Addiction: Substance Abuse Community
I will be detoxing from longterm suboxone use and would like to extend ...
About This Community:

This community is a place to share information and support with others who are trying to stop using drugs, prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco or other addictive substances. Discuss with others, the symptoms of addiction, addiction recovery, ways to quit like tapering and cold turkey, and withdrawal symptoms. If you are interested in general "chat", please visit our Addiction Social Community.

Font Size:
A
A
A
Background:
Blank
Blank
Blank
Blank Blank

I will be detoxing from longterm suboxone use and would like to extend an invite for others to join me so that we can help support each other

I am about to emabark on a detox I have planned for about a year now. I have been on suboxone now for almost three years and I am finally paying heed to the downside. First, on the good side. Suboxone has helped me to stabilize my life along with AA and therapy. I have gone to school, become a drug counselor(I graduate this friday May 9th) become involved in a loving relationship, drastically improved my relationship with my family and stopped most of the negative behaviors associated with addiction. On the flip side however, suboxone is taking it's toll on me. The last time I was free of all drugs, was July of 05' after a protracted and painful detox from suboxone and methadone, which I had been on prior to the suboxone. I want to be completely sober again. Suboxone has ruined my sleep patterns, my creativity and robbed me of much of my enthusiasm for life. Since I no longer get natural highs, except from sex, I am ready to go through the arduous and drawn out detox that is a suboxone detox. I have been through many short term detoxes using suboxone and buprenex some as early as 95-96. I would like to share what will be my final detox with this community as I am actually going through it. In fact, I would like to invite others to detox with me at the same time. I will be done with school and have finished my last internship as a drug counselor and have set aside about 3 weeks to get through the worst of it. I am planning on using benzos during the first week and would like all the feedback possible. In exchange, I have a wealth of information about so many drugs. I have lived in 5 different countries and have been in more than 25 programs. The longest I have been in recovery is 21 months(current). While I have progressed in my life on suboxone I believe I have reached the point where it's effects are more harmful than helpful. Recovery is all about self-honesty and I know that to fully spread my wings in life, I must get off the suboxone. So, my detox starts on May 26th at which time I hope to be down to 2 mgs or less. Right now I am at 5mgs and I have been as high as 32mgs daily. I found that it is so much easier to taper when you split the dose into three or four administrations. A couple of months ago I got down to about two mgs a day but when it got tough at the end I decided to put the rdetox on hold until after my semester ended. So talk to me, I am originally from the NY/NJ area but have lived in the SF/ east bay area for the last five years.
Related Discussions
59 Comments Post a Comment
Blank
306867_tn?1299253309
I am doing a long slow taper off suboxone.  I'm not really sure how much I'm taking now. It's just a crumb.  Next week I think I will try and go to every other day with my crumb. Then every 3rd day. So far it has been painless.  I think if you jump off at 2mg you will really feel it. Keep me posted.   Mary
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hey,

I enjoyed reading your post and welcome and congrats,  on your plan/school and
all of the over things..I was detoxed off of hyrdocodone with suboxone and cant
understand why a Doctor would keep you on Suboxone for that long
of a period.  I was off of it in about 2 months...If your at 2mgs now try going to 1mg for a week maybe 2 weeks, than go to 1mg every other day for a week, than 1mg every 3 days before you know it will have forgotten to take your dose and you will not have w/ds and be clean....That is how my Doctor took me throught it..I did not suffer any w/ds at all..

That's just what I did nad my experiance...Good Luck..

Cocobean
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Oh and PS I have stayed off the pills for over a year, so I believe in the subx detox..
cocobean
Blank
306455_tn?1288865671
Good luck on your Sub detox. That is quite a high dose to jump off at, but totally your choice. I'm still at 3-4 mgs per day, started on Jan 30th. Not ready to jump off yet, but I'll be doing the slow and low taper.
Keep us updated on your progress.
Blank
446140_tn?1210127114
Oh my gosh!  Your post scares the heck out of me!  I just went through a HORRIBLE detox off of Oxycontin in the hospital.  They used Suboxone, and I am home and currently still taking it.  I do not want to get addicted to this too!!  The bottle says "Suboxone 8 MG - 2 MG Tablet".  I take 3 a day.  I don't understand the labeling.  Am I taking 8 mg tablets or 2 mg tablets?!  I know this is a far cry from the  10 to 15, 80mg tablets of Oxycontin per day that I was  snorting (long story what physical pain led to this), but still...I DO NOT want to get addicted to anything else!  I thought the Suboxone was going to be something easy to get off of when the time came (approx. 6 mo. per my psychiatrist)!  Please give your advise!  Perhaps it would be easier to wean off the Suboxone before I get dependent on it?!  I know the purpose is to keep me from going back to Oxy, but still....you know?  Sounds like you have a lot of experience so would love your take on it!  Thank you so very much!  I don't want to go through any more HORRIBLE detox's ever again!!
Blank
401095_tn?1351395370
I have no experience with suboxone other than what i read...i do like to learn and it is very sweet of u to share with the others on here that are tapering off...there is an angel living in your heart!
Blank
489042_tn?1211423977
Suboxone supposedly has a longer half life which makes it stay in your system longer therefore prolonging w/d's.   Don't get scared at this because it scared me, but I was reading that after I ran out of my medicine.  I've heared plenty people on this site do a month or two month suboxone regimen/taper and didn't detox...but in my expeirence on the suboxone for 9 months was the same w/d's as oxycodone.  I am ct now for 8 days, and it is worth every hour I wait for the next.  I'd talk to your pysc and see what he says about cutting that 6 months to say 3 months, there are plenty more here just like us so please keep posting and stay clean.
Blank
177036_tn?1192290235
Buprenorphine, (suboxone/subuten) has a half life of 37-1/2 hours and what you take today definitely effects two days from now.   So many times I've heard the long slow tapers are the best decreasing even slower as you go ending up ... say a crumb, every other day for a month.  It's easier to go from the higher doses down a percentage than the lower.  That's why some take two miligrams for a month and then 1 for two.  The main thing is that don't beat on yourself if you have to go back up for a few days because it beats relapsing!  This drug deserves a lot of respect because it is extremely powerful.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Yesterday and today I have gotten down to 3mgs 1mg every 8hrs or so. I am so determined to get off of everything that it is making it easier to taper. I agree with you guys that 2mgs is too high to drop off from. My last day to dose is the 26th of may and by god I want to be at least at one mg, hopefully less. You know what scared me was reading this other really long post that I read about suboxone a couple of days ago when I first discovered this site. It was so long that they split ity in to two parts. I agreed with some of the stuff the person was saying but all in all I think that he was too negative. A big part of getting through detox is being motivated, having support and then after the worst has passed, getting up off your *** and exercising. Last time I started walking up and down the hills near my house and eventually I started swimming. Within a month or two I was ecstatic, feeling better than I had in years. Hey let me ask you guys this. I was thinking of taking some benzos just for the first couple of days during the worst part, I also have a bottle of tramadol that I could use, but I am not sure if that will just prolong my discomfort. I don't have the time to taper down to just a crumb so I am going to do the best I can with the time frame I set up for myself.
Blank
401095_tn?1351395370
I have no experience with sub but did taper and quit hydros...soemtimes the goal u set..the time frame can be more important than the crumb...setting a date is so important as i have seen that those who do not...dont usually make it...good luck
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Please keep posting. i want to follow your progress. I have been on Subs since February 25. I take 12 mg/day.  8mg-2mg pills, half morn, half afternoon, half evening. I just went to my doctor tonight. He filled my script for the next month and I told him that next month I want to start a taper. I told him that the Subs got rid of the bad depression I had and if I start to taper I am worried about the depression returning. He wrote me a script for Zoloft.  The best of luck to you.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Down to 2 mgs today, I am feeling sluggish and the body aches are starting to arrive. I am taking .5 mgs every five to 6 hours. I sleep in two hour increments because more than that and I feel so messed up. I could never get below 2 mgs in my last taper. This time I got down to 2 much faster and with less discomfort. I really need to be at one by next monday so that I can have a full week at one or less before the final plunge. I think the important thing is to get as much of the detox out of the way before I go off completely. It is so much easier to suffer mildly as I am right now than to be going out of my mind as I did last time when I went cold turkey off sub when I was injecting 1mg four to five times a day IV. This week I will order the benzo I am to be taking for the first five days when I stop taking sub. Does anyone have any suggestions. I am thinking bromezapam or klonopin or maybe ativan
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Good luck to you, I quit Subutex earlier this year, and it was the toughest battle of my life. You sound just like me when  I quit. You know you are ready. I tapered down to around a 1/2mg or so, and was maintaining at 4mg. I was on it for about 6 months.

It will not be easy, this is a tough, tough wd. I won't lie and say it is easy. The worst part is the length of time. But stay strong, and take lots of hot baths. For me the toughest part was my job had just started for the season, and I almost lost it. I am athletic and could not get out of bed in the morning. Had I been new at my job, I woulda lost everything. Luckily I have been around a long long time, and my bosses were sympathetic.
Misinformation almost cost me my career.

Good luck to you.
Blank
401095_tn?1351395370
Vlaium is the recommended benzo for detox...less addictive than ativan, klonopin of xanax...not sure about bromezepam u mentioned...it has gotten a bad rap due to being the first benzo introduced for anxiety...safer than most tho
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Oh I forgot to mention Clonidin. NOT Klonopin, Clonidin is a boold pressure medicine that is used for opiate withdrawal. It works awesome! It also makes you tired at night, so it has a double bonus.
Ativan or Xanax for a week  probably would not hurt if you can keep it from becoming a habit. If you tell your doc to only give you a week supply, you should be fine.

Get Clonodin though, not addictive, and it really works well.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hey, did you write that really long post in two parts about sub. It was the first thing I read when I discovered this web-site. Thanx for the encouragement. I have tried clonidine many times over the years but it actually makes me feel worse so I don't take it. I think that it is awesome that you have detoxed and that you come to this site to help others, thank you. I just left my girlfriends because I am more comfortable going crazy in my house when I wake up with the w/d's, unfortunately my girlfriend is the jealous type and she thinks that I am up to something and I wish that she had a less fervent imagination. It's like I am really sick and she interprets that as "you don't like me anymore". Oh well, what are you gonna do. Hey if any women are reading this can you tell my girlfriend that it has nothing to do with her. Thanx
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
So valium, huh? I was thinking bromezapam because I have never taken it before and therefore my body might be less vulnerable to getting hooked. I have taken klonopin and xanax to excess and some ativan over the years and I get a little sick even if I only take them for a week. I am thinking that I will take benzos for the first 5 days only but I am still undecided. I figure that I will need something for sleep. Last time I detoxed from bupenorphine I got my gall-bladder taken out like 12 days into my detox and I was put on iv Dilaudid and then percocet and vicodin. When I finally detoxed from those meds a week later it wasn't so bad because of the hell I had just gone through with the bup. Anyway what is your situation, are you detoxed or are you still fighting the good fight?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Thankyou for your post. You really sound determined and that is wonderful. I have never taken suboxone but I was on methadone. I jumped off cold of 65mg of methadone. It is as i am sure you know probably the most horrible withdrawal there is. I do not really know how I did it and wouldn't do it again.Thankfully I do not have to because i will be 2 yrs off that **** on Aug.1 and then went cold off all the dang pain meds after 6 yrs of 10-14 a day give or take ,except when I was on  methadone..I do not know in what relation 2 mg of suboxone would be compared to 65 mg of methadone but as hard and horrible as the w/ds are..it is quite possible. I had very good support as far as a few people to take care of my children and a situation that simply did not allow me to escape from the w/ds..It took at least 2 weeks of pure torture with the methadone and then another 3 weeks to finally be able to leave my house and function in any capacity. it took a while to regain any energy. I am really hoping that suboxone is going to be nothing like that for you. you mentioned methadone...did you taper off that or quit cold. As to the benzo question...I have definately believe valium works a bit better during w/ds. I take xanax and it did not help me at all. I switched for a time to valium and I believe it works better in the sense that it's a much better muscle relaxer..So it helps in that way. As for sleep..I could find nothing that helped me get the sleep i so desperatly wanted and needed..Time was the only thing. I am 70 something days off pain meds and it took until recently to really be able to get proper sleep,for me thats about 5 hrs..Please keep us posted. Good luck to you..
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I did not write that article, but it really did help me. I am glad it is an easy reference at this point.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
So 12 days before the final wean and I am down to 1.5 mgs and I am handling it without to much discomfort. I just was shopping at trader joes,(spent 150 bucks) and started to get sick, I had less than one hour to go but I couldn't wait so I dosed a little early. Anyway at night when I finally do fall asleep I go a little extra before taking my next dose. Actually I am amazed at how quickly I am tapering. Last time when I got to two I hit a wall but this time it is different. The difference is my resolve and my incredible desire to feel life again. To laugh, cry, sing or whatever without an opiate blocking me from my feelings. I am so sick of being enslaved that I am doing everything that I need to, to make sure that this time is the time. I have been in recovery for almost two years but have hit a wall. I can't grow anymore until I get my feelings back. Anyway I love you guys for the support you give me and I hope that you find motivation and purpose as well. Now I am going to eat some goodies that I brought home with me and then smoke a cig which I am also quitting on the 26th of may. Every time I smoke now it makes me so tired and weak and I say to myself why? Why do I do this to myself? I don't know but I do know that I am done with smoking as of may 26th.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
First, I want to congratulate you on your courage - it takes quite a bit of tenacity and determination to get through years of addiction and get into recovery and follow through!

Second, I will pass on a discussion about suboxone, detox, benzos, taper, etc. because I am sure you will get plenty of opinions on those issues

BUT! There were a few things that popped right out to me upon reading your compelling post.  You said you have been to 5 countries, over 25 programs. You said you are currently in the longest stretch of recovery in your life, 21 months. You also said you want to get off Suboxone because it's harmful effects now outweigh it's benefits.

This is what comes to mind:

>How do you know that what you are experiencing is directly related to the Suboxone?

>You have never been this long without getting loaded in a very, very long time (you don't say exactly how long you were using). Have you considered that what you are assuming is the result of the Suboxone is actually the result of a person trying to cope with life on life's terms? Think about it! You are living life, with all of it's pain and angst and ebb and flow, without numbing yourself through the impulsive and compulsive use of opiates!  That is huge! I think this deserves some consideration. There may be other issues here that still need to be uncovered. "More shall be revealed"

As a person yourself in the field, you are aware that recovery comes in all shapes and sizes.  Have you heard the term "Harm Reduction"? If not, do a little reading on it. This philosophy basically says we should do whatever gets the person to the highest level of functioning and quality of life, even if total abstinence is not a part of it (this does not include abusing drugs, though). Of course, total abstinence is best.  But, in some cases, especially with a person who has been using for very long or is a chronic relapser, etc, there is the position that it is better for the person to stay on Suboxone, for example,  long- or longer-term than to get off, and to risk relapse (always measure the risk) and all the crises that would surely follow, including possible death (hey, let's not forget that this is a fatal disease, right?). Let me say that this is often a very unpopular position - especially in the US - though other countries see its wisdom.

OK, with that said, now I will ask you - why do you feel you cannot "spread your wings" unless you get off Suboxone? Is there a shame factor? Stigma of being on it? Especially because you are entering a field where this is perhaps unpopular? Or being part of a system that tells you that if you are still on Suboxone, that you are a failure? Please measure your motives carefully.

I am not advising you one way or the other. All I am asking is that you look at all sides. If you had any other chronic, progressive, and fatal disease, would you take the med if not taking it put you at great risk?

Also, nothing needs to be forever. All I am suggesting is that in the big scheme of things, you have not been in recovery all that long (compared with years and years of abuse and wreckage).  Is this the time to take the risk? Especially considering that this is a time of great transition for you:  fairly recent recovery, new relationship, finishing school, new career. Sometimes addicts want it all and they want it now, and in the rush, they lose the healthy respect for the power of this disease.

Have you discussed this with your support system, i.e. recovery sponsor and friends? Therapist, doctor, etc?

I believe this to be a crucial decision - one that could change the direction of your life if not done at the right time and properly monitored.

Just my 2 cents worth.

My prayers are with you, whatever you decide.

:)
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
good post above lots to think about!
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Thanks for your comments and learned commentary. Without sounding defensive I hope to explain to you the nature of my decision to get off suboxone. First of all everything that you said is appropriate and has been taken into consideration. I also completely agree with your take on harm reduction. I too champion it as a philosophy because not only does it save lives it also, in my opinion, helps people through the stages of change without having to suffer as much or be stigmatized to such a degree. Many parts of Europe have harm reduction programs far ahead of our country effectively proving that if you treat people like human beings they will respond accordingly on the other hand, if you stick them in jail and treat them like dirt, they will in turn treat others in a similar fashion. It is an immutable law of human nature as old as time itself. Unfortunately conservative factions and other fear based groups have long championed the eye for an eye philosophy and that as we all know leads to destruction as no one can ever deliver the last effective blow. In California this type of thinking has led to one inescapable result that most of our polititians seem to ignore. There are now more people locked away in jails in the state of California, for drug related crimes than there are in the rest of the world combined. With an estimated one in 10 people suffering from some manefestation of chemical dependency in this country, the 'war on drugs' is nothing more than a war against ourselves. Anyway I am more than sure where your sentiments lie after reading your response to my posting. You seem informed and I imagine that you are either a counselor of some sort yourself or heavily involved in a 12 step  fellowship. I have been on suboxone for three years and while it has certainly helped me to get where I am today through a harm reduction approach, it reached a point where it does more harm than good. I can't feel my feelings or I don't have the same intensity of feeling. This creates problems in a few areas. First, I don't invest of myself emotionally, where once I was outgoing and interested, suboxone dulls my curiosity and makes me feel dead inside. I don't look forward to life because suboxone has replaced my natural reward system that reinforces the things I like to do. Where I once was an avid reader, I now can't seem to connect to a book or a writer for that matter. When I play soccer the intensity is all halved and I don't nearly enjoy it as much. When I make love it dulls the feelings of love closeness that I cherish sharing with my fiancee and lately I generally stay home because I am not enthused about doing anything else. I know in my heart that I am ready and that I have used suboxone to its fullest and that is why I am so damn committed to my goal. I see so much potential just around the corner. I want to write books, songs, play in bands, and help other addicts to discover their muses as well. First I must reconnect with mine and kicking sub is the first step. I am keenly aware that my sensitive, playful, curious and self centered nature has gotten me into to trouble many times in my life and that I must tread lightly but with suboxone in my system, bliss eludes me. I have a doctor friend who seen me in my addiction and she uses logic in thinking better on suboxone than off but I beg to differ. If for some reason I can't hack a life completely sober, than suboxone may be my future but as long as I still have hope, I want to live to the fullest and reach my potential. On suboxone I would only be a shadow of what I could be. So tell me what you think and I will contnue to respond. Today I am struggling at 1.5mgs and last night I was so uncomfortable that I took an extra crumb of sub but I still kept under 2mgs. Anyway its progress not perfection and today I will really try to stay at 1.5. I had a little fight with my fiancee this morning but we patched it up before she left for work. As I detox it seems that she is becoming worried that I will change my mind about her or some other fear. I have to realize that this detox represents a big change for her as well and so far I am amazed at the patience and understanding I have been able to display despite my irritable condition. Thank you all out there for giving me a lifeline and a way to get stuff out of my mind in to a format where I can see whats happening. It makes so much difference!!!
I forgot to mention that I do feel some stigma attached to my sub use. While I was in the addiction studies program I let everybody know but in my AA meetings I have been less forthcoming. I am fearful of being judged as not sober even though my personal growth an acheivements prove otherwise. I have rationalized that AA is not the place for such disclosures but I am no longer so sure. What do you guys think?
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi again - funny thing just happened - while I was re-writing your name in the "TO" box, I reflected on your choice of names. Now, maybe I am just being analytical (surprise, surprise), but calling yourself a "suboxoneaddict" implies abuse of suboxone - not the person using suboxone as a tool to move forward in recovery. For example, one would not usually say "Zoloftaddict" or "Depakoteaddict" or "insulinaddict". This might parallel the stigma/shame thing I mentioned. Hmm...

Anyway, I definitely hear where you stand. I understand the desire to just want to move on and get past something. That's cool. However, you still haven't answered my main question, which was that I wanted to understand just how you know for sure that what you are experiencing is a result of the suboxone itself - and not the experience of a long time user who may have limited experience in life with long clean time + dealing with feelings + dealing with relationships + dealing with life. Also, have you had depression and, if so, has it been treated? I am trying to gain insight on this - I have not spoken to people on suboxone who have relayed this experience - so, I would like to explore it more.

Re: stigma/shame/AA Judgementalism/Rigidity?
I definitely feel the same on this aspect of AA.  I am wondering if this is a throwback to an earlier time when there weren't many pharmaceutical options for treatment adjunct. Then, there valium came on the market - ended up being a big drug of abuse. So, now when new treatments/pharmaceuticals come up, there is an immediate aversion to the idea. Perhaps this is born out of ignoranace? Fear that somehow this will change AA? I have found that there is a faction of old-timers in AA culture that still get crazy when "druggies" talk about drug use at meetings ("please limit your sharing to discussion of your problems related to your alcohol use"). So, when a person talks about suboxone or anti-depressant, there is this backlash. "Those darn druggies are takin' over". What many of them don't realize is the underlying disease concept and that the day of the "pure alcoholic" is fading. For many reasons, I'm sure. Sometimes there can be a thin line between therapeutics and unhealthy dependence on a treatment. That's a reason why having support when in recovery and being open-minded to what your well-functioning recovering associates have to say is so important. You know what they say: "left to our own devices..."

On the other hand, if something saves your life and you revere it, you are fierce about protecting it, which in AA translates into protecting the traditions - you don't want it to change or get watered down. That position is deeply embedded in the AA Traditions. And I do tend to agree that if AA had jumped on every bandwagon over the years, the Big Book would have been re-written a hundred times over by now! I love reading AA history literature - I find it absolutely fascinating!

Stay well. Let me know how you are doing.

:)
Blank
228936_tn?1249097848
I don't really believe that drugs really save a drug addicts life, except in rare cases. People and God do in my opinion. I am not against sub and think it's a great detox aid and good for longer periods for methadone addiction. I think some docs keep people on sub way too long and may do it to milk fees as another doc alluded to here on another sub thread. Some people hate me for saying this but I say it again, maybe better this time; We are drug oriented people and we often look for drug solutions to many problems including drug addiction. Drugs can help but they are usually not the answer or the savior. All the best
Blank
401095_tn?1351395370
Just want to offer my support...i have never taken suboxone but i do know i dont want to take anything that "controls" me.....I am not one that likes to be controlled and I completely understand why you would want to shed the sub....u sound like a very intelligent person who wants to live life to the fullest...life is so very short....enjoyed ur post
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
as to the "how do you know if what you experiencing  is the drug or not the drug"?? I don't think one will know until they are free from it and I completely support your decision to do so..and I agree with worried..I am not one that likes to be controlled either, especially by a drug that you have to take in order to function "normally". I think the biggest thing you have going for you in this fight is your resolve to do so...
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Has anyone ever used methadone to come off subutex/suboxone. i am chronic pain patient and my doc gave me strong opiod painkillers to come off it, but then I went back on it. Obviously for people who has an addiction problem with opiods, this is not the right way, but what about pain management. I have been on it for 10 months for fibro pain, but my pain is under control.
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I am of the belief that a person with a history of chemical use/abuse/addiction/other addictions/whatever AND a chronic pain issue would be doing themselves a HUGE SERVICE to work closely with a reputable addiction-aware pain specialist (certified pain specialist MD + ASAM certified would be ideal).

The stakes are too high to do this half-assed. Good luck.
Blank
511524_tn?1266353534
i havent been on it nearly as long as a lot of you but its all the same , this is my seventh month on suboxone and am finally starting to  decrease my dosing. I am now at 24 mgs. And plan on going down 8 mgs each month till im down to 8 then I go slower so there is as little discomfort as possible. I definitely have felt the withdrawals from lack of suboxone and they arent fun. Granite they arent as bad as heroin or oxy withdrawals, but they are similiar and last way way longer. I am nervous about that but I am glad to have my life back, have the will to live and just be happy with my life.good luck to everyone tapering and everyone can beat this disease, its a definite!
Blank
532932_tn?1213849716
Hi,

I would just like to ask if anyone here could help me to find any medical documentation pertaining to the process of transitioning a patient from Subutex to Buprenex.  I went through a "rapid detox" almost 3 years ago and immediately after I attempted a gradual taper from Buprenex over the next 3 months, but when that didn’t work, (I am a chronic pain patient as well) I was transitioned from Buprenex to Subutex.  Since then I’ve been on Subutex and am currently tapering from 32mg per day to 24mg per day.

Yes, I would like to get off this medication completely eventually, but the impetus for this decision to transition from Subutex to Buprenex is a financial one.  My insurance has never covered the costs Subutex and likely never will.  As a result, my monthly medication expense is around $1,000 per month for Subutex.  When I was earning a good income, I just toughed it out.  Yet, my job at a treatment facility as an out of state consultant was recently discontinued, which left me without an income to cover the cost of the Subutex.  

So, I decided to review my insurance coverage again to see if anything had changed in the last 3 years relative to their coverage of buprenorphine based medications and, to my disbelief, I discovered that they now cover Buprenex . . . and only Buprenex.  After asking all the appropriate questions of one of their Insurance Reps, it was confirmed that if I could successfully transition from Subutex to Buprenex, I could save approximately $990 per month!  Basically, I would just be required to pay a $9 copay and the copay for the syringes.

Although I once had a phobia of needles and still cannot even think of injecting myself without cringing, I did so successfully for 3 months after being discharged from inpatient care almost 3 years ago.  At that time, I was put on a Buprenex taper and had to administer those injections  2 - 3 times per day.  

So, needless to say, after this discovery, I immediately told my psychiatrist about what I had found and since he was very familiar with my current financial issues (and all the other issues I have!  ), he was willing to consider such a transition.  The problem is that neither of us can find any data, stats or other medical information regarding such a medication transition.  He found info regarding the absorption rates of sublingual subutex compared to that of injecting Buprenex, yet we couldn't even interpret that info because their absorption rates were represented so differently.  Absorption of subutex was represented in anagrams and the absorption of Buprenex was represented in milligrams.  The only thing we know for certain is that very little buprenorphine is absorbed when taken sublingually and a great deal of buprenorphine is absorbed when injected.  And, to further complicate things, subutex when administered sublingually remains effective for up to 37 hours, whereas Buprenex when injected only lasts approximately 7 hours . . . per the data he reviewed.

So, without the medical documentation to guide us through such a transition my psychiatrist is not eager to turn me into a “guinea pig” or to possibly subject me to terrible withdrawal symptoms considering how well I’ve been doing.  And, this of course, is why I am here and asking if you might have seen or heard of any references to such a transition.  Everyone that has posted or commented on this thread seems very knowledgeable about the medications discussed, so I thought it might be worth a try.

And, before I go I just want to acknowledge the courage and support I've witnessed reading your posts.  Its so nice to "hear" such positive and helpful conversations pertaining to a subject that, when typically discussed, is reduced to a self-promotion (i.e., I know more or I know what is right for others) or self-defeating (i.e., I’m just a victim of society, family, etc. or I’ve had it worse than anyone else, etc.) dysfunctional banter.  So, thank you for the pleasant and informative dialogue.  And, more importantly, I pray that you all experience continued success in your mission to attain and sustain the balanced, productive and positive life your working towards and that you successfully overcome any obstacles that might get in your way!      
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
If the pills are large and oval they are 8mg tablets, if they are oval, very thin & small they are the 2mg tablets.  I have been on both the 2mg white subutex pills and the 8mg white subutex.  It was much easier for me to take the 2mg pills sublingually, BUT it was much cheaper to purchase the 8mgs, so I split them in half.  I have been on for about 3 years, I really hope that I have the strength & courage to taper someday...
Blank
434480_tn?1242659346
good luck. well you dont need it. congrads becuz you know what you want to do and that is be free of subox. i am 8 days w/out sub but not completely every third day i get tired and achy legs so i take  a small peace of sub and it helps. within a month i know i will be feelign better.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Wow, I had no idea that this stuff could cause so many problems. A friend of mine in AA was telling me that it was best thing since sliced bread and it wasn't addicting etc.....
Recently I went thru tx for hepatitis c and let me tell that ain't no ride in the park. Lots of pain. So my md wrote for pain meds and now I am addicted. This weekend I want to detox with the subutex. But after reading all this it will only be on it for a short time a couple of weeks maybe. I hate being addicted. I've been in recovery from herion over 11 1/2years. I am not going to let this stuff send me back to that.....Thanks for the info and may God be with you.......
Red
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
I noticed that the original author of this thread "suboxonaddict" was over 5 weeks ago.  Wonder what became of this person??  How is their recovery going? Are you there Suboxonaddict?  Clearly we are all interested in your progress...please pipe in.  

One thing that I want to comment on that was brought up in this thread is the topic of AA meetings and judgmentalism.  Whoa...this hits a real home run for me because I have had a personal struggle with being in AA due to issues just like this...so much judgment.  I am in recovery (for 18 months now) from coccaine and alcohol.  But because I am Bipolar (a truly frowned upon topic in AA), I do take other necessary meds.  I never reveal what meds I am on at AA mtgs.  I made the mistake early in my recovering of revealing to many details when I was "sharing" in a meeting...they ate me up like sharks.  I walked out of that meeting and almost never went back to any AA mtg.  I'm really turned off by the program actually, but there are very few NA mtgs where I live...almost none.  I'm cross-addicted, yet the drug addiction is not permissable.  I became so turned off by the lack of acceptance that I've basically stopped going to AA.  It became more of a drain to me rather than what it should be, which is rebuilding and fortifying of my nature and inner strength.  It's rather sad because the originators of AA never wished for people to be judged, yet it is a reality that has made me feel alone in my struggle with addiction.  I'm sooooo grateful for this forum...finally, I feel it's okay to be me.
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
I m on subs for the first day what  can I expect
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
I suggest that you post this question to the forum in a new thread.  Most people will not see your question because you asked question in a "response".  Start with a new posted question and you will stand a much better chance of getting great response from others.  Your question is too important to get lost...
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
From my brief experience, if you start at the right dosage, it will feel miraculous. I don't know what you're coming off of, but I was on vicodin. After a couple days i learned all i needed was about 4mg daily. I cut down to 2mg shortly thereafter. I learned that suboxone has two of the same side effects as vicodin, namely constipation and low libido (sex drive). I took my last dosage last saturday and have been very fatigued and lethargic since then, and today I got some of the the classic opioid withdrawals (diarrhea, stomach cramps, runny nose). I understand it will take a while to get back to normal, but I believe the drug has helped me.
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
Hello. I have been on suboxone for about two years. I am female, 34 years old. About 1/3 of my life i have been addicted to some form of opiate. Yes i have detoxed from opiates and its a *****. But today I am different. I am not high and im not worried and ill tell u why.....If i wasn't on suboxone , would i be trying to take those vicodin my husband got from his dentist? You betcha. Being on suboxone has offered me a life without being high. For me....I need this stuff. Now have i felt that my time is up with this drug? Yes, i do often. But all i have to do is think of how awful it was that i wasnt present for my son when i was high on some sort of self medicating poison_ opiates. This stuff has saved my life. i take 2mg 3 xs a day...if i even remember. sometimes i get away with not taking it to...its weird. Ready2help...i totally understood your postings and also want to know where "suboxoneaddict" is
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
Hi i totally support you in your action and god be with you-  and i also started my detox from Subutex - i been taking it for the last 4 years i usally take 8 mg per day and now i started to feel its an evil its destroying my life- i'm panic from withdrawal - 2 stories here one says stop all now and face hard 2 weeks OR reduce it every 6 days till you reach 1 mg per day- for me I believe i cant stop it all at once as i cant offer to have a vacation for 2 weeks specially during such hard period in economy- i cant offer to lose my job - i will start today to reduce from 8 mg to 6 mg for 4 or 5 days and then go to 4 mg and so on- what i will hate to face is after stopping and making love it will not take me a second to c?? and i hate this feeling- but i have to face it as either i enjoy my sex life or enjoy my full life- I'm with you and supporting you and will log every day to tell you whats going on- but you have to drink lots of fluids,  take lot of hot water showers (very hot water) as it expadite the detox and eat well-
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
hi i'm worried as I'm on subutex for about 4 years but never take more than 8 mg per day some are saying its can be a life time- but as I'm worried person myself i always under the impression that this can kill me any time- i decided to reduce my intake to 6mg for 4 or 5 days and then go to 4 and so on- i need some one to courage me as i cant open such matter to any one and i will have to share this experince all alone and its freaking me as well- i'm just adding this comment as i need to talk to some1-
Blank
Avatar_n_tn
Hi,
  First of all, suboxone, (or subutex,) will not kill you if you are taking it in the way you have described.  There are some people who may have an allergic reaction to it, but that is VERY rare, and it would happen right away.  You are not in any danger of dying from sub.  If you want to come off of it, though, just make absolutely sure that you are in a stble enough place mentally, physically, and life wise, (your outlook can really be everything with things like this, I've found,) and know that the detox will not be pleasant.
  I am in a very similar position.
  I've been taking suboxone for more than two years now.  I've made the decision to come off of it this summer, before the fall semester begins.  I'm currently taking about 4 mg a day, and sloooowwwly dropping.  I've read, (and heard from people I know that have done it,) that it can be a very, very tough detox, depending on the length of time you've been on it, your dose when jumping off, and the way you taper down to it.  I'm just trying to develop my resolve, and tell myself i've been through detoxes many times before, and that it will be worth it.  My life and my perspective, and everything else is so different now than it was when I was using H, I know I'm ready to do this, and circumstances demand  that I must...
  I hope the original author of this post is out there somewhere, clean, happy and doing fine, (whether on or off the sub!) and I wish midodasdas and anyone else that is going to be coming off suboxone good luck and support!  I know it is doable, and if you feel, (as I do,) that the time has come to get off of it, and you feel strong enough to do it, go for it, just don't be scared to admit defeat, and go back on the sub before you relapse.  It is far, FAR better for you than street drugs.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
Hey everyone,
     i was going to a methadone clinic for around 3 years taking 50mg doses a day. i was finally fed up with paying those prices and decided to switch to suboxone and detox. I started at 16 miligrams of suboxone and that was plenty to supress my withdraws. Before the methadone, i was snorting 3 to 5 oxycontin 80's a day. My point being, i think 16 mg's of suboxone or maybe 24mg's is enough to take care of most any addiction. some people may be different but do realize that there is alot of mental asspect of addition and if you just keep your mind off of it and stay busy with hobbies, work and such it will be easier. I've been on suboxone for 14 months now and i think i dragged it out too long. I am currently on 1mg a day and to be honest i havent felt much w/d at all. I took pretty big jumps at the begining until i got to about 4mg. I went down 1mg a month. Now i wake up and take my one mg and feel fine. At around 9 or 10p.m i start to feel a little sick. chills up my back, lots of yawning, wattery eyes and a very short temper. but by then, i just take a few mg's of melatonin (over the counter "healthy" sleep aid) and try to sleep. i do feel awful in the mornings. it's so hard to get out of bed, let alone get moving for the day. but once i get my 1mg in me i do feel lots better. next, i'm going to take my 1mg every other day, then every 3 days and so on. I do disagree with taking benzo's for opiate w/d because of the fact that they are just as addictive. I think there is alot of "mental" withdraw that comes about when you clog your system with all kinds of stuff hoping to feel a little bit better. Do it the healthy way. Stay busy!!! i cant stress that enough. exercise alot!! keep your endorphine's up. keep hydrated. you'll burn off that w/d in no time. WE ALL CAN DO THIS! and for those that can't sleep at night, look into that melatonin. it is a great healthy alternative for a sleep aid. Good luck everyone!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
i have been taking suboxone for about two years and was forced to quit taking them without being weened off when the doctor i had been seeing was shut down. it has been five days and i am very uncomfortable and aggetated but ready to get this over. i had no idea that i would detox like this or i would have been a little more careful with it i have taken them in the past for short periods and never had a problem with wds .can tell me how long till the worst is over i cant sleep but i cant get up, i have fever, my stomach hurts and i am so uncomfortable i know they helped me detox from ox.but damnit
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Please help me iv done oxy roxy and so forth since 2006 and iv been takkng a quarter of suboxin for almost a year. I want to quit but I'm scared of the detox does any one no how long it takes to get over the detox.
Blank
1801781_tn?1373244154
This is am old thread.  Go up to the top of this page...click on the orange ask a question button and cut you paste your question/need.  You will start a new thread that should get you some help.  I don't want you to be missed.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
jealous. if only we had your mind control
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
Hi. I am not the person you responded to but the answer to your question is....every addict is different. You were addicted to hydrocodone. Trust me when I tell you that the difference between detoxing from hydorcodone and (my drug of choice) blask tar heroin is like night and day. I am not saying that our addiction is any different but I when I was hooked on just pain pills, I could easily detox by myself. I have been on Methadone and was in the hospital for 45 days. Every single day was HELL! I have been on Suboxone for 3 years now and I am now tapering. Some people just need more time....just depends on whether or not a person is having cravings. I cannot understand why the doctor would put someone who is addicted to hydrocodone on Suboxone. The withdrawals from Suboxone are way worse than hydrocodone. I wish you much luck in your recovery and I hope that you don't take my words as a bad thing. God bless you :)
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I too have withdrawed from Methadone and had to be hospitalized for 45 days. I am on Suboxone now and have been for over 3 years. I feel so dumb for even starting back after going through all that but I guess that is just part of recovery. You are right on point...Methadone is the worst!!!!!!!!!!! The withdrawals are way more intense than ANYTHING ELSE and they last a VERY LONG TIME. I would never recommend Methadone to anyone but Suboxone has saved my life. I am tapering off of Sub now and I am really scared. I have detoxed on my own from taking 10 oxycontin and also 20-25 bags of black tar heroin and Methadone definitely takes the cake. What a nightmare!!!!!!!! God bless you!
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
You make  whatever decision that you feel is right for you. I have been on Suboxone for over 3 years and have just started to taper off and I am terrified. Your posts have helped me a great deal and I wish you all the luck in the world. I also feel uncomfortable telling my sponsor and people at my meetings that I am on Sub....I have overheard some say that using Sub is not being "clean". Suboxone and God have saved my life. Thank you and hope your life is blessed....
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
To your girlfriend , " It has nothing to do with you. Withdrawal is hell! I myself,as your bf, prefer to suffer alone, and that's what it is it is pure unadulterated suffering. It's not only extremely physically challenging, it's also mentally and emotionally painful. It has nothing to do with you. Pain is a personal experience, and some not only want , but need to be alone to get through it. I myself am detoxing , and took a hard fall last night ( I think I broke my ribs ) my bf came running to help and in my mind I wanted to say, " go, let me suffer without you seeing, there's nothing you can do " but I took his feelings into consideration,and let him watch and help , and for whatever reason it made me more aware of the pain. We are all different. Some find others being around soothing. Your bf doesn't . That's all relax. Ps..good luck to you both. This is challenging.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
My son has been on sub 4 1/2 years (2mg day).  Last week he stopped cold turkey not thinking the w/d would be so terrible........Yesterday his Dr. prescribed him lorazepam 1 mg every 8 hours and a blood pressure med.  
I'm fearful he will become addicted to the Loraz ........... does anyone have any knowledge, first hand experience?  Worried Mom
Blank
Avatar_f_tn
I have been on a fairly low dose in comparison to many of the people on here. I too fear the withdraws I am taking about 1-1 and a half now and have been for about 6-8 months. I'm afraid to stop because I live alone and have no family to help me through it. I lied to my friends, telling them I have stopped taking everything because I'm ashamed of the addiction. I understand your fears.
I am currently on what the Dr. called "maintenance" I am taking an 8/2 and cutting it into very thin strips. She is allowing me 8 strips a month. So I make it last.
I don't know what it even feels like to be completely sober. I took Lortab and then Norco for about 15 years. My physician was terminated and I was unable to find a Dr. that would write the Norco Prescription like he did, 80 Mg per day.
I wish I had the courage to completely stop everything. The other problem I have is when I do stop, I still have the pain that I was being treated for in the first place.
Just so you all know, this has damaged my liver and will continue to until I decide it's enough. Do we decide quality of life, or life itself?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
how are you doing now it has ben a 30 days






Blank
Avatar_m_tn
how are you doing now its been 30 some days ?
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
One way to detox might be the Waismann Method.
Blank
6484018_tn?1381723861
Hello my friend. I'm in it to win it with you. I would recommend shooting for a lower dose than 2mg to detox from. I am currently at 1mg pd (0.5 2x daily once when I wake and the second about two hours before bed. I want to inform you that no matter what benzo you decide to go with, becoming dependant is a risk no matter which benzo you have already been taking. switching benzos to try and not get a dependency is the same as switching from heroin to oxycodone to not get dependent. There is no way to whole this. I have been taking klonopin since I was 13 and today I am 23. After ten years you learn that taking an ativan, a valium, a xanax, a ristoril(temazepam, ect. will keep you from having seizures Just like a klonopin would. So with that noted I would use the one that has the best benefits . I personally advise getting both a long acting anxiety prevention benzo. like klonopin and also an acute panic attack benzo for when you're losing any faith to throw on top. Temazepam also works great to get you to sleep if you can get some flexaril or skelaxin possibly even soma to relax your legs and then throw in the benzo to knock you out. Get some clonodine too for sure. it helps keep you asleep at night also plus your brain is telling your beaten heart to pump like you're dying almost because its trying to fix the illness you are suffering with brand new strategies that don't work. since the drugs have caused all your natural healing and repairing organic mechanisms to shrivel up and die, you can't do anything but medicate yourself. Your blood pressure will be through the ******* roof and clonodine is key here. I know personally the two worst parts of PAWS (post acute withdrawal symptoms) are the most important you deal with in order to make it. Number one you must surrender and make a commitment to yourself that you will no longer let this drug hold you back anymore. I missed a two week tree vacation to the outer banks OBX in NC this summer because I didn't have enough money to buy enough of my script to leave and not suffer down there. We don't deserve this ball and chain we have attached to our legs. Put it in writing that you will not make any more excuses, and that this kick is the last. You WILL NOT TAKE THIS SUB EVER AGAIN. surrendering is so important. second. chills... goosebumps, whatever you call them. they are the worst. with suboxone s w/d they last for weeks. take ammodium for that. you're getting chills from fever and also your digestive system speeding up so quickly. like getting a chill while taking a **** its the same concept. slow down your metabolism and lower the.fever with ibuprofen and the chills will be much less intense. Throw in vistaril if you can get it also ire an antihistamine. so use benadryl instead if you can't. 100mg doses as needed. my phone is about to die and.I want to post before it does. I can help you and you can help me. please stay on touch and hang strong. -Gabriel
Blank
271792_tn?1334983257
Hi gbrand and welcome. this post is five years old and the original poster is no longer active. Please start your own post so we can get to know you and support you. If you need any help please ask.
Blank
Avatar_m_tn
I have to disagree with your theory: My son has been on Suboxone maintenance for 7 years; transferred over from Methadone.  He validates everything suboxoneaddict says about the profound personality and mood changes that result over time with suboxone use.  In addition, it depletes testosterone, which has tremendous ramifications. To supplement with testosterone also has long term effects, and the individual runs the risk of never being able to produce his own testosterone again, post addiction. There is loss of interest in anything, altered glucose metabolism and insulin resistance, loss of emotion, loss of personality, loss of creativity and loss of socialization - there is a retreat into self and development of reclusiveness.At one time, the Suboxone saved his life - now, it is destroying it.  His profound personality changes destroyed his marriage; destroyed his ability to feel for her. His despondency and despair over ever being able to get past this are devestating to him; at the age of 33, I fear every day that his life will finally be too painful to continue living.  It is a horrible trap, this prolonged suboxone use.  
Blank
Post a Comment
To
Blank
Weight Tracker
Weight Tracker
Start Tracking Now
Addiction: Substance Abuse Community Resources
RSS Expert Activity
233488_tn?1310696703
Blank
New Cannabis Article from NORTH Mag...
Jul 20 by John C Hagan III, MD, FACS, FAAOBlank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
3 Reasons Why You are Still Binge E...
Jul 14 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
242532_tn?1269553979
Blank
Emotional Eating: What Your Closet ...
Jul 09 by Roger Gould, M.D.Blank
Top Addiction Answerers
352798_tn?1399301754
Blank
GoingToMakeIt
Near Seattle, WA
3197167_tn?1348972206
Blank
clean_in_ks
KS
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
weaver71
Other
4113881_tn?1401895587
Blank
ActingBrandNew
Torrance, CA
Avatar_m_tn
Blank
gnarly_1
phoenix, AZ
6942344_tn?1407485574
Blank
Amandag78
Perth, Australia