Is depression an effect of 'loritab withdraw'?

[lkayk]

I recently stopped taking Loritab 10 -- they were freely prescribed to me for back pain.  Out of concern for my family and myself, I quit taking them -- pretty much "cold turkey."  I felt pretty sure that I was through the rough withdraw period, but now I find myself very depressed.  After taking the meds for 9 months +, I noticed that instead of causing drowsiness, they gave me energy to get through the day.  Is depression a "normal" effect of getting off the meds?

Any info you have would be great.  Thanks.

[Kerrie]

Hi, I can't give you first hand information like so many good people here can. But my daughter quit cold turkey and was taking much more than you. She suffered severe depression and was so very tired. Headaches,diahrea,and much more. The people here can explain just what you need to know. I just want to encourage you to come here and talk. This is a caring family here. They understand and will help you through it all. You will be glad you quit when the rough part is over. There's many testimonies here to that. So feel free to speak how you feel here and you will be offered good advice and a shown a lot of concern.
   God Bless you and welcome,
           Kerrie

[Witchywoman]

Hi all!
First...let me make a comment on your question about depression after hydrocodone withdrawal. Unfortunately yes, it is normal. I think that the hydrocodone messes with seratonin and dopamine production, and it can take your brain chemistry a while to get back to normal. How long ago did you stop taking the meds?
The other possibility is that you may have had an underlying depression that the meds were masking.  You could speak with a Doctor and therapist about ways to help the depression..they'd likely suggest excercise, good nutrition, counseling, and possibly antidepressant medication.

Next..I have very good news. I am clean!!!!!
Yay!!!! Yippeee!!!!! I did it!!!
I can't believe I actually got through it, and I know that I could not have done it without the support of this forum and all you caring people.
At the wedding I was at this weekend, I was in so much pain..the car ride and all the standing flared me really badly..but I still choose to not take the meds, and I am so glad I did.

I still have a few withdrawal signs left, but not many. A bit of a tummy ache, very very low energy, and I'll find out tonight if the nightime restlessness is still there or not.

I know that now begins the real hard part, staying clean. That will be very hard, especially since I do really have bad back pain still. But, at this point the pain is lower than it used to be, and I'm willing to tolerate it to be free of the pill runing my life. I could babble on and on about how amazed I am that I was able to get through withdrawal. Honestly...the prospect of withdrawals scared the living (insert expletive here) out of me. So I just want anyone who is thinking about doing it, and reading this, to know that it is hard, but doable. The way I did it was this...I was taking aboaut 12 to 15 7.5 vicoprofens a day.
Day one of the taper I cut down to 7. Day 2 I cut down to 3. Then for the next two days I took only one at night, then two nights of half a pill, then nothing. I did use valium, and elavil to help, and I used Thomas and Pillpoppa's supplement recipies. The thing that I think helped the most was the acupunture. It REALLY worked to lower the withdrawals fast. I also used visual imagery of my own endorphins waking up and dancing around happily...silly stuff helps.

I hope that my energy returns soon. I feel so incredibly depleted right now.

Thank you all..from the depths of my soul, for being there. I will continue to need your help to stay clean, and to offer all I can to you all as well.

lots of love,
WW

[to doc dan from joe]

Sorry to bust in on the thread but I was trying Thomas's formula(for depleted brain chemicals) and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on using 5-hydroxy trytophan (5-HT, a serotonin precursor) to help build up serotonin levels to help with all the depression. Thomas's recipe seems to be helping me eventhough I started only using it yesterday.  I constantly felt like I was holding back tears for no good reason, I didn't want to get out of bed in the morning anymore.  I'm starting to feel like my old (chipper)self again.

[Kristen]

Yayyyy, I'm so happy for you.....your DONE!!!!  Keep up the good work....It's been 21 days for me and I NO longer am relying on those damn pills to get through the day....Stay strong WW, you can do this.....

Ikayk....depression is MOST definately the next symptom you will go through....but in a few days that cloud will be lifted and you will see things much clearer.  I am still going through some depression and not wanting to do anything....dont feel motivated, etc. butI guess if your using pills for 9 months straight ( have been using for 10 years off and on) you have to figure its going to take a little time to get your body back to normal.....but taking those pills again will just set you back and you'll have to go through those damn withdrawals ALLLLLL over again....YUK..the worst!!!  Hang tight, and we're all here behind our computer screens.....everyone here has been wonderful and definately helped me through this mess....  :)

[jennyfla]

Wow girl, i am so very very proud of you!
For everyone that accomplishes getting 'clean' it gives me more hope that i can do this!
Keep strong, you are going to get happier and happier and stronger and stronger with each passing day!
Lv Jenny

[jennyfla]

I'm getting so tired of living like this.
My husband is using, but not addicted yet (as far as i can tell).  I keep telling him that he doesn't want to go back to this hell.  He absoluately HATES his new job, and is looking for anything to help get him through it.  I tell him to leave the job then, it's not worth it.  Find something else, continue collecting unemployment, anything except getting addicted again!
I need to get my addiction past me... all i want to do is 'live' again!  
I feel so lost inside my own head that is shut down right now.  I feel like my brain has been taken over by the pills, it's shutdown and closed to all my real emotions that i used to be able to feel.
I miss myself so much, and i see my kids getting older and older, and i wonder how much of that i am missing too!
I remember when i could have it all, still feel, and take the drugs recreationally.  Then, one day, it all caught up with me, and i was an addict.  I could no longer be without the medication, it owned me!
How the hell did i ever get myself into this mess!!!!
:(
Lv Jenny

[lkayk]

Thank you ALL so much for the encouragement....I will continue to come here for support and advice.  This has truly been a very difficult time for me, and I thought that getting off the pills would help, but I seem to be sinking deeper into depression as the days pass on.  I have been "clean" now for about 2 weeks, so how long is this supposed to last?  I have been taking elavil for about 2 years now, for migrane prevention, and about a year ago, I began taking prozac to help combat depression, due to the chronic pain and the disruption it was causing my life.  Can or should I start taking the zinc/magnesium, L-tyrosine and vitamin B supplements?  I am ready and willing to try anything to get my life back!  I have absolutely NO energy -- I have to make myself get up and do the simplest tasks.  I have a wonderful, supportive husband, and 2 very sweet and helpful daughters.  I just HAVE to get my life back -- I refuse to let this mess get the best of me!!!!  

And congrats WW, for surviving and conquering your addiction!  I think we all know that we are MUCH better off without the meds -- its just so damn easy to open up the bottle and pop a pill.  I think this battle, we all face, will only make us stronger and wiser!  I have always believed that "everything happens for a reason," but sometimes "the reason" takes a while to reveal itself.  May God RICHLY BLESS each of you today. lkayk

[Witchywoman]

It would probably be a good idea to try the supplements that you've heard about here. Be very careful with the zinc though. Someone on this forum was not sure about the dosage and got very very sick taking too many. Stick to under 100mgs of zinc a day and you should be safe. It is better to also ask your doctor about the supplements, to be sure. I told mine what they are and he said they were fine for me to take.

The L-Tyrosine will help your brain be able to produce its own endorphins again, and that will help with the depression. So will aerobic excercise. So will Acupuncture.  I've not heard about the supplement someone else wrote about that is a seratonin precursor, but I'll look into it. It sounds interesting.

I have a question...how long does the sleeplessness last? I didn't get the restlessness last night, but it was still very hard to get a deep sleep. I only got 4 hours.
I"m still stunned that I got through this part of it. I wasn't sure that I could do it.

Jenny, I'm so sorry things are going badly for you..I can sense the despair in your writing. Please know that we are all here for you, supporting you and caring. I felt that I had lost myself as well, and I know it is possible to get yourself back.

love,
WW


WW

[GJ]

Hey!

joec: 5-HTP is an EXCELLENT supplement to take in order to stabilize one's mood. It's also a very effective sleep aid! If you have the means to get it (it is a bit pricey), I highly recommend it.

Kristen: hope you can hammer the point home with the bf about the guilt he's layin on you. We males can be such royal anus's!

WW: I extend a wholehearted "congrats to YOU" for conquering your addiction and staying strong! Although you say the REAL work begins now, you've gotten the haze cleared enough to be able to actually DO the work right? Just takes a bold first step ;-)

Jenny: I guess the hub's job didn't light the fire? Well, my advice remains - try to focus on YOU if you can! But I know it's oh-so-hard under your circumstances so what can I say? Trust in yourself and the prospect of something better awaiting you...it DOES happen, just don't lose hope ok!!!

ikayk: depression is common in ANY withdrawal, but I have heard that Hydrocodone WD can have a "lingering" effect with the mood-aspect, where it may take up to a few MONTHS to fully recovery MENTALLY. Best to check with an MD if it gets any worse ;-). Also, try and eat somewhat healthy! Try Thomas' B6 recipe, and take a good multivitamin.

-G

[Kristen]

I am having SOOO much trouble fighting this demon in myself....I looked through the whole medicine cabinet today, cleaned out my closet in the hopes I would find just "one" pill....but NO luck....God must be telling me something....but I am having a terrible time focusing on things I need to do, dont feel happy, feel like life is bleek, boring, just BLA!!!!  I upped my zoloft about a week ago, but dont notice much of a difference.  I dont think I've ever been off of Lortab's for this long in 5 years, so maybe its just going to take more time....I'm feeling guilty because I'm not taking care of business or being the perfect person....Maybe its just the high expectations that the BF is wanting is pressuring me....If I take 1/2 a zanax will this eliminate some of this anxiety I'm feeling....I dont want to knock myself out and these do this to me sometimes...but I want to feel NORMAL!!!!  HELP SOMEONE!!!!!!!!  Thanks for being here everyone, love Kristen

[lkayk]

Hey--just hang in there--go for a brisk walk--take a long, hot shower--stay busy, if you can at all.  I found walks and showers to work best for me, but I am sure that everyone has their own way to fight off the demon.  I also find prayer and reading scriptures very helpful.  Please know that you are not alone and that you WILL beat this!  Here are just a few scriptures/prayers that I have meditated on:

Exodus 14:13,14---Do not be afraid.  Stand firm and you will see the deliverance the Lord will bring you today......The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still.

Exodus 15:11---Who among the gods is like you, O Lord?  Who is like you--majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?

I also find this prayer to be most comforting:

Father, I ask You to bless me today.  I am asking You to minister to my spirit at this very moment.  Where there is pain, give me Your peace and mercy.  Where there is self doubting, release a renewed confidence in Your ability to work through me.  Where there is tiredness, or exhaustion, I ask You to give me understanding, patience, and strength as I learn submission to Your leading.  Where there is spiritual stagnation, I ask You to renew me by revealing Your nearness, and by drawing me into greater imtimacy with You.  Where there is fear, reveal Your love, and release to me Your courage.  Where there is sin blocking me, reveal it, and break its hold over my life.  Bless my finances, give me a greater vision, and raise up leaders and friends to support and encourage me.  Give me discernment to recognize the evil forces around me, and reveal to me the power I have in You to defeat it.  I ask You to to all these things in Jesus' name.  Amen

I hope this helps! lkayk

[pinky to rebecca]

today my boyfriend is loading up on valium, etc - going to do the at-home screw-the effing system detox this week.
i will let everyone know the results.
praise to WW!!!! that's so great.  :) c

[A.S.]

Hey Kristen... I know what youre going through. Today is my fourth week anniversery being clean. These days will come and go. You hang in there strong one. When this passes and you beat it, it will just make you stronger. I went through it yestarday and beat that mean ole dragon again. Today I fell better for doing it. This is the mean part of the whole thing. You stay srong and healthy. Im in this with you too. A.S.

[Lorie]

Hi My husband has been on Lortabs for 6 months. I am so worried about him because of the amount he is taking and the Dr. just keep perscribing for him. I just need support right now and need to know how to handle him. I am ready to call the Dr. and tell them to stop perscribing these killer drugs. His back pain is gone now all he is left with is a big addiction.
Thanks
Lorie

[pinky to rebecca]

Dear Forum

I have just run across a very inspiring story that has me at the moment completely choked up.

http://www.acay.com.au/~narcosis/skinofteeth.htm

It is one person's story of addiction and recovery. Everyone dealing with addiction in one way or another will be inspired.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Kristen,
I had a few thoughts as I was reading your post about how hard it is to handle your feelings right now. Granted, this is probably what I'm going to have to tell myself once the "glow" of getting through withdrawals is past me...so I say this to myself as well as to you.

It just strikes me that letting go of the narcotic is truly a grieving process. JB said to me, when I first posted here, that giving up the narcotic is like loosing a lover. I think that we all must go through the grieving for the loss of something that has been such a close part of our lives for so long. Even though it caused so many problems and so much suffering, it was there...a constant steady presence. It's really letting go of the illusion that there is something out there that can gives us relief from the feelings that hurt so much some times. Most of us probably have a lot of frozen feelings that the narcotic had put on hold that we have to process once we let go of the drug. We just have to be willing to feel again, I think. I don't pretend to know..I too am feeling my way through this, right along with you, and A.S. and everyone who is going through this.

Also..more practically, the body needs to adjust again. I know my body right now is going "What the f*&! have you just done to me!!!"   Excercise, lots of hot water, seeking spiritual contact with whatever your higher power is to you..all this helps. I think. Well, I HOPE...because I know I'm going to continue needing all this as well.

lots of love, and sending you healing vibes and positivity,
WW

[goldenblond1]

Hello to All... I just stumbled across this site.  I was interested in reading about being addicted to opiates.  I absolutely love them and wish I didn't!  There was a time a couple years ago that I took 280 vicodin in a matter of a few weeks.  I was prescribed them for neck and backpain.  I also worked in a pharmacy which I had to quit because I couldn't stop thinking about those frickin pills.  I myself never took any of them, but I thought about it constantly!  On top of it all I have had migraines since I was 5.  Well, as you can imagine I did go into re-hab for two weeks.  It was an out-patient re-hab and did help.  I drink and smoke (don't want to say what!) and I still take the vic's whenever I get a chance.  I have friends that I talk out of getting them from.  When I don't have them I hate it and when I do, I start to panic that I won't be able to get anymore.  I have even gotten a couple on line memberships to those "over seas" pharmacies that promise you, you can get the meds.  Sure.. what a scam!  Nonetheless, I do wish all the cravings and obsessing about the substance would leave.  I pray to God every day to relieve me of it!  I have been in and out of AA and NA and it's probably a good idea to go back!  In the meantime, I still wish I had a couple vicodins to take.  Sad but true. Being addicted to a substance is awful.  Thanks for letting me share!

[Witchywoman]

Cat, thank you for that link. Not only was that a powerfully moving story, but that site also provides a wealth of wonderful recovery resources...Good one to share!

Hi Lorie...your situation is really hard. One thing I'd first advise is for you to remember to keep the focus on yourself. Have you told your husband how you feel about his addiction? Confronting him based on telling him how his actions impact you won't necessarily make him decide to stop, but it will be a step toward you not loosing yourself. I don't know how to advise you on the decision to tell his doctor or not. Maybe some others here have been in that position and can give you better guidance on that decision...
have you looked into NarAnon, to get some support and guidance from other friends and loved ones of addicts?

WW

[Witchywoman]

Hi Goldenblond, and welcome to the forum. You have stumbled upon a site that is the most wonderful, compassionate and helpful group of people you'd ever hope to find.

I hope you can find some support and solace here, as well as some hope!

WW

[A.S.]

Hey woman... Great post. What you have said makes me fell better as I write. True feelings are the best. You are a good person with true feelings. Im still here lurking and reading A.S.

[Kristen]

That story was amazing.....thanks so much everyone for sharing your thoughts and fears about this addiction ****....its helping me so much....


WW,
You are absolutely right about grieving.....I made up my mind just NOW that I'm going to go to an NA meeting tomorrow...I cant live with this insanity any more inside my head....I'm still having a few drinks at night but I am just numbing my pain, boredom, depression, loss, etc.  I think since I'm unemployed right now, NA is the only option I have to get free help.  I also have decided to stick with a woman's NA meeting or AA meeting....wont be tempted by men....

I have just sat here today and obsessed about being high on those damn pain pills, but I didn't give into that BEAST!!!  I swear if I didn't have this forum to type in, I probably would have already given in.....

I just feel so alone and hate this feeling inside....i feel there just isn't any happiness without a drink or a pill....I dont drink at all during the day, but once its about 5 or 6, I tell myself its OK, its cocktail hour....thats what mom and dad always did....I got into it last night with my boyfriend after we had BOTH been drinking and my son heard us....and we talked to him about us stopping drinking....but I just hate my boyfriend feels he has everything all under control....he says HE can stop ANYTIME....but damnit, he'll drink every night...he may not get completely intoxicated, either do I, but he still does it and is a hypocrit about the whole damn thing...Maybe Kristen needs to be the strong one and get myself to a meeting and show his ass I'm doing something...Wheewwwww, that felt good getting all that **** off my chest....sorry I got carried away again here.....I'm venting everyone if you couldn't tell, just blabbing.....Hope everyone is happy and feeling some real joy inside...hang in there Jen, GJ, WW, jbear, skipper, A.S. and anyone else I forgot....

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I can relate so with the "search".  Do we ever find that one pill?  

You are an addict and this is potentially fatal so take it easy on yourself.  You will never be perfect!  I tried being perfect and almost died recently due to self neglect.  Funeral arrangements were being talked about as I layed in the hospital in septic shock.  We have the ability to kill ourselves and drugs only serve to help us do it.  We don't literally abuse the drug so much as we abuse our bodies and minds.  Get help for numero uno asap.  J.B.

[Lorie]

Well, this is not the first time he has been addicted. He was clean for 12years and got hooked up on Lortabs and continued  getting them from 3 different Drs. This 6 month run is starting to scare me because of his past addictions. He is lieing again and doing all the things he use to. It's very hard because I have already gone through this nightmare once with him and never did I ever think it would happen again. He says he wants to get off but his actions speak louder than his works. This man was restored completed from 20 years of heroin addiction and now has a business and his family back. What is he thinking!! I think he has such a love for the high that he can't see past it.
Thanks Witchywoman for your comments
Lorie

[Witchywoman]

Lorie, I've been thinking about your dilema, and I think that if I were in your situation, I probably would call the Doctor and tell him.

There is a really good website, www.presriptionabuse.org that has a forum specifically for family members of prescription drug abuse addicts. I just read a bunch of stories there that reminded me of your situation. I bet you could find some advice there as well, but please keep us posted here as well!

WW

[Lorie]

Thanks for the web site, I will look into it and I will keep you posted. He was suppost to be home at 4:00PM and it's almost 9PM and he's still not home.
Thanks again for your concern
Lorie

[susanlea]

Once an addict, always an addict.  You said your husband is using again? But not addicted yet?  When he took that one 80mg oxy he was nolonger a recovering addict.  He is now a practicing addict.  You know this Jenny.  Unless he stops now, he will be right back where he was in a short time.  It gets worse each time they go into detox and than relapse.  The only thing I see here is that he lowered his tolerance, for awhile.  But if he continues to use, he will go right back to where he was or worse....take care my friend, Love Susan

[jule1]

Hi Kristen, I am so glad you have found this forum to come to and vent what a relief right?  I always found that when I had too much time on my hands I got into trouble.  You have got to find some productive things to do to occupy your time so you arent thinking about those damn pills all the time.  Maybe you could finally do that one new craft you have always had in the back of your mind or start reading a lot of good books just anything to keep your mind off of things.  It made me so sad to hear of your son hearing you and your boyfriend fighting like that I am sure you are very upset too.  I will be thinking of you and help you in any way possible keep posting!  Love, Jules

[cindi]

Jenny,  Susan is right,,,,,he is no longer recovering...how abot you,,,now it's your turn to think about you..what about going into treatment for yourself....inpatient if possible....maybe outpatient?  you have got to do what is best for you...love cin

[Thomas]

yes

[mickytim]

Sorry for taking so long to answer Ikayk, as a chemicaly imbalanced person ,with Manic Depression, notice I did not say Bypolar, ( to PC ), In my own case and others I have spoken to with our condition of depression, we allready came into this depressed. You will start to feel better very soon, you must give it a fews days but you also must try and push past it. I notice you quoting scripture ( soory not into it ) but that a great sign and a good start for you to ease your depression.  

If you still are fighting the loss of energy that is not really depression but a possible start, use your readings and also there are many vitamins or herbs out there to help was telling WW HI WW! there are many things to help if you work with them.

Best of luck! you got many of us with you.

Joec, Dude I forgot about the use of 5htp and because I am manic dep, I'm not suppost to use it,( effects could be bad when taking dpress meds ) after reading WW post about serratonin levels being effected Hi WW, and because the withdrawls were so tough, I read your post, I stopped my does of dpress meds and started taking the 5htp,  within hours was feeling so good I couldn't belive the difference three days later I feel GREAT!! No withdrwals No ickys Sleeping good 11 days clean.
Thanks for the good call

Kristin, I know how you feel, hope you resolved that MAN issue, never forget as you woman say men are pigs ha ha! sorry just a liitle humor you needed a smile today.

mickytim

[to doc dan from joe]

I wasn't sure about the 5 hydroxy tryptophan helping depression, I guess it does.  I'm glad it helped, maybe I'll give it a try too, but it costs so dam much!!

Joec

[Lorie]

Well my husand says he hasn't had any Lortabs or Oxie since Sunday but I have a hard time believing this. His speech is all slurred and he nod's all the time. It makes me sick to see him like this. He says all he's taking is Valium and some sort of sleeping pills to aide him with the withdrawels. But I don't see him in any sort of pain. What's up with that?? I think he is lieing to me and still taking the pills but I can't really prove anything!! Please if you have any insight on what's going in please clue me in. Do Lortabs or Oxie make your speech slurred?? He's starting to look and sound like a 90 year old man!!!
Thanks Lorie

[susanlea]

I Lorie my name is Susan.  My former boyfriend was addicted to percocets, oxy's and methadone.  Still is.  What I have found to be true is.....if you really feel he is using and lying to you...he probably is.  What I have found is if an addict is telling you what they are taking and how much.   Chances are it's probably 10 times worse.  From my own experience only, when my ex was in withdrawals he would have terrible joint pain.  He couldn't sit or lay still. He would vomit and have diarreah constantly.  He wouldn't eat, just mostly sleep, after being exhausted from being up all night with the sweats. I don't know how bad your spouses addiction is, but if it was anything like my ex's about 200 to 300mgs aday.  It was fair.  But the one thing I do know about an addict is.  Most will lie, steal and hide anything and everything to not get caught.  They will lie and lie and manipulate.  Sorry sweetie, been there.  It's not an easy road.  If he is sweet and nice to you at all times, there is hope if he will be honest with you.  But if he withdrawls emotionally and affectionately, blames or calls you a liar.  If he tells you, you are imagining things.  Big clue here...he's lying and abusing.  Good luck to you, and God Bless you....Susan

[jennyfla]

I'm trying to cope with getting through each day without loosing my mind right now.  It's so hard with working, taking care of the house, and caring for my three little sweet children (sweet most of the time anyway).
My little 18-month old is amazing me so much lately.  She seems to have taken a big leap in development over this past month.  She's 18-months going on 8; things she's as old as her big sister!!!  She's actually talking in sentences now, i call her a genius with 'princess eyes'.  She will start daycare in less than two-weeks, leaving me in the office by myself for the most part, so i can focus more on what i need to do for me, so it's really a good thing.  
I no longer take oxycontin, only percs and other lighter opiates, which seems to be the cause of my being in a constant state of withdrawal for the most part.  I don't take enough of the other to match the crushed oxys, and i won't.  I don't have that much left, so once my parents' visit is over with, i plan to get down to business and beat this addiction for good.  I have no choice actually, i'm running out of medication at a rapid rate.  Anyway, it's what i need to do and what i want to do!!!  I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired!!!  I wake up in such an awful state lately, it takes a while to snap out of it.  It's not even the physical withdrawal that i fear most, it's the hell of the mental 'downfeeling' that is felt when you are low on opiates.  I just want to crawl up under the covers and never come out!!!  If i can just get past that part, and start feeling my natural brain chemicals again, i think i can get through it completely and totally this time!!!!
Pray for me!
Thank you!
Lv Jenny

[Witchywoman]

Jenny..I agree that you are so often so hard on yourself.

You can do this girl...like someone else posted, I think the thing that will most help you in this process is to take some of the energy you have been putting into your husband and put it into yourself.

From what I just learned in going through withdrawals, it is a time when you HAVE to be MASSIVELY focused on taking extremely good care of yourself. You have to have complete focus on and commitment to yourself. Give yourself permission to be "selfish", and I mean the good kind of selfish. Think of it as a spiritual journey as well. I don't know what your spirituality is, but for me, one thing that worked was remembering the Myth of Inanna, the Goddess who goes down to the underworld to visit her Sister, and then gets trapped there. This was like my own personal descent to the underworld to rescue the part of myself that was trapped and lost. Use whatever higher power you relate to. But the main thing is...focus on Jenny. Is there any way that you can go into an inpatient rehab, where you won't have anything else to do but focus on you?


What got me through the worst of the worst of it was constant email support from some of the folks through the forum, hour by hour check ins, staying glued to the forum and babbling, taking tons of hot baths, and ..most of all, contantly reminding myself that I was doing this as an act of self love, and was willing to bear the intense discomfort in order to live with my heart open to myself again.  I used imagery of silly little cartoon endorphins waking up in my brain skipping and laughing and thanking me for letting them wake up. I would literally also wrap my arms around myself and talk to myself about how sorry I was that I abandoned myself, and that I was from now on going to love and be there for myself no matter what.
There were many times that I also just sobbed and sobbed and screamed into pillows, and rolled around on the floor and just wanted to die, but I think that is part of the wave that we just have to ride. The memory of it will help me in the battle to stay clean.

So, along with Thomas's blessed recipe for the physical part, think of this as WW's emotional recipe.

I'll be here for you every step of the way, as we all will.

lots of unconditional love scurrying your way...

WW

[anakaranina]

Does anyone know about naltrexone os a craving redu
ction medicine? I heard it is revolutionary and widely used in Europe.

[Witchywoman]

I've heard about it, but don't have any personal experience with it. I know it is the drug they administer in the rapid opiate detoxification, where the put you under anasthesia, inject large doses of naltrexone, and then when you wake up, you are completely detoxed. The Puget Sound clinic charges $5,000. for this procedure, and they require that you stay on daily dose of naltrexone for6 months afterward. I guess that it makes your body unable to respond to opiates, thus reducing the desire to take them while you work on recovery issues.

It has some side effects, which I think can include liver problems. I don't know all the side effects. Some folks are very opposed to it due to the side effects.  I'm mostly in favor of it if it is the only way that someone is going to be able to fight the urge to use once getting clean, but I'd see it as an adjunct to other kinds of active work on recovery, including meetings, therapy, groups, etc. You have to weigh the risks of the medication with the risks of living with an addiction, and figure out where how those are weighted in each individual situation.

Maybe others on this board know more!

good luck

WW

[jennyfla]

You are such a sweetheart!
I think you mental recipe sounds wonderful!!!!
My 1-year old is making me crazy right now, so i have to keep this short, but i did want to thank you for all your kind words!
I will talk more later! Thanks for being here! :)
Lv Jenny

[Lorie]

Hi Susan,
Thanks for your comments. I guess I really know all that your telling me because my husband was a drug addict 12 years ago. He's been straight those 12 years and had back problems and got hooked up on Lortabs and Oxie, to his choosing. He must really think I'm an Idiot to actually believe that he is trying to stop.
I can't even tell you how angry I am at him because if he keeps going he will lose everything that  God restored to him. Family, Business, respect from his kids and these things took sooo long to get back. I just wish I could do something but I know that it has to be his decision. I'm just wondering if he could be snorting that oxie because his voice is messed up!! What do you think?????
Bless you back
Denise

[mickytim]

Yo Dude wazz up?
Yah 5Htp wroks as a nerotransmiter for serratonin levels on a smaller scale than lets say Prozac. Because of this it will supposably give those with lower cases of depression, there meds. Saw this on 20/20 and ask lots of Dr's, BUT shoouldn't be taken inconjuction with Prozac or others because it could cause meds to be eratic with possible side effects yes of couse they say death but in my experiance was more like headaches and others small effects.

Good luck, hope this helps!

mickytim

[susanlea]

I was so naive!  I figured he was only taking the 3 or 4 I saw him pop in his mouth and chew.  I used to wonder why he would spend so much time in the bathroom.  I mean 30 to 45 minutes a couple times a day.  I still do not know if he ever shot up, but I now know he was snorting them.  He would lie, and become very mean and verbally abusive.  I was not married to him, but I was with him almost 6 years.  He left almost 6 months ago.  I gave him an ultimatum.  Either go back into detox (spent 5 days there over a year ago)  or leave.  He chose to leave.  He got up and in 5 minutes he was gone.  In a flash, life changed.  I spent the better part of 6 months on this forum.  Absorbing and asking as much advice as I could get.  Wizard, Thomas, Milo, Jenny, Cindi, Kerri and the list goes on,  helped me back out of the black hole to sanity.  You can not make him quit.  What you can do is do for yourself. Take care of yourself and what you need.  I had to go to Al-anon and Nar-anon to get help.  Got a sponser, went to as many different meetings as I could.  Now I am so happy that my life is better. No more lies, no more deception, punishment, yelling around my kids.  We are happy.  It still hurts, especially when I hear he's still chasing Wizard's dragon, and now it's escalated to worse drugs.  Long story, but my point is this.  I helped, begged, pleaded, got angry, anything I could do.  But it never changed.  All I saw was 2 years of abuse, but I'm sure it had been there years before me.  I am not saying everyone who's with an addict needs to leave, but you need to take care of yourself.  Get yourself some help, and educate yourself.  It's still hard, but one day at a time.  I just want normal.  No more of the ****.  We did not cause it, we can not control it, and we sure can't cure it.  Be good to yourself my friend, and I wish you luck.  Good bless....Susan

ps to Jenny.  My computer was down, and you know I wasn't feeling well for a couple of weeks.  Everythings fine, they the surgeons got it all.  Big sigh of relief.  I am worried about you and will try to call you this weekend to catch up.  Miss you....love  Susan

[Thomas]

enough already! Physician heal thyself! Pick up some L-Tyrosine, B6 and a good multi that contains large doses of zinc, mag, phosphorus, copper, etc. and jump-start yourself! Used properly, L-Tyrosine and zinc/mag are a revelation for recovering opiate users. I haven't read all your posts but the ones I have seem to have you recommending this therapy without actually using it yourself. You won't believe the mental clarity and "mental balance" L-Tyrosine can give you on the very first dose! If you've already tried all of this, then accept my apologies. But if not, do, do, try it. Even without the narcotic connection, the L-Tyrosine can work wonders. Give it a whirl!

Thomas

[Witchywoman]

Hey there..I have been using pillpoppa's supplements as well as your recommended supplements for a long time now.

I started the zinc/mag regime over two months ago, as soon as I read it here, with the hope that it would help withdrawals once I was ready to go off totally.  

My current supplements are:
Multivitamin
zinc/mag
l-Tyrosine
5 htp
bcomplex
vitamin c

the zinc did alleviate the withdrawals a bit but certainly didn't make them a non issue, as pillpoppa said they would.  I had sweats, chills, restlessness..all that. But it was manageable, and I'm now hydrocodone FREE!
Adding the 5 htp to the regime really helped a lot, but I only found out about it after the worst of the withdrawals were over. I wonder how much it would help if added into the detox week along with the rest of it?

thanks for thinking of me!

WW

[Shelbug]

My husband and I recently divorced due to drugs. We used cocaine & drank together, "recreationally", (if there is such a thing) throughout the 8 years we were together.  I thought this was my soulmate.  Everyone we knew thought the same.  Last year, he began working out and I discovered he was injecting steriods. Around the same time he began using lortabs and is now addicted. He admitted in marriage counseling that he had discussed with a  physician that he didn't think he could stop on his own. I was fighting a losing battle, cocaine, steroids, lortabs and alcohol.   After we separated, he continued the using and the lies.  He has developed a big-shotism attitude and seems to care about no one but himself.  I knew something bad was going to happen and had felt it coming for a long time.  Back in March of this year, I demanded the cocaine stop.  This is when the lying began.  At that time, I turned to alcohol to deal with my pain.  That was obviously not the right choice.  I feel I did everything short of putting a gun to my head to save this marriage.  I still love this man and I see him destroying himself.  He goes on with this lifestyle acting as though this is what he truly wants.  We are both 37 years old.  There has been a lot of harsh words said over the split.  I have done things I am ashamed of out of trying to make him feel the pain I felt.  I keep thinking in my heart & mind that he will see the light and want to stop and come home.  Someone tell me why I cannot get over this and how to go on with my life.  I am so hurt and so scared that I will never love again.  What are his chances of realizing what he is doing to himself?

[susanlea]

I am so sorry to tell you this.  But the chances of him realizing what you want, is close to never going to happen.  Believe me,  I know how you feel.  I spent 6 years with a man I loved dearly.  Long story short.  He became addicted to pain meds.  He stole, lied, emotionally and mentally abused me and my children.  Anything to not get caught.  He went into detox, and rehab.  Came home and relapsed.  I thought all this would kill me.  That my love for him would make everything all right.  Doesn't happen.  If not for Cindi, Jenny, Francois, Thomas and of course the Great Wizard.  I would have never made it.  I went to theraphy, read everything I could.  Then I went to Al-aon, got a sponser and went to lots of meetings.  Just reading this, you can not grasp how desperate I was.  He left 6 months ago.  I am soo much saner and my life has moved on.  Yes it still hurts, I still think he will change, that things will work out.  But then I see or talk to him.  Guess what?  He's worse now, moved on to other drugs, as Wiz would say  "he's dancing with the Dragon".  If you want to get into specifics, and you need some info, you can email me at either  ***@**** or ***@****.  I know the pain you are experiencing and it's a pain that feels like it will kill you, that your life is over.  All I can say is......it does get better.....I will talk with you soon.....Love  Susan

[tryn2rson]

Hi everyone. Im new and I need help. I am currently taking 1 to 2 lortab 10 per day. I have starting tapering down my dose and I've only had about half a one today. I had the shakes incredibly bad last night. I started with a hot flash and by the time I got into my bed, I was shaking so bad. This lasted for about 30 minutes. Then I got a rush of nauseu (sorry spelling). I will be needing much support and helpt through this if anyone is willing. I am working today and I've only taken what I felt would keep me from withdrawels throughout today. I have some Valium , will this help with withdrawels, or just make it worse? Any help would be greatly appreciated
THANKS!

[RocketBoy81]

this is my 5th day clean and its been hell this week--but im getting through it--i really want to stay clean--that is my goal-i dont wanna ever go through these withdrawels again-(this is my 3rd try at it!)=so thanks for the support!
Rocketboy

[wgirl]

hi! my name is danielle and i am an addict, and have been for about 6 yrs.  first it was pot, then cocaine, and now i am off pot and cocaine and on lortabs!  about 2 days ago i decided i wanted to quit taking them,  i did not know what to do or how to do it.  see, it started out about 2 yrs, ago.  i took one really just for the ---- of it.  then the next thing i knew a year later i had to have one to even get out of bed.  today was my first day without one and it was aweful!  i will be honest i have calling around to see if i can get one but i have not had any luck, maybe that is a good thing.  i will tell whoever is reading this is the hardest thing i have ever had to do in my life and i am only 21yrs.  it just made me wanna start crying when i read other peoples stories, and realized i was not the only one.  my doctor gave me some kinda mediccine but it really is not helping anyone got any suggestions as to what could help the horrible withdrawels? well thanks for listening it has made me feel a little better but not much.

[skipper]

wgirl:
welcome to the forum. always room for one more junkie. you are in
good company here. one small bit of advice: post closer to the
top of the forum if you want to intract with other people post-
ing. it's real easy to get overlooked here in the "basement."

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Dev]

This is amazing to read everyones story, they all sound like mine, i have been taking loricet 10 for yrs on and off, it started out to be 2-3 a day and then i tried not to go over 5 but i usually average around 7, i don't feel tired like most of the people who take it do, i feel energized, my pain is gone, and i don't feel a high at all i am sure i am past that point and never try to get to that point that is why i never wanted to take more then i do, can you tell me how much have you all taken in a day am i like everyone else or am i like way over the limit. i am also taking an anti-depressent, and i am hoping to get off, but i dont know how i can, but i am trying to take less eaach day, i lowered myself for the first time and went to a new dr. because i ran out of my other script, so know i have dreams that the DEA is going to find out and arrest me, it is amazing how these run your life, Does anyone know how often the DEA check on these kind of things i am freaking out, this site is great thank you, dev

[Seagull]

Ultram.  I started taking it exactly one year ago after my vesectomy (vasectomy).  The doctor gave me 28 pills and that was that.  At one point last summer I was taking that many A DAY.  I quickly learned that buying the generic drug (tramadol) over the internet was way cheaper than getting a percription.  I began buying 1000 at a time.  Life was great!  I have three small children and a business, not to mention a wonderful wife and a home by the sea.  But that wasn't good enough for me, no.  I needed a free ride and that ride lasted a pretty long time.  I thought I was so smart to alter my brain's chemistry in such a way to make me more patient, happy, energetic, and social.  Now it's 2:50 am and I'm wide awake while the rest of the family sleeps, oblivious to my hell.  Tramadol fools you.  It makes you think that you feel quite normal untill you try and stop, then it blindsides you!!!  It's only been twenty hours or so since my last six caps went down the hatch.  Customs has seized my last few shipments.  Big brother watching over me.  I guess it's a good thing, I hate being a slave to those green and yellow capsules.
       Sleeping is a fool's errand.  I found this website tonight, I'll probably be back several times a day now.  You guys are great to keep giving out helpful advise and encouragement.  I've been reading for two hours straight.  I am quite dizzy with a strong urge to wiggle my feet and hands when trying to sleep.  Also emotional, but clearer headed in a way.  Ultram keeps me from seeing the bad sides of me.  So when I quit, there is a rush of feelings about how I havn't really been there for my wife, just being selfish and thinking of ways to pleasure myself.  My tounge feels like it is hooked up to a battery, not pleasant.  I feel cold inside, like left-over turkey in the fridge just sitting there.  I want to go hug my children and wife, but they would not understand.  That's a lonely feeling.  My wife works tomorrow (today) and I watch the kids, including a six month old baby.  Tune in tonight to see how my day was!  I am not looking forward to the cold light of day...I know it only gets worse.  There are still a few odd molecules of Tramadol crossing the blood/brain barrier.

[Seagull]

Fewww, what a morning.  Kids finally settled a bit after breakfast and cartoons.  It's now twenty four hours after my last Ultram.  I was at twelve a day (average) for a year and now nothing.  Quite an experiment I've conducted on myself.  The problem is that the experiment can't help but effect my children and wife also.  The kids got up at 4:45 am!  Everytime I stand up I get quite dizzy, like orthostatic hypotension or something.  And the urge to cry is always there, like I have the whole world's problems and pains to deal with.  I'm thinking of calling the doctor for some Valium or something so at least I won't cry in public!  But then I can't let anyone know what I've been up to.  What a trap Ultram is!  I'll go drink a bunch of water and have a multi-vitamin.  I wasn't patient enough to taper off the stuff, though I knew I should.  but I wanted to get high one more time untill-all gone. Here's the thing, I thought as I read other people's horrible experiances with Ultram withdrawl, I thought "oh that won't happen to me" but it did.  So if you are taking tramadol, you WILL have to come down sometime.  Make it easy on yourself and taper, taper, taper.  It might be hard, but this sucks!!!!!!!!!!!see you tonight. EEEEEEK!

[Telby]

You are not alone as you know from reading the other many posts but it sure can feel that way when withdrawal hits.  It takes alot to come as far as you have already so go easy on yourself, this is definatly a process not an event.  Please continue to post and ask for what ever support you need.  I have heard alot about Ultram from these boards and it sounds as difficult as all of the other opiates to get away from and stay away from.  Don't get discouraged and don't get scared, you will get there.  Hope you continue to post and stay in touch through this adventure. YOur in my prayers and thoughts,  love Telby

[Seagull]

Hey, it sure is nice to have some feedback.  This is the first time anybody has given me any encouragent, mostly 'cause I've kept it a secret and nobody knows.  How nice to have this resourse.  Well, after thirty hours of spinning, sweating, coughing, and taking care of all the little things that add up to "life", I went to a doctor.  He said I was at risk of seizures and for the sake of me and the children to NOT QUIT SO FAST.  He gave me twenty Ultrams and thirty Ambiens (sleeping pills).  I know what you are thinking, I blew it.  But even though I took Ultram again, it's been almost another twenty four hours since then and I'm not yet desperate enough to take more.  I now know what hell lies on the other side of sudden and complete stoppage.  I will nurse these, even cut them up into pieces and only when I fear something catestrophic will I take one.  Remember, I was taking twenty, even thirty a day!!!So I'm not dissapointed in my failure to go through sudden withdrawl.  I am dizzy again, but that's ok, I can cope with that.  I will just remember that as long as I feel terrible, I am ridding my body of Tramadol. I'm glad to be alive.  Thanks Selby.

[hjp]

seagull, when you get off the ultram ( out of your system for at least 24 hours) you might ask your doc for Revia( naltrexone).  It blocks the sites in your brain that your ultram likes to hook up to so...if you took an ultram later it would give you no narcotic high....might make you sick.  You need a support person to make sure you take Revia daily.  Your physician will go over this with you.   Good Luck          HJP

[fairlight123]

Hi Seagull,

Just wanted to wish you luck with your Ultram withdrawal. I've been Ultram free for a month now.  I took it only for a couple months, 4-6 hundred mils a day, and I went through the exact same withdrawal you described.  It took me 7-10 days to feel better, and I couldn't have done it without this board.  I also went to my dr. who prescribed Ambien and Valium to help with the withdrawal symptoms.  

Hang in there, be strong, and soon this will all be a memory... but one you won't soon forget.  Just take it one day at a time!

[Telby]

Just a quick note.  Your not "blowing" this at all. Your Dr. is right, it could be dangerous from what I've read to stop Ultram suddenly.  You are doing great and I have a good feeling your going to come out the other side of this like a shooting star. Listen to your Dr. and do whatever he suggests to be safe and well.  Please stay in touch so we'll know your alright and let us hang in there with you.  I am frankly very proud of you hope that you'll have a peaceful night of rest tonight. love, Telby

[sunny1]

HI
LOOK AT MY OTHER POSTINGS HERE...IT COULD BE YOURS.  3 KIDS, HOME,BUSINESS AND ONE HELL OF AN ADDICTION.  2:00AM IS EARLY FOR ME TOO (NO SLEEP), TIRED, MOODY. I TOO ORDER FROM OVERSEAS PHARMACIES IN THE FOIL BLISTERS PACK 100 CAPS=$42.00 ETC...WITH THE GREEN US CUSTOMS TAPE ON THERE (FELT LIKE A MAJOR HEROIN TRAFFICKER THE FIRST TIME I ORDERED...THERE I WAS CHECKING THE STAUS OF MY ORDER AND TRACKING IT IN THE MAIL. (I DO NOT THINK THEY DID THAT IN THE FRENCH CONNECTION. I ALSO GET 500-600 FROM DIFFERENT PLACES HERE EACH MONTH.  I AM TRYING TO SCHEDULE A RAPID DETOX IN A CENTER IN A FEW MONTHS BUT I HAVE TO GET THE DAILY AMOUNTS DOWN (30-40 PER DAY AND SOME DAYS MORE) UNDER ADVISE OF THE DETOX DOC'S THEY WANT THE LEVELS DOWN ASAP! OR WANT ME TO GO TO A REGULAR HOSPITAL WITH A DETOX UNIT.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?  HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN? HOW DOES IT FEEL?
I SCARE THE HELL OUT OF MYSELF EVERY TIME I DO THEM NOW BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I AM HAVING A HEART ATTACK. I THINK THAT IS DOSE RELATED BIG TIME. DID EVER FEEL THAT?  DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU ARE BEING SHOCKED AND ZAPPED WITH 110 VOLT ELECTRICTY EVERYTIME YOU LET THE BLOOD LEVEL OF THIS **** DROP?

I SWEAR IT WAS LIKE I WAS READING ABOUT MYSELF IN YOU POST...I THOUGHT DAMN? I DID NOT REMEMBER WRITING THAT,  THEN REALIZED NO BEACH HOUSE HERE I AM 300 MILES FROM THE SEA...(A LIL' HUMOR
SURVIVES AFTER ALL THIS).        

GOOD LUCK AND EASY DOES IT BRO'! HELL, IF SOMETHING GOES HAYWIRE OR THE WAGON CRASHES DUST YOURSELF OFF AND PLEASE POST.  IT IS THE ONLY POST THAT I FELL LIKE "BEEN, DONE THAT". I NEED A LIL' HELP AND INSIGHT  FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THIS NASTY LITTTLE PILL ON A VERY CLOSE BASIS,  I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR TAKEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.  FOR THE LITTLE LITTLE PILL IT IS IT DOES NOT DO MUCH FOR ME BUT IS A NASTY ***** TO MANAGE (AND THE WHOLE TIME IT MANAGES ME)
LIKE I AM GOING TO MANAGE LIGHTENING IN A BOTTLE.  
POST

[Telby]

Here I am half asleep and your post kind of scared me awake. I don't know that much about Ultram but those levels sound very high to me.  Until you get the ROD could you find a Dr. who you can stay in close touch with so you can lower yourself safly? I was considering taking that drug to help me through Oxycontin withdrawal but to tell you the truth the posts on this board have scared me away from it.  It makes me so mad that the medical and pharmacutical companies gave and give such bogus info about this drug.  Well, your going to get better so feel proud of your decision to do the Rapid Detox and please tell them the truth prior to going about how much you are using and have them direct you regarding the best way to taper off.  I'd feel better if you had a local Dr. who was monitoring you with blood work and giving you doses to help you stabilize and reduce slowly.  But I worry about everything, you know yourself best and you are the expert on this drug.  Maybe if you didn't write in caps you wouldn't freak me out so much -Ha.  Anyway, you are headed in the right direction and keep posting about how you are every day.  I think I'm right about getting medical assistance and following directions until the big day.  Your in my thoughts, love, Telby

[sunny1]

HI
THANKS A BUNCH!  YOU KNOW, THE DETOX DR'S KNOW THE WHOLE DEAL ABOUT ME. BUT MY LOCAL (SCRIPT WRITER) DOC DOES NOT (BOY WHAT A SCAMMER). I AM SURE HE KNOWS SOMETHING,,,HE GIVES ME 360 A MONTH.
YEAH, "I AM GOING TO WELL BUT I AM AFFRAID TO TELL THE DRUG KEEPER FOR FEAR HE WILL CUT ME OFF...WHAT KIND OF TOXIC DRIFFLE IS THAT." (A JUNKIES RATIONAL I GUESS)   I AM AFFRAID TO GET CUT OFF IF I GO TO ANOTHER LOCAL DOCTOR...CATCH 22, BUT I HAVE TO DO IT TO LIVE.  HOWEVER, YOU ARE 100% CORRECT I HAVE TO CONTACT HIM, THE UROD CENTER HAS TO GET  ALL MY RECORDS RELEASED FROM HIM AND ASSIGN ME A LOCAL COUNSELING CENTER BEFORE I CAN GO TO UROD...THIS ALL HAS TO BE DONE IN THE COMING WEEKS.  "GOD, PLEASE GIVE ME STRENGTH HERE" IS WHERE I AM.  

PLEASE SEE THIS DRUG FOR THE POST SAY.  I CAME OFF THE OXYCONTINS AFTER 8 MONTHS AND MADE IT.  BUT THIS STUFF IS WEIRD.  IT SEEMS TO GREATLEY AFFECT THE BRAIN CHEMISTRY
AND SERITONIN PRODUCTION AND FLOW.  IT IS BAD BAD STUFF.  PLEASE DO NOT TAKE IT.  I WOULD RATHER HAVE AN ARM TAKEN OFF AND BE DONE WITH IT THAT KEEP GOING THROUGH THIS.
GOD BLESS

[sunny1]

OH YEAH..
I SOMETIMES WRITE IN CAP LETTERS BECAUSE I THINK THIS DRUG AFFECTS MY VISION. WHEN I TAKE THE "NIGHT DOSE" I CANNOT SEE SMALL PRINT FOR A WHILE. I HAVE TO USE A MAGNIFIER TO READ SOMETIMES...I CAN BARELY READ THIS.  BUT I DID NOT REALLY NOTICE THAT UNTIL CHRISTMAS WHEN MY YOUNGEST WANTED ME TO READ TO HIM AND I COULD NOT MAKE OUT THE PRINT (PRETTY SAD).  THE NEXT DAY BEFORE I DOSED I COULD READ...AN HOUR AFTER I USED I COULD NOT.  ABOUT 2-3 HOURS I COULD SEE IT AGAIN. SO, WHEN I WRITE
IN CAPS IT HAS TO DO WITH THIS LOVELY ADDICTION.
GOD BLESS

[Telby]

I get blurred vision also, when I am going through withdrawals I can barely see across the room. Please try to stay strong Sunny, I really think your very brave to go through what your going through. Tell your local Dr. if he messes around with giving you enough pills to maintain that he has to put you in the hospital that day. Don't let him intimidate you, your too important.  Once you know your being medically monitored you'll feel better so make them do their job.  I'll be thinking of you and thanks for the OC encouragment, it really helps.  love, Telby

[Seagull]

Well, Sunny, the good news is that I found it much easier to get down from the twenty or thirty a day to around ten a day.  I would just take less of a dose each morning, noon, and evening.  Most of the pain was mental at that point, no bad physical pain.  But now I'm down to four a day!  I should be proud of myself, but there is no room for pride when I'm dragging around the house, sweating, dizzy, and seeing flashes of light.  And yes, those electrical shocks are not your imagination!  Even though this sounds intolerable, I keep telling myself that it's like having a really bad flu and that I won't die or just flip out entirely.  I manage to make the kids breakfast and get them ready for the day, however, I am depressed and don't play with them like I used too.  At least I don't enjoy reading to them and wrestling with them on the floor saps all my energy.  But I go on.  What else can I do?  This feeling sucks but this website makes me feel a LOT better just knowing I'm not alone.  Hang in there Sunny, I'm living proof that you can taper down from thirty a day without going out of your mind.  You know what I did?  Since I was a little kid, I've always wanted to fly remote control airplanes.  Well now I'm thirty seven and I did it!  I keep busy building and crashing airplanes in my spare time.  Anything that helps you keep your mind off of those pills!  I know I'll get back to my old self as time will clear out the craving.  I hope sooner than later for all of us.  Just try and be strong Sunny.  I want to respond to other folk's input but I've got a three year old who wants to play "boom boom" on my computer.  This is weird, I feel a "closeness" to other users of this site.  I'll be back!!!

[sunny1]

THANKS A BUNCH.  I AM TAKING A FEW LESS FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS AND THEN CUT BACK A FEW MORE.  (THE UROD FOLKS REALLY DO WANT TO MESS WITH ME UNTIL WELL UNDER A 1000 MG'S PER DAY...SO, I HAVE INCENTIVE AND NOW KNOW IT CAN BE DONE (PARTLY BECAUSE OF THIS SITE AND KNOWING OTHERS HAVE GONE THERE FIRST) I AM STUNNED AT THE SIMILARITIES FOLKS HAVE.  MANY PEOPLE GOT IN OVER THIER HEAD BY FOLLOWING DOCTOR ORDERS.  THIS IS A SHAME.   THE DOC'S SHOULD WORK WITH THE SAME FERVOR TO HELP GET PEOPLE BACK TO NORMAL AFTER THEY HELPED GET THEM HOOKED.  BUT IT ALL COMES BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO RELIZE WHAT IS UP AND CORRECT IT.  I AM SO ANGRY SOMETIMES.  I KNOW MAL(BAD)-PRACTICE IS WHAT SOME DOC'S DO. 'SAY THIS STUFF IS NOT HABIT FORMING...AT ALL, YEAH RIGHT DOC.  I SHOULD HAVE READ THE INSERT BUT MY GOD SOMETIMES I TRUST  PEOPLE BUT NO MORE WHEN IT COMES TO CHEMICALS EVER!!!.  THANKS AGAIN AND LET US KNOW WHAT IS UP!  4 A DAY IS AWESOME!!!! I LONG FOR THAT DAY.

[Seagull]

Hi Sunny1, hope you slept a little. I did go back and read your other posts, very similer situation indeed! Here's some positive input about cutting back on the Ultram:  first of all, it doesn't take long for the Tramadol to become very potent again after you start cutting back.  I find big time relief by taking two (2) of those yellow and green caps.  Only last week, I would have laughed at the aspect of taking only two and having any effect what so ever! But now I feel pretty good for six to eight hours after only two. In July I took 34 I think, and felt worse than I do now after only two! Not only are you ridding your body of Tramadol, but extending your supply and saving a lot of money to boot!  Those Madola blister packs go a long way if you respect them.
     Ultraman, I hope you listen to Sunny1.  I was like you Ultraman, didn't think I could possibly be in trouble-I felt too good.  I even signed my email posts "Ultraman"!!!  How's that for parallel realities?!  I thought I was immune and different, but found out I was the same as everyone else.  Ultram is a ball and chain as I'm sure you are finding out.  Be good to yourself, you don't need to quit all at once.  Think about the four or five ultrams you just took, not the other four or five you wanted to take!  It is potent stuff.  That thought helped me through some terrible nights.  I don't know if it's safe, but after my first twenty four hours of cold turkey (hell), only a fraction of my normal dose worked very well. So if you can possibly go twenty four hours without ANY Ultrams, you are doing yourself a HUGE favor.  Might not seem like it during those twenty four hours, but I made it without jumping out a window or something else drastic. And remember you have company during those aweful nights; this forum.  seagull.

[sunny1]

HI
I actually slept 4 hours straight.  But you how that bs pill it makes me feel like  going  to whiz and then I cannot right away until I feel FORCE (like you are pushing your guts out the wrong way)  But I can actually begin to see some light thank

Jess
Way to go!!! I had a pharmacist tell me yesterday that it was non-habit forming too,  Wow...what a studied guy!

[GOD]

Wow! Amazing to hear all this new information on ULTRAM... I am a recovering Alcoholic-- 3 months sober from booze after inpatient treatment--(taking ULTRAM right now for Extreme Peripheral Neouropathy cased by Excessive drinking/Diabetes)

Now that I've read the Information about ULTRAM posted on this site, I will definately ween myself off this drug. Knowing that I have an addictive personality, I specifically told my doctor that I could NOT have any NARCOTIC drugs sugh as percocet, vicadin, codeine or any codone containing derivatives. He understood, and prescribed Ultram 50 Mgs 3X a day. He told me that it WAS NOT addictive, and was VERY SAFE. Hmmmm..... I've found it much different! In the span of one month, I went from 3 pills per day to 8-10 a day. Also, I went on a trip to Kansas city for a funeral --Forgot to Bring the ULTRAM along-- and ended up in the Emergency room in Horrible pain (Feet/Neouropathic) -- Now I find out that these could have been my first withdrawl symptoms!

I'll check back with you guys later....
And thanks for listening to my RANT!

Jess

[GOD]

Hey, People!

Well -- I've begun the gradual tapering off of the ultram...
Today, I've had 300 Mgs (2 tabs morning, 2 lunch, 2 evening) seem to get decent pain relief, but also having some withdrawl symtoms. On another note, my aunt is trying to wean herself off of MORPHINE and OXYCONTIN (and experiencing HELL ON EARTH) -- Thank GOD that all I have to deal with is ULTRAM. I gave her the address of this board, and hopefully it will help her!

It has certainly helped me through this ordeal....

God bless...
Jess

[Seagull]

I just can't believe a PHARMASIST still thinks Tramadol is non-addictive!!!! What drug company does he work for, Ortho-McNeil????  I read on another forum of a PHARMASIST hooked on thirty to fourty Ultrams a day.  Hmmm ,maybe the first pharmasist should talk to the second pharmasist!  By the way, I don't hold the manufacture responsible.  I knew the first time I took Ultram that they were addictive.  It was an opiate buzz for sure, just like hydrocodone only stronger, better, and lasts twice as long.  Funny that hospitals still lock up the hydrocodone and leave the Ultram out like candy in a dish.  Gonna be a lot of hooked nurses out there!    by the way it's been almost another twenty four without using.  I am quick to shout at the kids, but still feel ok.  I just try and amuse myself in other ways.  When I can go TWO days without,then I'll be getting somewhere.  the seagull.

[sunny1]

Here it is...another day of weaning back off this poison and I feel bad.  But, I am going to be okay (i think).  I keep getting "zapped" over and over because the way ultram has affected my serotonin.  Not too good but I do not think I am dead (yet). Yeah, "you want to affect your brain chemistry a little more try ultram"...that should be the sales pitch. the logo is a butterfly...should be a vulture!

cutting back slowly
easy does it folks!!!!

[sunny1]

Hi
Maybe...just maybe, with the advent of the information about the president Bubsh's niece, Noel Bush, being arrested for passing
a bogus script for Xanax something positive may happen.  

I feel addiction should be seen as the disease it is.  Society would not have contempt for cancer patients as they do for many addicts.  I know some behaviors  asociated with some addictions sometimes are awful (stealing, lying, cheating, robbery and even death). These are done mostly in the pursuit of their "high".  

If there was proper help and well trained doc's out there were responsible for the addicts they helped get addicted things may be better.  It would be nice for more treatment options to be open and to not have the government be so strict on your regular MD's trying tp help you detox on an outpatient basis and using whatever methods that work.  I would much rather a heroin addict in the throws of his disease not have to jump through multiple hoops to get a less dangerous longer acting subsitute drug.  It should be easier for those that are addicted to get some reasonable possibly safer alternative treatment than just chasing very dangerous, many times bogus ot "cut" drugs to stay high.  

I know what some are thinking, "Well addicts will just abuse the pills in place of the street drugs" they are given.  Possibly, but at least they would or could be under the assistance of someone with a plan to help them until they can have enough clarity to possibly want to be "clean". Some control would be better than an all out free for trying to score dope of all kinds.  Why not prescribe with the goal of going to an eventual drug free sober life with help and support.  

You know, addicts are not going to "quit" until they sick and tired of being sick and damn tired.  I would rather come to that feeling under medical supervision than being "cutoff" by the medical system where no MD will ever write a controlled drug for me.  

You, say this effort will drive others to try drugs.  If you could limit it to those with a prior abuse history and counsel those people that the ultimate goal is getting clean and sober.

I am not the scum of the earth (been called that), I am not one of the dregs of society.  I am not a victim!!! No no.  I am person would has a condition wherein if certain substances are introduced I have severve problems and do not have an "off" switch saying stop...Mine is defective.  But I am a PERSON!!!

[Seagull]

Well, went to my first NA meeting yesterday.  I admitted a lot to myself when I walked through that door and sat down.  It was hard.  But it was an eye opener too and got a lot of usefull advise.  I still haven't a clue to what the twelve steps are!  They were out of books.  I was a little intimidated by the noise level as each addict greeted one another.  Then I thought it was time to go because people wanted to shake my hand, but then realized they wouldn't let go and formed a huge circle.  It was a little cultish, but there were many, many, former users of hard core drugs who were quite happy to be there. Should I go again, I ask myself?  I don't think I'm in danger of using again because I can't.  If I could I would for sure.  I won't do the street scene and lying to doctors for pills is worse than withdrawl.  So I guess this IS the first day of the rest of my life. As I've said, I've used the internet to buy good cheap tramadol by the thousands and now U.S. Customs has put a stop to that.  Maybe the new year brings new laws?  I wish the Doctor Steve could comment on Tramadol.  To me it's a very potent narcotic, much stronger than Hydro and last three times as long.  Pin point pupils, dry mouth, very euphoric and peacefull.  Now if that ain't a narc, I don't know what is!!!  

I am muddling through another morning with no aspect of any pills to "make" me happy.  As I type this, I realize that I have to make myself happy by generating new enthusiasm for the same old grind.  Oh, like I am remodeling my old dining room and successfully rewired the room.  I'm no electrician, but now the lights work again.  Some small solice.  My wife keeps picking up extra work so it's me again with a six month old, an eighteen month old, and a three year old.  So it's not hard to keep busy. I have a home based buisness so I'm by the phone all day too.  Guess I'll go make breakfast for the crew

[GOD]

Well, I'm down to only 1 ULTRAM 50Mil tab per day... (or should I say per NIGHT..) For the last 2 days. Only one left for tonight, then, hopefully, I'm off of those pills forever. I just wish that the medical community realized how potent these NON-ADDICTIVE pills really are. I have had percocet, darvocet, and many other NARCOTICS prescribed for a 3-5 day period, and have had very MINOR withdrawls, and no cravings after a couple of days. *BUT* after only 2 days on the ULTRAMS, I was on cloud nine, and the happiest and dopiest I've ever been in my whole life. ULTRAM lasts longer, and gives you a more euphoric high than any narcotic that I've ever had (But, maybe that's just me)-- and the early stages of withdrawls are similar to heroin or Oxycontin withdrawl.. HELL ON EARTH!!!!

I've talked to a couple of people who are using ultram to *Rehab* off the heavy NARCS... and they are just becoming ULTRAM junkies. But, both their Doc's seem to think that being an ULTRAM addict is much better than being an OXY addict. Oh well, I guess maybe they're right in one respect -- It is not a *felony* to posess unprescribed ULTRAM like it is with OXY.
But, In my opinion, ULTRAM is just as powerful a mind-altering drug.

Please wish me luck on my last (Hopefully!) night as a junkie...\\

Good night   ... And God bless you all.

[Korg]

lkayk, I just wanted to thank you for your poem.  I'll soon be 5 days clean and I know I didn't do it alone.  God has taken be by the hand to get me here.  And He walks with me daily.  Your prayer was so honest and from he heart, that I've now printed it and keep it with me.  

Thanks again:)

With the Love of the Lord, Korg

[bettyboop705]

hi my fiance has been on hydrocodiens and oxycodien for more than a year from a car reck that torn up his spin, 1 week ago he went to his doc to get off, he put him on 2 valium a day for 4 days now he is on nothing, he does have flu like syptoms (symptoms), but the depression is hard, and he has no energy or could care less to do anything. how long does that part last? or what can we do to stop the groggyness
please help, this is not the first go round, but it is the last strand.
for both of us.

[worried878]

need to make a new post...this is a very old post and is very long....learned some things reading back to 2000 tho...hit the post now button so it will be easier to respond to...keep posting