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I give up
by shubunkin, Oct 01, 2002 12:00AM
Hello to all out there. I have been taking Xanax for about 8 months now and I am tried 3 times to get off by tapering. I am a mother of 2 children and cannot take the stress plus the tapering. I hate being dependent upon a drug for my mental well being but it seems it is going to be that way. My husband is not very understanding and alot has gone on in my life in the past year. I am tired of trying and tired of worrying myself to death of being labled an "addict". Will it really hurt if I am on them the rest of my life at the age of 28. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Danielle
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a cold shot at trying to get some of the old timers to fire back at me.If you go back to yesterday and this morning you will find the seven apologizes I posted.I am beyond this **** now.Me and Groovy have a difference in opinions about this forum and that is the only problem we have.She knows this and I know this.She is welcome to post anything she wish.And I am also going to post what I wish.Her post this morning sounded like a cry for help but since I was the one who was a war with her the past few days I stayed out of it,just like I should have last week.
ONCE AGAIN I HAVE APOLOGIZED 7 TIMES.
Groovy girl,
I am sorry I said the mean things to you.I was wrong.I was already mad and when I saw you firing back at someone I had been helping I fired back at you.I am a 44 year old man and I don't need to act childish any longer.I am truly sorry,Please forgive my ignorance.This is very very heart felt.I mean every word.
Now lets get on to addiction and helping people that ask for our help!!!!!!!!!!!TRUCE,PLEASE., Thanks Skipper.
Bill
to Groovygirl or Am I the only one that sees it.OK let me share
something that means alot to me.It comes from a man that just died in August. We miss you Mikey!
I was walkin'the other day with my head down.When I met a man
with his hand out.So I gave him,gave him a dollar.And as I walked away I heard him call out.
Brother can you see the sun from where you're standing now,
I've been up and I've been down but I've never been to this
part of town.
Michael'Panic'Houser Widespread Panic
Music has meant so much to me over my life time and Mikey has been such an influence for me the past few years.I know that some of you Northerners won't get their music,I guess it's a Southern thang,but Widespread Panic,especially Mikey has
kept me from just giving in.He died in Aug of cancer at age 40.
What a waste of such a talented individual.I miss him very much.
And to hear that song above just made me think of everyone here.
It's a song about finding true life.Something you can't find taking drugs.It only comes with sobriety.And the gift from God.
Thanks for listening to my babble but this has meant sooo very much to me and I just needed everyone to read it.
Bill(bmac)
Let us know what the particulars are and maybe we can help.
The longer you stay on benzos, the harder it will be to get off. The problem with taking them for anxiety is that when you drop the dose, or stop, you get the inverse effect that the drugs gave you, and the anxiety can be tremendous. This is why you taper real slow.
I went through hell with benzo w/d, but I stopped cold. I hear it is much easier with an extended taper. The best site I found on the subject was...
http://www.benzo.org.uk
check it out
Xanax in my opinion is a beast. I am here at this forum for an addiction to opiates (Hydrocodone in a cough syrup to be exact), but I had a run in with xanax in the early 90's. I was under a lot of stress with a new job and new state at the time, and I started to have these panic attacks. Crazy stuff like a racing heart, feeling like I could not swallow, feeling like I was going to pass out. I thought I was going to die...well a Doctor prescribed xanax for me .5mg 3 times a day. Well needless to say after about a month or month and a half I was feeling better so I just decided to stop. I just got a little taste of the w/d's and freaked out. I was on the phone with the doc in a heartbeat wondering what was happening, and he calmly told me that I was having w/d from the xanax, and the best part the only solution is take more xanax on a taper. It was hard to get off those pills. You need to come off with a taper under a doctors care. If you go see another doc and tell them your delima they will be able to help. Xanax is a fast acting drug, in that it gets into the body quickly, but also leaves quickly. It may be easier to switch from xanax to a longer acting drug like valium. I know you can break this problem. I don't want to scare you, but you can't take them forever. When you least expect it your doctor will change practices, cut you off or something that will make it much more difficult to get. It is easier to deal with it now.. If I can help just let me know...
you seem upset at yourself, maybe im reading it wrong
but try not to be so hard on yourself. that can be the worst thing we can do, then we start wanting to punish ourselves.
you might want to see and addiction doctor. just someone to talk your situation over.
the guilt is the gasoline that make addiction run.
shakesphere said THE GUILTY MAN RUNS WHERE NOBODY CHASES.
so taking an honest look at yourself is so very important.
so lighten up on youself, keep posting.
what touble are you having.????
peace michael'
The important thing about tapering is not to cut down again until you feel totally fine on your current dose.
(Wish I could do it that way with vic, but have not been able to)
pixi
Tuss-ex, I could not agree more about Xanax being a beast. It seems to have taken over my life. Without it, I cannot function.
hippy, I do to some point blame myself. I blame myself for not asking the er doc what the med he was giving me was but at that point I was having my first panic attack and was scared as hell and was not in the state of mind to ask questions. I thought I was dying. I have 2 very dear people die in the past 7 months. My grandfather and my mother. My mom was my rock and without her I feel I have no where to fall. The holiday's are coming up and it is going to be so hard. I have a wonderful husband but when it comes to the emotional aspects of things he is so withdrawn. Seeing he has not had the emotional things happen to him like they have to me I guess it is hard for him to understand. I know until it happened to me, I had no idea. Again Thanks, Danielle
pixi
pixi
The thing is that I have been on higher doses in the past but this time it seems worse. I just took a long hot shower to warm up, and am now going out to look for some of this "recipe" stuff.
The days are just too long right now, don't you think?
Laura
Please don't fool yourself about being on a relatively low doseage. Many of us (including myself) were at where you are today, but this is such a progressive disease, that tolerance rapidly builds, and the next thing you know, you're at a much higher doseage/ and in way deeper.
That "relatively low dose" thinking can allow oneself to put-off getting off. Again it's your choice, but now would be a very good time.
as for all the "flames" sent my way...sounds like there is a lot of anger out there. i have to care a lot to get that angry, and frankly there isn't anyone left here that i care about. so...save your energy for other things...like getting clean. oh, another thing, next time you have a problem with someone here maybe you can find a more adult (classy) way to express your feelings - f-this and f-that is so boring.
You are absolutely right perc. The dose is really not the issue,the need is the problem.At this min. I feel like its almost over for me.(the pills I mean) I burned my bridges before I quit using.Right now im just staying away from all temptation untill im stronger.CinCee,day three was the hardest as far as physical symptoms,today,day 4 is harder mentally.I am taking theraflu (it really works) praying real hard and listening to Johnny Mathis.Hey,maybe thats why I felt so sad this morning...lol Not trying to be flip,just cheerful!
pixi
What you must do is this: Have your doctor switch you from the short-acting benzo Xanax to the long-acting benzo Valium. Valium leaves your systems gradually and doesn't shock your system like Xanax WD.
Start on as much Valium as it takes for you to feel comfortable -- free of fear, anxiety and insomnia. Taper your dose over several months -- preferably 3 months or more. If the "Xanax terror" comes back, taper more slowly.
You can do it, but you must switch to Valium or Klonopin first (Valium is the longest acting benzo, I recommend it).
I have been addicted to opiates for 30 years, gone through more WD than I can remember, but WD from Xanax is 10 times worse! I never thought I would experience such continuous feelings of unfocused terror until I tried to discontinue Xanax. Valium taper or WD is a cake walk compared to Xanax.
If your doctor needs some medical backup to make the switch, before you see him, go to Dr. Ruth Ashton's web site and print her synopsis of safe benzo WD. Show that to your doctor. If he won't do it, get another doctor. Many MDs are shockingly ignorant on the subject of benzo WD and safe tapering.
When it comes to WDing from Xanax, as they say in The Fly, "Be afraid, be very afraid." The seizure danger is real and one can hit without warning as a consequence of acute benzo WD. But if you switch to Valium, then do a slow taper, you can do it!
Let me know if you want to know more.
Thomas
***@****
P.S. I would love a full night of sleep. I understand that will happen. Opiates take 2 years to get out of your system.
Thomas
Ya know, if I couldn't be myself and speak my mind on this forum, participating would be just a lot of typing. So what if you don't agree? Frankly, if we didn't have some fireworks, it wouldn't be as compelling to be here.
In any event, I doubt if it's going to get any safer to say what you think and respond honestly to others' comments than here.
And I missed the nuclear exchange. Damn. That's what I get for snorting all those Oxy 80s .... really, it's true .... no, it's not ... yeah, I did it .... nah, just joking ... ah huh, it happened ... of course not ... I'm afraid so ... ya know, I don't remember.
Thomas
i read your post about reminising about drug use if you wabnt to you will.
so be it , but as a addict trying to stay clean , i am here to share my experence strength and hope, with getting out of the nightmare of addiction.
if i was to write about how to get hi or little tricks i have
picked up over the years on how to get higher or how to get more drugs or if i passed on a site that would sell drugs over the net.i would be responsable for that type of action.
there are a lot of young kids along with the rest of us here and i think were are here to get better.not worse.
the receipe has help me and i pass it on when i can, i have benn in na for 27 years and i can not count the number of freinds who are dead , this is a deadly situation here people are dying.
so in the name of honor lets pass along the positive things we have learned.and try to steer clear of things like
SHOULD I SWOLLOW THE OXY, SNORT THE OXY OR SHOOT THE OXY.
AND WHAT WOULD YOU DO FOR THE BEST HIGH. this type of talk is insane, unless you at grateful dead .com.
keep posting
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Yes I said you are sane no insane no I meant well who gives a rats ass anyway.See snortin' all those drain cleaners has made you the person you are today.
I just stopped and looked up 'sane',It means mentally balanced.I take it all back.
bmac
is learning to get along with other people because i am naturaly
anti social, going to na for years and belonging to group of addicts tought me to set aside my differences for the greater good of the group.of course there are some people we never really hit it of f with.
and the one thing i learned in doing a fourth step is that i hate critasism,i had to learn to see that i could learn from about 50 percent of it.
you know when you right , your right, and when ya tell someone the truth , and they don;t want to hear it they will hate ya for .it.
you have been good for the fourm , you have kept us in line at times, but that right there tell's ya a little about youself.
nothing bad mind ya.
i was always told to ask myself where can i be wrong, where have i been wrong, where will be wrong.
but some times we are right , mostly when it is just principle.
and not personalty.
we all need to rember that we reap what we sow.
what goes around comes around.
thanx for all your honesty peace. keep posting
don't be to hard on other's or yourself
I agree with the snokin,shooting and finding ways to get drugs.These things should not be talked about openly here.
I have never said anything about it.I said I remembered k4's ,that was my reminiscing.The other thing about snortin and shootin wasn't me.
But on that topic about snortin oxy's,My doc told me they are making a drug called Kadian.It's the same as MS Contin but in a capsule.It has no street value cause it can't be crushed and snorted or broken down to shoot.I say this is wonderful.I am
not a snorter.I have known people that did but like you said they are dead or dying.I did however make a comment about cocaine.Well all this is over with.I have now apologized 8 times and yes Thomas I forgot to apologize to you.Iam sorry JSmith02,
actually About not finding you earlier in my journey,Man that
recipe has given me back my energy.
OK only positive things unless I feel really shitty and want to *****,I reserve that right as a addict.Ok already now I sound like you hippy.Now I'm bitching at myself.I've got to stop
having these brain lapses.
peace and thanks hippy!
bmac
it has come to my atention that the two of you are encountering
minor difficultys with one another. (nothing gets by me eventually) given the fact that i admire both of you, i am understandably upset with tis occurence. in a post somewhere below i made the observation that a person who wins an argument wins very little. a person who wins a friend wins everything... maybe both of you missed it.
ok so my wife and i both are afflicted with "irish alzheimer's disease. we both forget everthying but our resentments. now my motives are selfih here, so beware. that said allow me to procede while you both keep your minds open and your mouths shut.
groovy: you and i go back a ways. i think i know you as much as
one can know another in cyber. if the forum lost your posting presence it would be tragic. not only would your knowledge be lost, but also the "graceful eloquence," with which you deliver answers with. i would miss this, as i'm sure others would too. do not mistakenly belittle yourself thinking the void would be easily replaced!
bmac:
for a relatively "new comer," you have many people who look to
you for direction. i see a much younger "kip" in many of your
observations, comments , and sense of humor.
for what ever an old fart's oppinion is worth...i think you two
owe it to yourselves to make room for one another here. what do
either one of you have to lose? the only loser will be the forum
at large if you don't. when i quoted Bertolt Brecht, " oh i beg
thee spare your rath and spare your scorn/ for man needs help
from every creature born!" i was talking about the two of you and
myself, as well as everone else who post or gohsts!
i know that none of us is as "small as our large capacity for an-
ger and resentment can make us seem... so what say we clean up
our mess and (to steal a phrase) "promptly admit when we are
wrong. see i need both of you guys, as well as everyone else on
this crazy, but wonderful forum
keep an angel on your shoulders... even if you do choose to leave
kip
I think we should start Bill's Abject Apology Forum, or Bill's Oracle of the Neverending Apology, where we would post, you would reply, we would become indignant, then you would apologize seven times. (The crowd goes wild!)
Thomas
As for your suggestion.I like it.I can apologize to everyone.My ex wife,now she's a *****.Also I could apologize to my wife
my daughter and my parents.This has to be the most fun I have had here ever,of course this is the first time I have been straight in lets see I'm 44 and I started when I was 16 so that's oh hell you figure it out.
I like the idea though.
Bill
bmac - don't assume you know me or what my cry for help might sound like...you know nothing about me - i'm happy to just have you think of me as another "*****" as you seem to refer to most women who don't agree with you. your 8 or however many apologies sounded empty to me, and if you think about it, does any of it really matter?
this forum has served me well, and i hope that i have helped at least one person thru at least one bad moment of one bad day...peace to all (even bmac)...see you on the flip side.
Shu,
There are diseases in which some schedule 2 drugs are needed. It is only when they are abused that they become a real proplem.
It sounds as though you have controlled the dosage very well for your anxiety syndrome. In this day and age it is easy to develop PTSS, or a generalized anxiety disorder.
Yes, I can see trouble if you try to stop cold turkey, seizures are a strong possibility, but usually seen with much higher doses and longer acting benzos such as Valium and Klonopin. I have heard of people having seizures as long as a month after quitting a small amount of Valium.
I am currently on 8 milligrams of Klonopin a day for a seizure disorder, PTSS, and anxiety disorder. I was finally placed on permanent social security disbility after being terminated twice for employees complaining about being afraid of me after seeing me "shakedown". I have been on the Klonopin for over four years and have not increased the dosage. Don't kick yourself in the butt for needing a little something to help you get through life more comfortably. If you were taking it to get high, that would be a different story.
Alcohol was my main downfall for the longest time. I was sober almost two years then crashed and burned after my last termination. I was worrried about losing my house because no-one wanted a seizure freak. The SSI came through in only three weeks, one day after I took that stinkin first lousy drink. I struggled the least year and a half on and off shaking down, DT's and all of that ****. I now even have blackout seizures. I finally got off the booze, that was my true addiction. I wish people had more knowledge of how dangerous and additive alcohol is.
Anyhow the only problem I forsee with your dilema is feeling like a ball and chain is around your throat because you are dependent on a doctor for Xanax and are afraid to crash and burn. There are many understanding doctors, especially psychiatrists that would prescribe that or another type of anti-anxiety medicine although most come with some unpleasant side effects. I realize this is lengthy, sorry about that, but I hope it is a help to you and others in your situation. Good luck,
chatahan
the last one.I don't consider you a '*****' and I don't consider most women as ******* either.For some reason you can't get past the other day and that's fine.But I do mean the apologizes.
The reference to my ex wife was in fun.Even though she is a *****,but that'a another story for another furum.I don't have a problem with women.I am not a abusive husband or did I say I knew you.The cry for help thing was to those who knew you from here,that's all I meant.I do want us to get past one day of arguing.Jesus,my wife and I have had arguemnts that's haven't lasted this long and we love eachother.
SO PLEASE STOP FIGHTING WITH ME,PLEASE.Most of the old timers have chewed my ass out,whether in fun or being serious and I apologized to them also.I even apologized to the staff here.
If you can please just stop replying to my posts if they make you angry.I will just ignore you and you ignore me.
There are people here that are finding this between me and you funny,now.I really needs to stop.
GroovyGirl,I am sorry for the mean and uncalled for words I said.I don't know how more heartfelt I can make this.I was
wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bmac
You are amazing.
Cincee, ask the person at GNC for what you need. They are very nice and aware of what you are trying to do.
I wanted to post before I left on a field trip to the Zoo with my five year olds class. That should keep my mind off hydro...
maybee..
Goldenbear
I hope you accept his appology. REALLY.
Stay cool, GroovyGirl!
Jess
Hang in there everyone...." The answer to your question, lies in your darkest problem "
I am always here for ya!
bmac
go take 10 of them.But I am past that now and I hope you can get
past your thang.Keep on letting us know!You will win!
bmac
this is long over due. something i've been thinking about for a-
while. when i log on to this forum it is vibrant, and literally
buzzing with the activity of people detoxxing, or tapering. even
the occasional differences of oppinion which i must confess i've
always really enjoyed.
but also when i log on to this forum i notice it is full of new-
comers. the rate of growth of new members is litterally staggering. most of the "old posters" are gone or rarely post. so i guess i'll bow out gracefully. i don't mean to say i'm gone forever...just that it is time for the "youngsters" to take over. i will be back to post from time to time, and i know i will gohst for a little while longer, but it is time for me to move it along.
lately i've noticed i just don't have the stomach or the patience
when things get nasty. if i come back it will be in manner that does not offend or attack anyone seeking fellowship for any reasion.
hey jess:
i think this makes you Senior member and elder statesman.
thomas:
my hat will always be off to you! your recipe has litterally
changed my life! thankyou
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
***@****
Thomas
Thomas
I am SO pleased that you are taking over the "Duty" of welcoming the newbies now. As you may know from reading the board recently, I'm movin' on, and will probably only post very infrequently. You are an asset to this little piece of the internet, and I hope you'll stick around and put in your "tour of duty"-- I've been here posting daily for about a year and it has been so benifecial to my sense of well-being that no dollar amount spent with a shrink could even come close.
The torch has been passed~
Jess
Hey skipper, you can't leave yet!!! Jess posted this below to me. I can try and will. But there is no way I can provide the insight and knowledge from the ranks of the "old timers".
Chezz
Thomas
You are the ones that have been around and probably have helped more people than you will ever know.
Your never ending support and help is admirable.
I take my hat off to you guys.........
Chezz
Stay humane....
have compassion...
Teach freedom from FEAR.
THAT is the root of all our failings. When we have reached the pinnacle of "NO FEAR".... Well. WHAT A FEELING!
Still lurking about..... Jessesarpy
Thomas
I love to help
Chezz
The Ashton (an English doctor who's done much research in this area) equivalency is 20 mg of valium to 1 mg. of Xanax. In the states, it is 10 mgs of valium to 1 mg. of Xanax. I was oversedated using the Ashton equivalency so had to reduce my dose of valium. You may have to experiment. Valium acts differently than Xanax. You will not get that feeling or rush when the anxiety evaporates immediately. It still works but you won't feel it as much. I found because of it's long action, I could take my dose at bedtime, sleep well, and it would last throught the next day. So that's another plus.
I also tried to CT Xanax and it's a great way to experience psychosis. Don't do it.
itsadogslife
I wanted to add some people do need antianxiety medicine. Your underlying disorder will come back and in a heightened state after wd. I'm not trying to scare you. Just try to find a nondrug way to deal with it while tapering like CBT. And if you can't, keep in mind there is a difference between using a drug as prescribed and being an "addict." There is nothing wrong with being dependent on a drug you need to take.
I was an addict. I went for the buzz not the relief of symptoms.
itsadogslife
I used to be addicted to xanax many years ago; I remember the withdrawal in a hospital...pretty nightmarish...no weaning...just stopping.
There is something you might consider doing or working with your Dr. Xanax is a very short-acting benzo...once it's out of your system, you need another..and some people even get rebound anxiety as a result...I remember I did.
As an alternative, my Dr. switched me to Klonopin, a much longer acting benzo (thus less addcitive..or easier to get off; when the time comes). It stays in your body for a longer time...if I take 1 mg at night...I don't really need to take another until the next night..or later...
It helps me medically so I continue it. IF you switch to klonopin, you won't have any withdrawal from xanax either...
Good luck
Liza