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Is it possible that I am addicted to xanax?
by reba6465, Feb 28, 2003 12:00AM
A friend gave me about 30 xanax tabs .5 mg about a month ago. I was suffering from a lot of anxiety. The pills really helped for the first few days, but then they stopped working. i am addicted to alcohol and marijuana but usually avoid pills because i was in a psych ward for a year and heavily medicated. I haven't taken any xanax for a 5 days and I can't sleep, have really wierd dreams, I am nauseous ,no appetite diahrea, crying, headaches, dry mouth etc. this sounds like everything i have read about xanax addiction. Is it possible to become addicted this quick? Help me please I am so sick!
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you said you were addicted to alcohol? Xanax is in a class of drugs called Benzodiazapines which are similar to the effects of alcohol..so it is very possible to be addicted to xanax even if you were not taking it very long..Also you should never take any medication a "friend" gives you..you need to be treated by a doctor for anxiety..also you said you were addicted too marijuana?? that could be one of the causes of the anxiety that is one of the side effects of using marijuana..anyways it sounds like you are self treating and self diagnosing and you need to be seen by a doctor to take care of the problems that you are having..you could try taking benydryl at night to help you sleep untill you see a doctor/psych.....Good luck
You might try taking one Xanax and see how you feel. If your anxiety clears up in 15 miutes or so, you MAY be experiencing some measure of Xanax WD. Then again, the Xanax may just be mediating your anxiety from another cause.
In my experience, anxiety is a terrible WD symptom to deal with because it's so difficult to zero-in on the cause. If I were a betting man, I'd wager it has something to do with your alcohol habit.
One more thought: I know with me, as much as I love the stuff, pot can sometimes give me anxiety to the point where I don't want to leave the house or talk on the phone.
Any of this ring a bell?
Thomas
and I have to say once agin for the millionth time
'You Are The Man' man......
As far as other drugs go i drink about 3 drinks a night. The pot does make me nervous at first but after an hour I feel perfect. I also tried 2 mg of melatonin to sleep last night. maybe that is what made me feel like this. I haven't had a xanax in 5 days and was only taking .5mg every couple of days. The most I took at one time was 1mg I took about 30 .5 tabs over a 45 day period. It doesn't seem like much but I am sensitive and may have taken large doses in the past.
Thomas
Thomas
Seek help if the anxiety doent go away!!
Good luck!
I have managed to cut down to approx 8 30mg codeine tabs per day (I was using hydros, etc -- 25+ per day). I feel OK, but I fear that if this self-tapering goes on much longer (it's been about 2-3 weeks), I'll blow it (go back to stronger opiates). Any idea how bad I'll feel if I just stop the codeine cold turkey now? I REALLY don't want to blow it.
I'd also like to apologize for not having been supportive to others -- I'm on this site every day. I guess I've been so wrapped up in my own problems, that I haven't taken the time to stop and help others -- I'll try to be more supportive in the future (sometimes I really don't have any advice, though).
Peace to all of you -- I hope to get to know you better in the near future. Thanks again.
Sugarbeens
sugarbeens: I'm so glad you're out of the woods Xanax-wise! Be glad. Be very glad. To answer your question, I'm 48 and my habit is probably 31 years old by now. My habit may qualify for social security before I do! As for helping me, you already help me by just being here. Beyond that, unless you're hiring out-of-work writers, there's not much you can do.
It seems to me you weren't using that many hydros a day. Unless you drink a lot, I'd be surprised if you have any serious liver trouble. Many substances can cause your liver enzyme count to rise above the normal range. If you do have an elevated count, in addition to cutting out the Tylenol, get some Milk Thistle capsules from the health food store and stay on them for a few months. The liver is capable of healing itself in many cases, but scientific studies indicate that Milk Thistle promotes liver healing. It's cheap insurance. I'd start taking it now. I think just knowing you're doing something good for that beleaguered organ will make you feel better.
As for living with pain, one thought: when dealing with chronic pain, it's a bad idea to wait until you're in agony to take the meds. Many times, it's too little, too late, and you can end up using larger doses just to get on top of the pain. Putting yourself through that pain every day will also weaken your body's defenses. Pain can compromise your body's ability to heal and affect your immune system. Theoretically, untreated pain could contribute to any liver problems you may have. Many times, anticipatory dosing with pain meds will give you better results. Take care, sugarpie!
Thomas
Have to agree with Bmac!!!!
Take Care Brother
percs
Thomas
I can close my office door and chill out for periods of time at work, if necessary. And I could also use some Valium while working (not a lot, as I need to be coherent). I have a doc that will give me Valium, as he thinks I'm too stressed out from work right now, anyway. By the way, I'm 37, from New England -- and I really appreciate your help. I used to abuse alcohol, but got over that a couple of years ago (if you don't count a few occasions when I had one glass of wine with dinner). I have your recipe, btw -- plan on using it.
EVERYONE: Has anyone here gone cold turkey and managed to still work?
I suggest that you use the Valium sparingly at work. Benzos and opiates tend to cross-potentiate each other. If you wind up "acting out", forgeting whole conversations, or just falling asleep at your desk, it's probably the combination of drugs. Best policy is to only use the Valium after work.
It sounds like you have an absorbing job, which will help you from dwelling on drugs. However, one thing to be ready for when you do stop: you're used to being at work on Vicodin or Codeine. When you're not, you'll go through a period of extreme cravings until you build up some positive sober work memories. Stay in touch. You're really doing very well. You're just in too much of a hurry. Give your brain a break. Go slow.
Thomas
I quit 8-10 T3's p. day on Jan 20. Once again, Thomas beats me to it ;-) and I agree with his advice, especially if you have to work.
When I quit, the 1st day was just mildly disorienting. That nt. & the next 2 days I barely remember. Not just the runs, sweats, chills, headache, etc. but I was *very* disoriented. I also felt like someone had thrown a hot, wet blanket over me. Nasty stuff but for me, that was over after 3 days. By day 4, I was positively giddy & Day 5, malaise to the nth degree.
I'm self employed & work at home & am very glad I did plan on a week off & I could bumble around in my robe or zone out in front of the TV. While I did go for a walk, etc. on Day 5, I really did need that week. After that, there's a bridge assortment of more minor w/d's that occur that I expect are different for everyone. I'll just say the sweats & chills continued & I felt very depressed & weak, which I now understand to be normal.
Going cold turkey, I'd say it took about a mo. before I really felt right body & soul. However, as Thomas said, that's when the cravings start. One time I slipped in the kitchen & re-injured my tailbone (broke it last yr.) & another time, a migraine had me take some T3's which I now deeply regret. As soon as the pain was gone I found myself trying to justify re-filling the scrip, or buying OTC codeine which we can do in Canada. Thankfully, I didn't but I can't say I've been 100% codeine free since I quit.
I tried tapering but got too impatient but if you can do it, I say go for it. You can always make the leap when you get further down. Maybe be a little more aggressive. Enough to avoid most of the w/ds without forfeiting your sanity or work. If you're at 8 now & feeling good, maybe go for 7 for a week & then 6 & drop 1 tab a day every wk. If I had the self discipline that's the rate I'd have gone.
BTW; you'll feel positively zesty once you're through it!
Best wishes,
Dancing in the Dark
Thomas
Thomas
Dancing...
Thomas you lucky man!
Talk like that will surely get you banned!
Kilo
Everytime you leave me a message I blush and laugh.
Needless to say, I LIKE that in a man!
How are ya, sweetness?
The Dancing Broad from the North
Gee, you guys are tough! I was hoping you'd say that 8 30mg codeine tabs per day are nothing -- and it would be fine to just stop. Seriously, I appreciate your honesty. I did pick up some Valium from my doc today, but didn't have a clue how much to get or what strength. So I got 5mg tabs. I took one at the end of the work day (still taking the codeine), and just felt a bit more relaxed -- so I think I'll handle it well, overall (when and if I decide to go cold turkey, which could be tomorrow). I know, I know -- the tapering has been going well, so I should keep going... Psychologically, I feel strong right now -- I want to take advantage of that. Also, after researching "unsupervised" tapering, I know the odds are against me. I don't think I'm special or different from anyone else addicted to opiates, so I think I've just been lucky. FYI -- I've been using opiates almost daily for 4 months now. I wish there was a way to live chat about this -- it would be really helpful for people going thru wd -- maybe I should set up my own live chat site? I'm sure I could do it -- let me know what you think about that. Didn't mean to get off on a tangent. I guess I'd like to know how much Valium per day people usually take when going through cold turkey wd -- can you point me in the right direction? I can go out and look up recommended doses, etc, but I'd like some feedback from those who've gone through it. Thanks again for all of your support -- I'm still not sure if/when I'll go cold turkey, but wish me luck! How long have the 2 of you been "clean" -- and what is your history (if you don't mind me asking). Also (once again if you don't mind telling me) where are you from? As I said, I'm from New England. Have to run, sorry for being so long winded -- I'm getting anxious just thinking about stopping completely....Peace -- hope you are both well.
I didn't mean to discourage you in any way. As for Thomas, well, far be it for me to speak for him ;-) but he is pretty hard core...:-) No, he's this board's sage and wit but don't ever tell him I said that.
I think we both wanted to give you the honest skivvy because as far as I'm concerned, it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
As pertaining your opening sentence, it would indeed be fine for you to stop right now. You won't die from opiate withdrawal tho you may have errant moments where you wish you had. But hey, no pain, no gain! But why put yourself thru angst when you can largely avoid it?
I'm in Vancouver, BC (LOVE New England & spent heaps of time in Boston & some in NH) & our nationalized med. has a free Detox place. I call them whenever I'm suffering drug related angst & they are terrific. When I inquired about codeine withdrawal, I was told by the MD on staff it is different for *everyone*. Some cruise thru in a matter of days, some longer & much had to do with how long you took it. You said 4 mos.? As in, 120 days? I'm 42 & still recall my late teens when mother brought me a scrip bottle with 100 T3's for my cramps. The directions said, "Take as needed." 1st time I took one, wow, not only were my cramps gone, or I no longer cared, but la dee da, indeedydoo. And then I needed it for my 30 day a mo. cramps.
Didn't use codeine thru the latter part of my 20's as I was in the US (we can buy OTC codeine here) & I didn't really have headaches etc. But since 30, it's just been ever escalating, with me of late, having mixed scrip T3's & the OTC, totaling 10 T3's a day & I'm 105 lbs, meaning I should have been getting the big whallop (T! :-) but I wasn't. And then valium, percocette, sleeping pills & still fiorinal. As to the rest of my history, well, I assure you it is most untoward ;-) but if you scroll up a tad & look for a msg from Dancing in the Dark to you, you'll find someone's info. about Ms. Dancing's "codeine connection" of late. Long late.
Here's a thought. Since you're a happy camper on 8, why don't you cut to 7 now? Stay there a wk. You should hardly notice any difference. In another wk. cut to 6 & then, gee, can't you take 2 on a Fri., & "be sick" for just Mon & Tues.? That gives you very close to 5 days. You could even work at home if need be.
As to how much valium to take, you'll have to ask my humble pardner in this missive, Sir Thomas. He really knows about this but let me remind you, valium is very addictive & a bear to go off, even at 15 mg. a day for 3 wks. Sometime you should ask me about going off 90 mg. A DAY cold turkey!
Best wishes & feel free to ask questions.
Dancing
I plagiarized myself from another thread:
As for the Valium dosing: the actual dose of Valium depends on your own response to it. The main purpose of the benzo is to mediate your anxiety, help you sleep and, basically, keep your ass in the house and out of the pharmacy. However, benzos such as Valium will, in conjunction with all the hot baths you can stand, help ease the body aches. I’d try two 5mg Valium for starters and see how it affects you. You want to be pleasantly dopey, but not unconscious. You’ll know more once you’re doing the detox and learn what 10mg of Valium does to you. You may need to scale it up during the first couple of days, but go easy. Don’t do it compulsively. Remember, the idea is to start on a sedating dose and taper over the next 4 days or so. Read more about it in the recipe.
Dancing master, how dare you Canadians actually get a doctor on the phone, let alone a detox MD! What’s up with that? In the good ole USA, you have to put a gun to an MD’s head to get him on the horn. And the folks at the detox place were terrific? You mean terrifically judgmental mercenary dickless assholes, don’t you? Because that’s what we have here. We actually send them to school for that: Judgmental Mercenary Dickless Assholes 101, page 28 in your course catalog. Yeah, that’s the American Way, eh?
Sounds like you have a sensible system in Canada -- I basically agree with Thomas's perspective of the US medical system when it comes to substance abuse, but I'd express it a little differently :).... When I quit drinking a couple of years ago, the worst part for me was the first 2 weeks (the first 3 days were the absolute worst). Once I got over the physical part, I really didn't have a bad time staying off of the stuff. Sure, I thought about it, but I realized that I needed to find other ways to chill out -- and I did. Right now, I feel so much better on the 8 30mg codeine tabs per day than I did taking a ton of hydros -- I feel like I have some control over my actions, and I'm in a surprisingly good mood. BUT, I know I have to make the step to NO opiates. I'm thinking of stopping on Thursday -- if Friday is too tough to work, I'll just leave early. I just wrapped up a big project at work, so I'm under minimal stress (working for me is actually "good" stress, but I know I'll need to take it easy for a few days). So, that's what I'm planning on. Hey, if I don't succeed, I can try again -- it took me more than one try to quit drinking.
Hey, are you implying that you went off of 90mg of Valium cold turkey?!?! I don't have a lot of experience with benzos in general, but that must have been something -- what happened to you when you went through that? Tell me about it (if and when you feel like it) -- I'd really like to know (it seems impossible to me). What kind of work do you do, btw?
Thomas,
I'm feeling strong these days because a lot of good things have been happening in my life lately, and I just wrapped up a big project at work. I'm also feeling a lot healthier using the amount of codeine that I'm using now compared to the tons of hydros, etc that I was using. And sure, I have opiates in my system, but there are other factors involved. I know that you guys are trying to prepare me for the worst, and I appreciate it. Emotionally, I do feel strong now and think I should take advantage of that -- or at least try. Physical discomfort bothers me MUCH less when I'm feeling good emotionally. Everyone is different, but I know that I can overcome a lot more physical discomfort when my mind is "healthy".
To both of you: Keep in touch -- you have no idea how much knowing that you guys are there helps me out. No preaching from you guys -- I really appreciate that. Enjoy the evening -- I'll let you know what I decide to do Thursday, but I think I'm going to go for it. Peace and Love....
Dancing - have been meaning to tell you - your suggestion about the epsom salt baths was wonderful - I've taken several of them, and come out of them feeling like a new-born babe. Thank you for recommending them.
I LOVE THIS FORUM!!! So many fart smellers...(Oops- I mean smart fellows)...smile. ....forgive me the lame joke - courtesy of my teenage son....heh-heh.
Love you all, Lisabet
Yeah, after I've been soaked, I too feel like a new babe!
Clearly, your son has a remarkable propensity to let it out, however unobtrusively and I applaud mother's who teach their son's to really let 'er rip!
Yes, many of these chaps seem to be rather fetching, n'est-ce pas?
Glad you wrote almost as much as having finally made your acquaintance.
All the very best & take care of yourself!
Dancing
I've always enjoyed your posts - I feel like I'm reading Bridgett Jones Diary...smile...you do have a way with words.
Yeah, my son has a way of letting it rip, sometimes unfortunately. I got a call from one of his teachers yesterday telling me he is a bit, well, too much outspoken (a.i.--mouthy)..smile. My ex likes to tell me that I made a mistake by letting him voice his opinions at a very young age...(I'm beginning to think he was right; although I'd never admit it to him....ha) Like most parents, I think I'm not cut out for it, but hopefully he'll turn out half-way decent. As a divorced mom, I realize if he turns out to be a juvinille dequiant (sp) it'll be because of me - if he turns out OK - it'll be in spite of me...know what I mean?....smile. Just can't win... Take care, Love, Lisabet
As to what do I do? Well, sometimes I tell ppl I'm in aluminum siding or that I type - a lot. In truth, I'm a hack writer, or so it feels these days. Prior to that, I started a biz - quite by accident - in Vancouver organizing computer standarads conferences for mostly IEEE & A.N.S.I. I inadvertently specialized in networking (IEEE 802) and Unix, while they were still unworthy of their name...ahem. At that time, no one had heard of FDDI, SCSI, Ethernet, et al & I rec'd all this biz strictly by acclimation. That & the fact there was no competition. Because all my clients & conferences were in the U.S. & me, being me, moved to Silicon Valley for 8 yrs. I traveled far too much, worked even harder, continued to publish, went to a "cool school" in Palo Alto, took writing classes, taught them...you get the picture. Frankly, after about 5 yrs., I was bored & tired & HAD to get back to that writinng thing. Most fortuitously, SCSI & FDDI were in the bag & Unix was going down...so I didn't have to fire any clients & over the yrs., have continued consulting & doing the odd - oh! - mtg for 802. Many of those guys remain very close friends so 'twas not for naught.
So, writing it was & I moved to Orcas Island, in the San Juan Islands for 2 years. It was an amazing experience, barring a not-so-little stalking incident leading to a car accident. Instead of my move-to-be to NY, I had to set up a false trail & literally run, to "escape". Still waiting for my g.card & in very bad shape from the accident (vertigo...this is how I know I know valium!) I sprinted home to Vcr for "just a few mos."
Ah, but life had its way with me! I'd forgotten the 50% taxes &, well, here's an equation:
Canada Neutered Cat
U.S. X
Answer: Cda divided by X = NO passion.
With many a slip 'tween the cup and the lip, that's the long & very short of it.
OK, now I get to lecture you, a sport which I know you enjoy.
Yeah, yeah, Thomas is right about 99.9% of things - only on this board of course - but as far as taking valium, espec. 10 mg. for starteres....FORGET IT! You've already demonstrated "problematic usage" of alcohol, hydros and...(ah, that's enough) you should not be taking it, espec. because you don't need it. Being problematic ;-) makes you more vulnerable to valium, et al & while, no expert on hydros, I'm going to assume they & codeine provided you with not just "mood" enhancing qualities but relaxation as well. Well, valium was MADE for that. Hey, didn't it come out in the early 50's & for yrs. wherein it was widely prescribed for housewives, weary of Shake 'n Bake & ironing sheets? Women still use it far more than men. Sure, it'll make you feel la dee da while detoxing anytime but re: d/ting, if I can go off it without any help, you sure as hell can. 10 mg. is a *lot* for a startwer dose & you'll need more before you get the 2nd syllable of "detox" out of your mouth. And while you're going thru the mildly unpleasant aftermath starting Tues., you'll have every excuse to keep taking it & you will be physically addicted within aa few wks. Yes, I know about that too, only I'm talking 15 mg. a day.
Pull up your pantyhose, girl! With only 4 mos. usage of codeine, this should be very easy or, as I always call such endeavors, "a character enhancing exercise." Give the valium to a friend & if you really need them, don't call her!
Oh, and yes, I did c/t (and succeeded) off 90 mg. of valium a day. You know that book about valium abuse, called, "I'm Dancing as Fast as I Can?" Well, as I oft muttered, "Yeah, well I danced faster." But that slouch author only quit off 30 mg. a day & wound up in a psych. hospital for mos. I mean, brilliantly written tho the boook undeniably is, how can I respect such a slouch? Actually, here's a homework assignment. Read that book this weekend, if for no other reason than it is extraordinarily well written.
You really want to hear about going from 90-0 overnight? My EM is ***@****. BTW, that's also in case you need some on-line support during your detox, or whenever.
Take care & congrats on choosing to quit 8 T3's a day without valium! :-)
And BTW, we're ALL here for you. You're going to lick this puppy w/out valium & then feel *very* proud of yourself. That, I promise.
Best,
Dancing........
Rousseau said (again fitting).
Every man has the right to risk his own life
In order to save it.
Bloody hell. Now I'm going to *have* to find out who said that other one. Surely, not Monsieur Rousseau?
A personal fave (went over better pre 9/11).
Praise Allah, but first tie your camel to a post.
Sufi proverb
Rousseau said (again fitting).
Every man has the right to risk his own life
In order to save it.
Bloody hell. Now I'm going to *have* to find out who said that other one. Surely, not Monsieur Rousseau?
A personal fave (went over better pre 9/11).
Praise Allah, but first tie your camel to a post.
Sufi proverb
Thomas
Thanks for the kind words and the support. To better prepare myself for tomorrow and the days to come, I decided to leave work early today. My mind is full of great visions of me being healthy and strong. I am nervous, but I'm really excited, also. You sound very talented. Being an electrical engineer by degree (I also do business development these days), I'm obviously familiar with IEEE and ANSI standards. Thanks for sharing some of your personal info -- I'd share more of my own, but I'm a bit preoccupied today....
As far the detox goes, I'm not counting Valium out yet -- I'll see how it goes. I honestly don't seem to get a high off of them. Lack of sleep will be a problem, so if I really need to take some, I will -- I'm not out to torture myself. I understand VERY well what you are saying, though. When I quit drinking, I used a small amount of Xanax for a few days and didn't crave it at all once I was through the detox.
The thing that I found very helpful was taking a good calcium/magnesium supplement. When I used the right type of supplement (such as CalMax), I could actually feel a difference in my muscles within 30-40 minutes. Don't know if it will help with this wd, but I'll certainly let everyone know (Maybe I can get Sir Thomas to add it to his recipe :). Fortunately for me, my weekend home has a full sized Jacuzzi in the master bathroom -- that will probably be very convenient. I noticed a thread about Epsom salts -- should I try that, also? If so, is there a particular type? -- I'm thinking Epsom salt is Epsom salt so it won't matter -- let me know if there is a certain "type" I should use. I've tried the L-Tyrosine from Thomas's recipe, and it works to clear my mind (I'm not a coffee drinker, so it will come in handy after the main wd). I also have other natural supplements, and plan on pampering myself throughout the next 4 days.
And yes, I would like to hear about your 90-0 Valium detox -- must have been incredible. Thanks for the email address. I hope you are around this weekend. I think tomorrow will be pretty easy for me -- I expect tomorrow night may be a bit tough....but I'm not going to worry about it -- I'm as prepared as can be. I do have an alternate plan in case this doesn't work, but I'm not planning on having to use it -- more about that later. Why are you taking Valium now -- medical reason or are you tapering yourself down from a higher dose? Peace -- I'll let you know how it goes. Take care of yourself -- thank you so much.....
Thomas
Like many of us detoxing off fiorinal, we go on Neurontin in the latter detox stages. Having started this aft, I feel positively bloooey. Almost stoned, or when you're hooped both literally & figuratively. So, pardon moi!
My brain is stretching here but apparently it works on your pain receptors to reduce pain (Sounds good enough ;-)reduces headaches, somewhat calms you down, helps you sleep & is completely non-addictive. Seeing how many of my F compadres (I can't even spell it!) have fared, I couldn't help but ask my doc & he was very enthused. Apparently, at the beginning, it causes drowsiness 'n stuff & yes, methinks it does. I've only taken 1 & have 2 more to go today which will no doubt lead me to sing in the rain, even tho it isn't raining.....
*No, I don't take valium & have been off it for 2.5 yrs.
*YES to the Epsom salts. It's magnesium sulfate & from my research, I don't think it matters what kind you get. Do you have the right recipe? If not, let me know & I'll fwd tomorrow.
*I'm around tomorrow & will be working tomorrow night so E.M. me if you wish. Weekend I'm in & out but DO NOT hesitate to give me an e-holler, OK?
*With your attitude, your detox should go very smoothly, even with valium :-) You'll be thru it in no time & do not worry or "wait" for detox to begin. I've made that mistake before & while sorely disapppointed nothing happened when anticipated, I was even sorrier a few days later when it did.
*How many IEEE ppl do you want to bet we both know? We'll fimd out.
*YOU GO GIRL! And for heaven's sake, keep me posted.
Wishing you the best,
Joods
Seriously, while we struggling or recovering benzo addicts tend to demonize Valium and its relatives, for short-term purposes such as opiate detox, Valium is really a very safe and effective drug. The recipe recommends Valium over the first 4 to 5 days, with the dosage gradually tapered down to zero. No one is going to get hooked on Valium in 4 days.
Thomas
Jim
*In the world of valium, benzos are considered the toughest to quit. Ask ANY doctor.
*So, why play with fire? If it's for detox, sure, it can make the ride much more pleasant but at what [potential] price?
*It can take years before many cognitive functions are restored. This is medically proven & well documented. I also know this from first hand knowledge.
*Addicts have a tendency to switch poisons. Maybe I'm the only one who swtiched to something I despised because I needed "something, anything". And eventually, I fell in love.
*Valium sits in your pretty little cells for 3 months causing all kinds of angst. When I went c/t from 90-0 my vertigo was gone & once I got my brain back 3 mos. later (no one recommends that kind of quitting but I knew better!) all that mattered to me was that my vertigo was gone. And it was. At that point, business was fabulous, my withdrawal seemed gone & no vertigo. 2 wks. later I was at a mtg in San Jose which was easy & for some long-time client/friends. Guess what started to return real slow? I seriously wanted to throw myself out the hotel room window.
After crawling home, I went to an addiction doc, my ENT & neurologist & they ALL said the vertigo had just been suppressed because valium takes 3 mos. to fully exit the bod & even the addiction doc recommended me going back on it at a much lower dose. And he was TOTALLY anti-drug! I hung on for 2 wks. in full throttle spin cycle, trying to work & finally succumbed. Yes, it worked & I cried that whole first day back.
*Withdrawal is a ***** no matter how you slice it but I feel using valium is not necessary. It's playing with fire. An addictive personality might quit Drug A & find valiunm is better than nothing and...
It took me 8 mos. to detox off 20 mg. a day 2.5 yrs. ago & after it was over...? Not too bad but I did have rebound insomnia, memory blanks, confusion, etc. For valium, when the vertigo was over, my love for valium was over too. I never think about it except with regret. I wouldn't touch it, or any benzo, ever, because I know how much it screws you up & how long it takes you to straighten out.
I do understand & respect your point. I just think, for addicts, valium is too dangerous to even try. It's like an alcoholic who is "just having a beer even though I hate it." RIGHT!
Well, we can agree to disagree, n'est-ce pas?
Barbi Babe
In my experience, the vast majority of people trying to quit a significant opiate habit cold turkey simply will not succeed without effective sedation during the first 4 or 5 days. You can exhort people coming down from 20, 30 or 40 Vicodin per day habits to quit without using a potentially addictive sedative, but you're naive to believe that they even hear you. People in the depths of narcotic addiction are in a place where reason and prudence have no meaning.
You cannot effectively advise an addict using the language of sobriety. You must speak their language. And theirs is the language of need -- primal, all encompassing, overwhelming need. Telling a Vicodin or OxyContin addict that they must not only quit cold turkey, but must also do it without any meaningful assistance is pointless. They won't do it, so why say it?
I'm interested in results, not ideology. Ideology only works in an ideal world. As to the danger of using Valium for opiate detox, I don't know of a single person who became addicted to Valium by using it for a 5-day opiate detox, including myself. I'm sure they're out there, but everything I know tells me they are exceptions to the rule.
It might strengthen your argument if you suggested an alternative to using Valium -- a widely available, non-addictive substance capable of providing the same level of sedation as Valium. I don't actually expect you to propose one because I know it doesn't exist.
Playing with fire using Valium to get off Vics and Oxys? Potentially, yes. But it is often the only way most of us ever make it out of the hell of opiate addiction.
So, does this mean our engagement is off?
Thomas
Thomas
First off: I'm a little off myself today. A few of my F buds go to a neurologist in Boston who deals with headache disorders & med abuse & overuse. One has been off since Thanksgiving after a 20 yr. habit & the other has gone from 20 F#3 to 5 Plain a day. This doc has them on Neurontin & they swear it not only helps with withdrawal but headaches & insomnia too. She cuts them 1 tab every 2+ wks. I saw my doc yesterday & he was very enthused about this method & had heard about this tack so he put me on it & at 5F a day now, he said I should be off completely in 10 wks. HELP! Neurontin is non-addictive but I feel SO STONED. I won't even talk about last nt.! It sure makes cutting down the F easy with me feeling like a lunchbucket. So, I'm a little "off" here but nonetheless!
Your post made some very valid points & as per usual, was well written & documented.
BUT!
As per valium: I was advising pepsi who is going c/t from 8 T3's a day. In this arena, I know whereof I speak. I just stopped a 10+ a day habit Jan. 20 after countless attempts. I would NEVER EVER advise anyone on vicodin, oxycontin, etc. (I was on percocette for quite a while & went thru detox hell but it wasn't really a big deal because I was switched to F3's afterwards).;-) To speak of meds which I know nothing about is arrogant, cruel and just plain stupid. It was pepsi I was speaking to & I thought - and may well have been wrong - my posts were directed to her and for her. The woman clearly has balls & brains & one hell of a positive attitude & she, like an intelligent person, took our advice & decided she *might* take valium. That was good enough for me. Knowledge is power & no one, not even 1 of those docs ever advised me as to how dangerous valium was.
An addiction doc & myriad documentation talks about the danger of an addict "getting the taste" of another addictive substance & switching poisons. I've done this more times than I can recall. If I can sway someone away from valium & family, than I will because it is a nightmare drug.
Am I speaking the language of sobriety? Perhaps. But in this realm, I think I speak of one who has been there.
Speaking of which. Didn't you just quit valium yourself? Valium & vikes? If it was so helpful & safe to you during detox, how come you became addicted to it? Perhaps I read your missives wrong & if I did, I do apologize - sincerely.
What's the alternative to valium? There are a number of options. To name a few: Balls. Grit. Steely reserve. Determination.
Well, I must go in search of a man who can put up with my ornery ways....do you know anyone?
Joods
Kilo
Most people are not going to go on a 3-decade opiate bender puncuated by 100 Valium detoxes and two years of round-the-clock Xanax use like I did -- at least, not many people who live to talk about it.
Also, benzos are so common in our society, I rarely meet or talk to anyone over the age of 18 who hasn't sampled one of them for fun or medical purposes. Most people I talk to about opiate detox are already more than familiar with benzos. So I'm not saving them from anything by steering them away from Valium.
If there ever is a safer, equally effective and available alternative to benzos for opiate detox, then I'll suggest it instead. Of course, for those fortunate enough to have access to a medical detox, there are indeed better ways to go. (Buprenorphine, Clonodine)
You are probably right about the T3's. What I question is this: since codeine's mode of action is to be metabolized into morphine, isn't codeine WD really morphine WD? Mmmmm, 'don't really know.
Thomas
I have more to ask and say, but don't have time right now ...but I'll be back............ Peace to all of you -- take care of yourselves.....