Is subutex too strong for someone with a mild vicodin addiction?

[AO111]

I've only been of vicodin a year and a half and was only up to about 3 pills a day (but I took them in quarter pieces so it was constantly in my system) My Dr. prescribed me 2 mg sublingual subutex to get me off the vicodin. I've only taken them in quarters as well because I feel like it's too strong. I called my nurse today and told her it was making me extremely drowsy, dizzy, and giving me a bad headache. She asked how long after my last dose of vicodin did I wait to start the sub. I said 1 day and she said that's what causing the problem that it's preferable to wait 48-72 hrs. I said I'd been on the sub two days now and she said to take a quarter right then, another in 2 hrs and another in two hrs after that and to call her back tomorrow morning. I didn't tell her that I had a few vicodin left and started taking those again last night. So if I do give the sub another try I'll wait longer this time but I still think it's too strong for me compared to how small my vicodin habit was.

[AO111]

You all are great. Going back to alcohol is not something I'm really concerned with. I mean yeah there is a chance but I feel it's a small one. I really don't care for the way alcohol makes me feel anymore. It used to make me feel good and "up" now it just makes me feel "down" and sleepy lol. Plus sometimes it actually gives me anxiety.

[overopiates]

Im sure im repeating but it is not a good idea to go from vikes to subs.THATS POINTLESS.U can be over the physical n a few days from vikes the subs take months to come off of properly.throw the subs away.Taper off the vikes.Look at the thomas recipe.Get something for ur anxiety and lose ALL THE ADDICTION AT ONCE.NOT TRADE IT.

[Jimmy1975]

Well said my friend !

[VICourageous]

Hi again went to turn this off got to go to meeting and it is dumping snow. Yes is right. I go to aa/na I have not had a drink in over 8 yrs wow I wonder why Ha1!I did not want to reck my wired up buzz.....BUT Last night i went to both and at the AA this girl had a mason jar with this red juice in it. Wow talk about a trigger, I used to drink wine and carry it in a mason jar when I went to the river or such. I shared because they know my history and they all laughted and she moved it off the table...I will tell u the brain played the tape back and I could taste the wine and remember the buzz on it. So I said to them this is the reason I keep coming back. It would just take that one drink and away I go again...Triggers, stress, drama ect are what I try to stay away from. Life is out there but you can choose where u go...but what god gives you is a different path...Faith...
Ok gals got to go...Hey keep in touch Ha! Ha! We need to all get together for a big BBQ Ha!!!!!!!

[YesLife4Me]

Be careful you don't go back and substitute the alcohol with vicodin again.  Addiction is a slippery slope.  It tells us all kinds of lies about how we can handle it, just one, we know what we are doing, etc, etc.   I came from a long line of addiction and substance abuse too.  I thought I was the only one who escaped it until I was introduced to opiate therapy.  Wish I had never set foot in that place.  At first I thought I was in heaven...then I realized it was a pathway to a living he11.  

[AO111]

Yeah I get extreme fatigue with w/d too. Addiction ***** and I have a looong family history of it. You'd think I'd want to avoid addictive substances but... lol  A few years back I was addicted to alcohol but when I started taking the vicodin my alcohol craving disappeared.

[YesLife4Me]

The physical is no cake walk, but compared to the mental part afterwards, it seems like it.  You really have to endure the wd (physical & mental) to understand it.  On paper it seems easy.  To do it is another.  No matter how high or low or how long you been on opiates.  Everyone reacts differently.  I've said this many times "I wish Dr's had to go through this before handing out the scrips so easily".  There is no 'easy' way out of wd.  Even with subs or methadone, you still have to come off that.  It's just substituting one drug for another.  I believe you are better off tapering than doing those.  Wish you the best!  Keep us posted.  

[AO111]

Thanks :)

[VICourageous]

Anixety and restless sleep seems to be one of the last stages of w/d for me...But i came off of alot of substances that I used for a long time and I am no spring chic. The mental will take time. It takes time to flip the brain back. But you seemed to have not been on a high does or for very long...Nurse girl is right you might be able to c/t with out to much issue for a long time...Just ride the wave we all did it and they can help you with what to get to help you feel better somewhat...Just keep posting OK
God Bless
vickie

[AO111]

HA! and the craziest things of all Vickie is my Dr. (GP) "specializes" in psychiatry and addiction lol.

[VICourageous]

OH MY Doctors doctors I wonder sometimes if they have ever experienced a w/d. I know alot of them just read about it..Like someone posted here not to long ago. If they only had the experience they might know more !!!!
Hey girls are u following me Ha!! Thanks for the PM tiger...Remember alot of knowledge comes from experience... I am sure they have heard alot from people..BUT doing and seeing ????
vickie

[AO111]

I guess I could call my Dr. office tomorrow and tell my nurse I feel like the sub is too strong and ask if I can get a script of vicodin to taper. The physical part of w/d isn't too bad for me, just joint and muscle aches, restless legs and insomnia but the psychological part is difficult. I start having a lot of panic attacks.

[nursegirl6572]

Also he told me the subs are easier to come off of than vicodin. .

I respectfully disagree.  Suns have a MUCH longer half life, plus, they fill the opiate receptors differently.  Sub detox tends to be longer, and more difficult, just generally speaking.

[AO111]

Also he told me the subs are easier to come off of than vicodin.

[AO111]

No he's not against me tapering but he asked me if I wanted to be off the vicodin and I said yes so he prescribed me the 2 mg subs.

[YesLife4Me]

Is your Dr against you tapering?   Did he only give you the 2mg of sub?   What was the plan with those?  Just take a few days and then stop?   If so, I don't believe from all that I have read on here that will help.  You will still have opiates (subs) in your system and still have to get those out and will still have to endure some sort of withdraw.   Maybe I'm wrong in how I understood that?  

[nursegirl6572]

To be honest, you really wouldn't need a whole lot to taper, you're already on a fairly low dose.  When you say you take 3 pills a day, is that the regular vicodin (5mg of hydrocodone)?  If so, that's a pretty low dose.

While there's certainly no magic way around w/ds, I think comparitively, your w/d's would be much more tolerable with the vicodin versus the sub.  Just my unofficial personal opinion.

I would think if you could taper down a little more, you could jump off and handle the w/ds fairly well.  Something to think about anyway.

[VICourageous]

YES I agree with the above posting........It seems that subs..Drs & Phams are just out for the money in your case. It would be alot easier from my experience to just tapper from the opiates. If I can go c/t from methedone and other subsatbces you can do it....I took the sub for only 4 days and ripped the strip down to 2mgs I hated it. It jacked me up and it made the 4th drug to detox out of my body..It was not fun....
Good Luck You can do it...
Stay posted and everyone here can give you some advise on what, how and why to use to get better....
vickie
PS if u r still on opiates do a slow taper it works if u work it RIGHT ?

[AO111]

Yeah I was thinking of skipping the subs and tapering off the vicodin but I'd have to get my Dr. to give me a new script for tapering.

[nursegirl6572]

I wanted to add too...that when you started the sub, you did so incorrectly, as you took that first dose only 6 hours after a vicodin, which caused you to feel terrible.  Since then, you've been extremely anxious about the sub and how it makes you feel (which I explained is probably largely a psychosomatic reaction.)

Why don't you just skip the subs all together and either go cold turkey, or taper down further off the vicodin?  Have you even tried that?

[YesLife4Me]

My understanding is that taking subs to get over a vicodin addiction is like bringing a kazooka to replace a bb gun.   I'm surprised your Dr went this route with you on such a low amount over a pretty short period of time.   Subs are usually used for someone using much stronger opiates in very large quantities for a long period of time.   Hopefully someone with more experience with subs can come along and give better advice.  

[nursegirl6572]

I told you already that you have to give this some time and allow yourself to adjust, not to mention, I think your biggest issue, and the cause of most of the symptoms is anxiety.  The last thing you should be doing is taking Vicodin while you're trying to adjust to the subs.  You're going to be all over the place.

You need to pick something and stick to it for a while.  It takes time.  I personally would have never recommended sub for your habit, but that's your decision.