I want to help my son get off vicodin!

[snoozieQ255]

My 36 year old son is coming home tomorrow and he has asked me to help him through an at home detox off of vicodin.  I guess he occassionaly uses oxycoton but primarily used vicodin.  I think this is a 3-4 year addiction, escalating to the point of popping up to 20- .75m vicodin at a time.  That sounds unbelievable to me, but I am certain that is what he told me.  We plan to go "cold turkey" as he has lost his job, and we have no money and no insurance for him to see a doctor for help.  I have called our local hospital ER, and they said if he gets in a bad way, I can take him in there as they can't refuse anyone for un-ability to pay.  I have heard you could have a heart attack or stroke, and or seizures.  Can anyone help me with advice on what to do?  I have heard the first 4-5 days is the worst.  I plan to have gatoraide and lots of fresh water for dehydration and tons of prayers!  As the day gets closer, the more afraid I am for him, and me, as well.  I would appreciate any advice or help!!  Please...

[mr.lucky66]

Vicodin withdrawel isn't that serious that is will cause seizures or stroke, that I've ever heard of. It is a physical addition that takes a few days or so to kick but not nearly as difficult as heroin or methadone where sometimes people can have more problems. The worst thing about the dosage you say he is taking is the tylenol and liver damage. The hardest and most important thing about this addiction is just to stay stopped after withdrawels are over and not to start again. all the best

[whitie]

he can do it if hes serious about it. I have gone CT about 20 times from opioids like a bonehead......... when he gets home, talk him into studying his enemy and perhaps reading the forum here. years ago I use to come here and read, it helped me a bunch.


he told you for a reason,which means he is serious about stopping. hes fortunate to have a loving mother like you  :]

[snoozieQ255]

A Mother's love never ends!  He lives in Idaho, in a small town where this is quite prevelant apparently, although, I have told him many times, if he wants it bad enough, he can find it here as well.  He has lots of family here for support, brother, sister, Grandmother, and we all want to give him support as best we can.  When he gets off it he plans to stay here and look for work.  He says once he gets off it, he will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER take them again!  I know he means it, but still I am so afraid of the cravings that I am sure he will have for it.  He has lost a lot due to this problem, so I feel like that will be detterent enough.  I'm just afraid of all we have to go through in the next 4-5 days...I read things and start to feel afraid....Some say, taper down slowly...(I don't agree with that, but who am I?, just a Mom)  and I don't like the idea of him using another type of opiate, as I feel that is trading one thing for another.  I wonder if it would be good to get on an anti-depressant after the detox period?  Do you know anything about that?  Thanks for answering.

[snoozieQ255]

Thank you so much for your comments and advice.  I found that more comforting than you know, knowing now that heart attack, stroke, seizures,shouldn't be a worry.. Apparently though, rapid heart rate and high blood pressure is part of the withdrawl feelings?  I have read anything from mild to moderate "flu" like symptoms, on up to a horrible, horrible time of pain, depression and thoughts of suicide and severe leg cramping.  Maybe somewhere in between those two extremes?

[whitie]

I am a firm believer in avoiding all pills(tranqs,benzos,mood alterers) and would suggest herbs and some temporary cold medicines to get over the 4-5 day hump. I noticed many ended up addicted to the new drug that they started taking, to help them and wound up having more problems.


and as for the replacement drugs like methadone and others......, it was a worse nightmare for me, got me even more addicted, and resulted in a much longer WD's. nor do they ever let the brains receptors and endorphins ever return to normal. what good is that??

I have gone major CT straight and tapering, all while having to work which really bites bad.  I think a tapering program is less painful, but will drag on a little longer to though. the benefit of straight CT is you will get over it faster, but is rough for 3-5 days depending on what kind of fortitude one has.

of all those times I quit before, I was never this serious(25 days now for me, off a horrible methadone and norco addiction). often figuring that I could handle it better next time. now I am certain I cannot, hopefully your son is now "CERTAIN" that he is not going to be able to do it either.

[snoozieQ255]

Thank you for that information and I whole heartedly agree!  Congratulations on your 25 days!  I'm assuming the methadone was prescribed for "withdrawing" off something else?  I think that's terrible they would prescribe that...seems to me, the idea is to get rid of the dependency on everything!

You mentioned herbs?  What kind?  Would it be good for me to give him ibuprofin for the aches I hear people get?  Also, there is an OTC called "legatrin" that helps with restless leg syndrome, it has quinine in it.  Do you know anything about it?  I know you're not a doctor, I assume, but have you heard if quinine is helpful?  

[TrayCee]

severe leg cramping!!!!! HOTHOTHOT BATHS!   Thats the only time I slept.  I stayed in the tub hours at a time.

If he doesn't want this more than hes ever wanted anything in his life...it wont work.

It can be done though...ppl do it everyday.  After the physical wd's are over, thats when the really hard part starts!  Google "PAWS withdrawals".

Good Luck to yall both!

[snoozieQ255]

He says he does....I'm not up on all the abbreviations.  What is ppl?  Thanks for the other information, I appreciate it all!

[whitie]

I have been using some ibupro to get over some bad days. but I use valarian root to help sleep, works great for me. then energy drinks and protein powders durring the day. some have sworn by melatonin and bananas for sleep.

as for methadone most get it from clinics,as far as I have noticed. both suboxone and methadone are nothing but replacement opioids.............so that does not make sense to me, why keep the mind and body addicted to an opioid? sure it has probably saved some from a worse addiction(heroin,oxycodone,and vikes) I thought I found the ultimate drug at first, but then soon started mixing them.It by far has been a worse WD than regular analgesic opioids. its been a tough one to beat. but the problem I have, is I have been on opioids for 4-5 years, on and off, mostly on !! so its going to take awhile before I get %100 back to normal. but I by far feel much better,than I have in years ,even now  :]

I just got to the stage where they just no longer worked or was enjoyable(even mixed together)unless it was a lot. got sick and tired of being sick and tired

[betterdays01]

I too am 36 and have recently gotten off of vicodin.  Day 33 for me.  I think the major thing to know is that your son will be sick.  He will be in pain for a few days.  I had the worst body aches ever.  Sweats, cold, the runs, you name it.  Motrin for the pain as needed (and it will be needed), immodium for the runs will be needed.  I used ativan which is for anxiety prescribed by my doc. Valarien root helps with sleep as he will need and will have trouble with for a while.  Be patient and make sure he is.  Make sure when he comes home that he does not bring any pills with him.  You are very lucky he is honest with you and asking for help.  I would be mortified to tell my mother, she hates pills.  You have a wonderful relationship.  Best of luck to you, also have your son log on as this might help him too,  it did me.  Im sober and lovin it!

[bjmbb]

First off, You must be an incredible mother. I wish I had a good relationship with mine. It is more of a chat and no real heart to heart. She is a big part of my problem. I am on day 4 now and I will tell you that yes it is true he will feel like he has the flu. What helped me was constantly thinking, this is the flu, this is the flu. The first day or 2 he may be throwing up alot and have the runs real bad.Lots of hot showers or tub soaks or spa. It is very soothing. I still have the runs and today is the first day I have been able to eat or even smell food. I am 48 and the mother of 2, one grown and one teenage son. They know nothing of this as do none of the other members of my family. They would be horrified and extremely judgmental so your support and his family will be invaluable. It can't hurt pampering him a little. Maybe a back rub or massage and constant reasurance that he is loved!! He will most likely get a terrible headache at some point or another. But if he is really serious he CAN do this. I know the hardest part is maintance. I was addicted to Norco. Same as Vicodin but with less tylenol. I was taking maybe 10 or 12 a day for 3 yrs. I have been assured that this is something that can be dealt with at home. It may be a good idea to buy some protein powder to mix with water. Something not so sweat. He will need nuritrients and maybe some mutli vits. I'm glad you contacted the ER. It's always good to have a back up. Oh and you did good getting the gator aid!! You may be furious with him as my husband was with me at first. For that few hours I have never felt more alone in my life. But he came around and is now my biggest and only support. But that is all I need. Keep us posted. Oh and ppl. Is people. I know, some get by me too.

[windowsca]

I'm sooo happy to see a post like whitie's and that you agree!  Holistic is the best. The long hot baths are excellent and heating pads for cramps.  If its in the budget, acupuncture, message therapy, chiropractic adjustments and DRY HEAT (not steam) saunas. Google any of these as detox alternatives. Also at health food stores,you can buy detox tea. He will also benefit from B vitamins, esp. B3 (Niacin) if you do dry heat sauna, along with Zinc and Magnesium. Again Google how Niacin works for Detox. Opiates cause constipation, so plenty of fresh, fleshy (like peaches, apples, prunes, plums) fruits, high fiber, whole grains and high probiotic yogurt - basically healthy, healthy, healthy. Stay away from refined sugars as they tend to release dopamine, the "feel good" enzymes that can help create cravings for more "feel good" (ie: what. opiates do in vast quantity).enzymes risking relapse.  Lastly, understand opiates and how they effect the brain. Knowledge is key to battle this hard-to-kill monster. Support is a close second. Best of Luck

[snoozieQ255]

Thank you and BETTER DAYS 01!  You two are AWESOME to write and tell me of your advice, it is soooooo reasurring to know there are others who have done this at home, as I have been so frightened.  When he called to tell me I was dissapointed and sad for him, and yes, angry too....but I love him with all my heart, and then when he called again and asked me to help him here at my house (he lives in Idaho, I live in Washington) I then knew he is REAL about getting off it.  If not, he would have stayed there and continued..how would I ever know?  My husband leaves tonight to drive over there and they will return tomorrow early afternnoon, I am reading all I can in the meantime so that I can help as much as I possibly can.
I wish the BEST for both of you, and as a Mom would say, "I'm so proud of you both!"

[flmagi]

During the first 5 days of withdrawals, you may not know how to deal with him, it will be hard. He will be on an emotional roller-coaster. Don't get upset if he gets a little nasty....he doesn't mean it, it's the drugs talking. After the withdrawals there can still be some emotional stuff, depression etc. If it lasts to long (over a month) or gets to severe, have him go to a doctor for some anti-depressants.
Also don't expect him to "be all better" after the withdrawals. There will be good days and bad days, this can go on for a month. There will be the serious mental battle to fight for a long while.
I highly recommend you get him on this forum for support and any questions he may have. There's nothing like other addicts to truly understand what he will be going thru. But this forum would be great for any family members who want to understand addiction so they can help him along the way.
Good luck to you both.

[snoozieQ255]

Thanks so very much for taking the time to write, I am just floored at all the wonderful responses...this has been so helpful to me.  I am definitely going to try and find the detox tea and some of your other suggestions.  I will have my little home detox center ready when he gets here tomorrow.  I am trying to be prepared for the pain and depression that follows, but still I know it will be very hard for me to see him that way...but anything that will get him off this stuff will be worth it in the end.  Thanks again, and congratulations to all of you who have made it..you must and should feel so proud of yourselves!

[snoozieQ255]

That really is good information, because yes, I probably would have thought, "oh, after the first 5 days, you should be all better now."  Good to be prepared for all that he has ahead to face and I am sure the depression is going to be a huge part of it.  He does have a lot of family here for support too, so I think it will all go good in the end.  I can't imagine someone trying to do this with no family support!!    Thanks

[Mandapanda17]

Hi!!
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but please read through the health pages on this forum, over in the right hand lower corner of the page, there is TONS of info about herbs and things that help with withdrawal at home! Your son is so lucky to have a mother like you! My mother helped me in a similar way recently, I started my treatment today and she was the one who paid for me to go :) Your son will definitely need your help & support for months & years to come probably. This type of addiction doesn't just go away in a week or two, the mental part can last a vary long time with some people~read in the health pages also about PAWS. And you are SO right, keep praying it really does help. My husband and I prayed a lot today together and I know its helping me. Best wishes to you and your son! ((oh, tell him to get on here for support if he wants to! Its a great place!))♥

[snoozieQ255]

Thanks so much for the information about the health pages, I am new to all of this, and haven't navigated much around the web-site, but what all you good people have told me so far, has been so wonderful!
I'm glad you pray for yourself, my daughter (gee, does this sound familiar) had a long, long, addiction to meth and tried everything!!!  She finally wanted her life back so bad, she got so low feeling, she tried all the rest and finally started getting on her knees and praying, and I'm telling you...that was what worked for her.  She said from the day forward she had the strength and will power to leave it behind and go forward with her life. I'm not meaning to say she didn't have alot of really rough days, because she did, but before that she would give up and give in, this time she had the strength to say NO to the devil inside her!  She and her husband and their daughter are buying their first home and her life has turned around 100% in the past 3 years since she has been "clean"   I guess this is my second experience with addiction....this is a little different, but addiction is addiction, they all have the very same negative outcome on ones life.  I know my son will make it, just like my daughter did.  

[toejam_muncher]

well i wish you, your family, and your son the best of luck. it seems everyone has given plenty of advise on most issues he'll face with the withdrawal period. i have only one thing to share that may be of any use. my mom has gone through this with me when i was about 14. i won't go into details...but i will say that i regret a lot of things i said to her during my withdrawal period. i went into rages and said things i still wish i could take back...and it's been 10 years ago. i would never have physically hurt anyone...that much i believe...but the things i said were just as bad. i was not in my right mind at all. my advise to you is that when things get to that point...and they may very well get there...try to remember that the urge for the drug will literally tempt you to say anything to get it and sometimes you do say things that you later deeply regret.

anyway, maybe this was just the way my demon expressed itself. maybe you won't have to deal with that at all. again...good luck and i hope you all succeed!

[windowsca]

Hi again.  I didn't go into it much detail on my last post, but my now, 8 months clean son, had an unbelievable Oxycontin addiction - it started with a Norco prescription after an accident and a year plus later, by the time I figured out the holistic approach, rather than the medical approach (more drugs), he had relapsed over and over.  Eight months ago, he was shooting up as many as 20 80 mg. Oxy's per day.  Very close to death twice in those last couple of weeks.  It can get out of hand so very fast and so easily.  I still constantly research, becasue I know it could all come crashing down any time.  Anyway, tonight I googled "herbs for opiate detox" and the very 1st link (Opiate Detox Recovery), in my opinion, is a goldmind of info that you may want to go read, in a post from "mamapoppy" who gives info on what she's learned through her own struggles.  Check it out!  

[snoozieQ255]

I was reading your post, and the memories flooded back....yes, I have been there too, with my daughter, she was that age when she started on meth...we had a few scenes just as you described.  I'm sure your Mom is just like me, she knew is was the drug talking, not the person, even though it is painful to hear those words coming from your "baby's" mouth.  Still, I knew it was the devil inside her that made her say it and do those awful things, she never got real physical although she pushed me down a few times.  Once she got clean though, and trust me...it took FOREVER. BUT she did it and regained really all that she had lost in just 3 years.  During this period, she even had a little girl.  One thing I do have to give her EXTREME credit for, she stopped using the minute she new she was pregnant and stayed clean the entire time, and gave birth to a perfect baby who is now 10 years old!!!  She and the baby's father have been married now 91/2 years and they are just about to move into their first home and their FIRST mortgage!  Ha ha.  I had assumed when she got clean for the pregnancy, that IT was over, but she was only 18 the day her baby was born, and let me tell you, after the first few weeks, she started up again and went into a downward spiral faster than the first time.  Her husband cared for their baby and stayed with her through all those years!!  Praise the Lord!!!  She had a 10 year struggle with that, turning to pill popping, and alcohol and then both, when she was in "recovery" from meth.  It doesn't matter what it is, it's ugly, and it is so destructive...she went down that road, only to end up back on the meth.  It was so awful, there were times I cried so hard my jaws ached just to watch my beautiful little girl destroy herself like that. I never could figure a reason WHY she was doing this, as far as I  know still to this day, she hasn't suffered any trauma in her life, but I think she tried it once when she was 14 and she was HOOKED!  I guess what I started out to tell you in the begining, if your Mom is like me...she FORGIVES you for that and any thing that you may have said, knowing it WASN'T YOU!  It was the DEVIL of whatever drug you were on!  Just tell her you are SO SORRY, I'm sure you must have already done that, and then try and FORGIVE yourself, it wasn't the REAL you!!  Mom's are tough, the main thing is you did it, you got off it and I am sure she is so proud of you for that!!  I bet if you tell her your feelings of guilt, she will encourage you to put that in the past and move forward, not looking back...it's over.
So, I guess in all that, I am trying to say, I have been down this road already, I am prepared (I think) for that.  I think this will be somewhat different, as I am now dealing with a 36 year old adult, as opposed to a teenager little girl....My first reaction to all this, was why me?  How bad of a mother must I have been to have 2 of my 3 children go down this drug/alcohol path?  Why? why? why?, but I can't help him if I wallow in self pity, I have to pull myself up by the boot straps, get tough..I did it once, I can do this again!!!  The last lines of Corinthians 13: 4-8 says...Love always protects, always trusts, always HOPES, always PERSERVERES....LOVE never FAILS!

[julie1713]

Anyone others wives out there have this problem. I can't tell if he takes them unless he walks funny. He has never been a good sleeper. I afraid to get in the car he drives too.
I do no want him to die I love him. I feel like an adult sitter.
Any suggestions.

[jt808]

i just wanted to write and say thiank you, ur probably like what for but after reading how ur going to help ur son through whatever he need makes me feel like i have to tell my mom as well i am 26 yrs old and have been badly addicted to norcos/and latelt oxy/roxies and well whatever i can get my hands on for over 7 yrs and i came clean with then like 8 months ago and it broke there hearts but u remind me of my mom or at least how caring she is and concerned and just wants the best fro me the only reason i have not told her is that well a few reason but manly is i just cant stand to tell her and break hers and my dads hearts cuz they are so good to me and another is i have such a love hate relationship wth theese dam pills and its hard.i can even count the amount of times it has been for me to quite in the hundreds at least. but after reading al these posts and replys its time to come clean and just man up and deal with it and i know that theyll be there just as u are there for ur son to help me. so thank u and i hope everything goes well as good as it can go. and thansk one last time.

[windowsca]

Good choice sweetie.  You've got parents for a reason. In many ways, you cannot outgrow your parents and never, ever underestimate how deep the love for a child is-in the long run, you can almost do no wrong.  As the song goes "It's a love without end, Amen"

Being both, someone's child and someone's mother, (sorry mom and dad) I can say without hesitation - I love my kid more.  I'm sure either of my parents would say the same.  It's a natural chain.  Let it go and let them help. For most, thank God, it's all we, as parents, want.  

I knew my son was in trouble, months before he admitted it and he REALLY didn't want to tell me.  Even when he knew it was all he had left.  In the long run, he has figured out, that besides God, there is no one in the entire universe who has his best interest at heart like I do (his dad died when he was nine, hence I instead of we).  On that note, as parents, we would literally die for you.  Trust us to be strong enough.  Trust me - if we wanted to outlive you, it would have happened when you were about 16 :o)  Good luck!

[jt808]

hey thansk alot for replying to me, and i know they care for me and truly are the only iones that have my best intrestes at heart like u u said and i a m gona tell tham and im sure they have a idea somethng sup but i play it off good. the hard parts i hate to put them through this again it kills me to see my mom wo0ryy and get worked up cuz thts just how she is and she doesent kno anythng about these pills and guesses the worst scenerio and to watch her and no tht she is heart brokeen same as my dad. well thansk alot for helping and sharing ur thoughts. wish me luck its gona be hard but just gota step up and do it.

[discretekarma]

There's no doubt that this can be done at home. I wouldn't have done it any other way.  I am only on day 8 but this is a  huge accomplishment for me.  I was snorting 250mg to 300mg a day of an Oxy/Opana combination.  I started off  just like your son though and it just got worse and worse. I've had back surgery twice and was able to get scripts though.  I've  tried so many times and this is the best I've done.  I was on a  higher amount than your son and may have had a more severe experience but he should most likely expect the same symptoms at some varied degree.  I hope I'm making sense.  Here are some of the things that he may expect or experience.  For me, restless leg syndrome drove me nuts. It's one thing that a lot of people experience. It was even worse because your legs and back hurt and you don't want to move your legs but you can't help it. I agree that hot baths or hot tub helped some.  Another thing that was bad for me was anxiety. If he needs it, Benedryl should help if you can get some from the store.  Immodium was a must the whole way through.  For me, know that days 2-5 were the worst was  big help so I knew what to expect.  

I'm assuming that since he's driving back with your husband that he'll have some Norco's or Vic's to get him through the trip.  Make sure he gets rid of whatever he has before you start the cold turkey (unless you decided to taper).  He may be strong now while he's still high but when he's sick and feeling as bad as he may feel, he may want to take something.  I would be so strong prior to starting my withdrawal's and then once I started, I'd do anything to stop it.  The only thing that worked for me was to stay home, bite the bullet, just suck it up and get through it.It'll suck but he can do it. I think the only risk is dehydration.  I've never heard of seizures or heart attacks that were caused by detoxing. Even cold turkey detox.  I hope you can find something in this mess of a post that will help you.  Knowing what to expect will most likely help him more than anything.

[snoozieQ255]

Your posts really touch my heart.  Sweetie, I can tell just by what you have already said, that your Mom will defintely be there for you.  I know you don't want to break your Mom and Dad's heart, but think of how they would feel if you died?  Please, please tell them and let them HELP you.  This is day 2 of me helping with my son, yesterday was a breeze and we even had some really good laughs, but it was only DAY ONE. I have researched, and read all of everyone's posts, and many others, and read the Thomas recipie and went out and got all the ingrediants (that took some hunting) except valium.  I got benedryl instead, I am determined to help him through it, and I bet your Mom and  Dad will help you too.        My daughter and I have the BEST relationship ever, even after all those hard, hard years of me being hurt by her, all the lies, I was devastated, scared, and angry that she continued and couldn't stop.  I had no understanding of addictions, I always thought, if you want to stop, then stop, but I don't know what an addiction really is.  Now, after two children...I'm starting too~~~  You say you think your Mom is getting suspicious and I bet she is....I have been there too, actually knowing she was using again, in my heart, but willing to play the game that she was clean because I wanted it so badly.  But the anxiety of being suspicious is almost worse than knowing for sure.  Sure, their heart will be broken for a bit, but loving parent's hearts can mend.....but if their child is dead....that pain NEVER mends and NEVER ends!!!!!!  I think you can do it, you have obviously been raised in a wonderful, loving home...you never stop being a Mom...or Dad.  When you were little and you fell down..they rushed to your side and kissed your boo boos...and held you and kissed you, right?  Please tell them and ask for help.  If you ASK FOR HELP, that will show them you want to stop, and how can they be mad at you for that?....  Also, my daughter always thought she was good at hiding it from me, but she wasn't, I always knew, but it was me who would talk to myself for hours, making excuses in my head for why she did this or that and said this or that, because I didn't want it to be true, but in my heart I KNEW.  The anxiety for me was a KILLER, I was having to resort to drug use, in a way....meaning I had to get xanax from my Doctor, to try and help me through the nights of panic attacks where I thought I was going to have a heart attack and die over worry.  Don't do that to your Mom if you think she is supicious, I bet she has many long nights of worry over you, she LOVES YOU. I want to repeat, that the anxiety I bet your Mom is experiencing is worse, than having you talk to her and ask for help, that at least will give her HOPE, and that relieves some of the anxiety that I am sure she is experiencing.  I think you can do this!!  Good luck, and thanks for posting!!!  You GO girl!

[snoozieQ255]

Thank you so much for your post!  I am so sorry to hear what you have and what everyone here has had to go through.  Just being the Mom and not having had to personally (physically, myself) go through what all that hell must feel like, I am so touched to know what you have all gone through to get off these devils!!!  I don't think I can really even IMAGINE what it would feel like.  I have gotten all the "tools" I can from what I have gleaned off reading all these posts and others...so I feel like I am armed with the whatever the small part that I can do.  We have all the water in the world, gatorade, fruit, (someone said fruit) ibuprofin, vitamins with all the ingrediants spoke of in the "thomas recipie" vitamin B-6, an OTC leg cramp med with quinine in it, benadryl, L-tyrosine, and tons of bananas as I was not able to find any type of potassium supplement, and of course, the immodium!  That was really frustrating me that I couldn't find the potassium, so I guess bananas will have to do.  I know about the hot, hot baths, so I feel like I am prepared in that way.  I'm working on being mentally prepared as the days go by that things will get rough, as day one was actually a very nice day.  One of my biggest and BEST tools is Prayers!!!!  Lots of prayers, he also has a Gramma (my Mom, that has him in her constant prayers!)  He PROMISED that he didn't bring any with him and that he stopped altogether..night before last....  I will try to continue to post his progress and maybe even encourage him to come on here and maybe even do some postings himself.  Thanks for everyone's help!

[snoozieQ255]

Wow, you sound just like me...Doesn't it just surprise you all the time, how much love you have for your children. even once they were adult?  I think that all the time I was raising them, I thought "once they are 18, everything will be perfect" they will all be grown up with productive lives, wives, husbands, children, a home, good jobs...etc.  Well, it hasn't EXACTLY gone as smooth as I always pictured, but if you hang in there and help them when you can..but also you have to let them "fly on their own." so to speak, I think those dreams can at least come close to coming true.  They will always be our babies, no matter what...You are right...Love without end, Amen.  I just can't picture ever not wanting  and trying to help.  It is so WORTH it, if there are any parents out there reading this and you wonder if you can, or should help, YES, JUST DO IT!!!  The rewards are GREAT!!  If you read my other posts you will see it took 10 years for my daughter, but she did it and she is 3 years clean from meth, some people actually told me they NEVER GET OFF THAT, JUST GIVE UP.  Can you even IMAGINE??  Oh my gosh, the nights I drove around all night looking for her, knocking on scarey looking doors searching for her, crying all night, agonizing....then I would have to shower and go to work and try and put a smile on my face somehow....but let me tell you..IT WAS WORTH EVERY SECOND TO SEE HER NOW!!!!!!  I think you are a Mom, just like me, and God Bless you and your son!!!

[snoozieQ255]

Yes, he and my husband arrived here at about 2:00 yesterday afternoon.  We made it through day one, very easy....he says he quit the night before, so I can only trust that is what he did.  I feel very strongly, he would not have left over there, and left his girlfriend behind to come over here and sit in Mommy's house to detox, with all his siblings and Grandmother here watching, if he isn't EXTREMELY sincere about kicking this.  When their house sells, his girlfriend will come over here too, but that is probably AT LEAST a month or more away.  Once he detoxes and starts to feel better, he will start to look for work.  Our area isn't anywhere near as depressed an area where he lives in Idaho.  We actually still have jobs here and most people are still working.  Mostly in part to living near one of the largest Naval Bases in the country.  Anyway, that's off the track, I am just meaning to say, I feel strongly that he is being up and up with me...otherwise he would have stayed over there and continued to use and just phone and tell me he was "doing great!"  I will try and post on here how the days are going.  I hope everyone will keep us in their prayers and best wishes!  Thank you, IBKleen....and it sounds like congratulations must be in order for you as well, according to your name....

[snoozieQ255]

Can you are anyone else answer this question?  I got benedryl for my son in replacement for any typeof valium or  xanax to help him with sleeping.  He has taken the dosages of vitamins, b-6, and all the other suggested meds.  This is only day 2 and I can see it already starting!  Now, I gave him 2 benedryl this morning a little after 7:00 and by 9:00, he was getting 2 more.  I told him he was supposed to wait 2 more hours and he said not to worry, it'll be ok.  I got this for him as I think it was supposed to help with anxiety which I can see that starting.  Can he hurt himself of this benedryl if he takes more than the dosage says, I mean more often than the dosage says?

[whitie]

hes probably not going to get any sleep for 2-4 days,snoozie. thats part of it. most dont, other than resorting to other addictive drugs to get the job done. dont use them, hes just going to have to rough it out. it will get better. use valarian root to try and help with the sleep and night time cold meds.


other than that dont give in no matter what. tell him to study his enemy, know how it works !!

good luck, and fight it this weekend to get over the hump. you guys can do this !!!!

[windowsca]

Hi again. Hopefully things are still going relatively well with this transition!  My son, especially given the insane dosage of Oxy he had gotten to, never really got so sick. Some heavy sweating, trouble sleeping, boredom and relatively minor leg and stomach cramps was about it. I do believe the acupuncture had something to do with that, but who can be sure. I had so many different things in place!  I really believe no drugs of any kind is key. It's important to do this without drugs to enforce the idea of being able to exist without them in any form. That's probably not an easy concept for them to grasp,so physical proof, through actually doing it should be most convincing.    

It is amazing how strong and protective we are with our kids, even when they aren't kids anymore. My son got addicted at end of 17 and is just turned 20, so in many ways, I still think of him as a kid. At any rate, I 100% agree that you have to support them through this no matter what or how long it takes. It's cheaper than a funeral. Their self esteem is already so low. No one chooses to be addicted.  I can't imagine how much worse it would be if you can't count on your own mother or loved ones. I heard, so many times, "it won't work unless they he wants it" and "you have to let him hit bottom". That's not gonna happen on my watch. As far as I'm concerned, hitting bottom is the same as dead. There is no need for all that, this is so very fixable. There has been much recent research proving, that even if the addict doesn't want help, in a long term (at least 4 months) behavioral modification program after physical use is stopped, it still does work.  If one thinks about it, a heavily drugged brain, is not capable of making a rational decision. If you had a kid heavily sedated with moraphine, say after a surgery, you certainly would discount any irrational decision he tried to make on his own, because you know it's the drugs causing him to be irrational. There is no difference between that and  this, so where is common sense in that advice?  For the record, it has also been proven that detox without follow up care to "reprogram" the brain is completely ineffective, almost every time.  I stay on top of this (it's my addiction ;o) because I know it can end anytime, like cancer coming back. The article in the health pages on fighting relapse is very helpful in understanding why. Hope you have a great day and many more to come!

[windowsca]

Hey JT!  I hope I can be of help. I want you to get through this like you were my own. And you can if you know what to do.  I think one of the reasons it's so hard to get the right help, esp. with opiate addiction, is because many  tend to think drugs are drugs and generalize that they all work the same. Mind over matter will make quiting easier but education is key so you know what you are fighting. All drugs are not the same. If you have your parents read the "Fighting Relapse" article in the health pages, they will have a better understanding of why stopping opiates is something you probably cannot do just because you want to. It's completely possible, you don't understand it yourself. I was talking to my own mom, just this morning about the opiate addiction epidemic. She mentioned (after I named moraphine as being an opiate like Oxy)that my Dad had been on moraphine for over a month, after a very bad car accident and asked why hadn't he gotten addicted. After I explained the whole domamine / endorphine, pain / plessure thing of brain vs drugs she said "Why do these kids take stuff that does that? (As if it's just 'a kid' problem) Didn't Anton (my 20 year old son) know this would happen?".(He got addicted through a scrip...the explaining never ends:) To which I replied, how do you excect anyone, let alone a (then)17 year old, to know what you haven't known in 70+ years?  Our society has become so entrenched in the "a pill fixes everything" mindset. I see it over and over, even on this site. "What drug should I take to get off this drug?" This Kind of thinking WILL NEVER FIX YOUR ADDICTION it will just be your new temporary bandaid.  

Bottom line - educate yourself on alternative detox and how this drug takes over your brain, so you don't fool yourself into thinking quiting is enough. You will see the same advice all over the place - you HAVE to reprogram your behavior after you get through detox or getting clean will not last   your parent need to understand this or all their help will be useless. I mentioned in another post, if you google "herbs for opiate detox". The first site has a post from "mamapoppy" that I think is excellect for no drug detox, which is what you need to strive for. Replacing this drug for that drug is the thinking you need to banish. Doing a drug free detox will be a great detox, but as importantly, it will be the first very important step of behavior modification instilling a truly drug free life. Also acupuncure will be very good for pain and craving  management and it's not expensive. Hang in there, you'll be living again in no time!

[Ratkos]

When I quit years ago the idea of going all day was nearly impossible. I literally had to set 15-30 minute goals for myself. This may not be a bad idea for your son, especially early on when he is filled with anxiety and panic.

[snoozieQ255]

Hi...I just wrote this long post, and it didn't show up...I didn't realize I wasn't logged in. So if this shows up twice, it's because I didn't do this exactly right.
What I had written before is pretty similar to this....You were right. my son did have vicodin to take for his trip home from Idaho on Friday.  So, I thought yesterday was day 2 and it was really only day1 and trust me, it didn't go well.  I guess I have to get real with myself that lying is part of the disease, but I was surprised that he wasn't honest, since this was all his idea for me to help him, I thought he was being completely honest.  But..I'll leave that in the past. moving forward.
He seemed to be doing fairly ok....quiet not talking, some complaining, but mostly seemed to be wanting to sleep.  He ate ONE banana yesterday, that  was it for eating.  He won't drink water for some reason, but did drink a lot of gatorade and took all the medications suggested in the Thomas recipie.  So...I was feeling relatively ok...like, so far, so good.  In the afternoon he asked about going over to visit with my other son who lives here in town.  I thought maybe this was a good idea, get him out and also knock off a few more hours of time that seemed to be really dragging for him.  Well my other son picked him up and I told him (my oldest) to call when he was ready to come back, I would come and get him.  I honestly thought by the way he was acting it would be an hour at the most.  He had already stated earlier, "mom, I don't think I can do this."  This was day 1!  I told him he had NO CHOICE...he is over here, no one is going to get this drug for him and he has no connections to find any.  I also told him he had NO CHOICE in this matter, as his next move will be to being homeless....his house will  most likely be going into foreclosure soon.    Anyway, hours went by and no call, so I called over there and I was told he was having a couple of beers, I basically freeked out, but my husband and everyone thought a "couple of beers" would be ok, help him to feel normal and maybe relax him a little.  I had my doubts, but just decided to go with that, because it was easier, I guess.  Anyway, a few MORE hours go by, I call again, and now he is drinking hard alcohol.  I freaked out and got so angry, my husband went and got him and we major argued over it. he told me it was helping to "flush" it out of his system.  I told him that was ridiculous, that was what the water is supposed to be doing......anyway, he came home and stomped off to the bedroom I fixed up for him.  I wondered to myself, ok, is he 36 or 16?  I guess I am expecting too much?  I now have anxiety that he isn't as ready to kick this as he lead me to believe when he was "begging" me with all his heart to come and get him and help him kick it and could he detox here?  My youngest son was very nervous about the whole thing, he really didn't want to give it to him, but the oldest boy can be pretty manipulative and like me..my youngest son is easy going and easily manipulated.  ( we both have suffered from the "people pleaser" syndrome)
My youngest son truly believes with all HIS heart that my other son is really really ready and sincere about getting off this vicodin....but he was looking for alcohol to help relieve the symptoms.  I told him I have never seen once anywhere anyone giving that as advice for help!!  I know the fear of turning to alcohol as a replacement is a likely outcome.  I know he needs help, not only with this addiction, but with his mental addiction of having the need to be in a constant "altered" state.  He used to have a pretty severe hard alcohol problem (addiction I suppose) but I was so happy when he told me 4 or so years ago that he wasn't drinking anymore!  Now, I know why........this was better, I guess.
Anyway, this is my update of how we have progressed so far...and it was only day 1.  I can see there is a rocky road ahead.  I may start looking for inpatient care, but he is in that grey area of no insurance but he does have an unemployment income that disqualfies him for free care, ( I would guess anyway)  but CERTAINLY isn't enough to pay for treatment.  He can't even make his house payment with what he gets.   So, this is how day 1 went.  I will try and post tomorrow about day 2.  Thanks everyone for their help, thoughts, and well wishes, and hopefully some prayers, too!

[snoozieQ255]

Today is so much better!!  Oh my goodness....we went to ER yesterday and they gave him a clonidine patch and something for nausea.  A world of difference today.  Today is more like the flu, except he's been able to eat some.  All of the advice, tips and help I think made a WORLD of difference!!  Thanks everyone, I know there is a long road still to travel, don't get me wrong...but he is feeling so much better, that we have been able to talk about things.  At least we have made a start.........I will try and continue to post updates in case it helps someone else....

[windowsca]

The 2nd step, abandoning the "justify and deny" mentality is harder than getting off the drugs I think!  Those f****** opiates as soooo tough!  Good job in the battle ;o)

[snoozieQ255]

Hi, is there any chance you know how long it takes a clonidine transdermal patch to start working?  My son had it put on by 10:30 am on last Sunday morning and was given a nauseau pill as well at the ER.  By around 8:00 that same evening my son said he was starting to feel better and actually ate a little bit of dinner and didn't seem to be as uncomfortable, and the next day he was kind of laying around but said he couldn't actually believe how much better he was feeling and how well the clonidine patch was working.  My other son said he read it takes more like 2 days for it to start and he is making me wonder if my son had a secret stash and took some vicodin and that is why he was "feeling" so much better.  I told my other son I believed him as I was sitting with him straight for about 5 or more hours and started seeing him begin to relax at around about 8 hours after the patch was placed.  Is it not possible for that patch to have started working in 8 hours?  

[windowsca]

Hi!  Glad to see you're hanging in there!  I found the info you already have to be accurate at http://www.rxlist.com/catapres-tts-drug.htm  It is possible that it's phsycological.  Mind over matter proves effective in all kinds of clinical trials over and over again.  One more reason, I'm such a proponent of holistic treatments.   Hope this helps and good luck!

[davo919]

look into SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX use to have a oxycontin promblem myself for 5 years was in a bad car reck.  SUBOXONE is what i take its great you can carry on in your life with no pain or withdrawls just make sure you do not mix methadone.  if your son is addicted to opiods the suboxon works beatifully. it reallly save my life. no withdrawls or pain its almost like magic. the drug is not half or even close to methadone cause it really does not make you high in any way only if you are addicted to opiods should you take it though.  look it up on the internet and thers doctors everywhere the only promblem with it is they are starting to become exspensive but soon in the fall of this year they are making a generic so it should be cheaper. Good luck trust me i know what he is going threw its like having the flu multiplied by 10. but the SUBOXONE takes all of that AWay

[LateAugust]

Here's my news flash....   Suboxone is NOT a miracle magic wand.   IF  it is used in conjunction with intensive in patient and out patient  treatment -  rehabilitation and on going after care,  it can allow you to focus on recovery.  However if you think all you have to do is take Suboxone and all is right in your world,  IMHO you are sadly mistaken and will pay the price at some point down the road.....   Please do not misunderstand,  I think when all other drug addiction  resources have been exhausted   and  you have done a lot of research   AND you have an intensive drug addiction treatment plan in place, Suboxone can assist some people in their journey to recover.....  it is one of many tools   that can help opiate addiction.    Unfortunately there is no easy way out of addiction........    and you should try all and any avenues available to you to stop the destruction.

PS  I am the mom of an addict,  been there, done that,  more times than I care to remember.....  if  I can help you in anyway  please let me know....  also you can read my bazillion posts of what I have experienced with my child.   My best wishes to you and your son.  I truly understand your heartache   and   to some degree his pain as well.

[windowsca]

Hi again, I understand seeking pain management ~ as a last resort ~ for cronic pain after an accident, but I've been watching your post since the beginning and don't recall that being the problem.  Also, at the beginning you wanted to get him off drugs, not replace them..If you look up Suboxone, on any drug info online site, before you ever get to the info, there will be several advertisements for "Detox for Suboxone"  I don't know what drug they use to detox from the detox drugs, but this is not a good sign.  Don't go there.  Don't let him stay in an "I need drugs for whatever" rational his brain is conjuring up at the moment - this is why it is sooo stressed to get aftertreatment - behavior modification.  Hang in there!

[snoozieQ255]

Oh trust me, suboxone or whatever the heck it is...is DEFINITELY not in our plan!  Someone just wrote me that as a suggestion.....I'm sure it has or must help some people, but I have seen postings that say..".Help I am addicted to suboxone!"  No...the closest thing to a drug that we used is clonidine and I understand it is basically a high blood pressure medication. I got all the suggestions on the Thomas recipe and something for nausea.  It seems to be helping, but I don't think clonodine is  addictive, at least I certainly hope not!  Our goal is to get off any of that kind of thing!!!!  Thanks for your help, and information.  It sure sounds like I could have a long road to travel before this is over.......My son has returned back home, and that is a worry...but he does have a loving wife (actually his girlfriend of 10 years he has lived with, but by now I think of her as his wife) who wants  him to be clean as much as I do, and he SAYS he is done....I guess only God knows for sure?  I am keeping in touch daily with him and her for his progress.  I have to admit he sounds good and positive and is actually making decisions that make much more sense than before.  I do know in my heart if he isn't doing it, it won't be long before I will know for sure.  I'm trying to be positive...

[movienut]

I weaned off without any problems really, but as some have told me I wasnt addicted I was dependent. He has to have willpower and want to be normal again. Its his fight with the devil and his alone, support can only go so far. He can do it and is lucky to have you.

[mr.lucky66]

Anyone can get off of vicodin . It is a kiddie narcotic compared to others but it is still an addiction. The hard thing is to stay off once the detox is over. Everyone on this board is fixated on detox and like me it seems like a lot of people here keep going back as I used to. DETOX IS THE EASY PART! The hard part is to STAY OFF of dope weather it's vicodin or heroin

[peaceinknowing]

I have to hand it to you, because you were there for your son when he obviously needed someone the most. Having your son come all the way out to your house to detox at home was a huge step, and I hope that he sticks with it. I know this is going to sound weird, but does your son's girlfriend of 10 years have an addiction problem as well?

The reason I ask this, is because you stated that he has ventured back home to his house and to her, too. I hope he sticks with this.. Not only for himself as well as his hapiness; But also for you, and so that you no longer have to watch what he had to endure.

[snoozieQ255]

I am not totally sure about his girlfriend.  I know she takes a prescription for vicodin for her back.  Apparently she has been on that for years for a back injury.  I don't think she abuses that....but you know they live a whole state away from me.  I have spent several hours on the phone with her this past week and a half, and while my son was with me, and she sure sounds sincere about wanting to help him.  She told me she will NEVER, NEVER let him get started on that again, she had felt helpless to make him stop.  Of course, if he does start again....I don't know what would change for her that she would NEVER let him start again.  I'm sure he would at first, I suppose, try and hide it from her.  We talked about her prescription and she said she would talk to her doctor about switching it to something else, although I worry it would just be a different narcotic.  The reason I say, I'm not 100% sure she doesn't have at least a little problem, is why would you still take a narcotic YEARS AND YEARS after a back injury?  But, I don't know about those things, I have never been to a doctor that would prescribe something like that for so long.  I wish doctors would be more careful with what they prescribe and for how long....but that's just me....I'm trying not to blame the doctor that gave my son vicodin for a whole year.  That just seems so ridiculous to me....but at the same time, my son is a grown man, and he should have stopped on his own..or at least that is the way it seems to me.  I do know they have always enjoyed drinking on the weekend evenings.  They don't drink during the week, but they feel they are entitled to getting a buzz on the weekend evenings.  When I look back at when I was their age, I do remember my husband and myself would visit with friends and we would usually always do a little drinking, so I have always told myself there is nothing wrong with that.  Of course, I have no idea really, how much of this drinking is taking place.  My son was bragging to me that they have stopped drinking pretty much, but now I find out it is because he has found something that apparently is more fun.  
So, anyway, to answer that question about his girlfriend, I am not 100% sure if she hasn't at least some culpibility to the problem, at least maybe in the beginning, but when things started to really get out of hand, I do think she panicked, and wanted him to get clean.  I think or definitely do feel as she is extremely worried and sincere about his getting off this drug and getting  help and getting clean.  I think she wants their lives back, this past year especially has been a hellish nightmare.
I started out thinking this was a vicodin problem, but during the time he was here he confessed this be a lot more of oxycotin (if he could get it anyway).  I don't know if that makes this any harder to kick or if it is relatively the same as getting off vicodin.  
Thanks for taking the time to write.

[snoozieQ255]

Hi, thanks for your comment, that would be a relief to think this is a kiddie narcotic.  For a kiddie narcotic, he sure has ran his entire life into the grave.  Once he was here, he seemed liked he was talking more about oxycotin....Is that worse than vicodin?  I guess it must be stronger than vicodin.  I think either way, whichever one he could get his hands on.  If he had enough money or found a possible way, he would use oxycotin, he was saying.  He said he would take 2 -80"s in the morning, and then a couple more times in the day if he possibly could find the money to do more.  I think he said 80's?  If that seems possible?  I don't know how you could live doing that.  Anyway, he has re-mortgaged the house, which now he can't make the payments because of a job loss, he has taken out credit cards and maxed them to the hilt for cash advances, he has hawked everything he used to own at one time.  I would hate to think what it would be like if it was a more serious addiction....Maybe this oxycotin addiction is way worse than just vicodin.  He has found every possible way...short of stealing....to get money for it.  Even their car has something called a "title loan" on it, there are pay day loans, oh my gosh, it is so overwhelming!  I have been in such shock, only a few years ago, he had a small mortgage and no credit card debt and a 799 credit score...now, all of that is completly gone....EVERYTHING!  just for drugs........

[mr.lucky66]

yes oxy is stronger. It isn't nearly as addictive as other drugs but it can still ruin your life. You are doing a good thing,.

[peaceinknowing]

I know what you're saying in your response, trust me. A lot of times with addiction, there comes a point in time where you're standing at a crossroad where you just don't know who to trust and who not to trust. If she sounds sincere about assisting him with getting of these pills then the only thing you can do [for right now] is to be there for him and her in helping out in any way that you possibly can.

I'm not sure if you read my story, so I'll give you a little background so maybe you can understand where I'm coming from when I say the next few lines to you. I'm 28 years old and I have a bad back problem that we're not sure HOW it started out, other than I was in a mild car accident that caused inflammation in my lower discs. I started to have seriously bad back pains almost two years ago, and my PCP has prescribed me Percocet for it every other week since... That is, until I called and spoke with him over the phone and told him that I felt as though I was becoming dependant and/or addicted to the pain pills. This is when he cut me off CT and told me to go somewhere else in order to get help, because he wanted nothing to do with it. Today I am 15 days sober from those nasty little pills, and I have this forum to thank as well as God because of this.

The reason I told you the "small" synopsis on my story and why I'm here is because I think you have an amazing point when you mentioned being upset with the doctor right now. I know what that is like, trust me. There are so many people who will tell you not to be upset or enraged with the PCP, but then there are people like you and myself that find it hard not to be upset with what they've done to assist with the addiction. Not every two people are the same when it comes to popping a pill. I stand very firm on the ground I walk on when I say that I never took one pill over what my PCP prescribed and/or told me to take throughout the length of my script. There were many times I went to him and informed him that I felt as though I was getting hooked on the pills, but he brushed this off and told me to keep pushing forward until we found out the "root of the problem" with everything going on with me that dealt with the pain aspect of everything. The last time I spoke to my PCP, he told me that I was a deceiptful little girl who was lying to him all along JUST to get these pain pills. Here I am at 28 years old and I have to scoot down the stairs just to get from my second level to my first level because the pain is so bad with what's going on with me. Does that look deceiptful to someone? I'm not sure how... But he sure thinks so!

Just a little FYI, I'm now speaking with the board of directors affilliated with his office about this entire situation to get these doctors further educated on what it means when they hand out a prescription for ANY narcotic medication and then cut a patient off CT to the point where they are so sick and out of work for a week. The nurses and some of the members of this board whole heartedly agreed with me. They reviewed ALL my medical records dating back as far as 2000 [even though none of the pain was going on then -- they did it just for safety to see IF there really was an issue of doctor shopping, etc.] and found that I was being completely honest with him.

Keep pushing forward is my best advice to you and your husband. Times will get worse for him, though, but I'm sure that he will get through this! PLEASE, once again, keep us posted on everything and let us know about the progress that he is making!