Hydrocodone and ethanol abuse

I am a 48 year old male with a chronic back condition (multiple HNPs). I began recieving hydrocodone for back pain when the condition was diagnosed and the pain was acute. It no longer is, I function well 99 percent of the time with stretches and exersize. The problem is I began to abuse the hydrocodone.In addition I am a heavy drinker. For the last 4 years I have been drinking 4+ drinks a day and taking 4 norcos a day. I realize this is abuse. I can not enter into rehab for professional reasons - my career would end. I am trying to find a pen pal to help me through this. I am also trying to find a way to detox. I have a plan which will in a period of 3 weeks titer down on the hydros untill I am off them. In addition I will decrease the ethanol and start taking antibuse I have obtained (I've taken antibuse before). I can not I repeat, cannot seek medical help in person at this point. Once I am off the etoh and hydros I will get a liver profile - I fear I've completely damaged it. My family life and professional life has begun to suffer - I can't concentrate or retain as well.

I would appreciate any constructive advice on how to get off these pills and any resources to contact. I am fully responsible for this additicion so please don't flame me or attack my character - I already know what I've done. I just want avenues of assistance here or through a pen pal.

Thanks for listening.

Frank.

[Frank]

Thanks for your response, I really appreciate it and I am very motiviated. May I ask a potentially outrageous question. I can probably procure Buprenorphine from overseas pharmacy. Does it only come in IM mechanism - the idea of injecting anything scares me, or are there po methods. Consiering I could find proper directions of administering it myself, what are the dangers, feasiblity etc. in your opinon. I am not asking for medical treatement, just opinions.

Also, I am still wondering if there are pen pals for such a  process as I am attemtping.
Thanx

[Frank]

Guess this is a rather pedestrian post given the minimum response. I do appreciate your response Dr. Steve ( I did go to your site), but I am still wondering if there is an agent I can use to help with detox. Other unanswered questions - what's the likelihood given my history that my liver is history?

Is my use of hydrocodone and ethanol excessive, borderline, nothing to worry about etc..? Can I purchase a liver profile, bloodwork on the net without a local MD (again, this is motiviated by concerns for my livlihood)?

I am fully aware that I have limited my options by choosing not to go to a counselor or a facility - but I don't think I am alone with this problem.

In addition, if there are no 'pen pals' (perhaps one could call them virtual counselors)I would suggest the idea has potential.

Anyway, you guys have a very nice board and I appreciate it.If anyone else has some advice, I'm all ears. I could use the help.

Thank you again,

Frank

[tom to Frank]

actually, there's nothing pedestrian about your posts.

Almost all of us are addicted to some kind of rx opiate, usually hydrocodone, can't get off the stuff by ourselves, and are often concerned about liver damage.

I would love to be your pen pal for detoxing with bup but I live in a primitive region of the world called California. Private doctors can't prescribe bup or methadone for the treatment of addiction, only pain.

I, too, cannot openly go the detox route without jeopardizing my professional standing.

Even if I could wangle the bup from overseas, I still wouldn't know enough to use it without professional supervision.

In California, I can go to a methadone clinic, something I might have to do by default, or I can wait until the promised legal clearances go through to allow me to go to a private doctor to be treated. I have been unsuccessful in finding anyone who knows when this will become legal, if ever.

You can find posts by Maryanne in several threads on this site She has been going to a Dr Gooberman, who practices in another state, and is in the middle of the whole detox by bup process. I'm sure if you addresses her she would be glad to correspond.

If you do get all this figured out, I could use a "bup pen pal," too. Good luck.

[Frank]

Thanks Tom. I appreciate the reassurance. This is an unsusually constructive board. I will persue the overseas b. route as well as the pen pal option ( learned a little about both today from the NA site and other boards) and will share here if that's ok. Again, thanks for the positive response. It's quite a road to hoe.

F.

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

First let me say that I am happy for you that you've made the decision to quit abusing alcohol and hydrocodone.  I was drinking and taking them myself.  I'll tell you what I did:  first I quit drinking - tapered actually then quit altogether.  I was "clean" from alcohol for about two weeks when I started my "at home detox" with buprenorphine.  The doctor gave me 3 injections of buprenorphine to take SUBCUTANEOUSLY or "skin popping" injection.  I had no opiates after midnight then started the next morning.  I was to take one per day (at the same time each day) for 3 days.  Along with that he gave me baclofen pills for muscle aches and clonidine for "withdraw symptoms"  I now know that the clonidine is used because your bloodpressure will go up (extrememly high sometimes)  I took the pills everyday as prescribed along with the buprenorphine.  I started this on Tuesday of last week and on Friday morning woke up with a POUNDING headache - went to the ER and OH JOY - turned out that I had a bad case of sinusitis!  So the detox went well until Friday.  I was very scared to start and understand where you are coming from.  If you type "Lance Gooberman" into the address bar on your computer then click on US OPIATE DETOX link - you will get detailed info on this type of detox.  I went to the doc and gave a fake name and no social security number to protect my identity.  I am worried about you and hope you fare well.  Listen, it was good to know that I could call Dr Gooberman to ask questions when I wasn't sure about something so please consider going thru a doc.  What state do you live in? Maybe there is a detox center near you.  I thought that when I was on my way to the ER (with my AA sponsor) that I was going to be admitted to "Princeton House" for inpatient detox then found out that what I was experiencing was actually a "sinus infection"!  So today I feel okay just have a headache (to be expected) but am on antibiotics for the s.i.  but as far as the pills go - I am thanking God I am off them and DON'T EVER WANT TO TAKE ANOTHER ONE AGAIN!  Good luck, I will be waiting to here how things are going.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I wouldn't worry too much about any significant liver damage just yet.  Four drinks and four Norcos per day for four years doesn't seem like a lot to me.  Alcohol and acetaminophine combos are hard on the liver, however, and it would be wise to not abuse these substances.  The liver does have the ability to heal, given help.

I've had to give myself IM meds in the past and it's not that tough after the first time.  I administered in my upper thighs using a micro needle.  At first it was scary but you get used to it.  My doctor RX'd me Emla Cream(lidocaine&prilocaine 2.5%)to deaden the area before administration.

I wouldn't try to quit both hydrocodone and alcohol at the same time.  Personally I would concentrate on alcohol first and later on, the hydro.  I've seen people try to quit alcohol and nicotine for example and it's just too much to handle when they are just starting out.  Good luck to you!

[Frank]

Tom, Maryanne, JB and all. Again, I really feel as if I can do this thing. Maryanne, I am afraid of yet another analgesic agent so I am skipping the sources for now. I may have to resort to them so thanks for such clear advice re: options. And I was really inspired listening to you!

I am just going to titer down to damn near nothing w/ hydros and, JB I agree stopping hydros and etoh at the same time is unrealistic. As soon as my antibuse arrives I plan to titer down in a week and stop the etoh then, much longer, probably a month for the hydros. My problem will be delusions - thinking I can up a dose one day etc. I will have to be vigilant. Would you guys mind letting me vent here? For the first time in a long while I feel I am not alone and there are intelligent, empathetic folks who can help.Thanks again.

F,

[cindi]

Frank,  I just read your post and all the responses. These are all very reliable people and this is a site I have come to respect.  We are all in this together.  When I was first detoxed in 1990, I was working in a very large hospital with some top surgeons etc.  I kept my "secret" to myself with the idea that I would sit with needles sticking out of my body til I was 95 years Old.  An intervention was done and i was "sent" to rehab.  I soon found out that this place I went to was for Professional, Nurses, Doc, lawyers, judges etc.  I realize how you feel given your profession etc. but many, many professionals are victims of the disease of addiction.  Someone mentioned in another thread that chronic pain people are involuntary victims is the way I think he phrased it.  I never really looked at it that way.  You are very adamant that professional help is not an option for yu and I respect that, but please, do not let that get in the way of perhaps saving your life one day.   Take care and Good Luck.   Cindi

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Cindi, would you mind saying what state that your rehab was in?  Thanks I hope that it is not too personal a question.
Thanks,
Shelly

[tom to Frank]

vent here? ah, well .....OK. (you're here for the same reason as the rest of us and venting is what this forum is especially good for!)

Even though we all have the same disease, there is always something every addict's story can teach.

Way Good luck with the hydro tapering. While waiting for buprenorphine to come to California in the private doctor setting, I "maintain" myself, that is, I function and do my job and pay my bills and stay involved with my family through daily, measured doses of Darvon and occasional Xanax (occasional meaning 4 a day). The irony is not lost on me that Darvon is chemically related to methadone. Unfortunately, it doesn't off the across the board relief that methadone maintenance would. I've been an rx opiate addict for 30 years (thirty), so whatever measure I do take will have to be "serious medicine."

Tapering for me? I've found it next to impossible to make it stick for long, as my 30-year record of opiate use will attest to.

Even if I can get the bup detox, I'll still need an industrial-strength AA/NA program to stay away from the stuff. From that perspective, methadone maintenance might be the "surer" of bets for me. I've checked out the clinics in my area, all 2 of them, but will only be accepted by one of them if I bring a note from my doctor, effectively cutting off the only legal supply of darvon that I have. I have the option of getting "certified" by another doc, then going to the clinic. But the finality of methadone maintenance both attracts and scares me. If possible, I'm going to give the bup cure a try first.

But, yes, vent away. All us rx addicts are more than happy to talk about our experiences and listen to yours.

[tom to Maryanne]

I didn't realize you did the false ID thing with Gooberman. I'm impressed. But doesn't that highlight how ridiculous this whole treatment situation is? It's available everywhere, but having the problem is still so socially unacceptable that we're all afraid to use the help. Hope you're doing fine.

[Marryanne]

I am doing great.  I feel like a slave who was set free!  I was ready to stop and had hit my bottom.  Now I feel like I'm on top of the world.  The sinusitis in under control with a major antibiotic and my sponsor sort of made me "Rat myself out" to the ER in Princeton - so there it is, I am an opiate addict on record but honestly, I do not care.  For I am finally free.  I've been going to daily meetings and find this is the only way for me right now.  I don't have any inkling to want to put a pill in my mouth - NOT AT ALL.  I am so grateful to be outta the mess I was in and was SO sick on Friday, Saturday that I NEVER want to feel that way again!  I'm not sure if I was sick from the sinusitis or withdraw or combo but I know I don't want to go back there...Anyway, I am tempted to drink alcohol now so that's what I have to be careful of...it will lead me back, I know it.  So, for now, daily meetings, working out and praying are a part of my program.  Take care and good luck to you when you decide what you are going to do.           God Bless, Maryanne

[from me to Skorchee]

Why not drive down to Mexico, pick up some Buprenex tablets and do this yourself? Hell, they may have the syringes. You're in So.Cal so it's not a far drive. Take 2 days and go check it out. Be as honest as you want down there or not. I have definitely seen Buprenex available at "over the border" pharmacy sites on the web...thinking that there might be syringes available down there is definitely NOT far fetched. I don't know if you've thought of this already, but you should try it. I've purchased narcotics in Mexico w/o a prescription and while it is a little dodgy, it didn't seem too out of the ordinary. I think if you actually went and saw a doctor down there, you would definitely get what you need. Money really helps in these situations down there too. Anyway, just a thought. - You know who.

[tom to Maryanne]

so happy to hear how well you're doing! Sounds like you've got a pro-active sponsor, too, which helps. Not everyone, even after a lot of sobriety and a good personal program, makes an effective sponsor.

It's certainly sounds like bup is the way to go!

It's sounds like an excuse, but keeping my present job is critical and I'm working literally day and night for the next couple months. The software business is not for the faint of heart!

I got the Lindsmith center name from one of Doc Dan's recent posts (www.lindsmith.org) and found the legal docs describing opiate agonist treatment regulatory changes that are definitely going into effect in March of this year. It doesn't do anything for getting the bup privately, but it will widen the availability of methadone and LAAM sources and takes the authority out of the hands of the fascist DEA bastards. I may wind up going that way.

I'm still hoping there is some companion legislation still working in California that will give me what I want. My immediate problem is, one, I need to keep my anonymity for professional reasons (like Frank), so I can't just stagger into the nearest rehab and commit myself (as easy as that would actually be) and, two, I know from experience that, even if I get my hands on the bup and decide to do it myself, I still will realistically need a week off work to get it done. I simply can't function at work in any kind of withdrawal-related condition. So, I need to wait out my company's "crises time" related to needing a new software release in order to go IPO in a few months. Then, when I can get a week clear, I will do SOMETHING. I'm not sure what. But, right now, I literally don't have the time to go to one of Dan's current meth clinics, I'm that pinched for time and breathing space. I'm sure you know how it is -- when you do something like write for a living, you're utterly dependant on keeping in the right mental space in order to concentrate and produce work. I haven't written in any mindspace other than my opiate state of mind in thirty years. So it's the"when" that's tricky for me right now when it comes to detoxing and really cleaning up.

I won't go away though, I've been doing this for 3 decades, so I suppose I can hold on a few more months.

One thing you said I want to vigorously second, YOU CAN'T DRINK! Don't even think about it. Alcohol is the "great disinhibitor' and it will without a doubt lead you back to pills. That's a 100 percent certainty. I can't stress that enough. After what you've gone through, it would be a shame to ruin it by rationalizing that you "deserve a reward," or "alcohol really wasn't my problem." These are the most famous last words of a relapsing addict. Ask your sponsor. Booze, even beer, would be a disaster. Nuff said.

Let me say again how happy I am for you. Stay in contact with us on the board. We need your inspiration!

[tom to Doc Dan]

what do you think of the new federal reg info on the Lindsmith site?

[tom to you know who]

thanks for the Mexico idea, but, realistically, I'd never follow through on project like that. The last thing I want is even the possibility of police contact, and the Mexico thing would definately increase the chances of that. I am not going to do anything that isn't professionally supervised. It's just the way I am. But thanks for thinking of me. Take care.

[Gina]

I just read your posts re: having 1 week off and doing what? Detoxing with the bup? If there is anyway you can go to the meth clinic, I would highly recommend it. I went there this am about 6:45 and was out in 2 minutes after getting my dose. I am up to 60mgs and am doing very well at that dose. I will not have to go up any more. I feel great! I have no craving for other opioids. I never thought I could ever say that. I found out that this is called a blocking dose, it not only blocks your craving but if I did take some pills I would not be able to feel it. Dan, is this true? That would even make me happier. I have my life back. I am interested in all activities from chores to work to going out. It has been 3 weeks and I've learned alot of info. Dosages vary for everyone. There is another lady who is taking 80mgs while a man is taking 45mgs but feels he may need more since he has difficulty sleeping and constantly craves. I attend 1 inhouse meeting weekly. I see my counselor 1 every 2weeks for a 1 on 1. I must also attend 2 to 3 NA or AA weekly. I am leary of bringing up the methadone at the meetings because I know it will be frowned upon. This clinic is very well run and they care. When it's time to detox they take you down 5mgs every 2 weeks. Near the end when it gets harder they will even go to 3mgs increments. I feel very lucky. Thanks to Dan for all his positve info. that helped me go in the right direction.

[Chad B]

Check out www.asam.org

[tom to Gina]

The meth option will always be there and I may very well take it. What did they say about maintenance? It sounds like you're going to be detoxed shortly. I've heard it's not pleasant. If I went with methdone, I think I'd be hard to convince about detoxing. I'd just stay on the stuff. For the next few weeks, my job would prevent me from attending all those mandatory AA/NA meetings that are going to pretty much take over your evenings. When this software product I'm working on is out the door, I will take one of the options. One question: are you an RX opiate addict, i.e., pills, or were you doing heroin? The one clinic in my area that will even consider me requires that I get a doctor to "certify" my addiction. That's do-able, of course, but it's just one more thing that stops me from "launching" into the process. I absolutely won't cut off my one legal supply of opiates, so I have to engage another doctor and try to get certified by him. I would still like to at least try the bup detox and see what happens. If I relapse, then I suppose it's the meth clinic for me. But if I detox with bup and relapse, why wouldn't the same thing happen if I entered a program like yours, detoxed off the meth, and then ...meetings, meetings, meetings, I guess. Not that that's a bad thing. I deeply respect AA and have learned much about my disease through them. Thanks for thinking of me. Good luck in your recovery.

[Gina]

I was taking about 40 pills a day. I wasn't picky, any opiate would do. Lorcet, darvocet and some percocet just to name a few. I never got the chance to experience oxycotin or heroin for that matter. As for detox,I believe that when you feel like you are ready they look at what you have done to change your lifestyle. Then they start to decrease you by 5mgs every two weeks to make sure you are not uncomfortable. If you start to experience withdrawl (withdrawal) they stop the decrease until you adjust. That was my biggest fear of doing this. One guy stated he was thinking of starting to detox but the counselor asked him if he was going to meetings or if he had a sponser. When the man said no, the counselor said that he will go right back on the streets while detoxing since he didn't build a foundation. I would like to get some take homes. You have to have three clean urines and I haven't been tested yet. I guess about three months into the program before that happens. If you show a dirty urine while you are getting take homes you lose that priviledge and have to earn it back. BUMMER! There was a girl in front of me who was about to get her dose and the nurse said you have to take a urine today. She said,"I don't think I can go" The nurse said ,"I can't medicate you if don't give one." I know that this girl came from another facility that didn't care about the people, just their money. If she had said she "couldn't go" they would have said to just come in tomorrow and give one. So she gave one so she could get her meds today. I DON'T crave one bit and will not take the chance of having a positive screen. I have never stopped using due to cravings. I have even taken chances when I was on probation. Now I have a different outlook. I will keep you posted, please do the same. I'd like to hear what you decide and how it's going. THANKS!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I see that you have some experience with the Darvon compounds so I have a question for you.  In plain English, how does Darvocet compare to Lorcet?  Yesterday my doctor said that he will try me on Darvocet for a while when my current RX for Lorcet runs out.
I am more than a little concerned about this change of medication.  I'm happy with things the way they are and have been really good about not abusing the Lorcet(no early refills or need for higher dosage).  I would value your opinion here because the last time I had Darvon was at least 30 years ago.  J.B.

[tom to J.B.]

don't go along with that switch. Darvon is a weak opiate agonist compared to hydrocodone. Darvon's effect is centered more around the "side effects" of opiates, such as euphoria and addiction. But it won't hold a candle to your Lorcet in pain killing power. Some studies say darvon is no better than tylenol as far as pain killing power goes. It's a bad trade, J.B. Don't do it. Say hi to Miss M for me.

[Skorchee]

I think the best thing for you to do is to taper.  That is the only way you can do it by yourself without professional help.  Decrease the alcohol and the pills a little at a time day by day.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks for the advice on Darvocet.  I'm not about to change horses in mid-stream now and I hate changes anyway.  Miss M is fantastic!  Never a dull moment with her in my life.  To those who don't know who Miss M is--she's my wife.

[To Tom and rest of forum from Maryanne]

Tom, just read your post about not being able to detox while working and I laughed!  You are SO right.  I was actually going to schedule a "vacation" from work to do this.  I was so determined to find a way.  I know you will be okay Tom and I would like it if maybe we could email each other sometime.  My address is ***@**** - I would like to talk about a few things I don't want to post here, so could you email me?  I may have a solution to your problem!  Hope to hear from you soon.  By the way, if you decide not to - it's okay, I understand perfectly and will still correspond here on the forum and not feel offended.  Take care, Maryanne

[tom to Maryanne]

look for a post from ***@****. Let me know if it doesn't get through. Microsoft and AOL are not the best of friends, and probably don't treat each other's mail services with a high degree of priority.

Anyone can e-mail me privately at this address if they want to. Peace to all.

[Frank]

Sorry to post this twice - I mistakenly posted it below. I wanted to put it in the right thread. Thank you all so much, I feel I have a chance for the first time in years:

__________________________________________________

Comment By: Frank on Tuesday, January 30, 2001



Well folks,

When I originally posted it was kinda of like hurling a rock into the sky, not knowing or caring where it would land, just a moment of frustration when I could be honest with someone. Obviously it's virtual honesty, but the people in this thread are just like me. Addicted, wanting to change, not wanting to change, intelligent, functiong people who are trapped. I have see so much caring and inspiration in the last week, just in this thread. I think maybe you will be my friends. Oh I have plenty of friends who think I am successful, a family man, a great guy to have a beer with etc. But there is not a soul in the world I can talk to about my dependence on pain killers. I just want to say thank you all for your kind words and encouragement to each other. Tom, hang in there. I think what I see here is insight - we may not have a lot of other good characteristics and I even consider myself an upscale junkie, but I really want a better life and can really feel for the first time that others out there have the same regrets and suffer from the despair I do. That means something, it really does.

[Frank]

Back again, briefly folks. BTW thanks Skorchee. I am indeed going to try and go it alone. I have a question. I don't think I  can stop the ehtanol and hydro at the same time. So I have ordered som antibuse to stop the booze and then focus on the hydro. My question, can i take hydro with antibuse? Or will the antibuse and hydro make me sick. Thanks folks. I will keep all posted.

Frank.

[Frank]

Kelly,

You are right, those are all very real, very sad and very hard. I don't know how to deal with that aspect until I get clean or cleaner. So that is why I am trying to clean up and then deal with that. So, now what I am facing is the detox and, with all due respect, I am on 40 mgs. of hydro, 1 mg of zanax, 10 mgs. of valium and 5 ounces of ethanol a day. I don't know how one could term that detoxing situation easy, but maybe you know something I don't. I do agree with you though and the issues you are talking about are the same ones that bother me also.

Take care,

Frank

[kelly]

you guys are all missing the point.  Detoxing is the easy part--what about the relationships the addiction strains--what about the behavior of intentionally hurting yourself--what about dealing with the secrets and the lying??? How do I change or deal with those??!?!?!?!?

[tom to Maryanne and anyone interested]

It's funny how some things (potentially) fall into place. My virtual demotion at work for missing a meeting led to a bad performance review that inspired me to "loose the hounds," that is, set the recruiters to work for me in my industry. I have interviews lining up for this coming week and, while only on probation at work (not fired), I've pretty much decided to leave my current job as of Monday. New jobs are already in the works and I'm not worried about being out of work for a week or so. The interesting things is, a councelor at The Matrix center, a body of academics that studies drug addiction treatment models spoke with me this afternoon and the bottom line is I may be able to spend my idle week in between jobs at Matrix's UCLA study getting the buprenorphine detox I've been seeking these last few months. It's still all in the air and nothing is definate yet, but having those few days off and access to the Matrix program might give me the chance at a clean and sober life I feel I'm ready for. The irony is, if I had not gotten in trouble at work, I'd never have gotten the time off to do the buprenorphine detox. I repeat that the UCLA thing is not arranged yet but looks likely. I ask you, my friends, to remember me in your prayers. I can use all the help I can get right now. I apologise for leaving such discouraging posts lately, but you are the only souls in the world who would understand and I needed to tell someone how low I was feeling. Words cannot express my gratitude for the supportive posts left by some of you in the last few days. I cannot tell you how much you all mean to me without sheding a few tears. Thank you for being my friends.
Your friend,
tom

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

God does work in mysterious ways and the point is that we cannot be "out to lunch" and miss anything that he hands us.  

Don't be ashamed of the way you've been feeling lately!  I for one understand everything that you have tried to convey to us through your posts here.  You have a good background in AA philosphy and spirituality plus a brilliant mind.  You will make it, my friend!  J.B.

[tom to J.B.]

thanks for the encouragement. But you know what? To call you friend, and have you call me friend, knowing all you know about what I have been and what I continue to be, means more to me than I can ever say. Live long J.B. If I could give you half my liver I'd send it FedEx to your door tonight. Would that it could be so.
Give Marty a peck on the cheek for me and remind her of the fine man she has at her side.

your friend,
tom

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Thanks for that offer!  BTW, I know someone who may be going through a partial liver TX next month.  The trouble is that his closest match is his nine year old son.  The son is more than willing to give his father part of his liver.  God, I don't know what I would do if I were in the father's shoes!

It sounds like you are in much better spirits.  Be well and take care of yourself and Bobbie!  J.B.

[Thomas02]

HI, spook,
question, do you know of a legal way I could obtain buprenorphine through an Aussie pharmacy? I've also heard that hydrocodone 7.5 mg with asprin is an OTC drug in Australia. That sounds too good to be true. Is it?
I've considered taking my chances in Mexico, which might prove to be my best bet. It's just that you see these "onlinepharmacy" and "onlinepillbox" sites that promise you a legal way to purchase bup and other controlled substances. My question is: even if it's OTC in another country, isn't it still a controlled substance as soon as it hits our border? I'm really tempted to get bup from across the border but don't want the DEA on my doorstep. Has anyone had any experience buying opioid drugs like buprenorphine or hydrocodone in Mexico? I'd like to hear from someone who's actually done it, either in Mexico or by buying the drugs online from sites in other contries. I would like to get off of opiates and see bup, properly administered and tapered on the right schedule, as a practical way to do it.
Spook, you seem so knowledgeable and open-minded. Can you help me? Do you have any advice in general to people in the USA trying to get such drugs online from foreign sources? Thanks in advance.

[spook to Frank]

Frank buprenorphine is available as a subligual tablet in Australia.

[spook]

Howdee,Unfortunately it is not true that Hydrocodone is available OTC in Australia,here where I live,in any state,actually Hydrocodone is not even used as a pain killer here, it is only available as Schedule 8,which would be Schedule 2 in USA,however Dihydrocodeine(Hydrocodeine)is.It is better than Codeine but I heard not as pleasant as Hydrocodone.
If you really have to you can make Hydrocodone out of codeine EXTREMELY easily using a one step process,involving a metal catalyst and a dilute acid solution.Now of course,this info is provided just for interest sake only,you notice I did not name the 2 chemicals needed.Personally I think it is to easy,I really do not want to do it,and have not as yet,but if I was in bad pain and had problems getting a Doctor to prescibe me some painkillers ,well I guess I would have to make my own,actually I have not tried Hydrocodone and do not know if it would even be much fun,I know Oxycodone is,etc,etc.
Whats this info about Xanax(Alprazolam)tell me why you won`t discuss it on this forum and then I give you my email address.

[laurili]

I was on percocet, hydrocodone, and most opiates for a year now. Three days agio I just stopped the most I usually took in a day was 30 mg. for three days I had a fever  and total flu-like symptoms , I actually questioned weather I had the flu..  Look 3 days of the flu is worth quitting.. The problem is missing the act of taking them, not so much the high just the fact of taking them and looking forward to not being bored.. If that makes sense?