JUST USING FOR PAIN

[Shea]

PLEASE HELP!!!  I NEED ADVISE, OPINIONS and SHARED EXPERIENCES from my fellow addicts...

I have had a multitude of major reconstructive surgeries. And have chronic pain. I have been clean for 8 weeks now off of Vicodens. Had been addicted to some extent for 23 years. When I stopped using I was taking between 15-20 Vicoden ES a day.
he mental cravings are always strong but I have fought them off. Anyhow yesterday due to extreme pain  (seriously) I took one Vic Es. I was scared to death but I took it. Actually just one help relieve it some. after I took it I wasn't jonesing or anything (not anything more than the usual crave). And even though 1 helped it didn't jack me up a lot. I did notice a slight elevation in my mood and disposition. But nothing like taken 3 of them every 2-4 hours.
ANYHOW, I don't mean to drag this in forever. Today I go to see my doctor for my check up. I am very confused because I know I need something that I can take in times of serious pain. But I am afraid of becoming that hooked again. My question is: Is there a safe place as far as amounts and frequency. For instance if I took a pill maybe 3times a week is that asking for trouble. I have used so many other things that don't help, motrin, aleve, suldac etc.

I GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INSIGHT.  Not only to I find the people on this forum to be warm and caring but I respect their opinions immensely.

PS If my doctor say no I will just say "well Thomas and Frank Lee said it was okay so you have to give them to me. ha ha "

thank you
shea

[Shea]

SORRY I POSTED THIS UNDER A NEW THREAD AND AN OLD ONE.

SHEA

[katie r]

Hey shea! You've helped me so much I wish I could help you now. I'm still at the point that I would never have the strength to NOT take the vic's.
My only thought ( and I may get blasted for this) is if your pain is that bad....maybe you need the pain med.
I'm sure that someone in the forum will have the right answer...maybe they will know about if taking in moderation will be ok.....I've yet to learn the meaning of moderation!
Is this the same dr. that didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground? If so.....Good luck! Post later and keep us updated.
We're here for you, friend.

[Shea]

Hi,

katie, yes this is the same doctor. ha ha and he is still trying to figure it out.
So i go to see him and I try to be very honest about things. And i told him I have been clean now for 8 week and took the Vicoden yesterday. And he replied in extreme cases that might be okay. Then I ask him about a pain management doctor and he told me "they can teach me how to relax and that will help the pain" WHAT THE **** IS THAT? all my vertabras are fused together with my hip bones except the bottom four. They do nothing but rub togther. That is the only mobilty and it takes a beating. A lot of arthiritis in the entire spine. i have tried everything under the sun. Physical Theraphy, Tens unit, injections, blocks, steriods, anti-imflamitory, yada fuc*en yada. So he thinks relaxation might help. Anyhow, I stayed cool because I don't want it to seem like i am seeking the dugs. That is not it. I just need more than relaxation techniques. They have been in my back so many times I look like I was attacked by "jack the ripper on speed". ..So..is this my penance for abusing the pills, that now i have to suffer no matter how intense the pain is. ANY ADVISE on how to handle this. Also could someone tell me about "pain management doctors and addiction specialists. Should I be finding another doctor.  Desperate for some views.

Shea

[SHOTSY]

My opinion is the quaity of your life. Are you a better for suffering? Does taking the med diminish your life or enhance it? That's why I first start coming here because I thought I had a problem. I realize from others that I don't. Yes I do like taking the med. but I'm not abusing it either. I was unaware at how many pain pills could be taken and not kill you. Anything over 4 a day I thought would cause harm. If you can take it to manage the pain instead of it managing you I believe it is approiate.  Of course I don't know if you have that ability. But I do think quality of life has to be considered and you have so much pain I don't see how that can be good for you. Let me know what you think. Sincerely, Shotsy

[cindi]

Many Many times on this forum this has been the topic of discussion and it is a very good topic...I don't even recall if you were active on the board at the time but this seems to be a very big issued for many many people and understandably so...I am ad addict,  this I admit,,howver:  I am also a chronci pain person as well as a multitude of people on this earth...when I went into treatment 12 years ago I left the center 1 day early for some surgery that needed done asap and and was told that I was not able to take anything for pain,,,as a matter of fact i was told never again would i be able to take anything for pain   like I fool i believed them  so i took torodol and motrin...then I grew up  LOl  I like i think it was shotsy believe in the quality of life and if pain medication is needed to imrove upon one's quality of life, allow them to live pain free or as close to pain free as possible then what is the problem..?  Yes, we can and do build up a tolerance to our medication then it is up to the doc's to titrate the doeage accordingly and or change the medication all together if need be,,,,that is if you can find a doc that has not only the knowledge to do so but the willingness as well....good luck,,my hubby was one of the lucky one's  my threw me out....I have documented proof of the injuries to my back but no luck with docs..some fanatics in 12 step programs really frown against all medication,   I was lucky to have been told by an old time Na person that we don't have to play the martyr,,if we hurt  do something about it  along as it is legal and prescribed and we take the right doseage at the right time..when I gave birth the first time I was told i could take tylenol   yeah ok  I just pushed a watermelon out of my nostril and was not to feel any pain afterward?  LOl  the 2nd time I had a section that went terribly wrong and my belly split open..for a month...motrin was going to the job?  that doc was not right at all LOL...I keep insisting that pain medication was invented for a reason...to take care of pain..when a person is in pain post op or whatever  studies have proven (including studies that I conducted when i worked as a nurse) that patients do recover more rapidly while taking the proper medication than they would if they were receiving the wrong med or the wrong doseage..just because we are addicts does not mean we have to live in pain   PERIOD.....good luck   I hope I have helped,,,,,love to all   cin

[Shea]

thank you for your reply. I agree about the quality of life. It has been 8 weeks since i detoxed, and yes maybe i needed to do that to get control of my addiction but it has been 8 weeks of terrible pain. As far as moderation i can't say for certain. I would like to think i can put to say yes would be assuming I can do something I just got done proving i can't. But i sure don't want to ever get out of control again so i would certainly try my hardest and hope if I did i would put a stop to it. I know my husband would keep tabs also and in this case that is good.

the problem is when i went to the Dr. today i really thought he would suggest I take it as prescribed. Instead he just said "I am out of ideas and a pain management is just going to teach ya to relax." And when he suggested in extreme cases i could take something I knew where I stood. Do you think there is another way to approach him? should I find another doctor? I am so frustrated. thank you kind ones for you advice...

shea

[kstuebin]

I don't know, being a benzo freak, although I've done my share of opiates, but I was once told that if you take opiates for pain, you can't become addicted.  Guess that's not true. If you are in pain and drugs work, take the damn drugs. So you're a drug addict. You can be a miserable person suffering all the time and hey, that's a great life right? or you can be a drug addict and be relatively comfortable. Isn't this really about some kind of value judgement. It's not like you're out there robbing banks to support your habit or hurting anyone.  As far as that goes, why can't we all just medicate ourselves so we feel like human beings?  When I'm not on my benzos I'm a real pyscho b*tch. I'm the woman who gave you the finger on the freeway yesterday.  I really wanted to use a grenade launcher. That's a real improvement on being an addict isn't it.  Just cut my dose again so I need to rant. Sorry. But Shea, how in the world can someone manage your kind of pain with relaxation therapy.  I believe in mind over matter to a certain extent but this sounds really bizarre.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I have to agree with the person that spoke about quality of life. About every four months, I write a detailed letter to my doctor describing the quality of my life.  My medical records speak for themselves as far as to why I could be in pain.  I'm sure your's do,too.  

Little things that most healthy people take for granted are a challenge for chronic painers.  Like getting on and off the toilet for instance.  How about being able to dress yourself without falling over?  Things like stairs,etc.

I get to feeling guilty and scared about the amount of narcotics I use to be able to function, myself.  I'll detox for a couple of weeks and lay low.  In short, I really know how you feel.  I wish I had some profound answers, but I don't. I always end up back on pain meds before long.  Relaxation?  What's that?  J.B.

[Francoise]

Hey Shea:

Here's where you want to go. It's a big site with lots of issues and stuff, but you'll find what you need here:

http://www.widomaker.com/~skipb/panic.html

This organization is doing the Lord's work as far as I'm concerned. We've lost the war on drugs. Did so decades ago. But you know governmental inertia. Now there's all sorts of people making all sorts of money off the war on drugs, so now it's likely to be permanent. In the meantime, people who are in pain are told to just suffer. It's far worse than just a plain old garden variety lack of ethics; it's actual evil in my opinion.

Anyway, peruse the site. I think you'll find what you need.

Note when you can.

Francois

[cindi]

Francoise,,,excellent Idea and skip can help  my husband found help in that group...my sisiter also did find help there..I never tried it since i thought my dod was great....FOOLED ME HUH?  a pain management doc would be great...my husband found this family doc on his won and so far he has helped but,,he is not building up a tolerance to the oxy 40 so now his doc is sending him to pain management...my sister on the other hand has not had such a great experience sicne she does not have inurance....hey,,i had a good idea but it is so far fetched,,since i am a nurse, have lots of nurse friends, pharmacist friends and tons of doc friends what do ya think if I ooned up my own pain clinic?  of course it would have to be run my way.....probably would not go over too well since my name is on some kind of DEA list and listed with the state's attorney general..ya think?  anyway,,,,good luck to you   and keep us posted..love to all   cin

[skipper]

hey cindi, lets you and me open a shooting gallery--oops i ment
pain mgt. clinic!

I agree with Franncoise, this whole controled substance carnival
has gotten real lame and tired. it's not just the addicts and drug "pushers" who are making money. it's also the lawenforce-
ment, councelors, lawyers, judges. how many small town hospitals have been able to stay open 'cause they treat addicts and chemicaly dependant people. i could go on and on. the point is a lot of people are making money off "the war on drugs." who would want to "win" this so called war when there is so much money to be made?

i take 40 mg oxy-c, three times a day. it took 2 cervical spine
surgerys, and about 4 years in pain so bad i literally had a shot-gun in my mouth to get this. my god, if i wanted to get high i'ld shoot up some smack! people who want to get high don't go thru the **** i have to finally get a pain specialist who will write Rx that works "fairly well" for them.

but to be real honest, taking my oxy-c the way it's perscribed is
one of the most difficult thing i've ever done!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[cindi]

I have to give you so much credit for taking them as prescribed.i look at it this way,,,God did not intend for us to go through life in pain,so he gave us pain meds...intended for that reason....so take em..and it is a very hard thing to do,,and to be honest with you (again) i could do it for a brief period of time  that's it..then i'd be off,,,running, etc.....and about that gallery  (and i don't mean art gallery)  oops  I mean pain cline  LOL  while we may not cure everyone we culd sure have alot of pain free people and Happy ones at that......:)   love to all   cin          PS...DOUG IS GOING TO FLORIDA ON FRIDAY,,,,,PAARRRTTTTYYY AT MY HOUSEE     LOL

[katie r]

Happy birthday to you! Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday dear jennyfla.......happy birthday to youuuuuuu!
ÜÜÜÜ
Don't feel too bad about being a 39 year old addict....I'm a 42 year old addict.
Today is your day! Enjoy!!!!!

[skipper]

jennyfla:
happy 39! you know the day i turned 43 i realized i'ld really
****** up one more thing. see i never planned to live past 40.
i thought i'ld be dead from drugs one way or another. it took
me 3 years (and i was clean too) to realize i'ld overshot my
mark and lived past 40. see having drugs kill me off before 40
got me out of a lot of mundane things like 401k plans, life in-
surance, finding a mate to spend the rest of my life with, wor-
rying aboutnmy liver, and on and on. i guess waking up at 43 is
beter than never waking up at all! last march i turned 50 and
despite intractable pain there are many things i can do that a
person half my age couldn't. i've also forgiven myself for a lot
of the things that used to haunt me to the point i looked for
death. most living drug addicts have a lot of "past." i have
been fortunate enough to be exposed to people on this forum and
elsewhere who helped me learn to love myself.

i've said it before-
i used to wake bewildered
i was a small person in a
world getting ever smaller

now i awake bewondered-
still a small person
in aworld gettin ever larger.

happy bithday jenny
& keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[cindi]

SORRY TO HIJACK THIS THREAD  lol    but happy Brithday to you   ours are pretty close together   you the 39 year old addict,,I just hit the 41 year old mark...hmmmmmmmmmmm now make a big birthday wish and send me email and tell me what you wished for  lOL      i love being nosey  gotta get to soccer  i'll write to ya later....love ya girlfriend     from the HIJAcker        
Have a hapy rest of the day................

[jule1]

Ok Lets figure out if we look alike.  Well my body is like a life sized Barbie and my face hmmm, kind of like the best features of Michelle Pfieffer, Meg Ryan, Cindy Crawford now remeber these are the best features of these three. Ya thats the ticket LOL. The joys of being cyber friends!! This is why if I was single I would never go online to meet anyone!!! I hope you are having a great day and that your children bring you happiness today and always.  Take care, lots of love Jules

P.S.If I was there I would make you a yummy chocolate cake or even better cheesecake

[susanlea]

Happy Birthday my Florida friend.   Check your email I sent you something.....love Susan

[katie r]

Read down to the post on Zyban.....we've made the charming danilcc mad again.
He or she (whatever, who knows who cares) needs to find an anger management forum.

[skipper]

hey danielincc:
what katie r says!

[jennyfla]

Today's my 39th birthday!  Ugh, i never thought that i would grow up to be a 39-year old drug addict!  Oh, how depressing was that.
Hubby's home from work with so much pain in his back, he can hardly work.  It's so bad that i told him to go see a dr.  You know they will prescribe something, but i don't know what else to tell him.  He's a marine mechanic with an bad back, it gets aggravated by his line of work.  It's the only professional he is skilled out, any other profession will be such a big pay cut i don't know how we would get by.  What was i thinking when i decided to have three children!!!!  I guess i was thinking that i would love to have three children (duh!!!)  And i love them all to pieces!!!! :)
Sigh!  I can't even have one simple special day out of the year to myself, selfishly wanting to have the day completely and totally revolve around ME!!!!  ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!
gonna go home tonight, after work, and make ME ME ME ME ME a cake!!!!!  I LOVE SWEETS!!!!!!
Enough Whining for one day, but hey, it's my birthday and i can whine as much as i want, right????
Good bye all!
Lv Jenny

[jule1]

JENNY - HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!  I now know one more reason why we like each other and get along - my birthday was last wed.  and so we are both Libras!!!  So now we have the Jersey thing, children the same exact age and being libras if we got together we wouldn't be able to make it out of the house though because we couldn't be able to make up our minds.  I bet we could find drugs we would agree on though LOL.  My girlfriend and I went to Europe for our b-days one year (hers is the day after mine)  well lets just say two libras have a hard time travelling together we got along great but couldn't make up our minds about anything!!!!  So here is a big cyber chocolate cake (less calories than the real kind)  and a big b-day hug(((((((HUGS)))))).

Katie - You go girl you always crack me up and reading your posts remind me so much of myself the way I used to count drugs etc.  You have a friend in me!!!

DANYUK - Whatever and whoever you are I also echo Katie.

[SHOTSY]

Happy birthday to you-have a wonderful day-Women's liberation will be achieved when there are as many men as women rushing home to prepare dinner - Enjoy your cake!                                                                                                I don't really believe that Danielincc was drawn here to counsel people on line. Daniel don't you have something you would like to get off your chest? The door is open. All you have to do is walk thru.

[jennyfla]

Thank you so much sweetie!
OMG, can i never ever make up my mind!
People are always making fun of me about that!!!  You actually had me sitting here laughing in my chair (at work) when i read that!!!!!  
Well a big hugh Happy Birthday HUG to you too!!!!  Hope you had a nice birthday.
I'm being to wonder if we look alike too!  LOL!
Lv Jenny

[jennyfla]

Thank you so much for your Birthday Wish!!!!  That was so sweet of us.
You see, us druggies are the best of the best.  We are always looking out for eachother!
Lv Jenny

[Shea]

jennyfla,

Happy belated Birthday to you. I hope despite having to make your own cake it was a happy one.

skipper,

that was very powerful what you wrote in your post to jennyfla. I read it over a few times:)

Shea

[Shea]

FRANCOISE...Thank You so much for the site address. I must have spent 4 hours there yesterday.  It was so filled with information and insight. And it helped me not feel so bad about the possibility of needing medication.
Because I broke the "contract" with my doctor and also admitted everything to him I don't think he will be the one to prescribe anything for me. So I might be shopping for a new doctor. But the sight was so beneficial.

J.B., KSTUEBIN, Thank you for the input. Everything is always appreciated and helpful.

Shea

[Milo]

Happy Birthday!!! You & I are almost exactly the same age. Bless your heart --- Milo

[jennyfla]

Well some one come along and smack this grin off my face, i'm gonna be a smiling all day long after reading all your heartwarming posts.
Kip, you're a deep, loving soul!!!  Never change who you are! :)
Lv Jenny

[Witchywoman]

Belated birthday greetings Jenny!
I am going to turn 39 in January, so can relate to what it feels like.

We are blessed to have you here, and the world is a better place because you are in it. I mean that.

lots of love,
WW

[jenifer]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JENNY !!!! I am also a libra and also can NEVER make up my mind!LOL I will be 31  on the 21st.I also have 3 kiddos,ages 21 monhs ,4 and 12.I know what you mean about just having one day that is just yours! I feel like that once in a while.Hey girl you have a wonderful b-day after al it's your day!  take care,jenifer

[Janie-doodle]

I agree with all the comments about chronic pain.  I have had several operations (abdominal) and have had torn cartilidge, compressed disks, sciatic problems.  I went to a pain therapy clinic and after a couple of thousand dollars, I was no better, in fact, I was worse.  When I started, I was limping. When I finally walked out of there, I was walking with a cane, for God's sake. I had shots, accupuncture, phys. therapy and massage therapy.

I don't abuse pain meds, but I can't get them either. My doctors are reluctant to give me anything unless I beg.  I fully believe my improvement in my physical condition was brought on by being pain-free and thus being more mobile.

I don't think using pain meds with chronic pain should be considered "addiction."  Maybe there is a better way to manage the dosing of pain meds, but I'm not going to beat myself up because I take something when I need it.

I'm passing a kidney stone even as I type this, but without pain meds I'd be miserable and i wouldn't be at work.

God Bless us everyone!