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Avatar universal

I want to help my son get off vicodin!

My 36 year old son is coming home tomorrow and he has asked me to help him through an at home detox off of vicodin.  I guess he occassionaly uses oxycoton but primarily used vicodin.  I think this is a 3-4 year addiction, escalating to the point of popping up to 20- .75m vicodin at a time.  That sounds unbelievable to me, but I am certain that is what he told me.  We plan to go "cold turkey" as he has lost his job, and we have no money and no insurance for him to see a doctor for help.  I have called our local hospital ER, and they said if he gets in a bad way, I can take him in there as they can't refuse anyone for un-ability to pay.  I have heard you could have a heart attack or stroke, and or seizures.  Can anyone help me with advice on what to do?  I have heard the first 4-5 days is the worst.  I plan to have gatoraide and lots of fresh water for dehydration and tons of prayers!  As the day gets closer, the more afraid I am for him, and me, as well.  I would appreciate any advice or help!!  Please...
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960021 tn?1270662682
I know what you're saying in your response, trust me. A lot of times with addiction, there comes a point in time where you're standing at a crossroad where you just don't know who to trust and who not to trust. If she sounds sincere about assisting him with getting of these pills then the only thing you can do [for right now] is to be there for him and her in helping out in any way that you possibly can.

I'm not sure if you read my story, so I'll give you a little background so maybe you can understand where I'm coming from when I say the next few lines to you. I'm 28 years old and I have a bad back problem that we're not sure HOW it started out, other than I was in a mild car accident that caused inflammation in my lower discs. I started to have seriously bad back pains almost two years ago, and my PCP has prescribed me Percocet for it every other week since... That is, until I called and spoke with him over the phone and told him that I felt as though I was becoming dependant and/or addicted to the pain pills. This is when he cut me off CT and told me to go somewhere else in order to get help, because he wanted nothing to do with it. Today I am 15 days sober from those nasty little pills, and I have this forum to thank as well as God because of this.

The reason I told you the "small" synopsis on my story and why I'm here is because I think you have an amazing point when you mentioned being upset with the doctor right now. I know what that is like, trust me. There are so many people who will tell you not to be upset or enraged with the PCP, but then there are people like you and myself that find it hard not to be upset with what they've done to assist with the addiction. Not every two people are the same when it comes to popping a pill. I stand very firm on the ground I walk on when I say that I never took one pill over what my PCP prescribed and/or told me to take throughout the length of my script. There were many times I went to him and informed him that I felt as though I was getting hooked on the pills, but he brushed this off and told me to keep pushing forward until we found out the "root of the problem" with everything going on with me that dealt with the pain aspect of everything. The last time I spoke to my PCP, he told me that I was a deceiptful little girl who was lying to him all along JUST to get these pain pills. Here I am at 28 years old and I have to scoot down the stairs just to get from my second level to my first level because the pain is so bad with what's going on with me. Does that look deceiptful to someone? I'm not sure how... But he sure thinks so!

Just a little FYI, I'm now speaking with the board of directors affilliated with his office about this entire situation to get these doctors further educated on what it means when they hand out a prescription for ANY narcotic medication and then cut a patient off CT to the point where they are so sick and out of work for a week. The nurses and some of the members of this board whole heartedly agreed with me. They reviewed ALL my medical records dating back as far as 2000 [even though none of the pain was going on then -- they did it just for safety to see IF there really was an issue of doctor shopping, etc.] and found that I was being completely honest with him.

Keep pushing forward is my best advice to you and your husband. Times will get worse for him, though, but I'm sure that he will get through this! PLEASE, once again, keep us posted on everything and let us know about the progress that he is making!
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228936 tn?1249094248
yes oxy is stronger. It isn't nearly as addictive as other drugs but it can still ruin your life. You are doing a good thing,.
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Avatar universal
Hi, thanks for your comment, that would be a relief to think this is a kiddie narcotic.  For a kiddie narcotic, he sure has ran his entire life into the grave.  Once he was here, he seemed liked he was talking more about oxycotin....Is that worse than vicodin?  I guess it must be stronger than vicodin.  I think either way, whichever one he could get his hands on.  If he had enough money or found a possible way, he would use oxycotin, he was saying.  He said he would take 2 -80"s in the morning, and then a couple more times in the day if he possibly could find the money to do more.  I think he said 80's?  If that seems possible?  I don't know how you could live doing that.  Anyway, he has re-mortgaged the house, which now he can't make the payments because of a job loss, he has taken out credit cards and maxed them to the hilt for cash advances, he has hawked everything he used to own at one time.  I would hate to think what it would be like if it was a more serious addiction....Maybe this oxycotin addiction is way worse than just vicodin.  He has found every possible way...short of stealing....to get money for it.  Even their car has something called a "title loan" on it, there are pay day loans, oh my gosh, it is so overwhelming!  I have been in such shock, only a few years ago, he had a small mortgage and no credit card debt and a 799 credit score...now, all of that is completly gone....EVERYTHING!  just for drugs........
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Avatar universal
I am not totally sure about his girlfriend.  I know she takes a prescription for vicodin for her back.  Apparently she has been on that for years for a back injury.  I don't think she abuses that....but you know they live a whole state away from me.  I have spent several hours on the phone with her this past week and a half, and while my son was with me, and she sure sounds sincere about wanting to help him.  She told me she will NEVER, NEVER let him get started on that again, she had felt helpless to make him stop.  Of course, if he does start again....I don't know what would change for her that she would NEVER let him start again.  I'm sure he would at first, I suppose, try and hide it from her.  We talked about her prescription and she said she would talk to her doctor about switching it to something else, although I worry it would just be a different narcotic.  The reason I say, I'm not 100% sure she doesn't have at least a little problem, is why would you still take a narcotic YEARS AND YEARS after a back injury?  But, I don't know about those things, I have never been to a doctor that would prescribe something like that for so long.  I wish doctors would be more careful with what they prescribe and for how long....but that's just me....I'm trying not to blame the doctor that gave my son vicodin for a whole year.  That just seems so ridiculous to me....but at the same time, my son is a grown man, and he should have stopped on his own..or at least that is the way it seems to me.  I do know they have always enjoyed drinking on the weekend evenings.  They don't drink during the week, but they feel they are entitled to getting a buzz on the weekend evenings.  When I look back at when I was their age, I do remember my husband and myself would visit with friends and we would usually always do a little drinking, so I have always told myself there is nothing wrong with that.  Of course, I have no idea really, how much of this drinking is taking place.  My son was bragging to me that they have stopped drinking pretty much, but now I find out it is because he has found something that apparently is more fun.  
So, anyway, to answer that question about his girlfriend, I am not 100% sure if she hasn't at least some culpibility to the problem, at least maybe in the beginning, but when things started to really get out of hand, I do think she panicked, and wanted him to get clean.  I think or definitely do feel as she is extremely worried and sincere about his getting off this drug and getting  help and getting clean.  I think she wants their lives back, this past year especially has been a hellish nightmare.
I started out thinking this was a vicodin problem, but during the time he was here he confessed this be a lot more of oxycotin (if he could get it anyway).  I don't know if that makes this any harder to kick or if it is relatively the same as getting off vicodin.  
Thanks for taking the time to write.
Helpful - 0
960021 tn?1270662682
I have to hand it to you, because you were there for your son when he obviously needed someone the most. Having your son come all the way out to your house to detox at home was a huge step, and I hope that he sticks with it. I know this is going to sound weird, but does your son's girlfriend of 10 years have an addiction problem as well?

The reason I ask this, is because you stated that he has ventured back home to his house and to her, too. I hope he sticks with this.. Not only for himself as well as his hapiness; But also for you, and so that you no longer have to watch what he had to endure.
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228936 tn?1249094248
Anyone can get off of vicodin . It is a kiddie narcotic compared to others but it is still an addiction. The hard thing is to stay off once the detox is over. Everyone on this board is fixated on detox and like me it seems like a lot of people here keep going back as I used to. DETOX IS THE EASY PART! The hard part is to STAY OFF of dope weather it's vicodin or heroin
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Avatar universal
I weaned off without any problems really, but as some have told me I wasnt addicted I was dependent. He has to have willpower and want to be normal again. Its his fight with the devil and his alone, support can only go so far. He can do it and is lucky to have you.
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Avatar universal
Oh trust me, suboxone or whatever the heck it is...is DEFINITELY not in our plan!  Someone just wrote me that as a suggestion.....I'm sure it has or must help some people, but I have seen postings that say..".Help I am addicted to suboxone!"  No...the closest thing to a drug that we used is clonidine and I understand it is basically a high blood pressure medication. I got all the suggestions on the Thomas recipe and something for nausea.  It seems to be helping, but I don't think clonodine is  addictive, at least I certainly hope not!  Our goal is to get off any of that kind of thing!!!!  Thanks for your help, and information.  It sure sounds like I could have a long road to travel before this is over.......My son has returned back home, and that is a worry...but he does have a loving wife (actually his girlfriend of 10 years he has lived with, but by now I think of her as his wife) who wants  him to be clean as much as I do, and he SAYS he is done....I guess only God knows for sure?  I am keeping in touch daily with him and her for his progress.  I have to admit he sounds good and positive and is actually making decisions that make much more sense than before.  I do know in my heart if he isn't doing it, it won't be long before I will know for sure.  I'm trying to be positive...
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Avatar universal
Hi again, I understand seeking pain management ~ as a last resort ~ for cronic pain after an accident, but I've been watching your post since the beginning and don't recall that being the problem.  Also, at the beginning you wanted to get him off drugs, not replace them..If you look up Suboxone, on any drug info online site, before you ever get to the info, there will be several advertisements for "Detox for Suboxone"  I don't know what drug they use to detox from the detox drugs, but this is not a good sign.  Don't go there.  Don't let him stay in an "I need drugs for whatever" rational his brain is conjuring up at the moment - this is why it is sooo stressed to get aftertreatment - behavior modification.  Hang in there!
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Avatar universal
Here's my news flash....   Suboxone is NOT a miracle magic wand.   IF  it is used in conjunction with intensive in patient and out patient  treatment -  rehabilitation and on going after care,  it can allow you to focus on recovery.  However if you think all you have to do is take Suboxone and all is right in your world,  IMHO you are sadly mistaken and will pay the price at some point down the road.....   Please do not misunderstand,  I think when all other drug addiction  resources have been exhausted   and  you have done a lot of research   AND you have an intensive drug addiction treatment plan in place, Suboxone can assist some people in their journey to recover.....  it is one of many tools   that can help opiate addiction.    Unfortunately there is no easy way out of addiction........    and you should try all and any avenues available to you to stop the destruction.

PS  I am the mom of an addict,  been there, done that,  more times than I care to remember.....  if  I can help you in anyway  please let me know....  also you can read my bazillion posts of what I have experienced with my child.   My best wishes to you and your son.  I truly understand your heartache   and   to some degree his pain as well.
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Avatar universal
look into SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX use to have a oxycontin promblem myself for 5 years was in a bad car reck.  SUBOXONE is what i take its great you can carry on in your life with no pain or withdrawls just make sure you do not mix methadone.  if your son is addicted to opiods the suboxon works beatifully. it reallly save my life. no withdrawls or pain its almost like magic. the drug is not half or even close to methadone cause it really does not make you high in any way only if you are addicted to opiods should you take it though.  look it up on the internet and thers doctors everywhere the only promblem with it is they are starting to become exspensive but soon in the fall of this year they are making a generic so it should be cheaper. Good luck trust me i know what he is going threw its like having the flu multiplied by 10. but the SUBOXONE takes all of that AWay
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Avatar universal
Hi!  Glad to see you're hanging in there!  I found the info you already have to be accurate at http://www.rxlist.com/catapres-tts-drug.htm  It is possible that it's phsycological.  Mind over matter proves effective in all kinds of clinical trials over and over again.  One more reason, I'm such a proponent of holistic treatments.   Hope this helps and good luck!
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Avatar universal
Hi, is there any chance you know how long it takes a clonidine transdermal patch to start working?  My son had it put on by 10:30 am on last Sunday morning and was given a nauseau pill as well at the ER.  By around 8:00 that same evening my son said he was starting to feel better and actually ate a little bit of dinner and didn't seem to be as uncomfortable, and the next day he was kind of laying around but said he couldn't actually believe how much better he was feeling and how well the clonidine patch was working.  My other son said he read it takes more like 2 days for it to start and he is making me wonder if my son had a secret stash and took some vicodin and that is why he was "feeling" so much better.  I told my other son I believed him as I was sitting with him straight for about 5 or more hours and started seeing him begin to relax at around about 8 hours after the patch was placed.  Is it not possible for that patch to have started working in 8 hours?  
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271792 tn?1334979657
You really made my day!

I am so happy that he is sticking with it and that you two are talking. I am sure there is a lot to talk about.

Please make certain that he gets into an aftercare program. He will need to learn how to stay off the drugs. It is so important.

Hope to hear from you!!!!!
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Avatar universal
The 2nd step, abandoning the "justify and deny" mentality is harder than getting off the drugs I think!  Those f****** opiates as soooo tough!  Good job in the battle ;o)
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Avatar universal
Today is so much better!!  Oh my goodness....we went to ER yesterday and they gave him a clonidine patch and something for nausea.  A world of difference today.  Today is more like the flu, except he's been able to eat some.  All of the advice, tips and help I think made a WORLD of difference!!  Thanks everyone, I know there is a long road still to travel, don't get me wrong...but he is feeling so much better, that we have been able to talk about things.  At least we have made a start.........I will try and continue to post updates in case it helps someone else....
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Avatar universal
Hi...I just wrote this long post, and it didn't show up...I didn't realize I wasn't logged in. So if this shows up twice, it's because I didn't do this exactly right.
What I had written before is pretty similar to this....You were right. my son did have vicodin to take for his trip home from Idaho on Friday.  So, I thought yesterday was day 2 and it was really only day1 and trust me, it didn't go well.  I guess I have to get real with myself that lying is part of the disease, but I was surprised that he wasn't honest, since this was all his idea for me to help him, I thought he was being completely honest.  But..I'll leave that in the past. moving forward.
He seemed to be doing fairly ok....quiet not talking, some complaining, but mostly seemed to be wanting to sleep.  He ate ONE banana yesterday, that  was it for eating.  He won't drink water for some reason, but did drink a lot of gatorade and took all the medications suggested in the Thomas recipie.  So...I was feeling relatively ok...like, so far, so good.  In the afternoon he asked about going over to visit with my other son who lives here in town.  I thought maybe this was a good idea, get him out and also knock off a few more hours of time that seemed to be really dragging for him.  Well my other son picked him up and I told him (my oldest) to call when he was ready to come back, I would come and get him.  I honestly thought by the way he was acting it would be an hour at the most.  He had already stated earlier, "mom, I don't think I can do this."  This was day 1!  I told him he had NO CHOICE...he is over here, no one is going to get this drug for him and he has no connections to find any.  I also told him he had NO CHOICE in this matter, as his next move will be to being homeless....his house will  most likely be going into foreclosure soon.    Anyway, hours went by and no call, so I called over there and I was told he was having a couple of beers, I basically freeked out, but my husband and everyone thought a "couple of beers" would be ok, help him to feel normal and maybe relax him a little.  I had my doubts, but just decided to go with that, because it was easier, I guess.  Anyway, a few MORE hours go by, I call again, and now he is drinking hard alcohol.  I freaked out and got so angry, my husband went and got him and we major argued over it. he told me it was helping to "flush" it out of his system.  I told him that was ridiculous, that was what the water is supposed to be doing......anyway, he came home and stomped off to the bedroom I fixed up for him.  I wondered to myself, ok, is he 36 or 16?  I guess I am expecting too much?  I now have anxiety that he isn't as ready to kick this as he lead me to believe when he was "begging" me with all his heart to come and get him and help him kick it and could he detox here?  My youngest son was very nervous about the whole thing, he really didn't want to give it to him, but the oldest boy can be pretty manipulative and like me..my youngest son is easy going and easily manipulated.  ( we both have suffered from the "people pleaser" syndrome)
My youngest son truly believes with all HIS heart that my other son is really really ready and sincere about getting off this vicodin....but he was looking for alcohol to help relieve the symptoms.  I told him I have never seen once anywhere anyone giving that as advice for help!!  I know the fear of turning to alcohol as a replacement is a likely outcome.  I know he needs help, not only with this addiction, but with his mental addiction of having the need to be in a constant "altered" state.  He used to have a pretty severe hard alcohol problem (addiction I suppose) but I was so happy when he told me 4 or so years ago that he wasn't drinking anymore!  Now, I know why........this was better, I guess.
Anyway, this is my update of how we have progressed so far...and it was only day 1.  I can see there is a rocky road ahead.  I may start looking for inpatient care, but he is in that grey area of no insurance but he does have an unemployment income that disqualfies him for free care, ( I would guess anyway)  but CERTAINLY isn't enough to pay for treatment.  He can't even make his house payment with what he gets.   So, this is how day 1 went.  I will try and post tomorrow about day 2.  Thanks everyone for their help, thoughts, and well wishes, and hopefully some prayers, too!
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Avatar universal
When I quit years ago the idea of going all day was nearly impossible. I literally had to set 15-30 minute goals for myself. This may not be a bad idea for your son, especially early on when he is filled with anxiety and panic.

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Avatar universal
Hey JT!  I hope I can be of help. I want you to get through this like you were my own. And you can if you know what to do.  I think one of the reasons it's so hard to get the right help, esp. with opiate addiction, is because many  tend to think drugs are drugs and generalize that they all work the same. Mind over matter will make quiting easier but education is key so you know what you are fighting. All drugs are not the same. If you have your parents read the "Fighting Relapse" article in the health pages, they will have a better understanding of why stopping opiates is something you probably cannot do just because you want to. It's completely possible, you don't understand it yourself. I was talking to my own mom, just this morning about the opiate addiction epidemic. She mentioned (after I named moraphine as being an opiate like Oxy)that my Dad had been on moraphine for over a month, after a very bad car accident and asked why hadn't he gotten addicted. After I explained the whole domamine / endorphine, pain / plessure thing of brain vs drugs she said "Why do these kids take stuff that does that? (As if it's just 'a kid' problem) Didn't Anton (my 20 year old son) know this would happen?".(He got addicted through a scrip...the explaining never ends:) To which I replied, how do you excect anyone, let alone a (then)17 year old, to know what you haven't known in 70+ years?  Our society has become so entrenched in the "a pill fixes everything" mindset. I see it over and over, even on this site. "What drug should I take to get off this drug?" This Kind of thinking WILL NEVER FIX YOUR ADDICTION it will just be your new temporary bandaid.  

Bottom line - educate yourself on alternative detox and how this drug takes over your brain, so you don't fool yourself into thinking quiting is enough. You will see the same advice all over the place - you HAVE to reprogram your behavior after you get through detox or getting clean will not last   your parent need to understand this or all their help will be useless. I mentioned in another post, if you google "herbs for opiate detox". The first site has a post from "mamapoppy" that I think is excellect for no drug detox, which is what you need to strive for. Replacing this drug for that drug is the thinking you need to banish. Doing a drug free detox will be a great detox, but as importantly, it will be the first very important step of behavior modification instilling a truly drug free life. Also acupuncure will be very good for pain and craving  management and it's not expensive. Hang in there, you'll be living again in no time!
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271792 tn?1334979657
Hi Hun,

I am sorry you are going through this and I hate to take you but it has only just begun.

He is an addict first and foremost. His thinking is that one pill is good, two are better, and hell 4 would really do the trick.

He will lie and manipulate you anyway he can to get what he wants right now and this is not going to be easy on the family.

I wish he were in a treatment facility where there were professionals to tend to his physical and mental needs. I commend you and I know you want to help but are in for a rough ride and if he doesn't get some kind of aftercare program he could relapse. The odds are not with him.

I feel like the bearer of bad news but I don't want to paint a pretty picture for you and have you think this would be a cake walk.

I hope you keep coming back and talking with us.
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Avatar universal
Hi again. Hopefully things are still going relatively well with this transition!  My son, especially given the insane dosage of Oxy he had gotten to, never really got so sick. Some heavy sweating, trouble sleeping, boredom and relatively minor leg and stomach cramps was about it. I do believe the acupuncture had something to do with that, but who can be sure. I had so many different things in place!  I really believe no drugs of any kind is key. It's important to do this without drugs to enforce the idea of being able to exist without them in any form. That's probably not an easy concept for them to grasp,so physical proof, through actually doing it should be most convincing.    

It is amazing how strong and protective we are with our kids, even when they aren't kids anymore. My son got addicted at end of 17 and is just turned 20, so in many ways, I still think of him as a kid. At any rate, I 100% agree that you have to support them through this no matter what or how long it takes. It's cheaper than a funeral. Their self esteem is already so low. No one chooses to be addicted.  I can't imagine how much worse it would be if you can't count on your own mother or loved ones. I heard, so many times, "it won't work unless they he wants it" and "you have to let him hit bottom". That's not gonna happen on my watch. As far as I'm concerned, hitting bottom is the same as dead. There is no need for all that, this is so very fixable. There has been much recent research proving, that even if the addict doesn't want help, in a long term (at least 4 months) behavioral modification program after physical use is stopped, it still does work.  If one thinks about it, a heavily drugged brain, is not capable of making a rational decision. If you had a kid heavily sedated with moraphine, say after a surgery, you certainly would discount any irrational decision he tried to make on his own, because you know it's the drugs causing him to be irrational. There is no difference between that and  this, so where is common sense in that advice?  For the record, it has also been proven that detox without follow up care to "reprogram" the brain is completely ineffective, almost every time.  I stay on top of this (it's my addiction ;o) because I know it can end anytime, like cancer coming back. The article in the health pages on fighting relapse is very helpful in understanding why. Hope you have a great day and many more to come!
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942290 tn?1252618549
hes probably not going to get any sleep for 2-4 days,snoozie. thats part of it. most dont, other than resorting to other addictive drugs to get the job done. dont use them, hes just going to have to rough it out. it will get better. use valarian root to try and help with the sleep and night time cold meds.


other than that dont give in no matter what. tell him to study his enemy, know how it works !!

good luck, and fight it this weekend to get over the hump. you guys can do this !!!!
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Avatar universal
Can you are anyone else answer this question?  I got benedryl for my son in replacement for any typeof valium or  xanax to help him with sleeping.  He has taken the dosages of vitamins, b-6, and all the other suggested meds.  This is only day 2 and I can see it already starting!  Now, I gave him 2 benedryl this morning a little after 7:00 and by 9:00, he was getting 2 more.  I told him he was supposed to wait 2 more hours and he said not to worry, it'll be ok.  I got this for him as I think it was supposed to help with anxiety which I can see that starting.  Can he hurt himself of this benedryl if he takes more than the dosage says, I mean more often than the dosage says?
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Avatar universal
Yes, he and my husband arrived here at about 2:00 yesterday afternoon.  We made it through day one, very easy....he says he quit the night before, so I can only trust that is what he did.  I feel very strongly, he would not have left over there, and left his girlfriend behind to come over here and sit in Mommy's house to detox, with all his siblings and Grandmother here watching, if he isn't EXTREMELY sincere about kicking this.  When their house sells, his girlfriend will come over here too, but that is probably AT LEAST a month or more away.  Once he detoxes and starts to feel better, he will start to look for work.  Our area isn't anywhere near as depressed an area where he lives in Idaho.  We actually still have jobs here and most people are still working.  Mostly in part to living near one of the largest Naval Bases in the country.  Anyway, that's off the track, I am just meaning to say, I feel strongly that he is being up and up with me...otherwise he would have stayed over there and continued to use and just phone and tell me he was "doing great!"  I will try and post on here how the days are going.  I hope everyone will keep us in their prayers and best wishes!  Thank you, IBKleen....and it sounds like congratulations must be in order for you as well, according to your name....
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