Lets keep the open floor

[OxyDout]

I think the open question idea is a good one, but if someone else thinks different then I will stop, but anyway I did something last night that I think can definitely help anyone keep their mind off of drugs.  My girlfriend bought me rollerblades last night and we went out rollerblading around 9:30pm last night.  It was incredible, it was one of those things that I forgot was so much fun.  We had the summer night, cool air, and we were flying up and down the streets...... And the thing that was even better was that I was sharing it with the girl I love. SHE bought something that FINALLY made me realize I WANT TO BE SOBER!!! It was the most incredible feeling, I WAS FREE!!!! Well, that is my two cents.  I haven't been doing so well with the tapering, I found the "stash" oh boy, I have found out that the only way i can do this is to go through the hell, but don't get me wrong, I didn't eat like 15 vic's in a day, I just haven't been sticking to the taper as wel as I should be.  

Well, I hope all is well, and please post often today.  

GROOVY WHERE ARE YOU!!!! I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOU, OH, I BOUGHT MY ROLLERBLADES AT THE LIBERTY TREE MALL!!

[OxyDout]

what post were you referring to? with a comment like that coming from you, THATS A HUGE COMPLIMENT, but I want to make sure i know which post it is.................

[ladysopranoinjersey]

GWH - Congratulations in finding an activity other than popping pills!  Out of everyone who posts on this board, I can definitely relate to you the most.  Getting exercise is probably the best thing we can do to get our minds off of taking drugs, besides it releases endorphins, our bodies natural chemical that makes us feel good.   Lately, I havent been doing so well, back to my tylenol 3 usage.  However, I am starting to see a therapist on a regular basis who hopefully can rid me of my bad habits.  Keep posting GWH, and keep up the rollerblading!

[jeepster]

hey thats a funny story but i sure belive it.Glad to hear youve been clean for 46 days.Keep up the excellent work.yea i mean work, sometimes it hard . Tomorro i wont be around because im going to cedar point. Its the first time not going stoned in a long time. Im looking foward to it as i can put my attention on my boy instead of my former drug of choice controlling my mind.Take care Marty

[OxyDout]

thanks for the post, I appreciate it, and I will definitely keep rollerblading!! hey, don't be so hard on yourself, T3 is by far the weakest of any opiates, well maybe not the weakest, but close to it, just start tapering down, you can do it, trust me. I hope all is going well, its hot as hell here in Boston.

[acowgirl]

I have been taking 20mg oxy-contin 2-3 x a day for two years. Recently I have been having alot of chest pain and feeling short of breath.  I went to the dr. the first time this happened. I just wondered if my medicine is causing this.  I have been very tired lately and crying for no reason.  I found this site because I am ready to quit the med. I am sure I will go thru wd and have already found so much helpful advice.  I have one more question...I recently applied for a new insurance policy, my family was excepted I was declined. Could oxy-contin be the reason they denied me? You guys are doing it...I am glad I found you.

[dlm]

Well, here goes day 3 of being vicodin free.  Started out feeling like ****......used to waking up and popping a few pills to get my day started.  Now they've got me on clonodine and valium, which I refuse to take anymore!!  I hate the way it makes me feel, and I've got kids to take care of.  I'm wondering if after the physical withdrawals are over, what about the mental??  Do anti-depressants do any good, because I feel soooo depressed I can hardly stand myself.  Moving from one room to another is a major chore.  Any suggestions??  Thank you all!

[OxyDout]

I don't know about the insurance, but I'm inclined to think that, that would be illegal to decline you because of oxycontin. AS far as the chest pains, did it happen when you took the meds, if it did, it might be because any opiate strains the respitory system. If someone was to OD on oxy it is because of respitory failure, so be careful, although your not taking a high dose so don't worry too much, I would go for a full physical so you could find your answer and put your mind at ease. But hey, your in the right place, lets do it together, I have hit rock bottom and I'm still floating there, but I'm in high hopes that I'm on the rise, and I absolutely cannot, willnot take no for an answer. You can DO THIS, ITS DOABLE!!!

excuse my language, but i'm so ******* sick of this ****.  I'm portrayed by friends, family, and co-workers as such a nice guy, hard working, good ethics etc..... but its all bullshit, I know that deep down below the drug addict that all the above is true, but i'm losing it, i really am, i can't handle it anymore. I'm sorry for having to post this stuff, but i have all this hate anger and aggression building up and i can't put a cap on it, i feel like i'm losing it, i'm worthless, i don't even deserve anything in life, i really don't, why have i done this to myself. there isn't a way out, atleast i don't see it, please help me guys.

[OxyDout]

the second half of that post was to everyone not to "acowgirl"

[hellbent]

I was on Oc's for 4 years, and I found that any number of physical ailments can be attribted to them. I had my left leg falling asleep (thought I had Multiple Sclerosis), skin problems, a little benign growth on my head, and some others. Everything has gone away after quitting.

Anyone who takes narcotics is familiar with constipation, and weight gain. What is often unknown is how this symptom can ravage your system. Your digestive system slows to a crawl, and minerals and vitamins are not processed. The list of disease and other physical problems that can result are myriad.

Another symptom of opiate usage is respiratory and central nervous system depression. So, shortness of breath is definitely a possiblilty, though I don't remember having it.

Try to drink lots of prune and grape juice, and do heavy impact excercise whenever you can. The first couple years, I played ultimate frisbee and basketball, and was far more "regular". Sports are, for me, much better than running a treadmill, as it gets the competitive juices flowing and you forget that you are forcing yourself to excercise. Problem is, as time goes by, and you do more opiate, you almost invariably become less active.

I've only been clean for 46 days, but I have lost 35 pounds, and people are telling me I look 5 years younger. Give thought to quitting if you don't absolutely need OC's for pain.

[OxyDout]

what do you attribute the weight gain to?? you think oc's will make you gain weight???? I have never heard of that.  I'm curious as to what the thinking behind that is.

[mrmichael67]

Opiates depress the respiratory system in high dosages.  I would say, definitely, that you are quite used to the drug by now and you don't experience any respiratory depression.  As far as straining the respiratory system, they do not.  The chest pain is most likely a coincidence.  As far as your insurance, are you prescribed these meds?  If you are, insurance can't deny you.  They are a legal medication.  And, they don't test to see what level of the drug is in your system, just whether it is there or not.  Did you tell them you are taking it when you were tested?  Of course, you would have to show them the script, or the bottle with your name on it.

[acowgirl]

gwh-I know I don't take much compared...but addiction is addiction and we all feel that way about ourselves at some time or another. I am a mom, a wife, and I take care of of elder relatives...I feel like there is no one to take care of me.  My husband tries to be supportive but his life is so much different than mine he really can't relate.  I have smoked pot, popped pills at will, and now I take these meds because I have had 2 unsuccesfull neck surgeries where they fused titanium to my spine.  I love exercise!!!but can't walk on my expensive!!tredmill cause of the pain that follows 3-4 days later...I want another child but am so afraid that I can't take care of one but my clocks ticking and believe me that clock is real.  I want to be normal, to feel normal to live without the aches and pains that I have daily, I want to be the one success story that makes the front page.  READ THE REMARKABLE JOURNEY OF A YOUNG WOMANS QUEST FOR A PAIN FREE DRUG FREE LIFE:  or DOCTOR COMES TO THE RESCUE WITH NEW AND AFFECTIVE TREATMENT WITHOUT PILLS. I don't know what my tomorrow holds for me.  I have dreams of being healed.  I wonder if the healing is within my own power and want to try.  I left the house for my sons brthday prty and forgot my meds and freaked out. I made it through but for the first 10 min. I was going to drive 30 miles back to get them. I don't know what to say to make you feel better but if your family thinks your great than you are. It is DOABLE you will do it. I don't know your situation, but I'm glad you replied to my post. Thank You.  Hellbent, just knowing that you feel better once the **** is out of your system makes it doable.  At first this medication was God sent.  I guess for the first year I felt great.  The first time I was prescribed the patch for pain and in 15 mins I was pain free, it was too strong for me so the dr. put me on oxy.  This medicine works but at times I feel so cloudy. and the chest pains are something I have been dealing with for the last 6mths off and on.  My husband is convinced it's the med. so I have to see because if it is I would trade this pain for the other.

[acowgirl]

I have had insurance for 12 years w/the same co. They went up to $12,000.00 no sh**. We applied for the ppo with this same co. I included medical history w/ the ap. I typed it out and went into the pres.meds. (they have to have that history on file anyway since they have been my carrier). I was declined because of med hist. they wont tell me  what part of my med hist. thats why i was wondering if it was the oxy.  They told me to mail a request for that info and they will send it to my dr. I would like to know why they wont disclose this info to me (the rejection)... they have referred me to there chip policy for those of us who have been turned down. Or to continue with the policy I have minus my family which is still over 400.00mnthly.

[OxyDout]

Have you been doctor hopping for meds?? if so that could definitely be the reason, the are starting to keep a very close watch on what doctors you see, how many you have seen, and in what time period, not to mention what they prescribe to you.  I hope you haven't done that because you could get in serious trouble.  But other then that, it makes no sense at all, who knows, its probably nothing.

[mrmichael67]

That is what I was thinking.  If you were doc hopping, then I could see them turning you down.

[acowgirl]

No Dr. hopping.  Just the fact that I have had the neck surgeries and chronic pain.  I really felt stupid after I wrote I didn't mean to whine.  It was a relief to read your answer regarding the chest pain.  I smoke and I guess that's it. I had my cholesterol checked and it came back really good so it's not my heart, I have gained wait due to stress and the fact that I stay so tired, I'm  not as active as I should be. I shuttle my kids, my mom, and grandparents around and thats it, I would love to rollerblade but #1 Ilive in the sticks and they don't do so well on asphalt and #2 my husband is skinny so I don't really have a work out partner and #3 I can't really work out cause of the pain I go thru afterwards.  I guess those are my major problems. I realize this forum is for people who deal with really trying to get clean, and I know my 2 pills a day doesn't really qualify me.  But I do have a sister I lost to crystal and ice.  She didn't die but she might as well. She chooses to be isolated from her family.  I also have a brother-in-law different sister, that is on meth really bad. I did alot of drugs in my early teens,to 20's but I decided to stop when I got married, mainly cause my husband is clean.  I really relate to the things you guys say, I am going to keep reading.

[hippy]

just saying hey, staying clean, working very hard.
i used to play semi pro basket ball but had to stop, when i was 36 because the strain was to hard on my knee's and back.
i was thinking of playing on sunday mornings on a wooden
court, the wood floor is easier on the knee's. the guy's who play are all in their fourties, so i think i can probley do it.
tho it is taking a chance, i don't want to injure myself now
that i am doing much better and have been pain free. knock on wood.
I hope everyone is doing good, it's always nice to come home from work and check out the site.

peace-----------------

[1fortheroad]

i cannot understand your insurance problem...i agree with the others that mentioned dr. hopping - i know that my insurance co. really keeps a close eye on that one.  if one of my docs hadn't told me he had received a list from the insurance company showing every dr and med prescribed from the past year, i would probably continued and then gotten busted.

anyhow, you should definitely see someone about the chest pains -that's nothing to mess around with.  is it pain or just really severe pressure?  sometimes, like when i'm in really big crowds or something, i get panic attacks.  i feel huge pressure in my chest, among other things and it is scary - at least i know what it is tho.

whether your addiction is to 2 pills a day or 20, there are still the same feelings involved i think.  you know you have a problem, and you've started recovery by posting here - good job:)  i was taking a ton of percs, vics and oxy for the past couple years.  i tried to quit and failed SO many times.  finally, i went to a clinic in florida (i live in boston) that prescribes buprenex.  that was in early april.  now i'm down to about 1 amp (i take it intramuscularly) a day, and i'm feeling pretty good.  buprenex has been a miracle medicine for me.  i haven't had any desire for pills nor have i had any withdrawal symptoms.  now i just have to give up the buprenex.  my doc tells me i should continue to use it as needed for the migraines which started me down the narcotic path in the first place.  i don't know what i'm going to do, but i'm not too worried about it right now.

WOW - guess i really felt like writing tonight!  sorry to run on and on...i really meant to just say welcome and all that.

gwh - sorry about not posting...i've either been lurking or just not around the past couple days.  it's been so hot (i love it!), so i've been laying low around the pool and stuff - lazy!  i hope you are ok, and i wish you HADN'T found the stash...did you tell your brother about that one?

[IrishRose]

gwh- am I ever glad to hear you are doing better!

J.B - Are you out there? Haven't seen your name up here in awhile, worried about you. You are sorely missed.

IR

[tex3]

Hi dlm and welcome! I had your exact feelings. Literally, I would walk from my bedroom to the kitchen and have to sit down. Thought I'd never make it back to the bed. Then I would cry like crazy because I felt like a worthless wreck. This was during my detox, three months ago. I seriously thought I'd never feel normal again. I do, though; actually better than normal because now I know what the alternative is. I looked this **** in the eye and I won. But it was the hardest thing I've ever done, and my life ain't been easy. Bottom line, you will get your energy, motivation, and zest for life back. I swear to that. But you have to get distance between you and the drugs. Once the detox is done you still have to face the other ****, but that too will pass.

GWH, you're a great person who is very honest with yourself and others. I really think you feel like **** and worthless and hopeless because you're still taking pills. Again, you have to get distance from them, and not just a few days. You can do this. Quit and do it today. Go through the hell and don't pick up another drug. Remind yourself that you are young and if you don't like being clean, hey you can always start taking them again later - it's not forever, right? If you want to be an active addict later, you can make that choice. But first try being clean. Maybe that will help you get through each day. It did me. I couldn't stand the thought of never having another pill, so I told myself I could pick it up again after I'd given sobriety an honest shot. I know many will disagree and probably lash me for this, but it worked for me. It was all that one day at a time stuff. And days turned into weeks turned into months and now I am free. Point is, quitting forever was too much of a committment and I was scared of it. Even though I knew deep down I was really doing just that, when the cravings got too bad or the WD was too hellish, I reminded myself of all that. And it got me where I am now. But you have to promise yourself an honest shot at getting clean, at rollerblading through life, before you decide to chunk it all for another pill. I only say this because you've struggled so hard and I want to see you make it so bad. Commit to a few weeks and see where it leads you, if you can't do it any other way. I could never taper personally; I'd tear the house apart searching. So maybe try committing to being clean for a certain timeframe? Hang in there buddy; you've been an inspiration to many and in my book, you're worth a million, flaws and all.
tracy

[fishman59]

sorry everyone but I have to say something--- Dr.Steve,It would be alot better to me and probably alot of other people (fellow human beings) if you answered peoples questions using your own words and education and not answers from a script!! I can assure you that I would NOT sue you for an honest answer. I have been looking over some of the questions people have been asking and they seem extremely scripted. Please get human!

[tex3]

JR, are you around? If so, please write to me. You can send to my reg email if you want, ***@****.

[tex3]

Guys - I found this post down in the May stuff, but dated today, so thought I'd bring it up so y'all can offer your combined infinite wisdom....here it is, copied and pasted:

FROM RORO:
Hi everyone, I have been reading your comments for the last few days and i am ready to get off the vicoprofen. I take 25 - 30 pills a day and have tried to taper but it didnt work. Funny thing is everytime i called the doctor for a refill whether it be 2 days late or 5 he would always refill so i was never out. i have 2 kids and have to do this for them and me as well. I syopped taking them yester evening 8pm and am already starting with the cramping and diarreah. i can use any and all comments on how i can get through this. Help needed here. Is there anything i can take or do to ease the agony i will be going through for the next week???? Helpppp

[jonathan44]

hello everyone, i read this site the other day and found that as usual, as a resource, fellow addicts are without equal in their knowledge, sincerity and concern.  therefore i would like to see if anyone can help with my present situation.  i have been a heroin addict for a couple years, within the last year i have been in and out of methadone programs, the last one ending about three weeks ago.  i have just obtained a five day course of buprenex and would like to know if i have gotten far enough away from the methadone to start the bup without the meth withdrawal being brought on as i have heard about on this site (not good)  so, can i take the bup now or should i wait longer for the meth to clear out of my system.  any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

[tex3]

Hi and welcome. I've never taken methadone but do understand the half-life is pretty long. Was your last dose three weeks ago? Are you already detoxed? If so, is the bup for pain? I took bup for many months. When I was in rehab the first time, a guy with me went straight from heroin to bup and did great. For me bup was a wonder drug. Post your dose and everything else and what the bup is for. Angst, who posts here a lot, is on meth and can probably help. Best of luck and I'm sure you will get more informed answers!
tracy

[jonathan44]

thanks for the response, i guess i left out the pertinant fact that i switched three weeks ago from methadone to heroin and began decreasing my intake.  my last meth dose was 60 mgs, when i resumed heroin i started at around eight bags a day and by now, three weeks later i am at about 3 or 4 bags a day.  ive heard so many horror stories about bup bringing on crazy  withdrawals from meth that im trying to distance myself from the meth.  i just dont know if im far enough away to start my bup course and deal with what ive heard is a good detox..  p.s. the only other way ive ever detoxed is cold turkey off 15-20 bags a day, no fun, three times, so unfortunately at this stage in life im looking for a little help from the bup just to get over the first three days. this is the plan, if the meth doesnt mess it up.  again, thank you tracy and anyone else. peace, love and steel toes.

[mrmichael67]

You are far enough away from the methadone.  Go about 12 hours between your last dose of heroin and first dose of buprenorphine and you should be fine.

[dlm]

Thank you SOOO much for your encouragement.  At this point, it's really hard to believe that I'll ever feel normal again.  I know that at sometime in my life I was a naturally happy person, and I just SO badly want to find that person again.  It seems impossible, but what's more impossible is living a "fake" happiness for the rest of my life.  I'm on day 3 of detox, and I'm doin all right I think.  I actually feel a little better than I did yesterday so maybe things will eventually look up.  I still have a hard time figuring out how something like a little pill got the best of me!!  Anyway, thanks so much for your response and keep in touch please!  Thanks, Diana

[hellbent]

Fish: Kinda late to get on old Dr. Steve. He hasn't been here for quite awhile. I do agree that his responses were fairly worthless, but he is (I assume), a practicing physician, and it was pretty cool that he took time pro bono to be here at all. I think that most addicts know far more than most doctors about narcotic addiction anyway, though doing your own research via real medical sources, and cross checking information, is the best way to go.

MrMicheal: Not to start an argument, but "high doses" of opiates is a relative thing. To a new user, 2-3 vikes will cause repiratory depression. Since opiate addicts and pain patients alike will almost invariably escalate their usage (otherwise why even make Oxycontin), the primary symptoms of opiate abuse can usually be counted on to manifest perpetually in most patients.

GWH: Yes, weight gain is a very regular symptom of opiate use. I am not exactly sure of all the reasons, but digestion is slowed way down. Is there anyone who was on them for long periods of time who didn't gain weight? In a few years I went from 180 to 220, and I was excercising some of the time. Just think Elvis.

[1fortheroad]

hi jonathan - i'm not sure how long you've been off meth still, but if it's been three weeks, you should be thru the detox no?

i take buprenex as well, and it has been a lifesaver for me.  i took it once after not taking percs/oxy for over 24 hours...it still wasn't enough time and i got sick as a dog.  if you've been taking drugs with a long half life, you should not take bup until you are in withdrawal.  i know it's hard to go thru that when you know relief is right there, but the next time i took it, i made sure i was sweating/chills, the runs, and the whole nine yards.  this is just my experience - it's probably different for everyone.  the clinic i went to said to make sure i was in w/d and had put in at least 24 hours after last opiate.  i was really just at the very beginning of w/d, and i guess there was still just too much meds left in my system.

you might want to ask your doc about post withdrawal syndrome...it's the depression and general crappiness SOME feel after detox.  SOME (i'm emphasising SOME so no one jumps on my case) experience this for even months after detox, which is why so many relapse. i am still taking a small amount of bup even 3 months after detoxing...some may think it's terrible, but it's better than taking 20 pills a day.  my doc thinks it makes sense for me to continue because i experience post withdrawal syndrome plus i suffer from severe migraines.  the bup really helps with that as well, and i may very well use it as needed until they find a cure for headaches.  i have found that less is better with bup anyhow - if you take more of it than you should, it doesn't do anything for you...a little goes a long way.  

anyhow, i thought i'd answer your post because buprenex is something i now know a lot about...keep posting - there are many here, including me, who want to help you thru this...

[1fortheroad]

hi there - maybe it was just me, but i had the same type of comments about dr. steve awhile ago, and i had my ass kicked around the block a couple times.  he's not around anymore, so you won't see anymore lame comments from him.  just thought i'd mention it because the lashing i got still stings.  the fellow addicts here give FAR better advice anyhow...trust me on that one.

[GOD]

I just have to PREFACE this question with a statement...  I'm NOT one of those people asking about a drug because I'm "Experimenting"-- Hopefully most of you people know that I was an Ultram Junkie, and FORMER Vodka consumer...(no longer a "Practicing" Alkie thanks to that AA!!!)

Anyway-- Here Goes:

I have 2 friends that LIVE for Vicodin... They seem to use it almost like speed and seem really UP after big doses... (even though they do exhibit the Dialated pupils, they don't seem "slowed down" like someone on Oxycontin for example.)

I've personally never tried Vicodin, and don't care to either (seems like it's one of the most addictive sons-o-******* out there)--

But-- Why the "Upper" effect? I thought that Vicodin was just another form of Oxy or Hydrocodone Mixed with Tylenol. Is there an added stimulant that I'm not aware of? OR are these two friends of mine probably mixing in another drug that I'm not aware of?

Any input is welcome!

Thanks,
Jess

[roro]

Hi everyone, Help needed here.  I need to know how some of you have gotten through the agony of the withdrawals?  I was doing 32 vicoprophen a day and i decided this was it.  I did 7 yesterday to sleep a little but the cramps are the worst and my legs hurt never mind the vomiting....  Any suggestions are welcomed i really want to do this....

[OxyDout]

It could be a "party mix" .......... which would mean cocaine after you pop the pills.  However, my brother used to get the same way, he would pop a few and become a cleaning machine, seriously, I think when your so dead and starting to hurt, and then you get a couple of pills, its a 180, you know? your dying one second, then you get these pills in your system and your body loves it, just like other people on the forum used to say it was "fake energy".  You get so happy to have drugs, you can do anything......... make sense....

[OxyDout]

Groovy,

I had the worst panick attack yesterday, it was all because of money!! I started to think about all the money I have wasted and started to get scared, it was the worst feeling.  Anyway, I haven't taken anything in 24 hours, well, I have a half of a vicodin, which was useless.  How are you doing? I think I'm supposed to be going to richardsons tonight.  I never got to do anything last weekend, it was too busy there, we just got ice cream.  Well, I hope all is well, write back when you get a chance.

gwh

[OxyDout]

god help me, i just got my commission and regular pay check and not only is it already spent because of money I owe for "my guy" my car, etc.... but I don't have enough, its all because of the drugs, I can't believe this, I'm in the hole because of drugs. If I didn't do that, I could have easily put 500 in the bank, talk about panick attacks, jesus, anyway, I'm sorry guys, I guess I need to hear from someone, anyone, I get a little anxious when it comes to money.

god help me,

GWH

[OxyDout]

anyone out there.......... beuller........ beuller

Seriously, I"m having the worst panick attacks, can anyone relate........ this whole money thing is killing me....... $600 in taxes taken from my check, give me a break!!!

[OxyDout]

anyone out there.......... beuller........ beuller

Seriously, I"m having the worst panick attacks, can anyone relate........ this whole money thing is killing me....... $600 in taxes taken from my check, give me a break!!!

[1fortheroad]

i've spent a ton of $ too, so don't feel alone in that. i think it drives a lot of people to want to quit - i have credit card debt up the wazoo...i was lucky enough to conveniently buy a lot of it online...what a treat that was.  well, at least it gives you an incentive right?  i always found the $ to buy them, but i always found i was a little short when it came to something like the phone bill...we all have our priorities right?  quit, quit, quit QUIT!  you can do it, you can do it you can do it!!!  what else can i say dude?  i'm rooting for you...you know it can be done - you've done it before.  just keep thinking about your portfolio.  good luck!  go rollerblading!!

[OxyDout]

thank you, that took some of the pressure off, maybe I should go rollerblading, or maybe I shoot hold up the local CVS and take as many oxycontin as I can......... lets see, rollerblading or theft, possible jail and a large drug habit,..............rollerblading, or TROUBLE, rollerblading or TROUBLE, well as easy as it looks, this has been the hardest decision of my life............ but i'm gonna do it the right way this time.

GWH

[tex3]

I wasn't too clear last night so I apologize. But your post could have been me a few months ago. You will feel happiness again. What I meant by "fake" is that I was so shy that when I took a job that forced me to be outgoing (reporter) I had to fake it, and then it just took over and I became very outgoing. Then I started the pills and things went downhill. For me, the further I got from my last pill, the happier I became. So I don't have to fake happiness at all, but I did have to fake, or force, myself to be outgoing again. Not for long as I now feel completely normal.
I know things feel hopeless now. I felt for weeks like I would never be happy again, would always be apathetic and almost suicidal. I think it's because your body is producing none of its natural endorphins or pleasure chemicals. You've stripped them because the opiates filled up those receptors and your own shut down (this is how my doc explained it to me, anyway). But in the coming weeks your body will start to produce them again and that misery will start to lift, almost melt away. It's not easy and it sucks, but it can be done. You have to tough it out, though, or you'll be right back where you are now.

Jessarpy - I was, as gwh put it, a cleaning machine, high as a kite, when on opiates. Either that or totally crashed. I can't explain it other than it was the euphoria. Often I'd go like crazy at work and then come home and crash. If I knew I had to be up all night for work, I'd take double the pills to get me through, almost like caffeine. Just my take...

[tex3]

I think you're okay on the bup. I used it a few times when I ran out of norco and was WDing bad. It totally took away the symptoms. After the bup you'll still have to deal with the mental stuff but as far as physical it's minimal. I also quit bup after months of use (for pain) and was fine, just kind of tired and depressed but nothing like after regular opiates. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
tracy

[tex3]

You've cut your dose enough that you're probably really going through WDs now. Are you planning to cold turkey it at home, or taper? If you can talk to your doctor and get a "cocktail" to detox it really helps. It includes a muscle relaxer, anti-anxiety, stomach meds, clonidine, and possibly a sleeping pill that's non-addictive (I took doxepin). This all helps tremendously because it basically masks your WD symptoms, although you still won't feel great and will spend the days in bed. If you can't do that, search here for the "recipe" which many use; it's vitamins and amino acids. I still take it and feel great. You're killing your kidneys with all the ibuprofen right now, so stear clear of anything with that in it. How are you doing right now? You'll get through this, but the mental stuff sucks too. Once you're through that, though, you'll feel like a new person. Your body has to produce its own endorphins again because the pills have taken over that role, so until that happens (a few weeks) you'll be depressed and lethargic and weepy, possibly. I was and thought it would always be that way. But it isn't, so have hope. Let us know how you are please. You'll find many caring people here.
tracy

[skipper]

gwh:
money (or lack of) just isn't worth a panic attack. this is easy
for me to say, 'cause i'm not the one having a panic attack!

there is a way through this. you've been in worse spots ('cause of drugs) than this!

the best thing you can do with all this is not forget the way you
feel now. next time an oxy starts talking to ya' about how just a
few won't hurt ya'...well try to remember how awful you feel
right now!

don't really know what else to say...."everybody pays their dime
to hear the band!" i can't even begin to tell you how many times
i've been through exactly what you're going through...and guess
what...this is just the tip of the iceburg!

even though you ****** up here, i'm still going to love and care
about you and there just isn't anthing you can do about it! so
get an angel on your shoulder
kip

[tex3]

One thing helped me through the darkest days, though it might sound trite. When I thought I couldn't take the hell anymore, I reminded myself that in a week, or month or whatever, that amount of time would have passed and I could either be a month older and still struggling with drugs because I gave in, and still be in a horrible place, or I could tough it out and I'd be a month older and be clean and through the worst of it. Now I'm three months older and I'm clean. If I would have caved during those early days, I'd be paying the price all over again and not reaping the benefits now. Make sense? You have to pay the price, one way or another, so best to get it the hell out of the way and move on. I reminded myself of that, all the time.

[Tessa]

I don't post much (very rarely), but I read everyone's posts everyday....That being said...  Tex3,I think you are a very strong and wonderful person.... If only I/we (all of us) could be as strong and determined as you....You are truly an inspiration! Keep posting!   Although I'm not clean yet, I feel the time is coming very soon for me, and your "words of wisdom" (as well as MANY others!) help tremendously.  Thanks ever-so-much for giving me hope!

[roro]

well here goes its getting much worse....  i cant stand the cramps and my head aches, cant sleep i feel like **** but i am gonna stick with this pain.  I am holding onto the thought that it will get better..  I also got the shakes and twitches...  Dr. is on Vacation so iam doin this one alone cold turkey..  bye for now thanks for posting

[tex3]

Thanks Tessa, that really means a lot to me! I lurked here too even after I'd detoxed but before I was ready to post. How are you feeling? You'll know when the time is right. For me it wasn't even a conscious decision, or at least I didn't sit down and think about it. Just decided it was time and did it. But that was after months of hell when I destroyed my life. I guess all that built up and I knew the time had come. I had truly hit bottom. If I hadn't, I think it would be much more tempting to give in with the cravings come calling (someone here calls them "dragon whispers" - great name). Anyway thank you; you don't know how much that means to me.

Roro - you're in full WD by now, I bet. You will feel shitty for a few days. Once you make it to Day 3, the worst is probably past (unless using something with a long half-life like methadone). I know it's easy from here to say to deal for three days, but from where you are you're in misery. I hate to think of anyone suffering with that. It sucks so bad. I remember staring at the clock with my leg bouncing all over the place as the hours dragged by. Are you out of pills, so you can't taper or anything? Hang in there and I swear it'll get past. By the 4th you'll feel tons better and the WD should be past. You'll still have the lethargy and all that but not the WD itself. Are you taking the recipe? Immodium? Kava Kava? All those will help. Hang in there and keep posting.

[tex3]

Sorry I went back and read and saw you can't taper. I couldn't either. If this is your first time to detox, it's not as bad as it would be if you'd done it many times. My first time, I was home free in three days, four max. So if you've made it through today, you have tomorrow (which might be worst day) and then Sunday, and by Monday you will feel human. If it's really bad, you can go to the ER. I understand they see this a lot and can help. The thing to remember is that as crappy as opiate WD feels, it won't kill you or hurt you other than the crappy feelings. Not like Xanax or something like that, which can cause seizures when you wd if you do it too fast. But that said, if you have xanax or can get it (or something in that class) it really does help get through the WD, as long as you only use it for these few days. I took phenobarb, which helped tremendously. A muscle relaxant will greatly reduce the leg aches and constant shaking. That comes from deep muscle aches. If you can't get stomach meds, take Immodium regularly. How are you right now? Let us know. tracy

[roro]

hanging in there.  I hope it dont get worse...  this is bad....  thanks for posting

[hippy]

just wanted to let you know i was shooting up  a few prayers for ya, i to have been clean like tex3 for 3 months.
take it a hour at a time , watch a a few good movies or get a good book,  take some hot baths. the days will go by  quickly

peace!!!!!!!!!!!

[tex3]

Congratulations! You sound good, glad to know you're feeling it too. Guess we did this at the same time, huh? Seem to remember that but my memory is kind of foggy from that period, haha.

Roro, stick it out, you're in the worst and will soon see the light. Don't slip once you've gotten this far, and keep posting. If you need to chat email me at ***@****

[dlm]

I completely understand!!  The cramps are the absolute worst!  I finally went to Kaiser on Tuesday, this being my fourth day of detox (what fun) and they gave me clonodine and valium for the withdrawal symptoms, immodium (prescription strength) for the diarreah, and bentyl for the stomach cramps.  I'm doin all right I suppose, just take it one day at a time.  You CAN do this, even though it doesn't feel like it right now.  First, get through the hell week of withdrawals, (if you don't plan on doing it medically) then deal with the mental part of it.  When you take vicodin for periods of time (like me) your bodies naturally ability to induce pleasure shuts down because the vicodin is doing it for you.  It takes a little while for it to come back, BUT IT WILL!!  That's what I keep telling myself.  My suggestion is to tell your doc that you want off, and need some medicinal help to do it.  It will take away the "creepy crawly" feeling, and you won't feel the withdrawals.  Just mentally, but you can do it!!  Good luck, and if you want to talk, email me at ***@****

[roro]

Thanks for posting everyone it is 3am and i am still awake.  I havent taken anything and am not planning too.  I am gonna do this no matter what....

[roro]

7:30 am and wantto crawl out of my skin...my kids will wake soon and think oh another day mommy is in bed.....if the stomache thing would just go away now i know i can handle the rest

[roro]

I have a quick question for you ..  I noticed in one of your posts you said you used to have sex with your husband so you can go out and buy more pills...  Been there done that...  My question is when you got pregnant did you still use and did it affect the pregnancy or baby after it was born???  That was my main reason for not having any more kis and I am 35 now and want more.....

[angst]

My body reacted the same way with dilaudid and various narcotics.
If I only shot 2mg of dilaudid, I had energy to clean my house and then shoot another 2mg, it just gave me energy.  If I shot 4 to 6mg, I was good for nothing except nodding.  I did not like that.  I liked using enough to give me the boost.  I still got the initial buzz when shooting, where you feel it from your feet to your head.  It cost me more money than I dare count.  It also cost me spiritually, my family, my career, and my daughter's respect.  Jessesarpy, most people who take Lortabs will tell you the same, they got energy from them, unless they took too much.
Good to talk to you.  Are you doing alright?

[angst]

Jonathan, if you have been off methadone for 3 weeks and using heroin instead, you can probably start the buprenex.  I agree with Mr. Michael on that.  I am methadone, the half life is 36 hours.  So if you have been off for 3 weeks, the methadone is gone.  Good Luck

[tex3]

DLM, glad to see you're feeling somewhat better. Those meds really help. If you can get through the detox you can really start recovery, and it sounds like you're there. Congratulations!

The suggestions about reading a book or watching a movie is a big help, along with the baths. I was withdrawing badly one time and the hours were much easier when I could distract myself, for awhile, by reading. It beats watching the clock. God, that sucks.

Roro, I didn't use when I was pregnant. My youngest is almost six and until three years ago, I only used when I got my hands on some, never every day. Once I started every day things got really bad. I did take some vics when pregnant for migraines, but that was prescribed and I was careful with it. My doctor said it was safer than Advil. I do feel tremendous guilt that for the first years of my baby's life, I was high most of the time and it shows. I hate that, so much. One of my biggest regrets, and I have many. But my comment was more that I'd do anything to get hubby in a good mood so he wouldn't hassle me about getting my pills. Sick, huh? Now we're working on a healthy relationship. Can't say it's perfect as it's far from that, but at least it's honest now and I'm not doing anything I'm ashamed of.
I hope you're feeling better and congratulations on making it this far. You've been really strong. I know it's hard; could be the hardest thing you ever do. But afterward you'll already have been through one of the toughest battles ever, and the mental stuff, though hard, is easier knowing you made it through that. I hope you're feeling better today. Sorry it took my so long; I was out all day yesterday and had the computer off until now as it's been storming bad. Keep your chin up and don't feel bad to seek help from a doctor. But always remember how you feel at this moment; keep it hidden inside somewhere to bring out when you get too tempted. It works for me when the cravings hit; I never want that hell again. No pill or momentary pleasure is worth it. Hang in there.

[roro]

Tex, I really look forward to talking to you , you really know what and how to say it....

[tex3]

You are sweet and I appreciate your comments so much. I'm glad you're getting relief. One thing that made me feel so guilty was that I spent sooo much time in bed. My oldest daughter even commented once that I'd be in bed sick all weekend because I always was. Not mean, just a fact. So to be up and normal means a lot to me. I say this so you'll know that once this is all past your kids WILL notice the change and be pleased by it. Mine says now she forgets I have a disease (to her the endo caused all this) because I'm not in bed anymore.
But also know that it takes weeks, maybe months to be past all the physical stuff. Not the detox, certainly, but you could face (I did) lethargy, depression, hopelessness, apathy. I thought everyone would be better off without me and my problems. I had zero hope for the future. It's hard to remember now how bad it was, even though it was only two months ago.
Taking the recipe really helped with all that. The l-tyrosone greatly improved my mood; the vitamins helped my energy. Gradually the fog and cloud lifted. Some days were great, even early on. I laughed again. Others I would cry nonstop. But it all passes and you even out. Just mentioned this so if it does happen to you, you can say that this, too, shall pass. Hope you're having a great night and the stomach isn't too bad. Soup helps a lot; chicken broth saved my life and gave me some energy back by replacing fluids. Stay tough and let me know how you are please.
tracy

[GOD]

Hey there!

Yes, I'm Doing O.K. -- THanks for asking!

It's been quite a weekend - Helping my Aunt move to a lakehouse here (Near where I live). Man, she has about enough furniture to furnish 3-4 houses... I jokingly told her that she'd need to buy the vacant lot next to hers to build a "Guest house" for storage... She smiled and said, "That's a good idea!"-- Oh ****, what've I gotten into here?!

O.K. better change the subject to relevant drug topic matter here:

It's been a couple of weeks without any drugs (Besides Ibuprofen) in my system. Yes, I still have Neuropathic pain that is a major *****, but I'm living with it like someone 250 years ago would have to handle it... With pretty much nothing in the way of drugs! (well, actually, they would have probably drank alcohol to get rid of SOME symtoms-- BUT that's what got me here, and did the nerve damage, so that's pretty much out of the question). Anyway, I had a great way tjo get my Ultram online for RELATIVELY cheap prices [$400.00 for 500 pills] but that just got out of hand... I mean, I just ended up taking 30-50 per day! I've gotta' say that I miss it, though. I was "Happy" and quite buzzed 24-7. I'm just learning how to live life with the little aches and pains that all the "Normal" people out there have been doing forever....

Oh well, that's MY rant!
How you feeling, Ava?

Bye,
Jess

[angst]

Hey Jesse,  I am doing well.  I am tired.  I've been on the graveyard shift at a risky located convience store.  All that may change tomorrow with my interview at the shipyard, FINALLY.
I hope I get into the apprenticeship program.  It is back braking at these stores.  I work at about 3 of them.  I work hard, and they tell me I'm "intelligent".  They love to have me around, except they pay less than a door to door vacuum salesman on commission.

I'm still on methadone.  I did drop 10mg last week.  With that and my xanax, I do okay.  I hope I do not start craving again.  I do not want to go back up on the methadone.  It is difficult dealing with cravings.  Money is a trigger for me.  I think about how easy I could be a dilaudid addict right now.  I miss the rush.  I am not romancing my old drug of choice.  I know I can never shoot another pill.  It would kill me.  I would not stop.  Our disease is progressive, dormant or active.  I have to remind myself of all the good things life has to offer if I stay clean and honest with myself.

Thanks for asking, Jesse.  We'll make it - one day at a time. Ava

[tex3]

I'm a reader too, could do it all day if they let me. The depression is bad, I know, but it will pass. I don't have the exact doses of the recipe but it is on one of the recent threads here. I take a a strong multi-vitamin and L-Tyrosone (1,000 mgs/day). Apparently if you add 5htp and some other things, it's even better.
This did wonders for lifting my depression. Apparently it helps your neurotransmitters repair faster. But also remember it will just take some time. After the depression lifts, you might feel lethargic or apathetic. And you still might have a lack of energy for a few weeks. But the more you do, the easier it will get. If you can exercise, do it. And give yourself time to heal. Pamper yourself.
I felt incredibly guilty that I was in bed so much, too. I couldn't walk from one room to the next without sitting down. Could barely move. But think of the gift you're giving them - you will be a much better mother when you're through all this, if you're anything like me. And that feels really good.
tracy

[dlm]

Hi there, your suggestions certainly are helpful.  Thankfully, reading is something I LOVE to do, and it definitely helps pass the time.  The hardest part of detox was the fact that my kids just COULD NOT understand why I could hardly crawl out of bed.  I felt Soooooooooo guilty!  Well, now the physical cravings are easier to deal with, but the depression is the worst.  It's hard to even think about actually DOING anything except NOTHING!!  But I've been forcing myself to take walks (something I rarely ever did) and my husband has been takin me out to eat and stuff to get my mind off things.  Anyway, what is this recipe everyone keeps talking about, do you know??  Hope all is well.