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182493 tn?1348052915

Isn't this just the icing on the freaking cake..

Well as some of you may know. I have been off pain meds for almost 6 months. I had legit pain when I started and throughout.  After I stopped I had even more pain. 10x the amount some days. I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in August. I have been doing TONS of research on Fibromyalgia. Those of you that know me well know that I can research the hell out of something if I set my mind to it. Well last night I am laying in bed reading my newest book on Fibromyalgia. And I get into the ''causes'' section.  Those of us with the syndrome know there isn't ''one'' cause for everyone with it. So in this section, I read that a cause of Fibromyalgia is... listen to this.. DRUG WITHDRAWAL!!!  I couldn't breathe. I got all sweaty but cold instantly. I not only got off pain pills this year but also anti depressants and xanax. (those of you who know me, know I don't do anything half way. Thats why they call me "full tilt fladdict'')  Kidding I make jokes when I am upset. Thats why Nauty and I get along.
So.. my question to the panel is.. What do you make of this???
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Avatar universal
Current thinking on fibromyalgia is that there is "central sensitization", an increase in sensitive in persons with fibro to pain neuroemmiters. Of course there is no real evidence or research to confirm this. I am clean from vikes for 75 days. i read where it takes approximately 90 days for your brain to resestablish itself- but who knows what long term damage was done.

That said since traditional medicine does not know the cause, they treatment is to reduce pain.
My mom is 82 and suffered with a "diagnosis" of fibro for 10 years. I memtioned a disorder named TMS for which I was diagosed for back pain and helped me greatly. Recent literature suggests fibro as an extrme case of TMS. There is a new book by a Dr. John Sarno regarding TMS and other related syndromes. It might be another ook to read in your search for information.

Can't hurt.



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Avatar universal
i think my family has some genetic pre-disposition to depression and insanity, after i quit the pain pills i suffered very badly with depression (suicidal thoughts) for months, i eventually went to a phyciatrist and got some anti depressants. i do believe the stress of withdrawl can trigger / inflame any underlying issues, i also believe we can heal those issues if we keep strong and do the next 'right' thing.
Helpful - 0
306455 tn?1288862071
So sorry your hurting. I'm not familiar with fibromyalgia. Does it ever go away? If it possibly was caused by withdrawls etc. I wonder if it could go away in time as your body repairs itself?
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Avatar universal
Have you ever been tested for Lyme?
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Avatar universal
FM being a set of symptoms can cover a variety of "illnesses" that come from different sources, and have different roots.  It makes sense to me that all you described could upset the balance in your body and cause FM style symptoms.  There's a kind of core syndrome to FM and CFS and then other similar stuff, syndromes, are put into it.  It's part of why researchers have such a hard time nailing it down.  I tend to think you may not be in the core but rather have a post-withdrawal syndrome.  FM/CFS are corisol-irreguarlity based, so all the stuff you went through could easily cause stuff for you too.  I'm a little hesitatant to add a new label if this is, post w/d, post stress syndrome not the core CFS/FM, since as Savas said it can tend to reinforce itself and lead to time on treatments that aren't helpful.  However, since many FM/CFS treatments are basic improving and supporting the body treatments and adjustments for the reactions from prior stress, there may be good ones in there for you.  I was trying earlier to say that there's a lot that works with FM/CFS so it can be a good starting point for improvement instead of a depressing...

Accidents often precipitate FM, but it's generally within days or months of the accident.  Having them in the past but without FM generating afterward, doesn't mean much for later generation of FM.  At least from folks I've talked with over the years.  The month with mono means you weren't predisposed to get it at that time or it would have been months/year with it.

On the other hand, CFS is known to trigger off of chemical exposure and you're meds would be chemicals...  Also, it does tend to form in people who have had long term "low grade background" stressors that they couldn't just fix and walk away from.  There's also a genetic or pre-disposing factor.  So two people exposed to the same stressors and one might get a heart condition and another get FM.

I've noticed what helps people with FM varies a bit with what version of symptoms and trigger they had, so keeping that in mind might help you make this into a useful diagnosis to hone in on treatments. Some good news, a lot of treatments don't involve meds, especially for CFS since CFS folks are often too hypersensitive to be able to take them.

I'm sorry you are going through this.  It's great that you were able to get off the drugs.  I hope you can get relief of these symptoms too.
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230262 tn?1316645934
I have fibro too. Ironically I was DX'd after I had been on a course of narcotics for awhile and then stopped. I kind of believe it could be partially related to that.

Sorry to make thsi short, will write more later about this topic, but thanks so much for posting about it. I see there are lots of good responses as well.
Helpful - 0
228686 tn?1211554707
Hmmm...hmmm... I'm not sure what to make of this. I come from a perspective that truth is relative, and once you name something as a "fact" and give it a label (truth), you're in essence creating the reality of that thing in your existence. Perhaps that's to philosophical for what you're talking about, but I've been supposedly doing what I've been doing with this in mind and boggling the minds of the clinic folks who don't understand why I haven't failed (why is my success such a strange thing to them???)

I'd say keep your mind open to the possibility...well...that it's possible something else is going on.

The question now is what do you do about it? If it isn't fibro, then you've been essentially researching and treating the wrong thing. Which could explain why you're having limited success (the treatments are working partially because they apply in part to the true illness...or...the reality you've chosen is susceptible in part to the efforts you've made to shape it, but choosing the wrong reality has limited your shaping of it).

What if you have fibro...but it's mostly quiescent and the symptoms your suffering are a result of something else???
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Avatar universal
I've got CFS for 10+ years and never heard that.  (FM and CFS are very close.)  It also doesn't sound right for how they usually start and what they are like.  There's also a lot you can do to help these conditions enough though doctors tend not to even know what they are.  I've gotta run, but I'll try to come back and read more of this.  The accidents can be a trigger - but you'd know they were, not be reading about them.
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
That is so weird.  I was just thinking about duchess.  i was gonna post and ask if anyone remembered her or knows how she is doing.

Nauty............
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Avatar universal
Dear Stephanie, There is no telling how many ways our drug addiction has affected us, especially for the long-time addicts like me.  Just imagine if you were in your late 40s and still on narcotics.  At least you are young and surely have a good chance of avoiding any long-term side effects from your drug use. I think this research you have stumbled upon is so interesting - I know that I truly have chronic pain now and it is not just my body wanting more meds, I truly hurt.  I don't like to say anything though to my doctors cuz they know that what meds I am on and I am sure think I am just looking for more pills. I know we need to be narcotic-free but at the same time I also believe we have a right to be pain-free.  It sounds like you are really onto something here - the connection between withdrawal and fibromyalgia.  It makes sense - I know when I have been in withdrawal, I have suffered so that it has to be having an effect on my body long-term.  It is a shame Duchessgolden is not around anymore, huh?  Wander what she would have to say.  Hope you get to feeling better Stephanie, I just hate it that you are still having so much pain.

Love, Cindy
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Avatar universal
Thanks - I'm pretty pleased too.

You're right - a lot of things that fit into that category and you only listed what I would consider downs.  He said things that people consider ups, happy times are more stressful to the body because of the downs taking it so far down that the ups are stressful even though we don't perceive them as that way.
You've really overcome so much - you are an amazing inspiration.  It just shows that anything is possible if you are willing to work to overcome it.  

8 car accidents - you poor thing!!!
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182493 tn?1348052915
I am DAMN proud of you.... 5 days is awesome.  

Based on what i have read (ALOT) and what you said I have tons of stuff in my history to cause it. To feed the nurse in you I will list them. So really who knows. But I got worse after the detox I believe.

Stress from alcoholic mom throughout life
Month long bout with Mono in 1994
Constant strep throats and bronchitis
8 car accidents from 1986-2003
3 whiplash injuries (I read 2% of whiplash injured patients get Fibro)
Heroin addiction (1995-1999)
Stress- abusive relationship
Stress- work related
Stress- wedding
Pill Abuse
Detoxing from pain pills, AD's, and benzo's
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Avatar universal
Wow, I can imagine how that information must have shaken you to your very core.  But as I've been sitting here thinking about it from a physiology standpoint (ok, the nurse in me is never very far) it kind of makes sense for all of the reasons GaGuy lists.  My dad has fibro from a serious infection in his spinal cord after lung cancer surgery that ended up in septic shock.  His doctor told us that fibro's top cause are the three that you listed, trauma, infection and stress and that in his case his body had all three.  He also said that people get fibro that is initially thought to be of unknown origin and then a careful history reveals something in their history that had their body in a state of constant fluctuation up down up down which while the person may not consider the ups stressful, they are equally as stressful as the downs.  He said it usually involves a medical condition, medication or substance in some way that is unnatural to the body.  So, it makes sense that addiction and then withdrawal would fit into this type of up/down cycle.  I just never put those two together.  I expect the post withdrawal aches and pains, but I wonder how one person develops fibro and others do not.  I asked that question too = why my dad and not others in his same situation.  He said that if anyone could ever determine that, it was the key to Pandora's box of effective treatments.
I hope that you are able to learn things in your research that are helpful.  

I love that you are so willing to share what you learn.  Your Suboxone research was the reason I sought treatment.  Thank you for who you are and what you do.  (p.s.  no sub for almost 5 days)
Love ya.
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182493 tn?1348052915
Yes it makes total sense. That kind of info is in all the books I am reading. when I got diagnosed I bought 8 books, I am on the second to the last one.
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182493 tn?1348052915
The "believers" really depends on the doctor. Old school docs don't really "get it". Or anyone that was only medically trained in a hospital setting opposed to private practices. Rheumatologist named it Fibromyalgia in like 1990. Before that it was called a dozen other names and was pushed off as a "women's hysterical disease" which was later tested to be far from the truth. essentially, People with Fibro produce more Substance P than normal folk. Which sends more pain signals that its supposed to in the brain,  Also due to "Alpha Wave Intrusion" we don't get deep sleep to restore our mucsles which then don't get enough rest or oxygen to them.
I do not believe that I am in some kind of lingering withdrawal. However I do believe that my former heroin abuse and my more recent withdrawal with pills could be a possible cause of this hot mess.
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222369 tn?1274474635
Just think of cortisol as the opposite of seratonin. It all makes sense in a way I guess. Here's some things caused by increased stress and cortisol levels...

1. Lower your immune system so you’ll get sick faster than others
2. Slow down your thinking
3. Create blood sugar imbalances
4. Raise your blood pressure
5. Weaken muscle tissue
6. Decrease bone density
7. Increase fat in the stomach areas
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Avatar universal
Dang it.......I must be a walking vial of cortisol.  I don't know much about fibro, but it seems to me that is is kind of treated like it's not really a legit like that other disease.....**** I cant remember the name of it, but it's the one that your tired all the time.  Seems like doc's treat it like it's all in your head.  I don't know if i completely understand your post Fladdict........are you thinking you are still in some kind of withdrawal?? or maybe the opiates are the cause?? how can withdrawals cause a disease.......Sorry, I'm just a little confused, and in pain today.  First real pain since my C/T.  I am trying to make the soma work, as it always did a pretty good job before I was introduced to Vicodin.  i hope you feel better, sweetie.......soon.  

Luv,
Nauty.................
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182493 tn?1348052915
Well Ga Guy, you are right. Stress is one of the top 3 causes of Fibro. Trauma, Infections, Stress. Not only was I dealing with the pills and stress, my wedding, my job was killing me. Prior to being diagnosed I had wittled down to 94 pounds, there are pics from my wedding that you can see my entire skeleton through my skin.

Lizzie, I appreciate you calling in to the radio show. you truely are a great friend.  I had some of the Fibro symptoms prior to taking pills. But you also may be on to something.
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222369 tn?1274474635
Here's my theory, I believe that a lot of diseases/afflictions are caused by elevated cortisol levels. It's been proven that high cortisol levels causes everything from high blood pressure to crazy blood sugar levels. What causes high cortisol levels? Stress. Stress is a big byproduct of drug addiction, withdrawal, and recovery. To me, it's no wonder that we feel so bad after going through this ****. Just my theory? Whatcha think??
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186166 tn?1385259382
ok...do you remember me telling you about the dr. here that uses only natural supplements to treat her pts?   well, i did finally get through to her...and guess what?   she told me that she would not be surprised if you really didn't have fibro...that this was quite normal to have symptoms, even long term, similiar to fibromyalgia due to the withdrawals.

i know that this is not exactly what you are saying...but close.   of course, she also said that she has not seen you or worked you up...so she could not diagnose you properly.  i hear you saying that the w/d's could have brought on the fibro...who knows steph?  i just know you hurt like hell :(
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