In the middle of withdrawl, need help!!

[G'Kar]

I’m new to this forum.  I just discovered it.  This is long, but, Please … I need help!!  I sincerely hope that any of you can offer some words of advice.  I have been using / abusing opiates for about 4 years now.  Mostly Tylenol #3s  I take 14 at a time, for a total of 14 X 30 mg = 420 mg.  Only once a day (Mostly), but every day.  If I go 22 hours, I start to feel the withdrawal symptoms.

I needed more than was being prescribed, and for quite some time I acquired more from different pharmacies.  I got caught, THANK GOD, with a fake script.  No legal repercussions, but one very pissed off pharmacist.  I could still go to other pharmacists, “My regulars”.  As a matter of a fact, I was at one the other day because I was at my last 30 or so.  I was just about to do it when I just “Said No”.  It has been 64 hours and I feel really BAD!!!

I guess that I’m also looking for reasons to stay away from it.  I still work out, I am successful at work and I’m still in school doing very well.  The main reason that I’m trying to stop is that I found it difficult to cut back.  That difficulty freaked me out.  I’m kind of a control freak.  I think that it may be changing my moods.  The only time I’m really happy and talkative and overly outgoing is when I know that I will be chewing my 14 that afternoon.  This is my 3rd day that I will be going without it.  I have almost ZERO motivation, aside from feeling horrible.  How long does it take to have it come back?  How long until I stop wanting to take it?  All I have to do is go to my local pharmacist and get another batch.  I don’t want to do that.

My problem is that that was it.  I do not want to allow myself to fill it again.  Please help me!, I don’t want to give in to this.  I just need some words from people who have been there.  I’m 34 and was / still am, a very healthy person.  I don’t even drink.  I eat health ect.  How can I ease the crash!?  I have Valium for sleeping.  This is not a problem for me.  I don’t really like the effects of this drug.  I tried this to ease the extreme mussel aches I am having, but all it did was make me feel like a sore wet blanket.  I have a medical background, so advice from the pros would be as appreciated as much as from those who have been there.

For those interested, my history:

I am a successful husband and father.  I started innocently enough, taking a small quantity for pain.  Over time I started taking 8 to 10 once a day for Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  Then I started including Wednesday, and then every day.  It gave me motivation to do all kinds of stuff.  But soon taking the stuff WAS the motivation.  

I have been very scientific about my use.  I realize that the Acetaminophen take a toll on my liver.  I calculated the maximum that I could “Safely take and added a little to it.  I even used a cold-water extraction technique to remove the Acetaminophen from the codeine.  I monitored my liver enzymes for signs of trouble.  I was OK.  I realized that this was a definite problem when I tried to cut back.  I was looking forward to it too much.  I began to plan tings around it.  I know what the signs of addiction are.  This was it.

[Francoise]

I think you'll get the help you need here. I have seen posted here the advice to take four grams, that's 4,000 milligrams of L-Lysine and 200 milligrams of B6 every other morning on a totally empty stomach and then wait at least an hour before you eat anything.

The thinking, which sounds logical to me, is that opiates replace the brain's natural endorphins and the brain stops making them in favor of the opiates. You stop taking the opiates and there's no endorphins waiting in the wings to step in and make you feel OK. So you feel like **** instead. The Lysine is what your brain needs to make more endorphins and other neurotransmitters; the B6 is a catalyst in that process. I take Lysine and B6 in order to help smooth out the mood swings consequent to taking 100 mg oxycontin twice a day. I take this stuff for nerve-involved spinal injuries, and I suppose I'll never stop unless they find a way to deal with the pain some other way.

Anyhow, I've seen others post the above advice. I know it works in smaller doses for mood swings. It should work for you. If you've gone 64 hours cold turkey, you should be able to kick this stuff. I, for one, will be rooting for you from the sidelines just like Walter Cronkite urging the moon shot off the pad. I, we, all need to see you make it off this ****. I think it helps everyone when anyone beats opiates. Go for it!

Francoise

[cindi]

I am just a little confused...did you mane Lysine or Tyrosine that spook had talked about?   curious as to which one because ironically I was on my way out the door to by the Tyrosien which I know spook recommends 4000 mgs...with the B6   thanks cin

[Wizard]

I think cindi is right it is 4000 mgs of L-Trosine and 200 mg of B-6 on an empty tummy every other day for about a week or so...Lots of water, Imodium (immodium) brand name for sure at any sign of the runs. It worked for me, I'm 19 days clean now and feeling great! Give it a try and DON"T GIVE UP! You CAN do this!  we will be praying for you and monitoring you progress. If you need anything come here for all the support. A lot of great people here with a LOT of experience in all phases of dependence, addiction and recovery.
Magick & Power 2u,
Gods light & peace on you always,
Wizard

Hi Cindi & Francoise! Thanks for getting to G-kar...I read it on the run early and he's been on my mind all day...couldn't post back till now!
Love to you ALL!
Wiz

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Your perdicament is near and dear to my heart!  Honestly, the feeling never quite goes away once addiction has started.  I have tried Tyrosine and B6 and find that it does help with motivation and energy.  You will invariably get through all the physical sides of codiene but possibly never be able to conquer the mental part.  It's sad, I know...but you can do it as have many of us who have preceded you here.  My best advise is the twelve steps of recovery...one at a time and in real time, with a sponsor.  Please check it out!  We could go on and on about our histories here but remember that all the stories end the same way.  Simply put, this is a life and death matter and there's no time like the present to get started on the road to recovery.  I wish you nothing but the best, my friend ,and will always try to help you when you are hurting and need a shoulder to lean on.  J.B.

[cindi]

Hi Again,   I am soooo sorry i was not able to respond to you earlier  i was on my way out of the door,,,,Please,, hang in there...The people on this forum including myself have been there, it can be done perserverance, determination and most of all willingness which is the key word which it sounds to me like you have a ton of willingness...more that i ever had when I got clean..64 hours is great,,,It should all be calming down soon and then the work begins     believe it or not getting clean is the easy part,  staying clean is what is the more difficult part....if you give us a chance here we can hlep you, guide you and offer advice and suggestions based on our experience, hope and strength...what you do with the advice is your call but who to better help you than other people who have been there and done that....my prayers  actually my friends here on the forum won't mind me speaking for them   OUR prayers are with you   keep us posted and good luck my friend   and welcome to the forum    This here is my little piece of Heaven...I have been to different forums and the people here...are wonderful    ok   here it comes,,,,the tears...when I think of the people here it actually brings tears to my eyes because even though I have no faces to go with the names  they are the most compassionate, kind and caring people I have ever met...per se..the weird thing is alot of them know what I am going to say (type) before I even do it....come here, seek their advice, they will not steer you wrong,  JB, Tom, Brighty, Angelica, Diane, they helped me through the most horrific time of my life and they along with my new friends Wiz, Kerrie, Pelle...as well as the others,  I could not ask for better peeple and you won't be sorry either...This, I promise you.....good luck and God bless   Love to all    cin

[Thomas]

You're almost there, but it's L-Tyrosine, not L-Lysine. Otherwise, that's the regime. I'm frankly amazed at how you use the dope, though. You go all day, and then swallow 14 codeine#3 at once! It must feel great when that kicks in! I've always used basically around the clock. If I've got some, why not stay in the space as long as possible?

It will take your brain time to start making its own endorphins. I can only suggest daily aerobic exercise, Valium (the best of the benzos for treating narcotic withdrawal, in my vast experience (unfortunately, no joke intended), hot baths or hopefully hot Jacuzzis as often as you can, and some kind of support group. I go to AA. There is also NA. Most alcoholics are pill junkies, too, so you will get help from either avenue.

Just know that you're a normal, decent human being with the same problem as millions and millions - and millions to come. Don't be ashamed. But take action. Seek out one of these groups. They help more than you can know, even when you're like me -- I love opiates. Not really like them. I LOVE rx narcotics. I have to deal with that daily. Having A.A. has given me strength I didn't have before. I'm still trying to get of Zanax without having a seizure (I've had 3 now), so I'm no AA poster boy. Good luck to you both. Françoise, how is your broken body doing. Healing, I hope.

[Thomas]

JB, my friend, I wanted to tell you that your reply to G,Kar was eloquent, really quite beautiful. You bring a unique quality to this forum. My best to Marty.

All the best

Thomas

[Thomas]

just wanted to say that it's good to read your words ... don't go anyaway anytime soon.

[jennyfla]

I am relatively new to this forum also.  So far, i have been amazed at all the knowledge and support i have found here.
Stay with us, and i think you stand a great chance of success.
I will be joining you soon in trying to win this battle of addiction.
Your words are so familiar to me, hang in there, you can beat this!!!!
You have taken a major step towards beating your addiction, you hate what the pills are doing to you.  Keep hating them, hate them with everything that you've got!
Cling on to everything that brings you happiness in your life (not the pills of course), and focus on all that you have to fight for!!!!!!!  Yourself being the main thing, but think about how your children need a father who is there for them, fully!
You sound like a wonderful person, you are worth the fight!!!!!
Prayers for you!
Lv Jenny

[Angelica]

Long time no see, or maybe I've been distracted. LOL
I don't know if you rem. me, but I've just been put on the Oxy's, and I'll probably get bombarded for this, but they are the only and I mean only thing, that has releived my pain.  
My doctor had to assure me that it was ok......as long as I didn't tamper w/ it. LOL The bottle sat on my shelf for days, I was scared to death to take it Re: the media expose'.  When I took the first one...I sat in a chair and didn't move, fearing I'd have some acid/lsd like trip or something.  Well, 1hr passed, and no euphoria,no high, no side effects whatsoever.  My doctor said true chronic painers will react to it that way, and this means that I have true chronic pain. I only take 1 20mg tablet a day and vicodin for breakthrough.  I've been pain free for 2 weeks now.  So far I havent abused my meds....but maybe we can keep each other in line, and informed. LOL  I heard there are some real problems w/ regulation over this medication.  So we may have to go through the withdrawals together if its taken off the market....LOL  I know that's not too funny.  Anyway this new doctor has decided to leave, and go back to his home town.  So untill I find another dr.  I am only taking one a day.....He prescribed two.  I am doing this so the withdrawals won't be to bad, if I cannot find a new dr. to continue this treatment.  I know this is safe for long term use.  I was worried about liver damage too.  
Best wishes,
Angelica

[Beth]

<font face=comic sans ms, arial, verdana color=navy size=2> <B> I'm sorry to interupt, and I do not mean to be disrespectful to the original poster- I wish you luck and success and faith on your journey...you sound so intellectually sound that I know you will make it!


Anyway I posted here before...when I posted before, I told you all about how I am 20 years old (I'm 21 now.) and my liver, kidneys, and stomach lining are shot due to ALL the acetominiphen and ibuprophen I have been given since the age of 3. One doc, when I was 15, actually PUT me on 2 bottles of excedrine migraine a week. Of course none of this helped the pain in any way whatsoever. I was in constant, awful pain. Then I finally went to a Pain Management doctor this year...and for the first time ever in my life, found relief through Norco, a stronger version of Vicondin/Lortab. At the time I posted, I was taking only three pills per day. But I quickly learned that yes, a drug like this can help me, but I also build up a tolerance to it very quickly. I am up to EIGHT pills a day now for about 80% pain relief. My doc says this is OK, though he doe say 8 is the limit. So my scripts are totally legit and legal, even though I am usually treated like **** by pharmacists who think I'm a faker...so that is not my problem. My problem is dependance. Last week I took myself off the meds for one week to see if I could do it. I did, but it was MISERABLE...I am so worried about when I have to quit. I would eventually like to get pregnant...what happens then? My doc also gave me oxycontin and methodone to try for pain relief and I *hated* both of those, so he says I am not predisposed to addiction if I hated oxycontin after taking it 5 days.

I need to know what others think...should I just deal with the pain and stop alltogther or wait until I have to? I am really at a crossroads here...I can't function with migraine pain, but I don't want to be cought in the web of addiction, either. Right now I'm taking 80 mgs of hydrocodone a day, and 2.6 g of acetominiphen...the limit is 3 g so I am OK there, I think.

Anyway...I am just so confused right now.

Also, I have the WORST problem with people stealing my meds...even in my own house. :-(

[Beth]

<font face="verdana, arial" color="navy">
One more thing I wanted to add- I don't, nor have I ever gotten a "high" from my medicine. I think I am just resistant to stuff like that -a good thing- so there is no "feeling" to miss except for pain relief, when and if I do quit.

Is there a medicine that's *NOT* an NSAID that *DOES* work for pain? (That isn't narcotic, I mean)

[shane]

Hello People, I haven't posted for a while because I've had some dificulties with relapse! I went five full weeks (Talked to you Wiz) and then talked my doc into a refill of Norco 10/325. I tried to limit my intake from 2 to 4 pills aday. In 6 days i'm at three a day and running out. Tom J.B., Will I have to go through the same intense detox as before when I came of of 8 to 10 a day. should I stop right now and will I have lesser symptoms. I am feeling real bad about relapeing for such a short time and not even a high to go with it! anyone tempted by picking up Please head. IT IS NOT WORTH IT! FIGHT TO STAY FREE!  Thanks to all of you for any help! Love and god bless you all. Shane

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

First of all, I'm sorry to hear that you have these problems with your stomache,liver and kidneys. Maybe it's too early in the morning but I didn't see why you needed all this pain medication since the age of three.  

I suffer from chronic liver disease and it feels like being in withdrawals all the time!  I take 20 mgs of oxycodone daily just to stay functional.  It does not make me high, just functional.

After reading many posts on the Chronic Pain Forum, I've come to the conclusion that narcotic pain relievers are the best and safest way to deal with chronic pain. My own doctor believes this is the best way to deal with me and as long as I don't abuse his regime of treatment, I'm fine.  

Am I still an addict? Yes, always.  Am I dependent on narcotics to survive? Definately.  It gets to the point where it's not fun anymore...just a necessity like a good bowel movement. Be prepared to lose a lot of personnal freedom and self esteem in the process of becoming a narcotic dependent person.

To those who consume large amounts of alcohol and Tylenol:  Be advised that Terminal liver and kidney disease is very painful!!!  If you dread withdrawal from any drug; imagine living in that state for the rest of your life!  J.B.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

As always, it's good hearing from you, my friend!  There's been a certain amount of "character building" quality in your posts of late. I imagine it is due to working a good program. If you can stay focused along this line, your true dignity, power and brilliance will only continue to grow in strength. Sobriety like addiction is a progressive thing.  Thank God you have chosen the right side to stay on!  J.B.

P.S.  Marty has been told that there is no more point in treating her cancer....just live in peace!  Each day is a blessing for some of us.  Others act like there's "no tomorrow".

[Angelica]

Please keep us posted RE: Marty.  I appreciate your post a great deal.  I hope you stay w/ us and keep us informed.  I worry about you.  You are right, about how some of us act like there is no tomorrow. This is so true.  I appreciate your straightforwardness.  You too, are a genuine person.  Prayers your way.
LOVE, angelica

[Angelica]

Please keep us posted RE: Marty.  I appreciate your post a great deal.  I hope you stay w/ us and keep us informed.  I worry about you.  You are right, about how some of us act like there is no tomorrow. This is so true.  I appreciate your straightforwardness.  You too, are a genuine person.  Prayers your way.
LOVE, angelica

[Beth]

JB- I have daily, vision-impairing migraines. I can't function with them and the pain is so awful it makes me wish for death. They had me on NSAIDS in large volume from age 3 to age 19 and I NEVER found any pain relief, not even one time.

My doctor says narcotics are the safest way to deal with me, too. I take norco because I am so heavily dependant on tylenol now, but it has a small amount. I don't want to lose any freedom. :-(

[Angelica]

This is why Oxycontin was given to you in the first place.  It has NO tylenol, and can be titrated when needed.  As long as this medication is NOT tampered w/, then there should be no problem.  Now, about people taking your meds.  Well, this is one of the questions the pain dr. asked me.  To prevent diversion.  He asked about everyone in my family.  If there was someone w/ a problem, he couldn't prescribe the mediation. But honesty is also a problem, and doctors cant' read your mind.  
I am going to refer you to a website.....***@**** go to egroups.  If you want a peek at my story,(to spare everyone from IT again) here is a link, although I don't know how to make it hot, so that you can just click on it. Actually go to this thread, : Narcotics for Chronic pain - pixie 4/17/2001 There is a hotlink under annie's post somewhere.  This is my former name. Its starts w/ virtualempire or something.  I haven't been there in a while, so It may not be up anymore.
JB is a good person for you to talk to.  He has liver problems, and is very insightful, and he's been there and back again.
Angelica

[Wizard]

GET BACK IN THE FIGHT! Shane, it's OKAY brother! You were there for me WE are here for you! One of my preveious posts I said about myself "even if relapse is emminent, I will try,try and try again". Shane, you can too! We are human and I think the term is."**** HAPPENS" Keep the faith and all will be okay. I will keep you in my prayers. You have nothing to be ashamed about. Believe in yourself! I tried many times before this time to do it. Fight the "Dragon" and lean on me!
Peace & Light
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard

[shane]

Thanks so much Wiz. It means alot to hear from you at this awful time. I cant beleive I now have to go through all this withdrawal again,And for what? a couple lousy high's. If you ever get tempted Wiz pull this thread up or post a line to me. IT is not worth it. EVER. Hold your ground. I hear your story and I still have hope because you are making it. God bless you and I'll be thinking of you. Peace to you Wiz, and God bless all of you dealing with this terrible desease.  Shane

[Wizard]

You do the same dude! Every time the "Dragon" calls come HERE like I do. It's how I keep him at bay. PLEASE keep me posted on your progress. I'm in your corner and rooting / praying for you.
Magick & Power 2 U,
Wiz

[Francoise]

Hey, it's good to see you post.

Yep that oxycontin is very good for people in chronic pain. I don't believe that the gummint will try to outlaw that drug. It is too good for the people who need it. And besides, I don't believe I could go through the withdrawal. I think I'd off myself within the first 24 hours.

I'm still on the same hundred mg twice a day I've always been on. And I plan on staying that way. I fooled around with it for a while and when I decided to get back to the amount prescribed and no more, it kicked my butt for seven endless months. I'd rather be dead than go through that again.

Francoise

[Angelica]

Smart move!  One thing I've learned is never to take my pain for granted, therefore respecting the medication.  I had tried to live w/ the pain (constant aches sometimes severe), but my husband said I was wearing down, and withdrawing from life.  He had never told me he felt that way about me, untill these last few weeks, when I started to MOVE again.  LOL  I hadn't even realized that I was withdrawn.  This is what learning to live w/ the pain did to me.  
Re: the gammut.....maybe they won't remove the medication from the market, but doctors may become reluctant to prescribe it.  Taking all of these issues into consideration, I am being very reserved w/ it.  I know withdrawals are a nightmare......just listen to our fellow forum friends here.  I feel for them, and what they have gone through over this medication.
Keep in touch!
Angelica

[pelle1985]

You may not know who I am, Shane, but I have been posting here for a few months, trying to share what small amount of knowledge I may have in hopes of helping someone.  With your posts today, you have helped me more than you may ever know.  My clean date is January 10, 2001, from large amounts of hydro.

This last week or so has been very difficult.  My wife is in her finals week of school and under massive pressure, with papers to write, our 2 kids to handle when I am at work, and, of course, me.  I have been a big problem myself because I seem to have completely lost my serenity this past week, and instead of just listening to her, I have been snapping back with a vengeance, truly out of control.  This frightens me a great deal.  I am also experiencing a return of the symptoms of my depression, for which I had been in treatment off and on since 1993.  With all this, naturally, came a desire to use again.  I know that if I do so I will die, but as miserable as I have been feeling lately, this in itself did not seem so bad, except for how much it would suck for my kids (five and a half year old daughter and six-month old son).  The only thing keeping me from use and death lately has been what it would do to them.  I fear, however, that unless I seek some help, this will cease to matter as well after a time.

Which is what I plan to do -- but even so, I'm truly afraid.  Afraid of getting a shrink who even after I tell him my problem will try to hit me up with Xanax or Klonopin or some ******* thing that will drag me down and that I won't be strong enough to say "No."  Shane, everyone here who already knows/knows of me, all I ask is one thing tonight -- your prayers and positive energy.  The one other time I asked you all for help I felt better the very next day -- the result was not lost on me, nor should it be on you.  Your good will can work wonders on this earth.  And Shane, for you in particular, I pray tonight, my brother -- I have been there and done that and it takes more guts to return than to go away.  You are always welcome here, whatever your circumstance.  My thanks go to all here who participate and care for those whom they have never met but by this forum alone.  God bless you all.

Peace,
Pelle

[quiggles]

What is "LOL"?

[Wizard]

Quickly for Quigles..LOL...means laughing out loud..I used to think it meant LOTs of Love..So when I thought I was giving out cyber Love I was really Laughing..Caused all kinds of trouble..Ain't tht the shits..ROTFLOL!

Pelle, you GOT to hang in there man! I know what you feel like...I had many a day where I felt like not going on..just wanted to off myself...but for the LOVE of GOD, my children and my loving wife I didn't do it...Now that I've been clean for almost 3 weeks or so after years of the "Dragon" I pray my thanks every day to God that I didn't let the ******* take me down. This forum and all the "angels"  on it kept me going. I know it was Divine providence that brought me here. When I'm feeling down man, I come and read and re-read some more...takes back to where I belong..not where I've been in a way...I hope you understand what I mean....Even though we never met....I don't want to be missing ya......you DO what you gotta DO to GET RIGHT...not just for you, but for your kids and wife...we are all here for you dude. I'm praying like a mother right now for ya. There is a light....I'm focused on it....you WILL be there too....God Bless you and your family...

Shane, you see....Pelle is talking to you! I told you we needed ya..there it is.....you stick around too or the Wizard is gonna send a lightning bolt to wake you up LOL! Man, looking back the kicking ain't nothing compared to STAYING off the ****...That's the hard part I know but with all of us helping to pick up the pieces when we fall....hell, what an army we ARE!
I'm praying for you too man.......
Peace and Light on ya!
Power & Magick 2U,
Wizard

[Wizard]

All of you jump in here PLEASE! Pelle needs some rightous support! As we all do...You all have lifted me up and now I want to give it back to all of you who are hurting....We ALL gotta hang in there...Try,TRY and TRY AGAIN...as many time as it takes The Light is there just reach out for it Pelle...You too Shane!

God Bless us ALL,
Wiz

[Thomas]

From what you say, you've still got a few Vics to work with. If you have the self-control and want to do this the easy way, I'd work out a taper schedule and bring yourself down 1/2 a pill a at a time. Combine some daily aerobic exercise (a vigorous walk or bike ride will do), and you can resolve this misadventure with a minimum of pain. Of course, if you're like me, you can't taper. If you have it, you take it at full strength to at least get a high, then you're faced with cold turkey withdrawal. If you have the discipline to taper with what you've got left, even if that means taking half a pill a couple times a day till they're gone, that would be the least painful way out. It's up to you, my friend. Best of luck to you.

[Thomas]

I think you experience people caring for one another on this forum because we share so much in pain and sometimes shame and ostracism because of our respective conditions. I don't want to become known as the guy who constantly promotes AA, but when I was the closest to relapsing, it was a meeting or a call from a fellow AA member that kept me sane and sober for at least another day. It's not a magic formula and doesn't work all the time, but people like us can and do give each other strength simply by listening and relating. It's the shame that you have to defeat. Society has convinced itself that drug addiction, growing out of whatever circumstances, is not a medical problem but the result of low morals and a lack of "character," whatever that is. Shame keeps us from asking for help much sooner than most of us ever do. However you resolve your moment of temptation, know that you have every right to hold your head up high like anyone else. You're a decent, humane human being with needs and weaknesses and pressures like everyone else. Shame is the great toxin that sickens us all, that keeps us suffering in silence until it's impossible to remain silent. Shame is the great killer, not drugs. All my best to you.

Peace.

Thomas

[susanlea]

Pelle remember how many times, when I have been down and depressed and didn't think I could snap out of it, well you were always there for me, giving me answers and advice and it always seemed right. You told me to do what I had to do for my kids, not to let him(addict boyfriend) back in to ruin their lives? Well Pelle look at your beautiful son and daughter! Watch them as they sleep, don't think for a minute about anything else because they are what it's ALL about! You've had a bad week, it's ok no ones perfect, it's allowed. You have come so so far....you can beat this! Look at your wife, she has been there always, maybe things weren't always great, but she Never Left You. Maybe she was silent, but she loved you, had faith in you, and she still does, she's still there! She needs you and your children need you to be a husband and a father. I know you're not real keen on antidepressents, but I have to tell you, when I was going through all that stress, anxiety, the whole works his addiction made me want to give up, and not go on...you told me do it for the children. I started taking something called EFFEXOR, I've tried other antidepressents before, never liked them, either drowsy, couldn't function.....this on worked for me like a charm, it's pretty mild.  Takes the edge off a bit, but what it helps with was the compulsion to yell, stress out. I was able to handle things easier.  It helped with my contant obsession.  Ask your Dr. It's not addictive, and when you don't need it anymore you don't have to wean off.  Please just sit back, take a deep breath, look at the stars, if you like jazz, there' a great new CD out by a friend of mine.  Jaared Foreword, it's great,  you can download it on the web. It will make you feel good, go to http:/www.jaared.com or http://www.marimelj.com        Peace be with you, my thoughts are with you,  and we all love you here.........Susan Lea

[Wizard]

Thomas, you always seem to have the right words at the right time. Your response to Pelle fits for ALL of us. I know I've thanked you many times for myself. Again I thank you for your wisdom and compassion. Compassion is something that sometimes is very foreign to those of us with addiction problems..To bad society has not learned from it's mistakes....you are very right in that we take care of our own here...I say peace to you also my brother.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard

[Angelica]

Even from where I'm sitting, that is so true.  Usually the ones doing "shaming" to others, have never been in their shoes, or don't have the ability to put themselves there.  As you once said, these things have a way of coming back to bite you in the A**.  True, so true!
Love yA,
Angelica

[Angelica]

In addition to my last statement, hopefully, society will come full circle.

[Deja]

H everyone - my internet service was boofed up for a couple of days and I was cut off from access, how annoying! Anyway -

G'kar- hang in there! That really bad feeling will pass.  Listen to Wizard and the others, they are doing great.  Me - I did it 2 weeks ago and the first few days were really uncomfortable but I followed the advice given in former posts and it really helped.
Hot baths, immodium and some valium (or any benzo) will get you through the worst. In my experience I found it better to only use the benzo when I absolutely felt as if I would lose it.  The worst for me was the mental fog and the stress on my body from the anorexia that set in.  Make sure you drink lots of fluids with no caffien-  the caffien will counteract what you are trying to do which is keep yourself from dehydrating.  

To Everyone Else,
I saw my rhematologist today. My left foot is hot and swollen beyond belief and the pain - well - just intolerable.  She said the joints in my foot are in bad shape and so are my hands.  I am staying OFF the oxy but I made the decision to go back on regular Vicodin- max 4 a day.  I am not copping out here, I want you to know that.  I seriously need pain relief that I am not getting from Tylenol or Advil.  So - there it is. I made her aware of my dependance and the withdrawal and she said that if I keep it to 4 a day I should be fine.  I only took 2 today and I actually got relief.  I have never gotten a buzz from my pain meds and I thought after 2 weeks with nothing I would at least feel something - but all it did was bring the level of my pain down from an 8 (10 being the worst) to a 4 which I can live with.  

I am going to do this until this flare is under control - then stop again until the next flare, which is the nature of my disease.  

I almost felt like a failure and a weak person - but I needed this relief.  

Please - all of you who are still clean and fighting to stay there- my thoughts and prayers are with you.

Love,
Deja

[Dee]

As always this 'family' has given wonderful support and information to G'kar, Beth and everyone else...not to bore everyone,hopefully some will remember some of my story..addicted to oxy's,abusing them ect ect..right now Iam in a terrible mental state..God I can't even tell it like I want to..(unable to think)right now Iam in a semi withdrawal from a very high amount of oxy's..please bear with me I will post again and maybe be able to get it out little by little..I'm a little shakey right now..please say a pray for me..
Angelica, I feel that you are a very responsible person, but please, please be careful with your oxycontin..my heart actually felt a little heavy as I was reading that you started on them,even though I know that you need them..I'm just scared for you..I know this is not making much sense, I'm sorry....my thoughts are with everyone...
Dianne

[cindi]

My prayers are with you..I do know a little about your history with your health and medication...are you able to taper down off the oxys or did you just run out?  maybe you can call the doc and get something to take the edge off?  I don't know if you should be doing the cold turkey dance given your medical history    I think we discussed this once before...I don't want to get into that and break confidentiality as I am not real sure if you talked about that on this forum openly or not  but just know I am here, we are here for you   God bless you   love cin

[Brighty]

LOL = laughing out loud
lmao = laughing my ass off
rofl = rolling on the floor laughing
btw= by the way
imho =in my humble opinion

generally abbreviations for phrases to indicate how a statement is meant . There may be a web site for all of these, I am not sure. There are so many more. I had to ask like you did !
Love, Brighty

[cindi]

HTW     (hey there woman  )  LOL   how about ROFLMAO  rolling on floor laughing my ass off...and yes there is a website for this lingo and emoticons and smiley's  if i can find it i'll send it   i did see it once in passing     later tater   \o/  (angel)

[dee dee]

G-Kar you have come to the right place for help, i have been checking here for a few months now because of a similar problem and there are some great people with wonderful advise here.I have been trying to cut back on on an addiction of hydrocordone's for the last couple of months now. Just as i think i'm starting to conquer it, bam i'm back to square one. but i found out my Dr. is retireing at the end of this month, so i have to start tapering now.Diane i'm so sorry to hear your having problems, are you the one that everyone was getting confused with me?I'm leaving for sacramento for a few days, I wish the best of luck to all of you and stay safe. DeeDee

[dee dee]

I forgot to ask this on my last post. I know thomas or spook will know this for sure. What is the difference between oxycontins and hydrocordones?Are they stronger than vicodins or norco? and are they harder to get off of?A long time ago a Dr. gave me an rx for them and when i went to get it filled the girl at the pharmacy looked concerned and said this was script 3 whatever that means and mentioned it was a very potent drug.I knew this girl that is the only reason she mentioned this to me. well i was alarmed and read all the info that came with the rx and it scared me so i put it aside for the longest time and finally threw it away. From what i'm hearing, i'm so glad i didn't get hooked on those to.

[cindi]

Oxycontins are a timed release oxycodone which is the ingredient found in Percocet...they  come in various strenghts  10 mg, 20, 40 80 etc...they are made to be swallowed whole but people get off on them by crushing, chewing, snorting, shooting..the ingredient in Vicodin is Hydrocodone and tylenol of course vicodin regular str. has 5 mg of hydrocodone and tylenol  vicodin es has 7.5 hydrocodone and tylenol and the Norco is 10 mg of hydrocodone and less tylenol then the vics  I think it has 325 mg of tylenol. Oxycontin and vics taken the right way are very good pain medication  is oxycontin harder to get off?  I would assume it is but I have never had to come off of them...they are a schedule 2 narcotic on the controlled substance list where Vicodin etc.  is a schedule 3....they all have different classifications...I think there is a website that explains all that to you,,,,that is just a basic they taught us in nursing school but of course 20 years ago oxycontin was not around...  just remember...people are always so worried (media hype) about getting addicted to these various pain meds...they were invented for a reaon   to control pain..It is our right and it is included in the patients bill of rights that they be made comfortable...and when we take these meds for any length of time we stand the chance of becoming "dependant"  and if they are working to control pain, therefore improving the quality of one's life then y bother to stop?  this is a question I often ask  anyway  ok   i am starting to ramble.....I hope this clears any questions up for you     take care    Love to all cin

[Thomas]

1) Sometimes, not always, but sometimes it helps to ask your doctor to recommend a pharmacy and even a pharmacist by name to take your Rx's to. That's what I did at one time and it made a world of difference. My doc had a pharmacy in the same medical complex as his office run by a pharmacist who had known my doctor since their college days. I never had any problem getting my scripts filled when I went that route. You might try that.

2) May I respectfully suggest that, if you're having chronic, debilitating migraines requiring narcotics to treat the pain, having a child is about the last thing you need. Remember, once you're pregnant, there's no going back. You're stuck without the ability to take medication for nine long months!!! Think very carefully before you embark on a voyage from which their is no return or change of mind possible. Once you're PG, baby, migraine or not, you're off the hydrocodone or anything else that will help. Ask yourself, can you really do that? Everyone doesn't have to have kids, you know. You're not just a baby-making machine.

My advice is don't go near pregnancy until you're over your pain issues and legitimately off the narcotics. You know, thinking of the baby, you suffering intense, unrelieved pain of migraines will in itself generate a tremendous amount of stress, and, I'm not sure where, but I've read that chronic stress affects the development of the fetus. What do you want to put yourself through that for? Also, an alternative to constant Tylenol ingestion with the hydrocodone might be to alternate Norco/Vicodin with one the aspirin-based hydro versions like Anexia-D or Damson-P. It might give your liver a break. Of course, aspirin has its own hazards ... but you know, I've heard of doctors being able to prescribe pure hydrocodone pills on triplicate rx's. You have to go to the hospital to get it filled, but it can be done.

Well, nuff said. But put the baby on hold til your migraines are under control. You don't need to be making a baby to be a worthwhile member of society!!

[Thomas]

there is a new NSAID, called a Cox-2 inhibitor (or is it one?) that provides the same kind of pain relief as other NSAIDs without damaging the stomach. It's expensive. You might have to get your doc to write your insurance and insist you can't take the conventional NSAIDs.

Am I correct in assuming you're dealing with migraines? Because if they're real migraines, there are legitimate, migraine-specific drugs, available in inhalers and self-injectors, that work specifically on the cause of the migraines rather than the pain itself. Imitrex is one you can self-inject (and I think there's even a pill now). They say, if it's a true classic migraine, the Imitrex working is considered one way of actually confirming they're really migraines.

There's also Ultram, which despite some rather hysterical commentaries on this forum, is quite a good painkiller. It's technically non-narcotic but it has a narcotic-like action (and addiction potential). It works slowly, sometimes is helped by a loading dose, but once it starts working, it lasts longer than Vics or codiene. And, of course, there is no tylenol or aspirin.

Another way to go for pain relief is with a Stadol inhaler. They cost big bucks but they give you an instant dose of some petty strong painkiller. Check out Stadol on www.rxlist.com. It's considered more powerful than hydro or codeine or NSAIDs. I used to have migraines and the Stadol inhaler worked quite well.

Good luck…

[Thomas]

that NSAID is called Celebrex, by the way. NSAIDs have never worked for me at all so I'haven't tried this one either.If I had migranes that came iout of nowhere I'd have two things at the ready: the Imitrex (injector or, I think, sub-linqual), and the Stadol inhaler. Stadol is considered to be be quite a powerful painkiller, so you can expect some fast relief from it.

[cindi]

Oh My gosh, I can't believe I missed your post,,,,I know where you are  I have been there before and the worst thing in the world after we get clean to to be clean and Unserene...Are you ready for my take on things?  who knows  I may get slammed but it's not like it's never happened before....we in general,  human beings cannot possibly expect to live happily ever after, be serene 24/7, we have good days, we have bad days,, good weeks bad weeks,,we snap at people, we cry, we yell, Hell I even throw things,,(not always a good thing and I don't recommend this but it happens) the problem occurs when the symptoms become so bad they scare you,,,which is obviously the case... you know you,,youu know how you feel  you say this has happened before and you did get help...and you do understand that you need to seek help again...the thought of dying etc.  this scares me that you are thinking this way....i am a little confused aobut you not wanting to take any medication if it helps you....you say it drags you down but what if it helps you instead? just like pain medication was invented for a reason so was every other medication invented for a reason ...including Xanax and klonopin...just because we are addicts does not mean we have to play martyrs...we do suffer from ailments be them physical or mental that do require mood altering medication.. if you were diabetic would you refuse insulin or if you were bi-polar would you refuse lithium?  talk to a doc, or a few docs, see what they recommend....usually I can say this too shall pass but in some cases this won't pass without being treated...My prayers are with you  hang in there my friend...God Bless you.....love to all cin

[Angelica]

.......I know where your coming from.  It's nice to know someone's worried about me.....I usually do the worrying.LOL (laugh out loud...for quiggles  :)) I am only on 20mg once a day..he told me to take it twice a day.  I was so scared when I first took it....I sat in a chair and didn't move.....LOL
I am being very honest when I tell you that I had NO high from it.  Just 6 sheer hours of pain relief.  I do know (RE: this forum) that I am on my way to dependance......since I am now on stronger medication.  I know you guys will keep me in line!  This is why I'm hear, so that I will be in a reality state of mind everyday........this forum is full of reality.  Thanks a bunch!
love,
ANgelica

[Angelica]

Just my 2 cents: I aggree w/ Thomas.  I will not even consider having another baby......I suffered tremendously for the last one......NO MEDICATION....MORE pain.  Just think long and hard about this.  You do have many years ahead, for more babys, don't you? If you don't mind me asking?

[pelle1985]

Cindi, Lea, Thomas, Wizard, and anyone else I forgot, or whose prayers are with me even if unspoken:

Thank you all again.  It means so much to me that you all took time to write to/think of/pray for me.  Just so you know, today was a much better day than the previous one.  Not perfect, but I don't expect that.  Just better.

I have no desire to kill myself, directly or indirectly, now, nor have I for quite awhile.  The thoughts pass through my mind at the times I am in severe emotional pain, as I'm sure they do through everyone's -- but I could not bear to do that to my daughter, who practically worships me (as faulted as I am), my infant son (who would never have the chance to know me at all), and my wife (who, although we have done what seems terminal damage to each other and our marriage, still loves me, wants me to be well, and wants us to repair our damage and stay together).

Yes, like everyone who has been down this road, I realize that I have to completely change almost my entire life and behaviors up to this point if I want to remain clean and get well -- to become who I really am.  With four months gone by and the assurance that the changes are visible and have begun, I know also that much work lies ahead.

I have been on antidepressants before (1993-1998 or so) and for a time they did help me.  What the problem likely was is that while abstinent from drugs and alcohol, I worked no program of changes on any other aspect of my life, and my addiction simply resurfaced as abuse of money, power, sex, and many other things, I'm sure.  This time, when I go into therapy (as I have decided I will, and will be calling my HMO Monday to get the ball rolling), I will also be willing to make the kind of wholesale changes I need to make in order for my therapy and any medications to work properly.  Cindi -- I didn't mean to cast Klonopin or even Xanax in a negative light -- I have bad associations with stealing and abusing Klonopin and even of the time and circumstances in my life surrounding its prescription to me (August 1997).  I'm sure that this has affected my view of it as well as Xanax, which although I never seriously abused, was one of the things I tried years ago.  And due to some seriously messed-up things I did which seem totally out of character for me, there is one drug (which I will not name, as it has helped many) I was prescribed by my psychiatrist that I absolutely will not go near again.  Whether or not it affected my personality the way I think it has I will likely never know -- but I know that my perception of it, logical or not, will prohibit it from helping me in the future.

Again, thanks to all.  You are in my thoughts and prayers ever as well.

Peace,
Pelle

[Angelica]

I have a post for you in the "Oxycontin" thread.

[Kerrie]

Hi,
A lot of you won't know me on this thread.But I came to this forum seeking help for my 22 year old daughter addicted to hydros and more.To make a long story short, I am the one that's been helped. I am a chronic pain sufferer with a rare disease and many health problems.I too have to take pain meds daily for any quality of life.I suffered for years because of the stigma associated with people that aren't dying taking pain meds. I've never abused them but was still made to suffer because doctors were afraid of the medical boards that are accountable too or else the doctors are just ignorant to people needing pain meds in the absence of cancer or terminal illness. After coming here I learned alot and sought out to find a doctor that believed in pain controll for chronic pain sufferers.He taught me the difference in dependance and addiction.Just like my friends on this forum have.I wanted to get your attention Beth because my daughter started out on pain meds to treat migrains. She quickly began to use them for the high and not for thier intended purpose.She is now taking as much as she can of hydros and many others. She can be very convincing.She has stollen my pain meds.She has gone from doctor to doctor to get more and more.I'm not accusing you of doing this. The thing I wanted to say to you is this hon. I read you are wanting a baby. I can't tell you how important this is Beth. Pregnancy can increase migrain pain. My daughter and my daughter in law both suffer. Both had babies recently.My daughter was due in January but the baby was born in November.He was small and pitiful.Thank God he survived. My daughter in law was due in March and had a c-section in March to deliver.He was healthy and big!!!! My daughter could not stand the headaches and she never gave up the pills. The baby suffered for it. My daughter in law would of died before she would of jeopardized the baby. I can tell you want to do what's right.Please take into consideration how bad your headaches are now and ask yourself and search your heart ,can you honestly handle the pain without your meds if you get pregnant? Have you ever had an MRI to see why your headaches are so bad? I sufered from childhood as you did.When I was 35 I suddenly went paralized in the legs. They found a very large cyst on my spinal chord. The surgeon said it was there since childhood and was the culprit for my headaches. If you've never had any tests, ask for them.Please if your going to get pregnant, get off the pills first.My friends on this forum will be here daily for you and you'll be in my prayers. I'm so thankful you have the desire to do what is right. I only wish my daughter would do the same.
  As a wise friend said recently,"one moment at a time". To those that are working so hard to quit, God Bless you.Your families will love you more than you can know. Don't kick yourself for relapse. It is human to err.Just keep trying.Your in my prayers.
    God Bless you All,
         Kerrie

[Need 2B Free]

How long does it take to detox completely from Oxycontin? I've been taking aroun 6-12 20mg daily.  I've made it 5 days once but the "**** feeling" never went away.  How long before I just feel normal again?  Will I feel normal again?  I am so sick and tired of going through this every other month. Pray for me please give me advice please.  I'v got 35 20mg's left. How should I tapper them? Be exact please.  I went back the last time just to feel normal.  Not even for the high, JUST ******* NORMAL THAT'S IT. MAN I'M SCARED GOD BLESS YOU ALL

[susanlea]

First of all I'm not an addict, my boyfriend(ex now because of his addiction)was. So I can only give you my point of view. He was taking somewhere in the neighborhood of over 360mg of oxy's aday, and about 7 to 10 perc's 650's. After doing this for over a year he got to the point he was sick with withdrawals all the time. He could not take enough pills to even get to the point where he could eat dinner or take a shower. He had tried weaning with no success. Finally he went to a hospital for detox, they gave him clonodine and methadone the first 48 hours along with trazadone to help him sleep which he couldn't because of the joint and leg pain and constant twitching. Along with detox he had to go to meetings all day, couseling, eat right and be checked by a Dr.during these 5 days. When he came out he said he went through hell and never wanted to do the pills again. He started feeling better, eating alot, sleeping and was able to work. He also got somewhat back to his old self.  He had to attend 12 step meetings for 12 weeks, had a great sponser and family and friends there for him, who loved him.  Somewhere around the 6th week, I noticed he was getting agitated, mean, reculsive, distant.  He had relapsed. This was a year ago yesterday the 19th. He lied about it became abusive, this went on until the 1st week of December. All those months I begged and pleaded, and so did my kids for him to go back into detox. He said he could do it himself. Well the 1st week of Dec. He went out of control and hurt my son. That was it! I told him, rehab or out.  He chose out. 2 weeks later he's back, telling me he was weaning down. Of course he was, I didn't have anymore pills and he couldn't get much from the Dr.  He spent the whole month of Feb. sick in bed with withdrawals. He went to the Dr. and got methadone, not a clinic.  He takes around 90mg or more aday of methadone, he runs out early. He now has withdrawals worse than the oxy's until he gets more.  But the only difference is he's not here again.  He left 10weeks ago. No Program, no detox-rehab no couseling, no different, just a different drug.  The point I'm trying to make.  With the best intentions and courage and strength, sometimes you need help. Everyone here has tried to wean at least once. It's not impossible, but pretty close. Relapse is too easy. Everyone is human, and we don't like pain. I'm not an addict, and I'm not a proffessional. But from what I've seen and the one's who have made it that I have seen, did so with the proper help. If you can't do it on your own, God will help......but even God needs help once in awhile.....Good Luck and God Bless..........Love Susanlea

[2befree]

I can't believe this has happened to me...I am addicted to Vicodin ES.  It started 2 1/2 years ago for pain I was having after rupturing 2 disks.  I have a 5 year-old child and am a full time student now. This drug is from the pit of Hell, has made my life worse then the pain was.  I feel lazy, depressed and am not doing well in school.  The only thing I am doing half way decent is being available to my child...yet I wonder about that sometimes.  I got off Vicodin for 4 days once and found myself in so much pain I took 2 pills thinking to myself this will be it.  Yeah right!

     I injured my back at work and have future lifetime medical, and am wondering if they might pay for me to detox,since they are paying for the meds I have become addicted to.  Does anyone know about this?

I cannot belive how strong the pull of this drug is.  I feel like a smoker, in that when I am stressed, happy or have "ANY" strong emotion, I take a pill or 2.  I hate myself for it!

     I am not in control, I hate being weak and feel like this drug is like an abusive relationship.  In the beginning they make all sorts of promises, tell you how they will make you feel wonderful, tell you all sorts of nice things, make you feel great to be with them. Even your friends notice a change in you.  They say, you seem so much happier and outgoing, you begin to feel like you are the life of the party!  Time passes and you have become dependent on them, and WHAM! It starts...you feel you are nothing without your drug, it tells you, "look at you, how pathetic you have become, your nothing without me, you might as well just stay inside alone with me, no one else would want you."  Yuck, and to think I have avoided anymore bad relationships only to have one come in the shape of a white pill.

     I want this craving to stop! I hope you all will give me advise on how to do it.  I know I cannot do it alone.  I am going to go to a 12-step program, plus I am in therapy.

I am so happy to have found you all, to know I am not alone.  I hope and pray we all will find the strength to get off the drugs that have lied to you and held you captive.
Thank You ALl!

[Brighty]

Dear Pelle,

You have been the voice of reason and the one reliable chord of recovery on this board the past few months. It took me a while to reply to you because I did not know what to say... I am not an addict and never wish to project that I can know... but to the extent that I live with addiction and now recovery and have been to nearly 200 NA meetings, family support and this board I hope you will accept my thoughts. To me this is your honesty and integrity coming forward to ask for help... to admit your pain and illustrate for all of us the reality of this disease... my daughter tried suicide so many times that I wondered if I would become numb to it eventually... and I know that the thought of death seems to be the one sure way out... your head is on ok.. it doesn't matter why you choose to fight and to choose life as long as you DO... and you mentioned the kids... whatever reason you come up with is valid. This too will pass... I guess we all have to accept that part of recovery and healing is self doubt.. realizing that the beast is only napping.. and I honestly believe that it will eventually be slain.. totally and completely. There may have to be a few battles with it to allow it to know who is in charge. Every time you pick yourself up you get stronger.. more sure footed.. everytime you accept love from those who support you  a bit more fear is destroyed within you. I know you will be fine... I am only one small person with no special abilities... but you asked for prayers and healing energy to be sent your way.... it is streaming to you even as you sleep !!! Be well Pelle.... you are a light bearer.. in this world of pain your children will need to know how to deal with the demons on the playground, behind the library and face it with assurance.. that their dad knows the truth and to listen to him... I think you know it's worth fighting the good fight.
Love, Your friend Brighty

[Brighty]

Thank you for the beautiful font via your cool talent with html... so good you are back sweet young lady !! Forgive my short post to you ... it is filled with hope, love, and prayers all sent your way. Love, Brighty

[cindi]

I think I may be a little confused  are you addicted to oxy's and Vicodin Es or am I mixing you up with someone else  i saw to posts above i thought were from you..anyway...as far as getting back to feeling normal,,,i cannot speak from experience as far as lack of energy etc,,,10 or 11 years ago I detoxd from a very bad demerol/morphine habit  actually it was a combo of about 8 different drugs demerol being my drug of choice  i was in a treatment center  and I can honestly say that after my2 week stay in detox ended i felt born again and the same after ii detoed at home form some other stuff about 6 years ago...i felt alive all over again  I did have a brush with depression a few years ago but i was lucky enough to have pulled out of that also..anyway,,,tapering has to be done slowly and with a frim committment to do it...i have not have good luck with the tapering method  one time i did manage to do it because another treatment center was out of the question and I knew i was going to be arrested at any time (5 months later ) nad was not about to do it in a jali cell...Tapering needs a very strong committment...is a treatment center feasible  even if it just for detox and not a month long stay?  how about outpatient?  are you able to cal your doc, and be honest tell him what is going on?  some people I know have a certain amout of "alloted" pills each day and it seems to work....sure there is some degree of discomfort..even with tapering...you probably will feel like **** but not to the degree as if you were doing the cold turkey schuffle how about 12 step meetings?  NA AA?  these meeting are not for everybody  you have to give them an honest try and see if they work for you..NA has always worked for me as long as I went to the meetings and was there 100% and gave it my all, not just there sitting in a chair...as far as cravings,,I to am lucky in that respect that my cravings were intense for a short period of time and then I was really ok,  when i would get a craving it would pass.  BUT<<<IF I POPPED EVEN 1/2 OF ANYTHING INTO MY MOUTH that was it,,,the obsession kicks in..people have different ways of controlling cravings...some pary, sime divert theri attention to something else..call people on the phone, keep a journal as to what triggered these cravings etc...these are all things that are different for everybody...Thomas has a "TRIED And TRUE method for detoxing fmom HYdrocodone if I find the thread i'll post again and let you know where it is..also as far as a lcak of energy   alot of people here have been using this L-Tyrosine and Vitamin B6...on a  empty stomach take 4000 mg..(tyrosine comes in 500 mg tabs so you will need 8 caps)and 100 mg of B6 to potentiate the action of the tyrosine  and that should make you feel mosre energetic..it is a natural amino acid that we produce,  and from what i have read from Thomas it acts upon our nueotramsmitters to replenish our body's endorphins that we have messed up by the use of narcotics...thus allowing us to feel human again....(thomas, please I am incorrect jump in)  also some people swear by this NADH..i did try the tyrosine, the first time i did nothing  the 2nd time it did work...at tany rate...all of this takes time, the cravings, the detox,,,etc...and I always, always say, take it one day at a time, one minute or even once second at a time....we did not become addicted overnight, so it will not take one night to over come this...addiction is a disease that connot be cured, it can be arrested and treated,,,,just like diabetes, etc...getting clean is uncomfortable but it is the easy part.staying clean is the hard part but..it can be made easier through many various means  ...Hang in there and Good luck      hope this helps you some way    love to all  cin

[cindi]

I had no idea you about your problems with Klonopin   please  forgive me  I did not think you cast a bad light on those drugs but as addicts etc. there are alot of things that we "cast" out of our lives in order to be ok...I myself am like that with demerol...even though it is a bood pain medication i don't want to even see it...so i do understand ...but like I said so much stuff out there, good medicinal properties that utilized in a way such as with a good solid program of recovery and/or therapy do work wonders....I am glad today is better...I have been down the emotional highway toll road..and I know it is not a picnic...God luck to you my friend and May God be with you and your precious family      love to all    cin

[Beth]

Hi guys, I guess I mistakenly posted that I wanted a baby <i>yesterday</i>...not so! I mean in ten years, maybe. Every woman in my family who had these migraines has outgrown them in their 30's, so I am hoping that is what will happen to me.

When I was 11, I was raped and became pregnant and wanted to give the baby up for adoption. But he died shortly after birth...I miss him, even though I was going to give him up anyway. I was heavily pressured to abort, which I would never consider, and I believe that knowing I was giving someone a chance at life is what was healing in terms of the rape trauma. I know not everyone would agree with my descision but it was right for me. Since my pregnancy, I have something called hyperprolactineama, which is the body's complete inability to stop producing breastmilk, even after shots and medicine that usually work on other people. Before I started opioid treatment this year, I donated milk to babies who were ill- formula and artificial infant nutrition can kill sick babies- and my love for children and the innocence of new life was only increased, then. I took a foster baby when I was 19 and had him for 8 months...I had constant pain then, too, but he was a healing joy in my life. I know that a child is not a fly-by-night descision. I would never have a baby without knoing for certain that I was ready, could handle the pain or found a medicine that was safe to take in moderation during pregnancy, and knew without a doubt that I was ready to devote enough time and attention to raising someone who would change the world.

Also, to the person whose daughter stole her meds and got addicted after taking them for migraines, I have never gotten a "high" off my medication and actually flushed a bottle of oxycottin down the toilet because I didn't like it. I believe I am not predisposed to addiction, in fact since I originally posted, I moved down my dose of hydrocodone by half. (4 pills per day.) I do have pain, but I just am not comfortable taking that much medicine...I'd like to get back to just 3 a day so we'll see.

And <font color="yellow"><blink>BRIGHTY</blink><font color="navy">....you are so sweet! I am so glad to see you!!!

[Beth]

Tom- (And sorry everyone for the blinding yellow on the board...my fault! I just wanted to do Brighty's name in yellow...)

I forgot to address some of your medicine issues- I have tried all of the migraine speicifc drugs, used the pee out of stadol and imitrex (neither worked at ALL) and also tried a HUGE variety of blood pressure meds that some doctor swore would help me. I was also put on a truckload of propranalol every day- all completely in vain AND like throwing cash out the window, since I don't have insurance.

Anyway, treatment with opioids was the VERY last road for me to take...I tried everything else, even some whacko stuff like having my jaw broken and realigned, and having this numbing spray to squirt up my nose and then stand on my head...I mean I tried *everything*.

[Kerrie]

Hi Beth,
   I was the one telling you about my daughter. I as in no way accusing you Beth. Just trying to give you a bit of my history and how I came to know anything about this forum and hydros and so on...
  Anyway, my concern for you was how you didn't mention if you have ever had any tests to see rule out any other reason for the headaches. Because of how young I was when mine started and never a test one done,I'm concerned for anyone with headaches.They said I had had the cyst on my spinal chord since childhood. They would get better at times and they said it was because the cyst would drain. I even had like bubbles run in my head.I could feel them go up from my neck.I was treated like I was crazy untill I suddenly went paralized in my legs. The cyst was 6 inches long when it was found. get this. My husband took me to the emergency room when I went paralized and they did an x-ray of my back ,said it was normal and sent me home !!  That was on Sunday afternoon. By Monday I could feel my legs again but couldn't walk. By Thursday, the neurosurgeon I was seeing for headaches was dojng emergency surgery on me.
   I was concerned if you got pregnant now you wouldn't be able to take meds for your headaches.I was just trying to explain that for my daughter ,she couldn't quit them because she was addicted  but my daughter - in -law had no problem with getting off the meds but suffered horribly.Their doctors said that the change in their hormones made the headaches worse.
   You are still young. I'm sorry for the pain you went through. I can't imagine the rape,pregnancy at 11, and the death of your baby. I too had a baby to die.She lived an 1 1/2 hrs. I never got to hold her. It was very hard. But you had more than your share.I'm sure someday you'll have a healthy baby and you'll be a great mom. I wish my daughter had been as concerned as you are.
God Bless you,
      Kerrie

[Beth]

Kerrie,

I am so sorry for the loss of your baby...if your experience in loss was anything like mine, people have likely told you to forget about it and move on. But I hope you had the opportunity to grieve and to remember...I am very fortunate that I got to hold and nurse my son in his short hours of life.

I have had numerous tests to determine the cause of my migraines- eleven MRI's (BROKE the bank) and a battery of other tests I don't even remember the names of. I have been hooked up to dye in some tunnel thing DURING a migraine to detect abnormal brain activity...everything you can think of and so much money it hurts to think about.

ANyway, they finally said "I just have them" (no kidding!) and I probably will until I am in my 30's.

I am sorry for your daughter's addiction...my father was a cocaine addict for most of my childhood and I know it's so hard to have a family member cought in that trap. I will pray for her, and your new grandchild...congratulations, by the way!

[Angelica]

"YOU GO GIRL!".......hEY, you did a terrific job up there, re: chronic pain and meds.  Esp. where using and chronic pain are concerned.  You did good, my friend! It's amazing to me, how well some, here (incl. Brighty, tom, JB...etc.) can separate the issues, w/ such eloquence, and expertise!

[Angelica]

......Where in the world have you been??? Hope all is well!

[cindi]

LOL   AWWW  yall are making me blush  LOL  thank you or the compliment  I sure could use one today   love ya     cin

[Wizard]

I am having a hard time today for some reason. 23 days clean and I have been feeling pretty good till today. Strange....Shane I started thinking about your post on your relapse and I was wondering how you are doing? I'm taking my own advice to you and coming here because the "Dragon" is screaming at me today. :-(
No reason, life is good....I got to keep focused.......this is hitting like a ton of bricks......I can't figure it out. No body aches or nothing, just head cloudy and craving.... feeling even weepy,what's up with that? whew.........Screw that.... I'm just gonna keep busy and keep my Faith... Oh well, sorry about the downer post as I'm sure it will pass. Must be the turning point blues! :-) Shane, Thomas,Cin, Angelica,Brighty,Pelle,Jay-Jay, Kerrie and anyone I forgot, Have a splendid day! The light is there.
Power & Magick 2U all!
Peace & Love,
Wizard

[Angelica]

You could be going through, just plain old depression.  It may have nothing to do w/ prior drug addiction.  Have you tried the L-tyrosine, and b6???  My husband had some problems w/ energy, and depression, and this has helped tremendously.  
Give yourself some time, and pray for divine intervention......power and strength.  You've come to far to relapse now.......Find something in life, that you have passion for....tackle an old dream or goal....You can do anything that you put your MIND too.  
God Bless you wiz!  Be strong!!!
Love,
Angelica

[Wizard]

Thanks for the boost Angelica. I used the L-tyrosine B-6 formula the first 10 days..every other day. It worked helping with de-tox. How long has your husband been using it? I was concerned with long term use. you are right I have come too far to go back now. I just need to blow off some steam I guess. I actually have started finding a lot of things to do that I had a great passion for. Swimming, biking, and just plain ole being! :-) Like I said I just got hit between the eyes today for some reason. My faith is still strong, Divine Providence is what got me here to begin with. I know it will be okay....Heck, I got some way KEWL angels here watching out for me. ( You being one of them) Thank you again. I'll keep praying for me and for us all.
Power & Magick 2 U,
God Bless us all,
Wizard

[cindi]

Hey there young man  LOL   just read your post re: your bad day...are you open to some "Food for thought my friend"?  first of all let me say that this bad day you are haveing may or may not be directly linked to addiction...OK...think about this...you used and abused for many years..you had a drug for every emotion right?  I know I did,  when I was sad I took a happy pill,  frustrated i took a "nerve" pill...so after medicating ourselves over the years how do we know what we are really feeling?  what I am trying to say is that you are HUMAN and we, all of us have our bad days...irritable  (my husband doesn't believe in PMS   LOL  claims it is an excuse to *****)  weepy, no energy etc,,,we, even normal people get that way but they don't reach for a drug to alter their mood   the difference between them and us is they KNOW  (or at least pretend to know)how to deal with their different emotions the normal natural way,,,we pick up a drug...getting clean and learning to live life on life's own terms...you are still very new at being clean and I do truly believe the 1st year is the hardest to deal with as we are faced with so many obstacles.  We have to learn to do things all over again   When I got clean I had to learn to be a nurse without using,  clean my house without using,sleep without using and wake up without a drug to wake me up....I think you get the picture  LOL  after I got clean every little thing I did clean I was so damn proud of...and yes...Sex while being clean   WOW  anyway, I am straying from the subject   (what's new  LOL)  be patient keep your faith,  keep a journal everyday and write down your feeling that you have had or may be having at that moment...then look back and think about how you dealt with the emotion.   WIZ,  I want you to know that I am in now way shrugging off your feelings...I am merely saying that we are entitled to and do have bad hair days  this is the normal human thing to do,,,,but ...if these bad days persist then maybe you should consider some outside professional help...just remember keep the faith and This too shall pass....Love to all   cin

[Wizard]

Hey, Wiz to Dorothy, oops I mean Cindy LOL Thanks for the food for thought. I'm now back over the rainbow thank you very much.
:-) Really, your words I've taken to heart and they make perfect sense to me. What the hell, I AM entitled to have a bad one right?   heee heee.Okay I feel better now. You are very right about all the years of a pill for everything. It feels so strange to change so very much of how I lived my life. But then was it really living? No, I think it was just existing...now I'm living. How did it go? I'll face piles of trials with smiles! Yea that's it. Again Lady, thanks for the smile :-)
Thanks for the thoughts and prayers. I'm clicking my shoes 3 times and whispering : There's no place like the forum, there's no place like the forum...........LOL
Love to ya Cin,
Wizard

[Kerrie]

Hi Everyone,
  I was hurting pretty bad and decided to get up and read some threads on the forum. I read yours Wizard and wanted to tell you I pray for you and everyone daily,nightly and whenever I think of of all you. I can't say anything more than Angelica and Cindi. I know I haven't been where yall have but I struggle with pain so much and I go from being very high on life to being very low. I go through periods of being very sick and then spells where I'm feeling well except for  the pain. But like you,I now know a place I can go and talk to people who really care and most know where I'm coming from. Somedays,I get terribly depressed but God always sends me a bright spot to show me He's here to help me and He understands. Today I was having a bad day but after reading the threads I remembered,we all have bad days. But I can always come here and I know there is someone who cares. I'm thankful I met you all here. I know your going to be alright Wizard. Your only human and I know you and Cindi and Angelica and myself and others, all have a mutual friend. He will help us when we're weak. It's so nice to hear you speak of your faith. He truly is our hope.Sounds like your already feeling better. Cindi and Angelica are truly good friends. Your all in my prayers.
     God Bless,
           Theresa

[cindi]

Hi Hon  Hang in there,  things are hard right now  I knwo but this too shall pass,,I did get your email  for some reason I was unable to open my email   it's ok now and i will srite you back as soon as I get home from work  you are on my mind  strongly yesterday and today....I'm here for you and you know  that  Love to all   cin

[Angelica]

Your post was awesome as usual......you been through it all, and therefore, can relate, and reciprocate......like no other!!!!
Kerri.......Hange in there my fellow chronic painer!!!  I am doing much better....and I actually take less medication than prescribed.......thanks to my faith, and My Lord.  But the road ahead will be a rocky one, esp. now that I have to find a new doctor.  I won't give up, because my kids are young, and I am still young...I'm just not ready to crawl up and die...or withdraw as my husband puts it.  LOL
Wiz:  Your post was so cute in reference to the wizard of Oz.  LOL yall are just too much......what a way to start the day!

[shane]

HEy Wiz, sorry I didn't get to answear you sooner, I've been having a rough time my damnself! I am sorry, but not surprised to hear of your bad day. Post accute withdrawal is a part of recovey and can come on without warning. Just stay strong man.It help me if I could just take a Time out from everything! just sleep as much as you possibley can day and night and try not to fixate on that f****** drug! I used agan for about seven day's Wiz and then abruptly quit. I was so afaraid of goiing through withdrawals agaain but it was'nt so bad. Thank God, I may be O.K. I fully intend to get rid of this **** from my life. Keep focused my friend, you don't want to do this all again! IT WILL PASS< IT WILL GET BETTER< YOU WILL SUCCEED! I'll say a prayer for you.and please do the sme for me. You"ll be alright! Keep posting Wiz. Your helping a lot of people on this forome  Shane

[CALLIE]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I am a nurse who was addicted to Ativan and Ambien. I couldn't get enough sleep.  I worked night shift for way to long.  My story is a long one i will give the condensed version. I ran out of Ativan and substitued with Haldol which is a psychatropic med.  I had a rare reaction to the Haldol called Neuroleptic Malginant Syndrome I came very close to dying.  I went from the ICU to detox to home.  They weaned me off the benzo with Clonezapam for 5 days. I am know
without any medications for 7 days I feel horrible. I am nauseated I lost 15 pounds in a week.  My head is spinning and I have so much anxiety i can't hardly even leave the house or drive.

I need any help you can give me.  WHAT HELPS !!! I want to feel normal again.  I have already read that B6 and L-tyrosine work
but what is the exact dose. ( I am scared to take anything after my near death experience.)

Also is there any other nurses on this board it is nice to know you are not alone..
Thanks again,
Callie

[Darvonaddict]

I am a recovering alcoholic and drug addict. My father and his
3 brothers were all alcoholics and died from it. My mother was
addicted to prescription drugs. So, I guess it was my fate to
become addicted to anything I used.

For the past 15 years, I have been taking 25 to 30 Darvon,
or Darvocett. I also took Vicodin or any other opiate I could
get. I used a number of doctors and many pharmacies to get what
I needed. I went cold turkey 5 weeks ago, and the first 2 weeks
were hell! I hurt so bad I thought about suicide to end the pain.
But, I am still here. Unfortunately, after 5 weeks, I still feel
very sick. I am retired so I can take naps and work on the
computer searching for jobs. I retired early at 55 just so I
could get off the drugs. My life as an addict and alcoholic has
been a nightmare, so I will continue to stay clean with Gods help. I don't want to go back there again. The thing that really
bothers me is how much longer will I be sick? I need to go back
to work, but I don't think I could function the way I feel.
Is there anyone out there that has similar experience?

't

[Wizard]

Funny about that mutual friend of ours and how He works in mysterious ways. I said i a previous post He had BIG ASS ARMS to carry us all in our stumbling times and I meant it. no matter what happens to me here I refuse to lose my faith and to me THAT IS DIVINE PROVIDENCE. I thank you so much for your prayers and support. You also with everyone here are in my daily prayers too. Hang on to the LIGHT! :-)
Angelica, you are always there also bringing smiles when there are needed along with pointing out HOPE when dispair wants to creep in. You can call me the "CUTE Wizard " anytime ;-* I really got a chuckle starting my day today! God Bless you luv!
congrats on your accomplishments!
Shane, Dude! It only matters that you DID respond! Not how long it took. With all the brothers and sisters we have here, someone is always an angel to us. It was re-reading your post on relapse that started me writing yesterday. That post and the support of all of you got me through the darkness that has since cleard. For that I thank you Brother. WE WILL STAY STRONG together dude!You and I and the others. It Will Get Better! It already has. We can fight it together Shane...Promise. Power& Magick 2U,all,Wiz

[Thomas]

you and I share a common experience which I'd be willing to discuss with you. However, I'm not posting directly on the forum anymore, so, if you're interested, send me an e-mail to:

***@****

This is of course only if you're interested. A number of other posters have recently succeeded in convincing me that my idea of helping another is outmoded and been replaced by something I don't care to know anything about. I'm only posting this message because your drug of choice is darvon and I might be able to relate where many others won't. I'm not sure if this is even a good idea, after the reception my efforts got this morning. If you respond, fine. If you don't care to, might I suggest contacting another poster named maximus. He is apparently far wiser and more perceptive than I am and no doubt can provide a superior form of help.

Thomas

[jewells]

Hi I am to trying to get of oxycontin. How fast should I wean myself, has to be fast cuz i think I will be around 4 days short this month. Should i start the L-tyrosine and B-6 now while still taking the oxys? I hate this. The only problem is that I do have a bad back injury and I am in major pain. I am suppose to take 4 80mgs a day but somedays I take 6 so that is why I am short this month cuz I do have bad days, But i do want to wean myself off these and take something not so addictive or just deal with the pain some how. I am so scared of the withdrawls. I know how they feel even when I take 4 a day i feel like **** but I am going to try and would appreciate you all to pray for me I will need it. Thanks and could anyone tell me what else is good for the w/d pain. I have xanax i take occasionally to sleep should I take those during the day?

[Deja]

Jewells,
Hi, you sound just like me!  I think I can encourage you or at least let you know what my experience was like getting off oxy.  I too am a chronic pain patient.  I was taking oxy and vicodin and running short each month.  I decided that the only way to determine my true level of pain was to get honest with the myself and the meds I was taking each day.  I stopped the oxy over 2 weeks ago and it wasn't fun, but I did it!  The withdrawal wasn't as bad as I thought even though I did have a couple of rough days.  I am now (as per my doctor) taking 3-4 vicodin 5's a day.  I am hoping I can stick to this routine because after stopping the oxycontin and going with nothing for a couple of weeks the small amount of vicodin is actually doing it's job!

Us chronic pain peoples are really put in a tough spot. We are put on the hamster wheel from hell when we start the cycle of wanting pain relief and the lure of the only type of drug that brings that relief!

I wish you all the luck and prayers in the world.  Please keep reading and posting here, these people can help you.  They have been my salvation!

Strength to you,
Deja

[jewells]

Thanks for answering so quick. I appreciate it. How did you wean yourself..And how bad were the withdrawls? What can I expect??Today I have only taken 2 80mgs and I am starting to feel ucking. I feel tired, hotflashes and just plain terrible already..How many oxys were you taking? I have been on them for 2 years so I'm wondering if it will be harder for me since I have been on them so long. I really want to do this. I will come here probably a couple times a day to see what everyone says and to get support. I want my life back from these mood swings and worrying if i am going to be out of pills. But let me tell ya my back is really hurting and it is so tempting to take a pill but I don't want to run out so soon. I will try to stretch the rest of mine out to my next appt but that will only be 2 pills for 4 days then only 1 pill for the next 4 days..I hope I can do this...It is so hard. Any idea on how to feel better? What did you do exactly to get off them. Sorry so many questions...but i'm just scared....thanks for your time....Hugs to all!!!

[Deja]

Hang in there! You are going to feel like sh*t but you will live through it, I promise!  

I have been on constant narcotic meds for over 5 years.  My level of oxy wasn't as high as yours, I was only on 30-40mg twice a day PLUS Vicodin ES for breakthrough pain- sometimes up to 8 or more a day.  This is how I did it-  

I too had some benzo (ativan) in the house and I saved them up for the withdrawal.  I can't medically advise you as to how fast to wean- but I did it over the course of 4 days.  Some would tell me- way too fast, but I knew I had to.  

The first day with nothing but Ativan I felt nervous, jittery, had some diarrhea, I was very achy too and felt generally sick! It felt like a bad flu- it wiped me out.  I used the Ativan to keep me semi- knocked out for the first 2 days just to avoid the worst of it and help me sleep.  

Best thing I can tell you to do is go back and read through the posts by Spook, Wizard, Thomas and a few others -  they have tried and true methods... I didn't do the Tyrosine (sp?) I am just generally leary of stuff like that... anyway...
Brand name Immodium- hot baths (I preferred showers and they worked as well for me) and lots of fluid! You MUST keep yourself hydrated because you will not want food.  The hot-hot-hot water will help with the muscle spasms.

When you totally stop the worst will be over in about 3 to 4 days.  I know it sounds like an eternity but if you can dole out your Valium carefully over those days it should get you through the worst of it.  I found I only needed 2mg of Ativan twice a day for it to relieve most of the discomfort and help me nap during the day- and sleep at night.  The last thing I wanted was to have to detox off benzos on top of the oxy! - SO I was *very* careful not to abuse my Ativan.  Tough out as much as you can stand.  (my own personal advice, others may disagree!)

I never got high off my meds- probably because I am a chronic pain patient, but I did start to run short each month and that was the catalyst for me to stop the oxy.  

You have a rough couple of weeks ahead but stay here and post and read.  Everyone will help you through this.  Withdrawal may suck eggs but it won't kill you -  I promise!  After the worst passes you will still feel crappy, but force yourself to walk a little.  The exercise will start kicking your brain in gear again!  Wizard was encouraging me to eat- and when I finally started eating it really helped!  Don't expect too much from yourself at all during the worst... and most of all -  no internal beating up on yourself for ending up in this position!  Try to stay focused on the here and now and getting through just today.

Please let me know how you are doing!!

Strength to you!
Deja

[susanlea]

My story is soo long and everyone here is probably sick to death with it, so I will tell you just a bit. I was taking Oxy's for 2 years, I am not an addict, and took less than I was supposed to, because my former boyfriend(Addict) would still them and anything else. What I found happened with me was, I would get bad back pain around the kidney area, when I didn't take them for a day, 2 or 3. If I took one the pain would go away. Strange, but the oxy's were causing the pain to be worse. I have fibromyalgia and a host of other spinal problems. Finally, I just stopped taking the oxy's all together, I threw them away because of his addiction. It took about a week and that weird Kidney area pain went away. I was still left with the pain I've always had. I ask the Dr. about this and he said that in some people oxy's can cause phantom pain? Beats me, I now use the patch instead, and Vicoprohen for breakthru, works for me.......Good Luck......Susan Lea

[susanlea]

I'm so proud and happy for all of you here! You've all made it through the day, just like they said one day at a time. For those of you who are off the meds, WELL DONE! For those of you who want to be, you deserve a blessing, it takes courage to want to beat the drugs. To reach out, to ask for help shows more compassion, courage and strength than those who have never had to ask. It takes a very special human being to do these things, and everyone on this forum is an exceptional spirit. May God, or who ever your higher power may be, give you another day of peace......Good Night.....Love Susan Lea

[cindi]

My friend Wiz said you were looking for another nurse,,,,I raise my hand  LOL   I have to go to the zoo with my daighter today but i'll get with you later on this evening      HI WIZ    Love to all  cin

[whitedove]

I'm sorry to say that, I only have a moment to post a comment this a.m. but, I read your comment and couldn't help but respond, even if there's some redundancy with what others have said. In a nutshell, I understand 100% where you are.  I've been there, came back from it and am fighting it again but, stronger this time.  You can tell what I mean if you have time to look at some of my other comments in the forum.

It's understandable that the 14 would give you a wonderful high, pain relief, etc. and personally, I consider Tylenol #3 to be weak because I've used so much more and, stronger pain medications.  Now, when I say more though, I don't mean 14.  I don't think I've ever swallowed more than 6 -7 at a time of Fiornal with codeine or 10mg hydrocone with 500 mg. of tylenol.  But, like I said, I do think Tylenol 3 is somewhat weaker, in my OPINION. Obviously, you must have started off lower and built up this tolerance.  But, Thomas is right, or whoever said it, how it in the heck do you go all day with that dosage and not take anymore throught the day?  In one sense, I can see where perhaps you could actually cut back easier because you'd only be focusing on one time, during the day.  I have to focus on cutting back all day long and night.  It really sucks!!  I just got the vitamins that were recommended that you've obviously read about by now. Have you tried them and have they worked yet, if so?  Let me know. I'm just getting started on them, in conjunction with my tapering off the hydrocodone.

If you honestly don't won't to fill a script again, pat yourself on the back!!!  That's the 1st step, in my opinion.  That's fantastic.  But, you will have to ease off.  Unless, you go cold turkey and not knowing your physical condition, I wouldn't advise that in the best of circumstances.  Can you ease off and since you are working with one large dose in the a.m., just start with 1 at a time or something like that along with the vitamin regimen?  

Well, I need to get ready for work even though I'd much rather withdraw peacefully at home but, please feel free to write and comment back.  Ask any questions you'd like. I'm in a 12 step program, have a sponsor, supportive (but, frustrated spouse) but as you can see, I'm still struggling.  It doesn't ever leave.  You have to work every day to remember the addictive process, I've found.

I'll be thinking good thoughts for you.  Your approach with the meds is different so perhaps, your attempt in getting off won't be as bad.  Good luck.

white dove
Pam

[Sac]

Hi all,
I'm a 49 yr old man who came down with Shingles (Face).
I'm having mega pain from the damage to the nerve.
The doctor has me taking Tyl # 4 6x per day...It's controls
the pain enough so I can work and live my life. However,
sometimes it hurts more. I have never taken more than 6 in
one day. I understand the difference between addiction and dependents. I took vicodien for 200 days before back
surgery and then about a week after... I just stoped taking the
medication (no one said anything about withdrawls) ...I had
some withdrawls for about 2 weeks and it took about 4 weeks
before I was feeling O.K.
They don't know how long this pain will last (anything from
no pain to pain for the rest of your life) My doctor sent me
to a pain clinic (I'm in an HMO) I'm not to happy with her,
She does not seem to care very much! My family is getting
fedup with me ...It's been 145 days now! we have done everything
for the pain...but the pain med and exercise are what works
best for me.
Anyway, last week someone took my pain medication from my desk
in my office...I think I know who it was, but what can I do?
Now I won't be able to get a refill for 7 days. So I'm having
some withdrawls. So far the withdrawls are not too bad , but the
nerve pain is someting eles!!!! Anyone who would take someone's
pain medication is a monster.

[jewells]

Hi everyone...well yesterday I took 2 oxys and felt awful not bad but not very darn good either. Today I took 4. That will be it for me today. It is so hard trying to wean yourself off these pills. But my back has been hurting so bad I can't stand it. I am trying very hard. Tomorrow I will take 2 and that's it but I'm sure I will be hurting. Now the L-tyrosine is it 4,000 mg every other day? And also I took two xanax yesterday and that seemed to help me also. Boy how hard this is. Honestly if My Doctor would of told me how addictive this medicine was I would of never started taking it. I have never crushed these pills or snorted them just taken a couple more a day then I am suppose to but boy did my body get addicted. I don't get high off them and basically never have. That is not why I take them. I take them for pain and also now to avoid the damn withdrawls I have. This sucks. I have two teenagers and I need to get off these monsters..Any advice I would appreciate it..Thanks.......

[Angelica]

I can definately relate.  Back in '94 I had the shingles (shh) yep.....I was sitting in someone's desk that had the chicken pocks....and then I was around an elderly person who had the shings!!! My immune system must of been really low due to an accicent sometime earlier.  Well anyway.......I only took the pain medication for about 1 month.....then the pain was almost gone.  Ya see, My doctor put me on this medication....some antiviral medication(cant recall the name?), and it cut the duration in half.  Why don't you ask your doctor about it.  I actually saw an ENT (eyes, ears, nose & Throat specialist)...this may be who you need to see.  You shouldn't have a problem w/ a referral.  You gotta stay on top of these people.......Make some calls.  Have you ever called for a refill???  You may be able to do this, a few times.  Are you sure, you don't have a problem w/ the medication??? DO you?  I know from experience this problem(shingles) can resurface, even years later.  I still get burning senstations on my face(7 yrs. later), and stabbing pain in my ear....from time to time.  That can be w/ you for ever, but at some point it isn't chronic anymore.  I have heard some horror stories, though.  I had the kind that just affected my facial nerves, and ear......no bumps.  Let me know how this turns out for you?

[Angelica]

If your back problem cannot be solved by surgery, your pain is level 6 or higher, chronic in nature, and prevents you from proceeding in somewhat of a normal life, then addiction/dependance is a natural, normal side affect.  I've just recently come to terms w/ that myself.  What else can we do?  At least you've found a doctor to treat your pain.  I haven't been so lucky, and had NO choice, but to suffer for years.  I've been on the oxys (20mg) for 3 weeks now, and I've gotten my life back....my husband said that I am a new person, and i was very withdrawn before.  He had never confessed that to  me in the past.  My chronic pain condition was effecting my family, and I didn't even realize it.  
I will never in any given day or period take more than I am supposed to, just my policy.  Try tapering down.  write your plan/schedule down.  Give it a try. Your not taking as much as some people, but your headed that way.  Can you live w/ the pain.....if so, ask your doctor to help you taper down.  Just tell him that your doing better.  There are States in this country, where people are actually turned away(in my case, before)and not treated, if there condition is really severe, because doctors do not want to treat them w/ these drugs; long term (DEA, I guess). I've called several doctors, not that long ago, and the nurse told me they werent taking new patients...AFTER I STATED MY CONDITION, and she said that she would ck w/ the doctor, and talk to him about my case, and get back in touch w/ me.....guess what????..Never heard from them again.  Just re-evaluate your situation, and frame of mind....you'll know what to do.  Best wishes.
angelica
ps.......what happend to your back, how many surgeries, and how many(if any) injections have you had???

[jewells]

Hi  well I was in a car accident about 3 years ago. It was pretty bad. I have been to the best doctor in SanFrancisco one time. He said i needed surgery. I have had the injections in my back around 4 times. That didn't really help for that long. I also went to physical therapy.Then I went back to work, BIG MISTAKE..I reinjured it worse at work lifting someting to heavy. I really shouldn't of been working. But No I don't think I can live without the pain meds. If I can get myself down to taking like two 80mg a day I would be happier. I just have a hard time sticking to what I'm suppose to take becuase I have been on that same dose for 2 years. So I know my body does need more meds to feel better. But I guess for someone being on them 2 years and not abusing them that's pretty good. But soemdays I am just in to much pain and that is why I take more then I"m suppose to. My back injury is in L-5 S-1. Also, I have scoliosis which makes my back hurt also. I had to wear a brace in 8th grade for 2 years so the curvature didn't get any worse. But I am trying to taper down and am doing it. It just sucks becuase of the pain.

[Deja]

Just knowing that you both are in the same boat I am regarding the chronic pain makes me feel so not alone in this rocky boat.  I too have come to terms (slowly and I am still coming to terms with it after many years) with dependency being a side-effect of the meds I need to function.  I was able to ditch the oxy's and am now sticking to 4 regular vicodin a day.  I know when my disease flares again (the nature of what I live with, on top of a messed up back) I may need more pain relief, but like you, Angelica, I also use the 0-10 scale to measure my pain.

Using the numbers - 10 being the worst -  I decide what I can live with and aim for that level of relief.  My doctor is wonderful and totally into pain management.  After reading what so many people here go through with doctors not wanting to deal with people like us I feel very fortunate.  

Jewells, how are you doing?  Angelica- thank you for your posts here, I read everything you write because I can relate to what you say and it helps me put things in perspective.  

Thank you for being there!

Deja

[jewells]

Today I have taken 1 80mg oxy. I started feeling alittle bit liek **** again so I just took a xanax and think I will know nap since I am not so shakey now. But If I can make it with just that one oxy today that will be wonderfull. We will see.Thanks for checking in and getting back to me. i wish all of us here the best of luck and I do pray for all of us. I believe that god will come through and I think one day we will all conquer this problem. I know I won't get completely off the oxys because of my injury and pain amount but I will take the least amount possible ..take care......*SS* to all......

[Angelica]

You both seem to be doing very well w/ your meds.  You will have to understand, that once you decide to quit, or a new treatment comes out....withdrawals will be innevidable, but not that intense, because you have professionals treating you.  Take my case for ex.  I have been on 20mg of Oxycontin w/ Vicoden ES for breakthrough for 3 weeks, well low and behold, my doctor decides to go HOME/move!  He has given me a months supply, but if this new doctor that I am seeing does not follow through w/ MY doctors treatment, guess what??? I will go through withdrawals, unless this new doctor helps me to taper.  This is why I am very conservative w/ my meds right now.
I used to believe that if a person had withdrawals, they were an addict......I know better, now.  I've taken the liberty to educate myself on chronic pain, and its treatments....I am considering moveing to a new state, or staying here, and fighting the war against prohibition of narcotic meds for chronic pain.  I'm still undecided.  My state is one of the worse, in the treatment of chronic pain, so just remember when you get angry at your doctors, because you are dependant on your meds, there are doctors out there, that won't treat pain pt's for that very reason.  As Brighty once said, we are involuntary addicts....I have accepted that.  Just keep a close watch on your schedules, and try not to take anything when your not in pain.....then when your pain is really bad take the medication.  I do think 2 years is a long time, and tolerance has certainly built up.  So you have one out of two choices:  Taper down, so that this amount will work later, or talk to your doctor about upping the dosage.  This is strictly my opinion.......and merely advice...This is what I do.  Keep in touch....There are chronic pain websites out there, if your interested, i'll post them.
Angelica

[Angelica]

You know what I was just thinking???  Once we get the medicine, we tend to take it for granted(me?)at first.  I wasn't watching what I was taking or when.  I didn't even look at the clock.  Then when My doctor said he was closing up shop....I said dam, I need to be more careful, and NOT take this medication for granted.  It's almost like, you gotta have respect for it...And I know someone w/ an addiction,is probably saying oh yeah right!, but I am specificaly speaking of patients taking this medication w/ out any problems, but it tends to go unchecked even w/ me, at times.  Now I brought my bottles in w/ me to my very last visit w/ him, and he stated that I clearly do not have a problem, because both bottles were still nearly full.  Ya know if these doctors would do their jobs correctly, abusers can eventually be found out.  This is why my doctor made us bring in the bottles.  If a month supply was gone in two weeks, well I either sold my meds or took more than I was supposed to, in maybe chasing a high.  So, you see there are ways for doctors to handle this situation, but $$$ and time is not given to the problem.

[Philip1815]

test

[Pillpoppa]

Hi,

Check out my posting to niccee about methadone withdrawl so I don't have to repeat it all again.

[nurseebol]

Hi callie
I am a nurse too.
I have been addicted to Heroin (snorting only)
vicodin, oxycontin, percocet, darvocet etc
Always manage to quit on my own for a month or so before things get too bad
It's been this way for years
The only time I was really in trouble was with the heroin, I was not far from needing rehab.
Withdraw sucks, but is more dangerous with your benzos, as you know
I take Xanax, but not alot,
I like Ambien, but don't take it much.
I have taken drugs since I was 16.
Has never interfered with my job.
Best of luck to you
I am trying the L-tyrosine and B-6
feel free to email me anytime

[cindi]

LUckily for you it has not interfered with your job....I gave up nursing on my own free will,,,,,rehab in 89 for demerol/and everything habit then in 95 stole some percocet and was slapped with 12 felonies,,Ohio does not take kindly to that....ended up with treatment in lieu of conviction and my license was on probation and of course i was not allowed to pass narcotics for 6 months or something,,,,the laws changed drastically from 89 to 95....There are support groups for impaired nurses...just a thought..good luck    love to all cin

[jewells]

Hi I am doing ok. I got my medication refilled and am taking only what i"m suppose to or less. I hate having to rely on this medicine but what else is there? I won't be in pain either. All this bad press oxycontin is getting is very scarey. I hope they don't take it away from the people who need it. Maybe they will come up with a new and improved oxy that people can't crush up or something. I just wish this medicine wasn't so addictive. It does suck. But it seems to be the only thing that works for me. Hope everyone is doing ok....My prayers are with all of you.

[nurseebol]

High stress, so many people in need of care,
who takes care of us?
I'll be damned if I am ashamed that a little bit
of narcotics helps me be more pleasant to my patients.

[cindi]

The problems came into being when I started diverting from the hospital,  giving the patients substitute pain meds that were not even ordered for them such as taking their demerol and replacing it with stadol etc...using to the point where I was in a blackout...not remembering I was at work...this for me became very dangerous...I was way past the point of taking something to relieve my stress....I know plenty of nurses that take something to relieve their stress but do not have a "problem" per say...I got out before it killed me....and no, I never had any shame of being who I am....but...I was facing a lengthy prison term...not for me...not at the expense of my kids and husband...so, my drug use did interfere with my job,,it scares me to think that under the influence I could have made a grave mistake that could have cost someone a life I had no choice but to stop the problem,,,,many nurses do not feel they have a problem.and they may not... or they may...not for me to say...and the same one that felt he needed something to relieve his stress,,,was the one I found in the bathroom, respiratory arrest, Prn adapter hanging out of his arm...empty syringe.. ended up on a vent....alot of us cannot control our use...and then it does interfer...You are one of the lucky ones...good luck

[Angelica]

.....Wow cin!  As I said before,  you've been there and back again.  Is there anything you haven't seen or experienced in this life of complexity? What A woman of experience, and knowledge, you are.  I feel I can talk to you about anything...
Love,
Angelica

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've had more than a little exposure to the hospital with my wife undergoing chemo. I have witnessed nurses taking patients pain meds first hand. The girl who changes the morphine cassette is but one example. All I can say is that it goes with the territory. I'm not going to flame anyone about this. You women deserve a lot better than you get in my opinion! Men, too. Let's just all be thankful for the wonderful job that your profession does. Yes, I have met some pretty awful nurses but......that's life.  J.B.

[cindi]

LOL  you crack me up,,,old worldly woman,,,that's me  LOL... I suppose you could say I have been witness to a few events....and involved in several...alot of good and bad things have happened in my life....however,,,I can honestly say that everything that has happened I truly believe has happened for a reason...and one real reason is that I can learn and share my experiences with people,,,and even my strength when I feel I have it,,,and my hope and faith which thanks to people like you is becoming stronger again....and JB my friend...there is good and bad in all professions....and I like to think that in my 20 year career I have been mostly good.yeah I faltered,,,my disease had a very strong hold on me,,,,but I was stronger.....at least I like to believe that I was good in what I did for other people. I love people and I think that everyone who knows me on this forum knows that about me...Nursing is a very stressful profession....however  it does take alot of concentration and undivided attention and that was something I was not able to do when I was using...my judgement was clouded,,,hell, I would fall into peoples beds at times from losing my balance...that was pathetic..no I am not proud of all of that..I am not proud that I stole peoples pain medication...I would kill if someone did that to me....but i try to find the good in that by saying that I did manage to at least give them something...which was also very dangerous...so that to was pathetic.. ..and my fear is that I am not strong enough bo be around all the narcotics....so at this time in my life my family is far too important for me to risk anything....thanks for your input...love to all  cindi

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

My mother is a retired RN. Need I say more? She still does volunteer work at the VA. They just love her!  J.B.

[cindi]

God love her.....I love talking to retired nurses....i work with one at the center and we could sit and talk about it all day.....nothing like the nurses from the old school talk about wisdon and taking care of patients...the would just as soon get in there and give a bath then do all the paper work and bull **** that goes on now,,,alot of nurses think they have it bad now....technology has really helped   I rememeber having to count the drops on a IV and dividing and all that other ****...now we have machines that do it all  LOL   love cin

[nurseebol]

Thankfully, I have never diverted drugs from a patient who needed them, have done some tricky things, but no one has ever suffered in my care.
The only problem I do have is that without a "little something" I have so little patience, all the screaming, crying, pounding......I lose all ability to deal with it. I admire so much those nurses who can deal with the demented so patiently. But we are so short staffed, this week, the DON is away, so I am DON, we are short aides, so we use LPN's, which means I pass meds, and I do charge. I am doing 3 person's jobs. I know I should start exercising, and getting healthy, but the meds work so easily. I can't always get them, and I know my work varies. So to me, my only problem is lack of drugs, ha ha. There is nothing good on my cart to borrow either, probably a good thing, ha ha. I have been reading Andrew Weil, I really think if I could do the 8 week thing, that I would feel great. Just need motiviated.
It also doesn't help that my mom was schizophrenic, and my grandmother, and I worry daily that I will be next. So far so good.
We nurses must stick together!

[cindi]

We do have to stick together...man the stress,  Your LPN"S don't pass meds and IV's....here they are allowed to do all of that..meds, start Iv's etc..Even charge nurse in the nursing homes...maybe Ohio is different...now the aides here in the homes are good...but they are in high demand...everywhere it seems is so short staffed.....sucks to be us sometimes...I left the profession for a few reasons..now when I move to florida things may change  i may find a job that does not have narcotics  etc..that would be a Godsend.....hang in there       love to all          cin

[arlmom]

Same story, different day. I know I am addicted to lortab. I have been taking 80mg a day for 4 years. I manage to keep it a secret but decided to tell my husband last night. I have fibromyalgia with really makes it hard because I truly hurt but I have severly abused the drug. It makes me have energy. I know it makes most people sleep but I stay busy and happy when I am on them. I have tried to quit numerous times. I can only go about 2 days. I get weak from the withdrawls. Right now I have 2 left. I tell myself that this is it, no more. How do others make it through the withdrawls and how long will it last. Is there any dangers of going "cold turkey." Such as seizures or high blood pressure? I have 2 kids, one with a disability and I don't want them to see there Mom in bad shape. I have been praying, almost without stopping, any suggestions? Please?

[niccee]

You may want to repost your question up at the top. Most people read those first and sometimes don't make it back down here. I had the same problem. I went to a methadone clinic. I am now detoxing off the methadone. I tried it without the methadone and just could not handle the depression. I have also started taking the supplements that some of the others here recommended. They have helped me alot. I also take Zoloft for depression. If you look through the forum you will see the supplements I am talking about. I wish I had a miracle for you, but my counselor told me that I didn't get myself into this mess in a day and I was not going to get myself out of it in a day. Good luck.

[Scorpio]

Hi...I was doing research on the web for a friend of mine who admitted to me today he is hooked on Tylenol 3's taking 15 at a time....This is a potential love interest for me and it's taken 37 years to find this guy but all my friends are saying he's not worth it due to his unreliability caused by his drug addiction.  I don't want to give up on him but don't know what to do for him.  Two days ago he told me his problem and asked for help and i offered any support in any capacity.  Today after taking 15 pills he was all messed up, broke a date with me and told me if i'm fed up to walk away.  How can I help him without being pushy or imposing on him.  I'm worried sick.  15 Tylenol 3's is suicidal to me.  I am a recovered drug addict myself.  I'm an addictive personality so I keep replacing my addiction with something else whether it be smoking, candy you name it.  I understand what he's going through but feel helpless since when he's stoned all he cares about is his pills and not about me, his friends or family.  But when he's straight he wants help and someone to tell him what to do.  I don't understand the mentality even though I went through it.  I never took pills over a loved one.  What do I do?  Do I stay in his face or back off?  Do I leave him alone or be there?  Can you tell me about the mind set of a tylenol 3 addict?  Does he have to hit rock bottom before he gets help.  Do I offer help or am I asking for trouble?  All me friends want me to walk away.  But I think I love this guy and need to feel like I'm doing something to help and not stand by or ignore it.  Please any advice from you wise and incredibly honest people would help.  I've spent hours going through your letters and will say prayers for all of you to be successful in your battles.  Thank you...Scorpio

[niccee]

Please repost up at the top. I know it is a pain, but i think you will get more help that way. Alot of people don't make it down this far. Good luck.

[chooch]

As far as the withdraw goes, you've got to hang-in-there to beat this thing now! Otherwise I'm afraid that you'll have lost you're control "once and for all". I know what I'm saying here since I was never able to get through my 2nd. full day without. I am presently on a methadone program (daily dose) I had no other choice once I couldn't get through the withdraw. You're dillema is rather common, though a truely personal tragedy. Please keep me informed of your success, it is reassuring to know that you've "grabbed the bull by the horns"!
Best wishes...

[bb69]

I was chemically dependent on pain meds for 7 years.  The last 2 years I was on extremely high doses of oxycontin and morphine.  I knew I had a problem and one day I said " ENOUGH".  I went into a 3 day hospital stay detox program that was guaranteed to work.  OMG!  My first night home after I left the hospital, I was in a full withdrawel.  I wanted to kill myself.  Luckily, I had one morphine patch on so after many hours of climbing the walls and trying not to put the patch on, I gave in and put it on.  I was so upset I cried for hours.  I felt like the 3 days of the detox program was thrown out the window.  I went online the next day to research my options and I read about an out patient program.  I went to see a doctor that was on the list and told him my problem.  I had to take the patch off and go back the next day.  when I went to see him I was in the beggining stages of w/d and I was scared.  he gave me a pill called Suboxone 8mgs, and OMG!  It was wonderful.   My w/d symptoms were gone and I felt good.  The program works wonders.  It's not addictive and you get weened off the medicine depending on how and when you are ready.  I started at 3 pills, 8mgs each, a day.  Usually one in the A.M. and one in the P.M.  That was in November 2007.  It's now March 2009 and I am down to half a pill twice a day, thats only 8mgs a day, which is less than half when I first started!!!!  Some days I go without just because I forget to take it, but you hardly notice.  It's amazing.  I have my days sometimes but it's nothing compared to being addicted to pain meds for 7 years and litterally watching myself deteriorating.  I was miserable.  No one has to go through painful withdrawel.

Bea