really change your life and your whole outlook on the world.  I am so grateful for this; feeling like a "human" again, and having my life back.  And to all of you people who are suffering still, keep coming back to this post and read our stories, and tell your story.  This site has been very valuable in my recovery.

I love you all--please keep coming back!

Peace,
Jess

[MoonSista]

I wanted to let you know that reading your story made me want to reply to your post. I went into treatment last year, it was Feb. 7, 2001. I was so caught up into my addiction and totally numb, that I was writing my own scripts. My tolerance was sky high, I was taking up to 30 pills a day, (Norco). It took control over me, I knew what I was doing but didn't care, I needed my pills and that was all there was to it. The thing that made me go into treatment was I thought I was caught by the doctor and I thought they would go easier on me if I went into this on my own. Fortunately I wasn't caught, but the thought of going to jail scared me to death, so that fear is what kept me in the rehab. Once the "drug fog" left and I started to have feelings again I couldn't believe how lost I was. I couldn't believe that I wrote my own scripts for those pills, jeopardizing my freedom. I couldn't believe that was all I wanted, those stupid pills. Now that I am off of them I feel good and I am so happy that I had that "fear" because it was that "fear" that made me do something before it was too late.
I still think about the fact that I could have gone to jail, I had committed a felony for goodness sake, I can't believe I took those risks.
Thank you JR for sharing your story:)

Jackie

[Neena]

Hi you guys.  Your stories sound so much like mine.  I was addicted to Vicoden ES, detoxed off that at home, then was put on 120 Xanax per month.  I soon went down hill.  I was intervened on by my family and went into a treatment center.  Teary eyed and fearful, I entered on a journey that I was destined to travel all my life.  I am free now, although I still suffer from PAWS, Post Accute Withdrawal Symptons. I am willing to share my story with you all, if you care to hear it.  ***@****  Some of us have to feel the horrors of withdrawal to cross over to freedom.

[GOD]

Hi Neena,

All of us would be happy to hear your story! all of us in here can relate on some level to the others here. I wen't to treatment as well; If it wasn't for that, I'd still be a drunk junkie..... So, come back and vent/talk/share whatever you want to!

Jess

[JR.]

To Jessarpy, MoonSista, Neena and all others on the forum,

One of the biggest things to help me in the beginning of recovery back in June 2001, when I entered rehab., was knowing that I was not alone. I cannot tell you what it felt like going into that room with other addicts like myself and they left me know right off that I was not a freak, even being a cop. As a matter of fact, it made them see that cops are just people too. Well those days are gone and I now have another path to follow. I am here for any and all of you. I have learned alot and still have so much more to learn, as we all do. Proverbs says ( I don't have the address at the moment) that "There is safety in the multitude of counselors." This I know to be a fact. Thank You for responding to my last posting. I am truly glad that this site exists. Because of what I now do, I will respond to your postings but it will be every few days so don't think that I am not listening. Guys, if we can stop another person from killing themselves or wrecking thier lives on Hydrocodone much less any other drug, then what we have gone through or are going through was not for nothing. God Bless and continue to heal each of you.

JR.

[JR.]

Neena,

I too, would like to hear your story. I think that we all would like to hear your story. Please share with us what it took for you to look for help. I am all ears.

JR.

[JR.]

Neena,

I too, would like to hear your story. I think that we all would like to hear your story. Please share with us what it took for you to look for help. I am all ears.

JR.

[Neena]

To all.  My story is a long one.  Before i post, i want to know if you all want to hear it.  i will make it the short version, i promise.  neena

[Seamstress]

To clear up some misinformation, AA/NA does not require you believe in God only a Higher Power.  Now, most people can accept the fact that they are not the most important thing in the universe hence they can usually accept that there is a Higher Power than them. You can use a tree in your back yard if you want.

[JR.]

Seamstress,

I thank you for sharing that information. Yes, A.A./N.A. does teach you to believe in a higher power, something other than our fallible selves. I can only speak for what transpired in my life and that being the power of God Almighty. Part of his healing plan in my life was to connect me with A.A./N.A. which is where I came to understand my disease. This is where the growing began. I thank God daily for A.A./N.A. and for all of you. I am here for the still suffering as I hope all of you are as well. Keep in mind though, that OUR recovery comes first but we share what we have with those who need help.

[JR.]

Neena,

I am all ears and ready to hear your story.

[Seamstress]

Me too, JR. How long has AA been around now? 70+ years or success.  And it has worked consistently over those years. I have no idea how it works except that it works if you work it. No other program can make that claim.  So even if you're agnostic or atheist, you are welcome and you can still work the steps.  Don't let that keep you away.

[JR.]

I have a great family in A.A./N.A. and my sponsor will celebrate his 25th year of sobriety this week. He has been firm and understanding since he "took me on". He doesn't allow excuses and he allows me to be me. There is strength in numbers and A.A./N.A. has been proven over the years. Let the record speak for itself. I am so glad to have found you and all others on this forum. Thank you for sharing some of the principles involved in A.A.. I do believe in the program as you obviously do as well and again, the experiences that I have gained in my sobriety is there for anyone that asks. God Bless you Seamstress for your stance. I look forward to much more sharing with all of you.

[singer]

i had two hernia operations in an eight month period. vicodin was prescribed. i had post surgery problems and the doctors continued the vicodin for pain. ten months of vicodin 5/500 to 7.5/750. i am now taking 8 per day. i tried to stop for one day and went through hell. i cant believe this happened when i never to anything for pain. my doctor is trying to ween me off but i cheat. i know what everyone is going through and pray for all. it is amazing how this white pill controlls your life worrying day after day whether the doctors will prescribe more when i run out.

[JR.]

I am so glad that you are looking for answers. You are in the same situation that many of us were or presently are in at one time. In A.A. at the close of a meetin, we all say the serenity prayer and end it with "Keep coming back cause it works if you work and you'll die if you don't so work it cause you're worth it." Singer, please keep coming back to this forum because there is much experience here that is willing to listen and help you if we can. In the meantime, maybe it's time for some rehab. Don't be afraid or ashamed of that word like I was. I think that my shame and fear kept me addicted for about 4 more years than it should have. Hindsigt is 20/20 but I can tell you that there is life beyond the "white pill". There are rehab programs available and ready to intervene on your behalf. But as with anything else, you have to be ready to take the step. Medical help is available. I frowned on it at first but I wouldn't change a bit of it now. It does work and the followup through AA/NA is part in parcel to that as well. There is great support in AA/NA again,loaded with compassion and understanding and they won't let you kid yourself either. I will be praying for you in the interim. May God heal you and give you freedom with wisdom in your decision. JR.

[singer]

thanks for your reply it reallyhelps. i have become very irratable and i shake my left leg when i am sitting is this part of the vic intake.

[hjp]

neena, obviously you're a rookie on this sight...everyone has a tragic story, and all on this sight have tremendous empathy for your suffering...and all can help you move on from your tragedy.  Just flop it out there and let us digest it; we'll make our observations and you can get on with your life probably in a much more positive direction.  There's an unbelieveable amount of compassion, education, and love here.....take advantage, and take your first step.  Do it , hjp

[dabby]

Yes, please post your story.  I'll took forward to hearing it.

[dabby]

I was touched by your post and your honesty.  I am about to go to my doctor's office and I have to face him.  I was caught again doctoring a prescription - I changed 5 mgs. to read 7.5.  This is the second time I have been caught and I am afraid.  I know this has to end.  I have recently cut way back to about 7 a day ( hyrocodone 7.5) and I was taking about 20.  I had a hard time cutting back.  I am scared.  My appointment is in 20 minutes and I am afraid he will have me arrested.  Hopefully, I will return to read comments to this thread.  I think you have alot to offer.  I have had much experience with AA, but have felt too guilty taking hydrocodone the way I have, to go to meetings.  I haven't had a drink in almost 8 years, but have switched addictions to pills.  Well - gotta go now and face the music.  Dabby

[Seamstress]

You need to get back to AA and fess up.  But I think you know that. I'm sure your doctor is not going to have you arrested. And it's wonderful that you've cut back as much as you have. You are on your way to being clean and back to recovery.  Please let all of us know how it went at your doctor's appointment.

[mrballey]

Could someone please post or email me the Thomas Detox recipe...the link that has been provided to it takes you to an addiction board which you must apply for membership.  I applied yesterday and the assholes denied me, so please for my life sake get me that recipe

[Jack Frost]

Hi Mr. B. - you are welcome here ;)

This reciepe is clearly not endorsed by everyone and I believe Dr. Steve has come out against it. Having said that, many users swear by it. I would cut the Ltryosine in half personally. Hope it helps and you get clean, peace.

JF

Detox Recipe

For what it's worth, I'm going to re-print my cold turkey detox recipe for Lortabs/Vicodin/Norco (yes, with the right combo of drugs and non-drug therapies, you can detox yourself from this drug). I know, because I developed this formula in order to detox myself from a seventy-five (yes, 75) vicodin per day habit. So, here it is. If you're going to do it, follow it to the letter or it won't work. The one rx drug you'll need to make it really work is some kind of benzo like valium, klonopin, librium, xanax, ativan, etc. So, if you have any relatives that can help you out with one of these drugs (or a doctor, of course) the benzos wll help make the results much more successful ... but if you can't, the recipe can still work ...

Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.

Supplies you'll need first:

As many Valium, Xanax, Librium, Ativan or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.

--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself with lots of treats, along with some good escapist movies to take your mind off of everything. That always worked for me.

VERY IMPORTANT: Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.

--speaking of those @#%$ thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really, really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not nearly as much as the hot baths.

Brand-name-only Imodium (immodium) (over the counter at the supermarket. Don't ask me why, but the brand name just works better.)

-- if you're a normal Lortab/Vicodin addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lortab. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three Imodium (immodium) and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it at the slightest rumbling from your guts. Imodium (immodium) is also an opioid class drug and, even though it's action is mostly confined to that part of the brain that affects bowel motility, I noticed a slight relief from the overall withdrawal feeling when I took the Imodium (immodium) -- just don't overdose on the stuff thinking it will relieve all the withdrawal symptoms - it won't - it will just constipate the hell out of you at very high doses. Stick to the dosages I recommended.


Now, this is very important to short- and long-term recovery - I can't emphasize this one enough: L-Tyrosine [NOT L-Lysine] (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid freely available at the health food store. Costs about 12 bucks a bottle.

WHY?
Chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Plus:
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps (the B6 helps the L-Tyrosine be absorbed)
Plus, high-potency magnesium and zinc supplements. You may have to buy each in separate pills.

My experience detoxing with L-Tyrosine says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps along with your zinc/magnesium supplement every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. (I did, big time!!) ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use L-Tyrosine every other day with very few exceptions, although now I cut my dose to 1500 mg of L-Tyrosine. I cut down on the dosage because it can cause the runs at high doses. But for your first week, you need the high dose of L-Tyrosine and should just put up with the runs. It only happens once after each dose (if it happens at all) and it's not the "burning runs" that you get from withdrawal. It also happens within the first hour and won't return, so it's something you can plan on. Also, the Imodium (immodium) just might cancel out the runs, anyway. So, it's livable at least for that first week. Besides, the L-Tyrosine will make you feel so damn good so quickly, you won't care! You'll be looking forward to your morning L-Tyrosine dose, believe me! L-Tyrosine will make you feel alert without being nervous, peaceful without feeling sedated, and just generally GOOD, despite the withdrawal. It's truly THE discovery of opiate withdrawal therapy.

Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).

According to some literature, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to fully complete the dopamine, norepinephrine conversion. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. Health food stores generally care multis that, instead of carrying every vitamin known to man, carry instead all the "metals" we need such as copper, Magnesium, zinc, phosporous,etc. I easily found a multiple that contained large doses of zinc, magnesium, copper, vitamin C and lots of other things for very little money. In any event, I got a VERY good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6 alone. Don't let any difficulty finding the whole laundry list of minerals and metals stop you from using the L-Tyrosine and B6 -- it works like gangbusters anyway!

By the way, the zinc and magnesium tip was supplied by a contributor to this site called "pillpoppa" who claimed it was the magic formula for recovering from long-term methadone use, so it sounds like an important part of the formula. Even though I never used methadone, I was using this multiple with large doses of zinc and magnesium (without realizing it) and, at first, I couldn't figure out why I felt so good so quickly after stopping the Lortabs. Then I realized I was getting all that zinc and mag with my multiple! Pillpoppa's formula really does work, my friend. So, don't skip any of the instructions I've given you here. Add it up, and it doesn't cost as much as a visit to the doc for a big fat Lortab rx! Remember: all the details of my recipe are necessary to complete recovery.

WARNING: Avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, all those kinds of psychiatric mood elevators, etc.

Remember, despite what the @#%$ doc might like you to believe, you haven't done anything wrong. You're a normal, decent human being who's fallen into the trap these modern medications have set for us all. You're not alone, and will never be alone as long as you come to this site. Believe me, we've ALL been where your at. We understand you and accept you and will support you through your trials. Lean on us if it helps. That's what we're here for.

(To which I (JF) would add walk and or run daily, enjoy your pets and nature, load op on chocolate and go see all those movies you been wanting to and read inspriational books. )

[Elvira]

Seems to me this recipe has just popped up everywhere,,and "copied" for all to see, do we have any idea who wrote this recipe?  The origial source?  and now who is actually taking the credit for the recipe?  I have heard it is on another forum?  then I have seen "replicas" of it on other boards.  Has anybody ever been given credit for this recipe I guess is my question or is it more or less like a pot luck dinner and different ingredients thrown in for good measure.    E

[Witchywoman]

This recipe was developed by Thomas, a long time poster on this forum.  It is also posted on the ezboard forum that many people go to.

A poster named pillpoppa contributed the part about taking the minerals zinc, magnesium, and manganese.

The 5 htp part of the recipe was thrown in but several of us who tried it, but I think it was GWH who first suggested 5 htp as helpful for detox.

But, the bulk of the recipe, and the entire recipe as written in the above post, was written by Thomas, and I agree he should get credit for it.

WW

[Neena]

Well.  I have been drinking beer since the age of 16.  I am now 38.  In my late 20's and 30's, I was given Vicoden for various operations and such.  I remember begging for refills and such.  Soon about a year or more ago, I had a friend hook me up with someone who got tons of them.  I bought them off the street from her and also, doctor hopped if she ran out.  It was so humiliating.  When I look back, it is a wonder I am not in jail.  It spiraled horribly.  I realized that the detox was horrible so I just kept on buying.  I was pawning stuff and ended  spending all of my money.  Soon, I became scared for my life and my daughter's life as I was taking her on my scores.  I decided on day to stop, as I looked at her in my rearview mirror.  Sad.  All the while, I was still drinking.  Finally, I became so stoned and sick, that I could not get out of bed without 3-4 Vic ESs.  My friends interviened and I detoxed at home for 10 long days.  Vomiting everywhere, shaking, crying, etc., my therepist gave me Xanax.  Soon, they pushed the dosage of Xanax to 120 per month.  I soon was hooked on those.  While drinking too.  Finally, my family interviened and I was sent to a Treatment Center.  This center was wonderful and treated the whole person, not the addiction.  The Big Book,  and my higher power were my saviours.  I have not had the burning bush experience, but the desire to use has been removed.  I slipped and had 3 beers about a month ago, but have been clean of pill since detox.  Detox from Vicoden is Nasty, but from Xanax is dangerous.  The details are long and varied.  I was very lucky to have never had a run in with the law, etc.  This disease is going to kill us if we don't stop using.  15% of us are wired this way.  We are not normal users.  We are however, very intelligent.   That is why we are so good at getting away with this ****.  The disease is just like any other disease.  I must be treated radically and nipped in the bud.  A long and winding road, but well worth travelling.  Most insurances cover some type of inpatient treatment centers and there is NO doubt that I could have done this on my own.  I'm open for questions, Neena

[CASEY]

My 20 year old heroin addict son just detoxed and also was hospitalized with endocarditis, a serious iv introduced bacteria into the heart. I'm done supporting his living in his current environment so have told him he has to come home or go to treatment. He thinks I am punishing him for getting clean. Great thinking, huh? Anyway, he is sure he can stay clean without treatment. I seriously doubt it. The stand off begins. His thinking is arrested at 15 since that is when he started using. How do I get him to treatment or at least to some meetings? Help! Gina

[mrmichael67]

Gina,

Your son needs further treatment and counseling.  Just detoxing is not enough.  The odds are that he will relapse.  Bringing him home will not keep that from happening.

[Schlub]

Maybe you can get your son to go to an AA or NA meeting (I prefer AA). If nopt, then clearly he's got to find something "inviting" in his continuing treatment. Just white-knuckl;ing it and trying to NOT DO SOMETHING (i.e., use drugs) doesn't work for very long. He's got to find something that's positive and active in recovery. For many, that's the emotional uplift they get from going to ASA meetings and seeing all these people who ought to be dead but look so alive because they've kicked theoir addictions. For others, it's a support network onl;ine (like here) or offline. Some people find a rebirth in psychotherapy. And others even find it in strenuous exercize -- taking up martial arts, or starting to run or exercize.

But whatever it is, there's got to be some sort of positive awakening, some sort of "reward", in recovery. If it's just the absence of something (drugs), then it probably won't work.

[JR.]

Hey Dabby,

I am sorry that I could not have been there the other day when you had to return to the doctor. It looks like the support on this forum was there for you though, and responded to you. I too, am curious as to the results of your meeting with your doctor the other day. It is a scary thing to be faced with the prospect of being caught especially when the idea that we could go to jail for the "NO THOUGHT" things that we did or are doing. I believe that when we are running so hard in our addictions, we become deceivers, manipulators and mostly lose all rational thought regarding any consequences that we may face. I can remember when that narcotics investigator told me " you can't change what's already been done" and then told me about the charge "diversion" I almost passed out right there in his office. At first I wanted to sue evry doctor that had ever prescribed Vicodin to me because I felt that they were responsible for my addiction. I even called an attorney in my state that specialized in medical malpractice and , this will blow your mind, the advice that he gave me was this, he said " My wife is in a halfway house for a 75 Vic addiction a day, for doctor hopping and she is now facing 2 felony charges for DIVERSION." " I am in AA for my drinking." " The things that you think are so important to you right now, you will later see are really not but that your recovery should come first." Again, I was I was floored by what had just come out of his mouth. But, I did take his advice to heart and he was right. My recovery was the important issue at the time. Without it, there is nothing else except insanity or maybe even death. I read in another posting on this forum words of wisdom that I as well as others learned in rehab. That there are 10 to 15% of us that are prone to addiction and I won't get into all of the other aspects of this. You will need to go to detox or rehab to get the rest of that info. I hope that you will get help. I would literally pray that I would either just die or get caught. Well, I got caught and I would not trade one minute of it even as hard as it was mentally, physically and spiritually. Those areas are much stronger now due to education through AA/NA, I prefer AA as well, and my higher power, which is my personal relationship with Jesus Christ and my relationship with my family. Sorry to take up so much space but you need to know that we all are here to help if we can and you NEED HELP! If you don't hear it from those of us who have been there and know about what consequences it brings then you'll hear about from a judge who will tell you what the consequences will be. I pray that God will heal you and give you freedom from this addiction. JR~

[stars]

hi friends!  new kid on the block here. i would like to say that i am on my 3rd day of sobriety and i almost feel as though it has been too easy with the withdrawls.  i truly feel as though i wanted and needed so badly to stop my 16-20 hydrocodone a day habit that i have been involved with for the past 2 years.  i am not new to this message board.  i have been following closely for sometime now and have been given so much knowledge and strenght just from reading other peoples stories..  we are very lucky to have this refuge.  i owe alot of my WILL from all of you and i thank you.  my testamony is a long one, but my pain is real.  i plan on contacting all my doctors on Monday and telling them to never prescribe ANY type of opiate to me again, this also is going to be told to my dentist where my love for vicodin began.  

well i just wanted to say Hi and thank you from someone whos been watching from the sidelines.  this post is kinda hazy so forgive me.  very tierd.  my prayers will continue to each and everyone of you!

[Frenchee]

Hi there... I am so worried... I have been clean for 1 month now. I use to take Vicodin ES and Soma. I did go to 2 different doctors and one of them pulled out my history and saw that I kept getting those pills on a regular basis... One of the doctor sent a letter to my insurance saying that I was getting drugs illegally... (I did not know it was a felony and he is the ONE who prescribed them to me). I want to know what is going to happen? I am a single mother and I can not afford to get in trouble. Please let me know what I should be doing...

[JR.]

I got your post and I need more info. regarding your visits.

What were you seeing the 2 doctors for, if it's any of my business at all. Don't get me wrong, I am not a doctor, I'm just looking at the legitimacy of your visits. Only you know that.

As to the physician reporting to your insurance company about you illegally obtaining prescriptions, what did he base that on. Did he see that you were seeing another doctor simultaneously for the same complaints and getting painkillers from that doctor too. Maybe that is how he came to that conclusion.

If you can give me more details, maybe I can answer more clearly. One suggetsion that I would make is to ask a pharmacist that you feel comfortable with about your states prescription drug laws. I will almost bet that all states run along the same lines in terms of wording and meaning. Maybe just differences in penalties. Drop me a line.

JR.~

[Frenchee]

Thanks for your post... Well, my first doc was my MD. Pain killers were for endimitriosis (female stuff) and migraines. The other one was an ostheopath. He was working on my back and neck because I carry my stress there. I also had a "small" car accident (I do have the claim #) and popping my back was helping. He is the one who wrote the letter.... Now, my regular MD, who has been my doc for 7 years does not want to see me again. I am so disapointed... I am clean now. I thought that they would give me a second chance. Anyway, to get back to the subject, I am hoping that I am ok... What are your thoughts on that? Thanks again for posting. F

[JR.]

Interesting name. Is it because you are French?

Based on what you are telling me I don't believe anything is going to happen. I am still puzzled as to why your MD dropped you just because you were seeing a D.O.. How many scripts did you get between the 2? Were you getting multiples from one over the other? Or were you going back and forth between the 2 regularly getting scripts for pain meds. Sorry I ask so many questions but I know that you want answers and I need all of the info. Were there anymore doctors involved besides your MD and the D.O.? I am here to help if I can. I was wondering what happened to you. I am glad you're back. I am here for you.

In Christ's love, JR.~

[Frenchee]

Thank you for your post. Well, my MD was giving me about 30 vicodin es and soma every 10 days and I was going to the OD once a month to have my back popped (after a small car wreck) and he gave me 30 vicodin and 100 somas. The doctors did not know what I was doing... I first went to have my back worked on without asking for pills and he is the one who offered. Of course, I did not say no... trust me! One of the problem is that I still have back pain, headaches and have to deal with endimitriosis (female problem..already had 3 surgeries, another to come within 6 months). I beleive that ALL my doc (includind my dentist and OB) are aware of what I did which makes it really tough for me to face them. I just feel angry because they got me addicted (but I have been clean for one month today) but are not willing to face the circumstances. Also, there is a reason why I was taking those pills. Granted, I abused them. However, I am now ready to be careful and just use them as needed. I wrote a letter to my MD (and dropped it off at his office last nigth) telling him that I would not lie or abuse the pills but I did need them for what he diagnosed me with. We will see what happens. I asked him to give me a call... What do you think of all that? To answer your question, yes I am french. Use to live in Paris for over 20 years. I have been here for 7. Married an american but my husband passed away 3 years ago. I am now a single mother of a 4 year old son. Things have been pretty tough! I hope you are doing good. Thank you again for your support and your help. I look forward to your post. : )

F

[CATUF]

Hello All.  I've been "lurking" here without saying anything since 2/13, which was my first day out. I'm now at day 23 and feeling much better than I have in some time.  No doubt part of that is that I'm eating on a regular basis (what a concept), getting 7+ hours of sleep a night (instead of 3 to 5) and hitting the gym several times a week.

On the one hand, I'm not quite sure how I got here.  On the other, it's painfully obvious.

About 5 years ago I suffered a fairly severe injury that required surgery to repair breaks in my facial structure.  I remember being driven home the next day and really enjoying the feeling from the percocet.  I just felt good all over.  Happy.  Pleased to be with everyone and enjoying the (new found) beauty in everyone and everything.  

For the next 2 years, I used lesser versions (darvocet, mainly) from time to time.  An evening here, a week end there.  Maybe a few days in a row on a script for a back pain flair up.  Wasn't a problem.

The next year there was someone supplying about 30 darvocets a month.  Still wasn't a problem.  I'd go for more than a few days at a time with them, but they'd run out after 5 or 6 days and there would be no more until the next month.  By then I'd have more than recovered from the week on that was then 3+ weeks in the past.  I remember that source dried up 100% and I just thought "well, that's too bad -- but it's probably for the best anyway," but it was no big deal.  For the next 6 months I’d “run into” something once or twice a month – I kept my eyes open and was happy to find what I was looking for, but I wasn't bothered if I didn’t

Then, almost 2 years ago, I discovered a low but reliable source of Lortab.  So, for the next year I was sometimes into 5 or 6 10's a day for 2, 3 or 4 days followed by at least a week to 10 days without.  I still felt GREAT most of the time when on and only a slight, brief let down when they ran out.  Such use wasn’t even constant during that year -- I wouldn’t always “refill” when I could.  About half the time would wait (without forcing myself) 20, 30 or more days before I went on another (what I now think of as very minor) binge -- I wasn’t “quitting,” I just didn’t feel compelled or particularly interested in using at the moment.

I recall in October, 2000 a friend who knew of my “interest” offered me ½ of an order of 30 7.5's if I’d stop by and pick them up for him at the pharmacy because – a) he was out of money and b) he didn’t figure he’d need that many.  Of course I found it too good a deal to pass up, but I recall driving to his house thinking “why are you doing this: you’ve been off these for long enough now that you haven’t even thought about them in some time -- you know, if you keep this up, sooner or later you’re going to end up in trouble with them.”  (“some time” had been a little more than 2 months – and I find it very interesting now that only a year and ½ ago I did without for 60+ days without keeping track daily track or even finding it particularly noteworthy.

About a year ago, however, things began to change.  I was only feeling good for the first few days of a new batch.  Then, I was merely not feeling bad.  And, I started to get scared at the thought of running out.  When I did, I’d have what was like a mild case of the flu for a day or two.  But it wasn't "that" bad and after a week or so of living right, I'd decide I was ready to try it again -- excited, actually, because after the brief time off the buzz would be back, at least for the first few days.  I didn't stop, but it was hard to miss that I was in a rut and I began to seriously wonder (duh!) if I was developing a problem.

Last August saw another big uptick in supply.  I found a doc on line that added 60 10's per month and a "friend" that added an additional 90.  This was all on top of the prior 60 to 100, so I was now at around 250 10's a month.  I know that in early December, and since August, 60 10's would last about 5 days.  But in mid December another 90 (another “friend”) was added to the monthly mix and things were getting way out of hand.  Very soon 60 lasted only 4 days -- and I was looking for the next batch as soon as I found the last.  If I “failed,” I ended up in bed for at least a day and ½ “with the flu” (with 3 kids in school I was exposed to everything, I explained to those who noticed I was getting sick a lot this winter – “yes, your right, I’ll think about a flu shot next year.  Thanks.”)

In late January, all of my ships, so to speak, came in more or less at once -- I went at a record pace until the evening of 2/8 when I just crashed.  I had gone just too long with only 3 to 5 hours sleep in a night and very little food (but lots of Loratab & coffee) during the day.  I was on my way out of town that evening to meet family and friends but 60 miles down the road I couldn't go on and had to get a hotel.  Slept for 12 hours then did a fairly controlled taper on the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th. I missed the week end get away, explaining that I was just too ill.  I felt quite rotten and scared the rest of that week, but have been steadily improving since the 5th day out.

Here on day 23, I'm feeling better than I have in a LONG time – better than almost all the “peaks” during the past year.  And so much better than the lows that there’s no way to compare the two.  My confidence in myself is returning, I can think clearly again and the self-loathing is about gone.  I feel good about where I am now, but still very scared and ashamed of where I was and how easy it was to get there.  I’m glad to be out of what I can only describe as a fog, where it seemed as though I was several layers removed from the world and viewing it through the eyes of another.  Yet only yesterday, when one of those “friends” said “let me know if you need ANYTHING” I heard myself think: “well, if I only got 5, that wouldn’t be a problem.”  I glad that I listened instead to the other voice that said: “No, that stuff wants to consume you.  Say ‘no thanks,’ get something to eat and then go to the gym.”  

Thanks to you all: your contributions to this page have helped me a lot in the last 3 weeks. Sorry to go on for so long.

CATUF

[JR.]

Well I am certainly glad to know you Frenchee.

My Mother in Law is from Northern france, Marle to be more exact and her god-daughter still lives in Paris or right outside, in what I think is Orleans(SP?). Anyhow, I am sooo sorry to hear about your husband passing away and now it is just you and your 4 year old. I will certainly be praying for all of your needs to be met and if I can help you in anyway, please let me know.

I thought that this, your explanation of the doctors and the scripts, might have been like you explained. I can see why they did what they did. It's not only an issue of getting the scripts but it is  trust issue with them. If you stop and think about it, they did not know that you were getting the scripts from each of them, thus had they known, they surely would not have given you any more. You see, DEA will come in and audit doctors on the number of scripts that they are writing to look not only for compliance but to see if they are carlessly supplying people with scheduled drugs. I too felt that doctors were responsible for my addiction, at first, but when the one doesn't know that the other is prescribing also, what can we expect. I know that I did not have to take those pills although my mind and body were telling me I had to have them. My counselor from when I first entered rehab, did make the statement after reviewing my record, that it did appear to him that the doctors did "enable" my addiction much further than it should have gone.

Regardless, You now know that you can't see multiple doctors and get multiple scripts all in the same time frame. I am so glad that you are clean now for the past month. I hope that your sights remain on life without pain meds. If you were miserable in your addiction, then think about how you are coming out of the haze and how physically(without the pills) you now feel.

You may have to get a new physician because based on what you have told me, I don't think you'll get much response from your old one. I could be toally wrong. But in the event that you do get anotherr Doctor, establish a good rapport with him/her and tell him/her about your past. He/she will help you maintain. I am here for you and hope that I can help in any way that I possibly can. I had a good friend in the Marine Corps that married a french lady in Italy, where we were stationed, and he brought her back to the states about 20 years ago. You just reminded me of that.

In Christ's love, JR.~

[Ketta]

Hi All. I don't know if JF is reading today, but I wanted to address the cancer thing and why I was read the riot act. I was doc. hopping BEFORE they found my cancer. I didn't know I was doc. hopping- only in retrospect do I realize that. I too had really legit pain, but the doc.s didn't know about each other. Honestly, I didn't know the problems were all related. I know now.
Why should you stop- even if you NEED 'em, because it's gotta end sometime. I am watching my mother(56) and long time AA member, see I come by it honestly, who NEEDs dope and it just gets stronger, and stronger, and you're number and number, then you're in line at the methadone clinic. Doctor's don't give a rats **s if you're suffering! It's all about CYA and I know it. While doc. hopping, not all of them gave me dope. I had OBVIOUS symptoms, and would cry in pain, and they said, "hot bath, tylenol, etc." They weren't gonna give controled Rxs. Frenchee, it's VERY DOUBTFUL he'll give you dope now. If he did- that's malpractice potential as he's enabling, & reinforcing what has been considered an addiction. He's not gonna risk his license or practice. I would tell him you're getting help, and leave it at that...Jail SUCKS and lawyers are REALLY expensive ( i know) That is just what I think, I am not you, others will have their opinion as well, I'm sure.
As far as going back to the doc.s that got THE LETTER, I've done it. I didn't say anything. If they took my appt. they must believe I've got it covered. I went back to my otolarogist (tonssil doc., that's how this **** began- tonsilectomy in 2000) I love my dentist and feel bad that I got SO MUCH dope from him, and I've been back there too. Go to whoever you value as a doc. don't see them as a source.
They'll either accept your appt. or deny it. You hold your head up high and take care of yourself.

[lanas]

Your story could be me... me about a year from now if I'm not careful.  I started out with lortab after surgery--knee surgery that had to be repeated three times over a year.  After the third, I literally went 6 months only taking one a day.  Then I didn't take any for quite some time--perhaps 1-2 years.  Then it just started--it was like I went from nothing to loving them.  I have no doubt that if I could find the source, I would easily be at 15 a day, but I have (fortunately) not been that "lucky."  I have a doc that was giving them to me and then my pharmacist tipped him off that I was using 30 a week; it was like my doc didn't quite realize it.  So, after 4 months of getting up to 30 a week, I have none.  Haven't since Monday.  I do have ultram, though, and it has been keeping the worst withdrawal symptoms away, though I know I've got to stop it ASAP b/c I will go through withdrawal from it as well.  (I have before).   Your story is extremely good for me to hear, though, because it truly sounds very similar to how I am "evolving" in my addictions as well.  Thanks for helping me to keep my head on straighter.  I could not agree with you more; I have silently read posts on this forum and find the compassion to be astounding, not to mention just really really helpful.
HI Frenchee!  I could not agree more with Ketta--no matter what happens with your doc--hold your head high.  We'll talk (as you know).
JR--you seem incredibly knowledgable, and forgive me, where are you in terms of the addiction?  It seems you're free of the stuff, though still fighting the "need."  You have some wonderful thoughts too.  As I said to CATUF above, the compassion is a life-saver.

[JR.]

Hi Lanas,

Thank you for your kind words. This draws me closer and closer to each of you. Yes, I still get cravings especially when I know the availability of the Vic's out there. There may always be the craving but at least I have something to weigh it against. I am 284 days clean and as I said before, with all of the life that is in me, I WILL NOT GO BACK. I read some of the posts about having been clean for all of those years and relapsing. I am just as prone as anyone else. It could happen. But I look at it like this. If I go into that yard and that dog bites me and does everytime that I go in eventually I hope that I get the idea not to go back in. I have no desire to go back. I have already lost my career and had to start another long trek towards a retirement. I nearly lost my family and it is only by Gods' grace that I did not. There is no doubt that I was tempting death as well. I take it one day at a time. I don't want to know about tomorrow, only that I am alive today, thanks to Gods' grace and mercy, my family, and friends like you. The education that I am getting from you all is priceless! I too, am here for you. Let me know how I can help you. I'm here.

In His Love, JR.~

[lanas]

From reading another thread, it seems you had a career that was ruined by this stuff.  Well, I am in a similar line of work and have made myself well aware of the laws, and it IS felony convictions that await someone caught-- "dr. shopping" (which is what it is referred to where I am).  It is even more simple than that--you do not tell one doctor you are seeing another and if both are prescribing scheduled drugs, BINGO! You've committed a felony offense! Now, how often are these people caught and/or prosecuted?  I am not sure, but I do know it is happening at times.  Seems more people are caught "doctoring" scripts...  So far, I have done neither (and losing my license and therefore my job has so-far helped prevent me)... but I know the next few days are going to be maddening.  No vic since Monday and now I am out of ultram (dr. did not refill).  I'm so dreading it and I have had so many thoughts on HOW to get more!!  But you're tale hit me where my money is (and my passion) so I'm starting to rethink.  If I don't try a different dr. tomorrow, then I will HAVE to get through the weekend--scares the h*** out of me.  I am very spiritual (I must pray ten times a day) but haven't been able to turn that direction easily the past few days.  Suggestions?

[Jack Frost]

Hi Ketta,

You addressed a post to me and I am not sure why - did I comment on anther thread? So, I will try and address some of the issues in this thread.  I agree with you about Dr. shopping, it is a dead end. And, although I don't know if this is related, I also agree with you about holding your head up high when you visit a doctor. If you have pain, even if you are or are not an addict, you have rights as a patient and should be treated decently. Pain requires treatment, as does addiction. And any way one gets clean is a good way as long as it does not harm anybody, no one process works for every one. Addicts also vary - many are very powerful and can recover without support groups, many are powerless and need support groups. It is important that people retain their dignity when they decide to become clean and recovery is a two way street – one does not just preach to an addict, one must also listen. As I have said before, it is not a question of whether we need healing, most of us do, it is not a question of the technique we use to heal, it is a question of whether we really want to get healed. Once we reach that summit and are free  - it matters not so much which path we chose, but the destination we arrived at. Hope you are well, pain and addiction free.

JF

[Seamstress]

JF, just out of curiosity how much time clean do you have?  I am not asking this to be judgemental in anyway.  Just wondering how much sobriety your power has gotten you.  You know powerlessness is not weakness. It may be that power is. I see many recovering in 12 step programs with awesome years of sobriety - in the decades. I'm not saying there isn't more than one way to do it, it's just that whenver anyone mentions AA or NA, you come back with a post about how much power you have so maybe you can relate how that power has helped you achieve your sobriety.  I know I can relate how my powerlessness has helped me acheive mine.

[CATUF]

Day 25 (nice to put that diagonal mark on the 5th group of tics).  Seems easy to stay away from buying a large batch, but I keep being sorely tempted to get "just a few."  It almost seems to make sense, because I never got in trouble with just a few & I know they'd make me "feel like a new man."  I also know, however, that the first thing the "new man" would want is a few more, a few more, just a few more after that, and then just a few so I could get through work on Monday without feeling bad.  I also know that the feeling of wanting the first just a few will pass fairly easily, but the feeling of wanting just a few MORE wouldn't........ Hope everyone has a good weekend.

CATUF

[JR.]

Hey Man,

It is good to hear that you holding on. I know what you mean about "just a few". After having been using for awhile, there is no more "just a few." I can tell you right now that if I ever go back it won't be at a 2 or 1 at a shot start. I'll go right back to 8 at a time. There is no starting over. Our brains have that memory of that euphoric feeling. I can say this though, my euphoria was gone even though I was taking 8 at a time. The only thing that I was acheiving was a sure trip to the morgue. Man, there is nothing back there and I think that you know it.

Another little tidbit of info: Doctors look for the friday evening after 4pm visits by "seekers" looking to get through the weekend. Everything that we have done as addicts was perfected long ago by our predecessors. My doctors knew about every excuse and every ending sentence after each of my visits which was "Can you give me something for pain?" You don't need it. Yeah, I could justify in my mind how much pain I was in at the time but to quote my counselor when I first entered rehab was this:" I know that you have pain whether it is real or perceived, it's real to you." Don't get me wrong. I know that there are many of you out on the forum that have REAL PAIN due to disease and various other REAL MALADIES. That seems to be the catch 22 of it all. DO I WANT PAIN OR THE MISERY OF THIS ADDICTION THAT HAS RESULTED? Man what a quandry. I wish I had the answers. I don't. I only know what I NEED for my life and what I WISH for you all out there.  

I am here to listen and help if I can. WE all are. I Thank God each day for each of you. Maybe in all of this brainstorming we do from day to day, we can eventually come up with some solutions. Or maybe we can do enough to just make it day by day. Each day holds enough to deal with. Either way, we are in it together. It took me to go outside of myself after hitting that brick wall at 100 mph. I am not strong, I just know where I want to be.(Now.) It is the strength that I draw from my faith in God and the wisdom that I gain through each of you that keeps things in perspective. I am here for you.

IN HIS LOVE, JR.

[Jack Frost]

JR - two things about your post I appreciate, we are all in this together, those of us who have subustance abuse problems.

I also appreciate you focusing on the now. For years I considered my drug abuse too big to get my arms around. I looked down the road, how could I deal with work, friends, and a basic sense of loss due to many loved ones who died and a lack of faith in any thing in life. It was all too much to think about. Once a therapist told me something, she said you can't solve the whole future, you can only deal with today and whether or not you are going to stop abusing drugs, draining the life out of your soul and your family. It seemed so simple and so self apparent, but something clicked when she said that. All of a sudden I new the battle with the dragon was right now. And right now is more than enough to handle.

JF

[stars]

how i admire you!  you, i believe are stronger than you know.  i definitly do not want to get on a pedestal here and preach, but i have NO doubt that the last few weeks of my life have been God given.  i prayed for God to intervene, that i will accept his Will in whatever it would take to stop me from grabbing handfuls of Vicodin a day.  within a week He answered me... when i tried to get my 260 pills filled two weeks early(which i did every month) the pharmacy caught on and called my doctor which would not refill it that soon....  when the girl at the pharmacy told me that they wouldnt release the meds i almost fell to my knees with relief.... i knew without a doubt that i had been heard.  i welcomed my journey into withdrawls, and each day of being clean.  JR, i can relate to your faith, it is my each breath these days...  9 days without as of today...  even went to Disneyland...  aches and all...  was a beautiful, warm, fun day, and i wasn't screwed up! felt so so good....  God is awesome!!!!  God is so strong, and the driving force in each day for me now...  Because He lives......  stars

[JR.]

I am so glad to hear that you are relishing the life through sober eyes. I am so glad to hear that you are realizing that being clean can mean something in our lives. I am SOOO GLAD that your know where your strength comes from. And I say in agreement that God is AWESOME.

Please continue to look up each and every clean and sober day that we are given and remember each and everyone of them. I am really glad that you had such a wonderful day at Disneyland. At least now you are seeing through clean and clear eyes. I am certainly proud of your determination to maintain that sobriety.

Please take it one day at a time. Don't worry about tomorrow as there is sufficient "evil in the day thereof" I will continue to pray for your daily needs and please keep coming back to the forum and know that we are here for you.

IN HIS LOVE, JR.~

[stars]

hi my friend....  thank you as always for your support and kind words..  i look at everyday as a new day, but i also allow myself time alone each day to reflect on the last 3 years.  the evil that hangs among us is strong, and the demons we fight can make us very weak, but i know that GOD is the stronger running force.  talk to you soon JR.....

[JR.]

Well Hello My Friend,

It's been a few days but I am home again for the weekend. I don't have the e-mail access where my new job has taken me. I will keep in contact every few days, give or take a couple of days.

Thank you so much for your last post. I am glad to know that you do take time to reflect on things in your life. It sure beats living for the moment, by this I mean the way that we did in trying to figure out where our next batch of pills was going to come from. Whatever it took. We can also take that same philosophy and apply it to our sobriety. Whatever it takes to stay clean today, that's what I am going to do. You know, sometimes we have to "physically flee" from a situation that we are confronted with if that situation is detrimental to our lives. If we know that our sobriety is going to be challenged by the fact that we have an opportunity to get something "for the pain" then we need to RUN away. I emphasize RUN. I can say that now, after not being able to run when I needed to. I did not have it in me or maybe it was more "I did not want to run." Probably the latter one. As I said before, I now have something in my life that is greater than anything that I can be or do. God Almighty. I had to put self away and surrender. Self is destructive, for me anyhow. I thank God daily for this forum and the heart that he has given each of us to be there for one another. No, we are not experts but we do have something to offer one another and that is EXPERIENCE! I am greatful for you, Stars and all others on the forum. I look forward to reading each of the posts from day to day. I, WE are here for you. "And after having done all, STAND." See you soon.

IN HIS LOVE, JR.~

[kcaz]

I was wondering this is the first time I have ever used this site. And the only reason I have even looked into anything about Addiction's is because when I was with the mother of My son. Who I am no longer with she thought I had a problem with Vicodin I didn;t ofcorse. But I am starting to see a little problem now seeing that I got a refill 14 days ago of 180, 10/350mg Vicodin's and and they are now gone so I figured it out I have been taking somewhere around 12,13 a day. I have not always taken this many. But seeing that I have not been with my Ex for a little over a year I have prob. been taking to many for a while now. I am 22yr old male and have been taking these Vicodin's for 4 1/2 years now. Along with some muscle relaxers and anti-inflamtory's. I was just wondering if anyone could give me some advice about what kinda problems I could be looking at? I never thought is was a big deal but some of the **** I have been reading on this site of people have seizures when they went cold turkey is a little frighting.  Can anyone tell me how common that is> It is the first Time I have heard of it. The problem is I have no problem getting these vicodins that i have been taking. Any help or info would be great thx.........

[lanas]

Can you post a new question so that it would be closer to the top where others are more likely to see it?  You have a very good question and there are many on this site who will be able to help you and who will be more than *willing* to help you!  I too have struggled with vicoprofen and am day 15 clean; but I wasn't into the same numbers you're talking about, though MANY on this site have been (and I only say I wasn't b/c I didn't have the supply others have--believe me, if I could have gotten my hands on them, I have no doubt I would have been taking 50 a day!).  You definitely are right to want some help and to have questions answered; it's a great first step.  Try to post a question and see if you can get it where others are more likely to see it.  I'm just afraid you'll be lost down in this thread...

[Ketta]

Lanas, I identify with you. I read your first post about waiting for the "authorization" from the pharmacy and you'd "be there in 20 minutes..." that's me. I've gone 15 days without too. I still have pain, but suffer. It's the mental games. If I had access to the pills, I doubt I'd be clean 15 days.

Kcaz, did your doc. give you such a Rx and for the length of time? or are these bootleg, etc.? If you had a doc. dole 'em out, they should help you now. Some jerk off said folks should assume the dope is all illegal. In my case, it was given out and taken away by the doc.s. There are a lot of pain mgmt. patients here that offer tons of knowledge on this site. Stay tunned. Ketta

[lanas]

Yes, you're right--and at the time I made that post, the script was called in and I was there in less than 20 min!  As it is now, I could still probably get a script called in, but have refrained.  I am glad for it; though at times i literally "itch" to do so.  But I have found (through advice on this forum) that if I just wait it out even if for only short periods, it will pass and I can make it.  Then time will pass and eventually the "need" comes again... but again, if I just get through it, again, it will pass.  It does seem to work.  However, I know that there will come a time when I am in great stress and I will make the call.  I worry about that time; but I am hoping that no matter what, I will be strong.  One very good thing I have going for me (depending upon how you look at it) is that I do not have a doctor who is going to give me an unlimited supply--not even close.  I am looking at getting a script for 30 pills and then not another for 3 weeks... so unless I do something illegal, I will have to stay sane about my intake.  Anyway, forgive my rambling...   but sometimes it just feels good.  That's what I love about this forum.  How are you doing?

[kcaz]

I have had many different DOC's. I was In a Auto Accident And have severe back pain. I have three Blown Disc's. And do to my age there are not as many options to correct then if I was in my mid 30's or so. I have had at least 6,7, Docs and all have even me Vicodin some have not give me as strong of a dose but that just ended up with me taking more of them. So no these are not bootlegs.

[1fortheroad]

i too am guilty of dr. hopping - how exactly does one get caught?  do they bust you at the pharmacy, or do the cops just show up at your house?  i am very nervous now at the prospect of felony charges...i didn't know it was illegal - i just thought it was unethical.

[ssfr]

many ways to get caught doc hopping- thing is that more and more
states are starting to categorize specific drugs and users in their great big ole databanks-  and doc hops get caught right away-
yep- it can work for awhile, but eventually there will be a price to pay--and i would bet that price is too high

[sinful]

hello, new here,any problems talk to me

[sinful]

hi, i am new here, but i've been through many withdrawls from vicoden, oxycontin and the duragesic patch,i don't know which one was worse. i was in a car accident and broke my back and needless to say i lost my parents in this car accident.suddenly i was on morphine, then to vicoden and oxycotin and to the patch.i was very very depressed and ofcourse i became addicted to these drugs.my nuerosurgeon gave me vicoden and then switched me to a pain specialist who then gave me more meds.then it was the patch, i was suposed to wear one 1-100 but i put on 2 just to fell better, after a while, my back wasn't the problem it was these drugs.i lost about 40pounds on these meds and lost my period.i was picking my skin,going crazy my sister said, i was lost without these meds.finally my family caught on,and they brought ,me to a different pain specialist who was the biggest selfish person i ever met and she said to go cold turkey and that i wouldn't have any withdrawls at all and to work a full-time job and go to school at the same time-what was she thinking!i mean i went through these withdrawls like you wouldn't believe in bed for a month and felt like i was dying.and when i called her to see if this was normal, she said "no!, you shouldn't feel anything at all!,you should be working right now i never heard of what you are feeling-GOODBYE"!!!oh and "please do not call me anymore"!-this is when i was going these terrible withdrawals-i felt even worse to not no better that i should be going through these withdrawals.i never knew that others had gone through the same thing as me, thanks to this website, i do feel alot better now that i know that i am not the only one!i again took these pills- doctors caught on, and stopped this habit of mine,by stopping my acsess to these drugs.write back , i love to hear some advice , question-why is that i know that i will get teribble withdrawls, why do i continue to try to get these drugs? i know i'm addicted but why?

[whitemike]

I am 18 years old and i am a senior at my high school! I am addicted to hycodan (hydrocodone) cough syrup and lorcets. I all and all quit and this is my second day quitting and i feel so bad. All i want to do is lay in bed! how much longer will these withdrawal symptoms go on? I had to quit cause i got my whole life ahead of me and if i didnt quit now i wouldnt never quit! please help me!

[JR.]

Hey man, Welcome.

You know, just your looking for help and coming to this forum shows alot about yourself. Thanks for coming and keep coming back here. There is a lot of serious wisdom on this forum, wisdom learned from pain as the song says.

Give us some background on your addiction. How long have you been on the Hydro cough syrup and the Lorcets? How much a day/week? Tell us a bit about yourself if you're willing. The withdrawals are terrible at best but you will make it through it all. You will have loose bowels, cold chills, sweats, like having the flu. You will have no energy, lack of appetite, lack of sleep but your tail will be seriously dragging. This may last about 1 week. You may have depression which is Normal for the withdrawals. It may last for a week or a few. You may feel like you want to disappear from society but don't. It's all part of these horrible payments to the piper. We have all experienced these same symptoms, or at least a great majority of us. Some more, some less. You need to make a plan each day that you are not going to just lay down and waste away. You need to know that you are totally understood here. Does your family know about your addiction? what kind of support system do you have at home? Set goals each day to make yourself eat, get some sort of exercise, supplement your diet with multi-vitamins and keep yourself/mind occupied.

How did you get started on the cough syrup and lorcets? Tussionex was my choice syrup. It is bad stuff. Let me reiterate, WE are here for you. There is nothing in an addiction worth holding onto. All here can attest to the fact that it is a miserable dead end. I guess that I don't need to tell you that considering what you are experiencing right now. I will pray for your Mental/Physical/Spiritual healing.

In His Love, JR.~

[Frenchee]

Hi there.. I am back. I have been clean for a month and 1/2... I know I should probably be proud and happy but in all honesty, I am totally depressed, stressed, edgy etc. I have daily headaches, cramping and I CAN NOT handle it. I was doc hopping and my doc will no longer see me. Funny how they get you addicted and once you are clean and ask for help, the do not care. Anyway, what I am about to write is probably bad but I notice in one of the post that some of you got Vicodin via a doc on the internet. How do you do that? Is that Legal? I am going crazy and need some help.. Ketta, I know Vicodin is not the answer to my problem but I NEED TO FEEL BETTER.  Love you ALL.
F

[lanas]

First--Listen up here--YOU WILL BE OKAY; YOU WILL MAKE IT THROUGH.  Now, the second part is a little harder.  Getting through is not easy.  But it IS easier than hanging on and one, two or three years down the road having to go through this under some other "dire" circumstances.  Now, at 18 this won't mean a whole lot to you; that's okay; acutally, that's good.  (Best part would be if it NEVER meant anything to you!).  But point here is that if you do not stop now, you WILL be facing trying to stop AGAIN.  And the next time it will be more difficult; it will involve more poeple you love and care about.  And if you don't give it up then, well then you keep going and the next time it will be even more difficult because it will not only be more pople you know but it will directly or indirectly involove all of your family.... yes, WhiteMike.. as hard as it is, you are where you want to be under you current circumstnaces.  You're the Man!!!   I mean how many 18 year olds would have such control????? Way too cool.... I am impressed.  Use this ability to stay clean.... live through the few *days* of difficulties and go on to being all that life has for you.  Post here if you need it.  In the beginning, you might, but I would guarantee you, eventullay, you won't... you have it all in control.  It's all there for you, so start soaring......... and take off!!!!!!

[sinful]

hi , i'm disappionted that no one anwsered me but anyways, i am still craving for a vicodin, and i feel lost without them. i am so bored .i really depended on these pills do get me through the day, especially at work.

[sinful]

hi , i'm disappionted that no one anwsered me but anyways, i am still craving for a vicodin, and i feel lost without them. i am so bored .i really depended on these pills do get me through the day, especially at work.

[sinful]

i saw a great doctor-a neuropyschaitrist-he gave me wellbutrin 150mg 2x a day, with one serzone at night -i believe 150mg.this combination worked well with my addiction.these are anti-depressants.hope to hear from anyone -bye-

[sinful]

try wellbutrin 150mg 2x a day with one serzone-150mg-i believe,at night.this combination works well with addiction, these are anti-depressants. a great neuropychiatrist prescribed them to me.goodluck -bye-

[Frenchee]

I WANT TO KNOW IF ANY OF YOU HAVE EVER ORDERED FROM MEDICUSA.... (ON LINE SITE). I HOPE SOMEONE WILL BE ABLE TO LET ME KNOW.
THANKS

[GOD]

Yes, I know 3 people who have used medicusa.com. It is a legitimate service, BUT, if you are thinking of buying the Hydro or valium, FORGET IT. It WILL be seized by US Customs upon entry to this Country. I know from personal experience. I hope that answers your question. (Sorry- I know what you're going through, and I KNOW you wanted to hear differently-- Just look at it as a sign from God.. that's what I did. stay healthy!)

Jess

[stars]

great post jess....  i am praying that will bring her one step closer to inner freedom...

peace... stars

[Frenchee]

Jess, thanks for your post. Did all three get seized? Gee! Well, I guess I will wait and see... Thanks for the post.

[GOD]

To answer your question, My order of vicodin was siezed by customs, and one friend of mine had the same thing happen. I also tried to purchase Ultram online from another foriegn dealer, and they had great prices, so I ordered a WHOLE lot of Ultram from them... to make a long story short, I lost about $500.00 on the deal because even though Ultram is NOT a narcotic, it is now ILLEGAL to tranport ANY drug into our borders. In other words, you can't even buy ASPIRIN online and expect it to be delivered. Don't be fooled by these companies- IT IS LEGAL for them to sell you ANYTHING (Even MORPHINE and/or HEROINE, and they WILL send it to the USA... Unfortunately, Customs / FDA will seize it, and the end result is that they will just send it back to wherever it came from, and you will be "Blacklisted" by the Customs Service. You CANNOT get your money back from any of these companies-- all they will do is give you "Store Credit" which is useless, because anything that they sell is Illegal to import into the USA. So if you want to get hold of ANY of the drugs that you REALLY want/need... you just have to find a crooked doctor, or buy them illegally on the streets... Either way, you WILL LOSE in the end. It is not worth it. Just suffer through the pain of the withdrawls-- eventually, you WILL feel better, and you won't be a slave to these chemicals!

Best of luck!
Jess

[sinful]

i am surprised no-one has written, where is everyone? please write, i do need you to help! ihope everything is ok respond soon

[GOD]

Hi there, and welcome to our forum.

In your post, you mentioned that there were no replys.... If you want to talk to MANY people about a particular issue, just post on the top or NEAR the top of this page. It's too bad to have to do it that way, but as we all know, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to start your own thread by asking a question.

I hope all is good in your life!
Jess

[stev e]

I HAVE READ YOUR POSTS, AND THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS YOU TOUCHED ON. IN YOUR ORIGNAL POST YOU TALKED ABOUT A CAR ACCIDENT, AND I FEEL TERRIABLE ABOUT YOU LOSING YOUR PARENTS. IF YOU HAD THE TASTE OF MORPHINE, OXY, VICS, YOUR BODY AND MIND GOT TO LIKE THE FEELING. I BELEIVE SOME PERSONS MAY BE HAVE AN ADDITIVE NATURE. THERE SEEMS TO BE A NEED IN YOUR LIFE FOR ARTIFICIAL "GOOD FEELING" WHICH FOR MOST SHOULD COME NATUALLY. I BELEIVE SOME-ONE IN YOUR FAMILY "TIPPED OFF" THE DOCTOR WHICH WAS VERY TO THE POINT. I KNOW IT SOUNDED REALLY CRUDE WHAT THE DOCTOR SAID, BUT SHE PROBABLY DID YOU A FAVOR IN THE LONG RUN. YOU MAY WANT TO SEE A DOCTOR ABOUT DRUGS SUCH AS PAXIL, OR ZOLOFT WHICH SEEMS TO EVEN OUT YOUR FEELINGS, SO THERE IS NO FLUXUATION IN MOOD SWINGS. I THINK YOU MAY HAVE TO TRY IN THIS AREA, INSTEAD OF GOING DOWN THE ROAD OF DESTRUCTION OF OPIATES. THE VERY BEST AND GOD BLESS