Let's start a new thread for a new day.

[trying]

How is everyone today?  I am doing okay today.  Let's start this thread on a positive note.  Yesterday's negativity really got to me and I think we can all use a fresh start.  I am having some major cravings today.  I am trying to stay busy and keep my mind off of it.  Thank god I'm at work and able to stay busy.  Of course, during my weakest hour my old dealer calls and says he has pills.  I have money and doing whatever it takes not to call.  I keep thinking, maybe just one night.  But I'm not giving in to temptations.

[GOD]

Way to go!
Keep on shooting those negative thoughts down... That's always the hardest thing to do. It's always the HARDEST when you HAVE money, and you HAVE the means to get what you want [the drug of your choice]....

Isn't it funny how when you NEED it, you don't have the money?

Keep that chin up!

[Tessa]

how long have you been clean?  congrats on not giving in to your temptations....can't say that i would be able to be as strong as you (i know i wouldn't)  Keep up the good work....and, it IS work, isn't it??

[trying]

I have been (almost clean) since June 28th.  I have slipped a few times, but picked myself right back up.  The guilt I felt was unbelievable and I don't want to feel that shame again.  I still think about it alot and struggle everyday to stay away.  It's hard when you do have money and a way of scoring.  

Jesse - How are you doing today?  

Tessa - And you?

Let's keep busy together!

[jonesing247]

Hey trying, i know what you mean about the shame of slipping. When i slipped I couldnt even sleep! On oxys! When you slipped though, did you suffer WD's again? Cause mine were way mild (after the inital crazy one of course). Also, what are you recovering from? (sorry, i cant remember who was doing what on this board!) thanks, mark.

[trying]

I am recovering from a 10 perc a day habit.  Some days more, some days less.  It has been about 5-6 years now and since last november I made a few attempts to stop.  I stopped in November for about a month and then again in February for about a month and now this time and it's almost a month.  I can honestly say that this time I feel stronger and more determined than before.  Sometimes it's so sad, something that makes me feel so good and at ease can screw my life up so bad.  I never did the doctor shopping or calling/writing my own scipts.  I bought them off the street, but that gets real expensive.  I want this to be over and behind me.  Can't just one day go by when it's not on my mind.  It sucks so bad.  It's like I lost someone I love.  I try to stay positive and keep busy.  I will say one thing, when I see my bank account growing, that makes me happy and gives me that extra push.  

Jonesing:  How are you today?  Where are you at right now in you struggle (and I say struggle because that's exactly what it is).  I just hope someday I can feel content again w/ out drugs.  When I did slip those few times the w/d weren't nearly as bad as the first 4 days.  My neck gets a little achey (achy) and I feel guilty and ashamed.  It's hard and everyday is a battle, but I will win and I won't stop trying until I win!!!!

[skipper]

hey everone:
a new thread/ a clean start....good idea! to all the new-comer i
have not welcomed...sorry...but please come in...always room for
just one more! my life has kind of been out of kilter and work is
driving me crazy...i don't seem to get the chance to post much any
more.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[hippy]

ive been off the vike's now for almost 4 months.
i am still taking thomas's receipe and i feel preety good these days. thanks to all the folks here on the fourm i was able with thier advice and encouragement to finlly get clean off the vike's after struggling by myself for about a year.
All the information i found here really helped me alot and
enabled me to get clean at home and not have to go to a detox or rehab. i know some people may need or want to go that route but i did not want to have to do it that way.
wecome to anyone who is new to the fourm, since i have been here ,we at the fourm have always let skipper wecome the new people, so sorry if any one felt left out.
we all have been through hell, some of us are still going through hell. there are also some of us who are stuck in hell
having to deal with chronic pain, in some cases for possibly life.

i rember reading one time , that someone once aske steve wonder
if he was blind all his life? his answer was " NOT YET''.
that to me is positive, and we need to always stay in the
positive.

hope everyone is making it through today.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alexandra_r]

Hi Everyone,

Trying--I think it's great to start off on a fresh, positive note today.  I agree, yesterday's negativity was pretty depressing.  I'm inspired that you have been clean a month.  I haven't quit using vicodin since I injured my back (about 14 months ago).  

I have a lot of pain in my back and the vicodin helps a lot with the pain.  I'm taking only 3 a day--I was down to 2 a day and then I tried taking tylenol 3's--these were worthless and I ended up taking 6 of them in one day and didn't much better from the w/d and they didn't really help my pain.

I wish there was some non-addictive medication that was as effective as opiates for reducing pain.  Before I started the w/d, I was taking about 6 pills a day.  At that time, I felt that they weren't really doing anything but keeping me addicted--I felt that I could control the pain with motrin.  I felt that I was taking the vicodin as much for the w/d symptoms as for the pain.  So, I figured my tolerance was so high from the vicodin that they probably weren't even helping the pain and that if I could get off them and suffer through the withdrawal then I would be at the same place in pain as I was before I quit using the vicodin.

I'm struggling--I got my prescription refilled.  I don't want to be addicted to anything anymore.  I don't like living in a constant cycle of pain, w/d, okay feeling, pain, w/d, okay feeling etc . . . on and on and on and on.

Does anyone know anything about rapid detox?  Has anyone done it?  Did it work?  Does insurance cover it?  Please let me know if anyone has had any experience with this.  

Thanks Everyone,
Alexandra

[Phaedrus]

Hey all...it's been quite a while since I posted but I stop by to read very often.

Now, I have a question:

I read in a thread below--which I can't seem to find again after a crash--where someone complained about feeling "itchy" while they were tapering.  How appropos!  I have been itching like crazy for the last few days.

I am tapering off of 12 months of Oxy, 80--100 mg/day.

The taper has been one up and down ordeal.

I'm now down to 40 mg/day.

Is this itching common?  If so, is there anything one can do about it?

I may as well ask another question while I'm at it.

Has anyone else successfully tapered off the Oxy's?  How low do I need to go before I can "stop" without major withdrawal.

Thanks

[hellbent]

Insurance might cover it, if you have an acute detox clause and IF you could convince them of the following:

-That you were going to check into a medical facillity regardless of whether or not you got the rapid detox.

AND

-It would be cheaper for THEM if you spent 2-3 days getting the rapid detox rather than spend 6-10 days in the facillity.

You live in the Bay Area, and when I was trying to get into opiate detox, I did some research and found Mills Peninsula in Burlingame. They had what seemed like a great opiate detox program. Unfortunately, even though I had a detox clause in my Blue Shield HMO plan, my goddamn medical group REFUSED me any facillity, saying that they had no providers in the area (Marin County). My PCP was of no help. He told me to drive myself into the Haight Ashbury clinic every day. When I told him that I was taking 800mgs oxycontin daily and was not going to be able to drive, he said it wasn't his prob. Goddamn son of a *****. If I think about it too much, I get the urge to committ bloody revenge!

Anyway, I'm ranting.

I'm not saying this to sound tough, but I kicked the equivalent of a 160 percoset a day habit AT HOME and ALONE and COLD. I also had a 15mg a day Klonopin habit to boot. I'm just another drug addict and have no willpower. My point is that it CAN BE DONE.

[hellbent]

There are some good sites out there dealing with the procedure. Do a search on yahoo or something.

My opinion is that it's kind of a sham. I corresponded with a few people who did it. They said to a person that they woke up depressed, utterly lethargic, and jonesing. They all went back out on opiates. The only one who supposedly made it, that I have heard of, is the old teenybopper Leif Garett.

[alexandra_r]

Thanks for the info--I know there is a lot of information on the Internet about it, but I was hoping that there might be someone on this forum who either had personal experience with it themselves or know of someone who did.

You have a point and I know, personally, that my w/d could be much worse than it is.  But, I have suffered a lot in my life and don't want to suffer any more.  You don't even know the half of it.  I walked in my house in 1991 to find my husband dead of a heroin overdose--even that wasn't enough to get me clean.  It took a year and losing everything (including almost my life) before I had the courage to change.  I ended up in a coma in San Francisco General and from there went right into a treatment program that offered no medical solutions--only AA and NA and lots of love and support.  I didn't have the luxury of weaning off those drugs then.  I did a cold turkey detox off a heroin and cocain habit that was costing me anywhere from 100 - 500 per day, depending on how much money I could steal, scam and cheat out of everyone PLUS methadone.  Part of the problem I am having with the whole w/d from methadone is that it brings back such ugly memories that I would just as soon forget . . .

[billyk]

Well it sounds like we were cut from the same cloth (as with every other addict) I was on Lortab 10 a day, bought from the street for 6 yrs. I went through a Methadone detox for 4 days and no major w/d symptoms. I had tried weening off, and a bad day would kick up and I would take a couple more than I meant to and before I knew it I was back at the same ole level. Tried cold turkey with the same results after the w/d were so bad I could'nt bear it. I have been completely clean for 14 days and the bad days have turned in to bad hours and soon I hope they willl be down to nothing. Stay the course, I am. Why would I want to go through the agony of quitting again. A person w/ a headachedoes not pick up a hammer and bang his head to get rid of the ache. I know for certain 1 is to many and a 1000 is not enough, so why start the fight over again!!!

[alexandra_r]

I meant withdrawal from vicodin--not methadone.  Thank god I am not living that nightmarish experience.  Vicodin w/d is bad enuff!

[hellbent]

Great story! Things got pretty hairy for you and you are defintely an inspiration.

Are you still in NA?

All I can say is be very careful. Our bodies don't forget opiates, and can change at the cellular level once they are re-introduced, no matter how long it has been, or how little we take. Stay scared.

[JES20]

Hi All,
I have been reading this forum since the first of June and this is my first post. I have been abusing opiod pain killers for about 4 years. I started with Ultram then on to OxyContin.I was eating 240mg a day of the Oxy.Then on May 28 I went to a rapid detox clinic.Let me tell you Alexandra it is no picnic.After the detox I had about 24 hours of violent vomiting and diarreha,I could not walk for about 3 days without my wifes help,severe leg cramping for about 7 days.Since the detox I have been suffering from chronic anxiety,depression,confusion and absolutely no interest in life.I have a Naltrexone Pellet implanted in my abdomine,so I can't use.I faithfully read this forum everyday it
helps knowing there others out there fighting the same thing.

                                 God Bless All,
                                          JES20

[hippy]

alexandra , hi there hope all is well, ive been clean off the vikes for 4 months, ive been taking thomas's receipe and it has worked great for me. any way the reason im writing its to answer your question regarding itching , you could try taking benadryl
it works great for irching. the only down side  is it make you very tired and it might be better to take when you go to bed at night. you can buy it over the counter as you probly know.
well good luck.

phaedrus regarding pain and taking something that is not a drug
but works. my aunt and uncle are like 80 years old and in severe pain and they told me about something they were taking for pain
they said it was a little pricey, now they don't spend money on nothing. so i was interested ,they knew i suffered a lot of pain
so they told my wife to tell me about it , it's a vitamine
called MSM a sulfer base compound, of course i figured it would be like all the other thing's i have tried over the years
whitch none of them ever worked , but i figured i i would give it a try. WELL TO MY SUPRISE IT WORKED AND WORKRD REAL GOOD
,I MUST SAY IT IS THE ONLY OVER THE COUNTER ITEM FOR PAIN THAT I HAVE EVER GOTTEN RESULTS FROM .

[hippy]

alexandra , hi there hope all is well, ive been clean off the vikes for 4 months, ive been taking thomas's receipe and it has worked great for me. any way the reason im writing its to answer your question regarding itching , you could try taking benadryl
it works great for irching. the only down side  is it make you very tired and it might be better to take when you go to bed at night. you can buy it over the counter as you probly know.
well good luck.

phaedrus regarding pain and taking something that is not a drug
but works. my aunt and uncle are like 80 years old and in severe pain and they told me about something they were taking for pain
they said it was a little pricey, now they don't spend money on nothing. so i was interested ,they knew i suffered a lot of pain
so they told my wife to tell me about it , it's a vitamine
called MSM a sulfer base compound, of course i figured it would be like all the other thing's i have tried over the years
whitch none of them ever worked , but i figured i i would give it a try. WELL TO MY SUPRISE IT WORKED AND WORKRD REAL GOOD
,I MUST SAY IT IS THE ONLY OVER THE COUNTER ITEM FOR PAIN THAT I HAVE EVER GOTTEN RESULTS FROM . peace

[alexandra_r]

You had those kind of withdrawal symptoms AFTER doing the rapid detox????????????  What the hell is it good for?  I thought if you did the rapid detox, then your body "slept" through all the withdrawals.  Now, I know that w/d symptoms are psychological as well as physical (I know this because in my dreams after I quit using heroin--like 4 years after--I would wake up drenched in sweat with chills and leg aches--just like withdrawals, BUT I WAS CLEAN!).  It truly sounds as though the hell you went through is comparable to a regular, hard-core, cold-turkey, kick you in your ass, withdrawal.  

But--I'm happy that you aren't using and I wish I didn't.  I also wish I didn't have pain in my back and while I'm at it, I wish I would win the lottery.  That's interesting about the naltrexone implant.  When I detoxed at the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic in San Francisco, they offered us that in pill form--this was in the late 80's early 90's--it does work.  I tested it and shot a bunch of heroin after I had been on the pills for awhile.  The problem is that I quit taking the pills because at that time, all I wanted was to get high.

I don't get high off the dose of vicodins I have taken for my back (except for maybe the first 2 days), but I definitely get a "lift" from them.  

However, after I got clean from junk, I really didn't want to be high--I was high on life, high on getting a second chance at things.  I honestly don't believe I would have wanted to do any opiates, until I injured my back.  And just because you are an ex-junkie doesn't mean that you should be in pain.

Good luck to you Jes--and thanks for passing on your story about rapid detox.  I think it sounds like a bullshit treatment anyway.

[hippy]

why dont you try the receipre, it really help alot with all those sympotoms you were describing

[jonesing247]

Hey Alex, I responded to one of your other questions last week, however I dont know if you ever got the answer because it was buried in one of those "comment" sub-sections. After kinda following your posts through the last weeks I have noticed a familiar pattern between you and myself. It seems that you have the utmost desire to kick your habit but at the end of the day there is not enough left in you proceed with it. I also had these grandoise plans to kick (even while in line at the pharmacy :) ), however I always had a backup, whether it be emergency pills or whatnot. I was petrified of the impending W/D's. Like you I also did copious amounts of coke some time ago and while it was excessive, it never had me the way these little pills do. I reaserched the rapid-detox (from what I hear, you sleep through the W/D followed by 72 hours of mild "flu-like" symptoms, and the biggest fault of it seems to be "risk-of-relapse" due to the realative ease of the kick), and slipped and slipped and slipped until I went to an addiction clinic and got Buprenex. That made my withdrawl relatively mild and in your case, it should also work on the pain. So maybe you should give that a go if its available to you. I guess this post could have easily been summed up in two words (try bup) but whatever, I like to ramble. Hope all are doing well, keeping strong and being there for each other. Mark.

[GOD]

Mya...
Since you're new here, I thought I'd re-post your question up here on top! Sometimes, things that get posted further down don't get looked at, so I hope this helps!

mya
(24-Jul-02)  . Day 1 Trying the weaning method to quit Vics & oc(does it really work). Can anybody give me the recipe Ive been reading about - Tyrosine (what is that?) B6 and a multi- to help me thru this hell I'm about to embark on.
I appriciate any feedback.

Response from Jess:
About the recipe-- there are many versions out here, but here are the most important things you will need:

L-Tyrosine
5-HTP
Immodium

Take these at about 2 to 3 times recommended doses for the first 3 days or so...

In MY opinion, the BEST thing for the "Anxiety" is a plant extract called KavaKava. You can get ALL these drugs at Wallgreens, Ecerts, or GNC...

I took 1000 Mgs 3 times per day for the first 3 days, and it REALLY helped. It had a relaxing effect, but on the downside, it is an effective laxative, so you really have to eat up the Immodium!

I'm sure more people will post their reccomendations!
Good luck,
Jess

[tex3]

Hi Jes and welcome! Congratulations on how far you've come, and hang in there. It gets easier some days, harder again on others, but overall this thing is doable.

Alexandra, I did a lot of research on the rapid detox, and spoke to my doctor about it. I think, and this is just my opinion, that some of those leftover feelings described could be from the naltrexone itself. My doctor said that even after the rapid detox, many people still need some meds to get through the next week, even if it's muted. He prescribed phenobarb for this. He actually did a modified rapid, wherein the patient is not put under general anethesia but is sedated enough to sleep. It takes 12-24 hours. If you experience any discomfort, he sedates you more. It is much less expensive (under $1,000) and can be done in your home, which is a big plus. Unfortunately at the time I didn't have even that much money, so I had to do it the old fashioned way. Anyway after this he will give you the pheno for a few days if you still have lingering symptoms. But most of the drugs are out of your system after the initial detox, because the naltrexone pulls them out quickly. If you do a rapid detox but still have some opiates left in your system, and then get on naltrexone for maintenance to keep you from using again, it makes sense that you'll still feel crappy. Just a thought. Email me if you want and I'll give you more info from my doctor.
Also, the buprenex helped me tremendously with pain, and I never had a problem with it. Due to the chemistry of the drug, if you take higher doses it actually loses effectiveness, so the temptation to abuse it is gone. Plus, for most people there is very little if any "high" produced. I certainly never felt one. I hope you're feeling better today. Hang in there.
tracy

[trying]

Hello Everyone: Today is a much better day than yesterday. Last night was so hard. Another person I know called and asked if I wanted and OC80 for 50 dollars. I live in the North East so 50 dollars for an OC80 is really cheap. I said no thanks. I felt so ******* good after that. I had the biggest smile on my face and felt really good about myself. Today is a good day. I feel happy and somewhat content. I am still thinking about pills, but that's going to happen. It hasn't been that long. This weekend will be hard though. The weekends always are. How is everyone doing today?

[alexandra_r]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your post.  Is buprenex the same thing as ultram?  Are you on in constantly and do you feel any withdrawals when you go off of it?  The thing I really hate about using opiates is that when I feel I may not need them for pain then I need them to feel "normal."  I just can't stand the idea of living my life addicted to something.  It takes up too much of my head.  Like now--tapering is taking up more of my head than when I was using 6 - 8 vicodins per day--because I am constantly evaluating how bad my pain is, am I experiencing withdrawal, etc?  It is like a rollercoaster and I really want off.  However, I am weak when it comes to pain and I just hate suffering so much . . .

[tex3]

Hi Alex. Hope you're feeling better today. I'm about to sign off myself. I came down with sudden, severe pain in my side/back and think I either have a kidney stone or infection. The pain is racking me. I've never had either, but my sister had a stone and says it sounds the same. Just what I need, as I have no insurance and it really hurts. Anyway didn't mean to go on about me, just sending you good thoughts and hope you feel better. tracy

[tex3]

Oh, by the way, Ultram and bup are two completely different drugs. Ultram is a painkiller but is supposed to be non-narcotic (although many people have problems with it). Bup is a partial opiate agonist/antagonist.

[1fortheroad]

if you decide to go the bup route, keep in mind that it is an opiate and it is addicting.  in this country, they keep saying that it is not addicting, etc etc, however, in europe and other countries where it's been used by addicts for a much longer time, it has been found to be very addicting for some.  i personally have found it just as addicting as anything else i've ever taken, and the withdrawals are as intense as from vicodin.