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LARCETS AND WEED?
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LARCETS AND WEED?

Hi all i was wondering if you can help me .
I'm a 37 year old male i do realy well in life i have a good family and love life but i've been doing drugs for 24 years and like weed i realy don't like any other drugs any more .
I started doing larcets aroung a year ago on and off and i find lately if i don't have thim i feel like i'm turning inside out!
I use to smoke weed 5 to 10 time aday but if i smoke now i feel like i do when i'm not doing larcets.
I know i need help but i can't go to rehab i have a family that loves me and i love them i just want to feel better can any one tell me how long i have to not sleep,eat or feel good before it go's away?
Any info would be cool.
Any sites on LARCET addiction would be a great help.
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I think you may be talking about Lorcet? for pain?  Hydrocodone,  you have come to the right place....Loving your family has nothing to do with addiction,  it is a disease, one recognized by the AMA,what you are feeling when not using the Lorcet is classic withdrawal symptoms,,very uncomfortable but not life threatening,,everyone is different re: the duration of withdrawal,  usually 3 to 5 days for the intial withdrawls but then there is depression and all the things that come with no longer using narcotics...have you considered out patient treatment?  tapering off the hydrocodone?  decreasing your doseage every couple days   it can be done but it does take a firm committment...Thomas has a tried and true recipe for detoxing from hydrodocone  he should be pooing in any time now...maybe if you check out the other posts you may be able to find it hidden somewhere...have you ever thought about a 12 step recovery program? the disease of addiction is not cureable but it can be arrested, it is a life long battle,,,struggles with the "dragon" as wizard calls it...I know Wiz can help you also he has been clean for i think 30 days now and he did it himself...at home...he is truly an inspiration to us all...hang in there    and Thomas and Wizard can give you their testomonials and help you out with their suggestions......Love to all   cin
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along with my aol address ***@**** I have a new addy  ***@****   if i like Msn who knows I may ditch the aol....don't know yet...
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Weed can be psychologically addictive but not physically addictive -- that is, you won't suffer any physical withdrawal symptoms from quitting weed like you might from other drugs, such as Lorcet. If weed is making you feel like ****, now is a great time to get off the stuff. I have no moral or philosophical problem with weed, and I indulge in it occasionally myself, but I know it can be harmful to the lungs, esp. in the amounts you're using.
Thomas has excellent advice on cutting back/eliminating the Lorcets. I recently went through a prescription of Lorcets myself and was terrified I'd have withdrawals, but I had none at all!  I was lucky, I guess, though I was using a small amount for a short time.  You'll find some great advice & wisdom on this forum, and I wish you well.
Milo
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Well i'm on day two and i feel like hell!!!!!
I remember doing every dam drug there was growing up and never had a problem like i have now.
I've been stoned for 24 years and dam scared how i feel these days. I allways said i see nothing wrong with drug use as long as ya can hold your life in check.
Like i said i'm well off and when i try to qwite the **** i go 3 to 4 day's and i feel better and then i have a bad day and am all up tight i'm off on the chase with all the money i need.
The only drugs i do these days are lorcets and kind bud.
So why do i feel so bad??
I've done coke/pills{ups&downs}/acid/every dam thing and never felt like this i sure hope someone can help me i know it's time to qwite but it's scarie.
Any way if any one here want's to talk and help me my ICQ number is 110564321.
I'm sure glad there's a post like this.
peace!
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Just had a thought -- since you have access to weed, could that possibly help you through the few days of Lorcet withdrawal? Someone else on the forum would know the answer better than I, but since weed helps with nausea and relaxes you, it might be worth a shot? Milo
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Well, GLOCK, you're one of he lucky ones. You can actully do a bottle of Vics (Lorcets) and not start feeling desperate for 4 days? Let me tell youwhere you're headed. Do it long enough like me and you won't be able to get through a single day with less than 50 or 60 Lorcets in you - every day, saturdays, sundays, holidays. One thing you might note: I always found smokin pot minimized the high I was expectig from the Vicodin and soon stopped combining them. Smoking pot to fight the withdrawal doesn'twork, either. The pot simply doesn't do the same thing as the Vic/Lorcets.

But if you can go 4 to 5 days without being hit by true narcotic withdrawal from the lorcet, you'e in an excellent position to get on top of this problem. But you are going to have to do some rehab. At least outpatient rehab, because what's really driving you after those five days is the psychological need more than the physical. If you were really and truly addictd physically, you'd be after lorcets every single waking day or you'd be too sick to function.

personally, when I'm withdrawing from hydrocodone (lorcet), pot atually made me feel worse. It seemed to increase the muscle aches and anxiety. If you smoke while you're doing the locets, it's just a waste of some good painkilllers. If you smoke while you're withdrawing, you'll probably make the symptoms worse.

here's the recope cindi mentioned. I hope it's not too long for one post ...

Believe me, I know EXACTLY what you're going through. I admire your resolve to quit before you become someone like me. I've been addicted to prescription narcotics for more than thirty years. I lack the courage to even attempt to calculate what this lifelong obsession has cost me - not in dollars, but in all the ways it has limited my life experience. I call it a lifelong obsession because I cannot consider myself simply a pain patient who inevitably became addicted to the source of his pain relief. I love narcotics. Not like them. Love them. I have wasted a good deal of the time I have on this planet chasing drugs with the same ardor as a man pursuing the love of his life. Why? Thirty years later and I still haven't a clue.

The good news is that you've seen where this activity is leading you at an early stage. The last time I entered a rehab (at the court's "request"), I was taking seventy-five Vicodin per day, seven days per week.

Of course, that doesn't make what you're going through any more bearable. The nighttime body and especially thigh and ankle pains are textbook Vicodin withdrawal symptoms.

I know you're trying to get through this cold turkey, but, man, Vics are one of the most unpleasant "cold turkey experiences" going. Do you have, or can you get access to some benzodiazepines - drugs like Valium, Xanax, Librium, Klonopin? Without them, what can I say, it's going to be rough whatever you do. Perhaps you've got a friend or a relative with a few in the medicine cabinet - it doesn't sound like you've got a family doctor to turn to. Assuming you can get some Valium or one of the other benzos, plan for about 4 or 5 days on the stuff, starting the first couple days with enough to basically keep yourself "out of it," then gradually decreasing the benzos down to nothing.

Of course, there's the ever-popular runs! Get the brand-name Imodium (immodium) and take two at a time at each hint of the runs. This symptom will pass after the first few days and is easily taken care of by the Imodium (immodium).

Whether or not you can get any benzos, the only thing that really helps the leg cramps are hot baths or Jacuzzis - as many as you can stand. I've found that Enteric aspirin can help the aches and pains, as well, but not to any dramatic extent.

Sometimes, if you can just get yourself to sleep to begin with, you can make it through the night. When I didn't have an rx for it, I found a double dose of benydryl helped put me out - it's also called sleep-eze and is over the counter. But don't expect miracles. It will either work or it won't. Don't increase the dose if it doesn't.

Now for the interesting stuff:

Go to the health food store and buy a bottle of 100 of the 500mg L-Tyrosine capsules along with a bottle of B6 capsules. Your Norco use has caused your brain to become depleted of several neurotransmitters responsible for your ability to function and feel good. Until these substances are restored, you'll feel like **** no matter what you do. They will come back by themselves, but it will take a long time. Taking the L-Tyrosine and B6 provides your brain with the raw materials it needs to rapidly create and replenish these vital brain substances. This is how you take it:

Take 4000mg (four-thousand - eight 500mg caps) plus 200 mgs of B6 on an empty stomach, either at bedtime or in the morning. I never have an empty stomach at bedtime, so I have always taken this formula in the morning. Get up early if you can, so you can take the dose at least two hours before you have to leave for work. (Don't eat any breakfast for at least one hour after taking the dose.) I say two hours because that much L-Tyrosine can go through your system and cause some mild runs, and you certainly don't want to be in your car when that happens. It's caused the runs in me about 20% of the time I've used L-Tyrosine. Also, the L-Tyrosine, among other things, stimulates the production of norepinephrin (SP?) a neurotransmitter responsible for mental energy, alertness and ambition. So don't drink any coffee with this stuff!

The good news is that many recovering narcotic addicts feel the difference after the first dose. You can suddenly think straight, your mood turns a bit more optimistic, and, in general, you start recovering your faculties, your energy, your enthusiasm and ambition for living life.

At your state, I'd recommend taking the L-Tyrosine and B6 EVERY morning for the first four days, then every other morning until you don't feel you need it anymore.

Beyond that, I'd highly recommend some kind of exercise, even if you feel like hell while you're doing it. It helps get rid of all that tension that builds while you're pacing the room wondering how you got yourself in this mess. Even just a swift walk will help.

That's what I know about handling the physical side of this problem. The hardest part to deal with, however, is that thing in your head that made you go on the Norco to begin with. I cannot recommend strongly enough that you seek out and attend some AA or NA meetings. I always get a lot of guff from certain of my friends on the forum for this, but I recommend AA over NA. Why? I can only go by my own experience and tell you that I found a lot more sobriety in AA and a lot more people working stronger programs than in NA. Besides, almost everyone I know in AA is also a pill addict, anyway, so it is not as inappropriate as it sounds. I'm sure there are some fine NA meetings, I just didn't find any. Granted, I was incarcerated in a residential program and my choice of NA meetings were all in hardcore neighborhoods. Many of these meetings turned into sessions spent listening to homeless heroin addicts begging the other attendees for money, a place to stay, anything. That is definitely not what we go to these meetings for. I say, just seek out the meetings (and a sponsor) that for whatever reason helps give you strength to go one more day without the Norco and go with that.

Just to keep myself honest here, I have been free of Norco or any opiate for about four months, so I still have a lot of challenges ahead of me. My biggest problem is that I liked the benzos so much I became addicted to them and now, every time I try to get off of them (or run out), I have a seizure. Nice, huh? But don't worry, if you use the benzos just to get off the Norco, you won't be running this risk.

Just remember: You've done nothing of which to feel ashamed. You're a normal, decent human being who succumbed to a weakness we all, as members of the human race, share
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Hi Thomas...I can't help but notice how you go out of your way to be so incredibly helpful to everyone here. I personally have taken your incentive as my own and am tapering down (by strngeth and qty) and my goal is to only use 20 vicodin per week. I don't think I could just let the migraines go untreated...but hopefully I can get by with 2.5 a day. I stepped down from 8 norco to 4 (last week) and then from 4 to 3..then from 3 norco to 3 vicodin 7.5/500. I feel pretty lousy right now but I want to do this, I just think that very slow methodical tapering will be my key. Didn't have a problem cutting the dose in half in one day, but now it's getting a little hard. I will continue to come here for encouragement and support. I had some sleepless nights and the worst depression...not even a double dose of my anti depressant helped. My arms trembled uncontrolably, and I felt like I was dying when I switched strengths, but it passed quickly. I wished I hadn't flushed all the methadone/clonopin last year though, that's for sure.

Anyway, here's cheers to everyone...keep fighting the good fight! God bless, Beth
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Thomas, thanks for the clarification re weed & withdrawal. I thought the weed might act like the benzos, but you have more knowledge of this than I.
You're also dead-on about the brand-name Imodium (immodium). The generic brands seem to produce cramps and other "Fun" side effects, while the brand-name Imodium (immodium) just does its job. The advice to take two at a time is also wise & to be followed.
Irony: beore I ever started abusing Rx drugs, I missed a lot of work due to real, honest-to-goodness physical illness. I was taking Valium & Zoloft at the time but not abusing them. I was also taking Fioricet now & then, which I was abusing. But I wasn't staying home so I could stay high! I was too damn sick to  go to work. So now I try like hell to make it to work no matter how bad I feel. I also avoid Fioricet on workdays.I'm still very resentful at the people who assumed I was absent due to drug use. I feel I've been condemned without appeal. Any thoughts on how to handle this? Milo
PS Thomas, I'm in the writing game, too.
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Man,  sometimes I get so lost without you  LOL  I get nuts when someone needs your recipe and your gone and I can't find what I did with it  LOL  it is getting to the point where I pretty much have it memorized but still I didn't want to dish out any worng advice.....I knew you'd be back soon     hope you ahd a good weekend  Love    cin
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haven't seen wizard all day  this makes me nervous  he is at that one month mark I think.....hopefully he is at a picnic....one day absent usually is no biggie here but for wiz, I know he usually posts at least once      love to all     ~~cin~~
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I am sure Thomas is OK, you are right he is probably at a picnic or something like that.. I feel the same you do though, that is why I was wondering about Spook when he left however Thomas filled me in a little... I know I leave for awhile cause I had things to do but always come back.. Weekends seem to be when we have time to come here but holiday weekends can throw us off... Don't worry Cin... all is well... ;-)

xoxoxo

^j^ ^j^
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i am going on 48 hours withdrawing i am using the tyrosine ,b6 i have lomotil for the runs it works great .also i am taking b-complex injections and the diet pill adipex for energy all this working very good my withdrawal are minor the only thing bothers me at night my elbows start to hurt and twitch is there anything i can take for that .i have the valium and the xanax too to get knocked out and i am ready to go to sleep .thomas what do i do for my elbows  i feel pretty good with this plan that i am following knowing i have been abusing the hydro for years 18 tablets a day...
thanks
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Beth,
Thanks for the note. For a period of apprx. six years in my late 30's, I suffered from almost daily headaches that were termed "migraine-like" as opposed to classic migraine headaches. That of course meant all the migraine-specific medications like Imitrex and Caffergot, etc. didn't work worth a tinker's damn. I started my writing career about the same time these headaches started (I still write, only without anything but the occasional "normal" headache, thank you very much).

I'm curious about a few things. Do you have "classic" migraines - a very specific physiological phenomena - which usually responds quite well to the new generation of non-narcotics like Imitrex? Or are you like I was - plagued day after day by blinding headaches which caused me to spend half my time full of Demerol (didn't mind that part) in a darkened room. I know that, because of my past with narcotics, I have a wopping tolerance for any form of opiate. But, still, I'm amazed that you can deal with the kind of headaches I remember having with a mere 4 or 5 Vicodins!. When I was using Vics to deal with my headaches, I was taking 5 to 10 Vicodin at once every 4 hours. Kids, don't try this at home. STILL, it wasn't enough to significantly relieve the head pain.

Don't get me wrong. I'm delighted you can cope with so few. What I'm wondering is this: if you continue to have migraines, and you don't find a substitute treatment, why would you be so concerned if not guilty about taking the Vicodin? Vicodin is for the relief of moderate to severe pain. It's not the source of all evil. Or the sign of moral failure. As long as you're taking just enough to provide the pain relief you need, why cut the dosage? You must remember that this forum features posters who are medical patients who become addicted to their source of pain relief, and "the real Mcoy" honest to god drug addict, such as myself, who has led a life typified by my very real love of drugs.

You are the former. I am the latter. I hope my writings aren't making you feel pressured to cut down when you are obviously in pain. By junkie standards, you're not using enough Vicodin to even register on the "abuse" meter. Best of luck.

Peace.  
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I'm sure glad i'm not a bad off as some as these post i've read here.I can't beleave some people  take 50 lorcets or more a day!
I truely wish them the best.I kinda feel i might be wasting your time here caz i only take around 40 a month but it's been a year plus and like i said i don't like the way i feel!
Any way it's night time now and i feel realy tight gess i won't sleep well but after reading all the helpful info here i feel better knowing it will end !
Then i can work on staying clean and enjoying the next 30 years {god willing} anyway i'll let ya all know how it's going and i wish ya all well that have this monkey on there backs we all need to learn to be happy with out drugs.
P.S. will sleeping pills help me sleep?
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Hi Milo,
If you don't mind me asking, what illness were you dealing with the Valium and Zoloft - were you suffering from an anxiety disorder? How did anyone at work first get the idea you were on drugs? I'm betting it was the Fiorinol - if you take it too much or too often it slurs your speech. I've personally had that happen to me at work.

The only way I shook a drug reputation was to change jobs. Sorry I don't have a better idea - unless you can transfer to another department of the company. It seems once you've got that handle, you either live with it, outlast your co-workers, or change jobs. Good luck in your writing endeavors.

Thomas
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Miguel,

What you've said all sounds fine, except for the adipex. You know, don't you, adipex is phenetermine, related to the amphetamines. I've "played with phentermine" and I know it can pack an amphetamine-like wallop. If possible, I'd discontinue any kind of stimulant while you're trying to get off Vicodin. You're after rest and tranquility, not the frenetic behavior that phentermine leads you too. I know it feels great. No doubt. But, in my case, taking a stimulant would make me crave even more Vicodin. It also is compromising the effect of the Valium and the Xanax. They are meant to provide you with muscle and emotional relaxation while you're going through you're detox - also sleep, if your lucky. As far as your joint pain, I'd take 1000mg of ENTERIC aspirin and all the hot baths or Jacuzzis I could get.

If you take anything from this post, STOP taking powerful stimulants like adipex while you're trying to detox. It just won't work. Besides, you'll have to detox from the adipex eventually and that won't be any picnic. If I need a little stimulant to get started at work or something, I take half a no-doze caffeine pill. You'd be surprised how effective they can be -AND THEY'RE NOT AMPHETAMINES! GET IT!

Good luck, Miguel. I hope I've helped.


Thomas
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I know what you mean. They all don't need exactly the same thing, usually, but I've saved one version which I find saves time.
Hope you're having a great memorial Day.

Love back to you,
Thomas
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You were 100% right about the Fioricet causing the problems. Even in regular, prescribed doses, it afftected my speech, walk, etc. The strane thing is, I didn't know it! I seldom drink, but when I've gotten tipsy, i've known it. Not so with the Fioricet. You were unfortunately right about co-workers' attitudes. I feel like I've been condemned and sentenced with no hope of appeal. No matter what I do, I'll always be the department druggie -- or at least I'll worry about it.
I've suffered from physical problems (GI, respiratory, you name it) caused by anxiety ever since I was a child. I think I've tried just about every med in  the book...OCD has also been a lifelong "companion".  The SSRI's were the first thing to give me relief from my obsessions -- when I hit the right dose, they worked like magic! Unfortunately the depression still persists. The anxiety disorder is characterized by panic attacks, excessive worry, physical symptoms, etc. The Valium keeps it somewhat in check.
BTW, I admire your willpower/nerve in quitting the Darvon. That couldn't have been much fun.  More later --  Milo
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Cin, it's 7:15p.m. my time here inCaifornia. I just read your post. THANK YOU so much for your concern. I just got back from a wonderful family day and this is the 1st chance I've had to log on.I'm OKAY for sure! I'm about at my 1 month mark or so and yes there have been moments of "Dragon" whispers that we all know, but I have been strong with all your suppport :-)! God bless you all....Being clean of the "dragon" is a great NEW high for me LOL. The board looks real busy today, at least this string..it's the first I read.
Thomasmy friend I hope you and Cin had a good weekend. You as always have come to rescue here and I just know what I could add to the above posts today other then the encouragemnt of IT CAN BE DONE! Thomas you also answered a question I had. I wondered how long you have been clean this time and I was concerned about your seizures. Congrats on the 4 months. I'm looking forward to mine. I hope all is well for you and I will keep you in my prayers as always. You too Cin...but that's a given isn't it Dorothy? LOL God bless you all, I'm gonna move on down the strings here.
Power & Magick 2 U all,
Peace & Light on us,
Wizard
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Two part question, and i apologize for interrupting this thread, as the board is at it's full capacity for new questions.

To quit 'cold turkey' would be very difficult for me because i work full-time, and can't miss work, plus i have three small children to care for, and it would be extremely difficult to be laid out in bed fighting withdrawls.  I can't even knock myself out with xanax to help get through it.
Currently, i snort oxys.  I use about 50 mg of oxys per day (amplified by snorting).  Would it be possible to use Lortabs instead, and take them .5 (1/2 at a time) throughout the day, and slowly cut back on those.  Will i be able to function and avoid the withdrawls by slowly lessening the dose?  Has anyone had any experience getting off of oxy's like this?  Help!

Second part:
Question from my husband:
He would to know what will happen if oxycontin get taken off the market.  He is a heavy oxycontin user (shoots), and i don't think using lighter opiates will help him much.  Plus, he definately does NOT want the tylanol in the quantities he would need to use to match his current habit.  
There is a lot talk about oxycontin and exactly how long they will be available.  I wish he would be more concerned about how to quit rather than what will be the replacement, but he just isn't at that point (yet, i hope).
Any ideas?
Thank you for reading our questions, and good luck to all!
Jenny & Robert
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<font face="arial, helvetica" size="2" color="green">Hello Thomas- yes, my migraines are "mioptic(sp?)/complex classic", meaning they onset with sever "aura" (Blinding lightspots in both eyes) and the pain sets in (both eyes) hard and heavy...can't stand it. Always accompanied by severe tremors and vomiting. I've had them since I was a toddler, and all the "migraine specific" drugs did a big fat load of <i>nothing</i>, and I mean nothing. <i>Dozens</i> of other NSAIDS and betablockers and 1000's of dollars in neurological test didn't, either. For this reason, I don't feel <b>guilty</b> about taking the vicodin per se, I just don't want to be dependant. I am planning a trip to Europe and what would I do if God forbid my medicine was stolen or lost, etc? I just feel that taking so much is harder on me in the long run than dealing with the migraines. Plus I just turned 21 this month, and I hate being basically controlled by something at such a young age. I feel like cutting the dose so significantly was stepping away from the stranglehold I feared, and hopefully progress will only continue from here.
God bless you, Thomas.</font size></font color></font>
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thank you thomas
iknow what audipex is it really helped for 3 days last time i was withdrawing  .i am or was planning on using it for the first
3 days .i dont like these types of medications .just seem to help
me get going during the day but it will take your advice for it ,iwill stop them i am going on my 48 hours now my second night usually after 3 nights i am fine it gets better from there
i have been through this about 20 times but i keep going back
to the hydro but this time i made a promise to myself ,my family and god i will never touch this stuff again
thank you thomas by the way do you anything about nelxtrone   dose really help keeping you away from the hydros
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I have to get to work so I have to be brief but I'm sure someone else like Thomas or Wizard will pop in..Yes you can use hydrocodone spaeced throughout the day but .5 is really not much I don't think..see what happens...you probably will feel uncomfortable anyway...play around with the doseage of vicodin to what suits you the best and take it from there,  soon though you will have to start cutting back on your hydro doseage...or you may become addicted to that..please keep in mind that tapering is hard,  and it does need a firm committment....as far as robert i don't know what to say about replacements....a pharmacist friend sasi that if and when they take them off the market to everyone that there may be a special form you have to fill out etc. in order to get them...sorry I could not have been more help.....THOMAS?   WIZ OH,,WIZ?   WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?   LOVE TO ALL  CIN
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HEY Wizard,  I'm glad you had a good day,,,yes I was concerned...but now I feel better....off to work....later tater   love to all     cin
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Thank God I have found such wonderful people who understand what this is like...A little more of my story...I was prescribed Fioricet for severe headaches several years ago, and fell in love with it. I feel as though my nervous system is in a constant state of overdrive, and only meds such as Fioricet & Valium are able to calm it down. Unfortunately the side effects of Fioricet (slurred speech, etc.) combined with numerous absences from work convinced some of my co-workers that I was "on drugs." The irony is that the days  I called in sick, I was *not* taking anything -- just suffering from major physical problems (chronic since childhood), My attendance record has been good for three years now, but I still feel "under the gun",,,and I lost a dear friend because of all this. For some time I've been extremely depressed. I've tried the tyrosine & am going to try the zinc/magnesium mentioned in another post. I'll try anything to claw my way out of this hell. I never thought I would feel so old at 38...Thanks for listening & understanding, Milo
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try it at age 47!
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Jenny, I must say you are in a situation which in my opinion makes it very difficult to kick. I know of no way to have no withdrawels completely. Only some ways of lessoning them and you've read them here before. Thomas has the best recipe I've used  and it works. my experience was with hydro, soma and oxy's that I mixed daily although in large quantities I never snorted any of them. I personally just stopped cold turkey after years of opiating myself. It was hard but NOT impossible. I was able to work.(barely) But I can't imagine trying to do it with another member in the house using to the extent of shooting them and trying to figure out how to do the same with hydros.Jenny I mean this in only a caring way but you mention your children.....are they there to see all of this? Saying it would be difficult is true but you have to break this chain for the children. This is only my opinion, doesn't mean I'm right, only just what I think. With me it's ALL or NONE. I couldn't taper if I had them around me, especially constantly. It takes a lot of will power, faith and determination to do it. I know you CAN.
I will keep you in my prayers  Jenny. You and your family. I hope somebody can give you more and better advice than I.
Power & Magick @ U,
May God bless U,
Wizard
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I had some tests done last week, blood test and ultrasound to make sure i wasn't doing major damage to myself with all this abuse (alcohol and 40mgs of oxys per day).
Everything came back normal except for a slight higher level (we're talking 7 points over normal) with my serum lipase, which is my pancreatis (pancreatitis).  I had some pain for about 1-month, but now it's gone, and the dr does believe that it probably was pancreatis (pancreatitis).  He says i probably don't drink enough to have caused it, it was probably caused by a virus.  They are thinking now that a virus actually can cause pancreatis (pancreatitis), and that many diabetics have problems with insulin because of contracting a virus at some point in their lives; they're no longer sure it's so heritary.
Anyway, i felt i should come clean and tell him about my drug use.  I spoke to a person in his office last year, when i wanted my husband to see him (he's a internal dr), about his jaundice.  Needless to say he never went, but i remembered what one of his office personnel told me.  This dr was very kind, and that he had helped her boyfriend get away from alcohol.  So i decided to fess up and see if he could help in any way.
I ended up crying my eyes out and told him that i don't want to live like this, and what hurts most of all, is what i might possibly be doing to my children.  They deserve to have the best, and i can't possibly be at 100% like this.  My children LOVE me to death, i am so lucky and thankful for that.  They love me with all their little hearts, as i love them with every ounce of love in mine, why can't i do this simple thing; get off of this ****!!!
I told the dr that whenever i took a trip (1,200 miles away) to visit all my family, no cravings, no nothing.  I go in 11 days for the week, and i'm curious to see how well i do this time around.  I don't want to use while with my family!!!
If i can pull this off, this will be a great start, and then let's see if i can continue my behavior after returning to my 'main reason why i use, because i can't stand to see what is happening, so i try to numb my pain.'  What happens while i don't use, and my husband does, A big, gigantic gap grows between us, and we don't get along at all!  That will happen again, and it will lead to us splitting up, i just know it. Now maybe, just maybe, if i get the help I need, maybe he will follow.  Anything's possible.  I have the name of a good 'Outpatient Counselor', from this dr.  I'm going to give it a try, and maybe my husband will jump in too 'after i test the water' so says my dr.
My husband told me this morning, that he wished he could go to rehab.  he is afraid that he will loose his job for sure if he goes again.  They put up with it once, and he doubts very very much that they will ever go for it again.
Another thing, my doctor just got busted.  I don't know any details, but he was a big-time pill-pusher.  I'm taking these things all as signs that 'it is time'!!!
I was explaining to my husband, last night, that he is like a tornado.  He spins around and around and creates a path of destruction destroying everything that is in his path.  Also, taking anything weak enough to get caught up in it and destroying that too!
It's so sad, and i'm so sad.  I need to find the willpower to do this!!!!!!  HELP!!!!!!  :(
Lv Jenny
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Hi,
I just read your post to me, and thank you!!!!
You are absoluately right about the children, and that is what tears my heart in two most of all!!!!  They are gorgeous, wonderful children, i just can't tell you how lucky i am having them.  They are a true gift from god, and should not be taken lightly; another reason i am so ashamed of myself.
My husband could NEVER taper down, NEVER!  He would do best going back to an in-patient rehab again, maybe longer than 28-days this time.  Actually, to tell you honestly, i think he would be better off without me all together.  I feel i am a great part of his problems.  I am a wonderful mother, and wife, but i am so darn co-dependent, i feel he doesn't have a chance with me.  I've been to counseling, etc. etc., but i so tired of being responsible (or at least feeling this way), for other people.  I don't want to prevent, or be the cause of anyone elses problems anymore!!!!
I want some time to myself to figure out who i really am.  I've been together with my husband for 20-years now.  I was 18 when we first started to go out.  Before that, i had a boyfriend who was a creep, and ended up going to NYC every weekend to shoot up herion, and i was only 17 then, and I used to drive him!!!!!!  What was i NUTS!!!!!!  I wouldn't do drugs then, at ALL!!  I'm sure he's dead (back when aids was around, but no one knew it).  Before that, i had a best friend that i buddied with all of the time.  We were close, so i never really knew what it would be like to really get to know Jenny.  I would love to have the opportunity to get to know myself for once.  I was EXTREMELY shy while young, and still somewhat.  I was always very pretty, so that helped get me out of my shell somewhat.  
I feel like my life is falling to pieces, my life seems so dark right now.  I don't know how to get away from the drugs while with my husband, i don't know if it's possible.
The dr. I spoke about in my previous post honestly really feels, that it might come down to us having to split up to save myself and our children.  I go into major anxiety attacks just thinking about it.  I can't bear the thought of being alone!!!!
Aren't you sorry you posted to me?  lol!  I feel like a wacko!!!
Keep up the good work, you're doing a terrific job!!!!!
Thank you for listening to me!
Lv Jenny
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Thank you Cindi, you're a sweetie!
You did answer my question.
When i go up north to visit family, i'm bringing only loratabs, and no oxys.  I will use them 1/2 at a time, very limited.  I can stand to feel somewhat uncomfortable, but lets see how uncomfortable i actually feel when i will be surrounded by my loved ones with no husband to worry about.  I might be able to do this after all!!!!!!!
Thank you again!
Lv Jenny
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Jenny, I am NEVER sorry to post to someone crying out for help. As I've said before there is always someone here to lend a hand or a shoulder .KEEP FOCUSED!  You are saying the right things so I know you are headed in the right direction. I've been told by others here who know that this is a time you NEED to be selfish to get through it. Then you can give back to the family. All of your futures depend on this. Get the help and stay with us here. I'll keep praying for you Jenny, you and your children and I'll pray that your husband reconsiders his position. God Bless You
Power & Magick 2 U,
Luv,
Wiz
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Thank you so much for your support, it is really really appreciated!!!!!
I told a good friend of mine that I 'drink',she is a friend on a babyboard (we had babies at the same time -- roughly 15-months ago).  It was a big step for me, but i feel like if i'm honest to people that i'm close to, maybe i can start to be honest with myself.
The more people I tell, the more of a reality it is becomes; not so many places to run and hide anymore, you know.
I went through this last time I stopped using, right before my husband went into rehab (not by his own will, but very very grateful to get help once in there).  I started to tell people the truth, and it worked.  Only after my husband got out of rehab, and relasped a couple months later,and caught out house on fire (accidentially), did i relaspe.  I wasn't working any kind of program, just one in my head.  No support from anywhere or anyone.  It's hard to do it like that!  But anyway, I started using again until i found out i was pregnant (which was right away), and stopped that day.  I feel into a deep depression, but tried to concentrate on getting the house back together( we where out for 4-months), then concentrating on the arrival of our new baby.  After the baby was born, i was happy, full of new mother endorphines.  Everything was good for a little while.  I was home for 6-weeks, then took the baby to work after that, and still have her here in fact.  She will be starting daycare in august when my son starts kindergarden.  Anyway, it took a little while to start using again, but i quickly went into full-swing.  Actually, much more than i've ever done.  I know this isn't me, and i deserve so much more in life.  I want to beat this. If i'm so teary now,what will it be like once i quit?
Oh, I did slow way way way down, and didn't drink for a week one time back in february.  I was a mess, but you know what, i looked GREAT after that week, and i was very emotional, crying all over the place, but i felt very lite and 'clean'.  I had the flu and couldn't drink a drop of liquir.  In fact, i didn't eat for 5-days.  I now know i was actually suffering some of the effects of withdrawal, but was too sick to realize it.  I had cut way way way down on oxys too.  I want that 'clean' feeling back, not this 'stuffy clogged' feeling.
Lv Jenny
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You have my prayers and thoughts,,,,you can do this...We all can do this....good luck,,,,i have to go and halpe mydaughter  geeze everytime i try to get on something or someone distracts me...I am not trying to avoid talking to you   believe me...i will get back on later    love to all cin
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It's funny how using does in fact make us feel like supermoms..we have this to do and that and by no means am I minimizing what men do compared to us but for so long society says we have to do the dinner, laundry, kids, work, run a household etc...only to do it all night and then agin all day...Thank God, My husband is wonderful,,,he helps with the kids' showers, homework,  he does the laundry cuz i hate it,, I dust and vacuum and do dishes cuz he hates it...we compromise...but when using we feel like we can do it all....but the kids listen better to him  LOL    anyway...i am off the subject a little....I hope when you go away you do take enough lorcets or whatever,,,of vacation is not the time to do the cold turkey schuffle....you could wind up being really sick...then what?   i think I said it in another post  geographical cure is not the answer hon..I know  been there,,,as a matter of fact when i was swiping drugs from the hospital i never took a vacation and worked extras so i would not run out...cancelled all my vacation time....it was a nightmare....i was so exhausted with nowhere to turn...maybe while on vacation you can start to taper somewhat and then really get down when you get home but remember once you are clean that is when the work starts....maybe 12 step programs....and then naranon for you....like a narcotics version of alanon...have faith and pray...I will pray for you...My thoughts are with you    love to all cin
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Awww, you are such an angel, and I thank you!
I'm just so darn 'sad' tonight.  Not withdrawl (withdrawal) sad, just plain sad!
It is so difficult to watch my husband who has changed so much during his time with addiction.  It started roughly 4-years ago, just after we moved to this area.  Unfortuately, there was far too much drugs available around here.  He's always been an addict, it was just a matter of time before he came across an area where it would be easy enough for his full addict- personality to blossom.  We've been together for 20 years, and we've both always drank.  He has always smoked pot, but other than those two things, nothing else really.  Oh Cocaine during a brief time, and speed before i met him, and pain pills whenever he could get his hands on them, but nothing too serious.  Alcohol was always the major problem, and if i had only new how much worse it could get once he got his hands on pain pills; they are like nothing else!!!!!  I've never seen something get such a strong hold on a person, and i've never seen something take someones life and self completely away like that.  If we had only knew, right from the beginning, i would have convinced him to not even get into that, and told him all the dangers of it.  Wow, opiates are pure evil!!!!!  I'm sure those with real pain are thankful for them, but for those who get too caught up in them and let them destroy everything that you once cared for, they are pure evil!
All i can think about was what once was.  What we had once, and who we used to be; i just can't stop crying tonight!  I know i'm losing him at a rapid rate, but he isn't even a person that i know anymore.  Once in a while i catch a glimpse of him down there somewhere, but it's always only brief.  He is so far-gone and looks so very sick, it's like watching someone slowly die of cancer, only difference is, i feel so guilty because i know there are things i should be doing to try to help him.  Things like tough-love (which almost killed me last time around 2-years ago), and getting help from relatives to get him in rehab and to help me and the children get by with the bills.  I can't ask my family, so it would be his family, and i just don't want to go there.  They are so weird.  His mom is an alcoholic, sober 10-years, but a dry-drunk as far as i'm concerned.  She seems to blame everything on me, nothing is ever his fault.  His sister offered to help, but she scares the **** out of me.  She is a District Attorney of a town in PA.  His dad died at age 50, he was a big-time alcoholic.  Robert is now 43, and i doubt very seriously that he will beat his dad's record.  I just don't know how i will ever live with myself if he dies.  This is just tearing me apart and destroying my life.  I watch him every day, and he is usually in semiwithdrawal because it just takes so darn much to get him out of it these days.  I just found out that my dr, who prescribes me oxy's - for on reason really, just got busted.   This is an omen that 'it's time to stop'.  Anyway, my husband seems so tired and out of it all of the time lately.  He forgets everything I talk about with him.  He seems confused a lot of the time.  I just wonder how much longer he will be able to continue working and getting by like this.  I am so scared and the most miserable i have ever been in my entire life.  I can't seem to do anything to feel better other than using the pain meds.  It's the only thing that seems to deaden this horrible pain somewhat.  It's weird, i'm fine when i'm away from him, no cravings, no nothings.  But this time around, i know i will feel stronger withdrawal effects.  I'm doing more lately than i was during my last visit up north.  I'll do my best.  I feel like going up there, and never coming back.  I know i could save myself if i did that, but i love my husband, or at least i think i do.  i find it hard to love what is left of him lately though, and feel very guilty for that.  He is an irritable, confused man, who snaps at the kids and me, and doesn't make sense half of the time.  He's on a different planet lately, and i feel so all alone and scared.
This is so painful, i'd rather be shot a million times than to be left here to suffer and feel this pain.
My family hasn't a clue as to what is going on.  They knew my husband had gone to rehab back 2+ years ago, and they had to beg me to tell them what was going on practically.  I was forced to fess up, and it wasn't my choice, and it only made it worse with them knowing.  So since after rehab, as far as they know, he has slight problems, but there's know leaning on them this time around.  God help me if they EVER find out about me.  In fact, when my husband and i get into an argument, a real bad bad one, that's what he always threatens, to tell my parents about me.  Actually that hasn't happened in a while, but that hurt so so so deep.
Another thing, i have to be superwomen, he does NOTHING around the house, NOTHING.  I work full-time and take the baby with me to my office job.  I pick up the kids, i clean the house, laundry, shop, cook, take care of all the pets, take care of the yard (except for mowing, we have lawn service), take out the garbage, do the bills, you name it, i do it.  Take care of the three children, i do everything for them.  My husband basically lays on the couch or shoots up in the bathroom, that's the extent of his activity in this house.  Really, honesty, i do not lie!!!!  Plus, to boot, he's always calling out 'honey' can you get me this, can you make me that!!!!  I kid you not!
I swear they are going to have to commit me soon.  I do all of this and try my absoluate hardest to cover up and make sure my kids are least affected as possible with all this.  I know i know, they are very aware and kids are so smart, they know it all!  I try though, i really do!  I don't know what else to do at this point.  I see my husband slowly dieing in front of my eyes with his yellowed, cloudy eyes.  The pain is horrific!!!!
Thank you for reading my book.  I'm so sorry this got so long, but it really really helped me to get this out.
I type too darn fast for my own good!  :)
Lv Jenny
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always amazes me when people can actally "taper" down or off of their drug of choice. I have to use my supply up like the giant asteroid is about to hit the Earth, then sweat is out for a week. My hats off to anyone who can just (vountarily) reduce their dosage. Of course, because of my seizures when I run out of Xanax now, I'm having to taper down anyway. Maybe it being a matter of life and death will give me the strength to pull it off. If the past is any indication, I wouldn't bet my next paycheck on it. Wish me luck, cin!
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Allow me to wish you luck!!!
You can do it, you've beat the other, you can do this.
Is there anyone who can hold the xanax for you and help taper you off.  Just an idea, don't know if it's a good one, but thought i'd throw it out at you.
I used to have this incredible willpower, but i fear a demon stole it from me in my sleep one day!  I just don't feel it anymore!
I don't want to get to the point where I start to loose things that i love before it gets through my thick skull that this is no way to live.  I have my husband to look at every single day of my life as living proof of how drugs can destroy a perfectly 'good' person.
I don't know if this is a good idea, but is there anything 'natural' that you can take to relax you in place of the xanax?  Just a thought, you must crave the relaxation feeling that the xanax gives you.  Can you take the edge off with something like that from a health food store.  I hope this doesn't sound off-the-wall!  I'm only trying to help.
My prayers are with you that god will give you the strength that you will need to kick this beast!
Lv Jenny
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Thomas my prayers are with you brother. I don't know what to say. I'm just like you in the sense that it is all or crash and burn. Taper is not in my make up. Are you under a Doc's care? I seem to remember the last seizure episode you said your co=workers got you to the hospital. What came of that episode?
Would something like Buspar help? I believe it to be non-addicting physically. I have a family member who went from daily Xanax to Buspar and Paxil with good results. I wish I had more than support and prayers to offer you Thomas. You have given up so much for us and now I feel like I've short changed you. My heart is out to you brother.
God Bless you and peace be with you this evening.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Good Wizard Luck to you,
Wiz
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How about Clonzapam?
I know my husband was given this drug after rehab, and it's an anti-anxiety drug, and supposed to be much less addictive then your regular xanax and valium types.
It's not quite as smooth, but really does the trick?
Might be just about as bad, but thought i'd suggest it so you could research it for yourself.
Good luck!  Prayers!
Lv Jenny
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Well here it is day 3 i still can't sleep i'm trying every thing to sleep but nothing works!!!!!!
The chills have stoped and i've been staying away from the weed.
My wife worked for me to day .
I came clean with the wife and told her i had this problem and she is helping get tought this bull ****!
I sure hope if there's any young people out there playing with these pills i hope  your reading these post caz  it sure is a crazy thing something that can make you feel so good can make ya feel like hell {for 3 days so far} sure wish i never tryed this ****!!
Any way i figured i'd stop by and let ya all know how it's going.
I hope ya all feel good tonight and pray ya all find your way trought this crazyness!

<FONT COLOR="#4169E1">PEACE!</FONT>
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Good luck to you and prayers!
That's wonderful you confided in your wife; i'm sure she will give you much support and encourgement through this!!
You CAN do it!!!!!
Keep up the good work, and we are all here for you to lend you as much support as you need!!!!!
Fight it will everything you've got, you are worth the fight!!!
Lv Jenny
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you're ideas are both good - having someone dole out my supply and using something from the health food store to relax. Unfortunately, my will to use is so strong that I would get the pills back from the person at the last minute one way or another, or I'd go out and get some from another source. There just is no stopping me when I know the suppply is there and accessible. Valerian Root is a natural relaxant and does help me sleep but won't stop a seizure unfortunately. Neither will Soma. I think once you're as hooked as I am on benzos, nothing else will forestall a seizure but one kind of benzo or another. It's all up to me this week. Time will tell. Thanks for your support.
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you're just full of ideas tonight! Clonazapam is Klonopin (in the same family as Xanax)and is used, among other things, to prevent seizures. Becoming habituated to that stuff and then going cold turkey will produce a seizurethe same as Xanax or valium or librium, etc. The whole benzo family seems to have that in common. I'm araid I switched to Klonopin after my first seizure, abused the hell out of it of course, then went back to Xanax. Xanax acts more directly to control anxiety than Klonopin. That's the reason I use Xanax instead of one of the other benzos. Thanks again for the idea. Hope you and yours are well tonight.

Peace.

Thomas
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god bless you, too, Ruth.

Thomas
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thanks for your post, brother. The irony in all this is that I no longer suffer from anxiety requiring medication. I've just been on the stuff so long that I'm dealing with plain old benzo addiction. The only way out of this is to taper. I've been told that by my doctor, who is very supportive. I guess it's just one of those "adult" things when you have to do something you flat don't want to do but have to becuase too many people depend on you. One thing I'm going to do this week is talk at my AA meetings about it. I usually don't bring up the Xanax at the meetings (a lot of alcoholics are on small amounts of Xanax as part of their early alcoholism treatment) but I realize I need my group's help to pull this off.
I appreciate your concern and friendship.

Thomas
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Thomas- it's Beth, not Ruth. But thank you just the same- I appreciate it. :^)
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Thomas,  i've been good at the taper thing, that's why I say it takes a firm committment...but since I've been taking this **** for my back,  and now for what they say I have is fibromyalgia eventually I'll have to taper but my doc says we just wean off...yeah easy for her huh?        please watch the benzos...can you get to an er if you should run out?  somewhere,,before the seizures?  I have to grt to work   Late again because of this computer  LOL  my prayers are with everybody and Believe it or not I do think about you guys when I'm at work....I even gave you all faces....Thomas,,,do you know you have a mystache and a pony tail a very little bit salt and pepper hair...Wizard,  you are dark hair, parted on the side...and blue eyes ..not t all like the guy in the wizard of oz..and Jenny,  you have blode hair and suntan...brown eyes....ok..with that,,have a great day at least as best as can be and much love to all.....cindi...auburn hair  brown eyes...LOL
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<FONT COLOR="#4169E1">Well i give up on the cold turkey thing i'm on my way to the doctors to see if they have anything that will help me.
I've been up for going on 4 days with no sleep and last night was the worst i hurt all over and  i feel sick plus i'm mean as hell!
I can't even think right .Plus i've tryed the natural sleep aids and the reg. sleep aid and nothing works i'm about ready to go get valum { i have a freind}but i like the **** to {what to do?}.
Well i'll see what the doc has to say I WELL NEVER PLAY WITH THAT **** AGAIN.</FONT>
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Good luck. I will keep you in my prayers today.
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You're adorable, you gave us all faces, you crack me up!!!!
Let's see, you have brown hair (on the light side), with brown eyes or hazel possibly.
I think we've decribed yourself in the past, but i can't remember.
Well you are............... 100% wrong with me!!!!  lol!
I have blue eyes, not suntan at all, although i live in Florida, go figure!  These office flouresant lights just don't do it for me!  lol!  I have light olive skin (my Italian heritage), and i have light brown hair which is a good 3 inches below my shoulders.  I'm 5'3" tall and thin-106 lbs.  I used to be really pretty, but i feel these drugs and the stress i am under have robbed some of that from me, plus a part of my soul has died and you can see it in my eyes.
Take care and thank you for your post.
Lv Jenny
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What ever it takes dude, I'm here for ya!My prayers are with you and I know you'll do the right thing. You just look to your corner in this fight and I'll be there man.
Peace to you brother,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz
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ROFLMAO ;-) Dorothy, you crack me up! Heee hee....You are close on my picture....about 30 years ago. Hair was dark brown, now my head is shaved to about an 1/8" and salt & pepper LOL eyes brown not blue. Dark olive skin...Sicilian heritage. I do have a MAJOR WIZARD & DRAGON on my left arm though...you might coax me into sendin it to you LOL. Have a great one atcha later...this is coming from work..and yes Cin, I'm the cheese here LOL
Power & Magick 2 U,
Love,
Wiz
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What a dope, you posted what you look like at the bottom, dah!  I think i was interrupted while reading your post (by the phone or the baby or something).  Anyway, i was almost right, i didn't guess auburn, how pretty you sound!
:)
Lv Jenny
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<FONT COLOR="#FF4500">Well went to the doctors and he wanted to put me back on lorocet and wean me off in  two weeks  but i told him no why!!!
So he gave me some stuff to help me sleep it's called TRIAZOLAM {ANYONE HEAR OF IT?} he said it will knock me out and a freind is going to hook me with some valiums just in case this stuff don't work. i hate taking more drugs to fight this one but this **** is crazy.
I'm on day 4 and i feel alot better then i did this morning {tired} but if i can sleep i know i can beat this !!!!!
I feel for ya all and hope everyone here someday can enjoy life again with out drug! </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#FF0000">PEACE!</FONT>
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Ok  short Auburn hair,,(bottle)  used to be blonde....naturaly light brownish blonde....(I think LOL) Italian Heritage also...hey  CUMBAS , PIZONS,        Hey cheese Wiz,,,,,ROFLMAO  my husband has like 8 tatoos.. send me yours...he's jonesin for another one....jenny,,,I'm coming to fla.in about 4 weeks,,I'' be there for 2 looking for a house etc...let me know where you are..I plan on hooking up with Brighty....this outta be a hoot.....later taters     love to all cin  PS>>>do ya thaink Thomas has a ponytail and moustacche??   you can be sure I do not have a moustache.........LOL
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Triazolam is A benzodiazepene AKA Halcion,,,,be careful with it   It is meant for short term use and i definately would not mix it with the Valium..Halcion has caused people to do weird ****.....hang in there        love to all   cin
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I'm in south florida, just north of west palm beach.
My email is ***@****, so give me a shout girlie!
Where does Brighty live in FL?
Hmmm, a mustache, I don't know, you are probably right.
My hub has a mustache though.
Italians are the best!!!!  My parents just returned from a 16-day tour of Italy.  My grandparents came from Sicily, so it was wonderful for my dad to see where his parents actually came from.
I'm from NJ originally, and am headed up there a week from Saturday for 1-week.  Oh, that's right, i've been talking about that for days, hee hee!!!!!  And i'm going go with every ounce of strength that i have, and i'm gonna beat this thing.  It's not too far out of reach yet, i can get through this without too much pain, i think!  I'm still relatively healthy, and i feel that i have the strength to beat this!  With my families' love surrounding me, and a change in atmospere, basically out of my usual 'routine' of life, I can do this.  My usage is very very routine, the amount of drugs i do, and when i do them.  I'm really getting siked now!!!!!!!!
Lv Jenny
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Milo,
Here's something you should do before you start any rx drug. The web site www.rxlist.com is basically the Physicians Desk Reference on-line and will give you ALL the info about whatever your taking. Check out Fioricet. You'll find that the active ingredient is butalbutal, which is a generally non-sleep inducing barbiturate. It is an excellent anti-anxiety drug, but has the kind of side effects you'd expect from a barbiturate. Hence, the slurred speech and staggering gate. But keep that site in mind. It's the best info on rx drugs on the net.

Quitting Darvon was weird, because I quit it in the hospital recovering from my first benzo seizure. It's strange, but I haven't wanted another Darvon since. Now if I could just ditch the benzos!

Peace

Thomas
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Thomas -- You've probably already researched this, so forgive me if I'm telling you stuff you already know. As I understand it, Xanax is the most difficult benzo to discontinue because of its short half-life & other biological factors I don't understand. I've read that patients in England are switched over from whatever benzo they're on to an equivalent dose of Valium, then tapered from that. Apparently Valium has a longer half-life and can be divided into smaller doses more easily than other benzos, as time to discontinue draws near. There's a web site that even charts out equivalent doses & everything. A search under the name C. Heather Ashton should take you to it. I wish you all the success in the world in this endeavor. Let us know how it goes.
Glock -- Hang in there! You did the right thing going to the doc. The Halcion will indeed let you sleep, which you need. Just be ready, as Thomas has said, to taper & discontinue the Halcion or Valium so you don't start building a tolerance to those.
All best, Milo

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Hey, Glock,

Watch out with that Halcion. People have had memory and consciousness lapses on normal dosages with that stuff. AND DO NOT MIX IT WITH VALIUM. THEY'RE BOTH BENZOS. Halcion is for insomnia, true, but I found an amazing pill for insomnia by accident. I "inherited" a bottle of an rx drug called Sonata. You take it as you're hitting the pillow, it puts you to sleep quickly, and then it's out of your system in an hour(!) The idea is that it just GETS you to sleep, then exits the body. Absolutely zero hangover after using it, too. A great idea if you think about it. It beats taking Halcion and having that stuff in your system for half a day or more. Take Halcion or take Valium (I highly recommend the Valium), but don't take both!!!

Take care, man

Thomas
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Thanks, Milo, I'll take up the Valium idea with my doc. First I'll find that web site .....

Thoms
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Milo, my friend,
what a tip! I found the benzo withdrawal web site and printed out the info for my doctor. What she has to say about the short vs long half lives of different benzos making some harder to get off  than others makes perfect sense. I'm calling the doc in the morning. Thanks again!

Thomas
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Yay! I'm truly glad the info. helped. Keep me posted, if you will -- I'll be pullin' for ya!
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WOW! Milo What a great web site. I've been taking Ativan (lorazepam) for a long time and had NO idea that a 1mg tablet is equivalent to 10mg of Valium. It goes to show you that EVERYBODY here has something to offer. I also just found out that if I were to just stop I coud be in the same boat as Thomas with the seizures. Don't even want to do that. Thomas, I also read there on one of the links that if you are tapering off of Xanax or like  kind Benzo's to NOT take Buspar which I had suggested earlier as one Doc had used for a family member coming off of Xanax. Glad I went to the site. Thomas good luck to you with your Doc tommorrow. Milo, thanks again. I'll keep you both in my prayers.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light,
Wizard
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<FONT COLOR="#FF8C00">Hi all well did some valuim last night and got 8 1/2 hours sleep I FEEL GREAT! I sure hope i'm about done with the withdraws they are crazy my wife say i twitched all night long. Tonight i'm going to see if i can sleep with out them the doctor told me it take about 4 or 5 days and ya start coming down the other side well i'm heading into day 5 feeling great so well see how it is to night!! Seams like night and morning is the worst. Well i have a ton atings to do to day and will i  feel good i'm going to try to get **** done.
I most say you people sure are the nice i've ever seen at a post.
You guy taught me and the wife alot and surely are helping me .
</FONT>
<B>PEACE!</B>
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Wow, that's wonderful news, you made my day!
I am so happy you are feeling better and coming down the downside of this horrible nightmare.
My time is coming soon, i'm gonna try to beat this thing in 1.5 weeks while visiting family.  I need the strength from them to beat this.  They don't know about it though, so i'm alone!
We shall see!!!!
Sounds like you've made it home! :)
Lv Jenny
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Milo and Glock,
Well, the deal
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I'm glad the info. was helpful and that your doctor came through for you. Please let me know how the tapering goes; my best wishes are with you! Milo
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I'm glad the info. was helpful and that your doctor came through for you. Please let me know how the tapering goes; my best wishes are with you! Milo
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<FONT COLOR="#000080">Well Thomas and every onelse  that let me know not to mix valium with TRIAZOLAM thank you it's nice to know there's pepole out there that still care about mankind!!
This place sure is a big help.
Today i took the kid and wife fishing i'm feeling great i think it may be over been 5 days of hell but i'm not withdrawing at all right now and after them first 4  day i figured i'd never  feel good again you folks sure are a big help!!
i'm gooing to take some valium tonight just to make sure i sleep and then tomorro i'll drop by half  then the day after none that is is i still feel good.
I been playing with lorocet for over a year and today iwas so happy to feel so good i had to shead a few tears of happyness!!
I haven't felt this good for along time.
I know i will never touch the **** again ya all hang in there!
well i ges s i'll toy stould </FONT>
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I think I posted up there somewhere about the halcion....and valium  man , the could be deadly...Jenny I'll get in touch with you tomorrow,,gotta rinse some hair dye out  LOL  gray is coming through on my sides  Yikes  LOL   I was told today I definately have fibromyalgia   Oh well,,   life goes on   Thomas...hang in there  soon you will be completely drug free....hey I have to ask you a question    i'll e mail you as well,,,,my other e-mail address in ***@****    i forgot i have a year free of MSN  Jenny  My other e addy is ***@**** was originally from NJ also, and a friend of mine just moved there.....I am going to cape coral.....20 min from Fort Myers and about an hour from Naples and 20 minutes from Sanibell Island..   Oh la la     Ok  my hair is about to fall out   later tater  Love to all   cin
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I'm delighted you're feeling so good, my friend. However, if you've got the Valium supply, you might think about tapering the Vals a little more slowly. I've detoxed from Vicodin more times than I can remember (literally), and for weeks afterward, I had highs and lows, moments of euphoria followed by depression and a return of the cravings. So, be gentle with yourself. Don't beat yourself up if you need the valium for a few days more. It takes times, GLOCK. But the important thing is that you're on your way!

peace and happpines to you and your family,

Thomas
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<FONT COLOR="#00CED1">Hi all!
Well had to stop by and tell ya all i feel like god has bless me with life again!
I took only two valium 10s last night and sleep like a baby and i don't hurt any more.
Things are great .
It's been a year since i've felt this good i'm so glad you people are here!
I sure hope ya all get better i'll pray everday for ya all. i'm going to stick around for a little wile just to let ya know how it's going but i never want painkillers again!!!!!
Maybe someday i'll try kicking the weed but i sure do love the bud!
The next thing is the cig's i hate them but got to have them i only smoke around 10 a day so i don't think that will be that hard .After going trought the **** with lorocets i think i can deal with the withdraws of cigarettes.
I think  i might be one of them people you call a chiper.
  </FONT>
                        <B>PEACE</B> <FONT COLOR="#8B0000">G
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Congratulations   but stick around the forum you can be an inspiration to alot of people....I quit smoking about 6 or 7 years ago.....used the patch for about a week then decided it was bull ****.....sstarted again last year  smoked for 6 months,,,after my mom died from emphysema related complications I just quit,,,no nothing  just did it.....good luck     love to all cin
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<FONT COLOR="#6495ED">Well my wife tell's me it's been a week i'm been wiith out lorocets and let me tell ya i feel like i haven't in a long time it's funny how it sneaks up on ya and that was real pain i know i'll never do them again.
TO THOMAS/MILO/JENNYFLA/CINDI/AND EVERYONELSE. i'll hang out and maybe my qwick short week of hell will help someoone.
I know you guys real helped me the most besides my wife that is .But you let us know how to handle it and for that i thank you.
Hope everyone here get to where they want to be someday.
I know i only was a softcore user but the was th worst i ever felt now im on top of the world .
Thank you and peace and love you guys are  the best. </FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#9932CC">PEACE</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#8B0000"><B>G
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Congratulations on your week man! It's wonderful to hear about anyones wins. Be it one day, one week or one year! Every day without The "Dragon" is a win for our side! keep it up and hang in there. We are all rooting for you. God bless you AND your wife for her support!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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Hello Everone,
  Guess what Im a Hydrocodone addict to.Guess whats even worse? Here i sit ,cover around me(from cold chills),wide awake(from insomnia),weak as hell(from i guess not eating),going thru major withdrawl (withdrawal)..*cough* for the second time* cough*..I guess you would call this day one for me and my wife. I have been thru this once almost 2 years ago my wife and I both checked into rehab and left the places after the first night,after we got in rehab we both decided to call my parents and ask them if we could just borrow their guest room.(I cant stand being told when to sleep, eat,talk,and all that other inpatient rehab stuff) and thank god they helped us out..I remember that week of total hell and here I sit starting it all over again..HOW STUPID!..I swore to myself that Id never put myself thru that again, as did my wife.I stayed clean 6 months then had some oral surgery done.I figured its been long enough,one prescription wont hurt me. I got 40 LorTabs and before I knew it bam me and my wife were back on the bottle.Only this time was worse..more pills...more often..Well anyway I was just sitting around dieing for a dose (i have 3 pills in my pocket,for when the withdrawl (withdrawal) becomes unbearable) and decided to jump on the web to see if a site existed that may be able to chat with me or help me with any info on makeing these withdrawls a little more bearable.I have also gotten high most of my life on pot..two years ago when I quit the hydro the first time I gave up pot at the same time and never really picked it back up..mabye now and then ill smoke a joint but not everyday anymore..the pills have completly overridden any such desire for pot.My wife is asleep,I am so jealous of her.For some reason she can sleep while she is withdrawling.I cannot.Anyway getting to the point...I need some advice on what will help with these withdrawls..I have seen some suggestions like valium (I have friends looking) and over the counter sleeping pills and anti diareha stuff,I was wondering,I never drink,I hate it if I got drunk could it have the same effect as say the valium?--sleepwise and relaxationwise?The first time I did this I pretty much just laid in a bed and suffered,I prey that there is something that will ease the withdrawls this time.I didnt eat last time either--any tips on what may help keep my stomach in check enuff to keep something down?UGGGG I feel horrible I gotta get away from this computer chair and go lay in bed awhile i my whole damn body is cramping up ..Ill write back in a few hours....Ill be awake Im sure unless I break down and eat my just in case of emergency reserve.


Jamze
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Are you the same cindi in the other section on withdrawing from hydrocodone?  I need to know before I respond.

whitedove
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nope that above was my first post I would also like to ask if I get drunk will that help me sleep and kill this horrible mood or just make it worse with the hangover and such? and to get these drugs like clonidine or benzos can i go to a family doc or does it have to be some kinda special doc?Im desperate,if I dont get some sleep im gunna go nuts Ive tried over the counter junk ,dont work,I tried my sisters Ambien, dont work?Any one here ever did the outpatient thing where you detox at home? or what are your thoughts on methadone hospitals? Im terrified of feeling like this and worse for the next week!! any and all advice comments would help 8(

Jamze
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Pam,, Yes it's me  cindi,  the one you have been e-mailing.....I have been wondering about you since your trip to the ER  I just have the MSN address to......didn't know I had MSN free for a year  LOL    duhhhhhhhhh     love cin
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This is so hard, I know it is,,,,detoxed form opiates before  demerol etc..but I was in the rehab...not much good that did,,,,Librium 4 times a day at 25 mg..did nothing for the misery.....Thoms has alot of good info and so does wiz...heating pads, hot baths, jacuzzi's for the muscle aches and pain....walking, aerobic exercise is hard but Thomas swears by it....Someone else here said that MAGNESIUM and Zinc pretty much take away the nasty part of the withdrawals,,,you'll have to check the other posts for the doseage  and L tyrosine 4000 mg on an empty stomach with 200 mg.s of Vitamin B6 will help your brain replenish the endorphines and give you back some energy.....it is an amino acid that essential in our bodies....it comes in 500 mg tabs and the b6 potentiates the action of the tyrosine....then for the runs,  Thomas suggests the brand name immodium at the first hint of  bowel trouble.....and valium or soemthing to take to knock you out the first day or so...he'll pop on soon I hope and so will wiz.....I gotta give you credit  those last three emergency pills would have been gone if in my pocket....good luck,  hang in there  it can be done....people here are proof of that.....sorry I'm seem kinda brief but I have to get somewhere in like 20 min. and have spent my morning online AGAIN.       love to all    cin        PS  how'd I do Thomas  LOL     ?????:)
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I have had a few people send me mail saying that they were unable to get to the forum  i had trouble earlier but, being the computer genius I am  LOL   (NOT) I was able to get on...Thomas was able to read your post re: the emergency vics and drinking and he did express his concern to me about this drinking issue..I hope he does not mind me speaking for him I know he won't care...he did point out the if you do take those 3 vics and drink you may be giving your liver as he phrased it "quite a treat"  this can be harmful....he can elaborate more when he logs on...take care   love to all     TO CHAD FROM PHILLY    AKA hamster man...hey chad did I ever send you the hampster dance?    NA NA NA NA BOO BOO  I GOT ON   LOL     LOVE YOU GUYS
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here's the recope cindi mentioned. Good luck.

Vics are one of the most unpleasant "cold turkey detox experiences" going. Do you have, or can you get access to some benzodiazepines -
    drugs like Valium, Xanax, Librium, Klonopin? Without them, what can I say, it's going to be rough
    whatever you do. Perhaps you've got a friend or a relative with a few in the medicine cabinet - it
    doesn't sound like you've got a family doctor to turn to. Assuming you can get some Valium or one
    of the other benzos, plan for about 4 or 5 days on the stuff, starting the first couple days with
    enough to basically keep yourself "out of it," then gradually decreasing the benzos down to nothing.

    Of course, there's the ever-popular runs! Get the brand-name Imodium (immodium) and take two at a time at
    each hint of the runs. This symptom will pass after the first few days and is easily taken care of by
    the Imodium (immodium).

    Whether or not you can get any benzos, the only thing that really helps the leg cramps are hot baths
    or Jacuzzis - as many as you can stand. I've found that Enteric aspirin can help the aches and
    pains, as well, but not to any dramatic extent.

    Sometimes, if you can just get yourself to sleep to begin with, you can make it through the night.
    When I didn't have an rx for it, I found a double dose of benydryl helped put me out - it's also called
    sleep-eze and is over the counter. But don't expect miracles. It will either work or it won't. Don't
    increase the dose if it doesn't.

    Now for the interesting stuff:

    Go to the health food store and buy a bottle of 100 of the 500mg L-Tyrosine capsules along with a
    bottle of B6 capsules. Your Norco use has caused your brain to become depleted of several
    neurotransmitters responsible for your ability to function and feel good. Until these substances are
    restored, you'll feel like **** no matter what you do. They will come back by themselves, but it will
    take a long time. Taking the L-Tyrosine and B6 provides your brain with the raw materials it needs to
    rapidly create and replenish these vital brain substances. This is how you take it:

    Take 4000mg (four-thousand - eight 500mg caps) plus 200 mgs of B6 on an empty stomach,
    either at bedtime or in the morning. I never have an empty stomach at bedtime, so I have always
    taken this formula in the morning. Get up early if you can, so you can take the dose at least two
    hours before you have to leave for work. (Don't eat any breakfast for at least one hour after taking
    the dose.) I say two hours because that much L-Tyrosine can go through your system and cause
    some mild runs, and you certainly don't want to be in your car when that happens. It's caused the
    runs in me about 20% of the time I've used L-Tyrosine. Also, the L-Tyrosine, among other things,
    stimulates the production of norepinephrin (SP?) a neurotransmitter responsible for mental energy,
    alertness and ambition. So don't drink any coffee with this stuff!

    The good news is that many recovering narcotic addicts feel the difference after the first dose. You
    can suddenly think straight, your mood turns a bit more optimistic, and, in general, you start
    recovering your faculties, your energy, your enthusiasm and ambition for living life.

    At your state, I'd recommend taking the L-Tyrosine and B6 EVERY morning for the first four days,
    then every other morning until you don't feel you need it anymore.

    Beyond that, I'd highly recommend some kind of exercise, even if you feel like hell while you're
    doing it. It helps get rid of all that tension that builds while you're pacing the room wondering how
    you got yourself in this mess. Even just a swift walk will help.

    That's what I know about handling the physical side of this problem. The hardest part to deal with,
    however, is that thing in your head that made you go on the Norco to begin with. I cannot
    recommend strongly enough that you seek out and attend some AA or NA meetings. I always get a
    lot of guff from certain of my friends on the forum for this, but I recommend AA over NA. Why? I
    can only go by my own experience and tell you that I found a lot more sobriety in AA and a lot more
    people working stronger programs than in NA. Besides, almost everyone I know in AA is also a pill
    addict, anyway, so it is not as inappropriate as it sounds. I'm sure there are some fine NA meetings,
    I just didn't find any. Granted, I was incarcerated in a residential program and my choice of NA
    meetings were all in hardcore neighborhoods. Many of these meetings turned into sessions spent
    listening to homeless heroin addicts begging the other attendees for money, a place to stay,
    anything. That is definitely not what we go to these meetings for. I say, just seek out the meetings
    (and a sponsor) that for whatever reason helps give you strength to go one more day without the
    Norco and go with that.

    Just to keep myself honest here, I have been free of Norco or any opiate for about four months, so
    I still have a lot of challenges ahead of me. My biggest problem is that I liked the benzos so much I
    became addicted to them and now, every time I try to get off of them (or run out), I have a seizure.
    Nice, huh? But don't worry, if you use the benzos just to get off the Norco, you won't be running this
    risk.

    Just remember: You've done nothing of which to feel ashamed. You're a normal, decent human
    being who succumbed to a weakness we all, as members of the human race, share
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I forgot to add something ... don't expect alcohol to help at all. Most especially, don't take those three vics you're saving with alcohol to increase the effect. It will or could increase the effect on your liver, mixing alcohol with the tylenol in the vics. Very dangerous. Makes you feel good for 10 minutes than like **** for hours - that was my experience, anyway.
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Thx alot everyone for the info. I broke down early this morning and took one and a half of the vics---tryin my best to get hold of some valium but its scarce in my area right now.Thinking about calling my sister and begging her to go to the health food store for me cause honestly im just to sick to leave this room other that the horrid bathroom trips.Im talkin with glock on icq now and again and hes on day 7 and he helps me alot telling me how good he feels etc etc.Damn though --that seems sooo far away for me.Im definetly much sicker this time than the first time i went thru this,my wife too.Im so mad at the medical community right now.I cant believe how easy it is to get those pills!!Docs give em out like candy.Anyway Im going back to bed I guess, not too sleep of corse ,just to lie there and toss and turn and cramp.I just wanna let you guys know your just answering my posts helps more than you know...kinda makes me feel like Im not doing this alone ya know.BTW Im really worried about getting in this situation again..I swore last time id never take em again, but really i love hydrocodone.anyone here in the methodone program?Also my uncle who just stopped smoking with wellbutrin gave my wife his leftovers and she started takeing them 3 days ago when we began the self detox thing...she says she honestly thinks they r helpin ease her W/Ds.Is this all in her head?Im desperate so I started takeing them too last night.We told my parents we was going camping for a few days so they got our kids.Thomas thx alot for the recipie and thx again everyone else if I can get someone to help me get the stuff from the health food store ill start on it tonight. any idea what all this will cost I got like 100 bucks to my name till when the banks open and I doubt ill be able to drag myself to the bank either.BTW if anyone of you guys live in Louisville Ky and got a few valium laying round my icq # is 2711564. Im desperate so i go to great lenths $ to get them.Bye for now and thx again guys. P.S the reason I broke and took the one and a half was cause depression really set in...watchin Gladiator on TV late last night and at the end I cryed like a kid and that snowballed into alot more crying about lotta other stuff.Any idea how to help these overwelming depression spurts?
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I'm sorry that you are in withdrawals and I wish I could do something to end the suffering, believe me.  Tom is correct about not using alcohol.  It's a depressant and can cause some stomach problems which you don't need right now.  I used to resort to alcohol in the past and got into all kinds of trouble from forging prescriptions, hurting myself intentionally and going to the ER or just stealing pain meds from relatives.

One of the worst parts of WD's is you feel so alone and helpless.  Time passes sooo slowly and everything is just plain ugly! Your body and mind are going through a terrific ordeal right now, but you will get better.  And you are not alone!  Keep posting, we need you,  J.B.
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I watched Gladiator last night, too. Great movie! I know when I went through the WDs (at one point with Vicodin, I could only get a small script twice a week; my tolerance was so high that that only took care of half the week; the other half was spent going into WD; I did that every week for years) I only had the strength to watch movies. They helped psychologically, at least, because they took me away from the misery I was in.

The reason I'm posting now is this: two things you need to do right now: first, get 6 or 8 bucks and get some brand-name Imodium (immodium) at the grocery or drug store. Right now, you're dehydrating yourself by letting the runs continue. That alone will make you feel terrible. You've got to get the runs stopped and get fluids into yourself NOW. The Imodium (immodium) really works, too. It's not some worthless OTC drug. Take two or three right away and then every time you feel your bowels waking up, take two more immediately. That first dose will probably stop the runs in 15 minutes. So, get out of bed and drag yourself down to the store. Seriously, ending the runs and restoring your body fluids will make you feel tons better. If you called a doctor right now, that would be his first concern, I promise.

The other thing is this: don't lie in bed and cramp. Get into a hot tub or even hot shower if that's all you've got available.

The Tyrosine will be about 12 bucks, maybe less, and the B6 probably under ten.

But they can wait. Right now, get that Imodium (immodium) or you're seriously f'd, my friend. Good luck.

Thomas
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How are you doing? It's been kind of quiet on the forum? Where's Spook? What happened to Maximus? I need to ask you something, you always have the answers. I talked with my ex on Thursday, he was off and sick again. I had heard he was back on oxy's along with the methadone. What is this Dr. doing? He's now been on about 30 or so mg's. of methadone for about 3 1/2 months, is he going to have a hard time coming off it? Also, he's always sick, does the drugs lower his immunity? He owes me some money, and I told him I needed some, he said he was getting paid the next day, and would call and give me some. It's now Sunday afternoon, and I haven't heard a word. He's alot of things, but he's never let me down regarding the money issue. Am I being paranoid here? But I have had a feeling of impending doom, about him the last several days. I've always been keenly aware when somethings not right with him, and I feel something really bad has, or is about to. I just can't get what's going on here, he's never even made an effort over the past 3 months since he's been gone, to come and get his stuff. It's almost like he's just staying the weekend with his parents. It's like he just doesn't care! He's pretty mad at me right now, my knowing about the oxy's from the Dr. He thinks I'm being nosey, but honest to God, I didn't ask, the nurse just volunteered  it. He is always mad at me, acts like he hates me. Why doesn't he just pay me back, believe me he has the money, and been done with it, no more contact needed. I told him I would keep his dog, since he can't care for it. He's not on any antidepressents, he doesn't believe in them. Can he be depressed? I just don't understand, how someone so healthy and in great shape just 3 years ago, can become sick eveyday, either a headach, flu, cold. That's how he got started on the oxy's in the first place, was complaining of headachs. I have that feeling he'll never get better, and that he might die. Do some addicts never get over it, and do some never want to get better. I'm just afraid, that the next time I see him, it will be at his funeral. I have really, really bad vibes today. Thank You Thomas......Love Susan
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Hi lea,

refresh my memory about your ex ... He's on the methadone for addiction and getting oxy from another doctor for headaches? Does the doctor prescribing the oxy know about the methadone? All I can say about him now based on what you say is that he's found a new love, namely oxycodone. If he's on a lot of it or getting it from multiple doctors he could be in a half-dreamworld all the time, one that takes him away from his responsibilities, like wife and family, etc. He may resent you now because you remind him of all the responsibilities and pressures this oxy dreamworld relieves him of. He's crawled back into the womb where it's nice a warm and peaceful, nobody demanding anything of him ... and then here you come reminding him of his life. I'm playing amateur psychologist now, but what I say is based on my own experience with prescription narcotics. There was a time I was getting Vics and demerol injections almost every day and I remember resenting anybody who intruded on this warm, dreamy fantasy life I was living most of the time. The flu symptoms could have to do with addiction, but it sounds like he's getting all the drugs he needs - unless he's on something stronger and isn't telling anyone. Secrecy is a hallmark of addiction, among other things. I have to go meet someone right now or I'd write more. I'll be back in about three hours if you want to talk some more.

Peace

Thomas
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Thanks. Two years ago a friend gave him oxy's for recreational use. I have fibromyalgia and other stuff. I think Dr.s created the Fibro name, for when they can't figure out what you have. I have always had narcotics. I don't particulary like them. Now I take the patch. Anyway he would take my meds when he could. Then he started going to my Dr. and got oxy's and perc's. This was over 2 years ago.  As time when by he got more and more addicted, became sick with withdrawals all the time, mean verbally abusive. One year ago he went into the hospital for detox, aweek later came out. Meetings 2 times aweek a great sponser, family support. Bingo! 3 weeks later, he's back using, abusing, lying anything he could get away with. He had already missed 3 months of work last year. He stayed in another room, distant, wouldn't talk, sleep all the time. We hadn't kissed, talked or had sex in over a year at that point. He never told his Dr. about his addiction. In Dec. he left, came back aweek later, getting sick again, slowly. He was nice for about amonth said he wanted to get better, work it out. Missed another month of work in Feb.(really close to being fired) Got Methadone from the Dr. told him he needed help getting off the oxy's. Became mean again. Left mid March, (38 yrs old, 4 kids) moved in with his mom and dad. Won't talk to me, nothing. It's over,I'm sad but Ok. My kids'can't stand him, because of his verbal abuse. The other day, I find out he's using both oxy's and methadone. Will not do a program, meetings, sponser, nothing. He says he can do it on his own. I spent almost 6 years with him(not married, my kids are not his) I was almost finacially ruined because of him, he will not help with money. I paid his way, his child support for 4 months. I gave him a car so he could go to work. This man has some money. But he has never had anything or anyone in his life before me. His exwife hates him, all his ex's dislike him, his children don't want anything to do with him. Everyone says he's a loser. Now it looks as if he will never have anything. I think I need to let go....Thanks for your help....Love Susan
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There is no way for me to top anything these wonderful people have told you.  I just noticed something in your post that I can totally relate too.  You said that your wife can sleep through withdrawals w/ no problem.  I had to smile, because my husband is the same way(different circumstances), and he can sleep through a world war, or hurricane.......LOL  I can recall agonizing over a family crisis or something........and he sleeps through it like a baby.  LOL One thing I can relate to is how you must feel.  Very alone........sitting there going through this terrible ordeal...while your wife is snoozing away. LOL  Well, you come to the right place....there will always be someone here to help you, or answer your post. JB, Tom, Wizard, Cindi.....all great sources of support.  My situation is a little different, but they've been my lifeline....and many others too.  Hang in there......these people are priceless....
God Bless you,
Angelica
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it's a sad but intelligent conclusion you have come to. So he has multiple ex wives, too. Sounds like he's used to going through women. I bet he was pissed when you went on the fentenyl patch, giving him no way of stealing your medication. And now he's persuaded your doctor to give him BOTH methadone and oxycodone? Speaking as a recovering rx narcotics addict, I think he must be having a high high from all that stuff. After reading endless posts about oxy on this forum, about 9 months ago I just had to see what the whole thing was about and got some oxycontin from my doctor. I wasn't 3 pills into the script when I started schewing them up for effect. Half way through the bottle, I had them pulverized and I was doing oxy lines like they were coke. I know it relieves a lot of pain, and I think any pain patient that wants it should get it, but if you're just after a high, oxy's sublime. I'm afraid your ex-boyfriend is totally into himself and his high right now. Thank god you didn't marry him! I'm afraid he isn't anywhere near hitting bottom. But rest assured he will.

If the pattern holds, he'll lose his job, milk disability as far as he can, and when your doctor cuts him off and he has no medical insurance to pay for more doctors, he'll resort to illegal means to obtain the stuff and eventually get popped. I hope he turns it around without having to go through the whole scenario, but it's a familiar story you're telling. He's not going to be a suitable mate for anyone for a long time, if ever.

I hope you find someone who appreciates what he's getting. Everyone willing to give love certainly should receive it. E-mail me anytime you want to talk at:

***@****

Thomas
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<FONT COLOR="#FFF0F5">Well had to stop by and let ya all know i'm better.
I been feeling good for 3 days now.
I can sleep and the sky is blue again.hehe!
We all need to help JAMZE out poor guy is hurting!8-(
I feel so sorry for this guy!!!!
I'll tell ya narcotic are realy bad i can't beleave it grabed ahold of me like it did .
Like i said before i've done mostly every thing when it comes to drugs and never had anything make me feel like i was when i came off lorocets the **** is evil!
I thank each and everyone that had some kind of input on the withdrawing thing with me you will never beleave how much help you folks realy where.
And as far as depression well i'm so happy to be better been 3 days of happyness i don't think i'll have depression and if i do so be it. NO MORE PAINKILLERS FOR ME!
Well i got to go i'll stop by here and there and see how you guys are doing.{i'll read the post everyday i'm sure}
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<b><FONT COLOR="#8B0000">PEACE!</FONT></b>
                                 <b><FONT COLOR="#483D8B">G
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<FONT COLOR="#8B0000">Soory about last post chose a bad color for the font if ya look real hard ya might beable to read it. or highlite it.hehe so hear go's again.</FONT>
<b><FONT COLOR="#006400">Well had to stop by and let ya all know i'm better.
I been feeling good for 3 days now.
I can sleep and the sky is blue again.hehe!
We all need to help JAMZE out poor guy is hurting!8-(
I feel so sorry for this guy!!!!
I'll tell ya narcotic are realy bad i can't beleave it grabed ahold of me like it did .
Like i said before i've done mostly every thing when it comes to drugs and never had anything make me feel like i was when i came off lorocets the **** is evil!
I thank each and everyone that had some kind of input on the withdrawing thing with me you will never beleave how much help you folks realy where.
And as far as depression well i'm so happy to be better been 3 days of happyness i don't think i'll have depression and if i do so be it. NO MORE PAINKILLERS FOR ME!
Well i got to go i'll stop by here and there and see how you guys are doing.{i'll read the post everyday i'm sure}</FONT></b>
<FONT COLOR="#9400D3">PEACE!</FONT>
                     G
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I hate to be realistic here but I wish I had a dollar for every time I said "no more painkillers!".  I haven't been visiting here as often as I used to and don't fully know your story, admitedly. I just wanted to point out to you that fear and willpower alone will not keep you away from this "demon". Please don't downplay the depression aspect either. When all else has failed, the Demon will use that most effectively to get you back on his side of the court.

This is some friendly advice from someone who has been there and done that for many years. I can only pray that you will be one of the "lucky ones" who can get off and stay off of narcotics forever! As for me...it's a daily battle. When times get rough(and they will), I come here and read some posts in order to get refocused on what I'm all about and where I've come from.  Best of luck to you!  J.B.
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I do so know what you mean.  Lortabs, lorcets, hydrocodone, they're all the same and they're the worst!! The psychiatrist in the hospital said, it was the hardest drug to get off of.  He called it the "Hollywood Drug" and that those in Hollywood could afford to have what's called, "rapid detox"; of course, I cannnot afford that procedure so I'm left with the taper process and it's hell.  Some days are OK, but most days, I have a headache, at least and it has flared up my fibromyalgia conditions again.  I will never, never, pick this drug up again.  They said methadone is easier to get off of than this stuff.  I couldn't believe it!  That's actually what they were trying to do was switch me to a different opiate based drug and bring me down faster.  BUT, insurance didn't approve it nor the hospital stay I had that they said they would cover so now, I'm stuck with a huge bill.  BUT, I am going to fight it.  I followed all procedures.

Anyway, I just wanted to say congratulations and isn't the blue sky great?!

white dove
Pam
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Hello Glock I'am truly glad to hear your doing so well with your withdrawal. I have to agree One hundredred persent with J.B.'s accurate observation! If your stated problems are all that accure,Please concider yourself in a very, very small minority and thank God in the process! This incidious drug rarelly leaves anyone so easily. I have been TWO months clean and like J.B. have to fight every day to stay clean. Depression, anger, cynicism, all are part of my day's,Sleeplesness at night; It truly suck's.Please be aware that there is a post accute withdrawal symptom wear the addict feel a complete euphoria that last's frome several hours to a day or two, the it's down from there. Please don't take this the wrong way! I sincerlly hope you are out of the woods. If so., Remember to remember and never pick it up again, you may not be so fortunate next time. Bless you and all strugling with this desiese. Shane
';
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I agree with what you said, wholeheartedly about this drug!!  It's the worst.  I'm not sure I understand what you said about the euphoria afterwards.  Could you explain?  The sleepness nights, being worn out, all the withdrawal symtoms (symptoms), etc., I understand.

Fill me in.

whitedove
Pam
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Hello Pam. Yes when I was in rehab they discussed a variety of post accute withdrawal symptoms. This Euphoric state is one of them, and one I've experianced twice after about one week clean of hydrocodone. It is just that, an extreme feeling of euphoria almost like when you were high on pills. IT vary's for individuals of course but mine lasted for about one day. Then the Reality set in. THe long and hard road staying off these F***ing pills. Getting clean is the easey part. Staying clean is tough. Hope this helps you Pam. I'd be interested to know if anyone else heard of this! Thanks   Shane
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I read your question(a good one)about the post euphoria syndrome that many of us have experienced. It's simply a "pink cloud" frame of mind that we experience after all of the physical withdrawals have subsided. We get to feeling better and may take a bath and clean up our acts enough to feel that "all is over". I've felt a renewed sense of porpose and energy and will actually take measures to make myself presentable again to the other 95% of society. In short, the body awakens after a deep sleep and wants to live again! I have survived this terrific ordeal...on with a wonderful life! I'm whole again!

Nope...that feeling lasts but a short time and soon we are back at our previous ways again...our minds have been "imprinted" and will likely never be whole again. We relapse!

That's the reality of what we are by the time we find this forum. Sadly, our battle will never end. We are but human!  J.B.
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I also know about the euphoria after the first few days of being clean. It is nice and DOES give you a false sense of it's finally over! Well,it does go away and we are what we are as JB said by the time we reach the forum our minds are imprinted. BUT, I don't believe we are totally destined to fail! Getting off was the easy part, staying off is the NEVER ending battle. I for one will NOT stop fighting the "Dragon". To me the withdrawels and the forum are a reminder of how dark it was. I now see LIGHT most of the time. The euphoria still comes back to an extent if I will it. It's not the same as the first high, never will be. But it is always better then the LAST WITHDRAWAL. For me, at least for now that in itself is good enough. We are forever changed by the "Dragon" it never goes away completely. But we CAN make ourselves it's master and not let it be the other way around. I choose to keep it at bay and with God's good graces and my prayers I hope to do just that. For I will NOT despair again. If I do the "Dragon" wins. I'm a sore loser when it comes to MY life. People there can be other euphorias if we let them into our hearts. Find the light, see the light and reach for it. Most of us including myself have relapsed before. Some of us many, many times, but I will never, ever give up trying to stay clean. The alternatives SUCK to much! i want to thank God and all the angels here on the forum who help me in my low points. You are always here to pick me up when I stumble. I do apologize for such a long post but My time will be limited on the on forum so I need to get as much in as I can when I have the chance. Thomas, I hope all is well for you as I know you have had a hill to climb. As always ALL of you are in my prayers. One final note: It isn't always the Land of Oz with the rainbows, but I try to stay there as often as I can in my heart :-) God Bless you all,
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard
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Hello again guys
well I folded I decided to go to my family doc and c if he could gimme somthing to ease these Wds a bit....doc wants to wean me off em slow...I gotta admit he didnt have to twist my arm guys I was really in alota pain...so the docs starting me at 100 lorcets a week and gunna reduce me 10% each week..I hate these damn pills so much right now just lookin at the damn bottle is makeing me nausious....doc swears hes done this for people alot and says its best and easist way to get rid of em...I had to do somthing I gotta get back to work runnin outa sick days...why do I feel like such a failure?...Glock bro dude you should thank god every time you smile man that he gave u the strenth to suffer thru that like u did till u came all the way out the other side..Please dont make the same mistake I did dude...this is my 2nd time detoxin off this ****...and I to swore i was done..all it takes is one little script from a dentist and bam you could be back in the damn rat race...well at least i got a doc helpin me now and mabye with the help of the doctor the posts from u guys and the mercy of god I WILL BEAT THESE DAMN PILLS!!

                                       jamze
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So we decided to take a bit of the hair of the dog that bit us? All I can say is that I hope it works out for you!

Wizard has the right idea about addiction. When all else falls by the wayside, try getting in touch with your spiritual side. Keep seeking and be ever strong! J.B.
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don't blame you, dude. I've withdrawn from Vics literally a couple hundred times (I'm slow to catch on, what can I say?). IF YOU STICK TO IT, your doc's technique sounds great. Thank your lucky stars you have an understanding doc that apparently trusts you. Whatever you do, don't abuse that trust. Best of luck to you. Be strong!

Thomas
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glad to hear you're alive, my friend. Just saying hi ... give my best to Marty.

Thomas
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Hello again Everyone.
Been doing ALOT of thinking lately and talking with a few friends, and Ive come to realize that just because I didnt quit the hydrocodone cold turkey,all on my own,in full blown W/D doesnt mean Im a failure.I think that for me anyway I just cant do it like that.I honestlt think that the tapering idea that the Doc has me doing may be the beginning of a good stratagy to win this war.The first time I quit yes I did do it cold turkey in bed full blown W/D and I figured well Ill do the exact same thing this time and I wont be addicted anymore.Certain things that have been said on these post have made me realize that even though I wasent takeing the pills for those 6 months I was still addicted or I wouldent be back in this mess all over again.Last week when I tryed the cold turkey thing again it was like I panicked and said O.K ENOUGH!!!! Im stopping NOW!!!! and I guess I was blinded by the sheer pain and destruction that the pills are haveing on my life and figured that as soon as I got detoxed and wasent currently takeing pills anymore that everything would be perfect.Seeing the struggles that you guys are haveing just staying clean even after detox has made me realize that I cant just end it that fast..some people may be able to just detox and BAM never think about them again,not me, I get sick to my stomach saying this but I really do love the way those pills make me feel(I am actually haveing dreams about finding full bottles of hydrocodone,and about owning my own vault full of so many pills I could swim in them) and I think that even after Im detoxed Im still gonna love it, miss it, want it,and crave it. I dont have a problem so far with the tapering thing (but then again its only the 2nd day) but Ive never been one to eat my supply up real fast if I had 20 pills sure Id get alot higher eating 10 at once but I am always too scared to not have any for the next morning,so Id take 3 then get to the first stage of WD and take 3 more etc etc.And it seems as long as I have SOME pills I can make myself WD a little but soon as I run out I panick and freak out scared I wont be able to find more before i get sick. Since I did that cold turkey thing and went thru those 3 days of hell I lowered my tolerance some in the process and dont need 20 pills a day now to keep from getting sick I can get by on around 9 and my wife can get by on 3 or 4 so mabye the 100 a week supply that the Doc has got me starting out with can help wean both me and my wife.I got a question for you guys ?Can I in my position join AA meeting even though Im still using the pills?or do I gotta wait till Im clean?I dont think Im gonna be able to just get clean and then go back to my normal life I had before I ever started takeing the pills,I know I gotta get into some kinda program or meetings or something, its just so humiliating and embarrassing.they outa have ONLINE NA meetings hehe will post later if u guys dont mid hearing my thoughts


jamze
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I won't make a blanket statement about AA or NA as a whole but around here at least, the only requirement to belong is the "desire to quit using". I've seen folks show up for meetings higher than a kite(myself included)and not be run off unless they were doing something threatening to the others. As we say, "but for the grace of God, there go I". I'd say that the worst thing that you could do at this point is not at least try a few meetings and meet some of these recovering addicts.

I remember my first meeting while I was still in the rehab center! I was so scared,nervous,sweaty and nauseated that I wanted to crawl under the table. It was devastating to introduce myself and admit that I was an alcohlic and drug addict. I burst into some God awful sobs and just collapsed. That's when my group put their arms around me and welcomed me home. The sheer power of that group's love changed my life forever!  J.B.
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Yep, I'm still alive and some days even kicking! I've been feeling pretty good lately except for a little depression. I'm working on it anyway. Marty is fine and pretty intense these days...we are having a major family reunion here at the farm during July 4th. Lots of work to do to get ready! Give Bobbie my love!  J.B.
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Keep up the wonderful work, and thank you for those encourging words in your post (june 4)!
You're are right, it sucks here, and you DON'T want to come back to this side!
I thought I could just about see the light last week, and i was reaching for it, but slipped, i don't see it anymore.  I'm going to try this taper off method, but it's so so very hard, especially while living with a very unhappy addict!  I'm anxious to see what the strength of my family will do for me next week.  I'm gonna try!!!  Then i can come back and try to help my husband help himself before he dies from this thing!!!!
Prayers for you, i know you can stay strong!
Lv Jenny
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I wish you good luck with your tapering. And please don't ever think of yourself as a "failure" -- I've spent too much time doing that myself (and still do). Anyway, I wanted to say I can relate to those dreams you're having. With me it's Valium. I'm always scared I'm going to run short before my next Rx (panic attacks)...and I'll dream I find pills in drawers, bags, cabinets, wherever...but in these dreams I just take one or two, just enough to get by, not to go overboard (I guess even in my dreams I'm nervous!) Well, hang in there, and keep posting. I have never withdrawn from opiates, but as you've read, lots of folks here have, and so you know it can be done.
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I've had those dreams, too about my drug of choice. They are getting less and less frequent though. What is the subliminal mind trying to tell us?....Maybe we still have to be on guard?
The funny thing is that I've never had a dream about alcohol, yet have had many dreams about car accidents. Go figure! J.B.

P.S. Is it ever going to stop raining here in the midwest and get warm and sunny again?

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....after a 2 month dry spell, we've been getting rain for 3 days now.  I will need a boat just to leave my driveway.  I guess we asked for it, and we got it.  LOL  I have to admit, I like these rainy days.  It seems to be very calming, and peaceful. LOL  Hope your well, these days.
LOVE,
Angelica
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I put the bible under my pillow the other night, and kissed it and prayed to god for help.
That night, i had a weird dream.  I dreamed i was driving hit a car on my way back to my best friend's house.  Someone i grew up with, but we live 250 miles from eachother now, but talk a lot.
Anyway, i went to my friend's house, and the cops were chasing me.  My friend ended up talking me to a  rehab, and i was concerned about my husband because i had 'everything' with me.  I also didn't want my parents to find out (geez i'm 38-years old, listen to me!)  But anyway, it was a good rehab program, and i woke up before i started, but felt a sense of peace while there.  I'm wondering if god was trying to tell me to go to detox?
BTW, my friend has a husband who is an addict and alcoholic, so she is all too familiar with addictions.  And, her first husband was an alcoholic, and ended up killing himself a long time ago.  She doesn't know i'm using again, and i don't want to tell her.
Just thought i'd share my dream.
Lv Jenny
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I have to admit I love these rainy days too, Anjelica. There's nothing so soothing as lying in bed, listening to the rain on the roof. Even storms are OK -- I'm not afraid of bad weather like I once was.
jennyfla, I can't pretend to analyze dreams, but to me your dream strongly shows your strength, determination, and willingness to commit to recovery.It's like the detox/rehab is a safe haven for you. I think that's a great sign. And by all means, keep that Bible handy!
J.B. -- yeah, I can't even "let myself go," even in my dreams. But as for weather, I'm happy any day there's no snow...:)
Reading posts by all of you on various threads has been tremendously helpful to me.
Milo
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Hey guys.... I had too much to do to really get on a read all the posts but hubby is snoring and so are the kids....Now  Listen to old wordly cindi    (see post from angelica below  LOL) NOBODY HERE IS A FAILURE>>>My God...being clean is sucha struggle...getting clean is just as hard but the real work begins after detox..I see nothing but determination in the both of you...and that is where it starts..the willingness...to get clean...so you have some failed attempts....big flippin deal..I read in my NA book that there are some people that truly are not able to stay clean....Jesus, there are people that have been trying to stay clean for 30 years...and maybe one day they will,  or maybe they won't but they try...their intentions are good...just because a diabetic takes his insulin and watches everything they eat,,,does not mean their blood sugar won't go up or down,..but they try to maintain it...nothing is in stone..they refer to the word practice in my books and in life in general....someday,, it will happen...we, you all of us will be ok,,just for today.....hang in there....Jenny do you have acces to a computer in florida..I know wiz went fishing  took his laptop and was going to try and look for a phone hookup   LOL   now,, that's an addict   LOL   Hi Wiz.....love ya..  Lov to all      cin
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Thank you Cindi.
Yup, i live in florida, but will be going to New Jersey for the week.  My parents have a computer, and i'm sure i will make my way into checking up on all of you!  lol!
I'm gonna give it a try this coming week, wish me luck!
Lv Jenny
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DUUHHHHHHHHH  God, I hat it when i sound so dumb..LOL  I meant to ask you if you had a computer in Jersey..i think you may have known what i meant..  LOL..love ya   cin
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Thanks Hon!
I'm sitting here trying to figure myself out (not an easy chore).  I'm trying to find out when it was that i 'crossed-over' to the other side.  I use to be able to just play around with these suckers, but they took hold of me while my back was turned.  My husband kept warning me to watch out!
The weird thing about it is the more i think about it and the more i stress and have anxiety about it, the worse it is.
I've kind of got my mind all twisted up and i no longer have a grip on this thing anymore, and that scares the living **** out of me!!!!  I've always prided myself on thinking that, yeah, i have a grip on this thing, and now it's got a grip on me!  I hope this all makes sense.  I used to always keep my quantities way down so i could be in control.  I never ever used while at work 9-5, and never ever while up north visiting family.  All of the sudden, it became necessary to take a little something around 3ish or else i didn't think i could make it.  This happened after i dislocated my finger back in dec.  Then it moved up to 1, now it can hit as easy as 8 - 11 am.  So far, this morning, i've taken 2000 mg of l-tyrosine, and i don't have any w/d yet.  Don't know if my body is running alittle late today, or if it is the amino acid, but i do have to say that they make me feel weird.  I don't like it at all, but if they are the reason that the w/d are staying away, then ok, i'm game for a short while.  i wish i had thought about doing this earlier in the week (i could kick myself), that way i wouldn't be so stressed out going up north tomorrow morning in this condition.  I still have so much to do today, and i hate to have to do everything in this spacey, out of this world kind of head trip.
Thanks for listening sweetie.  Talk to you soon.
Lv Jenny
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we have go to talk asap        have a good trip and as angelica says  chin up   Love you  cin   ps  travel safely hon....
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Hey Cindi girl!
Well i screwed up a bit, i ended taking a little something.  I was trying to pack and get my stuff done, but my legs felt like that weighed 100 lbs a piece.  It was unbearable and i didn't have the creepy-crawlies, as i call them, but i broke down anyway.  I think i can do this while i gone, in fact, i know i can.  I'll let you know how i did once i return.  I may get on while at my parents', but i don't want anyone to see what i'm up too, so it depends on the privacy-level.
I hope you are doing well.  Free free to email me, i'll check that during the week.
Thanks hon!
Stay strong and healthy girl!
Lv Jenny
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Wow, I really can't believe how many of you are tapering like me.  It's not easy, is it?   It also sounds like we're trying it about the same way.  I heard one of you say 10% and mine is .5 every 3 days.  I get very discouraged, but I have gone from 14 tablets to 6 now.  However, as I mentioned in a previous message, it feels like cold turkey now.  I wonder why.  I've tapered, have the klonipin (klonopin), xanax, etc.  AND, I've added all the vitamin supplements possible, along with water and trying to eat right.

Working is hard and practically impossible.  Going in for medical detox was not an option for those of you who read my previous post.  I have been accepted for outpt. therapy, but I had it 3 years ago, still go to AA and NA meetings now, etc. so I don't know ........

Mood swings suck!!  I have my husband that has been giving me my meds.  It didn't work with just HIM giving them to me, so my psychiatrist keeps the bottle, puts 2 days worth in an envelope and my husband picks them up every other day.  This way, the pressure is less on my husband and if he gives in to my "begging" for more, I run out and have to wait until the Dr. gives us more.  Tapering is just plain hard, no matter how you go about it.

AND, yes go to meetings, don't stop!!  It is "the desire to stop using, drinking, etc."  That's absolutely all it is.  AND, everyone here certainly has that desire.  A sponsor is helpful too because your family can't be objective.  I've learned that through many trials, errors and arguments.

I'm at the Lake of the Ozarks, trying to relax, but it hasn't made a difference really.  The symptoms still exist.  I just wish I could regulate the sleeping.  Sleep is so important and I just can't get it right, especially now that I'm down this low in the quantity I'm taking.

Anyone have anymore suggestions or thoughts?  AND, why is it so hard now when I've been tapering?  That's my biggest question.

whitedove
Pam
***@****
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Wow, you are still feeling that bad?  from what I understand of that post re: the magnesium and zinc...I understood that ionly works if you start taking them a week before you start detox...build yourself up and then start the detox....at least that's what I got out of reading it....I know that tapering is hard but I also know that we can't get off this stuff with no discomfort...there will always be some degree of the pain in the ass withdrawals....now that you are down to 6 a day,,you have to allow your body to adjust to that doseage...that may take a few days...then it will adjust and you'll feel better...then when you are down to 3, probably the same thing.  what we have done to ourselves as far as all the opiates..is unreal...now we have to adjust to not taking the usual dose...does this make sense? like having a baby,,,we carry it around for 9 months..in the beginning our bodies have to adjust to the little thing that it is not used to having,,then we deliver and we have to adjust again..so our hormones go whacky again.. what we have done in the process of using we can't undo overnight..it taks time, patience and discomfort   good luck and if you need me  you know how to get me?    love to all       cin
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Cindi:

You are always there and so helpful everytime I pull up this forum.  THANK YOU!!

I have to work today for the first time in 2 weeks and I feel like, you know what!!!  I pray to make it through the day.

A lot more has happened, but I don't have time to fill you in right now since I must shower and attempt to work.

Bottom line - I'm at 5 pills today along with 4 xanax and 4 klonopin but, I'm still having an extremely difficult time.  I talked with a lady on a help line that said, she thought I was having more trouble with the xanax, given that my husband has control of it too and I had "upped" it when I started tapering on the Lortab.  What do you think about that?  Does it stand further research, in your opinion?  I know you have nursing background and I'd like to draw on it.  I liked your previous analogy about equating this to "having a baby" and the changes at various times.

Can't wait to hear back from you.

Fondly,

whitedove
Pam
***@**** (I misplaced your new email)
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There's one thing I'd like to suggest. Since Klonopin & Xanax are in the same class of drugs & do pretty much the same thing (though I understand Xanax works faster), you might consider taking one or the other, not both. Adding one benzo to another doesn't increase effectiveness (at least it didn't for me). If your supply is limited, this would also be a good way to save some meds in case of need later. Just a thought -- with all best wishes -- Milo
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Good idea!!  Sometimes, in our fogs, we don't think of these simple things.  THANKS!!

I saw that xanax was listed at the top of the forum page, but I'm getting ready for work (trying) so, I don't have time to read it now.

It is an interesting thought that I'm having more trouble now from the xanax than the Lortab. Don't you think?

whitedove
Pam
***@**** - feel free to write here
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.....Thanks for adding some color to our world.  Pretty creative , hummmm???
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I'm the same way! I don't have a problem with hydro, but benzos -- well, that's another matter. You may want to ask your doctor to switch you from Xanax to Valium, as I understand Xaxax is the most difficult benzo to discontinue.
All best -- Milo
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In 2002 i ended up with a condition called ptc which is fluid that builds up on my brain.. The doctors would always try giving me narcotics  and i would always say no to them but about 5 years ago i gave in Them people were driving me crazy. They told me to lose weight (20) pounds and i would not need the shunts anymore well when i started i weighed 280lb and now i weigh 160 and my problems are just getting worse.I just had my 32 surgery to fix the shunt in my brain and it never seem to be going anywhere. The only thing i have done is got myself where i feel as if i have to have pain meds,,,but i really do still have pain from the ptc everyday so what do i do?
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