I'm new and need some help and information.

[info]

Hi everyone. I just found this site today and I'm not sure if I'm even in the right place, so if I'm not, could someone direct me? It looks like I am supposed to ask the doctor a question first, is this right?
I'm not savvy with the internet,  and I have been trying to find an on-line place where I can get real time help from people who have been there. I am sitting here with tears of frustration because I don't know what to do about my husband and I am isolated. I have no family or friends in the area, and no car of my own.
I won't go into the whole story until I find out if I am in the right place or not. I have so many questions I don't know where to begin.
I have quickly skimmed over the threads here any it looks like many have the same problems he has with narcotic pills and drugs.  
Thanks in advance for any help or direction you can give me.

PS: I tried to find info and help in a Nar-anon site but there was nothing there.

[peaz]

Hi there.  You  gave a couple clues in your post that you are evidently concerned about your husband's possible abuse of narcotics/pills. Is that correct?  You are in the right  place for all KINDS of help and information.!!  Post back and fill us in; we'll do what we can.  Been there done that!     peaz

[info]

Thanks for your responses, I appriciate it.

I don't know where to start. My husband needs some help, and the only place available to him is the VA, since we don't have insurance.

I have been reading about some meds that can help with de-tox and withdrawl symptoms.

A brief history, (if you need/want to know more I can fill you in)

He started smoking pot/cigs and taking pills and drinking when he was only 12. He has done this more or less his whole life except when he was in basic traning and the Army. He said he felt good then, but went right back to it when he got out. He never really had any love or nuturing growing up, so I think this one reason for it.

Anyway, he did slow down on the pills when we got married, (and quit drinking so that is not a problem) but due to an old Army injury had to have some surgeries and his rate of consumption has been getting worse for the past several years. He went from taking the pills the VA gave him, to adding other pills, then last year he started taking heroine (not with a needle) and spent a lot of money on it.  
We are still in somewhat of a financal bind because of it.
So, he signed up for a methadone program (PAR) and was on that for 3 months, but then heard it was hard to get off of after a certain time. Plus, he wanted to smoke pot again and this wasn't allowed.

He went off the PAR program, but the withdrawls were so bad, he is back to taking anything he can get. He says he is not taking heroine again, but morphine tablets and perks.  He is also starting to take money out of the checking account again. He said he feels bad but can't help it. I told him I was going down to the atm and take out all the money and hide it so he couldn't get at it, and he said ok.
So, now where is the money going to come from for him to buy drugs? I'm scared.

Just today he said he would consider (just consider) going into rehab at the VA, (he has two weeks vacation)  but what about de-tox, and do they have those meds there that help with the withdrawls?
He is afraid he will lose his job if he goes into rehab and I am too.
Are there meds he can take at home to de-tox? Is this done?
And could he get them from the VA? I don't know what the first step should be and neither does he because he has never considered giving up drugs entirely.

He gets all the symptoms I have read about here when he tries to go without anything, or its not enough.    
I imagine his body is so saturated after a lifetime, I feel hopeless that he will ever be free.
He is so thin, and I am afraid his liver will just give out one of these days.  

He is a kind person and we live a quite life, but we are just like roomates now. He is far away from me in spirit even though we are in the same house. He even sleeps in a different bedroom now because he can never get a good nights sleep and doesn't want to disturb me.
He's always here when he not a work, but he's not, if this makes any sense.
He doesn't want to lose me but he says he has given up, the drugs have taken him over so completely. We never had any chidren, so that is not an issue.

I feel so sad and helpless and loney. I have no one to talk this over with. My family lives in another state and would be crushed to find out all this. He has hidden it from them all these years.    

He won't sit down it front of the computer for help. All he wants to do is read old books.  I told him I was going to post here, and he will listen through me to what you all have to say.
I told him from reading here that it seems like a place to get real suggestions and help from people who have been there.  
Thanks for listening.

[Forum-M.D.-rcb]

Info:

There is hope because you have access to the Vet. Administration and they do have the capability of dealing with your problem, unless it is a very small and isolated unit.

Your husband is in what is characterized as a pre-contemplation phase of treatment. He hasn't made up his mind that he wants to come off of the drug. He must be presented with hope; that the situation is not hopeless but serious, and that it is possible to recover and others worse off than he have gotten better. Second, he must be presented with the positive things in his life that are worth living for. He is obviously depressed. He needs professional help and  he needs nutritional buildup which is long term.. Second,he needs a medical workup for he may have an additional problem such as hepatitis requiring  additional treatment. Fortunately he is not having a problem with alochol for that is deadly in the presence of hepatitis.

If he is in any reasonable state overall, outpatient (home treatment) would be a possibility but that may be a decision that may have to done by the VA folks when they evaluate him. I wonder if it would be possible for you to check with the VA folks directly or indirectly  and ask if they would consider, if his condition warrants it, to place him on a program that would allow him to go to work after two weeks in the hospital if they decide to require that. When push  comes to shove, you may have to consider saving his life as a prime consideration rather than worrying about his job. Only you and he can determine this.  

[lisabet]

Hi Info - your post breaks my heart. It sounds like you and your husband has been to the brinks of hell and back.  Reading your post, however, it sounds to me like your husband knows he has a problem and would like to get help. As for him losing his job if he enters into rehab, I think it's illegal in most (if not all states) to dismiss someone because of this, as it's recognized as a disease.  (Of course, in reality, if an employer wants to get rid of you, he/she can do it under a different pretense)....but still, you'd have a good case against them if they chose to do that.   I'm glad you found this forum, since you say you have no support from friends or family close by.  There's LOTS of support and advice here; I'm recovering from a vicodin and alcohol addiction, and I honestly don't know what I would have done without all these great people. We are all here to listen and offer support.  It's so FRIGHTENING to try to face sobriety alone.  Maybe you could also get your hubby to take a look.  From what you say, he is a kind soul that's had the life sucked out of him by drugs; all on this forum has either been there, are there now, or know it's only a matter of time before we GET there.  He is not alone, nor are you.  Will keep ya in my prayers, Love, Lisabet

[Percalot]

THomas,
         It's been a while since I've visited this site and I remember reading your recipe for a do it your-self detox.  I have a friend who's on a lot of different drugs, everything from fentanyl patchs to pscyhotropics and is ready to clean up completely, perhaps not without the help of an in or out-patient rehab but nevertheless would really appreciate the info.

                                            Thanks much,
                                                      Percalot

[Percalot]

THomas,
         It's been a while since I've visited this site and I remember reading your recipe for a do it your-self detox.  I have a friend who's on a lot of different drugs, everything from fentanyl patchs to pscyhotropics and is ready to clean up completely, perhaps not without the help of an in or out-patient rehab but nevertheless would really appreciate the info.

                                            Thanks much,
                                                      Percalot

[info]

Lisabet, thank you for your words, they mean so much. After reading back my post, I thought, oh brother, these people are going to think I'm such a whiney whimp after everything they've been through. I hear you loud and clear regarding how frightening it is to think about sobriety. My husband feels the same way. But, he knows this is the end of line, that he has stepped over a line he had drawn in his mind, and if he can get the right kind of help at the VA, he might consider it.
Hang in there Lisabet! I will be thinking of you.

Dr Thomas, we live near a large VA medical center, where my husband goes for regular checkups. He has bloodwork done every six months, and no hep yet. Like I said, he never used needles. He is petrified of them. The last time he went for bloodwork, he threw up on the nurse and then passed out. But, he IS in poor health. His diet consists of chocolat and coffee. I try all the time to get him to eat and take vitamins. But, they don't get him high so he doesn't have any use for them.  
I have been reading some more on this board, and many seem to believe in taking them, so maybe he will listen to you guys.

I read another thread about the "cocktail" for detox, and it looks like the meds needed are a combination of Buprenephine/Suboxone (which has Naltrexone, a blocker?)
The reason I ask is my experience dealing with the VA is that  
they are huge and dis-organized, so you need to know what you need and ask for it or you won't get it.
He IS depressed. The VA tried out various anti-depressants back in 92 but he had bad reactions of all of them. I keep telling him medical breakthru's have produced new ones since then, but he is leary.

He said he would consider calling the VA Wednesday (his day off) and looking into all this. So, what exactly should he ask for? He is still skiddish and if this doesn't go smoothly, he could bolt. He likes the idea of de-toxing at home and I don't blame him.  

I have more to say about the reasons he started on this path at such an early age in the first place, but I'll leave that for another time, I need to just get facts and info right now in hopes that it will get the ball rolling.
The last thing I want to do is push him before he is ready. I told him about the de-tox cocktail I read about here and he was interested. Maybe I can even get him to think about some questions he wants to ask everyone. He talks the language, so he could say it in a lot less words than I can.
I'm so glad I found this site because I think it might just be the light at the end of the tunnel I was looking for.

[Thomas03]

Ha! The only other people that thought I was a doctor were the phamacists I used to flimflam with phony telephone Rx's. I'm not a doctor, just a long-time junkie.

Everything you say convinces me your husband needs a medically supervised detox, if possible an in-house, especially if he has physical problems. Withdrawal can place a lot of stress on one's body. It pays to take advantage of medical care if you can get it. Some of us, including myself, have zero access to any medical care. Use it while you've got it!

As for asking for this detox drug or that, the VA doc is going to have his/her own ideas about what your husband needs. I've known a lot of recovering addicts that got help at the VA. I only wish I had something like the VA for me. All I've got is the hallway outside the doctor's office after they throw me out.

Thomas

[Thomas03]

the recipe is designed for cold turkey detox from opiates and doesn't address possible withdrawal from other types of drugs. Though Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid, I strongly suggest that your friend NOT attempt a cold turkey detox from this drug. Fentanyl withdrawal needs to be managed in a medical setting.

FYI: the recipe is posted under the thread, The Thomas Recipe. You might get a few general tips from it about caring for someone in withdrawal, but, again, your friend needs medical help to safely detox from Fentanyl.

Thomas

[info]

Thomas, now I'm embarrased, I thought you were the doc! (sorry for the confusion)

I spent all day on the phone. The VA does not carry Suboxone/Subutex yet.
(its too new) Also, they don't provide de-tox, just re-hab. They said my husband has to be de-toxed before they will admit him to the 28 day program there.
They also said there is a 4-6 week waiting list for a bed at the re-hab center.  They told me the best place to start would be his assigned general care doctor at the VA.
I called and got an appointment for Wednesday afternoon.
This is the doctor who has been prescribing the phropoxaphene (pink caps) and then lortab (blue pills in the shape of a cap) for all these years. (plus valium, which my husband doesn't take that often, believe it or not)

I am going to go with him and he is going to tell the doctor everything. All the drugs he has been on besides the ones the VA prescribed. He is going to ask the doctor to cooridinated his recovery, and is hoping he will be able to prescribe something that will help him get through de-tox.
He is also hoping the doctor can do something to move up a bed for him at re-hab.

I also called two local de-tox centers and they don't offer medical support such as IV fluids for dehydration, etc.  He doesn't want to go into a de-tox center. He just wants to take to his own bed.

He is so dehydrated that the skin on his face is like paper and just hangs. He told me at lunch that he has now added crack to his list. His reasoning was that he needed to get off the opiates (methadone and pills)
For years, all he took were the pills he got from the VA, and pot. I think he has scared himself with the massive amout of drugs he has bombared his body with over the last year. He is rail thin and doesn't look well at all. I think he knows that his body just can't take it anymore. Plus, he is scared of the money that he has spent.

He is still worried about his job, so this is what we figured out. Someone please tell me if this is not a good idea!

He said he hasn't had any drugs today except pot. A little while ago his legs were moving around like he was a marionette and he was sweating.
He is going to call in sick tomorrow, and then Wesnesday is his usual day off. He asked me for (4) 5mg valium. I also had 10 lortabs that he had given me last week for safe keeping and asked for 2 of those.
He will stay at home until Wed. afternoon when we see the VA doctor, and will maintain on the 8 lortabs and some valium. What can I expect?  What are the physical danger signs I should look for?

I am making sure he is drinking glass after glass of water, and gave him some multi B vitimens and an iron tablet today. (should I drop the iron?) I read about potasium in another thread, should I go get some bananas tomorrow? He likes them. I was able to get him to eat dinner before he went upstairs to try and sleep. (I think the pot helped his jumpy stomach)  

I asked for the keys to the truck, because I am afraid he will wake up early and go looking for stuff. He said ok. I think he really means to go through with this.

He thinks he is going to go back to work on Thursday, but I don't want him too. I know his connection lives right there and he would be too tempted. He never calls in sick to work, so he has sick days he could take.  
His other day off is Friday, and he plans on going up to the the "big" VA where the re-hab center is for his first interview. I'm going with him, I'm leaving his side!

Am I being too micro-managing? I want to do the right thing for him, and he seems ok to be on board with the plan. I just don't want anything to happen to him before Wed. afternoon. One good thing is that if his VA doc thinks he needs to be in the hospital, (for IV fluids, etc) he can get him into the VA one right away. Please advise, you can tell me I'm an idot and I won't mind. Thanks.

[lisabet]

God, you're a wonderful caretaker.  Wish you were here to take care of me!...smile.  Your hubby is very lucky to have you.  It sounds like he really-really wants to overcome this. He's taken the first step, which is so-so hard. The first step is the hardest...to admit you need help, and it seems like he's accepted that.  Please keep us informed of his progress, and don't forget to take care of YOU also.  Love and prayers, Lisabet

[freezing]

End of day three on Suboxone, and I feel normal for the first time in years.

Let's all hope it lasts.

I feel normal.  The constant fear and distraction is dissipating.

Make no mistake, the first day is hell.  W/d's, depression, fear, loneliness.

But, I am emerging.  It takes time to adjust.  I'm pretty sure it will take more time to adjust, but it's getting better and better.

I came off 100mcg plus of fentanyl duragesic and ready to go higher or back to methadone.  Not any more.

If you make the switch to subox, it's not easy, but my goodness, it's only three days.  I can function.  The w/d's were not that bad.

I'm only on about 16 to 20mg of subox.  It's hard to keep track exactly, but I will.  You have to feel it out and adjust.

[Thomas03]

Oy vay -- crack as a means of getting off narcs. Very original! Crazy, but original.

It sounds like your husband’s body is more polluted than an ashtray at a Greyhound bus terminal. He’s going to be a complete mess unless he gets some real help. You need to know that this is more than you are trained or equipped to handle on your own.

I think what you’re saying is that, if the VA doc admits him, he can come down from all this stuff in the VA hospital. I hope that’s what you’re saying.

You’re doing the right thing by giving him all the food, water and vitamins he will take. But he is about to get VERY sick. And VERY desperate. From what I can tell, if he stays off drugs, or even if he takes just those few Valium and Lortabs you have, he’s going to be coming down from propoxyphene, hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine and cocaine. Katy bar the door!

If he is to have any chance at all, you must keep his ass in the house and away from the dealers til his Wednesday doctor appointment. The Valium combined with Imodium (immodium) for the runs and lots of hot baths for the muscle pain is your best hope in the short term. When you see the doctor, tell him everything about every single drug he’s taking. Lay it on thick. If the doc knows everything, I don’t see how he can fail to hospitalize him.

You need to know that what your husband is experiencing now will become an order of magnitude worse in 1 to 3 days. Without “custodial” medical treatment, he’ll cave, as we all have done a million times, and score. I know I would if I were withdrawing from all that stuff without help. I know because I have withdrawn from a poly drug habit similar to your husband’s.

From what you’ve said, your husband is not a bad man. He’s just a lost man. He’s operating from the part of his brain that doesn’t reason, but only needs. Don’t expect him to be rational. If he can simply stay home til the appointment and then come clean with the doctor, that is really all you can ask of him. Take things minute by minute. Don’t ask him to think beyond the doctor appointment. Just help him get there. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

Thomas

[info]

Thanks all for your words.

Well, its 5:00 in morning here. He is asleep but now I am awake.

After he took the valium and lortabs, he was able to go to sleep (about 8:00 pm) I posted here and then went upstairs too. I fell asleep, and woke up around 3:00, I must have sensed him moving around. He said he woke up around 2:00, took the other 4 valium and 2 lortabs he asked me leave out for him, had a roll of Ritz crackers with creamcheese, some more water, a cig, and was just drifting off when I woke up. Now is he asleep again but I couldn't get back to sleep.

He said last night he wants the VA doc to admit him. I don't know if this is because he is afraid of scoring or not.

This is sticky situation is that the VA has a policy of not allowing de-tox on the premisis. Maybe the doc can get around it by saying its for dehydration (or whatever)
If this happens, I don't know how he can keep this from his job. They know he is a vet, and he did take a week off for surgery last year, so I don't know. The secretary told me about a week ago that he didn't look well. I'll have to think of something.

I am asking for prayers that the VA doc can and will help him. If he doesn't, I fear the worst.
I am stronger than I might appear, and I can deal with all this through his recovery, but not if he goes back to using again. When he told me he was using crack I felt like I was going into a freefall. Like in the movies, when you see someone spinning around and around.
I have my own health problems, but they are unique in that I can't take any drugs at all! (I consider this a good thing, considering)

Thank God I found this site. I will take all of your suggestions seriously. I hope when he feels well enough he can come here too. He knows I am talking here, so I might be back later with more questions if either of has any.
Take care all, and keep up the good fight.
~info~

[too blue]

I posted a little while ago.  It started a new question and I was trying to participate in another question, but I did it wrong.  Now I have paid more attention and think I have it.  But no one has answered my questions and I was wondering if there was something I was supposed to do before I could be involved in the ongoing forum.   Thanks

[vettezr1]

Your msg has been posted it just take some time for people to write back.
I was/am in the same boat. Chronic pain lots of pain meds got feed up and stopped it all.
In a later post Thomas made a very good point about pain patients having to deal with their pain and how they will or can. My doctors also insisted that I was no addict and did not have the personality to become addicted they are right but I am no more immune from the physical aspect of narcotics than anyone else. So the end result was I got very sick when I stopped all my meds, no craving or weird **** like some say they feel but flu symptoms times 10. I go to pain management doctor who is trying everything she can for my pain without Opiates, you might want to try Betrex, or Tizanidine. The only way anything is going to work is by being patient; there is no instant pain relief with these new meds. My doc has informed me that it could take months before I get any relief.
I know all to well the temptation of just taking a damn pill to have all the pain stop but I don’t want to be controlled by anything. I am not familiar with your type of condition maybe others can be more helpful. I think pain meds long term are a bad idea I am hoping that modern medicine will give us some better options, but for right now its the heating pad, work outs and doing anything to distract me. Good luck.

[info]

Too Blue, I'm glad to see you got a response to your question, hang in there and good luck to you :)

Update on my husband. His worst symptom so far are his traveling legs. He can't keep them still. But, he is calm other than that.
One good thing is that he is eating everything in sight! So far today he has had a bowl of spagetti, ice cream and fresh black cherries, 1/2 a of cherry pie, and now is eating more crackers and cream cheese.  He wants steak, rice pilaf and green beans for dinner, so that's what he'll get.
Last night he ate dinner for the first time in 2 weeks. He got up in the middle of the night to eat again.
He has had 4 big glasses of water today and took another B vitamin.
His face already looks fuller, and the loose skin in tighter.
The crack must have really done a number on him. His drug of choice has always been opiates. I think the crack experience scared him, but he still has a giant monkey on his back when it comes to the other stuff.

He has taken 2 more lortabs since I last posted and smoked some pot. No more valium. He is getting ready to try and take a nap.
He only has four lortabs left until tomorrow afternoon.  Tonight he will probably need more valium. I just don't want him to get addicted to THAT now.

He is still insisting he needs to go to work on Thursday. He works for a religious organization, and of course its Easter week, so his absence right now is highly noticable.

I know he will not agree to go directly to the hospital tomorrow unless the doctors insists on it. He said yesterday he felt like he needed to be there, but I guess he's feeling better today from all this food he has been eating.
(and the crack wearing out of his system)

He says one thing at a time. If the doctor will give him something so he can de-tox privately, and he can still continue to work, that's what he wants. (he has always been a working machine, its just how he is) Plus, he feels needed and wanted at his job, and its a big deal to him if he loses it.

I asked him about the 28 day re-hab program and he says he needs some time to figure out how he can do it and not get fired. (they love him there, but 28 days? for re-hab? they would be shocked) I know you guys told me not to jump the gun, but the conversation went there anyway.
I want to know how insistant I should be on this. I have a feeling if I'm not, he will skip it. He needs to get the ball rolling now because the wait is so long.
I made him promise that he wouldn't use crack again, and he agreed, but told me he couldn't promise he wouldn't get a few pills to get him through the day on Thursday. He says even if his doctor prescribes something tomorrow, it couldn't be filled at that location. He would have to drive up to the regional hospital center to have it filled.
Its like him to go to work on Thursday and get everything he needs to get done and leave early to drive up the VA to get meds filled.
What should I do, how should I act, what should I say or not say. How much should I say at the doctors tomorrow? I promised him I wouldn't be a budinsky, but if he starts giving the doctor a line of bs should I speak up? How would you feel if your spouse did this?    
I have left him alone for the most part today (just so you know)
I just want to know in the days to come, how much I should push him. My instincts tell me not to just leave him alone and hope for the best, but to push this issue now that it is on the table.
He doesn't mind being pushed as some others might, it was sort of how he was raised....keep going on like you are until someone makes a big enough fuss....He showed his cards to me and after all these years I feel it was his way of asking for help, but I could be wrong.
What do you all think? I'll go along with whatever you say.

[Thomas03]

don't be stingy with the Valium right now. He won't get addicted to it during a few days of detox. The Valium, combined with the pot, is probably why he's eating. If he were in a detox now, they would almost certainly have him on Valium (or a sister drug). The restless leg (RLS) is how they coined the term "kick the habit." Potassium (bananas are a good source), calcium plus the Valium plus hot baths is the best therapy for RLS.

I sympathize about the job situation. However, if he doesn't detox and stop using he'll be fired anyway. And that might be the least of it. He could also be busted, not to mention die.

If the VA doctor can admit him under a different diagnosis, why not use the same diag as his work excuse? His work will undoubtedly want a doctor's note anyway. Might as well be consistent. But let's just hope he will be admitted. If he is, you can catch a breather yourself. It sounds like you need it!

Thomas

[lisabet]

Will have you in my thoughts and prayers; Wednesday will be a turning point (hopefully) for both you and your hubby.  Although he is fighting it, I agree with Thomas; it sounds like it would be most beneficial for him to be admitted to get the help he needs.  Right now, don't worry about him losing his job, etc.  Things really do have a way of working out for the best.  Just take it a day at a time, and don't forget to take care of YOU.  Love, Lisabet

[info]

Hi everyone. We made it to the doctors, but my husband almost chickened out at the last minute.
I have met this VA doctor before, he is smart and very nice.
He has know for years that my husband has a drug problem, and wasn't surprised to hear about the added drugs.
He said my husband was in no danger, and didn't feel he was in physical withdrawl at the moment. He did a two year stint in de-tox or something like that, I can't remember.
The doctor felt most concerned for me (he said I was remarkable) whatever, that doesn't help my husband.

Anyway, he is precribing Prosac for his depression, and it will be mailed to the house in a few days.
Of course, now my husband won't get any more Lortab, and he is trying hard not to cry about it. Literally.  
My husband can go up to the regional VA 5 days a week if he wants, and get free psych counceling about this. He can also get outpatient re-hab if he wants. The doctor agreed that keeping his job is important.

VA doctors pretty much go with the flow. If they see a patient who is hell bent on being a drug addict, they do what they can to minimized the risk.

So, he proposed that my husband go to a private pain management doctor,(he recomended one by name)  tell him that he has cronic pain from his military injury, (supported with records) and that methodone has been the only thing that has helped.
Side note here: the 3-4 months my husband was on methadone, it did help the pain, but the pain is *mostly* in his head, the doctor knows this.

Then, if the pain managment doctor is willing to recomend that my husband be on methodone for pain, the VA doctor is willing to give him a prescription for it. This will be at no cost.

We don't have private insurance, and pain management doctors are very expensive! And, there is no garantee that the pain managment doctor will go along with this. What a mess.
My husband is in bed sulking right now, and WILL go to work tomorrow but not before he gets some pills to get him through the day. I am not deluding myself.
I might as well in be withdrawl myself, every muscle in my body aches right now from stress. I've had it with everything.

The only ray of hope I have right now is that the Prosac will help somehow. My husband DOES realize the mess he has made with all this, so I am hoping he will at least try and curb it somewhat until he can see if the Prosac can help him with the mental withdrawl. He looks better right now than he has in a while. His eyes are clear and his face is not sunken in like it was on Monday. The RLS has slowed down too. I have been masaging his legs and that seems to help.
But, he says he is in mental agony. I can see this is far from over. Lord, give me strength.
And, thanks to everyone for listening and responding.  
If anyone has any suggestions on what to do now, they are welcomed.

[Chezz2]

Info,

Glad to see you are hanging in there.
Sorry to hear about the doc appt. PERSONALLY I think that doc is an idiot, and is not concerned for the well being of your husband. From your assessment you provided to us, he is in for a hell of a ride, and I doubt it will end. I assume he won't be able to hang and when he goes to work, he will take care of the situation the only way he knows how, getting more meds/drugs.
I am sorry to say that. But he REALLY NEEEEEEDS to be in in-house detox right now. The VA doc should have seen that and taken care of him. Instead he said, in essence - I know he has been addicted for years, the pain is in his head, he can suffer for a couple weeks, and then will be fine.
Personally I don't see that as the outcome of this. Nor do I think he should have to suffer through this. Especially with having the VA right there that should take care of him. Although I am a disabled vet also and know all too well how it can go. Luckily I don't have to deal with the VA yet.
I wish the best for you and your husband. I also hope he can get access to the medical treatment he NEEDS.
I am sorry for the "neg" response. But I am just so pissed he didn't get taken care of. Nor do I think, in his case, that just simply cutting him off and sending him prozac is going to work for him.
Chezz

BTW - The prozac won't do much for him. So don't think of it as a silver liner. Not to mention, anti-depressants can take 3 weeks to work - for what they are made for DEPRESSION, not full-blown detox, which you husband will be in very soon.

That VA doc needs to get HIS head checked.

[info]

Chezz, thanks for your response. I didn't think your post was negative, just that you care.  I was disappointed too, but I am trying to maintain and not freak out in front of my husband.

This doctor has been his doctor for years. He knows every test, every x-ray, every surgery, all his blood work, everything.  His blood pressure, temp, etc were normal.  The VA does NOT offer de-tox, what else could he have done?
I said, so he doesn't need to be hosptialized? And he said for what?
I said for withdrawl, and he said my husband was showing no physical signs of it and he was fine otherwise. (he DID look MUCH better today than he did Monday night)

I asked about Subutex/Subutone and the VA doesn't carry it yet. He said at this point, its all up to my husband on what will happen next. If my husband wants in-house re-hab he is welcome to it, but its not de-tox and its up to him to go sign up.  The doctor can't make him do it.

I thought of another plan, and I ran it by him, but right now he is "tweaking".
He said he would think about this.

I thought, since the pain specialist is so expensive, and there is no garantee that he will end up with the methadone, why not spend the money on Subutex/Subutone instead? Why go into a life on methadone? Or, would he have to see a pain specialist anyway to get the Subutex? Could he just take the Subutex for 30 days and would this help?
I am trying to think of anything to help at this point. He has shown some willingness to think about a life without drugs but I am so in the dark about what to do.

The de-tox centers I called seemed so useless. All they really offered was to lock him up for 3 days and give him some valium. I can do that for him at home.  If he goes in voluntarily could he leave if it gets too much? If this is so, what would be the point?    

He says he is going to "go easy" until the prozac gets here. He promised he would never touch crack again, and I believe him. It was a short stint, and it scared him, he told me. He has always been about the pills.  

I think he needs the prozac, he HAS been depressed for awhile now. He thinks he needs and it will help, so maybe it will. Know what I mean?  

I'll know the minute he walks in the door after work tomorrow if he "took it easy".
I am urging him to go up to the VA on Friday (his other day off) to talk to the psyc doctors. Maybe they can help, somehow.

[lisabet]

Info - I agree with Chezz and Thomas - it would have been better if your hubby had been admitted and treated accordingly. Personally, right now, I'm more concerned with your well-being. It sounds you're exhausting yourself trying to take care of him. Please realize his recovery is totally his decision; I'm impressed by the fact you're standing by him and trying to help but in the end it's totally up to him to come to terms with his own recovery.  Please don't feel it's up to you to protect and "save" him; it's just too much to ask of yourself. Maybe you need to mentally "separate" a little and start taking care of yourself first, and try to be there for him emotionally but let him know he's the one in charge of his own recovery. Don't know if this makes any sense, but I feel you need to start thinking of yourself a little more, and for God's sake, get some rest.  Love ya, Lisabet

[pammy0690]

Hi I haven't posted to you yet but I have been following your story.  An important question to ask is what does you husband want to do?  Does he want off the drugs completely?  Does he want to do Methadone maintance?  Or a suboxone detox?  You have to remember that the problem lays in him and you can be there for him and support his choices but the choices are his.  I had to learn this the hard way in my own marriage.  He has to want to be clean to stay clean.  Remember that addicts are sneaky, and manlipulative. He may have setbacks and relapses.  Addicts make promises and break them.  I know because I have done that myself.  He really must take it one day at a time.  If you talk to any old timer in AA they know that they can't promise they are not going to drink ever again but they can not drink for a minute or a hour.  Keep trying to get him professional help but involve him in the process and see what he really wants.  Also do some online research about methadone mantianance and suboxone.  Good luck!  You are really a wonderful and caring wife.  He is lucky to have you! Pamela

[info]

A new development.
I found a de-tox center that offers viseral as a med to help with de-tox.

I was given this when I had to have surgery last year, and I didn't remember anything for days. Also, I know this is the med that was given to his mother when she was dying a few years ago, and it put her in a coma-like state.

He called me this morning from work, and evidently couldn't find anything satisfactory, he sounded awful.
He is now seriously considering checking into that de-tox center if they can offer him something to more or less knock him out for a few days. He is already part of the way there, and just wants to get it over with at this point.
He knows he can't do it on his own.
It seems like this situation is changing from hour to hour, and being a planner type of person, its hard for me but I'm trying to be flexable and go with flow.

He is also VERY worried about the financial toll this is taking. He justified his pill use for years because he was getting them free from the VA, but this has morphed into a whole new thing. He has done some sneaky things to get money too.  He sold his wedding ring, and hocked our lawn equipment.
I know he feels awful about this, and suspect he stepped up the drug use to get away from these feelings. (along with the physical part of it)
His mother always drummed into his head not to let anything or anyone make you feel guilty about anything, and take a pill if that helps. (I'm dead serious about this) I know nobody wants to hear about her but I had to get that out. She was a HORRIBLE mother to him. There, I said it.
I am also worried he WILL be able to find "somthing" and just say nuts to getting clean.

Anyway, I was able to get a ball park figure of about 500.00. This will hurt as he spent so much on that stupid two week crack binge he was on,  but I'll find a way if he is on board and you guys think it is a good idea.
They said if he stays semi-detoxed until he checks in, it might be as short as 3 days but maybe as long as a week. He says he can manage this with his job. (tell them he needs another small surgery, he won't need a note)

What do you guys think? He gets home around 3:00, and the de-tox place said he needs to call them himself for futher questions. Has anyone has experince with visterol in de-tox? They also said they offer about 20 differents meds to help with all sorts of withdrawls.

I am confused because the other de-tox center I called said they don't even offer in-house de-tox anymore for opiate withdrawl, and no meds at all. How could two different de-tox centers be so different?

I am getting more tired and confused as the days go on. I wish I could get him to sit long enough to read here himself and maybe get a dialog going, but he is too uncomfortable for that right now. He HAS been listening to what you all are saying through me, though.

  

[pammy0690]

If they will take him that will be the best place for him.  They can medicate the withdrawal and give him the much needed counseling and support.  This way you will know he is safe and can get a little rest yourself.  Tell him not to worry about the money right now, easier said than done.  The important thing is that he gets better!  Keep posting and again you are a great wife and a wonderful person.  I think many of us wished we had someone as caring as you on our sides!  PAmela

[info]

Pamela, I forgot to thank you in my last post, so, thanks! Like said in my very first post here, I am not savvy with the internet, and really don't know how I found my way here, but I'm glad I did.

You guys have helped me from completely freaking out over the last few days. I thank you all for my husband's sake.

I tried to get him to stop abusing the monthly pills from the VA for years, but it fell on deaf ears. I finally gave up somewhere along the way, its been exhausting. I hope this is the bottom, I can't let myself think of what might be if its not. Not right now, I have to try and stay focused on the moment. I don't know how much longer I can keep this up, though.

I am going to push this de-tox center when he gets home. Pray for us that he hasn't scored to his satisfation by then. If he comes home feeling comfortable this will all go out the window. I just know it.
I'll post back later and tell you what happened.

[lisabet]

Hi honey - like I said in a previous post, you can't be responsible for your hubby's usage or recovery - he has to do it for himself. You really-really need to take care of yourself right now. He's really lucky to have such a great partner as yourself, but don't try to "save" him.  He is responsible for his own recovery - to be honest, you don't have anything to do with it, except for giving him your support.  So let yourself off the hook (without guilt)... don't coddle him; let him know you support him in his decisions---remember, you can't control this horrible thing called "addiction". To a degree, you have to let it go, and let your hubby take charge of his own recovery, however he chooses to do so. You'll be in my prayers; how badly he wants to recover is an indication of how well he'll do, IMHO.  At this point, it's really up to him.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[info]

Hi everyone. Well, my husband went right back to using. He told me its "just" methadone tablets but I think its more. (maybe even crack, I don't know)

I don't think I can take anymore of this. I just want to be away from it.
If he hadn't messed up our finances so bad, I think I would leave. I might still have to. I have a feeling he is trading his future paycheck for it. I came into this marriage will all the money and most of it is gone now. Ah well, I always thought I was brighter than that. Guess I'm not because here I am. I had choices and I choose him, so I have only myself to blame for that.

He doesn't just have a monkey on his back, he has a HUGE GORILLA sitting on his head. I can't fight it.

I don't even think in-house de-tox and in-house re-hab will help him at this point. That VA doctor filled his head with a promise of free methadone, that put an idea in his head that wasn't there before.
Even if he did make it to the pain doc, found a way to pay for it, and even if the pain doc agreed, and even if my husband got the free 4 tabs of 10ml methadone from the VA, he would probably end up trading it out, or abusing it somehow. I just know it.

I have been reading everyone's courageous fights against the monster here, and I realize some have fallen off only to get back up again. I commend you. I would be happy with an effort at this point, and although he says not to give up, that he is thinking about it, I feel myself giving up more and more everyday and turning my thoughts to building a new life for myself, somehow. 12 years is just too long, and this last year was the iceing on the cake.

Sorry I couldn't come on here and give better news, I haven't posted for days hoping that things would turn around so I could have something other than this to report.

Thanks for all your help and kind words last week, I really appriciate it.
I wish your efforts could have paid off more. It must feel good when you get to actually help someone. Keep up the good work. If anything changes I'll let you know. I still lurk here cheering you on.
Maybe when I get over my poor me phase I'll be able to do more than just cheer you silently.
  

[pammy0690]

I am so glad that you posted.  So many poeple tend to fade into the background here especially when things do not go as planned.  I was afraid that you were in danager of a huge manulipulation from your husband.  See that is what we addicts do when we are at our worse is hurt the ones we love.  Sad as it is your husband isn't convience that there is no way out but quitting yet.  Hopefully he gets there soon.  In the meantime you have big decisions to make for your own sanity.  Do yourself a favor and attend an alanon meeting or two.  This is the best group to learn how to cope with living with an addict.   The group leaders would have good insight on how you can be kind to yourself.  You should be able to find one in your area call the number in the phone book for AA and ask where the next Alnon meeting is.

Secondly, methadone is a strong, strong, strong med.  There are poeple who have quit and suffered intensely while trying to quit.  Some even for months after being clean.  There are people who swear by it for pain.  These poeple are poeple who have had mutlipule surguries or cancer and really truely cannot get pain relief from regular meds.  Methadone maintance should not be entered into lightly as a quick fix for an addiction.  Wouldn't four days of detox be better than months of pain?  Just make sure he understands what he is getting himself into.  Most likey he is only thinking "I feel better" and can go on with his buziness but he could wind up with a bigger problem on his hands.

Again I am so happy that you checked in.  This is a great forum.  Mr Michael knows a lot about Methadone and is a great person to ask questions to if you would like to know exactly how it works!  God bless you!  Pamela

[Anhedonio]

Hi “info”,

I have been lurking on this thread since its beginning, and I’m sure most of those who have followed it have thought “I wish I had someone like that for support.” You are truly an angel, and even though your husband may have lapsed, you are still that angel.

Often the decision to quit using is an easy one (probably because it is one that is often made high). You sit down and write down all the short and long term advantages and disadvantages and it becomes obvious that life would be much more enriching without drugs. Actually quitting on the other hand can be a long agonizing battle. If we could do this with a rational mind, it would probably be far easier to achieve.

Without rambling too much, what I’m trying to say is that rational thoughts usually take a back seat to urges to use. You can’t make your husband quit, but you can help him realize when he is thinking irrationally.

I hope and pray that you both can find the will to get through this. Please keep posting, good or bad. I think there’s a lot of folks here pulling for you, and if nothing else, want to know that you are okay.

James

[info]

Thank you Pammy and Anhedonio for posting. I burst into tears when I read your posts. I have NO ONE to talk to about this, and you are a lifeline to me right now.

The thing about going to a meeting. I had a great little lease car for a few years, and planned on getting another one when the lease was up.
Well, it turned out that my husband spent all the money I was going to use for it on heroine. So, now I'm without a car, stuck in this house. I only get out a few times week to dash to the store for groceries or to see my doctors.

The thing that gets me is I have more real health problems than he does, but I live with the aches and pains. I can't even take over the counter tynenol due to a freak thing that happened to me.  He holds onto the "pain" he "thinks" he has as an excuse.  
Even if he tried and failed, at least he would have tried, know what I mean? I can't fault anyone for trying, even if it doesn't stick the first time. Or the second, or third, at least there is an EFFORT to have self awareness and live free.  

I don't want to see him in the angony of withdrawl, I really don't.
I almost died a few years ago from an allergic reaction to a medication I was prescribed and went into liver failure. I KNOW what suffering is. I was bedridden for months in such agony I couldn't even watch tv or talk on the phone.  I don't wish it on anyone, but its the only way he can heal and be free.
I KNOW how scared he must be to think of facing this, but I'm so frustrated at this situation I feel like I'm losing my mind.

He says he feels bad about all this, but??? He doesn't know how far he's fallen. He can't see it. And I can't make him see it. I fear he won't see it until he's in a jail cell or I'm gone.
I suspect if I leave him he will use hard until he's dead. I have that thought hanging over me.  I swear if it was legal I would comit him for as long as it takes. But I can't, I have no power at all. None.  

Anyway, I don't want to get off on a rant here. He just poked his head in the door and I have to see what he wants. Maybe this will be the time he tells me he's ready. Maybe...maybe...

Take care everyone, I admire and thank you all!

[lisabet]

Hi honey - I'm sorry things didn't work out as you hoped.  I sense you've reached the "end of your rope", and when that happens BELIEVE me, you'll know it.  The sad truth is, you can't "save" this man, as much as you care for him.  It has to be 100% HIS decision to get clean and stay that way. I know that makes you feel helpless, but if you look at it in a different way maybe it will actually "empower" you to admit and realize that it is not your responsibility, but his. You are only responsible for your own actions, not his. If he's hell-bent on killing himself with drugs, he'll do it with or without your support. I'm by no means an expert, but my gut advise is to take care of yourself right now, till you figure out what is best for YOU!!!  Take it a day at a time, info - I wish you peace of mind, and the means within yourself to find it.  Love you, Lisabet

[pammy0690]

You got the weight of the world on your shoulders right now.  Lisabet is correct in saying that it has to be 100% his choice to use or not.  If you decide to leave him or not must be 100% your choice as well.  Like I said before be careful of what he might promise or say to make it seem like he is going to get clean.  We addicts are expert liars and manulipulators.  Do not let him do that to you.  Can you take control of the finances?  That way you will have a roof over your head.  I think if you call AA they may be able to talk to you over the phone about Alnon or arrange to have someone pick you up for a meeting.  Also if you go to the AA website they will have information on how to deal with an addict.  Or go to the public library and find books on Alnon.  This will give you some direction as to what you can do to deal with him.  

Your story really touched me for some reason.  Maybe because you are supportive of your husband, or because you seem so nice.  I really want this to turn out for the best for YOU.  If that means that you have to leave or stay that is only for you decide.  I guess it is really what you are willing to put up with.  You can also call a professional counselor to help you through this trying time.  If you call your local office of mental health they should put you in contact with a free or low cost counselor.  I think another reason why your situation touched me is that I can see how much you care and how he continues to use dispite the fact that you are more than willing to help.  This proves that he is on his own and must decide for himself.  Please take care of yourself and keep your chin up!  Pamela

[Brody]

Hi info:

I have been reading your posts and the story sounds very familiar to me... my story. I'm a recovering addict and I was wondering if anyone has ever told you about Narcotics Anonymous. There is nothing like sitting around a room full of people who know what the hell you are going through. There are people there who are in all phases of recovery ranging from 1 day to 20+ years. I remember going to my first meeting and hearing a guy who had 10 years of clean time talking about how used to be just like me (or your husband), strung out on dope, and not thinking that there was any hope. I just stared at him because he looked so happy, and healthy, and he had just came in from work with his suit on. I couldn't belive he had ever been like me!! It gave me something I hadn't had before...HOPE!! I'm not saying the road is easy, and I'm not saying that once you put the drugs down everthing magically gets better, but Narcotics Anonymous saved my life. Most of us realized that in our addiction we were slowly committing suicide, but our addiction is so strong that we had lost the power to do anything about it. Narcotics Anonymous feels that the value of one addict helping another is without parallel. It makes pwerfect sense, because one addict can best understand and help another addict.

Well, that's my two sense for whatever's it worth. I will pray for you and your husband and as always, I thank God for another day clean.

[Slimmy]

Hi, Info.  I have just read your predicament and the valiant steps you and your husband have taken.  I'm curious where you found a detox program for $500.00?  I'm in California and the cheapest I have been quoted is $3,500 for a month.  Like your husband (at the start of your messages) my son is very thin, doesn't eat or drink much, his muscle tone has gone.  I have tried just about everywhere to get him help.  Some of the places don't even answer my e-mail when I ask for their costs.  They probably figure that if I have to ask, I can't afford it!  One who did reply even told me that the money is not the point (they quoted $18,000), it was my son's life at stake.  You can imagine how I felt.  I don't have $18,000, but would sell my soul for that amount if that what it takes to make my son better.

Anyway, I'm so glad to read that you 'stand by your man', as in the words of the song.  You must love him very much.  Hang in there, I'm sure with your support your husband will overcome.

Bless you

[passenby]

hi all, I'm new and just posted on another thread then it said no more room for comment does this mean I won't get any feed back ever? Just finding this forum by accident has helped so much. I 've been reading for two weeks and just got the guts to say anything.sure could use anyones helpif you read my post from other thread you will understand what the problem is.

[justme123]

I want to know what would show up as cocain in a urine drug test, that is not actualy the street drug cocain.

[sundara]

have been trying like heck to post question . . no luck . . anyone out there with experience with the naltronex/revia implant (opiate blocker). .. i had on implanted 14 days ago swollen sore . .doc prescribed steroids .. .4 days ago . .seemed to improve . . .,then hurt again, there's a lump and it's sore .. maybe normal . .don't want to go to clinic again (already put out $1400) . .. cheap compared to what i was paying for street drugs, however, wanting to talk with someone experienced . . .
please reply . . any knowledge would be appreciated ... had a 7 week implant - put in . . so i am already into day 15 with it in . .
PEACE/LOVE/UNDERSTANDING - SUNDARA !!!!!

[NAT21]

Hi, Im not sure what exactly to say, but I am married to an alcoholic and drug addict who has been  in and out of treatment nearly 70 different times. During the time we have been together, I have kept our lives together and been behind him in his treatment. My main concern is what I can do as far as not enabling him. We have only been married for 2  years and have a 17month old daughter. My husband has a habit of being clean and sober for months at a time and then relapsing. In the process, he leaves my daughter and I with nothing, no money, and vanishes until he resurfaces either inthe emergency room or at our front door...drunk. I have repeatedly let him come back, but I feel that this time is different and that I need to break ties with him in order to regain a sane life for myself and our child. Im in nursing school and need to have surgery soon. My husband is nowhere to be found. What advice can you give me regarding my role in his destructive behavior? He is 34years old and I am 22. How much of his behavior is addiction-related? Are there some people who live their entire lives like this?? Is my love for him simply a soft place to fall each time he disrupts our lives? Any advice would be welcomed. And if this is an inappropriate post for this site, please disregard!

Thanks!

[Susie B]

Just wanted you to know that you are not alone. I'm trying to help my husband, too. I'm not a user of anything, so it makes it a little harder to relate, but when you really love someone, you feel thier pain. That doesn't make it any less frustrating and heartbreaking. Maybe we need a modified Alanon - Alanarc? Keep posting.

[lisabet]

Just wondering how you're doing - haven't seen any posts from you for several days.  Hope all is well.  Keep in touch.  We care. Love, Lisabet