I'm desperate for advice from those in recovery

[Michelle41NJ]

Hi, I'm Michelle, 41 years old and pregnant with a addicts baby.  It's a very long, complicated story but bottom line is someone took advantage of my mind, body, soul, bank account, and trust.  I know deep down inside he has a good heart, however, he is ruled by the abuse he's suffered from childhood and life in general.  It breaks my heart.. He was someone I would never date or have a relationship because I knew our lives would never mesh.  I was staying with him while I recovered from neck fusion and he took advantage of the situation while I was medicated.. So, I can't tell you what a surprise it was to find out I was pregnant when to my knowledge I had not been intimate with anyone in over a year.  Seems he didn't realize I wasnt aware of what was going on.. hmmmmmmmmmmmm Anyway.. so here I am pregnant.. and what was I to do?  I figured the only chance he had was for me to step in and kick him in his *** and try to get him on the road to recovery.  

His background :  started drinking in high school, acted out horribly due to physical and emotional abuse of his father.  At age 21 he found cocaine.  He had a love affair with that drug until May 31, 2008.  He is now 37 and spent all those years using and abusing.  He and his ex wife.. well there whole relationship was based on getting high and drinking.. they had no real relationship.. I do remember him telling me that he never wanted that again.. that kind of gig where only drugs are the common bond.  He hasnt had a valid drivers license for 18 years, was in jail for a minor offense, arrested 30 times.  He is a pathological liar.  Lied to me about the drugs, and so many other things.  But one thing has always rang true with him, his desire to have a stable, normal family.  Since he found out I was pregnant he stopped everything.. was seeing a therapist, goes to AA meetings 3-4 times a week. He just go his drivers license back today, stopped smoking, and will go to parenting classes.. HOWEVER I know addicts will say anything to get what they want, and he wants me.  

My question is:  Can people change? Is it insane for me to try to help him.  I put up with zero BS.  He broke ties with old friends, turned in he dealers... he is kept on a very short lease, my hope is he will learn to love his new life that the consequences of losing it will help keep him sober.  I just don't know if someone with that long history is change possible... he is like a child, doesnt know how to have a relationship at all.  I was married for 20 years.. I have normal, well balanced kids.. blows my mind he and his ex wife did drugs and drank during her pregnancy... I know I can go to alanon meetings but I'm stuck in bed till the baby come due to being so high risk.. Thank you for taking time to read this and give me your input..

Peace, Love and Happiness..
Michelle

[road2recovery]

GEEZ LOUISE---LIS--- Girl u crack me up!!  LOL

Michelle---  you sound like a smart girl...I pray everything works out no matter with or without him..Take care of the BEAUTIFULL BABY!!!!
hugs
r2r

[imanaddict]

First off, congratulations on the new baby!! Secondly, change is always possible if HE wants it, not you. It sounds as if he is on the right road and hopefully it will stay that way for good this time. Relapse is, of course,  a possibility but keep encouraging him for his change. If he has a good support system around him he has a better chance of staying sober. Good luck to all of you!

[Cupp78]

I don't see how you can come on here and say, definitively that she is co-dependent, should just drop him, and what she is doing is crazy.  You hear what you want to hear in her words and your reactions to the situation is filtered through your prism of experience.  Maybe the guy is changing for himself.  He has been clean a hell of a lot longer than I have.  Goes to meetings, and generally does all the things that an addict in recovery MUST do to maintain theri sobriety.  Maybe he needs someone who would take the time to say i care about you and there are better things for you if you make the effort to change your life.  I am glad my wife didn't just leave when I relapsed (multiple times), glad she didn't throw her hands up and run off with my son.  Everyone needs to hit a bottom at some point, and maybe this guy has found his bottom and his light to lead him out in the same person.  I commend you for having the courage to tell him the truth, but give him a chance to PROVE that he has changed.  If you read the post, she doesn't live with him, doesn't see him (rarely), and isn't there everyday telling him to change.  It seems she has set boundaries and made demands that if he wants to be involved in the child's life (Not be her significant other) then he has to change.  Maybe he wants to be the Dad that he didn't have.  People can change, but they have to find themselves in the right circumstancews to jar them to the realization that they can't keep going on the way they have been.  What is so wrong with giving him a chance...if he fails, then at least it's by his doing and not hers.

[sweetgwen]

You will NEVER have a "normal" healthy life with this man..nor will the child who will soon be in the picture,,and what about your grown children..You need to worry about giving yourself and the baby (the one you are carrying) a chance ..not him. Where are the people in your life ...? they must think this is crazy. If you have had a fairly normal life until now ...consider yourself lucky..and get this guy GONE NOW>!! I have been taken advantage of many times cuz "it breaks my heart" to see someone suffer...only to have them hurt me over and over. Dont make the same mistake. Good Luck...

[SHELLBELL79]

By the way Co dependancy means you are putting someone elses problems, life. etc,  before yours! Like how your on here defending him and making exuses for him, when he is the guy that raped you and took avantage of you! Im sorry but, somethings wrong there!

[SHELLBELL79]

Michelle please re-read what you wrote! You are making excuses for him big time, especially for the rape. I don't care if anyone has never seem you on medication. He knew what he was doing. Im sorry but, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR RAPE! If you were happily married for 20 years , then why did you get a divorce?  I know , I know you are very pregnant right now and I very hormonal. You need to understand that you are very co-dependant and he is obviously changing for the the wrong reasons. He needs to for himself without your help! Anyway, only you can realize what he's done and what you need to do! You obviously like many women coming on here want to validate that they can fix a bf or their friend, etc.  We are going to tell you the best advice we can give you! Were not going to lie to you and only tell you what you want to hear! We are here for you! We just hope you make the right decision! God bless! I am praying for you and your baby! Good luck!
Michelle

[laurel453]

guau, and it's not because of my english this time  but i do not understand a thing.

only wish you luck with whatever you decide, michelle, buena suerte  

[Michelle41NJ]

Ahhhhhhhh Lisa.. it's ok.. LOL I'm 41.. the day I let what strangers think or say about me effect who I am I'll jump off the bridge. I've learned that those who are so quick to judge are most unhappy with themselves.  I have received a ton of wonderful email on here.  I don't expect everyone to understand, nor quite frankly do I care.  It's just redundant that I re write the same things over and over.. that what I say is missed or just not understood. but thanks again, from the bottom of my heart.  What you give of yourself is truly a gift..

Peace, Love & Happiness..

Michelle

[liscamdave]

Geez louise...this poor girl is probably not to thrilled she came here for advice...

Michelle, only you can make that desicion...I hope things work out for you in the long run....

Lisa

[tramaddi]

I forget was there a question here or something? or are u simply trying to justify or receive accolates for being the savior.  Whatever makes u happy I suppose, personally I wouldn't waste my time baby or not.

[Michelle41NJ]

And if you re read.. I was not on the same medication.. for my neck it was dulliudae and adavain for my gastric by pass, where I was much sicker it was Oxyfast...

[Michelle41NJ]

I had gastric bypass in 2000.  I almost died.. I went down to 75 pounds.. When the surgery was done the dr. pinched my vegas nerve so everything I ate and drank was vomited... the only way I could eat a bite was being medicated.  After 2 years of being in the hospital on and off, losing my gall bladder and 2 bowl obstruction surgeries, I had my gastric by pass reversed and went off of all medication.

March 21, 2008, I had my cervical neck fused.. During my recovery from that I developed a staff infection.. I was very ill.. I found out I was pregnant after I had stopped my medication however, I would say there was 2 weeks I was pregnant and medicated..

They are two different events in my life..

Should have just asked.. it's not all that interesteing

[owhatamistake]

I'm not a Dr. or a psychotherapist, but my gut tells me something is off here....way off.  Just because you have the resume that you have doesn't necessarily mean that you are as clean as the driven snow.  You say here that you were on a lot of medication for 5 weeks...in another post on another thread you said you were on this same heavy medication for 2 years.  

I'm sorry and with all due respect....the story, several parts of it, just don't add up.

I won't attempt to tell you anything as you seem to have all the answers.  However, I will wish you the very best and hope things work out well....for you, your baby and the baby's father.  

[Michelle41NJ]

(sigh) Ok, I know I wrote alot so I'm sure this was just missed but here I go again:

1. HE is in therapy
2. He has a sponsor
3. He goes to meetings 3-5 times a week
4. He cut ties to all old friends
5. He's changed his phone number
6. He "cleaned his house"
7. Hes going to parenting classes
8. Hes working at making amends


Rape:  I was taking 2 mg of Adavian and 3 mg of dulladid every 2-3 hours after my fusion.  He had never seen me on medication.  I'm out of it, but it's very hard to detect.  He was and is ashamed of what happened.  It's not like I was drunk and out of it... I am not making excuses, I'm stating the facts.  I had a ton of medication in my system for 5 weeks.  

As for me:  Again, I have been in therapy since I was 17.  I do not seek unhealthy relationships, I was happily married for 20 years.  I've dated some wonderful people.  As I stated, when I met Rob, it was as a friend, I never considered him someone I would date due to his insane life.  However, I felt bad for him, and with my background I knew I could make a difference.  He was never shown another way.. he was stuck in victim mentality.  And you know the rest from there.  If it makes people more comfortable to call it co dependency so be it.. I'll wear that title.. LOL.. if it means that all the people in my life who's life I've made a difference .. so be it.  I was a case worker in the field of domestic violence.  I was director of a sexual trauma after care program.  I've never followed the rules.. Non profit has been my life, and my passion.. I consider my event filled life as a means of God giving me tools to be more emphatic to others, and see things a little different.  I have mentored women in business, and been a advocate for victims rights.  My being a product of sexual abuse will never change, HOWEVER, it's my CHOICE to not let that abuse rule my life.. to react to it.. because if I do that, I'm letting the abuse continue each and every day.. why the hell would I want to give someone that kind of power over me? and my life?  Someone gave me a chance once.. and thats what I'm giving him.. a chance.. what he does with it is up to him...

I for sure did not think anyone was trying to be mean.. not for a moment.. it's very hard to explain the total picture via the internet.. and I'm very tired, trying to hold this baby inside of me.   However:

1. I never ever ever ever ever ever once said marriage.. i didnt even think it.. lol.. that is NOT A OPTION on the table.. what he is working with right now is being a part of parenting this baby.. thats it.  I do not trust him, he does have to prove himself.. He hurt me very very much and that pain just doesnt go away.  I am not leading him on.. I tell him how I feel daily.  You cannot enter into a relationship that is unbalanced and lack of respect on one end.  I have no respect for him, and he knows that, and it's really sad.. but I see baby steps.. things most people wouldnt notice.. thats all you can hope for.. but I agree, I could nor would ever have a relationship that is unbalanced.  

As for his marriage and why I said we do not have the same issues here is why.. the number one reason is I don't have sex for drugs.. that was a big issue with his marriage and his ex wife.  I'm not sneaky, and I don't lie.  I have to power to react or not to what goes on in my life.. I don't fight, I walk away.. period.. and don't look back.  

I did kick his butt into recovery, however I cannot be the reason he stays, as I stated before.  I'm doing this for my baby.. I would kick, scream and push to get him in the door.. now, weather or not he stays and gets with the program is up to him..

There seems to be two very different schools of thought on what I've done for him.  But at the end of the day, I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror.. I know I've done everything in my power to get him on the right track.. that's all anyone can do.  I don't believe in "rules" people are individuals and we all have different stories.   I never in my life thought I would be on this side of things, but I know in the end, I will be a better person for going through this, it's my personal belief that through great pain comes the opportunity for even greater growth.  It's our choice on what we do with the cards we are dealt.  I chose to thrive than to merely survive.  

[LIZZIE LOU]

i'm gonna jump in here as someone from the other side of the fence.  i am not an addict but the mother of three of them.

you CANNOT love him sober.  you CANNOT do this for him.  an addict is an addict is an addict...and they have to take responsiblity for their sobriety.  you can make all the demands you want...tell him when to eat, when to sleep, what the think...but HE has to be the one who does this.  sounds to me like he is basically living like someone who is in rehab...a CONTROLLED environment.  what happens when he has to think for himself?

dont get me wrong...i think it is an admirable thing that you are doing...how you want to "change" him...help him.  i just think you need to back off some and let him be the responsible party here.  all i am reading is what YOU are making him do.  HE has to do this or IN THE LONG RUN...it will never work!!!

[carr]

RELAPSE IS NOT A PART OF RECOVERY!!!!! OMG...THATS AN EXCUSE TO USE AGAIN....DONT DELUDE YOURSELF.!!!!

[SHELLBELL79]

Oh my! I feel for you big time Michelle! My name is Michelle too!  I was in a relationship with an alcholic for 6 years. I was CO-DEPENDANT! You are and the father of your future child are co-dependant. Please tell me why? why? are you in this guy's life in the first place?? Why isn't he in jail for raping you? That just kills me, how you made an exuse for him raping you and taking avantage of you! You may be a strong person and have been througha lot and say you don't put up with his ****,etc. But, you do. I think and know that you need to take care of YOU and this precious baby. This guy may be sober and trying to get his life straight. You should only get sober for yourself ! Not for a baby, love, etc. That is secondary! You can not love or take care of anyone else, unless you love and take care of you first! This guy need serious long -term inpatient therapy and medical care. If he wants to have any kind of real sobriety on his belt he is going to want to work through all his trauma he had in life and learn how to deal with it naturally and healthy. I have been through trauma and hell with my father and a toxic relationship. I remember going to his meetings with him for "Support" and people who didn't even know me saying," you know your co -dependant"! I was like NO I AM NOT! It took a while but, it was like an awakening, sayingto myself, "Michelle you are so co-dependant! When I admitted it to myself I felt a weight off my chest and knew I was like this b/c of my abusive father. I have been in therapy about my father and the hell Ive been through since I was 17. I was told by a therapist I will look for guys like my father or guys that are not good for me. Boy, was the therapist correct. I am 29 and still need a ton of therapy. I know now what red flags to look for in men. I don't know why I attract them but when I get the smallest red flag, Im out. I know no one might not be there for him but, you. But, he is not your responsiblilty to be that one. He needs guidance,care, and therapy from a medical professional. You definatly need therapy for what you went through with him and your passed. Just to let you know a fact...women who were sexually asulted or abused have almost a 100% chance of becoming some kind of addict. You need to think about you and not think and worry about him! I am not a doctor but, I grew up with an abusive father, un healthy relationships, and I am In psychology and social work. I am an intern in social work and take care of the mentally ill and drug addicts,etc. Listen to everyones good advice on here! This is a great place! Good luck with everything! I am praying for you and your baby!
Michelle

[nuredshuz]

Michelle, Im not trying in any way to be mean to you at all, just hoping you'll give what you are getting involved with some thought.

First of all you have said he wont continue his past behavior because YOUR not a drug addict.  His behavior has absolutely nothing to do with you! His behavior has everything to do with him.  HE needs to get some counseling to help him understand why his marriage was a disaster. How he played a part in it. How he can improve his relationship skills so that he does not repeat the mistakes he made in the prior relationship. Addiction is a symptom of deeper issues of the heart and mind. Just because we stop the symptoms doesnt mean we resolved the issues.  Unresolved issues WILL come out in other ways if all we do is stop the behavior! As the person who will inherit this baggage, dont you want him to have some peace and reconciliation in his heart before you jump into marriage?

Second, the reason that I said you think your better than him is cuz of the tone in the post. You seem to think hes an idiot. I duno why you would want to marry someone who you have a low opinion of?!? Im sure that you have good reasons to feel that way. But all im trying to do is help you to think about this a little deeper.Marriage is hard when the people are madly in love and cant keep their hands off of each other!!I Its gona be really difficult to make it work when you are starting off with problems and resentments!  

Third, you said you are "making" him do the work, you said you moved out and only "let" him visit you twice. Its just looking like your trying to fix the guy and control his recovery. I could be wrong, maybe I am. Im only some chick on the internet thats lived thru hard times trying to help you see even though your looking!! Hear even though your ears are working!

It would behoove (sp) you to at least look up some information on co-dependancy. With the childhood you describe and your involvement with someone you think you can "fix", it can not hurt you to at least read up on it before you make a decision that is going to effect the rest of your life and the rest of your children's lives!!

Im glad hes clean and showing improvement and doing his recovery. Thats awesome and YES people do change! But im not talking about him; Im talking about YOU!!

Good luck and I hope you have peace in what ever you decide~~

[Cupp78]

Hi Michelle,

You sound so much like my wife.  She is that rock who sees everything in basic black and white, right and wrong; very simplistic and honest.  She doesn't know her father and had several step-dads who used crack with her mom and they would drop them off at the "babysitters" house for weeks at a time while they went on a binge.  Had her prom dress and car stolen by her mom and sold for crack and moved out of the house at 15.  She is so amazing...she joined the Air Force to get away and that is where we met.  She chose the right path and somehow I, though I had no cake walk I had a much easier life than her, chose the wrong one. Can people change?  God I hope so.  I have been clean for 41 days now and I have the truest intentions in my heart to not go back to that life.  We have been married for 7 years and have a beautiful 17 month old son and I don't want to have him grow up and see me drunk and drugging like I saw my dad.  I have to stop that cycle.  I don't know if I will stay clean forever, but I know that the demon is cunning and trying everyday to take that place in my life that it used to have.  I try everyday to stop it, and so far have been successful.  I hope it continues.  It sounds like he has taken some pretty amazing steps in just a short time to do the right thing.  Maybe your realistic perspective on life, love, and relationships is the wake up call he needs.  I know I will be praying for him and you b/c I know how he is probably feeling...wanting so bad to do the right thing, but fighting that ache inside everyday to go back to the old ways...especially when life throws a bad day our way.  it isn't easy but I see people in NA each week that have been clean for nearly 20 years, so I know it is possible, it just take an honest effort, EVERY day.  Complacency will open the door to our addiction.  You also said that you hope he will be sober for him.  In my opinion, there is no way he would be clean for as long as he has if he wasn't doing it for him.  An addict will never stay clean until their desire to be clean is stronger than the desire to use, no matter how much a significant other or family memeber wants it for them.

Good luck and God bless.

[owhatamistake]

Thank you neredshuz!  I have personally done all this stuff too....and then some. That is exactly what came to mind when I read this.....CO- dependency!  Michelle...both of you really need to go consider counseling.....not together but individually....then possibly together.  People CAN change, but they can't change on will power alone.  What happens when the *new* wears off.....You, the baby, the life he *believes* he wants, etc.???  It may be a rocky road....but the best of luck to you!  What a story!

[Michelle41NJ]

No, I have no intention of being his life long teacher or keeper.  I am doing this because, I can... And you are correct, I have no interest in being a babysitter.. however, nobody ever gave him a chance.. I see how much he has grown in 6 months given correct tools, kindness and encouragement.  

He will not repeat his past relationships with me.. for 2 very important reasons.. 1.  I am not a drug addict and I don't live an insane lifestyle like they did.. 2. I would never ever stick around and put up with it.. not for a moment.  I left his house for good early Sept.  and have only allowed him to visit me 2 times.  I'm making him do the work without the reward of me right there.  It's much easier to conform and do the right thing when someone is right there by your side.. he must work much harder with me being away.  

Umm with all do respect, he is not my drug.  I don't NEED him for anything.. not for money, love, support.. nada.. I do not get any kind of rush, or mood alternating gratification from him.  I've taken purpose filled steps to not be dependent on him.  for anything..

And no, I don't fight, and no that's not about to change.. I don't need to engage in that kind of behavior with anyone for any reason.. I am 41.. and walk to the beat of my own drummer.. I have to power to walk away :-) I don't recall ever once saying I was better than him, or that he has not social redeeming value... I believe I was pretty clear on not being judgmental on any level... for I was not put here to judge others?  I for sure don't think I'm just so special and do no wrong.. that would be foolish.  I am better than no one.  I just chose to take a different path than he.  For that I am forever grateful.  I grew up in a horrific abusive household.  I was molested by my father, and my mothers boy friend.  My mother is a alcoholic who was married 6 times.  I was physically abused by her.. and mentally.  If there was ever anyone who could have taken a different path, it would be me.  I don't regret a moment of my past because it formed the woman I am today.. and I like me.. took a long time to get to that place but I know that by far my best asset is my heart and my ability to love.  Socially we are different.  It is very difficult to attend a black tie event and have my date talk about the f'ing steak.  To be walking in the mall and have him make a racist remark.  To have him show up all messed up when I am at a after work function.. THAT is what I was talking about.  It's basic common sense... and manners.. all which can be learned.  My kids know not to do those things.  lol.. I have been in therapy for years.  I'm a great advocate of it.. it's priceless to have a neutral pair of ears...

Thank you again for your concern...

Michelle

[nuredshuz]

I think you may get two babies out of this. Yes, people do change, but YOU cannot change anyone!!! You said "you have him on a short leash" you are setting yourself up for a life of "babysitting" him~ why would you want that kinda life?  It doesnt seem like you even like him very much anyway. You said he has no social skills and had a horrible marriage ~ has he gotten counceling from the horrible marriage? if not he is going to repeat what he just did~ you may not do drugs with him, but have you considered HE is YOUR drug? its called codependancy! I think perhaps you have it and he is your "drug". You said you dont fight, well thats all about to change. Cuz if you marry him with your attitude that you think your better than him and that he has pretty much no redeeming social value, your in for way more than an occasional fight. Having a husband with a horrible childhood and addictions out the wazoo, being codependant as well as an addictive personality, (ive done em all) I can tell you unless you BOTH get counseling, recovery and HONEST your in for a long ride in HELL!! ~ best of luck to you ~ peace

[Michelle41NJ]

Thank you so much for your comment.  Yes, he is going to meetings.. usually 3-4 a week.. I just arranged for him to get medical insurance so he will be seeing a psych. as well.  I can't go to meetings right now.. my pregnancy is very very high risk and I'm in bed 90% of the time.  

Congratulations on your sobriety!! It's so hard to start over.. seems like it's a re-birth.  May I ask how long did you use for?  I guess I'm most concerned because all of his adult life he used.. sometimes daily.  Mind blowing for me to think of what must be going on in his head trying to have a life that doesnt revolve around drugs.  I think I mentioned I moved out early Sept.  and he is 2 hours from me.  I am going to allow him to come see me this weekend.. my kids will be with there dad so we will have alot of time to talk..

Again, thank you for reaching out to me...  

[Michelle41NJ]

You ask" What did he have to say when you got pregnant? Was he sorry for taking advantage of you?? Have you forgiven him for that?

You ask: But what he did?? Is that someone you want to spend your life with and be the father of your child? I am sure he wasn't himself when he did it. But that is pretty extreme. Maybe if he did get help he would change

A big reason, beside my being pregnant was I video taped him all strung out.. he sobbed.. was so ashamed.. and shocked of what he looked like.. Again as for how I got pregnant, he really didn't realize I was not aware of what was going on.. he was high, thought it was ok and went for it.

Has he ever been violent with you, like hit you or anything like that?

Never.. he is very scary and has a horrible temper but thats changed a million percent since he stopped drinking and drugging.  He yelled at me once.. I blew him out of the water by my reaction.  (see above posting)  I don't care how scared I am.. I have a mouth and I use it.  When I found out I was pregnant.. I had a very long talk with his family and made them totally aware of his history.. If he uses again, it's not just me he has to deal with anymore.. I've touched very area of his life..

And again, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.. thank you all for your advice and for just caring.. I'm sure it's not easy to relive parts of your lives that were so painfilled.. thank you for giving of yourselves...