Klonopin

[whippet]

I would like to know how to safely taper off klonopin (Rivotril).I SHOULD be taking 1mg 3 times a day, but for the last several years i've tripled my dose to 3/1mg 3 times a day.

I was prescribed klonopin 7 yrs ago at the same time as anitdepressants. I've weaned myself off the antideprssants a few months ago. Why was i prescribed klonopin? Was it to optimize the antidepressants? Anyways, i'm feeling much better and all i need is this last step to be completely drug free.

*Note to others who post here*

Why is it that i get this weird feeling that some people seem to think that their posts r less important or enlightning than others? What the heck...? In my humble opinion, and after reading posts here for more than a month...seems to me that every single post, long or short, serious or funny, enlightening or down in the dumps, whatever drug is affecting our lives...ALL THESE POSTS HAVE THEIR PLACE HERE.

Isn't this forum a place for us all to get off any stuff?

Being human...means mistakes...downers...humble acceptance and so many times here...victories...maybe small ones...but victories all the same...but ALL of the time...all of the posts r so very true.So...what ever the name attached to a post...i read every single word..and..however long or short it may be...in some way...it encourages me to get clean.

I'm a working mom with 3 boys ages from 3 to 16. One of my boys has a chronic medical problem. I'm a single parent and after alcohol and pills galore in the familly history, i truly want to get off this stuff. Take care everyone.

[Bodymechanic]

You were prescribed klonipin in all likelyhood to deal with anziety. Anziety and depression are frequent companions.  The klonipin is usually prescribed for the first 30days of drug therapy.  It is then disconinued when the antidepressants start to work.  

Klonipin is a difficult addiction to shake. You will need to withdraw slowly, ideally under the care of a physician.  Clonidine seems to help with the tremors, sweats and anziety that goes along with the withdrawal.  Clonidine will also help prevent seizures.  I suggest that you withdraw over a 6 month period by slowly decreasing the dose.

There is no one post that is any more important then the next.  There are posters who provide better information than others. Keep looking and sooner or later you will find what you need. Leave the rest.

[sharonver]

I agree with you everyone's addiction is as important as the next.  They are all different and unique, as well as everyones withdrawal symptoms. Some people are stronger than others. In my addiction my physical withdrawal has always been worse than my mental. I am trying to slowly detox from Methadone, I'm down to 6mg. after being on 65mg for more than 15 years. So far I am coping but I am worried what will happen when it gets to nothing!I am trying vitamins, lots of water, exercise and yoga. It has helped.  I am hoping and praying that it will continue to help when it gets to 0 mg!! Hang in there everyone! We are all there for you...

[hellbent]

So, you are taking 9mgs a day of Klono? That's a sizeable habit, and a comfortable taper from that amount can take a long time, a year or more.

Please don't get frightened by what I say. Everyone is different and this is just my experience. I was taking 10-15 mgs Klono for a few months, valium before that. I went cold turkey and had a very, very hard time with it. Didn't sleep at all for a long time, didn't eat, and had a host of other horrible symptoms.

Benzo withdrawal is very serious business. If you are taking 9mgs a day, that's equivalent to over 100mgs of valium I think. It's certainly more than should ever be prescribed for anxiety. I've only heard of epileptic patients being prescibed a dosage that high.

So, a long slow taper is the way to go. What is your psycological connection to the pills? Are you addicted to the effect they produce? If not, tapering will be much easier.

I came across the following site when I was in withdrawals and it helped immensely...

http://www.benzo.org.uk

[eslad]

I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but I've been trying to make a post here for a really long time.  It never lets me, so I tried this and its working, so I'm going for it.

I am desperate to talk/email with others like me: hydro addict got clean after 8 months of constant use on 10/1.  Started on tramadol right after ~ doc said it was not addictive, YEAH RIGHT @SSHOLE! ~ now I'm detoxing myself off of that.  

I'm so sad and scared and I dont know where to turn.  The sponsor from the NA group I had been attending made me feel like the tramadol mess was my fault for "not taking responsibility for my own recovery" even though I asked the doc if tramadol was addictive and he said no (before you ask ~ this doc knew ALL about my hydro addiction).  

I'm the mother to 2 sons, 7½ and 15 months, and I dont know how I'm going to function without something to make me feel up to the challenge of everyday life.   I had thought I had the worst part over after detoxing off hydro.  I started feeling really good about a week after getting out of detox and thought I was in the clear.  Turns out that is when I started on tramadol.  It was all a lie.  It wasnt me feeling good, it was the tramadol doing it.  I never really got high from it, not like hydro.  It just returned a sense of "normal-ness" to me that had been lacking since the hydro was gone.   Hydro made me feel like I could do anything, anytime, anywhere.  I could handle everything and more and all was right with the world.   Can anyone relate?  I was the best mother, wife, friend, employee EVER.  Know what I mean?  

Now its just me and I dont know how or if I'll be able to function with out the help the pills gave me.  

PLEASE email me at ***@**** if you would like to talk or something, ok?  Thanks so much and again, sorry for the hijack.
LA

[whippet]

Thanks for the info. I've allready posted about my intention to stop klonipin and Thomas was also nice to have told me to be carefull about tapering.

Problem is my doc lectured me the other day about staying ON my meds. Even if i tried to explain to him that i felt better and don't want to continue meds for depression, doc said that if i wanted help from one of his therapists, i HAD to stay on them. Ok..i didn't admitt to him that i had tripled my klonopin doses for the last few years...geez....

So heres how i see it. If i want to taper off this klonopin...can't do it with this doc i am seeing. Gotta keap up this charade about pretending to be on meds so that i can get to see the therapist for free and work on my inner self. (can't afford to pay for therapist...gotta small budget with kids and all).

Guess i have 2 choices left. Go see another doc to taper off the drug or taper off on my own.

I'd rather do it on my own. Seeing docs is not my joy in life. And just thinking of trying to explain all this stuff to a new doc just gets me real down and scared the hell outa me. Don't think i'll find one who understands...know what i mean?

So i'll start tapering real slow. Give myself a 6 month period to do so and see how it goes. If any one has any ideas, suggestions, wise words about tapering off klonopin...well...i'd welcome them!

Thanks bodymechanic for the tapering advice and sharonver...i here ya and surely someone here in forum will help you through the tough times...i'm sure!!! Merci! (genetic genes half french...lolll) Whippet:)

[whippet]

Well hellbent, i am frightened about my benzo abuse. Your post just confirmed that its about time i did something about it.

I like the feeling that this klonopin gives me. I've had a chat with Thomas a few posts back, about my love for the feeling of opiates. (I was in the hospital for a few days and had demerol as many times as i could ask for it.) 2 years ago i also has back surgery and discovered the wonderful feeling of morphine.

The last time i posted, i was just about to find myself a prescription for opiates...just to get that good feeling i had in the hospital, but after reading Thomas's post, i thought about it real hard and stopped myself from getting them.

Somedays, i can skip a complete dose of klonopin and i don't feel the need for it somedays. So that is why starting january, i'm going to see a therapist to find out why i need to dull some of my days. But most of the time, i do take the drug to give me a boost. (Well, if you can call it a boost...whatever.) And after reading your post and bodymechanics post, i'm getting scared that this up and down intake of klonopin is dangerous.

I really was in full blown depression 7 years ago when i started klonopin. I feel much better today depression wise and if i can just find out why i need to *fix* some parts of my days with these drugs, maybe i could be totally clean soon.

Gonna visit the link you posted about this drug.

Merci for you help! Whippet:)

[1st24]

I don't know if you've read my comments on the thread above, but I completely relate to how you're feeling.  I, too, am considered so together, I'm the one who takes care of everyone/everything.  But now, I'm coming apart, because the magic pills have lost their magic, and I know that I have to end this madness, and let everyone know what's going on with me.  Then, and only then will I be able to stop this charade of being "superwoman".  At age 57, my body can't take this abuse.  Both of taking the pills, and the withdrawals.  I did get off all opiates a couple of moths ago, with the help of tramadol.  I guess the tramadol didn't make me feel good enough to get mentally addicted, because I stopped those easily.  It's the norco I can't stop.  Every day I mean to, but I don't have the will, especially when I have pain as soon as I awaken.  I wake up every night in terror, knowing I can't function without them, but every day I take them again, feel guilt again, and fear, etc.,etc.,etc.  This is really getting old, and I want the real me back.  I know at one time, I had natural energy, was in really good shape physically and mentally.  Now I'm not either.  So, you see, eslad, I am right where you are, and another - Southernbelle.  Read her posts.  Maybe we can all help each other.  Get the "Recipe" that's posted in one the the threads.  It does help.

[eslad]

Oh thank goodness someone noticed me.  I've been refreshing the page all day since I posted.  You dont know what it means to me, you really dont.  Thank you!

I can totally relate to everything you wrote.  Wanting the terrible cycle to stop.  Wanting the real me back.   Fear of dealing with the pain with any narcotics or Ultram (I have a bulging disc, L5-S1).  Knowing that there was a time when I could function without the help of some drug ~ I know I did, but its hard to imagine I did now.  How will I ever do it again?  When will this nightmare end?  When?  And to top it all off, it was me that did this to myself.  I have alot of self hate right now.  

I'm crying with gratitude that you acknowleged me, 1st24.  Thank you so much!

I've got the stuff from the Thomas formula and I'm taking it but I dont feel much of anything except fear and anxiety (sorry for the bad spelling).   After I found the formula, I started researching a few other amino acids for withdrawal/detox and got some others to go along with the formula.  Still, nothing much good is coming from it yet.  But I'll keep it up and hope some good feelings start up soon.

Again, if anyone wants to email with me, feel free.  My email is ***@****

Yours in this terrible addiction ~
LA

[hellbent]

Klonopin is a long acting benzo, so it is not surprising that you feel no ill effects after not taking in for a day. However, give it 2-3 days and you will likely experience some very bad withdrawal symptoms, that will last a long time, much longer than opiates... again, not to scare you, but you need to know what you are in for.

7 years is a long time to be on benzos, and the longer you are on them, the worse the w/d will be, in terms of duration and severity. Do some research on this, and get a taper schedule you can live with, but that also gets you off of them while you still have breath in your lungs. The fact that you like the feeling of benzos may be a real problem in terms of sticking to a taper schedule, sad to say, but it is possible.

[suzieneedshelp]

BTW, you need a new na sponsor fo r sure!  but that is my opinion No one should get on you fo r your efforst to want to be clean , even just going to na and wanting, even though u are not clean is the hugest step!  DO not let anyone rain on your parade or make you blame yourself more than we addicts already do. We have enough guilt and shame .. not to be put it on by a fellow addict!  the guilt and shame is part of the addictive cycle that actually keep sus using!  Another great excuse to use... feeling bad about our inability to stop!
Do not succumb to that and do not let an uninformed Na member rag on you!
Peace!
Suzie

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

i know exactly what you are going through-i went through hydro detox several years ago only to be drawn back due to Ultram (tramadol)--my orthopedist used to get tons of samples so i had what seemed to be a never ending supply--and guess what! IT IS ADDICTING AND CAN LEAD YOU RIGHT BACK TO HYDROCODONE--thats what happened to me! it really didn't give me the same feeling as the hydro's but at the time it was better than nothing. Ortho-McNeil did a heavy marketing job on a lot of doctors touting the wonders of Ultram and how it was "non-addicting"  it is also very expensive! they now have warnings that if a patient has had problems in the past with hydrocodone that it should be given with caution. I did experience some withdrawal symptoms from tramadol but nothing like the hydro's.--I am 14 days post hydrocodone hell--this sight has been a Godsend--I really don't know how i made it this far except for the wonderful people here--continuing to post and continuing to offer hope and encourgement.  good luck my thoughts and prayers are with you and together we can get our lives back--one minute, one hour, one day at a time--n.o. lady

[teeitup]

Hang in there, read the post and keep posting people will respond and help you through this. If you need someone to email you can reach me @ ***@****, I try and check it several times a day. Good luck!

teeitup!

[Thomas02]

Are you tapering or going cold turkey off of the Ultram? The Recipe is designed for cold turkey detox. For the first 4 or 5 days, the benzo should help you stay calm and weather the storm. During this period, you do not take the L-Tyrosine. After acute withdrawal is over, the L-Tyrosine will help you overcome the post-wd malaise (lack of mental, emotional and physical energy).

It's important that the use of Recipe ingrediants be timed properly. If you're tapering, don't try the L-Tyrosine until you're done. Only use it if it gives you the lift you need to get going. If it causes anxiety similar to the "coffee jitters," discontinue it.

If you'd like a copy of the Recipe with full directions, write me at:
***@****

Thomas

[WifeofAddict]

Does anyone know of a site i can go to....that deals with families of addicts?  You have all been a great help to me.  I understand addiction better now than before...and going to AA and NA meetings has helped a whole lot too.  But i have questions about being the member of the marriage who isn't addicted and the anger and frustration i feel sometimes.  I know he did this to himself...but at the same time...he stole a part of me.  I can't trust as easily, i can't look back to the good times and think of them as good...because he was high.  I am having a really bad day today...and would just like to have someone to relate to.  Anyone know of anything i can do? or go to?  
I am off to an AlAnon meeting now.
I am really trying to help him....but somedays i just want to scream!
Thanks,
Catherine.

[eslad]

I think Alanon will help you the most.  I know there are sites, forums, messages boards out there for the spouses of addicts, I just dont know exactly where.  

If you dont find any in the next few days, let me know and I'll find them for you.  I love to search for things on the internet, so its no problem.  But right now its hard for me to post here, so searching now is out of the question.

I would love to help you find what you are looking for, but I just cant manage it now.   Seriously, if in a few days you havent found anything, let me know and I'll search for you.  You can email me ~ my email address is in one of my first posts here.  

Keep going to Alanon!  Your husband is lucky to have  you!
Lee Ann

[teeitup]

Try www.presciptionabuse.com, good luck and thanks for your postings!

teeitup!

[Rex1]

How are you doing today my friend?

Rex

[Rex1]

How's it goin today?

Rex

[saveyourself]

How long do you have to be on klonopin before your addicted or get WD from them.  I have used it sparingly with the thomas recipe.  They do help with the anxiety and the paranoi feeling I still have from WD. Coming off this oxy/ per habit of a year, it is going to be a few more weeks of WD.  It is just like meth WD.  It is not over in a few weeks.  I am working out, going to NA, but do not want to substute another drug with more WDs.
Any body got any answers, alot of you have seen my posts over the last3 weeks.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[WifeofAddict]

Thanks for the info.  I just got back from the Alanon meeting.  It wasn't any help at all.  I am going to try another meeting next week...in a different place.  I am not giving up, but this one was not what i needed.  I guess i don't really know what i need.  Actually i do know what i need.  I need my life to go back...and have all this erased.  But that is likely not to happen.  So i will continue to support him the best i can.  The thing is that my education, job, social life, emotional well-being, appearance etc. has all changed because of this stupid pill.  All i have to say is that if he ever puts a pill in his mouth again...he might as well put one in mine...because it effects me just the same.  I am going to keep coming here....even if i do find the right support group...because you people help me understand what HE is going through....and if it wasn't for that...i would still be blaming him for what i thought he did to me.  He did it to himself....and didn't mean for it to hurt me.  I understand that....somedays.  Anyways, for all of you doing the Jan.1st quit date.....CONGRATULATIONS and i wish you the very best....and will be thinking about you.  For those you are trying....keep trying...IT IS WORTH IT.  When you think it couldn't possibly be worth all this pain....keep trying.  IT IS WORTH IT.  Sometimes i wish i could take a pill or have a drink...like tonight...to numb my feelings.  But i know it is not the right way to go...i know that eventually i will have to deal with this problem...and a pill or a drink is just delaying the inevitable.  Thanks again for taking the time to answer my question.  I really appreciate it.  Also, to eslad...you don't have to do a search for me....:)  Thanks for the offer though...it was really sweet.  I have a tendency to do that as well...i take everyones problem...make it mine and then try to fix it.  I don't know if you are the same way or not.  
Well off to search.
Thanks again :)
Catherine

[hippy]

yo,
how much have you been taking and for how long.
im sure you wil get more info posted.klonopin is a
sedative-hypnotic(benzodiazepine caterory of drug)
one way to taper is .25 1 a day week 1
.25 every other day week 2
25. every thrid day week 3
then off.

you should always taper under the doctor hho prescribed it to you
supervision.

everything is subject ro revision especally what we know about thr truth.
i welcome anyone else's in put, to help answer your question,

peace !!!  hippy, your  freind michael

[itsadogslife]

Having had a long term benzo addiction, I have done extensive research and posted on a benzo board for some time. That benzo wd is different for everyone is apparently the only truth that applies. There are some general rules of thumb -

Long acting benzos like klonopin or valium are preferred for tapering.

It is easier to make larger cuts in the beginning of the taper than at the end. As the taper progresses go smaller and slower.

Cuts should be no larger than 10% of the total dose. I have personally broken this rule at the beginning with no ill effects.

Two things happen during a taper - rebound symptoms caused by the brain's delay in producing GABA when the drug is removed. These are most likely more intense anxiety, shakes and insomnia. The brain eventually begins to produce GABA again. If that's not bad enough relapse symptoms which are the underlying disorder that the benzo was prescribed for in the first place return as well.

Tapers from benzos take a long time and the symptoms can be bad enough to want to increase the dose to obtain relief. I have found that if done only occassionally like once during a weekly or bimonthly cut, this does not negate the taper. If you are going to beat your head against the wall or shoot your neighbor, I think that it doesn't hurt to have one day of peace from symptoms. But overall, you have to steadily decrease to get to the other side.

It's very difficult to be around other people during this period which again is very long so it's impossible not to be. They will get on your nerves bigtime even by just commenting on the weather.

Many people have tried many different things to deal with symptoms from high protein diets to meditation to exercise. I find exercise helpful. It burns off the excess adrenalin and cortisol that builds up during wd. However, unfortunately, you usually don't want to exercise. I also found B vitamins to be too stimulating. Who knows? What works for one person doesn't for the next. You have to find something that works for you.

Stay away from all stimulants including caffeine.

Some people swear that antidepressants help; others say they're just compounding the problem.

Do not check into any detoxes that promise you'll be off in two weeks. They do exist and countless people have paid the price.

Just remember it's easier in the beginning so get started. You will be making progress and that will help you feel in control.

itsadogslife

[teeitup]

Rex1 - Doing good, how's the back!

Everyone - Have a Happy New Year and be safe!

teeitup!

[Bodymechanic]

I think that you will find Alanon and Naranon very dissapointing.  They lead you to believe that it is you have a disease and need to work AA steps. They take concerned and loving wives and label them as co-dependents. This may or may not be true.  The best message to take from Alanon is that you cannot control your partners behavior so take care of yourself.  

Read the chapter in the AA big book addressed to wives and families. I think this will give you some good insight. Also, I believe that this type of situation is Dr Horvaths field of expertise.  He may be able to give you more help than anyone.

[whippet]

Thanks all for the indepth info about klonopin. Its really got me thinking about when and how to taper. Imma gonna start slowly, following itsadogslife and everyone elses posts. If it gets too tough, i'll taper even slower...but i will taper darn it...even if it does take a whole year!

Yesterday, i didn't take a dose till the evening. During the day, took the boys iceskating. I'm usually real layed back when i take these meds, but yesterday, caught myself losing patience for every tiny thing. Had to apologize to my boyz a couple of times since everything and i mean EVERYTHING got on my nerves. Now, after reading all of your posts about klonopin, i'm putting 2 and 2 together. Yeah, i'm scared. Hope with time, i will get off this stuff.

Last night, could't even stand myself so i took a dose. Felt much calmer afterwards.

Had a heart to heart talk with my 2 older teen sons. My youngest is 3, so he was asleep. Didn't feel it was the right time to tell the boys i was fighting an addiction, but we talked about our familly history for drugs and alcohol. Isn't easy to get any teens attention, but i can tell you that this conversation was really intense. They asked alot of questions about street drugs and script drugs. I tried to answer as best i could and i reminded them that since our familly has a predisposition, they should, throughout thier lives, be very carefull not to fall into the *fix* pattern...whatever the substance.

I even had the courage to admitt to them that i loved the opiate effects when i had back surgery and now IBS and demerol  and that i had to be very very carefull not to give in to this great feeling. They were so astonished that thier mom MIGHT have a problem! (I'm a very caring mom and am allways there for them). Geezzzz....kids sometimes think that we parents are saints of something!!!!!!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways, i hope our conversation opened an eye for them. Time will tell.

I'll keep reading all of your posts each day.  They really do help me...if not down right awaken me...and sometimes...yeah...sometimes...give me a hearty good laugh with the jokes and all...that is the best medicine i know!

Take care everyone and merci!! Whippet:)

[itsadogslife]

A year is a good time frame for a taper. Slow but steady. Email me you if you like...I'm at 4 mgs of valium down from a crossover of 6 mgs of Xanax a day. It has been 7 months so far for me. Anyway, I'm posting my email addy..I seem to remember we're not supposed to but I don't remember why so if the moderator doesn't like I guess they can pull the post.

***@****

[alone]

Hi Rex. Today is a little better but still so tired. I made myself get out of the house and go for a ride in my truck. That worked for awhile, but I got tired real fast and had to get back home and lay down. Thanks for asking. And how are you today?

[hippy]

i agree with your post,
we are all addicts looking for solutions.
i have been here a year, have found that certian member here have morehelpful information then others,
some are he to get off the pills and some are here to find a way to live with the fact that they have to take meds , and are trying to find a way to do that successfully.
in the end i find we akk help eahh other.
some of here who have found solutions have the tendency to be
very grateful for the help we have received.
i personally was encouraged and helped imensly bt the membere
who were here whwn i got here  posters like
thomas, mr.michael,WW. ,skipper,irish rose,also body mech.
amongst othersi also enjoy and am encouraged by
rex, save youself, southeren belle, suszee needs help.
to name a few more,
when i got here in feb o2, i was a mess, taking up tpo 29 perc;s and vikes aday. so finding a way out of the nightmare
with the help of the posters i mention has  me in a forever greateful state of mind,

peace !!!!!!!!!!!!!          hippy

[PeaceNick]

I had a 8Mg per day Klonopin habit and successfully got it down to 1 Mg per day in 2 weeks!!  I read a study done using Valium to substitute for the Benzo you are currently addicted to.  I simply substituted 7Mg of Klonopin with 60Mg Valium along with 1 Mg Klonopin. I literally made this change overnight.  So, I was taking 6 10Mg Valiums + 1 - 1Mg Klonopin per day. every 3 days I decreased the valium intake by 15Mg until I was down to only taking 1 Mg of Klonopin. I experienced very little withdrawal.  Coming off of the 1 Mg of Klonopin was actually a little more difficult than decreasing my dosage.  However, I'm sur that the withdrawal would have been worse without substituting the Valium; And it would have taken MUCH longer to taper off of the 8Mg of Klonopin.  This worked for me; I also had access to the Valium since my father is an M.D. - I don't neccessarily say you should try this I'm only saying it worked wonderfully for me.
Also,  A doctor that would actually tell his/her patient that they MUST stay on an addictive drug in order to continue therapy should have their medical license revoked!  I suspect your current doctor wants to keep you addicted so you have to keep coming back and he/she keeps getting paid.  I'd like to sock him in the eye!!! @sshole!!!

[hellbent]

"I simply substituted 7Mg of Klonopin with 60Mg Valium along with 1 Mg Klonopin. I literally made this change overnight"

No ****? I had a vicodin habit and simply substituted 1 gram of heroin, shot into my ass. I literally made this change overnight, and no withdrawals! Who woulda thought :)

Seriously, it's pretty amazing that you could drop 15mgs valium every three days and not have serious withdrawals. I am assuming you weren't taking any other benzos at this point, or opiates...

Consider yourself lucky.

[saveyourself]

Hey bro,

I have been on the klono three weeks, 1mg 3 x day, plus 1 clonodine,  Like every good addict I know I modified the THOMAS recipe that has been such a big help with WD.  They have helped with that paranoid feeling, especially in public, but I am always tired, no wonder it's a depressent.  I have 7 left that I am going to cut in half and taper down and stop in the next 4 days.

I saw my old sponser yesterday at a meeting, had a really good talk.  I told him after I went on the treatment for hcv, I didn't want to talk to anyone including my wife and kids. He understood as he knows alot of addicts who have the disease and tried treatment and quit.  It was hell.  anyhow,the good news is I am cured of hcv and I just talked to him on the phone and asked him to be my sponser again and to start working on the steps.  He said he was praying you would ask and and of course he would.

One thing I had asked him was about was all the meds I have been taking for this disease the last year, told him every thing truthfully, he asked me when I last drank, gambled or smoked weed, those were my drugs of choice in my 4 years from NA. Didn't go back to crack heroin ect.  Alcohol is a drug I sure found out, along with my gambling. I told him last year at this hotel/casino my father in law was playing at in AZ. He told me no you have not relapsed since then,  the drugs you took saved your life and got you through the post treatment. so no that is not a relapse especially with the disease you had.  I am going to believe and trust him on this.  He has 17 years of recovery and has worked the steps. He has in the past called me on my **** big time when I would get 60 days and go drink and gamble. So tomorrow I have 1 year clean!  My wife celebrates 1 year clean 1-6-03.  I will e mail you soon.  Thanks for the info.

To everyone on the board, my sincere thanks, I couldn't leave the house for 7 days because of WD.  Never would have got past day 3 without getting oxys and percs, it was only your support and posts that kept me going.

[itsadogslife]

It is possible to taper directly from klonopin rather than valium since it too has a long half life. Most problems tapering result from trying to taper from short acting benzos like Xanax or Ativan as interdose wd is more severe.

There are disadvantages to switching to Valium. It is an older benzo and does not bind as tightly to the receptors as the newer benzos and many people report crossover wd symptoms. I personally did not find this to be the case but admittedly I am in the minority on this. It's mode of action is also different - it has more of a hypnotic rather than an anti anxiety effect and can cause oversedation at the higher doses recommended for crossover.

On the plus side, it is easier to cut the pills and they come in several different strengths. In addition, healing begins almost immediately because it effects different subunits of the GABA receptors. It is very helpful with the insomnia but less helpful with anxiety symptoms.

These are things to weigh when choosing a protocol.

itsadogslife

[PeaceNick]

"No ****? I had a vicodin habit and simply substituted 1 gram of heroin, shot into my ass. I literally made this change overnight, and no withdrawals! Who woulda thought :)"

LOL
Wow, I had a back pain habit and simply substituted about 2-3 grams of heroin per day until I was numb...then I got the really bright idea (<<- sarcasm) of simply substituting 120 Mg of Methadone per day and waddya know no withdrawals!!  :-)

Seriously though, I think everyone is different when it comes to reactions to detox so forth.... Yes, I had was down to 70Mg Methadone per day when I did this, but I really don't think the Methadone lessened the withdrawals significantly. The reason I say this is because when I tried to kick the pins cold turkey while on 120 Mg of Methadone I had TERRIBLE witdraw symptoms and the Methadone wore off 4 hrs.after I medicated in the morning - by 11:00 AM I was totally dope sick.
All I really can say for sure is that the substitution of Valium and tapering I described in my last post worked very well FOR ME.  Remember, I also mentioned that coming off of the 1 MG of Klonopin a month later (after the Valium subst) was pretty rough.

Also, as a side note, my dad has recently told me about substituting Phenobarbitol while detoxing from any Benzo has proven to be pretty successful in many documented cases.  I am indeed fortunate to have a father who is an M.D.
Maybe whipett can try the Phenobarbitol substitution...
anyway,  thanks for the feedback.

Peace and Blessings

[Everett]

I have taken 8mgs of Xanax, 1600mgs of Meprobamate and 60mgs of Restoril for well over 5 years now with absolutely no disturbing or negative side effects and an marked improvement, in fact the total elimination of the symptoms of my illness.  I make it a point to heavily research the medicines and dosages for everything I am prescribed.  I am perplexed that the "addiction industry", intolerant of any psychoactive medications or their use, especially prolonged, has abused the term "addiction" and uses it in a extremely loose fasion to include reliance on any remedy that relieves the symptoms of mental illness.  I must mention also that I do not nor have I ever sought increases in the amount or types of medicine required to relieve my symptoms, do no sell it on the street, and do not use it inappropriatey or for recreation. The very profitable "addiction industry" is a curious oddity which has been driven by political and mis-informed scare-tactic pressure from those who do not require this safe and effective treatment which, since its development in the mid 20th century, has virtually emptied the mental hospitals to an all time low, allowing patients to perform and function normally in their social lives and allowed them to become productive and content members of society.  It seems to me the only problem is the pressure from the NON-MEDICAL "experts" who condemn psychopharmacology as an evil and immoral treatment, just another flavor of the "reefer madnes" strategy employed in the 1930's.  "Betty Ford" and "AAA" centers do their best to label the disabled as "addicts" who cannot help themselves and can NEVER recover, and this is one of the most counter-productive and dangerous problems regarding this subject, creating undue and serious attitudes against the psychopharmacologists and their patients.  I too am a victim.  Do you know why my Doctor, a prominent psychiatrist, advised me that my dosages were too high and that the problem-free use of medicine must be tapered and discontinued? LIABILITY FEAR based on the ever intrusive politicians who reason that, regardless of the effective and safe use of these medicines, a topic which never seems to get much publicity, they must be stopped.  He stated that a "committee" of "auditors", who know nothing of my condition, has in effect threatened him with censure and/or revocation of his right to practice medicine if he did not begin reducing the amounts of certain medications for ALL patients, regardless of the patients' needs or progress.  I am therefore in the same boat as many of you in terms of fear and anxiety, but don't be so quick to blame the medicine or feel that long-term high-dose regimens are catagorically harmful and ineffective to those afflicted with mental illness.  Habituation is a property of many psychotropics, and if discontinuation is determined to be medically appropriate by a Physician, it can be done with little or no discomfort to dose zero.  It may take time, but weighed against the overwhelming benefits MOST patients have experienced by their use, withdrawl is simply a procedure related to the medication, not a social evil.  How many people are hopelessly trapped in pain because a Doctor is afraid of the DEA?  How many suffer needless anxiety every month unsure if their medicine will be there or not under the current "controlled substance" laws restricting medication to 30 days per doctor visit for conditions which may be chronic or intractable?  It is easier to buy heroin or crack than to be treated with a safe and appropriate psychotropic.  The Government lost their expensive war on truly harmful drugs bought on the streets, so I guess they can save a little face by victimizing the mentally challanged and the availability of safe, effective medicines that, at least in my case, changed my life 1000% for the better.

[lisabet]

Thank you for the informative post!  Sounds like you've done your homework. (Did you ever see "Reefer Madness"?)..I rented it a couple of years ago, and it was (unintentionally) hysterical!!!  Sadly, many doctors still see drug dependency in this light today!  Also, sadly, a lot of doctors will not responsibly treat patients today, because of a fear of liability.  They don't want to touch us!  You've gave me something to really think about.  Peace/Love, Lisabet

[DianaDress]

I am taking Methadone 10 mg. 8 a day, plus tramadol for breakthrough, I have Osteogenisis Imperfecta, with multiple broken bones, however I too am addicted now to all these pills. I now started taking Klonipin .5 mg 2 times a day because I had heard that klonipin makes methadone boost up and work better. Is that true?

Diana Dressler